With a wide open country in my eyes

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(If these guys are going to keep this up, then Bill really needs to learn the sax solo for “Jungleland.”)

“I don’t think any of the people I write about would punch an old lady in the face, but they would inflict the same level of harm when they are abstracted away from the outcomes of their actions.”

It is better to do good to the undeserving for the sake of the deserving, than by guarding against those that are less good to fail to meet in with the good.”

“For one thing, making money is easy, knowing what to do with it is hard. And you don’t know spit unless you know why you should practice the classical virtue of generosity.”

“Money, in short, allows us to hoard. Someone with a million forks is clearly insane. But someone with a million dollars?”

A hard core of white evangelical adults continues to insist that religion drive political rhetoric. If the current trend continues, they will find themselves even more at odds with the American public.”

“[American Center for Law & Justice] will not comment further on this personnel matter.”

“While it is unclear whether the men are at the age of consent or old enough to consume alcohol, it appears that Henderson provided them with alcohol and marijuana.”

“Calling [Rep. Scott] DesJarlais a hypocrite is a fun way to spend an afternoon, but the sordid tale’s real value is in demonstrating what’s really going on with the anti-abortion movement.”

Political leadership ought to be … reserved for the hands of males.”

“We’ve become used to the idea of lunatic fringe attacks … but this one was complete misrepresentation.”

I’m going to end this interview now because that’s just not true. Mr. Fischer, uh, thanks for sharing your views, I guess.”

“It’s like saying the Moon is made of cheese and calling it a ‘dairy issue’ — evidence that the Moon is made of Moon and not of gouda might be inconvenient for gouda enthusiasts, but that doesn’t mean we’re being rude to the goudists by pointing out they’re being dumb.”

“I believe he has ideas about becoming a Scientist; on his present showing this is quite ridiculous.”

“It ought to be possible find art and music and styles of worship that reflect the best of culture, and not the best of another culture that was meaningful to another time, and not the worst of our contemporary culture.”

“He had watched attentively as the woman made her way across the ice, and he was preparing to seize her when, he later admitted to a local abolitionist, he heard her baby whimper and something unexpectedly moved inside him.”

Academic Men Explain Things to Me

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    Kaleberg – thrift is a virtue  wether it’s the top or bottom 1%. It’s always wise to live within your means.

    Hmm. Moral philosophy question: is something still a virtue if it’s ridiculously easy to do–so easy that it requires effectively no moral effort?

    Frex, I don’t gamble. I see no attraction in it; in fact, I find the idea off-putting. Gambling would involve me doing something I have an active distaste for. Is it virtuous that I don’t gamble? I don’t think it is. I think it’s virtuous that my friend who is drawn to gambling strives not to gamble because of the negative effects it has on him and his family. This takes some moral effort on his part; it takes none on my part. I think in his circumstances he’s being virtuous whereas in mine I’m being morally neutral.

    The point of this is: it’s really bloody easy to live within your means when you’re rich. I live within my means without batting an eyelid, and I’m in the top 15% with two households to support. I practice thrift because it’s a good idea and I’m already in the habit. But I don’t think doing so is a virtue.

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    and I’m not an education expert, believe it or not, but it’s pretty clear private schools do a better job than public schools if only because they can afford the best teachers and materials

    I do believe it.

    Citation, please, because “it’s pretty clear” is not evidence.

    Finland has the best school system in the world, which coincidently is almost entirely public.

  • Daughter

     The IRS helps poor people and seniors even more directly. They fund thousands of free tax clinics around the U.S. where low income households and seniors can get their taxes done for free, which often (especially due to the Earned Income Tax Credit, which often exceeds the tax burden), results in a tax refund for those individuals. So the IRS is directly putting money in an envelope and sending it to a lot of poor people.

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    daughter – They would do that regardless of the level of taxation among the rich.  and I don’t know many poor people who are big fans of the IRS
     
    Sgt peppers- right so a school with better teachers and better materials will perform better than one with worse teachers and worse materials.  If you live in a rich town you are likely to have a decent  public school.  If not you are condemend to a crappier one. No one is condemned to a crappy private school.

