Obama Refuses Perry's Letter

What kind of president is this?


All hat, no cattle

Gov. Rick Perry’s meeting at the Austin airport with President Barack Obama on border security lasted a mere 34 seconds, and Perry had to hand a letter on the issue to presidential adviser Valerie Jarrett because Obama declined to personally accept it.

That did not dissuade the governor from inviting Obama to come back to Texas and tour the border with him to get a first hand look at what Perry describes as the threat from Mexican drug cartels.

“Look, he’s got the letter. I suspect he’ll read it. I hope he responds to it,” Perry said. “This is way past partisanship or politics.”

Perry said Obama’s decision to send 1,200 troops to the entire border with Mexico was inadequate, particularly since only 286 are coming to Texas.

I guess it’s a president who believes he is a prince, not an executive, a president who thinks he is supposed to rule, rather than lead, and a president who dares not accept a letter from a Governor because then he won’t be able to say he never read it or hasn’t seen it.

And once again, one senses that Obama only wants to be the president of some of the nation, not all of it.

I don’t think he wants to be president, at all, frankly. And if that is true, I wish he’d stop, and resign, already. My younger son just lost his job yesterday, and since he wasn’t a public employee, no one currently in power will care about that, or about the fact that now both of my kids are out of work. But I care. The middle class squeeze is already on, over here. In January, when the Bush tax cuts are rescinded, it will get worse.

“Remaking America,” indeed!

Allahpundit has video


The Peasants Are Revolting!

This won’t help, btw.

About Elizabeth Scalia
  • JuliB

    I am STUNNED that he would treat a governor this way. Who does he think he is? Since I can’t even think anything nice, I will stop now.

    @Anthony – there’s a raging debate that’s been going on at neoneocon ‘s blog about whether knave or fool. Good reasons on both sides.

  • Last Sphere

    (“Presenting a false case to the world for war in Iraq based on WMD”)

    Please stop with the Democrat propaganda Zachriel.

    If Bush lied, then so did the U.N. with their 17 resolutions that demanded that Saddam disarm. Those resolutions were in place long before Bush and new ones were being created right up to the start of the war.

    Tell me, how was the U.N. accounting system of Saddam’s WMD so inaccurate? Because they clearly thought he had them.

    Or did the U.N. lie too?

    And if Bush did lie-

    then where is the huge Congressional investigation by the Democrats?

    After all the same self-righteous Democrats who yelled LIAR! LIAR! now control the House, the Senate, and The White House. And if it’s such a clear-cut case of deception- well then, what’s the hold up here Zach?

    This should be an easy slam-dunk for the Democrats. It should easily destroy the Republican Party for generations to come and as we all know, the Democrats love to launch endless investigations for pure political gain.

    So when can we expect those vital investigations to start Zach?

  • zmama

    P.Buchta: Have you looked into the reality for working families of the child tax credit being reduced in 2011 to $500 from this year’s $1000?

    Also look into the return of the marriage penalty.

    Families earning under $250,000 are still going to be hit hard come Jan 1, 2011. Guess you can spend the next few months stocking up on Koolaid!

  • Last Sphere

    (“The tax increase will not affect those making under $250,000 a year.”)

    A significant percentage of those making $250,000 dollars a year are small business owners.

    What effects them effects all of their employees, their community, their state, and by extension our entire country.

    Wealth redistribution may raise the benefits for a few, but the overall result is a significantly lower standard of living for all.

  • zmama

    P Buchta:The 10% tax bracket will be eliminated as of Jan. 1, 2011 making the lowest tax bracket 15%. So that means some people making under $250,000 will see their taxes rise.

  • Andrew B

    Obama is the sort of smug, humorless, stuck-up prig that used to be lampooned–rather than lauded–by Hollywood. Watch “Beau Geste” to see what I mean.

    It is this condescending attitude that I find to be the President’s least-appealing feature. OK, pick my pocket, take away my choice of healthcare, deny my children a prosperous future AND ask me to foot the bill, but please, PLEASE don’t lecture me while doing it. Even a mob enforcer would have the decency to beat me up and take my stuff without telling me I should thank him for it.

  • dry valleys

    Personally I oppose Republicans because I don’t support neoliberalism (I know what it does to communities like the one I grew up in), social conservatism, religion, or foreign “policy” imperialism. Their reaction to the Iran election sealed it. Because I am someone who genuinely condemns theocracy & wants to combat it, I want to do it in a way that works, & none of what conservatives have said about that situation or any other sounds even half way workable.

    I do not like people who launch a will-you-condemnathon every 5 minutes & demand that we support their pet policy, generally an ultra-hawkish one, or else we don’t care. Maybe it’s because we do care that we don’t support policies that we think won’t benefit anyone.

    In one of the few good decisions it made (although even then it was only undoing the harm done by its “light touch” regulation), the last British government raised the top rate of tax to 50%, which was right because it was investment banks which had awarded themselves fortunes on no valid basis who brought us to our knees in the recession.

