Women Ministers in the Catholic Church

Anglican Female Clergy

I have written in previous posts about the stated intention of certain Catholic bishops and high ranking clergy in the United Kingdom to actually discourage priestly vocations because they have a liberal, feminist agenda.

Their argument goes like this: “We have too many priests rather than too few. This means that the church is still incorrigibly clericalist. The laity have still not found their voice. Lay women especially have been excluded and marginalized. Therefore we will discourage priestly vocations–especially from Anglican clergy converts, ‘rigid’ young men who are orthodox in their beliefs, and anyone basically who doesn’t sign on to our seventies, polyester liberal agenda. Then we can pressure Rome to let us have women priests. But if Rome still won’t let us have women priests we won’t have any priests at all. Instead we’ll have laypeople running parishes and they can be lay women. We’ll make sure that the bishops appoint them and they are ‘our’ kind of women.”

I was told it is happening here in the USA as well, and here is proof. In the Diocese of San Jose they are appointing women ‘Ministers of Parish Life’ who will run the parish. A priest will visit to administer the sacraments. I expect the priest will not be there every Sunday to say Mass and certainly not every day for daily Mass. I am willing to be corrected, but I expect that means the female ‘Minister of Parish Life’ will be authorized to conduct “communion services” using the reserved sacrament.

Apart from the obvious retardation of such an idea (that the reserved sacrament is for lay people to help themselves to) they will take this inch and run a mile.

The lady “Minister of Parish Life” will wear a cassock and surplice and some sort of vestment which will be indistinguishable from a deacon’s or priest’s stole. She will light the candles, process in and conduct the communion service from behind the altar and it will look like a Mass for as much as most people will be able to see and understand. They’ll probably get around the prohibition of laity reading the gospel and preaching by allowing her to read a homily prepared by a priest, or they will simply say, “She is not preaching. She is sharing a few thoughts…”

Then the laity will pipe up and say, “Dorothy does everything the priest does! Why is it that she can’t say those few words of consecration? How unfair to Dorothy! How cruel and hurtful is this dreadful patriarchal Catholic church not to allow Dorothy to be ordained!” And Dorothy and her clergy supporters and her bishop will all look wounded and hurt and cry together and have a group hug and pretend to be victims.

Fasten your seatbelts. It’s coming to a diocese near you!

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/05496819581817926605 JFM

    What I don't get:1. Why to the Catholic priests seem the least concerned of everyone to guard the integrity of their office? They allow all this, enable all this, and it eats away that the very credibility and dignity of their own jobs!2. Why can't people see that female priests will NEVER encourage male involvement in church. I grew up with female Methodist youth ministers. They aleinate guys. You need male leadership in a way you will never need female leadership.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/12373317560249811006 Fr Longenecker

    I agree totally JFM, but believe it or not I have heard the argument from women Anglican clergy that "Having an attractive woman up front in church will attract men."This was seriously proposed by a woman in her fifties who was, shall we say, "pulchritudinously challenged."

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/03792937108732259684 priest’s wife

    wow- this is terrifying- Father- are you angry and bitter that you didn't bear children?

  • http://ofangelsandplants.wordpress.com/ ofangelsandplants

    Fr. LongeneckerI'm sorry, this is completely off topic, but I want to ask if my e-mail got through because I am getting some error messages and don't want to be accidentally spamming your inbox.ThanksKatherine Wu

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/10503510474554718305 Just another mad Catholic

    These bishops need to be sent to zimbabwe to learn some doctrine.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/00403184829256955768 Victoria

    Would/should Rome be concerned about this?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/12373317560249811006 Fr Longenecker

    Katherine Wu I did not receive an email from you. Try to connect through the contact page on my website…

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/13453839789288993467 Alli R

    It's too sad to believe, but the world in which we live let's even more bizarre things happen every day. The best remedy is prayer and speaking up in a polite way to our clergy (especially our bishops).Our hope is in Christ.Witness the fate of the Anglican Church. I do not understand why people who feel this way do not simply go to a Protostant church: it's already there.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/17284905121465747077 Steve

