‘We’re here to stay. We’re here to stay. We’re here to stay’

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“It’s offensive to me as a Christian, as a woman, and as someone with a brain.”

“Years of irrefutable scientific evidence go down the drain, when we right-wing Catholics (or evangelicals, like the ones running Hobby Lobby and Mardel) need to prove that women are primarily baby machines.”

“Father Piero Corsi of Liguria said in a Christmas bulletin that the rise in domestic violence in Italy was caused by women serving cold food, not looking after their children, not cleaning their home, acting arrogant, and dressing provocatively.”

“I’ve noticed that people’s interest in discussing or accounting for privilege may be inversely proportional to the amount they possess. Which can be sort of a problem.”

“Women are empowered in the religious wing of conservative thought –” which seems to be more than religious progressives are doing.”

“Proponents of the [Violence Against Women Act] hope to revive the law in the new Congress, starting from scratch, but in the meantime, there will be far fewer resources available for state and local governments to combat domestic violence.”

“No matter how broad the bipartisan support, no matter who gets hurt in the process, the politics of the right wing of their party always comes first.”

“The primary stated rationale for the House GOP’s opposition to a Senate-passed version of the VAWA (as opposed to less seemly, muted rationales involving a general hostility to feminism in any form) was an objection to the extension of rights to people in LGBT couples — who presumably deserve whatever they get after defying God’€™s Law –€” undocumented folk, and Native Americans.”

“The modesty doctrine revolves around the assumption that a man has a right to sex with every woman he finds attractive.”

I can’t put a lot of faith in your good faith.”

“So here I am, days away from my son’s sixth birthday, thinking about how we need to teach our boys not to rape, instead of cautioning our daughters on how not to get raped.”

“This was a medical service that is advantageous for both women and babies, so we thought it should be seriously considered.”

“Last month a woman whose baby had died en utero was coming to the clinic to have it removed. In an awful coincidence, that was the day, Watters said, when the pro-life demonstrators collected a children’s choir on the sidewalk to sing ‘Happy Birthday Dead Baby’ to anyone driving in.”

“I have found the misunderstanding about late-term abortion to be widespread even among many of those in the public health advocacy community.”

“Developments in women’s health care were disseminated via a national game of political telephone, with information about our menstrual cycles, contraceptive options, and pregnancies filtered through the fuzzy interpretation of conservative talk show hosts, religious officials, and candidates for public office.”

“Medical and other experts say some dispense scientifically flawed information, exaggerating abortion’s risks.”

“My real problem, here, is that harmful books like these are still popular in Christian circles.”

“If you’re screening partners for how good they are at modeling future behavior, date statisticians. If you’re looking for someone who cares more about serving you than about showing off their precision of their model of you, date someone who isn’t ashamed to ask about your preferences.”

 

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Whenever I see someone acting like you are right now I always imagine someone squinting like Mr. Magoo hopping up and down flapping their arms like a caricaturedly-angry cartoon character.

    You might stop to realize that for all that what you say about social perceptions of female-on-male violence is true, and the tendency to stereotype domestic violence as male on female is true, the way you’re carrying on from that to broadly slam the entire body of lived experiences of women in general, to the point of claiming that laws with the express intent of combatting misogyny are themselves misogynist–

    – and doing so with such fervor that I imagine myself wiping spittle off my monitor afterwards when I read your words

    You might want to do what men like to tell women to do, and take a chill pill.

  • Paul Durant

     When you can produce papers based on a large sample, that are in peer-reviewed journals, and haven’t been retracted. then you can qualify to claim that men are more abused than women.

    Point one proving you didn’t read: I didn’t say men were more abused than women. I said they were equal. You imagined I said men were more abused, because you wanted to imagine someone who was more morally satisfying to yell at.

    Point two, I already did that and you refused to acknowledge their existence. You came up with that “peer reviewed, not retracted, large sample” thing because you assume that, even though you made no effort to look into the facts I provided, they MUST have been wrong so they MUST have failed one of those criteria. 

