Just look at all those Conservative Dinosaur Toys(tm).
Dragging tails, mud-green colors, and do those sauropods have elephant feet? Do I spy a Brontosaurus (and is it, likely, draped in a flag)?

Oh, when will the “Values Voters” start waving around toys of proto-feathered theropods, properly-named Apatosaurus, paleolithic mammals or Microraptor with appropriate numbers of wings?(1)

What kind of “Values” can someone have if they don’t value SCIENCE? Eh? EHHHH?

(1) Which is not at all to undermine Fred’s point, but if I don’t try and get a LOL or two out of this, I’m going to be a severely cranky Six. I couldn’t even finish that slideshow (I am at work).

(2) First.

Just look at all those Conservative Dinosaur Toys(tm).
Dragging tails, mud-green colors, and do those sauropods have elephant feet? Do I spy a Brontosaurus (and is it, likely, draped in a flag)?

Oh, when will the “Values Voters” start waving around toys of proto-feathered theropods, properly-named Apatosaurus, paleolithic mammals or Microraptor with appropriate numbers of wings?(1)

What kind of “Values” can someone have if they don’t value SCIENCE? Eh? EHHHH?

(1) Which is not at all to undermine Fred’s point, but if I don’t try and get a LOL or two out of this, I’m going to be a severely cranky Six. I couldn’t even finish that slideshow (I am at work).

(2) First.

Creationism needs to work a lot harder on its booth babes.

Creationism needs to work a lot harder on its booth babes.

What kind of “Values” can someone have if they don’t value SCIENCE? Eh? EHHHH?

Well, nearly every time I see the world ‘values’ in connection to politics, it never seems to contain what I value, so this is par for the course. 

I vote for candidates who say they value what I value.  It just so happens that I value civil liberties, social justice, making sure everyone has their basic needs met and SCIENCE! (and education in general, but science pays my rent, too).  Most of what these ‘Values Voters’ value is either a non-starter or something I want to oppose. 

What kind of “Values” can someone have if they don’t value SCIENCE? Eh? EHHHH?

Well, nearly every time I see the world ‘values’ in connection to politics, it never seems to contain what I value, so this is par for the course. 

I vote for candidates who say they value what I value.  It just so happens that I value civil liberties, social justice, making sure everyone has their basic needs met and SCIENCE! (and education in general, but science pays my rent, too).  Most of what these ‘Values Voters’ value is either a non-starter or something I want to oppose. 

At last, Slacktivist covers a subject that I know something about!  That is not Brontosaurus/Apatosaurus, but a model supposedly representing Brachiosaurus, but based on the East African species “Brachiosaurus” brancai, which in fact belongs to its own genus Giraffatitan.  (It’s also a pretty poor model, but that’s another story.)  For the full story, see http://svpow.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/brachiosaurus-brancai-is-not-brachiosaurus/

At last, Slacktivist covers a subject that I know something about!  That is not Brontosaurus/Apatosaurus, but a model supposedly representing Brachiosaurus, but based on the East African species “Brachiosaurus” brancai, which in fact belongs to its own genus Giraffatitan.  (It’s also a pretty poor model, but that’s another story.)  For the full story, see http://svpow.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/brachiosaurus-brancai-is-not-brachiosaurus/

Did this post vanish for a couple of minutes or is it just my crappy connection?

Did this post vanish for a couple of minutes or is it just my crappy connection?

Ooh, neat!
Thanks. :3

Ooh, neat!
Thanks. :3

It just so happens that I value civil liberties, social justice, making
sure everyone has their basic needs met and SCIENCE! (and education in
general, but science pays my rent, too).

I agree with most of that, but I don’t think I want a government that values SCIENCE! Non-capslock science I appreciate, but when elected officials start laughing maniacally and ranting about showing them, showing them all!* it’s not a good sign.

*They laughed at me! They called me mad!

It just so happens that I value civil liberties, social justice, making
sure everyone has their basic needs met and SCIENCE! (and education in
general, but science pays my rent, too).

I agree with most of that, but I don’t think I want a government that values SCIENCE! Non-capslock science I appreciate, but when elected officials start laughing maniacally and ranting about showing them, showing them all!* it’s not a good sign.