    So tired of the fourth-grade playground arguments about men not being able to pay attention if we were to have women priests, or men feeling alienated if we were to have women priests, or the woman priest in the front isn't good looking enough, so why in heck have women priests if they aren't all glamorous. All those arguments say a good deal more about the folks who suggest them than they do about women who believe the Holy Spirit is calling them to the ordained priesthood. Say the words "woman priest" and all of a sudden you hear from folks who feel that MEN are the people who have been oppressed and belittled for centuries in the Catholic church. Amazing.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/13453839789288993467 Alli R

    Steve,I am a Catholic woman who does not feel "belittled or oppressed" by the Catholic Church. I am well educated, thoughtful, and have studied the doctrines of the church for many years(though still don't claim to know much of it, so rich and vast a heritage as it is. I can,and do,think for myself. And yet, amazingly and by the grace of God, I believe, practice, and uphold all the the doctrines of the Church.The period of my life that was the darkest, was the time (for 16 years!) that I swallowed the "feminist agenda" whole. True freedom has always come from the tenets of the Catholic faith. It took me years of senseless and mistaken "rebellion" against the "chauvinistic, patriarchical, misogynistic and 'oppressive'" Church to realize that I had it all upsdide down. Catholicism has taught me to revere and understandd what it is to be a woman, and to respect men. Amazing indeed!

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/06354592772973677609 The young fogey

    Not news. The liberals have been doing this for years. Once saw one of those dreadful 'Catholic Update' bulletin inserts that was pretty blatant about it, with nearly identical drawings of a Mass and one of these women's Mass-like things obviously to confuse people and soft-sell women's ordination (just like the abuse of extraordinary ministers at Communion). But this seems self-limiting, probably because the Holy Spirit guiding the church says the ordination of women is impossible. Or, other way round, you can harp about 'transgender' all you like but in the end it's still a man in a dress play-acting.I agree totally JFM, but believe it or not I have heard the argument from women Anglican clergy that "Having an attractive woman up front in church will attract men."Heh. Taking a cue from… Sarah Palin. Understandable, and rather surprising for a lib to think seeming common sense like that ('That's sexist!' meaning 'I'm hot enough to be offended when guys notice! Yay!'), but no, it doesn't work. Men don't like feminine religion as JFM said, or I like to see pretty women in evening dresses but not wear those outfits myself.Then there's the matter that Fr L alludes to with the photo and the minister who said that: that many such and their wannabes in the Catholic Church (minority living in Protestant countries) are old and/or unattractive. (Kids either bypass church or are conservative.)(Here in the US the Episcopal Church isn't the high-society power denomination any more – New York society is now Jewish for example – but a boutique denom whose ministers are middle-aged women and gay men. It's getting smaller by the day. Also the more liberal it gets, the richer and whiter it gets. Gay marriage is the world's whitest cause.)About the only Protestant tradition with clergywomen that thrives are the Pentecostals including many blacks. Otherwise they're conservative.

  • https://openid.aol.com/opaque/599043ee-cd84-11e0-8e8e-000f20980440 jscholar

    Father,I literally have had nightmares about this very scenario for several years now. In my dreams, I'm freaking out and yelling to the congregation that this is wrong. I always wake up stressed out after one of these dreams. As a result of these dreams, I pray a lot more for vocations and am extremely grateful every time I receive the sacraments from my parish priest.Thanks for your service and for writing this blog.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/11895692497752102851 Ben Anderson

    I happen to live in the Diocese of Rochester, NY where the progressive agenda is pushed like you wouldn't believe. Here are but a few of our horror stories:http://cleansingfiredor.com/2011/06/cleansing-fires-worst-hits/Instead of getting better, things are only getting worse here… that is until we get a new bishop hopefully within the year

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/09392961141770659933 rob

    This is the job description for the Minister of Pastoral Life from the St. Justin website. It will open a word document. http://tinyurl.com/3wyp4keIn some ways, it sound's like the innocuous Parish Administrator, a person who takes care of the day to day running of the parish (unplugging toilets, ordering light bulbs, bookkeeping) and in other ways, it sounds like something else. It's so confusing.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/11740482509910163332 Gail F

