YES CHARLOTTE DIOCESE… WE HAVE A LATIN MASS

Friday, 05 October, in Davis Chapel at Wake Forest University.

it’s past 5 o’clock and I am about to walk out the door, but I will post further details and some email correspondances I received.

… more to come.

Thanks, Sid for the tip. If you can’t wait till tomorrow for the rest of the info, email Sid Cudniff. He’s friendly enough.

About Katrina Fernandez

Mackerel Snapping Papist

  • Connie

    You know, I’d love to get excited about this but it just doesn’t add up…Bishop Jugis gave “permission” for this Mass to be said at Wake Forest and is asking for a “report” on how many attend this Mass…No permission is needed from any bishop to say this Mass per the Motu Proprio and he is certainly not entitled to a report. Per your own blog, via Mr. Hains, the Bishop indicated by not making a statement on the Motu Proprio that “The Summorum document does not call for any action from the Bishop…” Exactly….no action from him is required…no permission to say the Latin Mass and no report card either….Therefore I can’t support this Mass at Wake Forest. I cannot give the good Bishop power that does not belong to him. That is not what the Holy Father intended. His intention was to free the Mass for priests to say anytime, anywhere, which he did. The motu proprio is not another “indult” and we cannot allow our bishops to treat it as such by catering to their power struggles.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/06117353945124506952 The Crescat

    Connie, you make an excellent point. As I stated, I was walking out the door when I posted this. I stil have many emails and details to sort through.

  • Sid Cundiff

    Connie:1. A PASTOR does not need a bishop’s permission; Fr. Weber (who will be offering this Mass in the Extraordinary Form [MEF]) is NOT a pastor, this mass is not taking place in a parish, and thus Fr. Weber and this Mass need the Bishop’s permission. 2. Bishop Jugis has every right to know just how popular the Mass in the Extraordinary Form (MEF) is. Let’s assume his full bona fides and his best intentions: If quite popular, MEF may be offered more often at more times in more places. Another concern of Bishop Jugis, I imagine, is that clergy are too few in numbers, and have many duties; the wishes of TINY groups are hard to satisfy with a skeleton crew. So let’s not be TINY! BE THERE FRIDAY AND ADD TO THE NUMBERS! The Bishop is also a fine canon lawyer, and he knows that the normal place for the Mass is in established parishes and religious houses. 3. If YOU and I do not follow Fr Zuhlsdorf’s rules (below), and we make ourselves threatening and obnoxious to the local pastor or the bishop, then YOU and I will be the parties who would have KILLED FOR YEARS any chance for the MEF, and we will be held accountable. We’re just getting started. Don’t withold your support! The transition to a parish will take time. Let’s be glad that we can have the MEF at all.– Sid CundiffP.S.: Fr. Zuhlsdorf’s rules:1) Rejoice because our liturgical life has been enriched, not because “we win”. Everyone wins when the Church’s life is enriched. This is not a “zero sum game”.2) Do not strut. Let us be gracious to those who have in the past not been gracious in regard to our “legitimate aspirations”.3) Show genuine Christian joy. If you want to attract people to what gives you so much consolation and happiness, be inviting and be joyful. Avoid the sourness some of the more traditional stamp have sadly worn for so long.4) Be engaged in the whole life of your parishes, especially in works of mercy organized by the same. If you want the whole Church to benefit from the use of the older liturgy, then you who are shaped by the older form of Mass should be of benefit to the whole Church in concrete terms.5) If the document doesn’t say everything we might hope for, don’t bitch about it like a whiner. Speak less of our rights and what we deserve, or what it ought to have been, as if we were our own little popes, and more about our gratitude, gratitude, gratitude for what God gives us.[Father Z adds]: I want to make something perfectly clear. If you are in that area and intend to go to [a] meeting, do NOT be belligerent or unkind to that priest [or meeting's organizers] or generally make an ass of yourself.You can do more harm than good if you go to this meeting and are nasty.If you go, be courteous and level headed.Do NOT get in anyone’s face.Do not harden hearts by aggression.If you think you cannot contain yourself, don’t go.

  • Connie

    sid,I appreciate your reply. I agree with much of what you said, but this I disagree with: “The transition to a parish will take time. Let’s be glad that we can have the MEF at all.”It does take time…sure it does…It takes time for the pastor to learn the 62 Missal and it takes time for him to say it. You obviously read Fr.Z’s blog, as do I. Just look how many parishes took the bull by the horns so to speak and just started saying the Mass. They didn’t build up or graduate to anything. But therein lies the problem, many pastors in the Charlotte diocese are not interested in saying the Tridentine Mass. You yourself said you received very few (2-4) replies back from all the priest in the diocese you requested it from. I’m happy the Mass is being said, however, we can’t just jump at every bone being thrown to us. Imagine this, you will be at the Tridentine Mass this Friday while only a few miles away in Downtown Winston at the Fatima Chapel the “spirit of Assisi” will be happening with Chi-Kung Meditation, so says our parish bulletin. It is not just about bringing back the “old Mass” Sid. It’s not about us having our own little private Latin Masses. It is about bringing back the Catholic Faith. It’s not about us. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors Sid, I truly mean that. God bless you for the work you have done.

  • steve

    Interesting that the first TLM will not be in a Catholic Church but in a multi-purpose chapel on a college campus founded by Baptists. Too bad every Catholic Church in the diocese was booked that day.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/04809088855172879580 Joseph Palmer

    Steve,Perhaps if you all show your support, it will end up in the Cathedral of St. Patrick in Charlotte! Remember, you are eating cold gruel right now. Do you want steak (no matter how it’s cooked) and potatoes or not?Connie,Relax. Remember the cold gruel you feed on every Sunday. Here is your opportunity for real food, line up for it. Who cares about the technicalities right now. Up in Connecticut we have bishops approving Plan B to be used in hospitals. What’s worse? This is what you all have been waiting for. Show your support.

