The Glorious Appearing of Mitt Romney

Here’s Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney going the full LaHaye:

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This is Romney discussing the Second Coming of Christ on what seems to be a Christian-right radio program, in full don’t-interrupt-me-while-I’m-interrupting debate mode. He’s reassuring the interviewer that his views are fully in line with those of Tim LaHaye, Hal Lindsey, John Hagee and any premillennial dispensationalist End Times listeners, just with a little bit of extra Missouri.

Here’s my rough transcript:

Christ appears in the Mount of Olives and splits the Mount of Olives and appears in Jerusalem. That’s what the church says. And then over a thousand years, the Millennium, that the world is reigned in two places, Jerusalem and Missouri. That’s what the church says.

The Second Coming, the arrival of Jesus Christ, our church says is in Jerusalem. Christ appears — it’s throughout the Bible — Christ appears in Jerusalem, splits the Mount of Olives to stop the war that’s coming in to kill all the Jews, our church believes that. That’s when the coming in glory in Christ occurs.

We also believe that over the thousand years that follows, the Millennium, he will reign from two places. That the law will come forward from one place, from Missouri, and the other will be in Jerusalem. All right? That’s … uh … but, now, back to abortion …

  • bytebear

     Actually, no.   We are living in the tribulations now.  Christ will come, and there will be 1000 years of peace.  Mormons will not be the only ones around, and people will still have free agency.  Then, after 1000 years, the final judgement will come.

    And it’s not called “Outer Void” but Outer Darkness.  Here are some Bible references.

    Matthew 25:30
    30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Matthew 8:12

    12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Matthew 22:13
    13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

  • bytebear

     http://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles?lang=eng

    Chapters 43-46

  • Rowen

    Isn’t the Outer Darkness where Morgoth is bound?

  • http://www.oliviareviews.com/ PepperjackCandy

    Will Christ’s summer home be in Springfield?  Branson?  Joplin?

     That was my first thought.

    Okay, actually my choice of locations was St. Louis, Kansas City, and Hannibal.

    Branson did occur to me later, though.

  • http://shiftercat.livejournal.com/ ShifterCat

    Completely off-topic, I know, but I can’t resist showing off my geekery:

    There are a couple of explanations for the Kessel Run being measured in distance rather than time.  One proposes that it’s a sort of dare for starship pilots, measuring who can get their ship closest to this dangerous thing.

    The other explanation is both simpler and more amusing:  Han Solo figured that he’s talking to a couple of backwater rubes, and is putting them on.  This is justified in the movie by the look Obi-Wan shoots Han right after the Kessel Run line.

  • Lori

    In shipping there are often bonuses for on-time or early delivery.

  • http://shiftercat.livejournal.com/ ShifterCat

    …And I see a bunch of people got there ahead of me.

  • Ansel Silver

    He’s not lying, though. Why do you assume he’s lying? Anyone who says this Millennialist stuff is made up on the spot by Mitt Romney to gloss over the differences between his religion and that of Evangelicals and Fundamentalists is simply mistaken. It’s been present in the Mormon culture for decades, at least, and I’ve only met a vanishing few Mormons who don’t believe it.

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    It is really interesting though. How many other “first world” countries would a presidential candidate ever be asked to talk about this or even be interested in discussing this topic with anyone in public?

    Speaking just for Lawless Unfreedonia here, when we’ve had Prime Ministers or Prime Ministerial candidates who say more about their religious faith than “yes, I believe in God and go to church now how about that local sports team” they tend to get looked at with shifty eyes by the wider populace.

  • Carstonio

    If the new trilogy were set shortly after the first one, the flesh-and-blood characters would have to be recast, and I don’t know how fans would accept that. Another option is setting the new movies 35 years later* and using as many of the original cast members as possible, and I doubt Harrison Ford would be willing. My preference would be for setting the movie 50 to 70 years after Return of the Jedi.

    *Has it been that long? I was 10 when the original film came out.

  • Carstonio

     I read that increasing the focus on Flynn, along with giving the movie a more generic name, was intended to make the movie appeal to kids of both sexes. I agree that Disney went too far in that direction since the original story was far more about the female character. But I did appreciate that Gothel’s relationship with Rapunzel was an allegory for controlling, narcissistic child-raising.

  • Parisienne

    On first-world countries with Presidents… in the one where I live, spouting this sort of stuff about the end of the world in public would really, really, *REALLY* not the way forward if you were hoping to get elected.