*They laughed at me! They called me mad!

http://www.theonion.com/video/no-values-voters-looking-to-support-most-evil-cand,14250/

http://www.theonion.com/video/no-values-voters-looking-to-support-most-evil-cand,14250/

Fair enough.  There is an important line between proper enthusiasm for a fun and fascinating field of human endeavor and maniacal laughter while standing outside during a lightning storm. 

Fair enough.  There is an important line between proper enthusiasm for a fun and fascinating field of human endeavor and maniacal laughter while standing outside during a lightning storm. 

A bit of a tangent here, but I wanted to share:

I am not an Evangelical, and in my part of the country I rarely have occasion to run into any of them.  For that, I thank this blog for elucidating me on the mentality behind what I would normally consider crazy, since the few times when I do have occasion to lock horns with a “Value Voter” type of Evangelical, I am better prepared to do so.  

An example of this happened yesterday, when a friend of mine reposted an image meme on his Facebook page, illustrating all the types of “traditional marriage” described in the Bible, none of which would be understood as being “good” to a modern set of values, done to contrast with how people who argue that gay marriage undermines the traditional institution.  Unfortunately, said friend has another friend who considers gay marriage an abomination to The Lord, and advises me to check my history because this country was founded on Christian Values.  

So much of what I learned from this blog applied.  I saw her sense of “rights for me but not for three”, the idea that she is entitled to force her values onto others, and anyone rejecting those values is an attack on her rights to enforce them.  I saw the rampant denialism of a secular government, and the No True Christian fallacy leveled against those Christians who do not see gay marriage as abominable.  

So thank you again, Fred.  I was able to keep relatively calm, refute her point by point.  Not that it seemed to sway her opinion, unfortunately.

A bit of a tangent here, but I wanted to share:

I am not an Evangelical, and in my part of the country I rarely have occasion to run into any of them.  For that, I thank this blog for elucidating me on the mentality behind what I would normally consider crazy, since the few times when I do have occasion to lock horns with a “Value Voter” type of Evangelical, I am better prepared to do so.  

An example of this happened yesterday, when a friend of mine reposted an image meme on his Facebook page, illustrating all the types of “traditional marriage” described in the Bible, none of which would be understood as being “good” to a modern set of values, done to contrast with how people who argue that gay marriage undermines the traditional institution.  Unfortunately, said friend has another friend who considers gay marriage an abomination to The Lord, and advises me to check my history because this country was founded on Christian Values.  

So much of what I learned from this blog applied.  I saw her sense of “rights for me but not for three”, the idea that she is entitled to force her values onto others, and anyone rejecting those values is an attack on her rights to enforce them.  I saw the rampant denialism of a secular government, and the No True Christian fallacy leveled against those Christians who do not see gay marriage as abominable.  

So thank you again, Fred.  I was able to keep relatively calm, refute her point by point.  Not that it seemed to sway her opinion, unfortunately.

“Values Voter” culture and whatnot, in a word: ignorant.

“Values Voter” culture and whatnot, in a word: ignorant.

Fair enough. There is an important line between proper enthusiasm for a fun and fascinating field of human endeavor and maniacal laughter while standing outside during a lightning storm.

Aw, but standing outside during a lightening storm, laughing manically is so much fun.  

Mad, sexy, science.  ^_____^

Fair enough. There is an important line between proper enthusiasm for a fun and fascinating field of human endeavor and maniacal laughter while standing outside during a lightning storm.

Aw, but standing outside during a lightening storm, laughing manically is so much fun.  

Mad, sexy, science.  ^_____^

And because I’m a terrible person, here’s a Creationist song, it’s funny, quite a few secular things can give me a charge or sense of the Divine, but the most explicitly Christian “entertainment” generally makes me even more resolute in my Atheism. Autotune makes the Baby Jesus cry after all, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK_CengSV3Q&feature=player_embedded#!

And because I’m a terrible person, here’s a Creationist song, it’s funny, quite a few secular things can give me a charge or sense of the Divine, but the most explicitly Christian “entertainment” generally makes me even more resolute in my Atheism. Autotune makes the Baby Jesus cry after all, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK_CengSV3Q&feature=player_embedded#!