  • Connie

    Steve, Re-read my post. You have obviously missed my entire point. It is NOT about JUST THE MASS! It is about the ENTIRE FAITH! If Connecticut had the ENTIRE FAITH you wouldn’t have Plan B. If Charlotte had the ENTIRE FAITH we wouldn’t have “The Spirit of Assisi” and New Age meditation held in a Catholic chapel!

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/02598404623048927550 Tom S.

    God Bless You, Sid. Thanks.Connie, I just don’t get your response. Even if, canonically you were correct, it is still the wrong attitude to have. If there is one thing – one thing – that will torpedo the (not yet inevitable) progress and growth of the TLM, it is nit-picking every move to death. EVERY step in the right direction IS a step in the right direction. Just because this step doesn’t get you as close to your goal as you like doesn’t mean that it’s to be spurned.Imagine this: You find yourself on a cold night, stuck with a broken-down car on the side of a lonely road somewhere between Raleigh and Wilmington – i.e. the middle of nowhere ± 150 miles from home. You desperately need to get home to Winston-Salem. After a long time, a car pulls up and offers you a ride as far as Greensboro – i.e. hot coffee, civilization and only 30 miles from home. Do you A) graciously take the ride kindly offered, or B) Say no way and complain to the kind soul offering that ride that it doesn’t get you where you want to be?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/02598404623048927550 Tom S.

    Advice from a Sage (actually more of a Parsley or an Oregano, but I digress):Be careful who you Piss Off.

  • Connie

    and tom S to you some advice…be careful who you snuggle up to…To answer your question I would NOT take the ride! I’m a woman…I wouldn’t get in the car with a stranger luring gifts!! I’d walk to a pay phone and call my brother or some other close friend….I applaud Sid’s efforts too…but guys…I can’t say it enough: ITS NOT ABOUT THE LATIN MASS. IT IS ABOUT THE CATHOLIC FAITH IN ITS ENTIRETY! I’ve debated this enough…i’m out.

  • steve

    Connie,My comment had nothing to with you or your comment nor was it directed to you or in reference to what you wrote. Please step off your pedestal.

  • Sid Cundiff

    Connie has said pastors in the Charlotte diocese are not interested in saying the Tridentine Mass.’tain’t so ! and ‘taint so about the priests in general, regardless of my earlier report. And why should we necessarily lose any sleep were all of them disinterested? We’ve got Holy Father, and we’ve got Bishop Jugis. Those two would be all that we would need. wish you the best of luck in your endeavors Sid, I truly mean that. God bless you for the work you have done. Thank you. Now help us and me out rather than throwing up a road block, support this Mass, be there, invite others, be joyful, lower your voice, and don’t broadcast your reservations. We all have gripes. There is a place and occasion to air them. This ain’t that time or place. Now is the time to put them aside and be joyful and happy. Steve said… Interesting that the first TLM will not be in a Catholic Church but in a multi-purpose chapel on a college campus founded by Baptists. Too bad every Catholic Church in the diocese was booked that day.. First of all, Fr Weber is a member, a highly respected member, of the Wake faculty. The Davis chapel is downstairs from his office. It’s what he could get at short notice. St. Leo’s has Exposition and Benediction during the day, and Mass. Second, go to Davis Chapel this Friday night and see for yourself. Whatever the uses it’s put to, it has the appearance of a holy place. Third, sarcasm (to tear the flesh in Greek) never has a place in religious discussions.You people keep this up, and we MEFers will be right back were we started. Why is it that the best friends of something end up its de facto worst enemies? And why is it that some folk are only happy when they’re angry, and why is it, to quote Henry Adams, that their principle pleasure in life is hate, of themselves if no more convenient victim can be found? (I don’t necessarily mean any of y’all). And what good is this anger? No good at all! Put it aside, work with everyone, support your parish, and support the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary. Read father Z’s Rule #3, and obey it. If you can’t obey it, please get out of the way of those of us who can and will. Sorry to speak so strongly. I want this Mass. And I want a bunch of souls there. And from my survey of the lay of the Diocesan land, the only people that can stop it dead in its tracks and nipped in the bud are we very MEFers ourselves!Let’s support each other on this blog, and elsewhere, using fraternal (and sororal) correction, when needed, and otherwise offer support and encouragement. Why groan anyway? Things are, to coin a phrase, going our way!

  • Sid Cundiff

    By “’tain’t so about priests in general” I mean throughout the USA. I’m assuming what’s true for the whole (the USA) might well be true for the part (Charlotte).

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/04809088855172879580 Joseph Palmer

    I hate to sound repetitive…Gruel? Steak? You choose.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/02598404623048927550 Tom S.

    Wow… I’ve never snuggled up to a Cannonball before!!!!

  • Robin

    Sid, I just saw this tonight. I live in W-S and will be there with bells (and incense?) on!God bless you for getting this going with Fr. Weber.

  • Anonymous

    Sid,I live 77 miles away and I would not miss this chance to worship God in this most sacred way possible.This is what it is really about.At San Giovanni Rotundo St. Pio’s monastary, people would get up at 2am to walk for hours to assist at the Saints Mass.Driving 77 miles is nothing in comparison.Connie, if you need a ride I will be more than…. oops I forgot you would refuse help from someone who is trying to help tou get to heaven.Please, Connie, come anyhow.We traditionalists must stick together on everything that is permitted by Holy Mother Church.God bless you and God bless the Church,for where else would we turn?Dan

  • Anonymous

    Dan,You have completely missed the point…This is NOT the way to bring in the Latin Mass to the Charlotte diocese…It belongs in a Catholic Church not as part of an ecumenical soup! Connie

  • Anonymous

    Connie,It will soon be in two Catholic churches in Greensboro NC.Our Lady of Grace, and St Benedicts.Assisting at the mass at Wake Forest is in no way going to sabatoge the Mass being offered in a Catholic Church.My grandfather was killed on Iwo Jima when a mortar blast ripped to shreds the makeshift altar, priest and faithful right before the Consecration.This was a mass that was being offered on a bloodsoaked volcanic beachhead in the middle of a Satanic war with Japanese pagans raining death from above.Should my grandfather have bowed out of this chance to offer worship and sacrifice to his Creator because the mass was not in a Catholic Church?Do not insult the Church and the Mystical Body of Christ in this way.I am praying that you assist.God bless you and yours.

