Deporting the best and the brightest

Two recent stories that I find equal parts confounding and infuriating.

First, from Raw Story/Reuters, “Miami students rally for valedictorian facing deportation“:

A judge on Monday denied a green card request by Daniela Pelaez, an 18-year-old who was born in Colombia and brought by her parents to the United States when she was four. Her lawyer is appealing the decision.

Pelaez grew up in the Miami area after she and her family overstayed their tourist visas. A high school senior, Pelaez said she has applied to several Ivy League universities.

“I can’t believe this is happening,” Pelaez told Miami’s WSVN Channel 7 TV station. When she heard the judge’s decision, she said, “I thought, what am I going to do in Colombia?”

And Charles Kuffner directs us to the story of Jose Luis Zelaya, as reported by the Houston Chronicle’s Susan Carroll:

That [Jose Luis] Zelaya is an illegal immigrant is no secret.

In April, he stood in a plaza on [the Texas A&M] campus, in the same spot where the elections commission will announce the results … and shared his story of coming to the U.S. illegally at age 14 from Honduras to escape an abusive, alcoholic father.

It was a bold move on one of the nation’s most conservative campuses, where some student leaders have attracted national media attention for vocal opposition to a Texas law that allows certain illegal immigrants to qualify for in-state tuition. But it may not stop Zelaya from becoming the first openly undocumented illegal immigrant to lead the student body at A&M.

Kuffner’s response to Zelaya’s story applies to Daniela Pelaez as well:

What exactly is the public policy rationale for kicking a guy like that out of the country, instead of helping him become a citizen and reaping the benefits of his talent and work ethic? I mean, I don’t know about you, but I’m pretty sure I couldn’t have made my way from Honduras to the US by myself at the age of 14. Yeah, sure, he cut ahead of some people in line. I say that’s more a problem for us to fix than for him to be punished for, but whatever. Fine him some appropriate amount, make him do some community service (I’m going to step out on a limb here and guess that he’s already doing that), have him write 100 times “I will not cross international borders without having all my papers in order”, etc etc etc. But seriously, isn’t Jose Luis Zelaya the kind of person we want in this country?

To the extent that I can discern any argument for not allowing America to benefit from the presence of determined, gifted young people like these two, it seems to be that it would encourage others to “cut in line” by breaking our opaque and labyrinthine immigration laws. So it would create a kind of moral hazard.

But I’m still not seeing the downside. Let’s assume the worst-case scenario this moral-hazard concern imagines — that thousands of other determined, gifted young people come to America, study hard, earn the respect of their peers and their teachers, and commit themselves to benefiting America as their own home.

How would that be a bad thing?

Some more good links on immigration:

Update: Good news — “Miami high school valedictorian avoids deportation

  • twig

    “In top breaking news, US cuts off nose to spite face.”

    Inspector Javert approves.

  • http://www.metagalacticllamas.com/ Triplanetary

    It certainly puts the lie to conservative claims that they’re opposed to illegal immigrants because they won’t learn English and don’t contribute and are criminals and shit. Those are all lies anyway, of course. But when you take a specific example of an illegal immigrant who knows better English than most of the people who are opposed to her presence in the US, worked hard to become highly educated, and wants to work and pay taxes, and they still want to kick her out, it becomes pretty clear that the only common factor among people conservatives want to kick out of the country is their skin color.

  • Nathaniel

     Illegal immigration from Canada, while not as numerous as from Mexico, is still quite common, given our large space of shared borders.

    The fact that no one thinks of probably white Canadian illegal immigrants when discussing this tells you all you need to know about the illegal immigration “debate.”

  • Cathy W

    The DREAM act, which would definitely help Daniela Pelaez, keeps getting defeated in Congress. (Long and short of it: it would allow provisional residency to people in her situation, and allow them to earn permanent residency by completing two years of college or two years of military service within six years.) Next time it gets re-introduced, please urge your congresspeople to support it. 

    And, yeah. In some parts of the northeastern US, the most numerous illegal immigrants are from Ireland. Nobody seems too bothered about them…

  • Anonymous

    The one thing that helps me make sense of why people think immigration policy shouldn’t be relaxed is Star Trek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f0hns2AVW0

    “In the history of many worlds, there have always been disposable creatures.  They do the dirty work.   They do the work that no one else wants to do, because it’s too difficult and too hazardous… you don’t have to think about their welfare, or you don’t think about how they feel. Whole generations of disposable people.”