    Neutrino-  so you feel leBron james who gets paid some crazy sum, has had wealth re directed to him and we should take some of his money and spend it on stuff beaurocrats dream up so it’s circulating?

  • EllieMurasaki

    No one is condemned to a crappy private school.

    Bet?

    My experience was that we realized Mercy Cross was crappy and my parents moved me back to Biloxi public schools. But some parents do not consider public schools an option. Even in Biloxi Fucking Mississippi, public school ninth grade biology had a unit on evolution. Also a unit on anatomy including both reproductive systems, which I remember mostly because the teacher gave us a heads up the previous day so we could get the immature giggling over with before she tried to teach us anything.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    You are not fit to breathe the same air as John Maynard Keynes. Shoo.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jrandyowens Randy Owens

    and [sic] I don’t know many poor people who are big fans of the IRS[.]

    Pay no attention to the enormous anti-tax propaganda behind the curtain.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    I’d be surprised if he even knew any poor people at all. Libertarians like him all fantasize they’re Donald freakin’ Trump.

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    John Meynard Keynes died a long time ago. His terrible ideas were largely discredited by the stag flation of the 70′s, which Keynesian economics had no answer for.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Actually, Keynesian economists were well-aware of the concept, and called it a “price-wage spiral” as far back as the 1950s when analyzing wage and price controls for the Korean War.

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    neutrino- Phillips Curve

  • EllieMurasaki

    Since we have demonstrated the simultaneous existence of high unemployment and high inflation, surely it is possible to achieve simultaneous existence of low unemployment and low inflation.

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    You know that if everyone went to private schools then what you’d have is an extremely expensive public school system? The only systemic benefit of private schools is that they screen out the riffraff. If they had to start excepting all the plebs every advantage they have would disappear.

    Why do you want to make a system vastly more expensive?

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    People like Milton Friedman, whose policies you would love (since he founded the monetarist school), repudiated at least part of the Phillips Curve theory, claiming the NAIRU concept.

    It has since been found that it is actually a rather amorphous and not ‘hard and fast’ thing, as evidenced by Alan Greenspan letting unemployment in the USA hit 3,8% without inflation taking off like a rocket.

  • EllieMurasaki

    Would everybody in private school be more expensive, or would it just shift who’s paying? I don’t know what average private-school tuition is or how much various levels of government spend on average per public school student.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    The idea of a universal private-school system sounds to me like it would just defeat the purpose.

    Private school carries a lot of cachet with parents because of:

    1. The perception of exclusivity.
    2. The fact that they pay lots of $$$, perceiving a better education arising from that.
    3. In particular for private schools in which politically and economically powerful people send their kids to, the “soft power” of interpersonal connections among the next generation cannot be overlooked.

    In short, parents can, if they can afford it, help their children only if the private school remains a subset of the public system or if there is wide differentiation among the available private schools.

    The obvious answer is to have well-funded and provisioned public schools as a societal goal and measure of progress so that what you know and not who you happened to bunk in with gets you ahead in life.

  • EllieMurasaki

    Good points all. I hadn’t thought past ‘ensuring every kid gets an education that is at least decent’.

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    Ellie – absolutely. economic growth doesn’t cause inflation.

    neutrino- I’m familiar with the policies of Milton Friedman. There are substantial differences between the Chicago school and Austrian school. That system sounds silly. chits?

    If we completely eliminated public schools and ended up devoting more resources to our schooling I think that would be appropriate.  the system has been set up in such a way that education is a minor cost without much resources put towards it. Same with food, feed the cows corn even though it makes them unhealthy and fat and they prefer grass. put a billion chickens in a room and see how bad you can make it and still turn a profit.  We can create this ersatz America where we have a shadow of what we could have and the rest of our wealth gets sucked out for military adventures and so forth.

    I’d rather spend extra money on higher quality education and food than most other things.   real beef, real vegatables. Why go cheapsies on important stuff. Would you fly on a plastic fixer upper airplane?

    schools are a bit of a tougher question thuogh because there are many excellent public schools and many terrible ones.  community involvement blah blahb blah just want to say I hated the presidential debate. it was like watching a debate in the Roman Empire right before it fell.  The pandering to Israel was off the charts

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    I’m basing my comment on my knowledge of the Australian data, in which total per student expenditure is higher for private schools than public schools.