  • Lunch Meat

    Personally, as a huge fan, if the choice is between a good new movie with good but new actors and no new movie at all, I’d take it. And if it ends up being a bad movie, well, we fans are really good at rejecting reality and substituting our own.

    On a side note, isn’t it a shame that Episode 1 never got made?

  • Tricksterson

    Yeah, but unlike Romney, when it came down to it Winston was a decent, stand-up guy who was, in the end, willing to stand by his comrades against a frikkin’god(ess)!  I don’t think any of this can be said of Romney.

  • Tricksterson

    I see no Biblical evidence for Jesus being a horder. 

  • Tricksterson

    And gay marriage, don’t forget that.

  • Tricksterson

    “pleasant, sometimes a bit goofy, but certainly harmless”

    While conceding that that’s an opinion more than a few pagans have of their own ceremonies, would like to point out to the “little Catholic boy” that, at least until the point where the priest starts fulminating against gays and women behaving above their station, if he does, well aware not all would,  that many people would have of a Catholic mass if they were unfamiliar with it.

  • Tricksterson

    “That’d be like if Archbishop Doyle started saying the Prosperity Gospel was okay in his book”

    Read  Render Unto Rome: The Secret Life of Money in the Catholic Church by Jason Berry and you’ll see that bishops and cardinals have no problem with the Prosperity Gospel, at least applying it to their own lives.

  • Tricksterson

    I forget, even though I know it came up in a previous thread, does the LDs believe in Hell?

  • Tricksterson

    You forgot homosexuals and uppity women.

  • http://dpolicar.livejournal.com/ Dave

     Sure. As well as the opinion that more than a few Catholics have of their own mass, I would expect. All rituals are kind of goofy if I don’t engage with the symbology.

  • VMink

    And it’s not called “Outer Void” but Outer Darkness.

    Ah, thanks for the correction!  I had a feeling I was incorrect. =)

  • http://www.facebook.com/susan.paxton.94 Susan Paxton

    If someone told Mittens to paint himself pink and parade naked down Fifth Avenue, he’d do it. No one that deranged about wanting to be President should be permitted within a thousand miles of the office.

  • Consumer Unit 5012

     He’s not lying, though. Why do you assume he’s lying?

    Conditioned reflex.

  • Consumer Unit 5012

     No one that deranged about wanting to be President should be permitted within a thousand miles of the office.

    Like Douglas Adams said, anyone obsessed enough to go through what it takes to be President shouldn’t be allowed to have the job.

  • PatBannon

    Yes, but the run is not a measure of speed, it’s a measure of distance. The Kessel Run measures not how fast you can go on the run, but the shortest distance you can take from Kessel to the drop zone. A straight line is completely impossible, as you must go through a huge black hole cluster (work with me here) called the Maw. The more skillful a pilot, the closer he can come to going in a straight line (and the riskier it is, as he must skirt black holes): thus, Han’s comment is valid, and so is this one.

  • http://www.oliviareviews.com/ PepperjackCandy

     Maybe it was a mistranslation of some sort. 

    I’m kind of hoping the same thing applies to that whole midichlorians nonsense.

  • Victor

    “DISTANCE UNIT NOT SPEED UNIT”

    WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE VICTOR?

    I don’t know sinner vic! Maybe “IT” has something to do with this “BELOW”?

    http://www.americancatholic.org/features/saintofday/default.aspx

    GO FIGURE! :)

    PEACE

     

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Speaking just for Lawless Unfreedonia here, when we’ve had Prime Ministers or Prime Ministerial candidates who say more about their religious faith than “yes, I believe in God and go to church now how about that local sports team” they tend to get looked at with shifty eyes by the wider populace.

    Oh, how I wish that were true in the U.S. too… 

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE VICTOR?

    NON-SEQUITUR!  

    http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/

    YEAH, I SAID IT!  :)

    SERENITY  

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    In Canada, Jean Chretien was known to be Catholic and occasionally referred to it, but generally in passing. I don’t even know what religion (if any) Paul Martin or Stephen Harper have, and even Harper doesn’t seem interested in trying to push a more religious/faith-based approach in politics.