  • Connie

    Anonymous,That is not my point. Having a Mass outside is fine. I’ve been to many. My objection is that the altar which the Latin Mass will be said on is shared by Lutherans and Baptist, and whatever other religion. THAT is my objection. That shouldn’t happen.

  • Connie

    and I meant to say, when the Latin Mass comes to Greensboro, I’ll be there. I will support the Masses and the parishes that offer it. That’s GREAT! Because that has the potential to change the parish for the better. More reverence, more devotion, more vocations, etc. etc.

  • Anonymous

    So Connie,By your logic, then,the First Mass offered by out Lord was profane because He offered it in a room that,up to that time had been used by people who did not worship Christ as the Messias.Also many outdoor mass’s,such as the one previously mentioned in WWII, took place on pagan grounds, unconsecrated to the Triune Godhead.If Father Weber offered the Tridentine Mass on a makeshift altar two feet to the right or left of the one in the chapel would you be satisfied?I am sure that Father will take the proper steps to ensure that the altar is sanctified and correctly prepared to offer Holy Mass.Do not let Satan rend asunder this great gift and treasure that the Church has at Her Fingertips.I will pay your gas bill for you if you assist. I am serious.I will fill the tank of your car up.God bless you.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/08674226359189392827 Scelata

    It comes down to this: we have to decide, which has more wonderworking efficacy, greater ability to effect change more evnagelical potency?The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the Mass of the Ages, the Extraordinary Form offered beautifully and reverently?Or our stubborn boycott until we get exactly what we want?I know which way I would answer…(Save the Liturgy, Save the World)

  • Connie

    Anonymous,I am not deprived of the Latin Mass. I can attend it on any given Sunday if I choose to drive to either Charlotte, Raleigh, or Goldsboro, and have on many occasions. However, I am looking for a change to happen in the Catholic Church, as I believe the Holy Father is, by having the Latin Mass offered in our parishes. I don’t understand why this is so hard for so many to understand. It is not just about the Mass. The Catholic Faith is in jeopardy as a whole! As I said, I will support the Masses at Our Lady of Grace in Greensboro or where ever because those priests are taking the initiative to say it and hopefully change their parishes for the better by offering REAL Catholicism. You wouldn’t need to pay my gas. I live only about 3 miles from Wake Forest University. Have the Mass at St. Leo’s and I’ll be there.

  • Anonymous

    Connie,Pretend it is St Leo’s.But seriously, I will personally bribe you with 50 US dollars if you come to the mass at Wake.I will be wearing a blue seersucker suit, {even if it is after Labor day] and have a shaved head and beard.God bless.

  • Sid Cundiff

    Folks, see my remarks on the entry for 04 x 07. I urge writebacks on this entry. Fraternal Correction! And don’t let the MEF be killed by the only people that can kill it now: other MEFers.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/06117353945124506952 The Crescat

    Hey, I’ll be driving 100 miles. Where’s my $50 damnit!

  • Anonymous

    Carolina Cannonball,If Connie does not show up, I shall give you the 50.00After all you have a longer drive than she does.God bless you.Dan Hunter

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/04809088855172879580 Joseph Palmer

    Connie,Would it be OK to have a Novus Ordo Mass at Wake Forest?

  • Connie

    Joseph,No, its not okay. Again, the Catholic Faith is not “one of many to choose from” and that is the impression left when Mass is said along side other religious services, i.e. and ecumenical buffet…Fr. Weber already says the Novus Ordo Mass daily at Wake Forest in Latin I believe, at least he did last year. So why he needed “approval” for the 1962 is still a question in my mind. If he has faculties to say the Novus Ordo at Wake he has faculties to say the 1962 missal.

  • Sid Cundiff

    However humble that it may be, still the Mass today in Davis Chapel, as our Baptist friends (and kind hosts) say, “will be a blessing to ya.” And I think that we’re making history, because this may well be the first Mass in the Extraordinary Form (MEF) in this diocese since the Indult. Maybe the first offered in a long time. Maybe the first offered in the USA in a Baptist college chapel! Y’all come and make history!