    Here’s another one! This is a meta-analysis, in the peer-reviewed journal “Aggression and Violent Behavior”. It cites numerous studies that are themselves rigorous enough for citation. It also cites the “evidence” of the “patriarchal terrorism” paradigm and states why it is incomplete and faulty. 

    http://www.mediaradar.org/docs/Dutton_GenderParadigmInDV-Pt1.pdf 

    You are going to make up some reason this does not count. Your reason will be idiotic and in all likelihood not even accomplish what you want it to.

  • Water_Bear

    Not that I agree with him, I do support VAWA, but the Journal of Marriage and Family is a peer reviewed academic journal and a 14,000+ person sample size is absolutely gigantic for these purposes. I haven’t looked at their statistics or methodology, so it’s entirely possible it’s a BS study, but I’m not comfortable making that judgement sight-unseen.

  • Paul Durant


    the way you’re carrying on from that to broadly slam the entire body of lived experiences of women in general,
     

    Show me where I have done this. Right now. Back up your claim or admit you are making things up because you do not care enough to determine what I am actually saying.

    Feminism is not synonymous with womanhood, by the way, so that isn’t going to fly.

  • http://timothy.green.name/ Timothy (TRiG)

    That last link is good reading, but the comments are flipping scary!

    TRiG.

  • vsm

    The first time a non-drunk off her ass woman expressed her attraction to me, my first, panicked thought was that she must be a Soviet spy. This happened more than a decade after the fall of the USSR. Some self-esteem problems there, I think, along with too many Bond films during formative years.

  • Lori

     

    You engage with someone you imagined.

    It is fucking shameful.

     

    Tell it to your mirror Paul, because that’s the only place it needs to be said.

  • Lori

    The distinctions can be subtle, which is why speaking about it in generalities is such a problem. I think it behooves anyone in a long term relationship to know themselves well enough to recognize the difference, act accordingly and be honest about it. I don’t think it’s the kind of thing that an outsider can judge with any great accuracy.

  • Lori

     

    Show me where I have done this. Right now.  

    Have you paid any attention to the number of times that you say this? You’re like a belligerent drunk in a bar, or a spoiled child. It’s pathetic.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Incidentally that thing linked by Durant is a valid journal, printed under the Elsevier aegis.

  • Lori

     

    Also, “The feminist cannon”?

    Come on, dude. Spell check!

     

    You don’t understand, the feminist cannon is clearly the weapon women are using to abuse men.

  • Carstonio

    Heh. I imagined Thelma and Louise mounting it to the roof of their Thunderbird.

  • Carstonio

    If I didn’t know the woman well and she was trying to get me into bed, my inner dialogue would have sounded more like Woody Allen – what if she’s trying to get back at her boyfriend? What if she’s newly pregnant and wants to trap me into marriage? Not that most women would do either of those. It’s about fear of people in general.

    Why would the lack of intoxication be relevant? Is that supposed to be a variant of the sexist concept of “beer goggles.” I strongly suspect that’s a myth anyway. Alcohol lowers the inhibitions, but if one isn’t attracted to the person in the first place, i don’t see how intoxication would make one attracted to hir.

  • Paul Durant


    Have you paid any attention to the number of times that you say this? You’re like a belligerent drunk in a bar, or a spoiled child. It’s pathetic. 

    No, I am someone who is continually blamed for things that his opponents imagined, and every time I challenge you to substantiate your allegations, you fall back to attempting to ridicule and shame me. 

    Because you cannot actually substantiate your allegations. 

    Because they didn’t happen. 

    Because you are arguing with someone who lives inside your skull.

    So when I challenge you to show me where I have done the thing you accuse me of, remember that I actually can see that “you sound childish for asking this” means “I cannot actually substantiate this accusation, but I don’t want to admit I am accusing you of things I imagined.” So stop trying to dodge like that.

  • Lori

    No, I am someone who is continually blamed for things that his opponents imagined  

    What do all the situations in which you are continually blamed for things that your “opponents” imagined have in common Paul? Is it the opponents, or is it you?