I agree with most of that, but I don’t think I want a government that values SCIENCE! Non-capslock science I appreciate, but when elected officials start laughing maniacally and ranting about showing them, showing them all!* it’s not a good sign. 

*They laughed at me! They called me mad!
What do you have against Redeemed Vapula?
Complete with more tantalizing hints, and his origin story.  Sort of.

And the world built up around him.

-

Absolutely nothing in the above will make sense to people not familiar with In Nomine.

In closing, it took me way too long to find those links.

I agree with most of that, but I don’t think I want a government that values SCIENCE! Non-capslock science I appreciate, but when elected officials start laughing maniacally and ranting about showing them, showing them all!* it’s not a good sign. 

*They laughed at me! They called me mad!
What do you have against Redeemed Vapula?
Complete with more tantalizing hints, and his origin story.  Sort of.

And the world built up around him.

-

Absolutely nothing in the above will make sense to people not familiar with In Nomine.

In closing, it took me way too long to find those links.

I take back everything I ever said about religion; this is amazing.  When they got to the rapping part, and orange guy did the “waka waka” record scratch gesture, it was like looking into the face of God himself.  If you edited this video to put the Moskau dancer in there, the entire cosmos would collapse into a singularity of awesome.

I take back everything I ever said about religion; this is amazing.  When they got to the rapping part, and orange guy did the “waka waka” record scratch gesture, it was like looking into the face of God himself.  If you edited this video to put the Moskau dancer in there, the entire cosmos would collapse into a singularity of awesome.

Non-capslock science I appreciate, but when elected officials start
laughing maniacally and ranting about showing them, showing them all!
it’s not a good sign.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Non-capslock science I appreciate, but when elected officials start
laughing maniacally and ranting about showing them, showing them all!
it’s not a good sign.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Actually, “she’s unattractive” isn’t any more of a reasoned political argument than “he’s fat.”

And the whole notion of “booth babes” needs to be drowned in a vat of boiling dragon urine (hattip to Ana Mardoll for that image).

Aw, but standing outside during a lightening storm, laughing manically is so much fun.

“If trouble were lightning, he’d be the one standing on top of a mountain in a thunderstorm, wearing copper armor, waving an iron pole, and shouting “All gods are bastards.”"

Actually, “she’s unattractive” isn’t any more of a reasoned political argument than “he’s fat.”

And the whole notion of “booth babes” needs to be drowned in a vat of boiling dragon urine (hattip to Ana Mardoll for that image).

Aw, but standing outside during a lightening storm, laughing manically is so much fun.

“If trouble were lightning, he’d be the one standing on top of a mountain in a thunderstorm, wearing copper armor, waving an iron pole, and shouting “All gods are bastards.”"

Wow, I’d almost forgotten Moe’s stuff. He had good ideas.

Those choir attunements, especially, kick ass.

Wow, I’d almost forgotten Moe’s stuff. He had good ideas.

Those choir attunements, especially, kick ass.

Is anyone else getting an ad on the page for a book touting to explain how “Liberalism destroys nations”?  Because I am half-tempted to read it just to figure out what the author finds objectionable so I know just what buttons to push… 

Is anyone else getting an ad on the page for a book touting to explain how “Liberalism destroys nations”?  Because I am half-tempted to read it just to figure out what the author finds objectionable so I know just what buttons to push… 

Without having read it, I can confidently predict that there is absolutely nothing that you will find in that book that you couldn’t get — for free — by listening to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, or an old Glenn Beck monologue.

Without having read it, I can confidently predict that there is absolutely nothing that you will find in that book that you couldn’t get — for free — by listening to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, or an old Glenn Beck monologue.

You’re absolutely right. “He’s sooooo fat” comprised 95% of Slate.com’s coverage of Chris Christie’s speculative campaign for President.

You’re absolutely right. “He’s sooooo fat” comprised 95% of Slate.com’s coverage of Chris Christie’s speculative campaign for President.