  • http://kingdomofsharks.wordpress.com/ D Johnston

    I hate it when people talk about “the line.” It’s an inadequate analogy to describe the paranoid bureaucratic nightmare that is the United States immigration progress. I’ve been helping someone get an entry visa (not even a green card, mind you) and it’s been an education. The immigration people will find absolutely any excuse to deny someone’s application. For instance, if someone files for a visa a number of times and keeps getting rejected, eventually he gets classified as an opportunist and all future applications go straight in the trash. However, the same is true if someone in his family has applied repeatedly. I can’t even imagine what one would have to do to get a work permit these days, especially from Latin America (nationality can make it harder).

  • Bardi

    If all they are concerned with is bodies, I can think of a few we could deport in lieu of, starting with the Republican candidates….

  • Ayn Marx 666

    More prejudice in favour of that vile Book Larnin’ stuff…you some kind of Perfessor?

  • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

    I thought of Javert too. Though he was far more honest and less hateful than most anti-immigrant right-wingers.

  • http://dpolicar.livejournal.com/ Dave

    In general, laws ought to be predictable… that is, it should be possible for me, as someone trying to decide whether to perform an act, to reliably predict whether that act is against the law, and what the consequences of violating that law would be.

    That applies as readily to entering another country without paperwork as it does to any other law.

    That said, I’m 100% in favor of having one of the possible predictable consequences of illegal immigration be an evaluation of the immigrant’s current status and the conclusion that they should stay in the country, doing what they’re doing. (And, sure, pay some fines or whatever.)

    And, yes, one of the consequences of that will be an increase in illegal immigration by people who think they can subsequently arrange their lives so as to make that conclusion likely.

    I’m OK with that, for my country at least. (I suspect for other countries as well, but have fewer data.)

  • Anonymous

    But the Republicans would be wrong! Oh, the humanity!

  • Mary Kaye

    About fifteen years ago I hired a Swiss national to do scientific research.  Over the ten years or so he was in my department, we fought with INS six or seven times, and it was horrendous.  They would forget to fill out paperwork on time and suddenly we would be legally unable to pay him.  They would tell him and his wife and two small children they had to show up at the office at 6:00 am but then not see them until 11:00.

    This was for a world-class scientist, someone I could not possibly replace, someone who spoke fluent English (and German and Italian and a couple of other languages), someone who was steadily employed throughout the period and about the legality of whose presence there should have been no doubt whatsoever.

    His wife had enormous difficulty working legally at all.  Conservatives complain about immigrants’ laziness, but actually she was perfectly willing and able to work, she just wasn’t allowed to.

    Also on some visa statuses you cannot leave the country without losing your visa.  Which sucks extremely when your mother dies and you can’t go to her funeral.  It’s flatly inhumane.

    It was horrible.  I have heard other faculty say frankly that INS is a deterrent to hiring non-US citizens as you know you will end up in recurrent fights with the bureaucracy; and probably this is exactly what the people who create and maintain this horrible system want.  But it’s flatly detrimental to US science not to be able to hire good people.  The Europeans can, after all, and they will drain away our scientific talent if we can’t reciprocate.

    It also shows, incidentally, that it’s not just black, brown or yellow foreigners that get abused, though I suspect it would have been even worse if my employee had not been European.  When we held an international conference in the US shortly after 9/11, several of our students failed to get entry visas “for security reasons” including a student from Poland and one from Austria.  The (European) conference organizers swore never to hold it in the US again.  We had better luck *everywhere* else:  Belgium, Finland, Brazil, South Africa (!), Portugal.  The US was the worst.

  • Anonymous

    So often flyover state Americans have been lectured about how mean and awful and bigoted and unfair the United States is.  And yet here here we have another example in which “determined, gifted, young people come to America, study hard, earn the respect of their peers and their teachers,” and who so desperately want to live here rather than any place else in the world.

  • Anonymous

    Can’t say I’m impressed with how flyover country is treating them.

  • http://www.metagalacticllamas.com/ Triplanetary

    They want to live here for economic reasons. Which isn’t to say that economic opportunities here in the US are fantastic, just that they’re even worse in many countries and parts of the world. (Although as industrialized, developed countries go, America’s pretty far down on the list.)