    Bankers complained about how they would leave the country. Well, in February 2009 many of us would have been glad to see them take their fraudulent, criminal activities to Switzerland or whatever. But in fact it has had no recognisable effect at all, as studies show, & it has been more or less forgotten by leading businesses that the top rate used to be lower. Suppose a similar thing happened in America, what would you say if in 5 years this catastophe turned out not to have happened?

    What I also wonder about is what Republicans will say & do if they get nowhere in November. Just about everything they say is based on the assumption that Obama is unpopular & the public reject his policies. If this then turns out not to happen there will certainly be some about turns.

  • dry valleys

    Yes, I do get annoyed particularly when I think about how the banks just carry on as if it was still 2007, even though the old days weren’t all that good behind the mask. I know I have been negative in recent statements, it’s just there have been no recent discussion that I’ve had anything encouraging to say. Which I suppose is quite strange.

  • Barbara

    The ascendency of free wheeling, anti regulatory and small goverment conservative ideology ushered in the era of the Wall Street robber barrons and gave them carte blanche to steal the wealth of the nation right out from under our noses. Blame them for our children’s dire prospects. And storm their castles.

    [And yet both my sons were working in 2006. Now neither of them are. The Democrats have controlled congress since 2006. They're responsible for nothing? admin]

  • http://vita-nostra-in-ecclesia.blogspot.com/ Bender

    Barbara — how much money have those Wall Street robber barrons ever taken from you, and how often have they forced themselves upon you?

    In my case, none and never.

    Meanwhile, the government has its grubby paws all over everything I do and it has forcibly taken well over a $100,000 from me, and probably closer to $200,000 over the course of my working years. Right now, for every extra two dollars I make in my small business, I have to kick over one dollar to the government. Wall Street has never stolen half of my wages from me. Wall Street has never acted as if it has ownership of my labors, making me its slave.

  • Mary

    Two of my sons moved in with us because of job losses. Both are engineers. Both are looking hard, but the job market is getting worse and worse. The elites don’t care. They have their money and wall street investments. What do they care?

  • Pingback: Minus 22: Tie for All-Time Low for Obama’s Presidential Approval Index, but Obama’s Pick of Bennet for CO Senate Race Beat Clinton’s « Frugal Café Blog Zone

  • Last Sphere

    A little history for you dry valleys,

    The Subprime mortgage crisis that was at the root of the 2008 world market collapse was the resulting fruits of three decades of Liberal social engineering policies in the housing market.

    Starting with the Community Reinvestment Act from the Carter Admin in 1977 that acted as a veiled threat for discrimination lawsuits against any bank that refused to extended a mortgage to any minority regardless of their ability to repay.

    Those same policies were institutionalized by government-sponsored enterprise like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Ginnie Mae. And in the late 90′s those reckless and corrupt loans were wrapped up into derivatives with the full blessing and encouragement of The Clinton Admin and released onto the world market by Bear Stearns. It should also be noted that it was President Clinton who shortly thereafter signed into law the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act which had initially introduced banking reforms that were designed to control speculation (the lending of money or the purchase of assets, equity or debt but in a manner that has not been given thorough analysis or is deemed to have low margin of safety or a significant risk of the loss of the principal investment.)

    And since the 2008 collapse:

    So far, propping up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac by providing them with the money to cover losses and stay in business has cost taxpayers $145 billion.

    The Congressional Budget Office puts the cost at $389 billion through 2019. Barclays Capital says the cost could rise to as much as $500 billion if housing prices fall by 20% from the levels of the end of 2009 and default rates triple.

    Tell me again how well Liberal policies work and how evil and greedy Big Banks are.

  • Ellen

    I’m working but my salary is stagnant. My son is working, but since he is a salesman, his income is down (businesses aren’t as busy as they once were). My daughter and son-in-law are working but their salaries are stagnant. We are grateful to be working, but the optomism just isn’t there.

  • Diane

    I have read all your comments on my comment about bush and the 8 years of hell.

    I will still stand for the Democratic party and am a Christian(Catholic) and a Liberal.

    I don’t like being lied into a war, nor torture done in my name.
    TARP money was voted in during the bush presidency(please look it up, it is a fact).
    The tax cuts went to the wealthy.
    I too have child who has no job.
    I like the fact that everybody will have health care and access to it, including our unemployed children.
    I was a former school nurse and I am glad teacher will be hired to teach All children.
    If you do not want big government, they stay out of bedrooms, and woman’s health clinics.
    I don’t like abortions, but they are necessary on occasions.
    And please. The deficit? Just look at the bush years. He started with a surplus from Clinton.
    And bush wanted immigration reform, just not the immigration reform wanted by the tea baggers. One would have thought after 9/1, that securing our borders would have been a priority, but no, we went to war with Sadam Hussein. No border securing during the 6 years of the republican dominated years.
    I know that I will never convince you that your views are wrong, as you would like to convince me that mine are.
    It was fun reading this blog, but after stating my views, I’m not sure I would be accepted here.
    I read all different types of blogs not just Kos.
    What is wrong with reading other types of blogs? I will not however watch Fox news. I find that they lie and really really subvert the truth. I don’t think that 8 years of disastrous policies can be undone in 2 years.
    And I will continue to pray that republicans never gain control of the White House for a good long while
    Sincerely,
    Diane