    So when I challenge you to show me where I have done the thing you
    accuse me of, remember that I actually can see that “you sound childish
    for asking this” means “I cannot actually substantiate this accusation,
    but I don’t want to admit I am accusing you of things I imagined.” So
    stop trying to dodge like that. 

    Your powers of projection are truly awesome.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    And you think that makes you correct to belligerently jut your jaw out, metaphorically speaking, and type “Show me where I have done this. Right now.”?

    You’re as mulishly tone-deaf to human interaction as Rayford Steele is, because the way you act it’s your way or the highway.

  • Paul Durant

    What do all the situations in which you are continually blamed for things that your “opponents” imagined have in common Paul? Is it the opponents, or is it you? 

    Uh, the situations have YOU in common. The plural you. Like, the people, here, on this comment section, responding to me, and being continually dishonest about it. It’s usually the same handful of people, socially cued by each other to react to me as though I am a Bad Person Who Should Be Shamed. You reinforce your membership in the Elite And Morally Righteous Group by attacking what you imagine as a bad person who hates everything good and is dumb and so goddamn crazy. 

    Your powers of projection are truly awesome. 

    Would you cut out this “ha ha everything you say is projection” horseshit? You’re the one projecting, as in that is actually what you are doing in actuality, and yet I’m not hammering that nearly as much as you, who just takes every claim I make about the people dishonestly and thoughtlessly attacking me and say “ha ha you are talking about yourself” no matter how little sense it makes.I said you are not substantiating your accusations, and you said it was projection. Despite the fact that I am the only person here who is providing scientific citations for his claims.

    How does this make any fucking sense? I don’t avoid questions by attempting to ridicule and shame the person posing them, I address those who have substance, and those that don’t, I say “Show me when this actually happened” to demonstrate that the person cannot show that because they allegation has no substance. My entire problem is not allowing any of these compulsively dishonest accusations to go unaddressed. That’s why I keep hanging out in here with disgusting self-righteous hypocrites like you. For everyone’s sake, even if you’re not going to STOP being a disgusting self-righteous hypocrite who bullshits as naturally and thoughtlessly as mammals breathe, for fuck’s sake at LEAST hold back on the “you are projecting” horseshit for claims where it might THEORETICALLY make sense.

  • Paul Durant

    And you think that makes you correct to belligerently jut your jaw out, metaphorically speaking, and type “Show me where I have done this. Right now.”?
    You’re as mulishly tone-deaf to human interaction as Rayford Steele is, because the way you act it’s your way or the highway.
     

    “Okay, people are making accusations against you that are completely unsubstantiated because they are imagining wrongdoings to ascribe to you, but really, let’s focus on how this is your fault, because you’re too belligerent when calling people out on the fact they are openly lying about you in an attempt to shame and ridicule you and justify their continued support of bigotry!”

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Fished from the archives, by the way. Paul Durant is more interested in bludgeoning his way to being deemed correct than in engaging in any meaningful way.

    Hint: Pooh-pooh-ing “Schroedinger’s Rapist” is standard MRA dogma, because it goes part and parcel with their tendency to claim that women, en masse, “friend-zone” Nice Guys, “trap” men with pregnancies, and make false rape claims by the trainload.

  • AnonymousSam

    Here’s an accusation that’s not unsubstantiated: You’re a fucking asshole whose constant martyr card bullshit and vitriolic repugnance at this community would make you unwelcome regardless of what message you had. Take a hint and piss off.

  • Paul Durant

    I like how you cannot engage substantively with with what I say, so you bring up past incidences in which I was also unambiguously right and also belligerent in attacking your constant dishonesty, and then claim an imagined reason WHY I would say those things, and therefore say I must be dismissed.

    You do this very consistently. You and most of the other commenters here who shit on me for their self-righteous high. I say things backed up by facts, you act as if the facts don’t exist, I keep hammering them, and then you attack my motivation, or invent a motivation and attack it, so that you don’t have to talk about the facts.

    Hint: Engage with the facts, you lying piece of shit.

