Against such there must be a law

“There is no law against such things,” the apostle Paul wrote of “self-control.”

Silly man. People can’t be allowed to control themselves. That’s why we have all kinds of laws against such things.

Laws forbidding self-control are, in fact, the essence of contemporary American evangelicalism. Advocacy for such laws are what we have made the central, defining characteristic of our faith.

Who decides? Who will be trusted to decide? Who is in control?

Not you. You can’t be trusted to decide for yourself.

Self-control? Against such there must be a law.

s.e. smith: “Reproductive Parts“:

There is only this, the steady and escalating war for control. The reminder that the state owns us and our pieces, will carve us up and use us as it sees fit. The state has all the power in this equation. It expresses no remorse.

I feel like I am living in a speculative fiction nightmare. I snap the light by the door off and on to see if that wakes me up. I start to wonder if I’m floating in a tank somewhere and this is all being fed into my head. If I selected this from a library of entertainment options before entering hibernation mode. (Why would I have done that?) Maybe I’m actually hurtling through space, getting ready to found a colony on a distant world, waiting for landfall and the activation of the wakeup sequence.

A politician says abortion is bad for women. A politician says birth control is bad for women. A politician says he wants to ban prenatal testing. A politician says women should focus on their families. A politician says sex is for reproduction only. A politician says queers are disgusting. A politician says.

A friend in Canada asks if it’s really true.

“Yes,” I say. “Yes, yes it is.”

“How is that even legal,” she says.

“Because the lawmakers say so,” I say.

Georgia state Rep. Yasmine Neal introduces the Anti-Vasectomy Act:

Thousands of children are deprived of birth in this state every year because of the lack of state regulation over vasectomies. It is patently unfair that men can avoid unwanted fatherhood by presuming that their judgment over such matters is more valid than the judgment of the General Assembly, while women’s ability to decide is constantly up for debate throughout the United States. Women, our bodies, and what we do with it are always up for debate.

This bill has been drafted for all women who have the wherewithal to choose. The day has come where men should feel the same pressure and invasion of privacy that women have faced for years. I have introduced this legislation because it is the purpose of  the General Assembly to assert an invasive state interest in the reproductive habits of the men of this state and substitute the will of the government over the will of adult men.

This bill states that vasectomies can be performed to avert the death of a man or to avert serious risk of substantial or irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function of the man. This bill mimics the abortion bills throughout the nation, and just like the abortion bills interfere with a woman’s right to choose, it’s only fair that the General Assembly debate the men’s right to choose, as well.

 

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ JarredH

     Considering I haven’t seen you show respect to anyone, no not really.

  • Anonymous

    I would be ashamed to “earn” your “respect.”

  • http://accidental-historian.typepad.com/ Geds

     Yes I get it! It’s easier for you to dismiss the humanity of the unborn
    than face a hard truth that will cause you to make some changes in your
    life. I get it, we all do!

    Well, considering that the developing fetus doesn’t even begin to take on anything even closely resembling human characteristics until about 30 days in and a proto-human would be basically indistinguishable from, say, a proto-dog or a proto-zebrafish, then…yes.  It is rather easy to do.

    I hope you don’t eat caviar, as by your logic fish eggs are the exact same thing as unborn babies.  And, oooh, if you’ve had an omelette recently you’re headed straight to hell.

    Now, this is the part where I’d usually suggest you look up the pharyngula stage of development, but we already know you’re just here for the slut shaming and lack reading comprehension skills, so, whatever.

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ JarredH

    Aha!  So people whose views you don’t like can be treated as banally as you desire.  Which makes your criticism of Morilore quite hypocritical.  But hey, you can act however you want, right?  The rules don’t apply to you, I’m sure.

  • Anonymous

    What it says about me is that I hate bigots, I hate dishonest people, and above both I hate dishonest bigots.  I’m pretty satisfied with that.

    What your posts say about you is that

    1) You don’t actually give a shit about “unborn children” (fetuses)
    2) You hate women

  • pharoute

    Interesting how “pro-life” arguments end up being pro-birth arguments. The things that would actually reduce the number of abortions (comprehensive sex education, birth control, free pre-natal and post-natal care) don’t come up or are shot down as being unreasonable.

  • http://accidental-historian.typepad.com/ Geds

     I respect people who deserve respect. Pro-abortion people deserve no respect.