    [Diane, quick questions - how were you "lied into war" when Bush was using the exact same intel information (Hillary confirmed it) as the Clintons did, and the Dems, from 1998, said was true. The Tarp money spent under Bush - which party was in control of congress when that passed? Do you know? By all means be a loyal democrat all you want. But let's at least agree that the Democrats have been in control of the congress since January of 2007, shall we? And that if Bush lied about the WMD, then Clinton did too? Find new things to complain about instead of this stale stuff, please -admin]

  • http://zachriel.blogspot.com/2005/07/liberal-v-conservative.html Zachriel

    Zachriel: Presenting a false case to the world for war in Iraq based on WMD

    -admin: Oh, Lord you’re NOT going to bring up “Bush lied, people died” again and try to tell us AGAIN, that believing the same intelligence that Clinton believed, that Kennedy believed, that Kerry believed, that Albright believed in 1998 is “lying” are you?

    Please read it again. Bush (and his inner circle) were sure that Saddam had WMD, but presented a weak and inconsistent case (which was false), believing that once they toppled the regime, they could find the smoking gun. Starting a war based on a false premise severly weakened the U.S. position. It damaged alliances, strengthened the enemy, made fools of those who risked standing with the Americans, and has led to continuing death and instability.

    There’s just no way to spin this as anything other than a debacle of the highest order.

    It’s ironic that in your linked article from 2007, you ballyhoo the economy under Bush — just before the fiscal collapse.

    -admin: I do think that Bush should have been impeached, so that might comfort you.

    Impeaching Bush for the war in Iraq would not be a valid use of that power under the U.S. Constitution. He had the approval of Congress and the American people. He let them down.

  • Guido

    Diane says:
    “I don’t like abortions, but they are necessary on occasions”

    Necessary for whom? For the baby? Have you ever asked a baby if his/her abortion was necessary? Should you have been aborted? Can I determine on what “occation” that would have been necessary? My be if we could have predicted that you would have unemployed offspring

    You just don’t beleave you where a person while in your mother’s womb. So whatever you are: don’t call yourself Catholic. If you need help, we can help you put a name to your “beliefe system”, but Catholic it aint. maybe you are: “Barbaric”. Just a suggestion.

  • Last Sphere

    (Diane wrote – ““I don’t like abortions, but they are necessary on occasions”)

    Really Diane?

    And where do you find that in The Catechism?

    Here’s a hint: YOU DON”T

    You’re not a Catholic Diane.

    You’re a Liberal who’s falsely hiding behind the word “Catholic”.

    Please stop abusing my Church.

    [You know, I am really starting to hate it when people call each other RINOS and CINOS, or declare who is or is not Catholic. Please stop that. -admin]

  • Joe

    “I was a former school nurse and I am glad teacher will be hired to teach All children.”

    As a teacher myself, and in the aftermath of the Palin eyeroll, can I simply say that while there are great teachers, there are plenty who are not so great, and it is no more a sainted occupation than a wall street exec or a bartender. And I think that being in the classroom so long must damage our political judgment, based on how many are flaming Dems.

  • Rhinestone Suderman

    Valleys, please take a look at the Anchoress’ response to me, in Post #45, where she nicely sums up recent history.

    The fact is, the Democrats have been in power for the past few years. What’s happening now, is happening on their watch: not Bush’s, not the Republicans, or all those other allegedly awful conservative types; theirs. And they aren’t doing a very good job. Where I live, stores are closing, a good friend just had to walk away from her house and joblessness is everywhere.

    And what are the Democrats doing to combat theocracy? Obama has refused to stand up to the Iranian mullahs about the bomb, and he refused to support the Iranian Green Revolution, where the Iranians themselves were demanding their freedom; he’s alienated our ally Israel, while bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia, and supporting Hamas, and the Palestinians, changing NASA’s mission from getting America into space to making Moslems feel good about themselves. . . the list goes on! I don’t see how any of this is standing up to theocracy; furthermore, his Democrat supporters seem fairly pleased with this!

  • http://vita-nostra-in-ecclesia.blogspot.com/ Bender

    I’m not sure I would be accepted here

    Well, I for one would accept you Diane, but that litany is not really necessary. We’ve all heard and read those things about Chimpy Bushitler, et al. a million times. Certainly you would be accepted a great deal more than many of the commenters here would be accepted by the Party of Slavery, Secession, and Segregation, which you say you will stand for.