    This is the sort of thing that makes me sad. I am a woman in a lay ministry program at a Catholic seminary. Some people with my degree, men and women both, DO become "parish administrators," and in theory there is no reason why they shouldn't.In theory, parishes in areas without many priests could be run by a parish administrator who would handle all the day to day things FOR THE PRIEST who is in charge of multiple parishes. He can't run everything! In such a case, the P.A. could handle the staff (if there is any) or volunteers, run the office, make sure the bills get paid, make sure the census is taken and the buildings are open when they are supposed to be and everyone does what he/she is supposed to. Why not???I'll tell you why not. Because you will have some people — let's face it, a lot of them women — who would take such a job that is supposed to HELP the priest and use it to SUPPLANT the priest. And you know who suffers because of that? Everyone. And especially people who live in rural parishes or areas where there are not enough priests.My parish, which HAS a priest, already has a liturgy with communion on the one day we don't have mass. Why??? There is no need for it, but someone is in charge and gets to "preside." I don't know who because I have never gone — I don't want to know! When people have an inch, they take a mile. And that is why, though I would love to have the office of deaconess revived and to be one, I know full well it won't be and it shouldn't be for exactly that reason. Women can't be ordained and many would see it as a step toward ordination — in this generation, anyway. Maybe someday after all the womynpriests are gone.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/00287627190553545889 Bain Wellington

    "The person would be responsible for the pastoral care of the parish. Assisting priests would be available for the sacramental needs of the parish."Quoted from website of Diocese of San Jose.What Canon Law provides is that, where – because of a lack of priests – the diocesan bishop has decided that "participation in the exercise of the pastoral care of a parish is to be entrusted to … another person who is not a priest … he is to appoint some priest who, provided with the faculties and powers of a pastor, Is to direct the pastoral care." Can. 517 (2)San Jose seems to have got hold of the wrong end of the stick here. There is no room for an "assisting priest" who handles sacramental needs; what is permitted is someone (not a priest) to whom the pastoral care of a parish in entrusted, subject to the direction of a priest.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/04731842661336037433 Father Schnippel

    Which is all why, if at all possible, I am hesitant to let lay ministers approach the tabernacle, even to check how many hosts are present, because it should be something unique.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/00287627190553545889 Bain Wellington

    Apologies for a careless paraphrase which actually undermines the purpose of my previous post …. what is permitted is someone (not a priest) to whom "participation in the exercise of the pastoral care of a parish" is entrusted. Pastoral care, properly speaking, absolutely requires the exercise of the powers and faculties which only a priest possesses (see canons 528-530).

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/17638153767837382037 Joseph Reierson

    After reading the article on the Diocese of San Jose website, I interpreted this "Minister of Parish Life" appointment as a canonically sanctioned way to satisfy the desire of some females to serve the parish without the need to invoke Holy Orders. It seems to me that this is simply an "appointment" and not an "anointment" by the local bishop (remember to pray for them).Tangentially speaking, there doesn't seem to be any indication that only females can assume this MPL role and if we limit it to lay people age 55 or older we wouldn't be affecting the pool of young men hearing the call to the priesthood by any means.I'm not particularly fond of the MPL idea and not comfortable receiving Eucharist when a priest isn't present, but I can see merit for the MPL role if:1) the role is designed to directly serve the priests and bishops – especially in cases of a priest serving multiple parishes, and2) the said "ministries" are strictly administrative rather than sacramental – especially if it helps free up more time for priests to confer the Sacrament of Reconciliation.Is there any merit to the MPL idea or are we certain that it will eventually reduce to more protests for "women priests"?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/00287627190553545889 Bain Wellington

    In fact, there is no lack of priests at St Justin's: on the contrary, there are two "pastoral vicars" and a resident priest. Between them, they offer five Sunday Masses. It is not obvious how can.517(2) applies in this case. As far back as 1995, diocesan policy for the appointment of "ministers of parish life" was explicitly NOT predicated on clergy shortage (as the then bishop explained in a letter to priests – see the diocesan website, news event posted on 29 July 2011). The intent was to "delineate more closely the optimum use of priests in parochial ministry and establish a doctrinally and pastorally basis for lay leadership that has continued to mature and evolve since the Second Vatican Council and which has developed constructively In the brief history of our own diocese."