    Did it ever occur to you that maybe those of us in the pro-allowing-women-bodily-autonomy crowd don’t think that intentionally uneducated, myopic  shitstains deserve respect?  Because, um, we don’t.  Not that it matters to you, since you’re one of those aforementioned shitstains.

    Then again, if we don’t deserve your oh-so-goddamned-important respect, why are your here again?  Don’t you have pictures of aborted fetuses to hold up next to the highway or something?

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ JarredH

    Then treat those with opposing views with respect.

    Act like you expect others to act.

  • http://accidental-historian.typepad.com/ Geds

     A human fertilized egg will never develop into anything other than a
    human child. It will never be a proto-dog or anything else. Try and keep
    up!

    Way to miss the forest for the trees there, Sparky.

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ JarredH

    Hey, what do you expect?  If he actually tackled the real point, he might have to try to develop a cogent argument.

  • Anonymous

    A fetus is not a child and you know it.

  • http://mmycomments.blogspot.com/ mmy


     Pro-abortion people deserve no respect

    I, for one, am not pro-abortion I vehemently believe that each woman owns her own body and has the right to determine whether or not she wants to have a completely legal medical procedure.

    So as far as I am concerned the two sides of this debate are anti-allowing women ownership of their own bodies and pro-allowing women ownership of their own bodies.

    And I know which side you are on.

  • Lunch Meat

    For the record, I’m not bitter, either. I love my life. :-) I get to mock trolls on the internet and feel no qualms for it because they’re not demonstrating any qualities that would ever earn any sympathy from me.

    Frank, in addition to hating women, you know nothing about us. I should mention that your feminist caricatures fall terribly flat here and actually rather make us laugh.

  • Anonymous

    Not pro-abortion Frank. You are indeed a liar. Listen – carefully – it is Pro-choice. Stop touting ‘facts’ as proof that we all love killing the babeez.

    When I asked you what you thought of US involvement in the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars … you said you deferred to those with more expertise, as to whether or not this was okay.

    Many real … living … BORN … breathing babies died, just in the initial bombing of Baghdad – one of many events in which babies died.

    But, in that case, you defered to those who knew if it was okay.

    Well, guess what – regarding abortion – I defer to those who know best. I defer to women everywhere to make decisions about their bodies.

    So you aren’t just a liar … you’re a hypocrite. Good work.

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ JarredH

    Really?  So you support government-funded health care for all?  The “children” you’re so worried about will need it.  Their parents will need it to ensure they’re around to care for those “children.”

    What about an increase in minimum wage so families can more easily support those “children” in the coming years?  Affordable housing?  Nutritional assistance?  Affordable access to quality education?

  • http://profiles.google.com/marc.k.mielke Marc Mielke

    It doesn’t matter. Frank’s a troll. And unless I can take his kidney right now to save someone else’s life, he’s a hypocrite. 

  • http://accidental-historian.typepad.com/ Geds

     I would absolutely support free prenatal and postnatal care. We can use
    the money we save from not killing the unborn. Great idea!

    And we can add math comprehension to the list of things you lack.  According to Planned Parenthood the fee for an abortion usually runs about $225-$575, depending on factors.

    A live birth in the United States with minimal complications runs in the thousands of dollars.

  • http://mmycomments.blogspot.com/ mmy


    A human fertilized egg will never develop into anything other than a human child

    Actually it can Frank. Look up Hydatidiform moles.

  • http://accidental-historian.typepad.com/ Geds

     Actually it can Frank. Look up Hydatidiform moles.

    Oooh, man.  It’s really hard to figure out what god’s plan is for a child that’s really nothing more than a blob attached to a placenta.  But the lord does work in mysterious ways, so I’m assuming that it’s also immoral to end one of those pregnancies.  Maybe shapeless-blob-boy will grow up to be the next Jesus.  Or Tim Tebow.

  • Anonymous

    Oh citation please – something with authority. Good grief.

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ JarredH

    So why aren’t you out shooting abortion doctors and rounding up women who have abortions and imprisoning them?

    I mean, these are human lives your allegedly talking about.  Why aren’t you acting like it?

  • Guest

    Back in college, a friend came to me and said his girlfriend was pregnant, and they wanted to know how to get an abortion*. I was still nominally Catholic at the time, and helping them made me uncomfortable. This went against everything I’d been raised to believe. So I did the only thing that felt right. I told them about Planned Parenthood.