  • Last Sphere

    (Zachriel wrote – “Bush (and his inner circle) were sure that Saddam had WMD, but presented a weak and inconsistent case (which was false)

    You completely ignored my response (at comment #52) to this continued Democrat propaganda didn’t you Zach.

    I’m not surprised.

    Pre-programmed Liberal talking points are so much easier to mindlessly repeat as opposed to open-minded critical analysis based on reality.

  • Jeff

    You not only can’t be catholic and be “pro-choice”; you can’t be a civilized human being and be pro-choice.

  • Robert

    I’m about to be a freshman in college and read this blog for the Catholic perspective it offers, one that is entirely refreshing.

    I seek out this perspective in print and on the internet, because it is so counter the prevailing winds of news and opinion writing. Reading these political posts another perspective, though, I can’t help but wish for another perspective.

    There is almost certainly another side to this story, and, even if there is not, there are certainly many topics that could be written on that would portray Obama in a positive light. Of course, this is the Anchoress’ blog, and I certainly don’t begrudge any personal political bent or focus. I believe the blog would be enriched by a different political perspective, however.

    (I do not think that the conservative viewpoint and mindset is the only one appropriate for a Catholic. There are non-negotiables, of course, like being pro-life, but there are other issues where there is more room for debate. I am sometimes dismayed when I read some of these blogs and postings and see an overwhelming conservative/neocon response to issues, opinions that I think sometimes co-opt a reasoned Catholic view. I’ve been reading a bit about Dorothy Day, and see her as an example of someone who was deeply Catholic, but who would probably be placed far on the left of the political spectrum today.)

    [Welcome. In fact, I'm not a conservative, I'm a classical liberal who is generally in agreement with the US Bishops (abortion, capital punishment, immigration, etc), and I don't think Catholicism is compatible with modern liberalism or for that matter, extreme conservatism. All of these labels are insufficient and maddening and limiting. Dorothy Day is someone I admire a lot but I doubt she'd be considered far left, today. Politics aside she referred to herself as "an obedient daughter of the church" and that took precedence over her politics. My faith takes precedence, too. That doesn't stop me from opining that this president seems not to understand presidential decorum. I do appreciate your conceding, however, that my blog is permitted to reflect my own opinions and perspectives! :-) -admin]

  • http://vita-nostra-in-ecclesia.blogspot.com/ Bender

    Yeah, that Bush is a real SOB.

  • Robert

    “(Diane wrote – ““I don’t like abortions, but they are necessary on occasions”)

    Really Diane?

    And where do you find that in The Catechism?

    Here’s a hint: YOU DON”T

    You’re not a Catholic Diane.

    You’re a Liberal who’s falsely hiding behind the word “Catholic”.

    Please stop abusing my Church.”

    Is it your right to say who is Catholic and who is not?

  • http://vita-nostra-in-ecclesia.blogspot.com/ Bender

    I believe the blog would be enriched by a different political perspective

    Then it would be just like 99 percent of the mainstream media. In fact, this blog IS the different political perspective. Why not celebrate its diversity, rather than be threatened by it?

    If you really want many topics that could be presented portraying Obama in a positive light, just go to any of the websites for the New York Times or Washington Post or other major paper, or tune into CNN or MSNBC or CBS or NBC or ABC, or go enroll in practically any major college. You’ll get all the pro-Obama cheerleading that you want.

  • dry valleys

    Aren’t a lot of Democrats fairly conservative, though, especially when it comes to acceptig neoliberal orthodoxy? We had an ostensibly left-wing government in Britain that was nothing of the kind, it left bankers totally untouched. I don’t know a great deal about the ins & outs of US politics, so I might sound glib, but I haven’t made it my business to be an expert on the workings of another country.

    You see the difference between us when you condemn Obama for not having supported the revolution. Firstly, Mousavi is in fact a fairly right-wing Islamist who is nicer than Ahmadi but is still essentially the same. (Imagine Palin competing against David Frum in an election- that is how I’d feel, I wouldn’t support either of them).

    The last thing he would ever have done is turn against the bomb or be pro-American. Secondly, you think Obama could somehow have helped matters by weighing in, but I don’t think it would have benefited ordinary Iranians. So I don’t take kindly to it when I am accused of not caring, bcause on fact I oppose standard GOP foreign policies out of a concern that they won’t help matters. It was Larison who was a big influence on meat the time, if you want to know why I think that without having comment threads clogged up by me talking.

    I actually know quite a few Iranian exiles, all of whom bitterly condemn theocracy, none of whom would accept the Romney vision of world events. That is all I am saying.

