Actions speak louder than “Satanic baby-killer” rhetoric

Syndicated reruns got me hooked on the old CBS show Early Edition years after it was cancelled.

It’s a lot of fun. If you haven’t seen it, it starred a pre-Friday Night Lights Kyle Chandler as Chicagoan Gary Hobson. Every morning, mysteriously, he receives the next day’s newspaper — a newspaper with tomorrow’s news.

Given this advance warning of the traumas and tragedies about to unfold, Chandler races around the city, trying to avert disasters, rescue the innocent and save as many lives as he can.

This plays havoc with his life. It disrupts his career and upends his relationships. He ultimately has to surrender any thought of a normal life or even of ever getting to take a day off.

He resents this — resents the ceaseless, relentless responsibility that comes with the “early edition.” But what choice does he have? Lives are at stake. If he took a day off or ignored the paper when it arrived, then people would die.

And you can’t have a show in which the hero is willing to sit around on his butt, just letting innocent people die without even trying to save them. That wouldn’t make him the hero of the show. It would make him a callous, apathetic monster.

All of which is to say, yet again, that I cannot believe that my “pro-life” friends really believe the extraordinary things they claim to believe. Because if they really believed the things they claim to believe, that would make them callous, apathetic monsters. And I don’t think that’s what they are.

Consider, for example, our new friend Frank the Prolific Poster. Earlier today, Frank wrote this as a description of legal abortion in the U.S. over the past 40 years: “Almost 55 million unborn children killed.”

Children. Killed. Someone is killing children! Tens of millions of children!

That’s horrifying!

I mean that. If one truly believes that this is an accurate description of abortion, then one truly should be horrified by it.

But most people who claim to believe such a thing don’t.

Our new friend Frank, for example, says he believes that an embryo or fetus is a fully human person, indistinct from any other human person. Thus, in his view, abortion is the murder of innocent children. I do not believe that an embryo or fetus is a fully human person. Thus, in my view, abortion does not involve the killing of innocent children. That seems to be the core of our disagreement.

But, again, I do not believe we really disagree. I do not believe that Frank really believes what he says he believes.

I don’t just mean that at the basic level at which, as former anti-abortion pioneer Frank Schaeffer says, “it is gut-check self-evident that a fertilized egg is not a person, because personhood is a lot more than a collection of chromosomes in a Petri dish or in the womb.”

What I mean is that if our new friend Frank really believed that tens of millions of children  were being murdered, then his behavior would be inexcusable. To believe what he claims to believe while behaving as he behaves would be monstrous — inhumanly callous and cowardly.

And I refuse to believe that our new friend is such a contemptibly cowardly monster.

Here is the headline of our early edition: This year, some 1.2 million abortions will be performed in the United States.

To believe what Frank says he believes would mean that you had to accept that every day, some 3,288 children are going to be murdered. That’s more than a 9/11 every single day for a year. Every. Single. Day.

What would such a belief, if it were genuinely held, require of the one who believed it?

Far more than joining a political party or voting in elections every few years. Far more than sending the occasional check to some group abstractly lobbying against the murder of children.

And far, far more than trolling the comment sections of C-level blogs to repeatedly express a strongly worded opinion.

This is a belief that — at a minimum — demands the believer quit his job and take to the streets. It won’t do to volunteer occasionally. It is nowhere near sufficient to demonstrate the sincerity of this belief by protesting outside of a clinic once a week, or twice a week, or even five days a week. To really believe that abortion means “children killed” requires a 24/7/365 reshaping of one’s entire life.

Forget about any thought of a normal life or even of ever getting to take a day off. Lives are at stake — children’s lives.

Anyone who really believed that could not spend hour after hour in the comments sections of blogs.

If someone really believed that children’s lives are at stake, they would be too busy chaining themselves across the front doors of hospitals to waste precious hours just talking, talking, talking — mostly about themselves and their alleged morals. Blog disputes, self-congratulation and the marking-off of tribal territory would be luxuries such a true believer could not afford when 3,300 children are about to be murdered and the clock is always ticking ticking ticking.

I have seen very, very few people whose behavior allowed me to believe that they really believed any such thing.

  • ChrisH

    I sympathize with people who have gone through depression and pain worried they were not doing enough.  When I was a child there were some nights where I cried softly in bed reflecting on the plight of starving people elsewhere.  I do not believe this is anywhere near what Fred was aiming for.