I found it interesting that the relationship education booth included a photo of an interracial couple.  Back when I was a teenager/young adult (sometime in the Pleistocene, I’ll admit), you would have gotten rants against miscegenation from most southern Christians, and even from the liberals you would have heard (I _did_ hear) strong advice against interracial marriage.
So the hope is out there somewhere.

I found it interesting that the relationship education booth included a photo of an interracial couple.  Back when I was a teenager/young adult (sometime in the Pleistocene, I’ll admit), you would have gotten rants against miscegenation from most southern Christians, and even from the liberals you would have heard (I _did_ hear) strong advice against interracial marriage.
So the hope is out there somewhere.

Without having read it, I can confidently predict that there is absolutely nothing that you will find in that book that you couldn’t get — for free — by listening to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, or an old Glenn Beck monologue.

Yeah, but I get the feeling listening to them undiluted by filters of humor like The Daily Show would cause my brain to boil and leak out my nose.  At least with a book I can shield myself by pretending I am grading a paper, highlighting the errors, and writing a little note in the margin, “Bad, very bad, see me after class.”  

Not that Limbaugh, Hannity, or Beck do not write books, but the thought of picking one of their’s up at the store makes me feel dirty.  

Without having read it, I can confidently predict that there is absolutely nothing that you will find in that book that you couldn’t get — for free — by listening to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, or an old Glenn Beck monologue.

Yeah, but I get the feeling listening to them undiluted by filters of humor like The Daily Show would cause my brain to boil and leak out my nose.  At least with a book I can shield myself by pretending I am grading a paper, highlighting the errors, and writing a little note in the margin, “Bad, very bad, see me after class.”  

Not that Limbaugh, Hannity, or Beck do not write books, but the thought of picking one of their’s up at the store makes me feel dirty.  

Grab it at a thrift store that supports the charity of your choice and at least the money will go somewhere good.

Then afterwards the book can usually be recycled to come back in a nobler form.

Grab it at a thrift store that supports the charity of your choice and at least the money will go somewhere good.

Then afterwards the book can usually be recycled to come back in a nobler form.

Yeah, patheos loves to throw up the most bullshit ads it can possibly find for a liberal evangelical blog. “Tell Obama to stop eating white babies just because he’s such a reverse-racist!” I have saved several of the best under the series name ‘FuckRepublicans[number].jpg’.

Yeah, patheos loves to throw up the most bullshit ads it can possibly find for a liberal evangelical blog. “Tell Obama to stop eating white babies just because he’s such a reverse-racist!” I have saved several of the best under the series name ‘FuckRepublicans[number].jpg’.

I agree with most of that, but I don’t think I want a government that values SCIENCE! Non-capslock science I appreciate, but when elected officials start laughing maniacally and ranting about showing them, showing them all!* it’s not a good sign. 

*They laughed at me! They called me mad!

That seems to be basically how we got our economic policy. 

I agree with most of that, but I don’t think I want a government that values SCIENCE! Non-capslock science I appreciate, but when elected officials start laughing maniacally and ranting about showing them, showing them all!* it’s not a good sign. 

*They laughed at me! They called me mad!

That seems to be basically how we got our economic policy. 

Percentage of Americans who are Creationists:  40%
Percentage who self-identify as political liberals:  20%

Politicians know that people who share their professed values will vote for them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/20/40-of-americans-still-bel_n_799078.html
http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/conservatives-maintain-edge-top-ideological-group.aspx

Percentage of Americans who are Creationists:  40%
Percentage who self-identify as political liberals:  20%

Politicians know that people who share their professed values will vote for them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/20/40-of-americans-still-bel_n_799078.html
http://www.gallup.com/poll/123854/conservatives-maintain-edge-top-ideological-group.aspx

Contrast that with Percentage of Americans who have been told for all their lives that “liberal” means “extremist charicatures like man-haters, drug-addicted pacifists, crazy people throwing red paint on people’s clothes, and anybody who just plain hates whitey.”

Take the liberal values and conservative values.  Ask the majority of Americans which, on an individual level, they actually value and you’ll find that the majority of Americans are actually liberals.  They’re just don’t want to say it because conservative talking heads have done a decades long job of poisoning the well for that name.

