On Christianity and marriage equality (part 1)

While I was off watching lots of exciting rugby, many smart people were writing about the fight for marriage equality and full civil rights for LGBT people and, specifically, the role of American Christianity in that struggle.

Here are several smart recent posts on the topic.

Bert Montgomery:The Church and the New Civil Rights Movement

We are in the midst of another renewal; we are in the midst of another set of leaders pleading with the guardians of the Christian establishment to open the life of the church to the power of the Holy Spirit already at work; and some of the same words are being exchanged and variations of the same expressions of hatred are emerging in response.

There are a growing number of “gay churches” and welcoming and affirming groups pleading with the larger Christian community to recognize the movement of the Holy Spirit among the Gay & Lesbian community. And, many of the long-standing institutionalized “straight churches” are actively resisting the work of God among those whom the religious guardians insist are not worthy.

Joseph War III:Can We Trust Christians? A Question for LGBT People and Straight Allies

Homophobic Christian culture is fueled by two sources: homophobic and conflicted people. But both of these groups can change. Rather than discount out of hand people who are either quietly conflicted or loudly hateful, we need to continue to challenge them on spiritual and moral terms, but terms that support faith and LGBT equality going hand-in-hand.

Conflicted people of faith along with already LGBT-supportive Christians have the power to eradicate homophobic Christianity. If for no other reason, this is why we must support “conflicted” individuals as they journey towards LGBT equality. Just as President Obama needed to “evolve” on this issue, so will countless others. Our support of this process is essential for true change to occur.

Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite:Obama gets better: Faith, family and LGBT equality

This is how people evolve on LGBT equality. You ask yourself whether your faith supports prejudice, or the love of God and neighbor. You know family and friends who are LGBT and your love and friendship for them is unchanged, or sometimes even becomes even stronger as you realize how they are discriminated against.

And if you are a person of decency and courage, you become a vocal ally.

Dianne E. Anderson:What Are We Really Asking?

It is impossible to affirm for a homosexual friend that they are human and yet insist that their desires, their attractions, their longings – a large part of their being – are sinful and an affront to God. If I am to affirm that my own sexuality is an intertwined part of me, a vital building block in the created order that is my being, then I must do the same for those friends and neighbors who are gay.

Many churches skirt around this issue of identity by insisting that it is merely the act of homosexuality that is sinful, and therefore, you can be gay, if you just refrain from ever acting on it.

This, too, is incoherent, for what is “acting on it”? Surely it cannot simply be the act of one being engaged in sexual activity with another, because I do not have to have sex in order to “act” on my heterosexuality.

Jimmy Spencer Jr.:Let Them Eat Cake

I realize as I’m watching current events unfold that it’s difficult for a segment of Christians to recognize this because we’ve become so entrenched that we own the exclusive right to dictate terms to others in our society, and anyone who challenges this exclusive right is obviously oppressing us! We’re uncomfortably comfortable demanding other faiths, oriented people, races, and genders obey our specific personal brands of Jesus, which sadly, violates the very pattern of humanity Jesus shows us.

… We’re all witnessing, before our very eyes, those days racing toward a very swift culmination. The days when Christians dictate all the terms of engagement in society by crafting all the laws to reflect our specific spiritual practices are coming to a quick end.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chrisalgoo Chris Algoo

    The Jimmy Spencer article has a great comments section! It’s got several Real True Christians who Really Know what Christianity is All About. There’s someone quoting Mark Driscoll, and another person who says that Universalist churches are a sign of the End Times. Truly a wonderful place.  (There are also some decent people)

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    The thing that still gets up my nose is Joe Biden had to publicly claim (at least) to apologize to Obama for jumping the gun on expressing the morally correct response to the question of same-sex marriage.

  • Daughter
  • Daughter

     I share these videos because several of my high school Facebook friends are sharing them. I have to say, I am very impressed by the progressive spirit of the friends I grew up with. We grew up in the ’70s and ’80s in a swing state (Ohio), and most of the kids I knew growing up were very religious. Many still are, from things they share on Facebook.  Yet every one of my high school friends who comments on the topic comes down squarely on the side of marriage equality. It’s not just following the crowd either, because there are people commenting on these these threads that are anti-marriage equality.

    FYI, the Rev. Otis Moss in the second video succeeded Jeremiah Wright at Trinity UCC, and he is one of the kids I grew up with.

  • Daughter

     E.g., here is a friend I’ve known since kindergarten:

    ” The compromise that your friend suggests amounts to the “separate but equal” nonsense that was offered to Blacks….we don’t want
    you in our schools or neighborhood so we will improve your school and
    we “the majority” will decide what that model will be. A civil union is
    not and will never be marriage…marriage is marriage. You are still
    trying to separate a group of people by offering them less than the real
    thing and you making all the decision for YOU to be comfortable. My
    final note on this is that Gay Marriage in this country WILL happen. You
    can take that to the bank. And it will not happen based on a popular
    vote as it shouldn’t. The debate really should focus on WHEN. So
    Christians get ready……you can pray on this until the cows come
    home….but you will loose on this one. Because the CORRECT document
    will be used in the decision…the Constitution and not the Bible. On a
    positive note I can guarantee you the world will not end, your children
    will not turn gay, your church will not be required to marry gay people,
    your personal marriage will not be affected, life will go on as normal.
    It is my hope that the understanding Christians that “get it” continue
    to work with their brethren to let them know this issue isn’t about you,
    isn’t about religion, and isn’t about the word of God. I am a Christian
    but I have no right to deny a group of people rights who don’t share
    what I believe.”