    Talking about the human frailty of losing emotional detachment with distance and lack of personal interaction would be a whole different post and thread.  It’s hard to muster moral outrage for people far away, especially when your actions don’t have direct consequences.  If there is an uprising in Syria and natural to think we should do something, but if Iraq has retaught people, there is not the same moral clarity in knowing ‘what’ to do.

    Fred is talking about something else entirely.

    Over 3,000 baby’s a day?  the pro life groups are saying there is a Holocaust going on.  In fact that is what some of them literally say.  http://www.survivors.la/

    Look at that website…they count over 50 million babies killed and invoke Lincoln and the heroes of WWII in their frontpage video.  They are telling you Auschwitz is in your town.  Do you live in Dallas?  There are 7 Planned Parenthood Centers.  7 Death Camps.  Do you live on South Henderson Street?  They are killing people down the block.  There is a death camp within biking distance?  At the very least you should be acting like the people fighting in the civil rights movement.  They didn’t all quit their jobs but they were not afraid to be arrested, repeatedly.  They were not afraid to face fire hoses and dogs and billy clubs.

    They were not content to write a politician a check who promised that sometime down the road he would appoint someone to the Supreme Court that would fix all this.  And civil rights for african americans is a tiny thing compared to the mass killings people refer to with abortion.  But the two main thrusts of the pro life movement are apparently making it harder for poor people to have abortions and posting satirical reviews on planned parenthood
    http://maps.google.com/maps?q=planned+parenthood+texas&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=fqdFT5riGMaBsgKUnMTDDw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=3&ved=0CAwQ_AUoAg

    Saying you would have to quit your job may be extreme but you would think the issue would be more pressing.  They’ve hosted a March for Life on DC annually for 38 years.  If they really felt so strongly you would think they would try a different approach.

  • FangsFirst

    the pro life groups are saying there is a Holocaust going on.

    I’ve always found this the absolute most moronic of claims.

    Holocaust: People are killed for their ethnicities, disabilities, religion…
    Abortion: fetuses are terminated because of their…?
    Oh, right. It isn’t an attempt to wipe out any grouping of people.

    Unless someone really thinks there’s someone in the background cackling, “Finally! I can rid the world of fetuses!”

  • http://blog.trenchcoatsoft.com Ross

    Didn’t you hear? Frank doesn’t want to make it illegal. He just wants to make it *hard*.  He wants to make it so that women can still get abortions, *but* he gets to shame them for being sluts. He wants them to stil lbe able to get out of carrying their rapists’ spawn, but he wants to force them to relive the experience in state-mandated forced-penetration. Abortion, says he, is totes murder, but it should still be a woman’s *right* to choose it. After she has begged permission from a committee of men who will sit in judgment over whether her reasons are good enough, and whether or not she’s just a slut who should have kept her legs together and therefore *deserves* the *punishment* of forced childbirth.


    By the way, Virginia is also passing a bill to allow adoption agencies to refuse to place with LGBT couples. Because having done all and sundry to discourage abortion, OBVIOUSLY they also want to make it harder to find homes for the unwanted babies scared women were shamed into having.

  • Lori

     
    I wish you would stop making this argument, Fred.  It “proves” much more than it’s supposed to; if it demonstrates that anti-abortion people don’t think abortion is murder it also demonstrates that you and I think that starving children is okay, that enslaving people is okay, that mass rape is okay–because we do not uproot our lives and become heroes and try to stop these terrible things.  

    I think this is a fair point, but I also think there are differences between the anti-choice internet crusaders and you. The anti-choice trolls don’t simply say that they believe abortion is murder. They say that this belief is the critical belief that defines them as true Christians and then they proceed to not only fail to take any real action to stop it, they advocate for policies which increase it. 

    If you were trolling comment threads about food policy with high blown rhetoric about starving children and simultaneously insisting that we need to cut foreign aid, eliminate WIC and other food support for the needy, and eliminate subsidies for food crops while increasing subsidies for corn destined for ethanol production then you would be more or less equivalent to Frank. 

    I’m just about 100% confident that you would never do anything like that, because you actually do care about starving children. You aren’t dedicating your life to it, but when you have the chance to raise your voice or give you time or money or cast your vote you don’t support things that increase the number of starving children in the world. 

    Frank does support things, like denying insurance coverage for birth control, that increase the number of abortions. 