Contrast that with Percentage of Americans who have been told for all their lives that “liberal” means “extremist charicatures like man-haters, drug-addicted pacifists, crazy people throwing red paint on people’s clothes, and anybody who just plain hates whitey.”

Take the liberal values and conservative values.  Ask the majority of Americans which, on an individual level, they actually value and you’ll find that the majority of Americans are actually liberals.  They’re just don’t want to say it because conservative talking heads have done a decades long job of poisoning the well for that name.

“Percentage of Americans who are Creationists:  40%”

People within this group could be more properly described as follows:

Low information folk who, in an attempt to be fair, assume that all controversies are valid: 40%

People who have been fooled by the RTC verbal toad-puffing act into thinking that creationism is the normative Christian standard; and would be surprised to learn that their own denominations signed off on evolution long ago: 40%

People who honestly believe in a literal Adam and Eve riding their trusty dinos across the
prairie singing ‘Get Along Little Dogie’s’ and ’God Bless America’: 20%

“Percentage of Americans who are Creationists:  40%”

People within this group could be more properly described as follows:

Low information folk who, in an attempt to be fair, assume that all controversies are valid: 40%

People who have been fooled by the RTC verbal toad-puffing act into thinking that creationism is the normative Christian standard; and would be surprised to learn that their own denominations signed off on evolution long ago: 40%

People who honestly believe in a literal Adam and Eve riding their trusty dinos across the
prairie singing ‘Get Along Little Dogie’s’ and ’God Bless America’: 20%

Well, if they had ‘booth boys’ too, it would be a lot more interesting for the rest of the attendees. *g*
(Actually, if there are a lot of booth babes around, it’s a sign of a trade show that’s not going well, probably for economic reasons. Or so I’ve been told by attendees of shows with eye candy.)

Well, if they had ‘booth boys’ too, it would be a lot more interesting for the rest of the attendees. *g*
(Actually, if there are a lot of booth babes around, it’s a sign of a trade show that’s not going well, probably for economic reasons. Or so I’ve been told by attendees of shows with eye candy.)

I vote for candidates who say they value what I value.

Wheareas I vote for candidates who demonstrably value what I value. Talk is cheap.

I vote for candidates who say they value what I value.

Wheareas I vote for candidates who demonstrably value what I value. Talk is cheap.

I agree with most of that, but I don’t think I want a government that values SCIENCE! Non-capslock science I appreciate, but when elected officials start laughing maniacally and ranting about showing them, showing them all!* it’s not a good sign.

Au contraire.  It is an awesome sign.

I agree with most of that, but I don’t think I want a government that values SCIENCE! Non-capslock science I appreciate, but when elected officials start laughing maniacally and ranting about showing them, showing them all!* it’s not a good sign.

Au contraire.  It is an awesome sign.

“Percentage of Americans who will respond in the affirmative to every survey, regardless of subject: 23%”.

“Percentage of Americans who will respond in the affirmative to every survey, regardless of subject: 23%”.

Percentage of Americans who know that all statistics are completely meaningless?  X.

Percentage of Americans who know that all statistics are completely meaningless?  X.

WORD.

WORD.

I do not have words for the amount of sense that does not make.  I don’t read Slate much, so I don’t know how much they value making sense and having a point and whatnot, but gaaaaaahhh!  

I do not have words for the amount of sense that does not make.  I don’t read Slate much, so I don’t know how much they value making sense and having a point and whatnot, but gaaaaaahhh!  

miscegenation
Huh.  I always thought that required breeding, but apparently not.  I have learned a thing this day.

miscegenation
Huh.  I always thought that required breeding, but apparently not.  I have learned a thing this day.

Hey, I used to have that model ever so long ago.  It was one of my pride and joys actually because it was the biggest in the that particular line of toys.  And for the time, they were pretty accurate (the Dinosaur Renaissance was just kicking off) and I had managed to acquire most of them.  To see the model displayed for a creationist booth actually makes me pretty angry. 

Hey, I used to have that model ever so long ago.  It was one of my pride and joys actually because it was the biggest in the that particular line of toys.  And for the time, they were pretty accurate (the Dinosaur Renaissance was just kicking off) and I had managed to acquire most of them.  To see the model displayed for a creationist booth actually makes me pretty angry. 