    I assure you, they’re not coming here for our culture.

  • konrad_arflane

    But it’s flatly detrimental to US science not to be able to hire good
    people.  The Europeans can, after all, and they will drain away our
    scientific talent if we can’t reciprocate.

    I wouldn’t worry too much. The general trend in Europe seems to be (certainly *is* in my own country) to make immigration just as labyrinthine as in the US.

    Fun fact: I get to travel quite a bit in my line of work. The top three (non-EU) countries in terms of how complicated it is to get a work visa are the US, Russia and China. The US is no. 1 on the list – Russia and China are troublesome each in their own ways, but the US takes every security measure and annoyance of each of those countries, throws them together, and adds a few of its own.

  • http://kingdomofsharks.wordpress.com/ D Johnston

     “Flyover state Americans”? Pelaez is facing deportation from Florida, a state which has no shortage of immigrants, by the way. Don’t assume that you’re free from sin just because you live on the coast, friend.

  • Lori

    And, yeah. In some parts of the northeastern US, the most numerous illegal immigrants are from Ireland. Nobody seems too bothered about them… 

    This was my first thought. During the anti-brown people flare-up that happened over NAFTA I seem to recall that someone ran the numbers and found that folks from Ireland were the largest single group of illegal immigrants in the country, not just in the NE. As you say, no one was getting all worked up about them. The Irish did their time in the great hazing ritual we call US immigration and now they’re white, so they’re OK.

  • Lori

    So often flyover state Americans have been lectured about how mean and awful and bigoted and unfair the United States is. And yet here here we have another example in which “determined, gifted, young people come to America, study hard, earn the respect of their peers and their teachers,” and who so desperately want to live here rather than any place else in the world.

    Your utter lack of depth of thought would be disturbing if we weren’t all so used to, and painfully bored by, your endless attempts to substitute false gottachas for knowledge or understanding. But whatever, I’ll play.

    Your version of this situation is that these young people prove that flag-waving, American Exceptionalism spouting Right wingers are obviously correct about ‘merica, land of the free. And because these young people are livin’ The Dream the Right wants to do what? Oh yeah—throw them out. Because apparently the brown folks exist just to make Real True Americans feel smug.

    Lovely.

  • konrad_arflane

    Yes, you’re doing really great over there. You’re a better place to live than Honduras (28%unemployment, half the population under the poverty line) and Colombia (where, in case you hadn’t heard, there’s a slow-burning *civil war* going on).

    Don’t kid yourself. The US is still one of the better places in the world to live, I can think of plenty of countries I’d rather live in. And you’re moving in the wrong direction.

  • Lori

    They want to live here for economic reasons. Which isn’t to say that economic opportunities here in the US are fantastic, just that they’re even worse in many countries and parts of the world. (Although as industrialized, developed countries go, America’s pretty far down on the list.)

    I assure you, they’re not coming here for our culture. 

    This is not uniformly true. I’ve known a number of immigrants who came here for reasons that were not economic, or at least not primarily economic.

    As is the case with many of aunursa’s terrible arguments, there’s a tiny bit of truth to his complaint. Folks on the Left in the US compare where we are in this country to where we should be and we’re (totally justifiably) disgusted. We focus on that and forget that there are plenty of people in the world living in places that are culturally, not just economically, worse for them than the US.

    aunursa’s implication that this means the US is super duper is totally wrong to the point of being laughable, but people do come to the US for reasons other than money and being blind to those people serves no good purpose.

  • Tonio

    So many straw men in that statement, I thought I was in a casting call for a Wizard of Oz remake. Your observations about Fred’s Left Behind deconstruction have been thoughtful, which makes your regurgitation of Limbaugh/O’Reilly demagoguery all the more confusing and frustrating.

  • Albanaeon

    (conservative with filter off/)
    But, Fred, your missing the real danger here.  If we just let them in, they may outnumber us white people in absolute terms.  Not only would they probably not vote to continue white people privileges, our worst and most desperate fear may turn out to be true.  Everyone thinks just like us and can’t wait to start oppressing everyone when they become a majority.  Where will your liberal principles be when white people have to live in slums and drink from the other fountain, hmmm?

    And yes, I have heard this sort of thing.  If you can’t imagine their not being a hierarchy, not being near the top of it is a terrifying thing.