  • Sid Cundiff

    05 x a.D. 2007 FR 09:59Fr Weber has written the following below and has asked me to pass it on. See all’y’all tonight:Sid Cundiff”My situation here at WFU is a bit out of the ordinary. So people may not understand how things work.”By way of information . . . I have been offering Holy Mass each Friday for our WFU Catholic community for the past 8 years, for any who wish to come. We have a wonderful Franciscan chaplain here — much loved. Friday is his day off. I have been offering the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin on Fridays as my schedule allows. In the first place, I celebrate Mass on Fridays for the WFU community. This is the case with tomorrow’s First Friday Mass.”The only change this First Friday is that we will use the Extraordinary Form, with the knowledge and permission of the Bishop, and the time will be 7:00 p.m. in the evening, not 12 noon, as in the past, to allow any guests who may wish to come to attend with greater convenience. WFU is known for its hospitality. There have often been guests at our Friday Masses. Guests can count on a warm welcome at WFU.”It is true that the chapel is used by many groups. Catholics use it almost every day for Mass, and have, as far as I know, since the opening of the campus. This is the case on all university campuses that are not Catholic, as far as I know. There are not specific chapels for Catholics or Baptists or Lutherans. It is a wonderful thing that our Catholics have Mass available on such a regular basis, and in a convenient way. Times for confession are also available almost every day through the office of the Catholic chaplain. I have also received requests for Confession, and have been very happy to assist whenever possible. The campus ministry provided by the Franciscan Friars here at WFU is well organized and provides many fine opportunities for the entire WFU family, including Holy Mass on Sundays and most weekdays, retreats, community service, a weekly communal meal, confessions, and much more. I have been deeply impressed by the strong Catholic presence here at WFU. The President of the University has been supportive of our Catholic ministry, and has been particularly attentive to my presence and work here.”My priestly duties pertain only to WFU, under the direction of the Chaplain appointed by the Bishop of Charlotte. Should I receive an invitation from any Bishop or pastor to perform any sacred function, I am free to accept that invitation as my academic responsibilities permit.”I have no right whatsoever to function in any parish or situation unless I am invited to do so, and then only under the direction of competent authority.”The Diocese of Charlotte has gone out of its way to welcome me and support my work at Wake Forest. I am grateful for the continuing interest shown in my work by the Bishop, the Vicar General, pastors, and so many in the diocese.”My appointment as a founding member of the Wake Forest University Divinity School was made with full knowledge and permission of competent Ecclesiastical authority. In fact, my appointment was even announced on Vatican Radio! My first year here at WFU we were privileged to have Francis Cardinal Arinze give the commencement address for the entire University. At the time of that visit, His Eminence told me “the Holy Father knows of your good work and sends you his blessing.””My ecumenical presence at WFU is carried out according to the teachings of the Church as expressed in the official documents and statements of the Magisterium. The President of the University and the Dean of the Divinity School have given me complete support in this regard. I am grateful to continue in this work as long as I am appointed to do so by my monastic superior. “

  • Anonymous

    Connie,It is astounding to read your authoritative comments on this great event at Wake Forest. How shamed Fr. Weber must be to realize that his efforts to bring this glorious Mass to the people is missing the point of the Catholic faith. No one realized that you could read the intentions of Bishop Jugis and of the priests of the Diocese of Charlotte from the desk of your computer. We all should just cancel our attendance tonight because we just don’t get it. Do you always react with such opinated wrath at others joy?

  • Connie

    Anonymous,Yes! That is exactly what you should do… not go because apparently you do not “get it.” There are men who died for this Mass, this Mass that you wouldn’t have today had it not been for ONE man…I don’t claim to know a lot but I know one thing he sure as HELL did not sacrifice his life and reputation to see this Mass said at an ecumenical chapel, mixed and mingled into this great ecumenical soup/smorgasboard/cafeteria we find ourselves in today. THIS IS THE HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS…CALVARY…JESUS CHRIST! We, as Catholics, either believe the above statement or we don’t. We either believe the Catholic Church is the ONE true church of Jesus Christ or we don’t…it’s that simple. You should read up on relativism by our Holy Father…I’ll give you a hint…he’s not real keen on it.

  • Anonymous

    Connie,Your knowledge is very limited, but your opinion is huge. I suppose you would have reeled in horror that the FSSP had to say Mass in a funeral palor in Atlanta before purchasing their chapel in Mableton, Ga. You don’t seem to understand that Fr. Weber cannot burst into any Catholic Church and say the Latin Mass. He saw an interest and responded, but you insist the Mass is unworthy because eumenical events take place there also? You need to broaden your narrow opinion by reading the likes of David Jones who converted to Catholicism after viewing the Mass through a slit of a barn door. It is obvious that God willed Fr. Weber to say Mass at this location, at this time, at this place. You know the outcome better than God?

  • Connie

    Anonymous, (please find the courage to use your name or an alias)I would not be “horrified” at the FSSP for using a purchased chapel at a funeral palor UNLESS they rented it out to the Baptist or Pentecostals, etc. etc…..This has nothing to do with Fr. Weber. I am sure he is a very good man and priest…It’s the Catholic Faith. I was asked to attend his Latin Novus Ordo masses last year by a friend and I said no when I found out it was in an ecumenical chapel…The Catholic Faith is not just another option…it is the ONLY option…or do you deny that doctrine?

  • Anonymous

    Your misread the FSSP’s dilemma; they had no option but to say Mass in a funeral palor because no Catholic pastors would allow them to say Mass in their Catholic churchs. The palor was, indeed, allowing other faiths to have services.I am beginning to wonder if you are Catholic; you are like an old dog with a bone regarding the place of the Mass. Perhaps you don’t know that Fatima has begun to allow all faiths to hold services in the chapel. That does not mean that the Catholic Faith is equal to or an option for other faiths. There is nothing going on at Wake Forest that even suggests the Catholic Faith is equal to or an option to the other faiths. Fr. Weber is bringing the salvific mission of the Church to Wake Forest and I am proud that her superiority will finally reign.

  • connie

    Anonymous,My cowardly no name friend,It is a well known fact that the FSSP is willing to compromise on just about anything..that is how they began…on compromise… Please do not bring up the shamefulness going on at Fatima….And please tell me you don’t support that…having Hindu services there is an abomination and you know it! You bringing up Fatima says everything I need to know about your “faith” as a “catholic.”Good luck friend.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/00789908867160711317 NCTradCatholic

    Well said, Connie.

  • Anonymous

    Has anyone told you that you have a enormous nasty streak? Making friends must be very difficult for you.I doubt that St. Leo’s is teaching you such rubbish; you are ruled by your emotions; you are your own authority. Did you also freak out with the Holy Father’s comments to Muslims for Ramadom? Fr.Weber has brought the greatest gift to Wake Forest, but it didn’t meet your requirements and so you diss it. It might be more helpful to you to quit blogging and actually read something on Catholicism…like the virtues. Humility, after the first shock, is a marvelous virtue!

