The Glorious Appearing of Mitt Romney

Here’s Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney going the full LaHaye:

YouTube Preview Image

This is Romney discussing the Second Coming of Christ on what seems to be a Christian-right radio program, in full don’t-interrupt-me-while-I’m-interrupting debate mode. He’s reassuring the interviewer that his views are fully in line with those of Tim LaHaye, Hal Lindsey, John Hagee and any premillennial dispensationalist End Times listeners, just with a little bit of extra Missouri.

Here’s my rough transcript:

Christ appears in the Mount of Olives and splits the Mount of Olives and appears in Jerusalem. That’s what the church says. And then over a thousand years, the Millennium, that the world is reigned in two places, Jerusalem and Missouri. That’s what the church says.

The Second Coming, the arrival of Jesus Christ, our church says is in Jerusalem. Christ appears — it’s throughout the Bible — Christ appears in Jerusalem, splits the Mount of Olives to stop the war that’s coming in to kill all the Jews, our church believes that. That’s when the coming in glory in Christ occurs.

We also believe that over the thousand years that follows, the Millennium, he will reign from two places. That the law will come forward from one place, from Missouri, and the other will be in Jerusalem. All right? That’s … uh … but, now, back to abortion …

Stay in touch with the Slacktivist on Facebook:

The Left Behind franchise is coming for your children
'Religious outreach'
Ralph Reed's history with casino moguls
Donald Trump's B-list 'evangelical advisory board'
  • Jim Roberts

    Missouri? Huh. Nice a place to set up as any, I suppose.

  • Morilore

    It’s sad that the “Missouri” part is potentially the most damaging. 

  • rm

    I am upset that the title of “Glorious Appearing” is displayed in a font uncomfortably close to Star Trek’s. That is just wrong.

  • MikeJ

    And I thought the I-70 series was exciting! 

  • Eamon Knight

    Shorter Romney: “I’m totes like you guys (except for the radical differences I’m not telling you about) so vote for me!!”

  • Magic_Cracker

    Do they even have direct flights from Kolob to Missouri?

  • sadie

    Not since Lambert airport stopped being a hub. Now you have to route through Denver to Branson. 

  • Magic_Cracker

    What about smaller, regional carriers? I hear there’s this one outfit that makes the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs.

  • EllieMurasaki

    DISTANCE UNIT NOT SPEED UNIT

  • Magic_Cracker

    NEVER HEARD OF SPACE-TIME!?!

  • EllieMurasaki

    YEAH BUT IF THERE’S NO TIME UNIT IT’S JUST SPACE. PARSECS IS DISTANCE. PARSECS/DAY IS SPEED.

  • Magic_Cracker

    YEAH BUT WITH FICTIONAL CHILDREN’S ENTERTAINMENTS WHY DOES IT MATTER??? AND ANYWAY IF I GO FROM CHAMBERSBURG TO CARLISLE AND BACK ON RT11 IT’S 44 MILES BUT 40 MILES IF I TAKE I81 SO MAYBE HAN HAD A SUCH A ROUTE FIGURED OUT!!!!1!

  • EllieMurasaki

    SHORTER DISTANCE DOES HIM NO GOOD IF IT SAVES HIM NO TIME.

  • Magic_Cracker

    ONE WOULD ASSUME IT SAVES HIM TIME OTHERWISE WHY BOTHER TO MENTION IT!?!?!

  • EllieMurasaki

    THEN WHY ISN’T HE MENTIONING TIME UNITS.

  • Magic_Cracker

    BECAUSE HE DOESN’T NEED TO!!1!

  • rm

     I have always believed that “parsecs” was short for “light parsecs,” a unit of time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jrandyowens Randy Owens

    Are you serious?  Because, a) that would be parsecs / lightspeed, not light-parsecs or light parsecs, and b) one of those would be over three years, so the Kessel Run would have taken him about 40 years.

  • Donalbain

    Hyperspace is effectively the warping of space. A hyperspace engine makes a shortcut between two points in space. Everything travels at the same speed in hyperspace, but the effectiveness of a jump is defined by how short a distance you travel between the two points. Thus doing the run in x parsecs is better than doing it in x+n parsecs.

  • Carstonio

     Lucas has claimed that Han Solo’s mistake with parsecs in A New Hope was intended to make him look like a huckster who didn’t always know what he was talking about. I’m skeptical of that. The re-edited version of the film shows Luke and Ben giving each other sidelong glances when Han says this.

  • EllieMurasaki

    I suppose that makes sense. Seems like a really stupid mistake for Han to make, though.

    Isn’t this the same reedited version that has Ep III era Anakin and Han not shooting first, though? KILL IT WITH FIRE.

  • http://blog.trenchcoatsoft.com Ross

     The interpretation I’ve long felt is best supported is that he’s just throwing out big fancy words to impress the country rubes. Like when someone starts talking to you about monetizing the synergy of the cloud via cyber or something.