    You believe that starving children are a tragedy. Frank does not believe that abortion is murder. 

  • Dan Audy

     

    I’ve always found this the absolute most moronic of claims.

    Holocaust: People are killed for their ethnicities, disabilities, religion…
    Abortion: fetuses are terminated because of their…?
    Oh, right. It isn’t an attempt to wipe out any grouping of people.

    Unless someone really thinks there’s someone in the background cackling, “Finally! I can rid the world of fetuses!”

    That is why they try REALLY HARD to tie abortion to eugenics and point out how African American’s have abortions at a disproportionate rate*.  They understand that ethnic cleansing is worse than abortion so they try to conflate the two issues in hopes of confusing the poorly informed.

    *Which they do but it ignores the fact that people living in poverty get abortions at a higher rate and a disproportionate number of African American’s live in poverty.  Unfortunately their response isn’t “Lets help raise the average standard of living for African American’s so they won’t feel the need to get abortions” but “Lets use this as a cudgel to convince people that we care about African Americans despite spending the rest of our time claiming they are a bunch of ignorant criminals and decrying the ‘Death of White America’.”

  • FangsFirst

     And I somehow doubt their concern is really for brown babies anyway…making it endless layers of lies, hypocrisy and deception.

    WHEEE!!
    Crap, wrong sound.

  • Amanda

    Hmmm, I think I agree with Fred that most pro-life people don’t really take abortion as seriously as they SAY they do, but I think he could have explained it better.

    For example, I think Global Warming is VERY BAD. But I don’t go to websites containing a bunch of global warming deniers and troll them, or try to act morally superior to them, or things like that.

    I try to do things that might hopefully actually reduce global warming!

    I also think it’s bad that so many cats and dogs get euthanized, so all my pets are fixed. I think factory farmed animals are treated badly, so I only eat humanely raised meat. I know people who sincerely believe it’s wrong to eat animals at all, so they’re vegetarians.

    Now, I’m just one person, so there’s only so much I can do. That’s true. But I try to at least make whatever effort I CAN actually put into a cause to have SOME CHANCE of doing some good.

    Are pro-lifers doing that? Well, some are. I have heard of a few pro-lifers who, for example, adopted all their children instead of having their own to save them from being aborted.

    But most pro-lifers don’t seem to do ANYTHING that actually reduces the number of abortions. They don’t donate to Planned Parenthood, which helps people who don’t want to be pregnant NOT get pregnant so they don’t have abortions, or support comprehensive sex education so teens won’t get pregnant, or support causes that help poor women so they can afford to have the kid instead of aborting them.

    I just saw Rick Santorum do some speech about how “Obamacare” is going to force insurance companies to pay for pre-natal care, and he kept talking about it in these ominous tones, like it’s a BAD thing. I thought having good pre-natal care SAVES babies! I was so confused about Mr. Baby-saver dissing PRENATAL CARE.

    So yeah, I think Fred’s basically right that pro-lifers don’t seem to REALLY care about the babies. Otherwise they’d be doing more things that, you know, actually save babies. I think he maybe went a little too far expecting them to go all Batman-like, but… well, they could at least not be supporting policies that actually make abortions more COMMON, like making it hard to get birth control, yeesh. 

  • Anonymous

    Sorry I just can’t agree with Fred on this one. For the reasons already given which I do not feel I could put better. Certainly MaryKaye has put it very well. I was shocked by Fred’s comments it almost seems to suggest that those nutters attacking clinics and doctors are at least being true to their beliefs!

  • Lori

     
    Didn’t you hear? Frank doesn’t want to make it illegal. He just wants to make it *hard*.  He wants to make it so that women can still get abortions, *but* he gets to shame them for being sluts.  

    Holy crap! Frank is Megan McArdle.

    http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2012/02/modes-of-conservertarian-sexism

  • Amanda

    Ok, just noticed that Lori basically said what I meant only better than how I said it.

  • Brad

    Anybody see the latest Tom The Dancing Bug yet?

    It’s one of his Super Fun-Pak comic pages. One of them shows a guy in an Adam Strange-like costume appear before an office worker.

    “I’ve done it!” says the space guy. “I went back in time and killed Krauss!”

    Office guy goes, “Who?”

    “Krauss! I got him before he could become fuhrer and lead Germany into World War II!”

    Office guy: “Don’t you mean Hitler?”