  • Sid Cundiff

    ALL’Y’ALL. For my first report on last night’s Mass, see my writeback above under “A note from Fr. Samuel Weber, OSB”

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/00789908867160711317 NCTradCatholic

    Dear “anonymous”,If you consider yourself a Catholic gentleman, I am sure you can find a more chivalrous way to express your disagreement with a lady than the kind of below-the-belt ad hominem attacks you used above. Connie is using her real name. You don’t even have the courtesy to use a consistent pseudonym, even though both she and the blog owner have requested that you do so. (See Katrina’s request on the other thread). Perhaps you are not really cowardly, just lazy? In any case, take her rebuke like a man.Do you really think the saints and great popes of the past would share your approval of pagan rituals at the Fatima shrine? How about Mother Angelica? Would you call her “nasty” as well? (Many have, are you one of them?)

  • Anonymous

    Connie and NCTrad,This is cyberspace; your clinging to a personal name is silly; my name is anonymous.Guess what’s going on at a Connie Approved Latin Mass in Charlotte today? Seems the folks at St. Anthony’s are marching around the Bishop’s residence (about now, I believe), going back to the chapel for Mass, then (I couldn’t believe it) A RABBIT SLAUGHTER! They are killing 12 rabbits and have no plans to eat them. Their just killing them! A friend (also anonymous) has been going out there and says that Father is goulish about the killing. Major gross out in my anonymous book. My pal said they’d be back about 4p, so call ‘em if you don’t believe me 704.827.8676; now I know where Connie got her edge. By their fruits you will know them.

  • Anonymous

    Sorry NCTrad got carried away with the rabbit killing. Who said I approved of the Fatima scandal? You and Miss Connie (see, showing respect like a gentleman)got so hot headed that you assumed I approved; the Vatican, comrades, approves. The same Holy Father that Miss Connie is working with to bring the LM to parishes approves of the interfaith services at Fatima. Miss Connie was scandalized (or just supremely miffed) that Fr. Weber said Mass in the only space available. I missed the part where he’d decided to have the Mass on a regular basis in the interfaith chapel. Perhaps you two to help Fr. Weber with his error by starting a campaign fund to build a Catholic chapel at WF! Turn your disdain and disgust into something sorely needed! What Charity that would be! And then perhaps we could meet face to face and I’d give you my name!

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/00789908867160711317 NCTradCatholic

    They’re not “marching around the Bishop’s residence”, sport, they’re having a Rosary procession through downtown Charlotte (something the Church used to do more frequently), and praying a decade or so in front of the Bishop’s home, for the spiritual welfare of the bishop himself and the diocese. No protests, no picket signs, no self immolations, just prayer. Got a problem with that?? I’m sure the Bishop doesn’t mind their prayers for him. I’ve participated in it a few times, so I know what I’m talking about, but you apparently don’t.The rabbits belong to one of the families at St. Anthony’s. Last I checked, North Carolina is not suffering from an underpopulation of bunny rabbits. You should see my neighborhood! If half of the financial doom and gloom on secular websites is true, there may well come a time when Catholics, if not others, need to seek alternative sources of food. Father actually has a soft spot for animals, but he does believe that men and boys should know how to provide food for their families, even in times of severe hardship. Catholics (and Jews) have been allowed to eat meat since the time of Noah. If they’re not eating the rabbits at St. Anthony’s, it’s because the people there are understandably squeamish about it. So what?If your anonymous friend is so troubled by Father’s “ghoulish” ways, why is he going to St. Anthony’s in the first place? Why doesn’t he just assist at one of the many Novus Ordo Masses there, instead of passing his gripes on to you, for you to repeat in an ill-informed manner? How manly.

  • Connie

    “Seems the folks at St. Anthony’s are marching around the Bishop’s residence (about now, I believe), going back to the chapel for Mass, then (I couldn’t believe it) A RABBIT SLAUGHTER! They are killing 12 rabbits and have no plans to eat them. Their just killing them! A friend (also anonymous) has been going out there and says that Father is goulish about the killing. Major gross out in my anonymous book. My pal said they’d be back about 4p, so call ‘em if you don’t believe me 704.827.8676;”NC Trad,It sure sounds like we have a “mole” at St. Anthony’s….hmmm….whoever could it be???

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/00789908867160711317 NCTradCatholic

    Don’t know, I only go to the other 2 chapels. Look for someone in a bunny suit!

  • Anonymous

    NCTrad,My friend (a woman, beg pardon) is (was?) going to St. Anthony’s for the Latin Mass; the rabbit slaughter ordeal frightened her; got a problem with that,pal? A woman is frightened because a priest spends weeks talking up butchering rabbits. You and your pal Connie (the Hulk) probably rip ‘em about with your bare hands. I see no reason to kill a bunch of rabbits and not use them for food; perhaps you need to check your catechism…if you have one. Connie, you have a paranoid streak also?

  • connie

    Anonymous,That was a joke, the “mole” comment….I’m known for that…my HUMOR! ask anybody…LOL!I was at the Rosary procession today in Charlotte…I didn’t hear anything about the bunny burgers! Dern! I shoulda stuck around… It’s no big deal Anonymous…afterall rabbbits “taste like chicken!”….LOL!

  • Anonymous

    Connie,They were afraid you might start tearing them apart with your teeth at the Bishop’s residence.

  • Connie

    Now THAT was funny Anonymous!! LOL! That was a good one! LOL!

  • Anonymous

    Connie,And a hebephrenic also…

  • Connie

    Your close…(I had to look that word up actually..I didn’t know what it meant)….So do you attend Mass in Charlotte Anon? Have you ever been to St. Anthony’s? I don’t go as much as I use to…scheduling conflicts, not to mention gas prices….I go to Raleigh and Goldsboro when I can though since the Mass is not until 5:30 p.m.