  • Jim Roberts

    There are two canonical explanations:
    1. Solo is blowing smoke, spouting off fancy pilot-talk in an effort to impress what looks to be a teenage boy and an old man.
    2. The more official answer from the canon is that the standard Kessel Run is 18 parsecs, but if you hew closer to a bunch of black holes, not only is your route shorter by distance, but the black holes skew space in your favour. At one point, Solo actually makes the run in less than 10 parsecs.

  • EllieMurasaki

    Number two makes a lot more sense. Except for the bit about how it benefits him to take the much more dangerous route–there’s got to be a hell of a prize but what is it?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137545863 Ian Cunningham

     Reputation. As a smuggler, if you’re known to be able to shave even the slightest bit of cost from the product before you get it to market, your employers are likely to hire you again. And if you get sucked into a black hole and die? Well, it’s not like they have to pay worker’s comp.

  • EllieMurasaki

    Aaaaah.

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Number two makes a lot more sense. Except for the bit about how it benefits him to take the much more dangerous route–there’s got to be a hell of a prize but what is it?

    Illegal spices.  Of course, in the context of Star Wars, “spices” is a euphemism for certain rare and powerful psychoactive substances, hence the illegality.  Kessle is a place in the middle of a cluster of black holes which is the only place in the galaxy such spice can be produced.  Normally the “Kessle run” requires quite a lot of jumps to navigate past all the black holes, which means they have to go more distance “as the ship jumps” than it would be if straight-line travel was possible.  The Millennium Falcon’s hyperdrive was so over-clocked that it could calculate how to slalom past those black holes much more closely, cutting off a lot of distance and time from the trip, though admittedly at greater risk.  

    Of course, when one’s ship is carrying illegal cargo and trying to avoid Imperial patrols which otherwise monitor known safe routes to and from Kessle, the riskier route becomes the lesser of two dangers.  Hence, Han is boasting of his qualifications as a smuggler.  

    Of course, that did not actually stop Han from running into an Imperial patrol and having to dump the cargo anyway to avoid arrest.  Since that cargo was already paid for in advance by Jabba the Hutt, this is understandably why Han is having a little trouble getting away from his underworld connections.  

  • Carstonio

    I suspect Lucas originally used “spice” because of its significance in Earth maritime history. The backstory you cite might have been created by a real SF writer, instead of a young director borrowing from Kurosawa and Joseph Campbell to cobble together an homage to old serials.

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    I suspect Lucas originally used “spice” because of its significance in Earth maritime history. The backstory you cite might have been created by a real SF writer, instead of a young director borrowing from Kurosawa and Joseph Campbell to cobble together an homage to old serials.

    Okay, I admit it!  I was dipping into the Star Wars expanded universe’s justification for it, specially the first book of the Jedi Academy Trilogy, Jedi Search, by Kevin J. Anderson.  

    I understand that KJA has some decent sci-fi pedigree outside of that… except when he tried to pick up where Frank Herbert left off…

  • flat

    The only expanded universe books I am interested in is the thrawn triology, in fact they were the first EU books I ever picked up.

    In my humble opinion the others can f*ck off.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=667708632 Kenneth Raymond

    Now, now, the X-Wing novels are actually quite good, too! Especially Allston’s Wraith Squadron. Entertaining, interesting, expanding on the universe constructively, and not particularly up their own asses (or the Jedi’s).

  • flat

    I think my problem with it is just: there is TOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Sorry but it all started with thrawn and I think that was the best that could ever happen to star wars.

    The second best thing that didn’t happen was that they didn’t hire an editor at Lucasart with a machinegun to stop the upcoming tide of writers who were trying to jump on the bandwagon.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=667708632 Kenneth Raymond

    Oh yeah, there’s definitely way too much in the EU to hope to keep track of. I had the time when I was a young nerdling still in school, but eventually it seemed like there were two new novels for every one I finished. (And that’s without even touching on the comic books. Holy crap so much gone on there.) After a point you’ve got to draw a line, or let others do the filtering for you, or be prepared to give up the rest of your life to it.

    Thrawn is a very solid stopping point, but I like some of the minor characters too much to disregard them completely, so X-Wing has wormed its way in under my line as well. (Not to mention getting a perspective on the setting from characters who aren’t all the Most Important People In The Galaxy.)

  • Carstonio

    I’ve only read Heir to the Empire, which didn’t hold my interest. I’ve also read Splinter of the Mind’s Eye and Daley ‘s Han Solo trilogy, although I don’t know if they count as EU since they preceded Zahn’s work. With Disney planning on a new trilogy, I think it needs a strong unifying theme. The original trilogy had Luke’s maturation and progress toward becoming a Jedi, and the newer one had Anakin’s journey to the dark side. What works in the EU would you recommend for such a theme.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=667708632 Kenneth Raymond

    What works in the EU would you recommend for such a theme?
    The two existing movie trilogies had fairly tight myth arcs about the development of their central characters (and I’ll contend there’s a very good plot at the heart of the prequel trilogy, even if the presentation was… uninspired), and very little in the EU is really about that. Any given work in the EU, after the Emperor’s death, is more about turning Star Wars into an episodic adventure series structured more like Doctor Who than the movies. But for the movies, I think they should either move on to the next generation (for thematic consistency), or look harder at what it means to be a hero who doesn’t get lost along the way, but now has to deal with the fallout of their heroism.