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/01306017321460701751 Paul Rodden

    Why are they always ugly?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/05003640516890793019 Savia

    Steve, We have never had more women theologians, administrators, lay ministers etc.Being a priest is not better than being anybody else.The people who say the Holy Spirit has called women to the priesthood, do not question why the same spirit told countless reformation churches to get rid of the priesthood and the sacraments.Is this the same spirit?Liberal Anglicans have been re-writting pray books for years. The Catholic-lite is now Protestant in denial.The Catholic church is already inclusive. Equality in dignity is not the same as equality in function.We all have different roles to play.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/06354592772973677609 The young fogey

    Paul Rodden: because mannish women want to do a man's job.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/10065798213115341398 Simon

    Father, you say that there is a "stated intention of certain Catholic bishops and high ranking clergy in the United Kingdom to actually discourage priestly vocations…." Could you give us some examples of such people?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/01306017321460701751 Paul Rodden

    @Young Fogey:OK. Good point.So, why don't they ever look like Robert Redford, George Clooney, Clint Eastwood, etc., either?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/06354592772973677609 The young fogey

    @Paul Rodden: because women with Redfordish etc. genes don't need the ego boost?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/01306017321460701751 Paul Rodden

    @SimonI'm sure Father's not into dishing the dirt but, being in England – and being acquainted with priests who know some bishops and their opinions quite well – I do not suspect him of lying.Our Bishop is vocally pro-women priests, but also, he's recently appointed an ex-Anglican priestette as the Director of our Diocesan Education Centre, in charge of Diocesan Catechesis.Although the previous incumbent openly taught that the church made mistakes in matters of doctrine and morals, this one's come in, all guns blazing, replacing the (already bad, but at least 'spiritual') New Testament component of the catechetical course with the Synoptic Problem and the very methods of 'Biblical Criticism' Pope Benedict decries in his 'Jesus of Nazareth'.She's on the way to creating something more ugly and ossified theologically than anything you'd find in the Crypt at Palermo…

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/01306017321460701751 Paul Rodden

    In fact…Thinking on it, there seems to be a resemblance with the look of Anglican Priestettes…Compare this:http://tinyurl.com/3n69o9pWith Spyglass, Cesspool, or whatever her name is…http://tinyurl.com/3fx2564

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/10065798213115341398 Simon

    @Paul I hope that in saying that you "do not suspect him of lying," you're not suggesting that I am charging him with any such thing. I hope that I'm misunderstanding you there, because I didn't say, imply, or think any such thing, and it would be absurd to wring such an idea from my comment. I simply took Father at his word. He said that it's a stated intention of certain prelates. Well, if that's so, then it has been said expressly and explicitly by one or more specific person(s); that's what the word means. I'd like to know who, because I'd like to read just what they've stated.I should not be thought to be a critic firing a veiled shot across Father's bows. Quite the contrary. The better we understand the modernists' arguments—the better acquainted we are with the proponents and the subterfuges in which they wrap the payload—the better equipped we are to resist their advance. Surely you realize that if one tries to argue this point with someone, offering a paraphrase by a critic (as I hope Father is) will be dismissed as a straw man, even if it is a perfectly good summary.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/01306017321460701751 Paul Rodden

    @Simon. Not at all! Sorry if I was misleading.I was suggesting more that they tend not to leave a 'biscuit-crumb trail' when they express some of their more extreme views, so mentioning names might be considered detraction.However, sometimes they say things overtly, thinking no-one minds.I normally lead an 'Ecumenical' Lenten Group. However this year, I was horrified that a Catholic Archbishop, who was one of the participants on the CD, clearly stated that he did not believe Christ founded a Church, amongst all sorts of other rubbish. He never once put the Catholic position with regard to Tradition, Sacraments, Eucharist, etc., but kowtowed to the Protestants who design and distribute the course.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/14163855804754963521 joan

    This is why Tradition with the Holy Mass celebrated in the EF form is most important and why restoring the Church in this way is essential.No NO.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/05003640516890793019 Savia

    Paul,There's a priest in Australia who claims that God himself does not exist.This is a why the modernists need to go back to sunday school, or be replaced by those who understand basic Catholic theology.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/12594214770417497135 Suburbanbanshee

    I've always been puzzled by the whole Communion service cult. I mean, if a parish can't have daily Mass, why don't they have daily (and hourly) Liturgy of the Hours instead? Why this leap from "stuff laypeople can easily do themselves" to "stuff laypeople need special authorization for"?And why do people insist on "leading" Communion services and Liturgy of the Hours held in church, from the Gospel lectern? It's not like we have a shortage of microphones, or difficulty in seeing folks standing down in the people's area down front or to the side. If it were up to me, only actual readings at Mass would be read from the lectern. And I wouldn't wear an alb, either, unless everybody else wore one too. It's stupid, so to denigrate the importance of all the lay congregation, when you're just a layperson yourself.(Totally okay with deacons leading from the sanctuary with their vestments on. In fact, they should. They're clergy.)