  • Anonymous

    Connie,I attend the LM in Georgia now; I used to live in Char and am interested in what’s going on there; it is a diocese that has suffered greatly…esp from the last bishop (Curlin). Sincerely, I am disappointed with St. Anthony’s…manly ways are good, but this went overboard according to my friend who is no whimpish woman. She liked the priest, but he frightened her. I don’t like my female friends to be frightened; esp by a priest. I don’t think his Superior would be amused by the killings; it doesn’t fit with the Society; at least what their website seems to support. I do have a problem with blood shed on Catholic grounds just for the shedding. I occasional go to Char to see friends; I’m afraid I’d deck Father if I met him (again). He should be ashamed of himself.

  • Connie

    The rabbit thing may have been a misunderstanding or rumor…I certainly did not hear anything about that today before the procession started. the Society’s superior hunts deer, from my understanding, so I’m not too sure he would be upset about rabbits gettin’ the axe…then again they may just break their necks like chickens. That’s how my daddy use to kill chickens….snap their neck…no blood at all.

  • Anonymous

    Connie,You missed my point; his Superior hunts the deer and eats it; your dad killed the chicken and ate it, I presume. Father was specific, so I’m told…they were just killing the animals. That’s a problem…

  • Connie

    Well then I don’t know…I’ll ask him about it if I think of it tomorrow. I may go down to Goldsboro if I can get my work done in time. My guess is though it is a “lesson” of some sort. Father does not do things off the cuff willy nilly. If it is concerning kids he is trying to teach them something. Survival skills… They are probably killing them and skinning them tonight along with cuttin’ up the meat. Then they are probably taking it home to eat I would imagine. I’ve had rabbit before. It seriously tastes like chicken. I’ll ask him if I remember it tomorrow and let you know.

  • Anonymous

    Connie,Thanks; a reasonable explanation might save him from a black eye. (Don’t worry, I’d never hit a priest) Someone must tell him that his behavior has, again, chased away good souls from the chapel.

  • Connie

    Well they’ll be back…like me…once they get a taste of the “ordinary rite” and “ordinary Catholic life” they’ll be back….a person can only ignore the immodest dress, irreverence, altar girls, hootin’ and hollerin’ in front of the Blessed Sacrament, banal liturgical music, etc. etc. for so long before they realize, “This is SO completely WRONG!” That’s what happened to me…

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/00789908867160711317 NCTradCatholic

    “I’m afraid I’d deck Father if I met him (again).” You’re a class act, Anonymous.

  • Anonymous

    Connie,I’m not so sure she’ll return; he really digusted her. I’ll gently suggest to her to ignore his un-manly behavior…she does know the difference. She described him as “posturing” over this…you know like “posing” that was popular a few yrs back with the youngins. I also was wondering if you could ask Father about the WK event. Could you report back what he honestly says about the interfaith chapel? From what I know of Father, he wouldn’t be scandalized by this Mass (held in the IF chapel). My guess, he’d prefer it in a Catholic chapel, but given the difficulty the IF chapel is better than nothing. I never could see your point that the IF chapel made the Mass another option; it sanctified the chapel and ruled out all other options…whether WF understands that now or later. I would be interested in Father’s comments. I’m told he is very admired by several NO priests and has a good understanding of the difficulty Bishop Jugis is in (and it is a very difficult position). And no ad libbing to his response…no opinions of yours or NCTrad…no explanation of a comment he makes…just what he says. Deal?

  • Anonymous

    NCTrad,Thanks! And you’re not bad yourself!

  • Connie

    I briefly spoke to him when I was leaving and he said, “I agree with you. It’s about the entire Faith.” That’s all he said. Then he had a very alarming look when I told him that Shabbat is celebrated in the Davis Chapel as well….If I get a chance I’ll talk to him about it more tomorrow. I was a Baptist so…maybe that is why I am even more “offended” that Mass is being said in a Baptist Chapel….It is relativism in the best sense of the word…There are no choices…Catholicism is IT…I finally get that. After 19-1/2 years of being Catholic, I finally GET THAT! Not to mention the obvious but this would have NEVER happened before Vatican II and you and I and the rest of the Catholic world knows it. Catholics would not step FOOT in a Baptist chapel let alone have Mass. It wasn’t last minute either. Sid has been working on this since the MP came out…Anyway, I’m not hashing all that out again. Yeah, the Mass santified the chapel until the Shabbat dinner the next day…but…anyway…shhhhhh

  • Anonymous

    Connie,But what did you say to Father that he responded so? You told him you were blogging??? I have an article here written by him that clearly shows his disapproval.Not to burst any bubbles; but Father does tend to pacify whomever he is speaking to…if he spoke with me, he’d agree to my point. It’s a guy thing and a needed skill in today’s priesthood. Before Vatican II, no one would dare raise a voice to Father or question his authority. Today, people treat priests more like chumps. And I’m proud that a young man named Sid fought for the Mass. I view it as a work in progress. He should have all the support possible to land the Mass in a Catholic church where it rightfully belongs. But until then…

  • Connie

    I asked Fr. if he had gotten the message I left him asking about the Rosary procession and my mentioning there would be a Mass at Wake Forest and that one of our families would be attending with one of their children serving. I didn’t say anything about the “entire Faith” thing. I don’t know where he got that…except that in his last couple of sermons he has been speaking against the Latin Mass in Dunn and how it is not the “entire Faith”…that it is about more than just the Mass and that we all have to choose. I actually GET THAT…after attending St. Leo’s! Mini skirts and tank tops at Mass! I actually get THAT! Good grief! I apologized to Sid up in an earlier thread (the one with Fr. Weber’s letter)….Not for my position but for the way I spoke to him or if I offended (which I probably did) Who knows, maybe Fr. Cook will respond to the emails Sid has been sending us, the “group.” He has been copying Fr. Cook on those emails…Honestly I’m not looking for Father to agree with me. I know darn good and well Archbishop LeFebvre would agree with me and I don’t think Bishop Fellay would have been caught dead in the Wake Forest chapel either… Bishop Williamson sure as heck wouldn’t been there….but again, I’m not looking for people to agree with me….I’m a hard-headed woman…until I discover for myself to the contrary, I’ll stick to my position…Maybe I’m wrong..but with 1900 years of Catholicism behind me…I don’t think so.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/00789908867160711317 NCTradCatholic