    Of the EU, I’d probably pick and choose mostly from Zahn’s Thrawn trilogy to build something around the latter central theme. Mara Jade is a good character for that, paired with Luke, because she’s a pointed reminder that his responsibility isn’t just some big impersonal obligation to the galaxy, or the Jedi, or whatever, but to actual people who have been hurt and cast adrift. What does redemption mean for someone who has done bad things and yet didn’t conveniently die when she’s no longer doing those bad things?

    Luke is (or should be) about how the big, high-minded stuff espoused by others – the Sith, the Jedi, the Empire, the Republic – comes down to the personal level. Luke vs. Vader wasn’t just Sith vs. Jedi, it was father and son. In the same way, Mara is much like Luke through a mirror darkly. Almost everything in her history is something Luke went through, but filtered through the Dark Side or lacking some perfect opportunity that he got. So while you have the backdrop of the renewed war with Thrawn, fighting to pick up the pieces and rebuild what you’re responsible for breaking before someone else does, there’s still the personal story of Luke and Mara that reflects the bigger circumstances, which is a lot more necessary to a proper Star Wars story than lightsaber fights and big war scenes.

    Also Zahn opened each book with a Star Destroyer passing over the “camera.” Gotta have that.

  • Lunch Meat

    The Hand of Thrawn duology has some really good points, with the people who want to make peace with what’s left of the empire vs the people who want to stir up more trouble. I can see that being a good unifying theme, but without doing the trilogy first, there would just be way too much exposition and backstory to cram in or oversimplify.

    I support the Thrawn trilogy because it could focus on Leia and Mara’s journeys instead of making it all about men.

  • EllieMurasaki

    I support the Thrawn trilogy because it could focus on Leia and Mara’s journeys instead of making it all about men.

    From the company that made their Rapunzel remake all about the prince?

  • Lunch Meat

    I said “could”.

  • Carstonio

     I read that increasing the focus on Flynn, along with giving the movie a more generic name, was intended to make the movie appeal to kids of both sexes. I agree that Disney went too far in that direction since the original story was far more about the female character. But I did appreciate that Gothel’s relationship with Rapunzel was an allegory for controlling, narcissistic child-raising.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=667708632 Kenneth Raymond

    Thrawn trilogy also just has so much going on that you’re kind of spoiled for choice if you want to write a movie trilogy, giving a good scriptwriter and editor an excuse to go at it with a scalpel and sutures to cut and rebuild as necessary. You could do it so many ways that it’s almost a shame to settle on just one of them. Still, since we’d have to, something centered around Leia and Mara’s perspectives sounds wonderful. I think you could finagle some extra perspective on Leia’s character and that of the Rebellion/New Republic out of the whole subplot with Garm bel Iblis and his feud with Mon Mothma, too.

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Oh, I would agree.  I still think that the Thrawn Trilogy as the first and best part of the Star Wars EU.  Unfortunately, Sturgeons Law applies to the rest.  Still, I read them as a youth because occasionally one finds a gem.  

    There is a reason Thrawn himself is so damn popular though.  They even added him (then a Vice-Admiral) as a character in the TIE Fighter computer game.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=659001961 Brad Ellison

    He does not.  He’s the worst fifth-rate hack I’ve ever seen, at least the worst one to take up that much shelf space.  It’s an ongoing mystery and frustration to me that he keeps getting hired to write for major IPs.

  • Jim Roberts

    It also sells the character’s willingness to take stupid risks (like rescuing a princess from a space station the size of a moon).

  • Lori

    In shipping there are often bonuses for on-time or early delivery.

  • Rick

    Pedant unit, too!

  • http://shiftercat.livejournal.com/ ShifterCat

    Completely off-topic, I know, but I can’t resist showing off my geekery:

    There are a couple of explanations for the Kessel Run being measured in distance rather than time.  One proposes that it’s a sort of dare for starship pilots, measuring who can get their ship closest to this dangerous thing.

    The other explanation is both simpler and more amusing:  Han Solo figured that he’s talking to a couple of backwater rubes, and is putting them on.  This is justified in the movie by the look Obi-Wan shoots Han right after the Kessel Run line.

  • PatBannon

    Yes, but the run is not a measure of speed, it’s a measure of distance. The Kessel Run measures not how fast you can go on the run, but the shortest distance you can take from Kessel to the drop zone. A straight line is completely impossible, as you must go through a huge black hole cluster (work with me here) called the Maw. The more skillful a pilot, the closer he can come to going in a straight line (and the riskier it is, as he must skirt black holes): thus, Han’s comment is valid, and so is this one.

  • http://www.oliviareviews.com/ PepperjackCandy

     Maybe it was a mistranslation of some sort. 