  • Madhabmatics

    Hey you evil feminists won’t believe my totally unbiased research

    *cites a guy who refers to feminists as “Worse than Mao,” talks about them having brainwashing camps, was fined 12,000 by the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal for sexual harassment and then blamed it on feminists*

  • vsm

    I added the part about balance-wrecking intoxication for historical accuracy. I did not suspect Soviet involvement during the first show of attention, which now that I think about it was actually a mild sexual assault.

  • Madhabmatics

    seriously the guy he is citing is crazier than he is, look at reviews of his book in peer-reviewed journals

  • Lori

    I address those who have substance  

    No, you don’t. People have now repeatedly told you the problems with the Scientific Studies That You Alone Are Citing. Everything you link to has problems. They don’t all have the same problem and not all the problems are equally large, but they all have problems. You are obviously highly motivated on this issue, so if those are the best that you can come up with it ought to be fairly clear what the problem is.

    Obviously it is not clear to you, in spite of the fact that it’s been explained more than once. Your lack of comprehension is not our problem.

     

    My entire problem is not allowing any of these compulsively dishonest
    accusations to go unaddressed. That’s why I keep hanging out in here
    with disgusting self-righteous hypocrites like you.     

    Of course. There can’t be any reason other than compulsive dishonesty for people not wanting to deal with you.

  • Paul Durant

    Go back to WDDP.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    You won’t get an argument from me that female-on-male domestic violence is generally underreported for sociologically explainable reasons that originate in sexual dimorphism and perceptions of relative strength or weakness emanating thereof.

    I mostly quibble with the notion that every single study is equally reliable in the massive bibliography you quoted, but that isn’t the real meat and potatoes.

    What is, is that you will get an argument about your tactics and how you choose to behave around this here blog when you get motoring on about feminism.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Sorry, who?

  • Paul Durant


    No, you don’t. People have now repeatedly told you the problems with the Scientific Studies That You Alone Are Citing.
     

    No. People repeatedly ASSERT that there are problems, and therefore should be dismissed, but there have only been two instances in which someone actually tried to substantiate them. I responded. You saw one of them in this thread. The claim of “problems” did not invalidate the research; he looked at three papers, claimed a study with a gargantuan sample size wasn’t big enough, and claimed that since the second contradicted some claim I never made and he imagined, it didn’t count. Facts matter. Him saying “there’s problems” is not sufficient to discredit them, when his claim is insufficient. Me saying his claim is insufficient, and why, is not a failing on my part.

    Of course. There can’t be any reason other than compulsive dishonesty for people not wanting to deal with you.

    Compulsive dishonesty is not an imagined reason not to deal with me. It is the behavior directly shown here wherein I am continually accused of things I never said or did, ascribed values I do not hold, attacked for motivations that are not mine, and blamed for the behaviors of my opponents.

  • Lori

     

    the first at least has more than enough for a statistically
    representative sample (it’s seven times the amount of likely voters that
    need to be polled for such a sample!),   

    Do you actually not realize that statistically significant sample size for the kind of study you’re linking to has little to nothing to do with statistically significant sample size for a poll of likely voters?

  • stardreamer42

    DNFTT.

    (Kinda late now, but still. Especially since he’s a known troll.)

  • Madhabmatics

    hey would you, the “author” of an rpg about little girls, like to praise sexualizing them again

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Actually, I looked at the entire list. If you seriously think I’m going to quote each and every single one when I can tell from looking that the majority involve sample sizes of less than 1000 people and have fairly noticeable fluctuations in violence-incidence rates from one paper to the next, you’re guilty of what you accuse me of doing: selective reading.

    Drawing the conclusion that the gender balance of violence-incidence is equal may be valid, but given considerable fluctuations in the percentages I would be a lot more inclined to weight the results by the sample size involved.

  • Paul Durant


    hey would you, the “author” of an rpg about little girls, like to praise sexualizing them again

    hey would you, a genuinely repulsive human being, like to substantiate your allegation? or will you admit that you just imagined it because here, in this “discussion” were you are attacking someone for opposing feminist orthodoxy, you thought it appropriate to throw in “plus you like a thing that’s for girls, that means you must be a creeper or pedophile!”