    Because it wasn’t my decision to make. I wasn’t the one who would have had to raise a child at a young age. I wasn’t the one who would have to feel pressured into a young marriage, or deal with the family drama of marrying outside my religion (he was Muslim; she was likely Christian considering where she came from).

    That’s what pro-choice means. It doesn’t mean we want everyone to have abortions. I hope she got on birth control afterward so she wouldn’t have to have another one. I can’t imagine they’re pleasant. But it means we leave the decisions up to the individuals involved.

    I wonder if anti-choice people realize that medical experts estimate that almost half of all fertilized eggs are spontaneously aborted by the body, often before the woman even knows she’s pregnant? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002458/ Is it okay if the body does it naturally but not okay if a medical professional helps it along?

    (A part of me often wonders if the people who are so against women deciding what to do with their bodies enjoy sex. Because you’d think if they did, they’d be a little more understanding about why we might want to enjoy it as freely as men do).

    *They both came from countries in which abortion is either illegal or highly restricted, and they likely had never heard of Planned Parenthood, this being pre-Internet.

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ JarredH

    Except, not everyone agrees that the Bible claims you say it does.  In fact, there was a time when conservative evangelicals weren’t so sure.

  • Lunch Meat

    Wow. The troll can’t even read a simple wikipedia article, the first result when you google 
    hydatidiform mole.

    “A complete mole is caused by a single (90%) or two (10%) sperm combining with an egg which has lost its DNA (the sperm then reduplicates forming a “complete” 46 chromosome set) [2] The genotype is typically 46,XX (diploid) due to subsequent mitosis of the fertilizing sperm, but can also be 46,XY (diploid).[2] In contrast, a partial mole occurs when an egg is fertilized by two sperm or by one sperm which reduplicates itself yielding the genotypes of 69,XXY (triploid) or 92,XXXY (quadraploid).[2]“

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ JarredH

    You also expect people to treat you with respect.  But you feel no compunction to do likewise.

    Oh, I know, you don’t think those people deserve your respect.  All that nonsense.  Rules that apply to me, but not to thee.

  • Anonymous

    Bringing up the “fathers rights” just proves yet again that you don’t actually give a shit about the “unborn child” (fetus), and that your real objective is to control women.  The father has nothing to do with whether a fetus is a person (it isn’t).

  • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

    So according to Frank, whom we should of course obey because he is allowed to think things because he has a penis, condoms okay, hormonal birth control not.

    Fred, I have a quibble — kind of a large one — with your line “People can’t be allowed to control themselves.” It’s not all people over whom the anti-choicers, anti-birth control jackasses want to exert control. It’s women. As Frank so aptly demonstrates.

    The guy who sexually harassed me in high school was named Frank. And, while he was not ignorant, playing ignorant in order to slut-shame was something he loved to do. (Note: I didn’t even date until after high school. The only thing slut-shamers look for in a victim is that she’s female.) Let’s see if the thing I said to him that shut him up for a couple months (altered slightly for context) will work on this Frank!

    Frank: we don’t like each other. We are never going to get anywhere interacting with each other. Stop commenting here, and you and everyone else here will have much happier lives. 

  • Anonymous

    Then explain to me why the fetus is a person.  Without citing the Bible, since your anti-choice stance affects everyone, not just Christians.

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ JarredH

    So, how many “unborn babies” have you personally saved by shooting a doctor about to perform an abortion?

  • Guest

    Which means we should also outlaw Viagra (if your god wanted you to have an erection, he would’ve allowed it), cancer treatment, and, well, any man-made medical treatment. We shouldn’t be curing cleft palates; we shouldn’t see if we can prevent Down’s syndrome; we shouldn’t try to cure AIDS or cancer or influenza. Because if you got any of those, it was your god’s choice, and you shouldn’t try to do anything about it.

    Your god’s kind of an ass, isn’t he?

  • Anonymous

    What? So it’s okay, according to your view, if God kills babies. You have got to be kidding! That is not the God of the bible I’ve read. You would actually willingly serve that kind of God? … good grief, I’d run the other way screaming, looking for somewhere to hide from this Christianised version of Cthtulu.

    I’m out … time to sleep and dream of all the babeezs to be killed *mowahahaha*

    Jerk.

  • Anonymous

    This vomitus completely dodged my question.  What, Frank, is a person?  You need to explain why a fetus is a person.