  • truth is life

    Really? That would surprise me; Ireland doesn’t really seem to have the population numbers to support a big illegal immigrant population. OTOH, this is perhaps just because I live in Houston, which hardly seems like it would be a major destination port for Irish illegal immigrants, but which has always had a significant Hispanic (and particularly Mexican) population.

  • Giles

    I… find myself agreeing with Ayn Marx 666 here. Does Fred’s proposed amnesty only apply to “determined, gifted” people? If so my worry is not that it would create a “giftedness backdoor” but rather that a certain population of young people is now in the position of “you better pass your exams, else we’re throwing you out of the country”.

  • Lori

    Trends have definitely shifted the last couple decades (Mexicans are now by far the largest group of immigrants without legal status in the US), but we had a lot of illegal immigrants from Ireland at that time. It was relatively easy for them to get visas, because they’re white it was relatively easy for them to overstay those visas and the Irish economy was crap so many of them felt like they had good reason to do so.

    The other thing that I think factors into perceiption is the issue of Hispanic as a group ID. A lot of countries of origin are covered by the notion of Hispanic*.

    *This irritates the ever-loving crap out of a lot of people who get lumped into “Hispanic”. When I lived in LA I used to regularly see people (mostly young men) wearing t-shirts that said “Not Latino. Not Hispanic. Mexican.” and variations on that theme.

  • http://www.metagalacticllamas.com/ Triplanetary

    I mean, I guess in theory I can imagine America offering something culturally to GLBTQ people or those of other minorities who live in countries where they face worse bigotry than in the US. But I can’t say as I’ve ever met an immigrant (and I’ve met a fair number of them, but I’d be pretty presumptuous to imagine that my experience is in any way broad enough to make any generalizations from) who thought the American way of life was super awesome compared to their native country’s, except in terms of material comfort.

  • Apocalypse Review

    What’s amazing is how massive this sheer wall of bile is that’s being directed at the omgillegals. It’s like white people in the USA desperately want someone else to shit all over and will gladly do it on Pavlov’s whistle.

    It’s like that one person said: you can tell some poor white people in the USA that taking the food out of their own kid’s mouth will keep a non-white from doing thing X, and they’ll gladly do this counterproductive thing because they’ve been told all their lives that being white makes them real Americans.

  • http://deird1.dreamwidth.org Deird

    aunursa, I wouldn’t live in the US if you paid me.

    (No offence to USians intended. I’m just rather fond of other parts of the world, and consider the cons of the US to outweigh the pros.)

  • http://www.metagalacticllamas.com/ Triplanetary

    Would this be unreasonable? It would be very difficult for me, as an America, to immigrate to pretty much any other country. Americans in their exceptionalism tend to assume that any other country in the world would just LOVE to have them (hence the harumphs of “I’m moving to Canada,” as if this is easy or a decision you can make on a whim). But it ain’t so. If I tried to apply for permanent residency in Canada, Germany, the UK, New Zealand – hell, anywhere – I would have to prove that I have skills that are valuable to them, and their standards tend to be rigorous.

    Now, I don’t think you should have to be a nuclear physicist or something to come to America. I think absolutely everyone who wants to work and/or study should be allowed in, and that covers 99% of immigrants. Contrary to Glenn Beck’s fantasies, they’re not crossing the border illegally to rape our white women.

    In which case our focus should be on providing educational and employment opportunities to anyone who wants them, a standard we fall short of even for our own citizens, so basically this is all a pipe dream anyway.

  • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

    The Wages of Whiteness by David R. Roediger explains the roots of this issue quite well. (It’s only got a 3-star rating on amazon because of people who claim stuff like “it’s racist against white men.” Insert double face-palming Picard here.)

  • Anonymous

    But it’s flatly detrimental to US science not to be able to hire good people.  The Europeans can, after all, and they will drain away our scientific talent if we can’t reciprocate.

    As a postdoc in the sciences, I would have to disagree. At least at my level, the system is *too* full of international workers — in large part because the salary is terrible for the skill level that people are hiring at.

    And, for the record, the EU seems to have a stricter hiring policy than the US: a lot of funded positions, from what I’ve been told, stipulate that an EU citizen has to be hired if they’re qualified.

  • Tonio

    From my reading, Fred wasn’t proposing amnesty, but asking how this specific type would be a bad thing.