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/13595062317679462936 Mrs. McG

    Women priests will never happen because at that point the gates of hell will have prevailed against Christ's Church and He assured us that would not happen.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/18007803964164238284 Bethanie Ryan

    "Dorothy does everything the priest does! Why is it that she can't say those few words of consecration? How unfair to Dorothy! How cruel and hurtful is this dreadful patriarchal Catholic church not to allow Dorothy to be ordained!" Those "few words of consecration" which are the most important words of the Mass?!?! I agree that what they are doing in the UK is idiotic. We wish we had "too many" priests over here.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/10188238068927761034 Wade St. Onge

    Well argued. There was an excellent article in the Latin Mass magazine a number of years ago ("The Emasculation of the Priesthood", by Fr. James McLucas, Spring 1998) which does a superb job of why the hypothetical situation outlined by you at the end of the blog piece is such a threat to the priesthood. http://www.latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_emasculation.html

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/10188238068927761034 Wade St. Onge

    By the way, what is now going to happen in San Jose has been happening for almost two decades in Saskatchewan (Archdiocese of Regina and Diocese of Saskatoon).A lot of people on the blogosphere were shocked to hear it. I was like, "meh, that's old hat".

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/18138004129894177863 JARay

    A priest of my acquaintence visited New Zealand and he related to me an experience which he had had. He visited Arrowtown on the South Island and found the chapel there and its resident female Minister in Charge. She had just conducted a "Liturgy"….it did happen to be a Sunday and my priest friend told her that he could have said Mass there. There was a reasonable excuse in that neither he nor she knew each other and he certainly did not know that Mass had not been said there that day. She bristled! She left him in no doubt that she would not want to have been supplanted by a priest saying Mass!I happen to have visited Arrowtown myself and I know that it is one of several townships outside of Queenstown which have Catholic Chapels and which had Mass about once a month from the resident priest in Queenstown. When I was there, I attended the last Mass which the resident priest said in Queenstown because he was being moved by his bishop to another parish way down in the very South of New Zealand and the bishop simply did not have any priest to replace the one who was being moved! This resulted, of course, in about five different locations, each with a Catholic Chapel, all being denied Mass every Sunday because there was no priest within many miles! Hence the women taking over! AND resenting ANY priest who happened to be visiting the area.I would add, for those of you who do not know New Zealand, that Queenstown is one of the very most popular holiday resorts in the whole of New Zealand. It is a spectacularly beautiful location with stunning views which is why I was there, and Arrowtown is a very much smaller place but also very charming and attractive.I am not a New Zealander by the way! I live in Western Australia and the priest who told me this tale had been my Parish Priest for several years in my home parish.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/13453839789288993467 Alli R

    Savia,"…The Catholic Church is already inclusive. Equality in dignity is not the same as equality in function."Excellent point! Is that your own phrase? It's concise and easy to remember. I've written it down in my organizer, which I carry everywhere. When I'm discussing this issue, I often stumble over what to say and then think of how to respond hours later when it doesn't do me or anyone else any good. Now I'll just look it up in my daily planner! Thank you, I enjoyed your whole posting.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/06650218600354362877 COG

    All is the fault of backsliding, lukewarm Christian men. Women are simply reacting and moving in to fill the void that men have created by abdicating their roles and responsibilities in the Church and the family. In the U.S. men are too occupied with Golf, NFL, NCAA Div. 1 sports, boating, nascar, fishing, hunting, woodworking, classic cars, tennis, tractor pulls, NBA, MLB, hiking, rafting, climbing, RC planes/cars/boats, soccer, … the pursuits are endless. Church on Sunday is a hardship and during the week – forget about it. It's no different in the marriage; A women will take whatever a man leaves unattended, and tend to it – but then she owns it so back-off – can you blame them? I see a lot of comments here about these over-reaching women – indeed they are – but how about addressing the root cause.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/03792937108732259684 priest’s wife

    Father- I hope you understood my joke about being "bitter" about not bearing children- What I meant was that if women are angry that they can never be true priests, then men should be angry that they can never carry a child—my pride is getting the better of me, someone misunderstood me and I wanted you to know that I agree with you and the Church!