  • Guest

     You…you didn’t actually refute anything I said. Can you?

    (Whose theology should I be learning about? You seem to profess a religion of hate and intolerance and judgement. Which one is that?)

  • Hawker40

    “Act like you expect others to act.”

    Or, perhaps, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”…

  • Anonymous

    P.S. While you are at it: if you were in the hospital, and the only way to save the person next to you is to take one of your kidneys, and you don’t want to give one up, should the government force you to give it up?  Why or why not?

  • http://loosviews.livejournal.com BringTheNoise

     The father does create the child. He does not, however, have to bear any of the risks associated with pregnancy (and there are many) or indeed have anything happen to his body. Why should he have the right to demand someone else risk their life?

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ JarredH

    It’s a serious question.  If you’re oh so concerned about the “mindless slaughter” of all these “unborn babies,” why aren’t you taking the drastic measures that preventing horrible slaughters surely calls for and justifies?

  • Anonymous

    My nick is very telling. Yes … it is actually. When I came out to 4 old friends they raped me. During the course of that event they repeatedly callled me evil … among other things.

    I refused to be ashamed. I refused to let them hand me a definition or who or what I was. I took the word ‘evil’ that they had thrown around as a weapon (ironilically while they themselves DID evil) … I took it and I owned it. I know I am a good person and that being transgender and gay is a part of who I am. They called be evil for those parts, I chose to use they own word to refute their effort to shame me.

    Of course, I know the origins of the word ‘evil’ – and in that light, don’t mind the term.

    As to you presuming to know anything about my nick – to leaping to any kind of ‘cleverness’ without asking me about it first … what can I say but a hearty Fuck Off you cunt!!!!

    Now you can go and grab that moral high ground again and tell all your friends what a rude and terrible lot those baby murdering abortionists are …

  • Anonymous

    You fucking moron, you explained why a fetus is a human life.  That’s not the same goddamned thing as “person.”  You could implant a human mind in a robot body and it would still be a person, because such a construct can love, think, and will.  A fetus can do none of these things until very late in the pregnancy, when most abortions are for emergency medical reasons.

  • http://mmycomments.blogspot.com/ mmy


    So fertilization never successfully took place

    Bzzzz, nope:

    In contrast, a partial mole occurs when an egg is fertilized by two sperm or by one sperm which reduplicates itself yielding the genotypes of 69,XXY (triploid) or 92,XXXY (quadraploid) [added bolding]

    (for a quick down and dirty explanation see Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydatidiform_mole

    Frank– it is never good to take your talking points straight from the flashcards they hand out.

  • Anonymous

    > hyperbole is not serving you well.

    Says the moron who thinks abortion is murder and a blastocyst with fifteen cells is as much a person as (or more of a person than) its thinking mother.

  • Lunch Meat

    A successfully fertilized egg can also develop into a tumor or parasite in/on its twin. Is this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermoid_cyst) a human person? Will it ever be a person?

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ JarredH

    But they’re horrible mass-murderers in your mind!  Surely their death in order to save millions of “unborn babies” is not only justifiable, but necessary, right?

    You’ve been bleating the “55 million slaughtered babies” line this whole time.  Don’t get upset that your hyperbole is now coming back to haunt you.

  • Danielle Custer

    My mistake. I was more interested in Frank’s response anyway.

  • Anonymous

    Why the father should have any fucking say at all if the mother doesn’t want him to once his biological contribution to the process is done is the best question.

  • Lunch Meat

    But they’re horrible mass-murderers in your mind!  Surely their death in order to save millions of “unborn babies” is not only justifiable, but necessary, right?

    Trolling on the internet is so much more productive. I’m sure that very soon now we’re all going to see what terrible people we are, accept Jesus, and start picketing abortion clinics while having as many babies as we possibly can.

    Alternatively, we could each donate a dollar to Planned Parenthood to each new post the troll makes. That would be fun!

  • Guest

     In other words, you can’t refute it.

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ JarredH

    Come on Frank!  They’re slaughtering “unborn babies!”  Stop those awful murderers!  By any means necessary!

    Or don’t you really think of doctors who perform abortions as mass murderers?

  • Madhabmatics

    lol did frank try to do a username burn? Did I go to sleep and wake up in 2001 when username burns were still amusing?

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Oh, folks?

    Aunursa’s SSDD, chronicled for all to enjoy (or giggle at).