    I’m kind of hoping the same thing applies to that whole midichlorians nonsense.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=667708632 Kenneth Raymond

    There’s one crazy fan theory I swear I’ve heard somewhere about midichlorians that they’re not the cause of Force connection, but some kind of weird biological side-effect of it. Kind of like a largely harmless “parasite” that ends up clustering in Force-sensitive beings. It moves it slightly from measuring Force strength directly, to measuring a visible effect upon the world not entirely unlike measuring how many newtons of force (pun not intended) can be exerted by a Jedi’s telekinetic push as a means of gauging their strength and development.

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Maybe it was a mistranslation of some sort.

    Like the Millennium Falcon?

  • http://blog.trenchcoatsoft.com Ross

     Apparently, and I have gotten yelled at over this, the officially accepted canonical position is that, unlikely as it may seem, impossible as it may seem, “Basic”, the lingua franca of a galaxy far far away, when spoken aloud, literally sounds exactly like english.  It is not being translated for the viewer’s benefit; they are literally speaking english, most of them speaking it in a 20th century US dialect. Jar Jar’s rastafarian isn’t a translation; he really does sound like a broad Jamaican stereorype. The trade alliance bigwigs really are talking like the white guys in yellowface from a WWII anti-Japanese propaganda film.

    Which I think makes everything worse.

  • Jay in Oregon

    There was an attempt to explain the misuse of the term “parsecs” in one of the Star Wars novels.

    The Kessel Run is a smuggler’s route through a nebula that is typically 18 parsecs in length. Han Solo found a shorter route (11.5 parsecs) that allowed him to make the smuggling run by skirting closer to a black hole cluster called the Maw.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kessel_Run

  • JustoneK

    I am totally convinced he will say and pretend to do anything to get more votes.

  • Jim Roberts

    Mitt Romney, the Winston Zeddemore of politics.

  • Tricksterson

    Yeah, but unlike Romney, when it came down to it Winston was a decent, stand-up guy who was, in the end, willing to stand by his comrades against a frikkin’god(ess)!  I don’t think any of this can be said of Romney.

  • http://www.facebook.com/susan.paxton.94 Susan Paxton

    If someone told Mittens to paint himself pink and parade naked down Fifth Avenue, he’d do it. No one that deranged about wanting to be President should be permitted within a thousand miles of the office.

  • Consumer Unit 5012

     No one that deranged about wanting to be President should be permitted within a thousand miles of the office.

    Like Douglas Adams said, anyone obsessed enough to go through what it takes to be President shouldn’t be allowed to have the job.

  • Tricksterson

    “Anyone who wants power shouldn’t have it”
    St. Douglas Adams

  • AnonymousSam

    This is somehow even more transparent than a band on tour having to pause and whisper off-stage before declaring how stoked they are to be in, “uh, Alexandria Tennessee!” and that’s saying something.

    INB4 Romney concedes to the radio show host in Florida that the Bible has many interpretations (“but only one legitimate one,” he hastens to add to the host in Alabama) and that Jesus may very well set up his law in another state (“But we all know which one is the most likely, right?” he rhetorically quips to the host in Texas).

  • Magic_Cracker

    Nobody saves like …. Jesus!

  • Tricksterson

    I see no Biblical evidence for Jesus being a horder. 

  • Claude

    “That’s … uh … but, now, back to abortion …”

    Doesn’t it all come down to abortion in the end.

  • John (not McCain)

    Truly, it is the Alpha and Omega, forever and ever, amen.

  • Tricksterson

    And gay marriage, don’t forget that.

  • http://dpolicar.livejournal.com/ Dave
  • Random_Lurker

     Fantastic article.  I’ve seen Wiccan ceremonies (even officiated a Wiccan/Catholic wedding, if you can get your head around that one) but never anything that elaborate.

    It’s also interesting to see a bigot give a lecture to an audience entirely against him and hold his composure.  I have to wonder what kind of thoughts and rationalizations he ponders after that.

  • http://dpolicar.livejournal.com/ Dave

     Yeah, the MIT Pagan Students Group used to do some fairly elaborate intro rituals around this time of year; they were a fun group. I dunno if they still do.

    And yeah, I was bummed that I missed that lecture; several of my friends went to it and said it was a blast. The phrase “moving on to child sacrifice” has been a catchphrase in one of my social circles ever since.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jrandyowens Randy Owens

    (even officiated a Wiccan/Catholic wedding, if you can get your head around that one)

    Waitaminnit… you didn’t happen to go by the handle Lone Wolf at the time, did you?

  • Random_Lurker

     Sorry, that wasn’t me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jrandyowens Randy Owens

    Well, damn, how many hybrid pagan/Wiccan/Catholic weddings have there been, then?

  • Tricksterson

    “pleasant, sometimes a bit goofy, but certainly harmless”

    While conceding that that’s an opinion more than a few pagans have of their own ceremonies, would like to point out to the “little Catholic boy” that, at least until the point where the priest starts fulminating against gays and women behaving above their station, if he does, well aware not all would,  that many people would have of a Catholic mass if they were unfamiliar with it.