  • Lori

     

    Uh, the situations have YOU in common. The plural you. Like, the people,
    here, on this comment section, responding to me, and being continually
    dishonest about it. It’s usually the same handful of people, socially
    cued by each other to react to me as though I am a Bad Person Who Should
    Be Shamed. You reinforce your membership in the Elite And Morally
    Righteous Group by attacking what you imagine as a bad person who hates
    everything good and is dumb and so goddamn crazy. 

    So this is the only place that you’re “continually” blamed for things you didn’t do? Nowhere else? Or are you saying that it happens in other places where the people happen to be just like us?

    You need to rethink your notion about the common issue in either case.

  • Madhabmatics

     Dr. Don Dutton, the writer of the article Huitzil here linked. He’s completely bonkers, and it’s easy to see where Huitzil gets his “Feminsts are in control of Western Society and using it to make men slaves” conspiracy theories once you read one of his books that is 2% scholarship, 98% talking about how communism is absolutely liberating compared to the hellish feminist conspiracy.

  • Madhabmatics

    Yo it’s not the “I’m into a thing for little girls” that is bad, it was “I am into little girls” plus |I threatened to kill myself if I couldn’t talk about little girls on an rpg forum” plus”I am into Loli fetish sex and if you aren’t then you are hitler” and also “I think drawn child pornography is fine” – you know, those four things you did, on the internet.

  • Paul Durant


    Drawing the conclusion that the gender balance of violence-incidence is equal may be valid, but given considerable fluctuations in the percentages I would be a lot more inclined to weight the results by the sample size involved.
     

    And were I citing them to give a concrete percentage of how many relationships, overall, contain domestic violence, this would be a valid concern.

    But they all say that, regardless of the proportion of relationships which they found to be abusive, men and women commit abuse equally. You can weight them by sample size, and they say the same thing: gender perpetration of domestic violence is symmetrical.

  • Paul Durant


    He’s completely bonkers, and it’s easy to see where Huitzil gets his “Feminsts are in control of Western Society and using it to make men slaves” conspiracy theories
    Yeah, this is another thing you made up, because you are a liar. You’re not even like the others, who do so reflexively because they so strongly associate the ideology of feminism with Always Being Right that when presented with evidence to the contrary they automatically fabricate a reason why the evidence is wrong and the person presenting it is a bad person who should be shamed. You’re just an incredibly goony asshole.

    Go back to WDDP.

  • Madhabmatics

     He’s been run of RPGNet, Somethingawful, and some My Little Pony fan communities, so we are apparently in good company

  • Madhabmatics

     dude you literally spent the last thread you melted down in arguing that there was a feminist conspiracy in the sciences to cover up male birth control

    in what world is that ~not~ a conspiracy theory

  • Lori

     

    Compulsive dishonesty is not an imagined reason not to deal with me. It
    is the behavior directly shown here wherein I am continually accused of
    things I never said or did, ascribed values I do not hold, attacked for
    motivations that are not mine, and blamed for the behaviors of my
    opponents.  

    So it’s obviously true that we all disagree with you because we’re socially cuing off each other and signalling that you should be attacked, but the fact that you use all kinds of MRA speak is totally coincidental and it’s wrong of us to form any opinions about your motivations based on their usage? Because you are the last honest man, fighting a lonely battle for truth and justice against the enormous power of the arrayed forces of feminism, right?

    Sure, that totally makes sense.

     

    You saw that I opposed VAWA and instantly you stopped paying
    attention to what I actually said. You thought “This person opposes
    VAWA, so they must be an MRA, which is the same thing as a misogynist.”
    Then you mentally substituted your funhouse-mirror distortion of what an
    MRA must be arguing in place of the words I actually said.   

    No Paul, I saw your reasoning for opposing the VAWA and said, “Here comes Paul’s MRA crap again. I wonder if we can head it off at the pass ? That shit was seriously a waste of time that last 2 or 3 times he dragged a thread through it and it’s getting old.”