I found it interesting that the relationship education booth included a
photo of an interracial couple.  Back when I was a teenager/young adult
(sometime in the Pleistocene, I’ll admit), you would have gotten rants
against miscegenation from most southern Christians, and even from the
liberals you would have heard (I _did_ hear) strong advice against
interracial marriage.
So the hope is out there somewhere.

You forget, it was Conservative Christians who were at the forefront of fighting for the rights of mixed race couples. Absolutely no Christians opposed them, just the secluar hate filled liberals. Admittedly, at the time it was difficult to see that a nd it may have LOOKED as if there was some resistance to mixed race marriages from bigoted Christians, but luckily history has cleared that all up for us. Just like today, it might seem that Christians oppose rights for gay people, but in a few years, when gay rights is widely accepted, we will be able to see that it was the conservative Christians who were leading the fight against the evil liberals who wanted to oppress homosexual people.

I found it interesting that the relationship education booth included a
photo of an interracial couple.  Back when I was a teenager/young adult
(sometime in the Pleistocene, I’ll admit), you would have gotten rants
against miscegenation from most southern Christians, and even from the
liberals you would have heard (I _did_ hear) strong advice against
interracial marriage.
So the hope is out there somewhere.

You forget, it was Conservative Christians who were at the forefront of fighting for the rights of mixed race couples. Absolutely no Christians opposed them, just the secular hate filled liberals. Admittedly, at the time it was difficult to see that and it may have LOOKED as if there was some resistance to mixed race marriages from bigoted Christians, but luckily history has cleared that all up for us. Just like today, it might seem that conservative Christians oppose rights for gay people, but in a few years, when gay rights is widely accepted, we will be able to see that it was the conservative Christians who were leading the fight against the evil liberals who wanted to oppress homosexual people.

Think this needs some [SARCASM] tags?  I’ve heard enough “Libruls are the REEEEAL racists!!@!” gibberish on the internet lately that it’s possible someone new here might think you’re serious.

Think this needs some [SARCASM] tags?  I’ve heard enough “Libruls are the REEEEAL racists!!@!” gibberish on the internet lately that it’s possible someone new here might think you’re serious.

Denying evolution is not denying science; it is refuting the claims of scientists, which have not ever been nor are now exclusively based on science. Not all scientists are now, nor have they ever been, in agreement with evolution. But disbelieving in evolution is so unpopular that it is an easy target to make a person or position look stupid. Even creationists know that evolution is a powerful idea; we can’t miss that.

But for the Social Darwinists who control the Religious Right to pretend that they are anything but Darwinists by belief and practice, that they want people to so believe God that they obey and agree with Him rather than stay conveniently backslidden so they can be manipulated for this agenda, and for liberals in turn to use creationism to paint the opposition as “dangerous” to science and rationality–the return to the dark ages, as always–is completely dishonest. Across the board, right and left, politicians show themselves to be hypocrites who live for this world only, who deny the higher values–those which have their origin in the teachings of the Bible, such as justice, tolerance and truth–and show us that God did not send this RR movement any more than He sent the “secular humanists” that play their dialectical part so well. Western Christians have become so pragmatic that we’re no heavenly good, and we need to repent of this and let our lives be about what Jesus is about, His gospel of saving people from the righteous judgment of God.

Denying evolution is not denying science; it is refuting the claims of scientists, which have not ever been nor are now exclusively based on science. Not all scientists are now, nor have they ever been, in agreement with evolution. But disbelieving in evolution is so unpopular that it is an easy target to make a person or position look stupid. Even creationists know that evolution is a powerful idea; we can’t miss that.

But for the Social Darwinists who control the Religious Right to pretend that they are anything but Darwinists by belief and practice, that they want people to so believe God that they obey and agree with Him rather than stay conveniently backslidden so they can be manipulated for this agenda, and for liberals in turn to use creationism to paint the opposition as “dangerous” to science and rationality–the return to the dark ages, as always–is completely dishonest. Across the board, right and left, politicians show themselves to be hypocrites who live for this world only, who deny the higher values–those which have their origin in the teachings of the Bible, such as justice, tolerance and truth–and show us that God did not send this RR movement any more than He sent the “secular humanists” that play their dialectical part so well. Western Christians have become so pragmatic that we’re no heavenly good, and we need to repent of this and let our lives be about what Jesus is about, His gospel of saving people from the righteous judgment of God.

let our lives be about what Jesus is about, His gospel of saving people from the righteous judgment of God.