  • http://dpolicar.livejournal.com/ Dave

     Sure. As well as the opinion that more than a few Catholics have of their own mass, I would expect. All rituals are kind of goofy if I don’t engage with the symbology.

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    “Jesus saves!  The rest of you take 2d8 damage.” 

  • http://tobascodagama.com Tobasco da Gama

    Does the Mormon church endorse millenialist “End Times” eschatology? Serious question, I don’t really know.

  • VMink

    Tobasco: The short form is that the LDS does believe in a premillenial rapture, but not in a pre-Tribulation rapture.  The “saints” i.e. the Church will be here on Earth for the entirety of the Tribulation, which is supposed to bring them closer to God.  At the end of the Tribulation, the Second Coming and the Rapture all happen at once, and it’s time to judge the quick and the dead.  And then there’s the Millenial Kingdom, and then finally the end of this world, and people will be in the applicable Terrestrial, Telestial, and Celestial Kingdoms, or the Outer Void.  (Mormon theology is surprisingly universalist in some cases.)

  • http://tobascodagama.com Tobasco da Gama

     Cool! Thanks for the info.

  • VMink

    Welcome!

    Also: Disclaimer: I am not a Mormon, nor do I play one on radio.

  • bytebear

     Actually, no.   We are living in the tribulations now.  Christ will come, and there will be 1000 years of peace.  Mormons will not be the only ones around, and people will still have free agency.  Then, after 1000 years, the final judgement will come.

    And it’s not called “Outer Void” but Outer Darkness.  Here are some Bible references.

    Matthew 25:30
    30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Matthew 8:12

    12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Matthew 22:13
    13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

  • VMink

    And it’s not called “Outer Void” but Outer Darkness.

    Ah, thanks for the correction!  I had a feeling I was incorrect. =)

  • Tricksterson

    I forget, even though I know it came up in a previous thread, does the LDs believe in Hell?

  • Hello_World

    I’m not getting the rapture vibe here at all, pre- post- mid…. If Christ comes to the earth, which the Bible says he is… is that the rapture? I always understood that the rapture was that the saints would be caught up to meet Christ or leave the earth… What I understand the Mormons believe is that Christ will personally reign on the earth. The saints aren’t going anywhere which is not the rapture. We live, we eat, we die all during that time, the only difference is, there will be one ruler worldwide; Jesus Christ. No rapture.

  • Zippy

     Hello, Hello_World and please don’t kill us with sheep. (*tribal greeting*)

    Standard orthodox mainstream mainline (whatever term, etc.) Christian belief is that “rapture” and “glorious appearing” aren’t separate events. The belief is that when Jesus Christ returns it will look a lot like His departure (per Acts 1:11), only more, well, glorious. Everyone who loves Him will be so happy to see Him that they’ll forget they can’t fly and will fly to His side. And where He is going when they see Him is coming down to Earth. Sort of like when you see Dad coming home from the war and getting off the plane, you rush to his side, then you go home. You don’t get on the plane and go back with him to wherever he just came from.

    In that sense the Mormon understanding of “rapture” is similar to mainstream Christianity: part of the reunion, not part of a disappearance.

    Left Behind absolutely teaches that there are 7 years between their Rapture (a disappearing) and a Glorious Appearing in which everyone who disappeared comes back with Jesus to watch while He wipes out the enemy. And the Left Behind sort-of afterlife is in their books “The Rapture” (book 15) and “Kingdom Come, the final victory” (book 16). I say “sort-of” afterlife because they still have another judgment in their belief systems to get through. There are internet spoilers for both books if you’re curious. Although he’s working as fast as he can Fred’ll take a few decades to get there, assuming working through lunches and no potty breaks.

    Yeah, it’s a surprise if Romney would say his beliefs are compatible with L&J’s. Maybe he means that in his opinion they’re less incompatible with each other than with the main church.

  • http://redwoodr.tumblr.com Redwood Rhiadra

    It’s not identical to the PMD beliefs, but it sure sounds pretty similar. From the Encyclopedia of Mormonism at BYU:

    http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Last_Days

  • VMink

    … Huh.  Thanks for that, Rhiadra.  It turns out I was partly wrong about Romney’s comments, then.  According to Mormon theology, there will be two capitols of the Millenial Kingdom.   (The one in North America is just not specified as to where it will be, but it isn’t horrible to assume it will be in Eden/Missouri.)

    There is still the problem in that Romney claimed that evangelical views of the Rapture match those of the Mormon Church.  The Mormons believe there will be a ‘rapture’ but it will not be before the Tribulation.  This is an important difference and it’s one that should be making Mormon theologians look askance at Romney.

  • http://redwoodr.tumblr.com Redwood Rhiadra

     Yes, it’s clear that Romney is trying to pretend that Mormon theology is a lot closer to RTC theology than it actually is. But don’t expect any blowback from the Mormon elders – glossing over the differences between Mormon theology and more mainstream theology is standard practice for Mormon missionaries. Harder to do now these days since a lot of the Mormon scripture is now online and searchable, including the books they don’t usually show potential converts…

  • nerdycellist

    As someone raised in that faith I can guarantee that as of 1991 (the last time I attended) it sure as hell didn’t. So either the slipped that change in while pretending it’s been there all the time in the last 25 or so years, or Mitt’s lying his ass off again. Either is equally possible.