    Time traveller: “Aw man, I gotta go back and kill HITLER now? This is the eighth time!  How many of these guys ARE there, anyhow?”

    Did this ever happen in Early Edition, you stop person A from causing a catastrophe only to find it was caused by person B?

  • http://twitter.com/Jenk3 Jen K

    On a tangential note about Early Edition, part of the premise (as I understand it) is that there’s only one early newspaper.  Either Gary does something — or no one does.   That adds a bit more immediacy to the question.

  • Lunch Meat

    On a tangential note about Early Edition, part of the premise (as I understand it) is that there’s only one early newspaper.  Either Gary does something — or no one does.   That adds a bit more immediacy to the question.

    Now I’m picturing a comedy where five or six people get the newspaper and they get in each other’s way trying to solve things.

  • Anonymous

    There’s a severe difference between believing that children are being murdered and any of the examples that you listed. Thinking animals at factory farms are not treated well is not thinking children are being murdered, nor is thinking animals shouldn’t be euthanized, nor is even global warming.

    There’s nothing analogous to children being murdered, because it is children being murdered. If you were living next door to a woman with ten children and every day you watched her murder one of them, you certainly wouldn’t act by voting for politicians who made promises to one day elect enough judges to over turn a court decision that allowed child murder to be possible.

  • Baeraad

    I… partly agree. I do not believe that knowledge that something terrible is going on is enough to make people change their lives completely. People need to live their lives, first and foremost – it takes a real hero to abandon all comfort and all personal goals in favour of making an all-consuming cause of it.

    However, I would like to posit a slightly altered theory: if these people really believed, deep down, what they claim to believe, they would be upset about it.

     They wouldn’t be sitting around in online threads going, “ha ha, I’m *better* than you,” like Frank is doing. They would, at the very least, be sitting around in online threads going, “why can’t you understand? *Children* are *dying*! We have to put a stop to it!” They’d be angry. They’d be heartbroken. Frank strikes me as none of those things. He strikes me as really reveling in his entirely illusionary moral and intellectual superiority, is what he strikes me as.

    Yes, I am in fact faulting the forced-birthers for not having enough passionate sincerity. Don’t knock it. It is perfectly possible to be passionate, sincere, *and wrong* – but if you are not passionate about matters that deserve passion, then I do not believe your sincerity.

  • Lori

     
    Did this ever happen in Early Edition, you stop person A from causing a catastrophe only to find it was caused by person B?  

     

    I didn’t see every episode and I’m kind of fuzzy on the plot details of most of the ones I did see, but I’m pretty sure this basic thing happened in more than one way. Gary often had difficulty figuring out the correct place to shift things to get a better outcome and IIRC he had at least one thing that he wasn’t able to prevent. Every change he made simply got him to the same outcome in a different way. 

    A few years ago Eliza Dushku was in a TV show, Tru Calling, that had a variation on the same basic premise. She had the ability to repeat the past 24 hours again and again in order to prevent people from dying (presumably before their time). Again, I didn’t see all the episodes but IIRC there was more than one person who Tru couldn’t save no matter how many times/ways she tried, because they weren’t really supposed to be saved. 

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Pro-life arguments arguably make me a worse person. I’m tempted to be the worst pro-abortion strawman ever: women should have MANDATORY abortions until our population drops to an acceptable level; abortion rights should be expanded until the child develops speech; fetuses are tasty in a proper red wine roux; and so on.

    Ohmygod, and here I thought I was the only one!  :D

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    I think that misogynistic “man should be the head of the woman” types are doing great damage to the people they influence and the families they raise, both female and male.  Yet when I say that I want to make a brutal, bloody example out of a few of the “alphas” to cow the others into compliance, I get called a “violent asshole.” 

    Oh sure, I would love to spend years gradually persuading each and every one of them through reason until they finally achieve greater enlightenment regarding gender relations, but there are not enough years left to me to visit and entreat with all of them.  The problem is just to big for people like me to solve. 

    Does that make my beliefs false? 

  • http://www.oliviareviews.com/ PepperjackCandy

    I’m one of those who don’t believe that Fred is calling for everyone here to  “take up our crosses.”  I think that he’s simply calling out Frank as all talk and no action. 

    And I’m willing to bet that nearly everyone here is doing something, no matter how small, to make the world a better place.  Donating time, or money, or computer resources, or just getting the word out in appropriate venues when something important is going on.