  • Froborr

    They opened a new church next to MLK Library (DC’s big downtown public library). We noticed it had a rainbow flag in the window above a sign reading “We Welcome ALL People of Good Heart.” Definitely brightened up my day a bit.

  • http://stealingcommas.blogspot.com/ chris the cynic


    I can’t even remember who Jimmy Carter’s, LBJ’s, Truman’s, Eisenhower’s or most of FDR’s Vice-Presidents were.

    For most of them, no idea, but for LBJ Hubert Humphrey.

    (Yes, it does appear that someone videotaped a record being played.)

    [Added:]
    And on reflection I remembered that Nixon was VP under Ike, but for the most part Vice Presidents seem to have been forgettable if they didn’t have songs written about them being forgotten.

  • Daughter

    In most cases, the VP succeeded or ran for president following his running mate. So FDR’s last VP was Truman; Carter’s was Mondale, who ran for president against Reagan in 1980; Eisenhower’s was Nixon, who ran against JFK in 1960. I have no idea who Truman’s VP was.

  • http://blog.trenchcoatsoft.com Ross

    Ahem: 
    The Presbyterian Church’s Northern California governing body refused to rebuke a retired minister for marrying gays and lesbians when it was legal in California.

    The Presbytery of the Redwoods, which governs churches from the Golden Gate Bridge to the Oregon border, voted 74 to 18 Tuesday to reject the church’s official denunciation and instead support the Rev. Jane Adams Spahr, who had been found guilty by an ecclesiastical court of violating the Presbyterian Constitution and her ordination vows for marrying 16 same-sex couples.

    Church officials said they believe that never before in the history of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) has a presbytery defied the wishes of its highest court in this fashion.

    That is all.

  • Keulan

    I really liked Dianne Anderson’s article. She’s right when she says that asking someone to not act on their sexuality isn’t just about no having sex. It’s asking them to never even date someone they love, but instead to live their life alone and celibate, with no love life whatsoever. “Love the sinner, hate the sin” isn’t so loving at all.

  • Victor

    ((( I am a Christianbut I have no right to deny a group of people rights who don’t share what I believe.”)))

    (((“Love the sinner, hate the sin” isn’t so loving at all.)))

    Most people who think they know me would probably call me a “Bigot” as far as same-sex-marriage is concerned but me, myself and i including my soul and my spirit know that ”I’M” not against people of various sex as long as they keep “IT” to themselves. Long story short, The Fight is between God and their gods and “I” don’t care what any religion says, we humans have no right to tell God what He can and/or can’t do?

    So what do you think sinner vic?

    Seeing you asked me Victor and me being a god and having a LOT of alien god followers who are very powerful indeed, ”I” simply want to say that you don’t stand a chance against U>S (usual sinners) and you know “IT” and that’s why you said that you will be wearing your ring around your neck and give gays and lesbian the finger when “IT” is made compleletly official. You see Victor! None of these Christian are willing to fight against US and between you and me science will back “IT” UP for U>S that your so call God does not really exist so Salvage what you can. Victor! Victor! Victor!  ”I” could go on and on, on fire, butt “I’ll” stop NOW!

    You’re crazy sinner vic cause you forgot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk_(film) and
    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=The+Avengers+trailor&view=detail&mid=E2B75CC1FA1D100B880CE2B75CC1FA1D100B880C&first=0&qpvt=The+Avengers+trailor

    Just Marvelous! :)

    Peace

  • Frank

    Scotus will uphold the unique social construct of male-female marriage. Count on it!

  • Persephone

     Unless you are clairvoyant, you really have no reason to sound so certain of this. What’s your reasoning?

  • Victor

    (((Frank  >> Scotus will uphold the unique social construct of male-female marriage. Count on it!)))

    ((( Persephone >> Unless you are clairvoyant, you really have no reason to sound so certain of this. What’s your reasoning?)))

    Before “I” take out my crystal ball, I have to know which Scotus we talking about! http://www.iep.utm.edu/scotus/ or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States ?

    Listen sinner vic! If me, myself and i are not around to lend a hand in this “D” Bait, please remember that contrary to you some of Victor’s  reality flesh cells do have a  life to live! :)

    Peace be with ya!

  • Persephone

    What in the world am I reading?

  • Tricksterson

    Okay, you got me on Trumman and on FDR except for Truman and Wallace, But Carter:  Walter Mondale, LBJ:  Hubert Humphrey:  Eisenhower:  Richard Nixon  Of course that could be because I’m probably older than you are.

  • Tricksterson

    Ah, St. Tom, a true genius.

  • Tricksterson

    This post has left me thoroughly confused.  I hope that was intentional.

  • Tricksterson

    Not sure but i think someone is trolling our Franktroll.

  • Turcano

     ”Love the sinner, hate the sin” usually boils down to “I’m going to say/do something really hateful, but it would be really awesome if you didn’t take it personally.”

  • AnonymousSam

    “Love the sinner, hate the sin” usually seems to turn into “I forgive all your trespasses, but not to the extent to which I would be forced to concede that it’s none of my business to tell you not to perform them. That’s why, while claiming to love you, I’m going to do my utmost to ensure that you are as unhappy as I can possibly make you. :)”

    Reminds me a bit too much of Old Testament God:

    And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.