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/07216181850761924462 Peter

    This clueless little scheme can't end well. Pope John Paul II declared in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis that the Church does not have the authority to ordain women. The teaching in the letter has been determined to be infallible, and it cannot be changed. The bishops behind this stunt apparently are unaware of this, or they think that somehow they can go against dogma. Ultimately, any attempt to ordain women in the Catholic Church is going to fail miserably, although it may cause damage as it collapses.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/09392961141770659933 rob

    @ PeterThere are quite a number of priests in this diocese (San Jose) who think that female ordination is long overdue and can be accomplished by Papal fiat. They're in denial (or are selective in their acceptance of Papal Infallibility. Often when the documents come out, like Summorum Pontificum, they claim not to be aware of its publication! I can think of one priest who actually suggested that female ordination may be a viable solution to the male priest shortage. This priest teaches at St Patrick's Seminary!

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/06354592772973677609 The young fogey

    @Peter: The teaching in the letter has been determined to be infallible. Good to know. When and how was it determined?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/10188238068927761034 Wade St. Onge

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/10188238068927761034 Wade St. Onge

    I just realized that Fr. Longenecker's argument backfires.Listen to this: "Then the laity will pipe up and say, 'Dorothy does everything the priest does! Why is it that she can't say those few words of consecration? How unfair to Dorothy! How cruel and hurtful is this dreadful patriarchal Catholic church not to allow Dorothy to be ordained!' And Dorothy and her clergy supporters and her bishop will all look wounded and hurt and cry together and have a group hug and pretend to be victims."Now, let's compare this to the situation in parishes where there are pastoral provision priests in Roman Catholic parishes. "Then the laity will pipe up and say, 'The Church lets Fr. Longenecker function as a priest and do everything that Fr. Newman does. Why is it that Fr. Longenecker can be married but Fr. Newman cannot be? How unfair to Fr. Newman! How cruel and hurtful is this dreadful outdated Catholic Church not to allow Fr. Newman to be married!' And all their clergy supporters will all look wounded and hurt an cry together and have a group hug and pretend to be victims".And you know what? This has ALREADY come to a diocese near all of us.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/07216181850761924462 Peter

    @The young fogeyOrdinatio Sacerdotalis was issued on May 22, 1994. The letter itself was not issued as an ex cathedra statement, but the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith determined that the letter's contents were infallible dogma.There is a responsum ad dubium (response to a doubt) statement from October 28, 1995 issued by then-Cardinal Ratzinger that explains this further. Both this response and John Paul II's original letter can be found from the references in the Wikipedia page for Ordinatio Sacerdotalis (I'd post them here, but I'm not sure if external links are allowed).

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/06354592772973677609 The young fogey

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/06354592772973677609 The young fogey

    Thanks, Peter.BTW sometimes they are attractive, as in the case of the Anglican bishop and his pretty assistant, I think in Wales, who were married to other people but ran off together and now have secular jobs.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/05003640516890793019 Savia
  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/17691145638703824456 kkollwitz

    "then men should be angry that they can never carry a child"Well, I'm not angry, but I'm acutely aware that this fundamental life-bearing mystery is something I will never experience; and I regard that as a loss.Maybe wistful; but not angry.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/13453839789288993467 Alli R

    Savia,Thank you for the site. Since Father has been so busy and hasen't been posting, I'll have time to look it up :).

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/08002250043167371647 Paul Bachmeyer

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/08002250043167371647 Paul B

    Here's a different idea on the matter: part of the reason there are groups clamoring for female priests, and for parishes run by women, and any other proposal whereby the traditional role of men is replaced with one allowing (expecting) women to do instead, is actually because of a fundamental lack of understanding in our culture of what masculine and feminine means.I say that this argument about female priests goes a lot deeper than just the church and Sunday Mass – it is an underlying confusion touching nearly every part of our society.


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