    And if you aren’t and would like to?  I can suggest a few small ways to start, and many other people here can, too.

  • Baeraad

    … and yes,  now that I have had a moment to read through all the replies, I of course realise that about a gazillion people had already said what I said by the time I said it. Oh well. Consider me part of the chorus, then.

  • Rikalous

     

    Pro-life arguments arguably make me a worse person. I’m tempted to be
    the worst pro-abortion strawman ever: women should have MANDATORY
    abortions until our population drops to an acceptable level; abortion
    rights should be expanded until the child develops speech; fetuses are
    tasty in a proper red wine roux; and so on.

    That is awful. Fetuses are much tastier without a bunch of sauce covering up their natural flavor.

  • Münchner Kindl

    Dear Fred (if you are reading those long comments)

    1. Don’t put yourself down. You’re not a C-level blog. Your writing is A-level. Unless you mean national attention, or that you’re not an “official column writer”? But all the important people are reading it – we! ;-)

    2. Please don’t encourage insane people to get from trolling to real action. Next thing, we have another doctor shot.

    3. Couldn’t you point out that if the troll were actually concerned about children, he would also campaign for helping the already existing children? You’ve made the point in the past how the groups with “family” in the name are actually advocating anti-family laws and measures.

    Please write something to that effect, on the measures that adversly affect existing children, on lack of support for mothers leading women to consider abortion in the first place … that would be an interesting breakdown in any case, if you put it on the front page (instead of having to wade through the comments): why and what people do get abortions? Are they teenagers without access to contraception? Rape victims? Women in their 40s and above, who have had several children before and therefore know that they can’t go through this again? (Actually a larger portion today than teens, I’ve read recently). How much are real medical reasons – complications developing during the pregnancy (and how many women shouldn’t have gotten pregnant in the first place because of this?)

    How much does money directly (welfare, food stamps) and indirectly (social housing, free kindergardens) play a role when women decide they can’t raise a child? How much lack of social workers helping with advice and providing babysitters to finish school?

    And keep up the good work, please.

    P.S.: I’m missing the absurd idiocy of Left Behind: when’s the next recap?

  • Dan Audy

    Did this ever happen in Early Edition, you stop person A from causing a
    catastrophe only to find it was caused by person B?

    Yes.  There was even at least one episode where he tried to solve a problem only to create a worse problem which he then tried to solve creating an even bigger third problem which he finally solved between the last commercial break and the end of the episode.

  • Anonymous

    There are ways of seriously reacting to abortion-as-murder short of dedicating your life to vigilantism.  Normally if someone hires a hitman they are treated just as guilty of murder as they would if they killed the victim themselves.  Indeed, just last year Virginia executed a woman who had her husband and stepson murdered:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20017509-504083.html 

    If pro-life people seriously believed that abortion is murder they should be having a lively debate over whether life in prison is sufficient for a woman who murders her fetus, or whether the death penalty is needed.  That they aren’t is telling, I think.

  • Mks Mary

    But we know that terrible tragedies are taking place every day, in the US and elsewhere. Children starve or die of preventable and treatable diseases all the time. Are you personally an apathetic monster for not spending all your time volunteering in a free clinic, or better, a refugee camp? Aren’t we all monsters?

  • Apostrophe Skye

    (Delurking…I believe I am supposed to reference sheep in some manner?)

    I don’t think the point of the post was that everyone should be working till they drop from exhaustion if they believe in a cause (though a lot of people can probably do more), but that the recently-yanked-from-our-consciousness Frank was so obviously behaving in bad faith.

    Someone who really believed, in a concrete, in-your-gut kind of way, the things Frank said wouldn’t have behaved like that. He might or might not take to the streets, but he wouldn’t have parked on the site for hours to call the commenters here (here I’m summing up what must have been hours of Frank) godless, callous dummies. He’d have said, “I think you people are godless, callous dummies…but what would it take for you or your loved ones personally to consider foregoing an abortion”? And if someone mentioned social programs, he might have said “There’s not a lot of money for that kind of thing in this economy: is there anything else”? It might have been an unproductive discussion, maybe, but it would have been one. He’d have actually cared about the piddling details that make up so much of actually getting something done, rather than just pounding his chest and saying “I am right on BIG ISSUE!!!” over and over.