    Also – last I heard, Mormon’s believe that God created Evolution – sort of intelligent-designy – and not in Young Earth Creationism. Any words otherwise would mean a major shift in doctrine to align themselves with their former bullying nemeses, the Fundamentalists.

  • bytebear

     http://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles?lang=eng

    Chapters 43-46

  • Zippy

     Does the Mormon church endorse millenialist “End Times” eschatology? Serious question, I don’t really know.

    Not according to the Mormons Amy Johnson Frykholm talked to in “Rapture Culture.” They didn’t recognize the concepts, though it’s debatable whether that’s caused by the concepts or by the L&J choice of vocabulary.

  • VMink

    And then over a thousand years, the Millennium, that the world is reigned in two places, Jerusalem and Missouri. That’s what the church says.

    I… wait, what?  I realize that Mormon belief holds that Eden was in Missouri but… uhm… no.  

    Further, I thought that the Mormon Church explicitly did not believe in a pre-tribulation rapture.  They believe in a Rapture but not that the Church will escape it.  http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?136120-LDS-and-the-Rapture-quot  There’s no way he can reconcile premillenial dispensationalism with Mormonism.  There isn’t.  That Romney, a Mormon bishop should be twisting his own faith to try to get evangelicals to believe he’s really one of them, is nothing short of astonishing.  This is the sort of theological gymnastics that we saw in the Avignon papacy and the selling of papal indulgences.  That’d be like if Archbishop Doyle started saying the Prosperity Gospel was OK in his book.

    Well, okay, so much for that metaphor.

    I agree with Morilore; it’s sad that of this theology, the only thing that could damage Romney in the eyes of conservative evangelicals is the idea that the Millenial Heaven will be ruled as if there were a Winter Palace in Jerusalem and a Summer Palace in Missouri.  Because this is the sort of thing that should be getting the LDS elders arching their snowy white brows and calling Romney immediately and asking him WTF? and quite publicly saying, “No, that’s not a tenet of our faith.”  If they had an ounce of integrity, anyway.

  • nerdycellist

    The difference of course is that to be an Archbishop (or even a parish priest) in the Catholic church, you have to have some sort of education, be able to read greek, latin, aramaic, what have you, etc. To be a Mormon Bishop, you have to have a penis and be popular enough to be “called”. There are no further qualifications. (To be a Mormon priest, you have to be 14 and have a penis.)

  • Victor

     (To be a Mormon priest, you have to be 14 and have a penis.)

    That’s not very nice nerdy cell is t!?

    Leave him, her and/or “IT” alone sinner vic cause this nerdy cell probably missed the ship after Halloween just like many of  U>S (usual sinning) godly cells who forgot to fallow GOD’s various Pro Cre a “t” ion, I mean creation of Angel Cells that was sent by “Father Time”.

       http://www.americancatholic.org/features/saintofday/default.aspx 

    Hey folks! You will pray, pray and then pray somemore for Victor!

    Peace

  • bytebear

     Christ will reign from Jerusalem, and Zion, the new Jerusalem.  You didn’t really think the New Jerusalem was the same as the old Jerusalem, did you?

  • Tricksterson

    “That’d be like if Archbishop Doyle started saying the Prosperity Gospel was okay in his book”

    Read  Render Unto Rome: The Secret Life of Money in the Catholic Church by Jason Berry and you’ll see that bishops and cardinals have no problem with the Prosperity Gospel, at least applying it to their own lives.

  • Hello_World

    Really? What do they believe then? As far as I know, Romney is correct.

  • Carstonio

    Does Mormonism really have an End Times theology? During the whole campaign, he’s sounded almost desperate to capture and retain the allegiance of evangelicals, who have been long hostile to his denomination.

    Also, I misread the title first as “The Glorious Awakening,” which sound like the title of a D.H. Lawrence novel.

  • aunursa

    What I want to know is:

    Why weren’t there any Mormon characters in the Left Behind series?

  • Magic_Cracker

    They lit out on their Battlestar’s prior to the rapture.

  • WalterC

     Because after getting nearly everything wrong about Catholics, Jews, atheists, journalists, pilots, soldiers, college students, people who work for the UN, doctors, secretaries, politicians, and EMTs, Jenkins was just too plain tired to figure out how to insult and demean Mormons.

  • Tricksterson

    You forgot homosexuals and uppity women.

  • http://twitter.com/AbelUndercity Abel Undercity

    Mitt Romney: Cynical Proteanism We Can Believe In!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alan-Alexander/502988241 Alan Alexander

    There’s a part of me that hopes that, should R-Money win, he will actually turn out to be the Antichrist. I’ve believed for years that if the Rapture and the Antichrist and all that crap did turn out to be real, then the Antichrist would probably be a conservative Republican President who came to power primarily through the votes of fundamentalist Christians. If the stakes weren’t so high, I would be laughing openly at fundies who are voting for someone who they privately think is the Antichrist because that’s better than a black Democrat who wants to provide decent health care for poor people. 