    Diane, it’s not so bad. Once you accept that your views are going to be the polar opposite of everyone else’s you sort of get used to it. :)

    [DV you remind me of someone in my family. He keeps expecting the liberals to actually "take on the evil banks." He is becoming cognizant of the fact, though, that it's all about money, all the time, and that human nature is broken - thus whoever gets in power eventually becomes entrenched, self-preserving and corrupt. Suddenly, there is no left and right, there is only corrupt and not-incorrupt....and the not-incorrupts are becoming increasingly hard to identify. I once wrote that "American presidents may peacefully surrender their power but bureaucrats never do." What happens when an entire party (and possibly a president) has a bureaucratic mindset? Well, nothing good, I don't think. I bet it's doubleplusungood! :-) -admin]

  • Jeff

    Have the “U.S.” bishops made some pronouncement stating that our immigration laws are illegal? Did I miss that? I wonder if the Mexican bishops have declared that Mexico’s immigration laws are also immoral?

    [No, the US (why the scare quotes) Bishops seek some kind of workable reform of our NIS and comprehensive immigration reform. As do I, along the lines of Chris Christie. -admin]

  • Last Sphere

    (Robert wrote – “Is it your right to say who is Catholic and who is not?”)

    It’s not a matter of “right”, it is a matter of fact.

    If you hold a belief contrary to the teachings in the Catechism (especially such a fundamental teaching to Catholicism such as abortion) then the fact of the matter is- no, you are not Catholic.

    If anything I would ask you: Is it your right to REDEFINE what it means to be Catholic? If so, then by what authority do you do so?

    Allow me to borrow a favorite rhetorical device from the Left:

    “Words mean things.”

    So please, stop trying to bastardize the meaning of Catholic. You simply don’t have the authority and by extension you certainly don’t have that right.

    God Bless and Peace be upon you.

  • Last Sphere

    (“I believe the blog would be enriched by a different political perspective”)

    Translation: “You NeoCons are closed-minded because you are brainwashed by the eeeevil FoxNews. You need to “open” your minds to the point where you will “tolerate” the intolerance of Liberalism. Oh and, you’re all racists”

    Of course, as a former Liberal, I am all too familiar with politically-correct Lib-speak.

  • Rhinestone Suderman

    Valeeys, I’m not really sure what you mean by saying Democrats are actually conservative (the ones I know here in the US really can’t be described that way), or what a “neoliberal” is. You do say yourself that you’re not an expert on American politics (though you comment about them, frequently.)

    We’ll just have to agree to disagree about Iran; I do think Obama’s support could have helped ordinary Iranians, who are now being raped, tortured and imprisoned by the mullocracy. Mousavi is no prize, but he’s probably better than Ahmadenijad, who is working towards getting nuclear weapons, and who has openly announced his intent to destroy Israel. An atomic war is the last thing anybody needs—least of all, the ordinary Iranian people!

    And this all ties in with my earlier point, that I really don’t see the Obama administration, or the Democrats, doing anything to fight “Theocracy”. If anything, they seem to be supporting them at the moment (at least in the Islamic world.)

  • Jeff

    I just put “U.S.” in quotes because I don’t really go along with the whole notion of national conferences of bishops. I think they detract from the teaching authority of individual bishops and cause a kind of creeping group-think which is unhealthy. I also never forgot the words of then Cardinal Ratzinger who said in the Ratzinger Report in 1985 that the national conferences of bishops have “no theological basis.”

    [Interesting. Group-think can, of course, be unhealthy. Then again, there is power in numbers. I guess it comes down to drawing the line, somewhere -admin]

  • Robert

    “You NeoCons are closed-minded because you are brainwashed by the eeeevil FoxNews. You need to “open” your minds to the point where you will “tolerate” the intolerance of Liberalism. Oh and, you’re all racists”

    Oh c’mon. I meant nothing of the sort. It’s just when you become comfortable in one point of view or one outlet you start spewing stuff exactly like that, which is has no validity and is further polarizing.

    “Then it would be just like 99 percent of the mainstream media. In fact, this blog IS the different political perspective. Why not celebrate its diversity, rather than be threatened by it?

    If you really want many topics that could be presented portraying Obama in a positive light, just go to any of the websites for the New York Times or Washington Post or other major paper, or tune into CNN or MSNBC or CBS or NBC or ABC, or go enroll in practically any major college. You’ll get all the pro-Obama cheerleading that you want.”

    I’m certainly not threatened by it, I stated that I read the blog because it is different and offers a Catholic perspective. I don’t want pro-Obama cheerleading, just as I don’t want Obama bashing. Perhaps I am just sympathetic. I defended Bush when he was getting thrown under the bus, and I am inclined to give Obama the slight benefit of the doubt on some things.

  • Jeff

    I agree that there is strength in the numbers. The problem with the national conferences, however, is that it displaces (and potentially competes with) the divinely ordained group, i.e., the pope and bishops in communion with him. The USCCB has no teaching authority as an institution; only the individual bishops do who are in union with the pope.

  • Last Sphere

    (Robert wrote – “Oh c’mon. I meant nothing of the sort. It’s just when you become comfortable in one point of view or one outlet you start spewing stuff exactly like that, which is has no validity and is further polarizing.”)