    Or he could, for example, have taken his rant to a more receptive audience where it might have had an effect. He could have started his own site, been crafting an op-ed, or any other of a number of low-energy, nonviolent activities that would bring more to his cause than smugging all over Fred’s blog. But he didn’t, and I’m glad he’s gone, because I really love this site and was starting to dread reading it.

    Please be gentle…

  • Wednesday

    Myself, I like to ask the people making the “abortion is the Holocaust” claims for specific details. For example, do the gay fetuses have to wear pink triangles* while the Romani fetuses wear red ones and the Jewish ones wear yellow triangles or stars, depending on the site? Are some of the fetuses shot in  huge groups and then buried, some still alive, in a mass grave?  Are the fetuses put on trains and taken to camps where they very literally worked to death? Are some fetuses forced to work in crematoriums, incinerating the remains of other fetuses?

    *Yes, that’s where the pink triangle symbol originated.

  • Lori

    Welcome aboard. Please don’t kill us with sheep. 

  • Anonymous

    If they didn’t think they had a responsibility to stop abortion, they
    shouldn’t troll message boards reminding us of how superior they feel
    they are.  And if they do think they have a responsibility to stop
    abortion, they shouldn’t pursue policies completely orthogonal to that
    goal like banning contraception and they definitely shouldn’t waste time
    yelling at strangers on the Internet.

    “I think that’s the real key here.”

    Except that birth control is not orthogonal to stopping abortion.  Widespread access to birth control is key to eliminating, or at least minimizing, abortions.  The reasons for this are not subtle.  So when someone claims to believe that abortion is baby killing, while simultaneously opposing access to birth control, this person is claiming to be a monster.  He is not merely passively standing by as babies are killed, he is actively working to ensure that babies continue to be slaughtered.

    I think that Fred overstates his argument, because human nature is such that people passively stand by as monstrous acts are committed.  But he is right that pro-lifers don’t actually believe their own rhetoric.  I just think there are beter arguments to demonstrate this.

  • FangsFirst

    I think that misogynistic “man should be the head of the woman” types
    are doing great damage to the people they influence and the families
    they raise, both female and male.  Yet when I say that I want to make a
    brutal, bloody example out of a few of the “alphas” to cow the others
    into compliance, I get called a “violent asshole.”

    Which happens to be almost the exact sentiment behind “Kill one abortion doctor, it will stop others from working in the area, too.”

    And then, well–
    Here.
    I love this song, and I think the message is rather important.

    For further commentary–as it is a true story, and he sometimes is concerned about how people take the song.

    And in case anyone catches the word he uses toward the end and dislikes it, this is how he treats that line live now, and has done for over five years (did it when I saw him!)

  • Base Delta Zero

    Which happens to be almost the exact sentiment behind “Kill one abortion doctor, it will stop others from working in the area, too.”

    Well, yes.  It’s not entirely wrong.

  • Patrick LeBar

    While it would be unfair to assume that because someone is pro-life, they tow the Republican Party line, I think it’s safe to say that every single major Republican politician shows their hypocrisy in a huge way that wasn’t discussed specifically in Fred’s post: They say abortion’s body count eclipses the Holocaust’s. They say that the disproportionate number of black women who have abortions is actually evidence of a sinister liberal plot against black people(I believe Herman Cain, who spent time as the leading candidate to become leader of the free world, used this line of thought.).
    Yet, the thing that gets them out of bed in the morning, the thing they’ll put all their energy into fighting, the thing they’ll hold the world economy hostage for, is preserving Bush tax cuts the 1%. Either they are somewhat insincere, or honestly think a 3% increase on the top marginal tax rate is WORSE THAN THE HOLOCAUST, otherwise they wouldn’t stop filibustering and hostage taking until abortion was gone.

  • FangsFirst

     No, it’s very true. Merely noting that it’s thinking in the same fashion that the most insane of the pro-lifers do.

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Hell, if I was an abortion doctor, I would consider an attempt on my life, even a successful attempt, to be a validation.  I pissed off a forced birth misogynist enough to try to kill me?  I call that a win. 

    Come, I say to them, let us dance together, let the hate flow through you…

    It is honestly why I would rather not have a family.  No one to miss me when I am gone, no one to be hurt by my passing.  It allows me to walk to my death with a clear conscience and no fear.  I can die doing what is right, with no compunctions to hold me back from pursuing that course.  It is those things, more than anything else, that hold a person back, disconnection their feelings from their actions.  I can accept death or imprisonment, but I only ever get one good shot at it and it has to count.  It will send shockwaves through any family that I have.  Better then that I have none. 