    A relevant point: Father Novak has been offering Holy Mass once a year at the original cathedral in Wilmington, as part of an SSPX pilgramage to the site. The cathedral was sold long ago and is used for, among other things, parties for the “gay” community in Wilmington. Father’s intention is to bring the Mass and the faith back for one weekend a year to the place where it originated in our state. But he doesn’t just show up, offer Mass, and then leave the place back to the heathens. He first consecrates the altar on Friday, and then de-consecrates after Monday’s Mass. Otherwise we have profane activity or false worship on or near a consecrated altar, and that’s a big no-no. I don’t know how long these ceremonies take, but they would probably be the most appropriate steps for Father Weber or any Catholic university chaplain to take. The priests who offered Holy Mass on the hoods of jeeps in the Pacific while the Japanese were shelling them didn’t have much choice, but that hardly describes our situation today. The Sacrifice that is offered on that altar is far more holy than anything offered by the Jewish priests in the Old Testament, and I can’t imagine them gladly sharing an altar with false religions. It’s not about taking “whatever WE can get”. The Mass is offered to God, not to us. We have forgotten that.I’m not judging or criticizing Father Weber. I am very pleased that the Holy Ghost has apparently inspired him to offer the Mass of all time. I hope he will at least progress to the point at which he will no longer offer to place the most Blessed Sacrament in people’s hands. Dan Hunter is quite right on that point.

  • Anonymous

    Connie,It is admirable that you apologized to Sid; saw that post, but wasn’t sure if it was sincere or dripping with sarcasm. Thanks for setting it straight for me.You have a lot you could share with these folks, Connie, but you “read” harsh…meaning you come across like The Hun on blog sites, which I now see is just a front. You are a kind woman looking for truth. I suppose this is why Father dislikes the internet…it is so impersonal and phony.And this awful world we live in now forces us (sometimes) to look to the non-Catholic world for the purpose of Catholicism. It is grace that has motivated Sid to seek out this Mass, I truly believe that. Rescuing a protestant or two along the way would be a good thing. This lad can’t find a Catholic church to hold this Mass! Fr. Weber seems to have the right intention (as opposed to Dunn?), so Friday night October 5, 2007 The Savior’s Grace poured out at WF. That is a really good thing. It might be difficult for a local pastor to allow the Mass in his parish if he is beingd been fwd a bunch of emails. It could easily be misunderstood…go to him face to face. It is a pity to have to agree with Fr. Z’s rules, but those rules are essential at this time. The Charlotte diocese is particularly against the LM…almost to the point of pure evil. Sid has his work cut out for him. God bless you for helping him.

  • Anonymous

    NCTrad,I must say you most certainly got it right! But the Japanese are the majority of the priests in the Char diocese! These times are so horrid we have become use to them. I am baffled a Catholic church won’t allow Fr Weber to say the Mass! I am baffled this obviously well intentioned priest is forced ( he is forced by law, whether he knows it or not) to offer Communion in the hand! Even the FSSP make a statement before Mass on that one.Sounds like you could be very helpful to Sid also…

  • Connie

    Anonymous,I’m not sure what “The Hun” is…. “Attila the Hun”?? What I had said a few days ago, prior to the Mass at Wake was MEANT to be “hunnish”/harsh. I won’t sugar-coat that. The thought of the Mass being said in an ecumenical environment still sears me up one side and down another…but its done, its over. My intention was not to offend anyone, least of all Sid. My intention was to get his attention and get my point across. (which I don’t think I did) …Euceminism/relativism is a tough one…It took me what seems like FOREVER to get over that hurdle. An unfortunate realization has come to light for me in all of this. The Mass of “all time” is being said under the new code of Canon Law (1983) which does allow communion in the hand, standing, even altar girls at the descretion of the local bishop. It never occurred to me that such things would even be considered by any priest, let alone the faithful, celebrating the 1962 missal, but now, I’m not so sure…The FSSP really makes that announcement? Good grief! You know it’s one thing to kiss the bishops ring out of respect for him and his office, it’s quite another to kiss his ass!(anonymous, that’s was “hunnish” and it was meant to be)

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/00789908867160711317 NCTradCatholic

    “Which of you, if his ass fell into a ditch on the Sabbath, would not pull his ass out of the ditch?”Oops. Wrong place on the calendar. The FSSP and the ICK are very much at the mercy of the local ordinaries. Why they still haven’t been given their own personal prelature or apostolic administration by Rome is anyone’s guess. I’m sure their new young (American) superior general would be a lot happier with such an arrangement. Now, according to the Motu Proprio, none of the Ecclesia Dei priests can refuse to offer the Novus Ordo! And we wonder why the SSPX isn’t eager to jump on the bandwagon??

  • Anonymous

    Connie,Your efforts will be completely ignored; you come across as pure emotion; you’ll receive the gracious pat on the head and lead to the door; your blast of fury drowns out anything you have to say. Even Sid has a ‘don’t pick on connie’ notice somewhere on the web; they’re not listening to you, they are trying to figure out how to handle you….pure Christian charity on their part, I must addd.