    And that statement just validated my assertion Robert.

    Look what you wrote:

    “comfortable in one point of view”

    That translates: Close-minded

    “which is has no validity and is further polarizing”

    That translates: You need to “tolerate” the intolerance of Liberalism.

    Why would you assume that “polarization” is necessarily a bad thing? On the contrary, polarization leads to clarity and truth.

    (Robert wrote – “Perhaps I am just sympathetic. I defended Bush when he was getting thrown under the bus, and I am inclined to give Obama the slight benefit of the doubt on some things.”)

    The fact that you “defended” either President is meaningless. What matters is the specific policies respective to each of their actions that you defended and the underlying political ideology that motivated your defense.

    I apologize if I seem harsh Robert. But we live in a time that is in desperate need of clarity of thought and of morality. Truth is not relevant.

  • Guido

    I’ not very familiar as to how this forum works, but I understand that the bold letters signed by admin are written by The Anchoress.

    In that case: I am puzzled by the fact that (on this thread at least) she felt it was more important to reprimand someone for telling Diane that she should not call herself Catholic (I quote: “…or declare who is or is not Catholic. Please stop that. –admin] “) than to chastise Diane for advocating the killing of innocent babies. Very curious indeed.

    I know The Anchoress is pro life, but it highlights how the effort to be “nice” (the supreme value of our confused time) affects almost everybody’s judgment.

    [See my response to Last Sphere. This is not about "being nice" which is a concept I abhor. It's about correcting a mistaken brother or sister in a way that may ultimately lead them back, rather than drive them further away. -admin]

  • Last Sphere

    [You know, I am really starting to hate it when people call each other RINOS and CINOS, or declare who is or is not Catholic. Please stop that. -admin]

    Unbelievable. (jaw drops)

    Political party identification and ideology is relative to the time in which it exists, HOWEVER Catholicism is not.

    So I can be a self-described “Catholic” and still support abortion to one degree or another?

    Really Anchoress?

    [Oh, put your jaw back up and save your breath for your porridge. I have myself been called a "Catholics In Name Only" by people who think they've got Catholicism all "down." Unfortunately, as much as we'd all like to be able to identify the "real" Catholics from the fake ones, the fact is someone baptised into the church is a Catholic--whether he or she wants to be--and it is not your job or mine to identify who "they" may be. It is entirely possible to be a Catholic with deeply mistaken ideas. If you think you've found one, then your job (and mine and everyone) is to--in Christ and in His charity--gently and lovingly try to demonstrate the error and lead them back into the fold. It is not to cry "heretic" and pronounce their status before God. All that does is cause additional scandal, and it's a far, far cry from "see how these Christians love one another." St. Paul wrote, "in wisdom made perfect, instruct and admonish one another." Do you think declaring "you are no Catholic" is wisdom made perfect, or is it your own emotional response kicking in? As a parent I know that corrections made in anger and without love do not take, very well. Read this:

    Catherine de Hueck Doherty was a Russian whose journey as an émigré in exile took her to Canada where she founded Madonna House, worked with the poor, and wrote prolifically. In Poustinia: Christian Spirituality of the East for Western Man, she speaks of the difficulty of community life and observes: "As you know only too well, the divisions, arguments, and power plays that take place at meetings witness to the fragmentation of humanity. By your presence in love, you have to witness to how much time is wasted, how much selfishness is going on, how much greed there is for power, attention, and recognition…If by prayer you have received food from God, you should be able...to give the oil of tenderness and the wine of compassion, first to each other, and then to everyone you meet. All this is done silently, in the secret places of your hearts.

    The perfection of the world begins when we first humbly correct ourselves, by the grace of God, and the pro-life cause wins no converts through stridency; the whole society is sick, and in need of the Divine Physician. We cannot lead anyone to him by force, or by screaming at them. Are you going to judge me, next, for NOT declaring that someone is or is not a Catholic? Fine. Be my guest. -admin]

  • Jeff

    I tend to agree with Anchoress on this. At the same time, I think it’s important to make the simple declaration that you can’t be Catholic and be in favor of legalized abortion. It has an impact and is designed to confront error in a forthright way. I also agree with her that you remain a Catholic theologically by virtue of your baptismal character which is never eradicated, but you’re no longer in communion with the Church when you veer off into acceptance or toleration of abortion. It’s a fine line. There has to be charity but there has to be truth also.

    [Truth delivered via hammers doesn't work. Mother Teresa and Maximilian Kolbe never used them -admin]

  • Guido

    Anchoress:

    I understand your point of view, but yet Jesus told Peter: get behind me satan, and he turned the tables of the money changers, and told those others: you brood of vipers

    If abortion can’t bring those kinds of reactions from some of us, I don’t know what would.