I’m pretty sure Jesus’ gospel was one of love for God, for yourself, and for your neighbor. And expressing that love through feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, treating the sick, and otherwise caring for anyone who is less fortunate that you in some way.

But maybe I’m reading a different book.

let our lives be about what Jesus is about, His gospel of saving people from the righteous judgment of God.

I’m pretty sure Jesus’ gospel was one of love for God, for yourself, and for your neighbor. And expressing that love through feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, treating the sick, and otherwise caring for anyone who is less fortunate that you in some way.

But maybe I’m reading a different book.

Denying evolution is not denying science; it is refuting the claims of
scientists, which have not ever been nor are now exclusively based on
science.

I see what you did there: it’s a remarkable bit of inversion.  The theory of evolution is not based solely on science (implying some kind of secularist dogma), but those who deny it do so in a seemingly scientific manner, refuting false claims … with what, exactly? Contradictory evidence?  Anyway, it would make a great headline if it were remotely true.  You are welcome to provide citations.

Not all scientists are now, nor have they ever been, in agreement with evolution.

Only something approaching 99%.  I guess that’s still within the margin of error, it you’re not terribly bright.

the higher values–those which have their origin in the teachings of the Bible, such as justice, tolerance and truth

I don’t have my reference materials handy, but I’m pretty sure the Egyptians and Sumerians had words for justice and truth.  Egypt even had a goddess devoted to truth: Maat.  And those civilizations predate your Bible by a year or a thousand.

You tar the right and the left the same brush (of false equivalency) and claim we need to “let our lives be about what Jesus is about.”  I’m pretty sure Jesus didn’t advocate for bearing false witness in order to win an argument.

Oh — great scare quotes are secular humanists.  That was a nice touch.

Denying evolution is not denying science; it is refuting the claims of
scientists, which have not ever been nor are now exclusively based on
science.

I see what you did there: it’s a remarkable bit of inversion.  The theory of evolution is not based solely on science (implying some kind of secularist dogma), but those who deny it do so in a seemingly scientific manner, refuting false claims … with what, exactly? Contradictory evidence?  Anyway, it would make a great headline if it were remotely true.  You are welcome to provide citations.

Not all scientists are now, nor have they ever been, in agreement with evolution.

Only something approaching 99%.  I guess that’s still within the margin of error, it you’re not terribly bright.

the higher values–those which have their origin in the teachings of the Bible, such as justice, tolerance and truth

I don’t have my reference materials handy, but I’m pretty sure the Egyptians and Sumerians had words for justice and truth.  Egypt even had a goddess devoted to truth: Maat.  And those civilizations predate your Bible by a year or a thousand.

You tar the right and the left the same brush (of false equivalency) and claim we need to “let our lives be about what Jesus is about.”  I’m pretty sure Jesus didn’t advocate for bearing false witness in order to win an argument.

Oh — great scare quotes are secular humanists.  That was a nice touch.

Denying evolution is denying science.  It’s denying the fruits of the scientific method.

“Science” is not defined as “anything that every single person who would ever call themselves a scientist believes”.  It’s actually a method of information gathering that works to eliminate prejudice from perception of results.

And, yeah, Republicans these days are dangerous to our national science education.  They’re actively refusing any information that doesn’t fit their preconceptions and preferences, which is exactly the opposite of how science works.

By the way, truth, justice, tolerance, none of these have their origins in the teachings of the bible.  As has been said before, Jesus said a many great things, none of them new.

Denying evolution is denying science.  It’s denying the fruits of the scientific method.

“Science” is not defined as “anything that every single person who would ever call themselves a scientist believes”.  It’s actually a method of information gathering that works to eliminate prejudice from perception of results.

And, yeah, Republicans these days are dangerous to our national science education.  They’re actively refusing any information that doesn’t fit their preconceptions and preferences, which is exactly the opposite of how science works.