    We have an unusually high percentage of students enrolled at private schools, which governments also considerably subsidise, so I can’t say how representative our funding experience is of the international picture.

    Personally, I would like to see the subsidy for private schools reduced and redirected to public schools. I want an excellent public school system that is accessible for everyone, and if someone chooses to opt out then that’s fine but they bear the financial cost of their choice. Same principle for health care too, for that matter. We have a bastardised system where there’s a public option but we also massively subsidise people who want something different.

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    If we completely eliminated public schools and ended up devoting more resources to our schooling I think that would be appropriate.

    How exactly are you devoting more resources to schooling after you’ve abolished public education?

    the system has been set up in such a way that education is a minor cost without much (sic.) resources put towards it.

    Actually, in adjusted dollars the US spends more per student than any other OECD country–about 70% above the average. Education accounts for around one in eight dollars of public expenditure in the US.

    And yet for all that expense you get bad results. The problem is clearly not how much you spend but how you spend it. What is unusual about the US system compared to all those countries that get better results for less money?

    [Hint: we see this pattern with what I shall generously call your health care, too]

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    “How exactly are you devoting more resources to schooling after you’ve abolished public education?”

    more of our personal budgets

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    *Karate headdesk reverb*

  • Beroli

     Of course, it’s abundantly obvious that whenever you say “we,” you mean “the tiny group of people who are rich enough not to be utterly screwed over should my monstrous wishes be enacted.”

  • EllieMurasaki

    Actually, in adjusted dollars the US spends more per student than any other OECD country–about 70% above the average. Education accounts for around one in eight dollars of public expenditure in the US.

    Seriously?

    *fact-checks* Seriously. Wow.

    Not the same root cause, though. The right wing thinks and is willing to say out loud that health care ought to be a privilege. I have never heard anyone say education ought to be a privilege, though I suspect some people believe it; I’ve just heard lots of folk complaining about the things Them Liberals have the nerve to [want to] teach Our Kids.

  • EllieMurasaki

    “How exactly are you devoting more resources to schooling after you’ve abolished public education?”

    more of our personal budgets

    Yeah, that’s not going to make education harder to attain for people with low family incomes AT ALL.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jrandyowens Randy Owens

    I have never heard anyone say education ought to be a privilege, though I suspect some people believe it….

    Kind of funny, seeing you say this right after reading “more of our personal budgets[.]“

  • EllieMurasaki

    Chris Hadrick hasn’t out and out said that people who can’t afford education shouldn’t be educated, though. People have definitely said that people who can’t afford health care should suffer.

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    more of our personal budgets

    And how will you make that happen?

    You know that the US has one of the highest private expenditures on education in the world already, right? That doesn’t seem to be helping.

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    Beroli= They’re being ripped off now.  Everyone has to send thousands of dollars to washington and unless they are really well off, have to send their kids to public schools and just hope it’s one of the good ones.

    Ellie= health care and education are privileges.  I’m saying it.

  • EllieMurasaki

    Ellie= health care and education are privileges. I’m saying it.
    Fuck you. And cross your fingers that you never find yourself needing health care and unable to afford it, or with children who need education you can’t pay for.

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    There are no rights. It’s the  law of the jungle

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    The guy’s signed up to an evil ideology. It’s no secret. My working assumption is that he’s a child who may yet grow out of being an ignoranus*.

    *Someone who is both stupid and an arsehole, with credit to the Washington Post neologism contest.

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    Anarchy

  • EllieMurasaki

    Yeah, but there was still the faint hope that he’d consider it to be a step too far to deny education to children of poor parents on the grounds that the parents are poor. If for no other reason than that if he’s going to insist that people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps, his conscience should rebel at denying some people boots.

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    I wouldn’t deny education to anybody. I think everyone should have excellent education. wether they can afford to hae stephan hawkins teach their kid science or need to rely on charity.  school for everyone

  • EllieMurasaki

    Actually, you know what this reminds me of? (Helps that the thing in question just came up on shuffle.)