    I’ve often said that people truly interested in reducing illegal immigration should focus enforcement not on the immigrants but on the employers who hire them, partly because of the horrid exploitation involved. It’s the same pragmatic principle as the reduction of abortions by providing women with the tools to take control of their sexuality. Naturally, opponents on both issues are more interested in punitive approaches that preserve their own privilege.

  • guest

    They want to live here because this is where they’re from.  For children in this situation residence in the USA was not a conscious choice on their part.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Charity-Brighton/100002974813787 Charity Brighton

    I think that’s what Lori meant, Triplanetary. Under federal guidelines, gay, lesbian, intersex, and transgendered people are eligible to apply for asylum in the United States if they live in a country where they are persecuted or attacked.

    While the United States has a long way to go in LGBT rights, for asylum-seekers from places like Jamaica it’s definitely an option. There’s an organization called Immigration Equality that works with people in these conditions while seeking asylum.

  • ako

    I have heard a disturbing number of people openly go off about how, if we don’t crack down on immigration, while people will be outnumbered, which will be a Dire Fate in some way.

  • Lori

     

    I mean, I guess in theory I can imagine America offering something
    culturally to GLBTQ people or those of other minorities who live in
    countries where they face worse bigotry than in the US. But I can’t say
    as I’ve ever met an immigrant (and I’ve met a fair number of them, but
    I’d be pretty presumptuous to imagine that my experience is in any way
    broad enough to make any generalizations from) who thought the American
    way of life was super awesome compared to their native country’s, except
    in terms of material comfort. 

    Really? None? You’ve never talked to a woman who moved here from a very conservative country? You’ve never talked to a man who moved here from a country with a very traditional culture who just didn’t “fit” it?  You don’t know anyone who left their home country because of massive political unrest? We’ve clearly known different types of immigrants.

    Yes, many people come here solely or mostly for economic opportunity but the majority of the immigrants I’ve knows weren’t that money-focused. And that includes the warehouse workers I knew in LA who were sending 50% or more of their pay home to their family in Mexico. 

  • http://loosviews.livejournal.com BringTheNoise

     Yeah, I’m sure Jose Luis Zelaya choose to go to America based solely on how great it is and it had nothing to do with which countries he could feasibly get to from Honduras at age 14…

  • Anonymous

    And yet here here we have another example in which “determined, gifted, young people come to America, study hard, earn the respect of their peers and their teachers,” and who so desperately want to live here rather than any place else in the world.

    “…but what those whiny liberals don’t want you to know is that living in the US is usually much better than being a dirt-poor, self-employed 14-year-old in Honduras who gets regularly beaten by their alcoholic dad!”

    Remember Fred’s post about the Not As Bad As Defense?  Reread, please.

  • gocart mozart

    She should still apply to an Ivy League school.  Maybe she can get a student visa. 

  • gocart mozart

    There is a melonin deficiancy exception to the immigration laws.

  • gocart mozart

    They should be deported back to their home planets.  I think RMoney is actually a Cylon.  Wake up SHEEPLE!

  • ScientistToo

     I don’t know that post-doc salary is great anywhere.  That’s kind of the whole point of the apprentice system- you get a modest salary in exchange for additional training.  I spent a few months in Denmark… grad students made more than US grad students, but my (us) post-doc salary was higher than theirs.  (I was making NIH scale.)

    But I think the more relevant point is that the US tax payers are (in general) paying for this training (salary+ maybe tuition).  My salary (except for the first 1.5 years of grad school) has been paid for by federal grants obtained by my adviser.  This is not an insignificant amount… I’m now a worker in the US and so the economy is getting the benefit of this training.  But foreign students and post-doc who can’t get jobs here because of immigration quotas go home.  The US tax payer just spent, say, 300 K to train a scientist for India or China (assuming 10 years here (grad + postdoc) at 30 K a year).  Then, pharma or whoever, has a nice educated workforce when they outsource to India… doubling the damage to our economy.

    I’m not sure EU style protectionism is the answer.  I think smart, motivated people should be able to get citizenship here if that is what they want.

  • Anonymous

    I think smart, motivated people should be able to get citizenship here if that is what they want.

    That’s where we disagree, then.

    The problem is not that we’re paying to educate people who then move to China: it’s that we’ve set up a system that is *designed* to educate foreign students because native students can’t, for various reasons, manage the system.