By the way, truth, justice, tolerance, none of these have their origins in the teachings of the bible.  As has been said before, Jesus said a many great things, none of them new.

Au contraire.  It is an awesome sign.

Yes, but then you end up with people like the shirtless convict shown here http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090506 running the show.

Au contraire.  It is an awesome sign.

Yes, but then you end up with people like the shirtless convict shown here http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090506 running the show.

Well, if they had ‘booth boys’ too, it would be a lot more interesting for the rest of the attendees. *g*

(Actually, if there are a lot of booth babes around, it’s a sign of a trade show that’s not going well, probably for economic reasons. Or so I’ve been told by attendees of shows with eye candy.)

You know, the last time I ran into* some booth babes at a convention, they hustled me over to their booth because they wanted to take a picture of them with me in my sexy costume.  

Now there is a switch…

* I was only going to their booth because they were promoting some kind of energy drink, and said sexy costume can be hot and I was a bit dehydrated.  I otherwise tend to stay away from babe-heavy booths for the reasons PJ mentioned.  

Well, if they had ‘booth boys’ too, it would be a lot more interesting for the rest of the attendees. *g*

(Actually, if there are a lot of booth babes around, it’s a sign of a trade show that’s not going well, probably for economic reasons. Or so I’ve been told by attendees of shows with eye candy.)

You know, the last time I ran into* some booth babes at a convention, they hustled me over to their booth because they wanted to take a picture of them with me in my sexy costume.  

Now there is a switch…

* I was only going to their booth because they were promoting some kind of energy drink, and said sexy costume can be hot and I was a bit dehydrated.  I otherwise tend to stay away from babe-heavy booths for the reasons PJ mentioned.  

You forget, it was Conservative Christians who were at the forefront of fighting for the rights of mixed race couples. Absolutely no Christians opposed them, just the secular hate filled liberals. Admittedly, at the time it was difficult to see that and it may have LOOKED as if there was some resistance to mixed race marriages from bigoted Christians, but luckily history has cleared that all up for us. Just like today, it might seem that conservative Christians oppose rights for gay people, but in a few years, when gay rights is widely accepted, we will be able to see that it was the conservative Christians who were leading the fight against the evil liberals who wanted to oppress homosexual people.

And now they are trying to reclaim feminism.  All those mama bears, fighting for the right to raise their daughters as completely submissive to the authority of their husbands under God… 

Or they do the reverse, and claim that our country was founded by devout Christian men and its laws are based on Christian Values, and any evidence that suggests they supported a secular state is just a liberal plant, put into our history books to deceive generations of students (which is why you cannot trust public education anyway.)  

:p

You forget, it was Conservative Christians who were at the forefront of fighting for the rights of mixed race couples. Absolutely no Christians opposed them, just the secular hate filled liberals. Admittedly, at the time it was difficult to see that and it may have LOOKED as if there was some resistance to mixed race marriages from bigoted Christians, but luckily history has cleared that all up for us. Just like today, it might seem that conservative Christians oppose rights for gay people, but in a few years, when gay rights is widely accepted, we will be able to see that it was the conservative Christians who were leading the fight against the evil liberals who wanted to oppress homosexual people.

And now they are trying to reclaim feminism.  All those mama bears, fighting for the right to raise their daughters as completely submissive to the authority of their husbands under God… 

Or they do the reverse, and claim that our country was founded by devout Christian men and its laws are based on Christian Values, and any evidence that suggests they supported a secular state is just a liberal plant, put into our history books to deceive generations of students (which is why you cannot trust public education anyway.)  

:p

@7a2e8d2b18406692cef0f51f0ec03040:disqus Jesus is about the good news of about saving people from God?

Jesus is about the good news of about saving people from God?

Apparently. This is not a universal Christian idea. Many Christians in fact find the idea horrific, and without Biblical basis. Our position is not new.

When we point this out, as Rob Bell has, the response from “Team Hell” is full of anything but love.

This is not a universal Christian idea. Many Christians in fact find the idea horrific, and without Biblical basis. Our position is not new.

As one of the Christians who finds the idea horrific, I agree. Twas a rhetorical question.