    But really, impassioned that I am, do you have to feed me so? 

  • http://loosviews.livejournal.com BringTheNoise

     No one to miss me when I am gone, no one to be hurt by my passing.

    If you want to pull that off… well, it’s too late. You’ve met people – some of them will miss you.

  • http://profiles.google.com/fader2011 Alex Harman

    Heh.  “Alpha” is PUA-speak for what a psychologist would call Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    I have similar dark thoughts about the gang of crooks and morons who crashed the U.S. economy in 2008: we ought to identify the worst 10% or so of the banksters (like the ones at Goldman Sachs who deliberately created and sold the worst, most guaranteed-to-fail CDO’s they possibly could, in order to make money betting against them with credit default swaps) and string them up from lamp posts along Wall Street, pour décourager les autres from similar skullduggery in the future.  Just a fantasy, although I really would like to see the ones who engaged in that kind of outright fraud jailed, stripped of their ill-gotten wealth, and banned for life from working in the financial sector.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Yet when I say that I want to make a brutal, bloody example out of a few
    of the “alphas” to cow the others into compliance, I get called a
    “violent asshole.” 

    The basic problem, FearlessSon, is that the use of force to solve a problem must needs be a last resort. Since we cannot pre-emptively convict people of crimes they have not yet committed, it is the unfortunate side effect of our society that we often have to wait until actual domestic violence is committed before the law and its arms (police, judiciary) can step in and prevent further harm to the woman.

    Look, I don’t like it either. I wish there was a way a woman who feels threatened by her boyfriend/husband/brother/father/$MALE could call someone and say “Look, you need to help take this man away from me” and be taken seriously. As it is the premonitions of women being abused tend to be disregarded too often.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Hell, if I was an abortion doctor, I would consider an attempt on my life, even a successful attempt, to be a validation.  I pissed off a forced birth misogynist enough to try to kill me?  I call that a win.

    Not every doctor, FearlessSon, is Dr. Henry Morgentaler.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Morgentaler

  • FangsFirst

    Hell, if I was an abortion doctor, I would consider an attempt on my life, even a successful attempt, to be a validation.  I pissed off a forced birth misogynist enough to try to kill me?  I call that a win.

    So your end goal is to piss off people you disagree with? That’s the win?
    Women in the area very probably–see George Tiller and Wichita, KS–are now deprived of a necessary service, but you “win” because you pissed someone off?

    See the problem here?

    Dying for something–as a goal–is selfish. Inherently–even beyond whether it affects other people. It’s just a disguised death wish, where one wishes said death has meaning. Hell, your comments following that encourage this perception, which is rather troubling in ways other than people tend to find your views troubling.

    It makes the goal being The Defender, rather than defending people.

    There are “people” I’d like to see dead. That I’d like to do awful, horrible, terrible things to. And I’d have one chance to do it, if I decided to. I’d probably fail, but that isn’t what stops me. Honestly, it isn’t even that my subsequent imprisonment (or, probably, death…these are not average joes) would hurt the  people who care about me. And I’m far gone enough on them that I couldn’t care less about their families. They’d deserve it for raising such inhuman garbage. Of course, those views are way off kilter. And I know that. I can’t change them, but I can recognize them as excessive and wrong to act upon.

    But the real reason not to is that it wouldn’t do jack shit for good. It would put people at risk, if I failed. Even if I succeeded. Just because you think an act of violence is justified–even if it is “objectively” justified–does not mean everyone else will. Retaliation. That’s what I fear. Not for myself, but for others. For the people they hurt already. I would be doing nothing but feeding my own desire to have done something, and put tons of people at risk in the process, including, quite possibly, the ones they already hurt.

    Yeah, your clinic gets bombed. Awesome! You really pissed them off! Oh, right. Now your coworkers are dead too. And some of your patients and prospective patients. But, uh, they sure got pissed off! We won!

    That suggestion someone pointed you at before–being a non-violent escort at Planned Parenthoods: does that not sound like a virtuous thing? It avoids violence on your part, lets you serve as protector and actually do something valuable, without some gung ho hero bullshit.