    Postdocs these days aren’t “additional training” — they’re basically a make-work position to use up the surplus population of Ph.D.s. They used to be a place where the brightest would prove themselves before getting a professorship, but these days they’re just another way that people can waste several years of their life at a salary far lower than that which should be payed to someone who has gone through *twenty* years of training (and has undoubtably accumulated a fair amount in debt) — basically, because there’s no one around who is willing to hire them.

    We’re producing far too many Ph.D.s already. The problem isn’t that companies don’t have a large enough pool of talent to hire from — the problem is that they’re not interested in hiring American workers. Most of the foreign postdocs who are here wouldn’t be able to stay in the US even if that were an option — there are very few jobs in the sciences here, relative to the number that are available in Asia. The fact that US policy has led to us training the very people to whom jobs are being outsourced just adds insult to injury.

  • http://blog.trenchcoatsoft.com Ross

    They should be deported back to their home planets.  I think RMoney is actually a Cylon.  Wake up SHEEPLE!

    You fool! If you wake the Sheeple, none shall ‘scape their wrath!

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Unless the USA gets single-payer health insurance I’d rather go to a EU nation, or Oz or NZ.

  • ScientistToo

    I’m not fond of the phd/post-doc system (understatement of the year), but I don’t see why denying other people citizenship helps us or changes the system.  I think it has actively led to our situation, as I mentioned in the my first reply.  I don’t think post-docs are make work; in many cases they are an exploitative system designed to advance the big guys more for a minimal amount of money.  In the best cases, they are an apprenticeship where you can learn a bit more. 

    As to your statement “there are very few jobs in the sciences here, relative to the number that are available in Asia”- I completely agree.  Because we have trained the world.  Companies outsource to Asia because they know they can find well-educated (mostly American trained) scientists.  Now there is a situation where it is hard to get a job in the US because so many companies have moved.  Or they won’t hire full-time, instead as contract worker, because they can use outsourcing as a threat.  If they couldn’t find workers, they wouldn’t have done so.  But they can, because we spend massive amounts of money training foreign citizens and then kicking them out.  If we had let them stay here we wouldn’t have gutted so many science based industries.  And we would have a deeper talent pool, and happier people in general.

    Let me repeat- I’m not happy with the situation.  I wouldn’t recommend that any one follow my educational path, should I be asked.  What we were promised in reward for years of effort isn’t what we got.  I made massive sacrifices and I didn’t get the reward.  (Money isn’t the issue for me, time is.  In my area, I always though money was reasonable.  But those years spending every waking hours in lab rather than building a life… wouldn’t do that again if I could redo)  The amount of anger I have at the system is immense, but I still don’t see why denying the best and brightest the chance to stay here fixes anything.

    Anyway,  I have a feeling that we’ll have to agree to disagree.  (Hey, but your posts lured me out of (2 years+) lurking… first post here ever!) 

  • Anonymous

    The amount of anger I have at the system is immense, but I still don’t see why denying the best and brightest the chance to stay here fixes anything.

    Because we shouldn’t be recruiting them in the first place. The only way to solve this problem is to *stop* paying to train the world. I don’t care what happens to the people who come through the system: I don’t think they should be allowed *in*. I think that if the American system can’t pay enough money to compete with the other options available for people in the first world, then we should be paying more — and offering better benefits and cutting hours and doing everything else that should be done if we wanted to recruit people on the “free market.”

    And yes, this may sound bigoted. But we’ve been throwing our money away for decades — and we’ve got politicians repeating lies about the problem we’re facing. We don’t *need* any more bright people moving here. We’ve got plenty of bright individuals who live here who are already unemployed.

    But all of this is beside the point: My original comment was in response to the often-repeated lie that the level of US competition is driven down by the fact that we’re not able to recruit the best (pre-educated) talent from elsewhere. Every other country has policies that do the same, except *better* — and China’s low wages are essentially a form of protectionism. The US is the only country (so far as I can tell) that’s decided to self-crucify on the cross of eliminating barriers.

  • Anonymous

    And welcome!

  • P J Evans

     There are illegal immigrants from Europe. People don’t think of them as illegal, because they’re more or less white and they speak English well enough to not be conspicuous. Whereas there are legal immigrants from Latin America – and people who were born here – who have trouble with English, and they’re looked at as being ‘not us’. even though theyare


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