  • Victor

    (((If you don’t like it, you can always go back to being an ignorant bigot. Christmas is just around the corner. )))

    I don’t get “IT”? Just because some Christians believe that GOD (Good Old Dad) doesn’t believe in Adam and Steve and that the early followers of Christ and His Angels created The Blessed Sacrament of Marriage to be only between a Man and a Woman because that’s the WAY “IT” BEGAN and in so many WayS, Ya Way! I ask ya,  why are we bigots for believing in Christmas, The Birth of Jesus, The Chosen “ONE” and…..

    And just a cotton picking minute! We slaves also believe that The Sacrament of Marriage was created for procreation by GOD so there! Put that in your pipe and smoke “IT”!

    STOP “IT” GUYS! Forget about dividing and conquering cause we Christians are not going to fall for that! Are we Victor? I mean sinner vic?

    Quit while you skitsos still believe that you’re a head! If truth be known,  you’re nothing butt a bunch of Annoying Super Sinning cells who should be flushed down Victor’s trone if ya get my drift and beside you’re not even in the right place when “IT” comes to posting this so in other “Word” you spiritual reality cells are all way off topic again! :(

    I hear ya folks! There’s nothing wrong with Victor, “IT’s” the rest of the world. :)

  • JustoneK

    No, no, we don’t all believe that.  And we’re generally not the side doing the excluding.

  • Hth

    The non-parallel construction there kinda bothers me:  Missouri is loads bigger than Jerusalem.  If you’re getting that specific, why not just go on and nail down the details?  Will Christ’s summer home be in Springfield?  Branson?  Joplin?  I think if I were God, I’d like to be headquartered in UMC’s Memorial Union.  How far are my parents going to have to commute to shake Jesus’s hand after the Rapture, is basically what I’m asking. 

  • Carstonio

     Now I imagine Jesus having his own Slouching Toward Bethlehem dinner theater in either Branson or Pigeon Forge.

  • bytebear

     Jackson County. 

  • http://www.oliviareviews.com/ PepperjackCandy

    Will Christ’s summer home be in Springfield?  Branson?  Joplin?

     That was my first thought.

    Okay, actually my choice of locations was St. Louis, Kansas City, and Hannibal.

    Branson did occur to me later, though.

  • aunursa

    If you’re getting that specific, why not just go on and nail down the details? Will Christ’s summer home be in Springfield? Branson? Joplin?

    I’m guessing it would be in Far West … with Independence as the backup location.

  • Andrea

    This post and its comments have truly been the highlight of my afternoon.

  • http://jamoche.dreamwidth.org/ Jamoche

    Glorious…Appearing? This is a usage of the word with which I am not familiar. What’s wrong with “Appearance”?

  • Jim Roberts

    At the time the KJV was written, “appearance” had the connotation of being an act undertaken for show or pomp, often with the idea that the moment presented is in some way false. This is partly retained in its modern use – “I don’t want to go to the party, but I’ll make an appearance.” As a noun, “appearing,” had the idea of something already present coming into view. The latter was, at the time, the more suitable noun, and has retained its cachet for some time.

  • The_L

    Left Behind title.

  • http://jamoche.dreamwidth.org/ Jamoche

    I know, it just hit me for the first time.

  • rizzo

    Missouri?  That’s…random…

  • VMink

    Missouri is where the Mormons believe the Garden of Eden was/is.  Not too sure if it still exists in their theology, but in Romney’s theology it apparently does or will.

  • flat

    “The force is an energy field created by all living things, it surrounds us, it
    penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together” – Obi-Wan kenobi

    “The snark is an energy field created by all living things, it surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together” – me

  • P J Evans

     I thought duct tape was what bound the universe together – it has a light side and a dark side, too. *g*

  • WalterC

    It is really interesting though. How many other “first world” countries would a presidential candidate ever be asked to talk about this or even be interested in discussing this topic with anyone in public?  Romney is running for President, no Sunday School teacher. I have no idea how he got onto this topic but I hope it is a one-time thing.

  • vsm

    There aren’t that many first world countries with presidents, and I’m pretty sure that if you ran for one in any of them as a Mormon, you’d get to answer many questions about your beliefs. You probably wouldn’t be asked for  a detailed explanation on how you think the world is going to end, though.

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    It is really interesting though. How many other “first world” countries would a presidential candidate ever be asked to talk about this or even be interested in discussing this topic with anyone in public?

    Speaking just for Lawless Unfreedonia here, when we’ve had Prime Ministers or Prime Ministerial candidates who say more about their religious faith than “yes, I believe in God and go to church now how about that local sports team” they tend to get looked at with shifty eyes by the wider populace.