    PS: If I’m totally honest? Mine is a death wish. It is. I don’t want to live with a world where something like what they did happens and nothing happens to “balance” it. And likely nothing ever will. But that’s a selfish thought. In all of these scenarios, as well as my own reality, it’s a selfish thought. The women who needed those abortions, or the women being abused, they are going to continue to live with the awful things they’ve been through, or the awful things they will now have to go through if you fail, or the awful things that the people who cared about the person you killed or beat up or who killed you do or have done to them. You get out free and clear, dead and immune to consequences (at least, that’s my view as an atheist, YMMV for anyone else), and leave the people who suffered to suffer longer and without someone there to give a damn.

    You know, go check out what people are supposed to do when they know someone who’s suffered violence. I’ll give you a hint: it isn’t, “I’ll go beat him/her/them up!” or even to say, “I’d like to kill him/her/them!”

    Actually, I can speak from experience and confirm what all the literature says: don’t fucking do that. It’s often not a happy thing for people to hear who have already been through some kind of violence, no matter what your intentions are.

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    I think that is exactly what should have been done, Alex.  We need a public demonstration that people are not allowed to get away with this kind of shit. 

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Unfortunately, less-than-force tactics have proven ineffective.  Hell, it is the twenty-first century and some people, male and female, still view women as less than equal.  The other issue is that domestic violence is not the only thing on the table.  They perpetuate a mentality that there is some artificial difference between the genders.  The complimentarians should know that “seperate but equal” is never “equal”. 

    With that said, can we please let this subject drop for the moment?  I find it triggering.  My body heat is up and my knuckles are sore and bruised from pounding on objects I know are tough enough that I will not break them as I discharge the pent up emotion. 

  • Frank

    Men and women are different biologically, physiologically and hormonally. They will never be the same so they will always be separate and not equal but everyone should have equal legal rights.

  • phantomreader42

    Frank is not a human being, it’s just a pile of rotting garbage that occasionally emits puffs of noxious gas.  

  • phantomreader42

    And yes, anyone who openly endorses “separate but equal” should no longer be treated as a person with rights, because the only purpose or effect that “separate but equal” has ever had has been to deny rights to others.  

  • Lori

    Frank’s a Poe who has apparently gotten around a ban to continue to plague us with his feeble attempt at wit. Ignore it and it’ll go away. 

  • http://www.nicolejleboeuf.com/index.php Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little

     

    That is awful. Fetuses are much tastier without a bunch of sauce covering up their natural flavor.

    Can I be the only one thinking, “Don’t! Drown! Your FOOD! / In mayo, salt, ketchup or goop! It’s no fun to eat what you can’t even see / So don’t! Drown! Your FOOD!” I’m certainly not the only one old enough to remember seeing the jingle on TV between the Saturday morning cartoons in the U.S.

    Dear Frank:

    Have you not read the archives? Can you truly be unaware of your fate?

    It goes like this: First, you get called a troll. Then, Fred makes fun of you — or at the very least argues with you — in the main posts. Then, he bans you, and there’s nothing left but the regulars telling the newbies your Tale of Woe as a caution unto them. Also not to kill them with sheep.

    By some reports, it may already be too late.

  • Frank

    Not sure what you are trying to say….

    I am perfectly aware of my fate. Being banned validates my actions and position. I would feel disgusting if I found myself agreeing with some of the positions outlined on this blog. If I were accepted here I would be on the wrong track.

    I may not have the best delivery and I have said something things that I think I could have said better but all in I am encouraged that I am on the right mission and I am more motivated than ever. The truth must be continually put out there.

  • Anonymous

    I may not have the best delivery and I have said something things that I think I could have said better

    I don’t want to actually reply to the thing; I just want to preserve this one magnificent statement before the creature that said it gets deleted yet again. It’s so hideous, it’s almost art. I doff my hat to you, Amanda Squeeze.

  • Anonymous

    The one that constantly runs through my head, whenever I go to or even pass by a buffet table of any kind, is “Don’t knock it till you’ve tried it / Eating can be FUN! / Try little bites of lots of things / Instead of lots of one!” Sung by a long-legged egg in a top hat. Or possibly he was a cheese square, or a block of tofu. But I remember the top hat and the long skinny legs.

    Ah, early Seventies post-Schoolhouse Rock PSAs. Good times!

  • Lori

    The top hat & long skinny legs character was, IIRC, cheese. He definitely suggested cheese as a good snack–”Look! A wagon wheel.” And of course, the song: “I hanker for a hunk a/ a slab or slice or chunk a/ I hanker for a hunk a cheese!”