    [But I must ask, as almost 40 years of this sort of righteous anger ended abortion? No, we still abort 1 million babies a year. Abortion will end when people's hearts are changed, and that will not happen by putting people's backs up and making them dig in their heels to defend their positions, because it is human nature to defend one's position, whether it is right or wrong. I've marched on Washington on frigid Januaries; I've written countless pro-life pieces, prayed before abortuaries, etc. I'd venture to say I am pretty staunchly pro-life, and my experience has been that people are persuaded when they do not feel threatened or personally rejected. Telling someone "you're no Catholic," is a rejection. How do you loving persuade someone you are casting out? By the way, note that as the thread lengthens, my ability to boldface my comments is gone. Very long threads tend to affect my formatting--lost sphere's accusations aside--so when this one gets to about 150 comments, the thread may be closed. If not it will automatically close after a certain time, anyway.-admin]

  • Last Sphere

    Oh I see Anchoress.

    There is no such thing as heresy in our enlightened times, and there is no such thing as heretics. And if there were, no one has the right to make such judgments.

    I think I’ll leave my wife, move in with a gay lover, advocate the ordination of women priests, demand that the Church change it’s stance on abortion, and loudly proclaim that I am Catholic to everyone I meet. It really doesn’t matter does it? No of course it doesn’t.
    All the rest of you traditional Catholics should just remain silent in your humility lest you offend my right to defecate all over your beloved Church.

    Thanks for clearing that up in two thousand words or less Anchoress. Where would we be without your brilliant insight, undying humility, and wishy-washy moods to guide us?

    Isn’t it about time for you to declare this conversation to be boring and fruitless and announce that this thread is closing?

    And…in….3….2….1….

    [Oh, for crying out loud, DON'T put words in my mouth. And DON'T accuse me of closing threads because I won't be argued with. Next, I suppose you'll be accusing me of pride, and so forth, because apparently I have declared myself "brilliant?" Your hyperbole is bordering on obnoxious. Take care of yourself, brother. Meanwhile I'll go deal with the person in my email who declares I have no right to suggest (ala Pope John Paul II) that people pray the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary, because he was a baaaaaaad pope! There are an awful lot of really superior Catholics out there. I am honored and humbled to know they read little old me. -admin]

  • Jeff

    Can’t we all just get along, in the words of Rodney King?

    Truth with hammers sometimes works I think. But they should be used in moderation. John Paul II definitely used a hammer when he verbally berated that marxist Nicaraguan Jesuit in the ’80s. He was literally shouting at him to “regularize his situation.” Do we remember that?

    Sometimes we need to be hit upside the head I think and Jesus himself was not shy about getting angry.

    I suppose you take it on a case by case basis.

    [Well then when any of us are pope, we'll be allowed to use hammers around here on a case-by-case basis. Until then, perhaps we can--while we are here--perhaps muddle along in all of our imperfections and try not to annihilate each other because we're all such profoundly great Catholics. See how these Christians shove one another! ;-) admin]

  • Last Sphere

    Oh no Anchoress. Never again would I ever accuse you of an over abundance of pride. You’re obviously far beyond that. God apparently has revealed this to you. And you simply have some divine insights that deems heretics to be just as “catholic” as all those traditional devout Catholics who should remain humble and silent.

    Hey, once anyone’s baptized a “catholic” they can pretty much believe anything they want!

    Oh and by your definition….Hitler was a real “catholic” too wasn’t he?

    Why yes. Yes he was.

  • Last Sphere

    [Well then when any of us are pope, we'll be allowed to use hammers around here on a case-by-case basis. Until then, perhaps we can--while we are here--perhaps muddle along in all of our imperfections and try not to annihilate each other because we're all such profoundly great Catholics. See how these Christians shove one another! ;-) admin]

    Do you have any mirrors in your house Anchoress?

    [Yup, just like yours. How much more rude do you intend to be, simply because I've dared to disagree with you, again? -admin]

  • Last Sphere

    [Truth delivered via hammers doesn't work. Mother Teresa and Maximilian Kolbe never used them -admin]

    You might want to ring up Fr Corapi on that one Anchoress. Perhaps you can set him right.

    [I like some of what Corapi says, but not everything. And I don't have to like everything he says. And you don't have to like everything I write and I don't have to like everything that you write. Sucks, doesn't it? :-) The world would be so much easier, if everyone would just think like you. Or think like me. We'll just have to deal, LS. -admin]

  • Last Sphere

    [Yup, just like yours. How much more rude do you intend to be, simply because I've dared to disagree with you, again? -admin]

    Rude? What’s “rude” Anchoress?

    Is abortion “rude”?

    Is chastising me for calling someone out on their heresy “rude”?

    Is spinning the meaning of “catholic” into utter meaninglessness “rude”?

    Was I “rude” to offend you by questioning your humility? (quite a paradox no?)

    Help me out here.