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    Speaking just for Lawless Unfreedonia here, when we’ve had Prime Ministers or Prime Ministerial candidates who say more about their religious faith than “yes, I believe in God and go to church now how about that local sports team” they tend to get looked at with shifty eyes by the wider populace.

    Oh, how I wish that were true in the U.S. too… 

  • http://twitter.com/shutsumon Becka Sutton

    Ah another case of what my twitter friends have taken to calling Quantum Romneyism. Romney holds a position of all positions until observed by an audience at which point they collapse to match those of his audience. X-D

  • LL

    Quantum Romneyism … LOL. 

  • http://heathencritique.wordpress.com/ Ruby_Tea

    I have no trouble, NONE WHATSOEVER, picturing Paul Ryan zipping down the shoulder of I-94 during the apocalypse, ignoring injured civilians and congratulating himself on his driving and phone savvy as dials the car dealership to negotiate for those leather seats and CD player (you can listen to those new-fangled music-thingies!) now that the Milwaukee airport has been crispy-fried.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsec

    Also: Paul Ryan looks douchebaggy enough he could pass for Kirk Cameron Williams. :P

  • LoneWolf343

    What kind of gall does it take to lie about your religious beliefs?

  • EllieMurasaki

    None at all if one’s physical safety depends (as, for some folks, it does) on being thought to believe the same things as do people one sees every day.
    Which doesn’t excuse Romney the least little bit.

  • LoneWolf343

     *slaps forehead* Didn’t think of that. Shows that I am a white Christian in America, doesn’t it?

  • Ansel Silver

    He’s not lying, though. Why do you assume he’s lying? Anyone who says this Millennialist stuff is made up on the spot by Mitt Romney to gloss over the differences between his religion and that of Evangelicals and Fundamentalists is simply mistaken. It’s been present in the Mormon culture for decades, at least, and I’ve only met a vanishing few Mormons who don’t believe it.

  • Consumer Unit 5012

     He’s not lying, though. Why do you assume he’s lying?

    Conditioned reflex.

  • LoneWolf343

     “Why do you assume he’s lying?”

    His mouth is moving.

  • johndurbinn

    Mitt Rommey is the second cumming of jesus christ

  • EllieMurasaki

    Well Jesus should clean up his own damn splooge then. That’s just unsanitary.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jrandyowens Randy Owens

    Well, one thing’s for sure.  They’ll have Mark Hamill back as Luke.  After all, Weird Al told me so:

    But I know that I’ll be coming back some day
    I’ll be playing this part ’till I’m old and gray

    The long-term contract I had to sign
    Says I’ll be making these movies till the end of time
    Oh with my Yoda

  • Rowen

    Isn’t the Outer Darkness where Morgoth is bound?

  • http://shiftercat.livejournal.com/ ShifterCat

    …And I see a bunch of people got there ahead of me.

  • Carstonio

    If the new trilogy were set shortly after the first one, the flesh-and-blood characters would have to be recast, and I don’t know how fans would accept that. Another option is setting the new movies 35 years later* and using as many of the original cast members as possible, and I doubt Harrison Ford would be willing. My preference would be for setting the movie 50 to 70 years after Return of the Jedi.

    *Has it been that long? I was 10 when the original film came out.

  • Lunch Meat

    Personally, as a huge fan, if the choice is between a good new movie with good but new actors and no new movie at all, I’d take it. And if it ends up being a bad movie, well, we fans are really good at rejecting reality and substituting our own.

    On a side note, isn’t it a shame that Episode 1 never got made?

  • Parisienne

    On first-world countries with Presidents… in the one where I live, spouting this sort of stuff about the end of the world in public would really, really, *REALLY* not the way forward if you were hoping to get elected.

  • Victor

    “DISTANCE UNIT NOT SPEED UNIT”

    WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE VICTOR?

    I don’t know sinner vic! Maybe “IT” has something to do with this “BELOW”?

    http://www.americancatholic.org/features/saintofday/default.aspx

    GO FIGURE! :)

    PEACE

     

  • http://twitter.com/FearlessSon FearlessSon

    WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE VICTOR?

    NON-SEQUITUR!  

    http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/

    YEAH, I SAID IT!  :)

    SERENITY  

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    In Canada, Jean Chretien was known to be Catholic and occasionally referred to it, but generally in passing. I don’t even know what religion (if any) Paul Martin or Stephen Harper have, and even Harper doesn’t seem interested in trying to push a more religious/faith-based approach in politics.

    He IS very interested in acting without any consideration for the basics of democracy though, as judged from the omnibus bills he’s been trying to push through the Commons with little debate. (-_-)

  • http://shiftercat.livejournal.com/ ShifterCat

    Ehhh… there *is* Harper’s recent “I’m not in a position to prioritize a religion… but I’m going to do it anyway,” thing, concerning minority faith prison chaplains.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Oh, how fun. (>_<)

  • Launcifer

    Wait… hang on… so if Jesus Christ is going to form his own one-world government, does that make him the anti-Christ or have I gotten the threads confused again?


CLOSE | X

HIDE | X