    He IS very interested in acting without any consideration for the basics of democracy though, as judged from the omnibus bills he’s been trying to push through the Commons with little debate. (-_-)

  • http://shiftercat.livejournal.com/ ShifterCat

    Ehhh… there *is* Harper’s recent “I’m not in a position to prioritize a religion… but I’m going to do it anyway,” thing, concerning minority faith prison chaplains.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Oh, how fun. (>_<)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=667708632 Kenneth Raymond

    There’s one crazy fan theory I swear I’ve heard somewhere about midichlorians that they’re not the cause of Force connection, but some kind of weird biological side-effect of it. Kind of like a largely harmless “parasite” that ends up clustering in Force-sensitive beings. It moves it slightly from measuring Force strength directly, to measuring a visible effect upon the world not entirely unlike measuring how many newtons of force (pun not intended) can be exerted by a Jedi’s telekinetic push as a means of gauging their strength and development.

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Maybe it was a mistranslation of some sort.

    Like the Millennium Falcon?

  • LoneWolf343

     *slaps forehead* Didn’t think of that. Shows that I am a white Christian in America, doesn’t it?

  • LoneWolf343

     ”Why do you assume he’s lying?”

    His mouth is moving.

  • Tricksterson

    “Anyone who wants power shouldn’t have it”
    St. Douglas Adams

  • Hello_World

    Really? What do they believe then? As far as I know, Romney is correct.

  • http://blog.trenchcoatsoft.com Ross

     Apparently, and I have gotten yelled at over this, the officially accepted canonical position is that, unlikely as it may seem, impossible as it may seem, “Basic”, the lingua franca of a galaxy far far away, when spoken aloud, literally sounds exactly like english.  It is not being translated for the viewer’s benefit; they are literally speaking english, most of them speaking it in a 20th century US dialect. Jar Jar’s rastafarian isn’t a translation; he really does sound like a broad Jamaican stereorype. The trade alliance bigwigs really are talking like the white guys in yellowface from a WWII anti-Japanese propaganda film.

    Which I think makes everything worse.

  • Hello_World

    I’m not getting the rapture vibe here at all, pre- post- mid…. If Christ comes to the earth, which the Bible says he is… is that the rapture? I always understood that the rapture was that the saints would be caught up to meet Christ or leave the earth… What I understand the Mormons believe is that Christ will personally reign on the earth. The saints aren’t going anywhere which is not the rapture. We live, we eat, we die all during that time, the only difference is, there will be one ruler worldwide; Jesus Christ. No rapture.

  • Launcifer

    Wait… hang on… so if Jesus Christ is going to form his own one-world government, does that make him the anti-Christ or have I gotten the threads confused again?

  • Zippy

     Does the Mormon church endorse millenialist “End Times” eschatology? Serious question, I don’t really know.

    Not according to the Mormons Amy Johnson Frykholm talked to in “Rapture Culture.” They didn’t recognize the concepts, though it’s debatable whether that’s caused by the concepts or by the L&J choice of vocabulary.

  • Zippy

     Hello, Hello_World and please don’t kill us with sheep. (*tribal greeting*)

    Standard orthodox mainstream mainline (whatever term, etc.) Christian belief is that “rapture” and “glorious appearing” aren’t separate events. The belief is that when Jesus Christ returns it will look a lot like His departure (per Acts 1:11), only more, well, glorious. Everyone who loves Him will be so happy to see Him that they’ll forget they can’t fly and will fly to His side. And where He is going when they see Him is coming down to Earth. Sort of like when you see Dad coming home from the war and getting off the plane, you rush to his side, then you go home. You don’t get on the plane and go back with him to wherever he just came from.

    In that sense the Mormon understanding of “rapture” is similar to mainstream Christianity: part of the reunion, not part of a disappearance.

    Left Behind absolutely teaches that there are 7 years between their Rapture (a disappearing) and a Glorious Appearing in which everyone who disappeared comes back with Jesus to watch while He wipes out the enemy. And the Left Behind sort-of afterlife is in their books “The Rapture” (book 15) and “Kingdom Come, the final victory” (book 16). I say “sort-of” afterlife because they still have another judgment in their belief systems to get through. There are internet spoilers for both books if you’re curious. Although he’s working as fast as he can Fred’ll take a few decades to get there, assuming working through lunches and no potty breaks.

    Yeah, it’s a surprise if Romney would say his beliefs are compatible with L&J’s. Maybe he means that in his opinion they’re less incompatible with each other than with the main church.

  • Jay in Oregon

    There was an attempt to explain the misuse of the term “parsecs” in one of the Star Wars novels.

    The Kessel Run is a smuggler’s route through a nebula that is typically 18 parsecs in length. Han Solo found a shorter route (11.5 parsecs) that allowed him to make the smuggling run by skirting closer to a black hole cluster called the Maw.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kessel_Run


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