    I said that because this is not your first trip down MRA lane. Stop trying to act as if each round of bullshit is some totally new thing, unconnected to our previous experience with you.

  • Paul Durant

    That third one is something you made up, completely, because you are a liar. Ever notice how the only thing you do is introduce things external to the argument in an attempt to shame me? And the things you introduce are usually made up or grotesquely out of context?  Because you’re a terrible person. 

    Go ahead, tell me again how liking something for little girls means I am a defective person, or how the fact I struggle with severe depression means I should me ridiculed and all things I say dismissed. I would say I anticipate the mental gymnastics Lori and EllieMurasaki would use to justify seeing you do this and not attacking you, but they won’t even try to justify it. The fact that you’re being a detestable human being while attacking me means the whole “detestable” thing will not even cross their minds.

  • Lori

     

    And were I citing them to give a concrete percentage of how many
    relationships, overall, contain domestic violence, this would be a valid
    concern.   

    So the studies you cited were not intended to back up your repeated claims that men and women are equal victims of abuse?

  • Lori

     There are times when I really wish Fred was a bit more free with the ban hammer.

  • Paul Durant


    So it’s obviously true that we all disagree with you because we’re socially cuing off each other and signalling that you should be attacked, but the fact that you use all kinds of MRA speak is totally coincidental and it’s wrong of us to form any opinions about your motivations based on their usage? Because you are the last honest man, fighting a lonely battle for truth and justice against the enormous power of the arrayed forces of feminism, right?

    I use MRA speak because I am a gender egalitarian and that incorporates the MRM as well as actual sane advocates for women’s rights, whether or not they associate themselves with the name of feminism, who recognize that gender roles hurt everyone and cannot be unravelled without being understood. You think this is an instant well-poisoning dismissal because you, literally, have absolutely no idea what the MRM is or what it wants. You “know” it is full of neckbeards and fedoras who hate women and feel entitled to sex and etc etc etc because that is what feminists tell each other and they think that it must be true because, after all, anyone who thinks men might be disadvantaged in any capacity must be an evil misogynist. 

    In response to me saying this, you will find the examples of crazy misogynist MRA’s (and of course they exist) and say this is proof the whole movement is rotten. And then I will respond by bringing up the insane misandrist feminists who advocate for culling the male population or say that all hetero sex is rape or say transwomen are evil infiltrators from the patriarchy to destroy womynkind. And you will scoff at me and say “they aren’t real feminists, they don’t represent the group!” and won’t even realize the irony.

  • Paul Durant


    So the studies you cited were not intended to back up your repeated claims that men and women are equal victims of abuse?

    You should read the very next sentence in the post you quote.

  • Lori

     

    I would say I anticipate the mental gymnastics Lori and EllieMurasaki
    would use to justify seeing you do this and not attacking you, but they
    won’t even try to justify it.   

    I don’t have to justify it. This is between the two of you and it involves places I don’t post and shit I have no first hand knowledge of. There is no reason for me to get in the middle of it.

    I’m not going to defend you because I don’t know the truth. Same reason I’m not going to back Madhamatics up.

    However, because I can read I do know that Madhamatics did not accuse you of being a pervert for liking something for little girls.

  • Paul Durant

    However, because I can read I do know that Madhamatics did not accuse you of being a pervert for liking something for little girls.
    Actually he did, when he said that “into something for little girls” and “into little girls” were the same thing. Also, there’s the part where he was obviously shaming me for it, and the part where he mocked me for past struggle with depression, which are both plain as day. And you don’t care. It does not even register to you that this is behavior you would be utterly outraged at if it was not directed at someone you already disliked. 

  • Madhabmatics

     See, only because you have a persecution complex do you think “Being a brony” is the reason I am calling you out for sexualizing children. Instead of, you know, defending child pornography and melting down because someone criticized loli fetish stuff.

    defending child pornography while being hella focused on children is kinda obvious what’s going on dude, even if we aren’t counting your rpg


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