    [No. You know why you're rude. When you attempt to put words in my mouth, distort my meaning and descend into adolescent snark, then you are being rude. And you're doing that hijacking-the-thread-and-demanding-attention thing you do from-time-to-time. But I do have deadlines, and don't have all day to defend myself against your usual (and apparently imminent) accusations of pride, ego, etc, etc, etc...I took them, at first, in good spirit, as a genuine attempt to keep me honest. But this a habitual descent for you, anytime I dare to disagree, so I no long think that's what you're about. Read your responses since I dared to ask you not to declare other people "Catholic-or-not" on this site. Hammer, hammer, hammer, with personal overtones. So, now I am resistant; I am not listening. From this point on, I am not even responding. You might say you have made my point for me. -admin]

  • Last Sphere

    [I like some of what Corapi says, but not everything. And I don't have to like everything he says. And you don't have to like everything I write and I don't have to like everything that you write. Sucks, doesn't it? :-) The world would be so much easier, if everyone would just think like you. Or think like me. We'll just have to deal, LS. -admin]

    Ah yes. Moral relativism rears it’s ugly head.

    Hey, there is no right. There is no wrong.

    A person can remain “catholic” and still support the murder of the most innocent and defenseless of human beings.

    I know this is true because of the divine wisdom of the Anchoress!

    And she must be right because she’s humble and she loves to straddle the fence. She loves to remain luke-warm. She does not like to cause divisiveness based on sin because we are all sinners and as such we are incapable of pointing out one another’s sins…..or something.

    After all- Christ never came to divide….did He?

  • Robert

    “I apologize if I seem harsh Robert. But we live in a time that is in desperate need of clarity of thought and of morality. Truth is not relevant.”

    The truth is that vitriol is wrong no matter what philosophy is hiding behind it, and whatever truth that philosophy holds. All it does is take credibility away from yourself, when you could be calmly arguing for your point of view and gaining listeners from the other side of the spectrum, which is what I assume you want. Preaching angrily to the choir doesn’t accomplish much.

  • Doc

    Lively discussion. I’d like to dedicate this to Diane, Zach, and Buchta. For those who still wonder how Obama got elected, this Jim Treacher parody from the Fall of 2008 hits too close to home in capturing the way the media covered the election:

    Sarah Palin Supersizes Fries
    By David Axelrod, Associated Press

    Media Bubble, Oct. 23 — Republican Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin has come under fire in recent days after it was revealed that earlier this year, a drive-through meal purchased by the Alaskan Governor contained more than the usual number of french fries.

    The discovery was made during a routine Associated Press search of drive-through security camera footage obtained from the McDonald’s restaurant at 130 Front St. in Juneau, less than a mile from the governor’s mansion. On a tape from Feb. 15 of this year, a woman closely resembling Palin can be seen speaking intently for several seconds, pausing, and then nodding her head and smiling. According to lip readers hired by the AP, the woman may very well have been saying, “Oh, you betcha.” And in subsequent interviews, restaurant staff have identified the woman as the governor and confirmed that on the night in question, Palin very likely would have been asked about her desired number of fries.

    After days of controversy and several evasions (“I sure don’t remember specific details about a fast food run I made last winter. Aren’t you being a little silly?”), Palin yesterday acknowledged responsibility for her part in the culinary misappropriation widely known as Deliciousgate.

    “Okay, I remember now. Trig was kicking away something fierce, and I really had a craving for a double cheeseburger,” the former beauty queen and killer of defenseless animals admitted. “Usually I try to eat pretty healthy, but every once in a while you gotta treat yourself. And I figured the little guy wouldn’t mind. Todd said he wasn’t really hungry, but he could eat some fries maybe. So when the gal asked if I wanted to supersize it, I figured we could just split the fries. Those things are so tasty.”

    During an appearance in Indianapolis today, President Obama — delivering his speech in front of his usual backdrop, an enormous solid-gold statue of himself — scoffed at the greasy slob’s miserable excuse for her career-ending irresponsibility.

    “Sarah Palin says she’s just an ordinary working-class American. [laughter] Now it turns out she eats strips of potato that have been fried and salted. And if somebody offers her more of them for a slightly higher price… that’s just fine with her. [boos] Go along, get along, eh, Governor? Are you going to throw away the American people’s money too? We cannot afford to have this woman in the White House. Er, I mean a cancer-ravaged heartbeat away from the White House.”

    Pres. Obama then emitted a discreet puff of arugula-scented flatulence, curing a nearby blind child.

  • Last Sphere

    [Hammer, hammer, hammer, with personal overtones. So, now I am resistant; I am not listening. From this point on, I am not even responding. You might say you have made my point for me. -admin]

    Yes of course Anchoress.

    How dare I bring out a hammer to challenge YOUR hammer.

    Please don’t ever claim any form of humility ever again Anchoress. The fact that my accusations of pride towards you tweeked you as deeply as they did speaks volumes. All writers suffer first and foremost from an over abundance of pride. That is why they write. They are in love with the sound of their own voice. And you are no exception.

    The difference however, between you and I, is that I am aware of this.


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