    Nothing is an accident
    We are free to have it all
    We are what we want to be
    It’s in ourselves to rise or fall

    Of course, Radames doesn’t entirely buy that himself, as his next couple lines show. And while I haven’t actually seen Aida, just listened to the soundtrack a hundred times, I get the distinct impression that by the end of the musical, Radames doesn’t buy that attitude at all. Falling in love with someone who’d be queen of Nubia if Egypt hadn’t come with more spears than Nubia could muster probably taught him that sometimes one’s life is outside one’s own personal control.

  • EllieMurasaki

    Education should be a privilege…that everyone should enjoy.

    Why don’t you go think about that for a bit.

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    I will.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Chris Hadrick:

    You want education for everyone…

    to be paid for from the pockets of those who may not have enough to cover their kid’s K-12.

    Good god, you’re such a huge blockheaded dumbass.

    How the fuck you continue breathing is beyond me.

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    Tomorrow is the 50th anniversary of John Steinbeck being added to the list of Nobel laureates. With that in mind,

    Beside them, little pot-bellied men in light suits and panama hats; clean, pink men with puzzled, worried eyes, with restless eyes. Worried because formulas do not work; hungry for security and yet sensing its disappearance from the earth. In their lapels the insignia of lodges and service clubs, places where they can go and, by a weight of numbers of little worried men, reassure themselves that business is noble and not the curious ritualized thievery they know it is; that business men are intelligent in spite of the records of their stupidity; that they are kind and charitable in spite of the principles of sound business; that their lives are rich instead of the thin tiresome routines they know; and that a time is coming when they will not be afraid any more.

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    I’m a pragmatist too though

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    I shudder to imagine your idea of ‘pragmatism’. Does it mean just banning slavery so your Libertopia doesn’t get too bad for the poor?

  • EllieMurasaki

    Since you have no apparent idea what ‘privilege’ means, I doubt you know what ‘pragmatist’ means either. Let me explain:

    ‘Privilege’ refers to a thing that some people have and others do not, usually based on some personal characteristic that the first group has and the second does not. Sometimes it means something that should be first-group-only, sometimes it means something that should be everybody; this can produce confusion. You said “education should be a privilege”; that means you think education should be a thing that some people have and others do not, and your context implies that the distinguishing characteristic should be whether the person (if adult) or their parents (if under 25) can afford education for the person. You then said “I wouldn’t deny education to anybody. I think everyone should have excellent education.” That flatly contradicts your earlier statement.

    ‘Pragmatist’ means one who is practical, one who makes decisions based on what demonstrably does work rather than on what theory says should work. Assuming you want education for all, the pragmatic way to go about this is to have government fund everyone’s education, at least to a point (high school graduation was a good point when all it took to get a living-wage job was a high school diploma; college graduation is a good point now that a college diploma is all but required for a living-wage job). Assuming you want education only for those who can afford it…well, that’s not a pragmatic goal in itself, unless you also intend for people to get rich selling snake oil rather than selling products that work as advertised (not that that doesn’t happen with an educated populace, but it’s much more likely to happen with a populace that has no idea how to think critically or to evaluate a scientific claim), and you intend for the people getting rich to do so without the benefit of a broad skilled-labor pool.

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    “‘Pragmatist’ means one who is practical, one who makes decisions based on what demonstrably does work rather than on what theory says should work.”

    Human Action not human planning.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    What the fuck does that even mean?

    I reiterate: How do you manage to remember to breathe?

  • EllieMurasaki

    He doesn’t have to. There’s more operable brain cells controlling his autonomic reflexes than his cognition and communication.

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    meaning you go by what people do, not what you think they ought to do.

    http://mises.org/media.aspx?action=category&ID=139

    Ellie-

  • EllieMurasaki

    If you plan to edit this comment to include whatever you meant to include after my name, please do a new comment instead. That way I’ll see it, because Disqus does not see fit to email notifs of edited comments and I rarely check a comments page once I have subscribed the thread and read all the comments predating my subscribing.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    meaning you go by what people do, not what you think they ought to do.

    So … because people steal, and people ought not to steal, criminal law is invalid?

    The logical consequence of that kind of simplistic thinking is that governments shouldn’t even exist to enforce laws that private individuals could not hope to enforce themselves.

  • http://twitter.com/lesterhalfjr Chris Hadrick

    No it’s about consumer behaviour


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