  • Anonymous

    NCTrad,Perfect humor pick up in your first paragraph! Got things back on track, also.On some days I’d like Bishop Fellay to sign an agreement; on most days I’m glad he hasn’t. Trad orders who are “in” have to carefully weigh every move they make. It is quite dangerous for a FSSP priest to announce before Mass that Communion will be given on the tongue only. Takes real courage to do such a thing…

  • Connie

    Anonymous,You are an odd one I must say. You speak about St. Anthony’s and Fr. Novak and about me as if you new us….hmmm….I think you DO know us….and I think I know YOU….!Good day A.S. “Anonymous”

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/00789908867160711317 NCTradCatholic

    Anonymous,Connie does not come across as “pure emotion” in person, and that is where the real conversation takes place. Ever read some of Gregory XVI’s encylicals? Now there’s emotion! Or for that matter, any of the pre-conciliar popes. Not all of us can come across as phlegmatic as Bishop Fellay. Much as I like what he says, I have a hard time staying awake when I’m watching him on the screen. Fortunately, our pastor is of a different temperament. Con gusto!

  • Anonymous

    Connie,???!!

  • Anonymous

    NCTrad,I have never seen an interview with Bishop Fellay, but I do look forward to reading his updates with Rome;he is always very clear and very level headed; never seems ruffled by the slow progress.I was wondering if you’d mentioned to Sid the consecration of the altar before and after Mass? Couldn’t that be done in this case? It might help those with reservations. I was not familiar with it and found it very reasonable….

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/06117353945124506952 The Crescat

    well now, aren’t we one big happy internet family, comlete with dysfunction and name calling. The only redeeming thing thus far…”Which of you, if his ass fell into a ditch on the Sabbath, would not pull his ass out of the ditch?”I’ll have to find a place to put that on the sidebar.

  • Anonymous

    CC,Sorry, CC; we did get carried away.Thanks for having a sense of humor, though!

  • SSPXer

    In case any one is listening still, I was not at the rabbit butchering, but it is my understanding that the animals were raised for food from the beginning and prepared after they were slaughtered into Rabbit Caccitore and consumed by several, including Fr. Novak.Our family has attended the Mass in Charlotte faithful for many years and are constantly amazed by the rumors that arise from uninformed people. Please know that Connie’s point about it not being simply about the Mass is right on. Our hope is that these new TL Masses being celebrated will be a stepping stone for those who have never been introduced to the fullness of the Catholic faith. The Mass is the center, but from it flows an entire way of thought. The faith is to be lived not simply memorized and/or debated.We also attended the Mass at Wake Forest. It was a good introduction for those who have never seen the TLM. For those who have known the TLM through the years, remember why you attend the Mass. It is simply not to fulfill your Sunday obligation, but to sanctify your soul and help you lead your family to heaven. Can you do this by simply going to Mass on Sunday? I don’t think so. If you are satisfied with just getting the Mass on Sundays or maybe a Holy Day once in a while, then why in the world have your sacrificed to go to the Mass over the years? What lead you to the Mass in the first place? Do not let convenience, ease, and acceptance blind side you. I do not believe Our Lord nor the saints ever gave us these as excuses for caving in.

  • Anonymous

    No one argued that the Mass was the entire Faith; where in the world did that come from? The is, however, the very heart of the Faith.

  • Anonymous

    Correction:The Mass is, however, the very heart of the Faith. Amen, Amen.

  • Anonymous

    That came from a continuation from the line of thought Connie started. I guess, Anonymous, that you have nothing to say about your incorrect, I hope not malicious, rumors about the events with rabbits at St. Anthony’s. Blogging does give some people the mistaken impression that they have a free pass on detraction.

  • SSPXer

    Connie’s idea that it is not all about the Mass was completly ignored. The posters got so hyped up on the rabbits and other distractions that the point was lost. Again, these new Latin Masses are a wonderful opportunity to expose more people to the beauty of the Mass and to show how much more God-centered the Tridentine Mass is. Hopefully, God will grant many people the grace to look more deeply into living the faith which is not flowing from our Novus Ordo parishes now (note: there are exceptions). But what happens when you have a priest saying the Novus Ordo in the early morning, the Latin Mass next, and then a Spanish Mass in the evening. ? What about the other sacraments? Can we get Traditional Catechism? Not have Altar girls, Communion in the hand, or Eucaristic Ministers? Explain to your children this is the same Mass you have been going to and then explain why the lady in front of him receives Our Lord in the hand. Everyone is so quick to jump on the bandwagon that they are suddenly not concerned about who, where, why, and how the Tridentine Mass is being said. Maybe this is ok for the oldsters, but God help our families who are raising children and suddenly they go from “fighting the good fight” to the closer location, better timed, and shorter Mass because it is easier. Is my family the perfect Catholic family? Not even close, but we sure are striving for it thanks to the Traditional values and truths we are learning from practicing “Traditional Catholicism”. Our family will support the new Masses because of the great hope for a restoration of these values in all parishes, but we will not abandon those we fought with to win this opportunity.

  • Anonymous

    anon to anon,It wasn’t a rumor I was spreading about the rabbits; they were part of the activities that day; I do not attend St. Anthony’s and wish it no harm; a female friend who does/was attending was frightened by the way the priest presented this activity. It’s that simple. I am the one who suggested she go out to St. Anthony’s for Mass, so I was very frustrated that she might recoil from this group by something she viewed as horrible. Were any of you there to hear the announcement(s)? I wasn’t, but it is my understanding this was announced for several weeks with unsavoring details.That leads me to the point that no matter if your blogging, writing a short story, or making an announcement at church the words you choose can have the potential of being harmful. SSPXer has it right on the money, the Faith must enter into everything thing we do, we say, we think. Do I think Father was trying to be distasteful? No, but his words were distasteful to at least one woman. It is very tempting to be critical of Catholics who are new to the Faith or new to the Latin Mass; “oldtimers” must remember that they don’t have it in the bag yet, which was my motive for bringing this up in the blog. I began to sense that the folks eager for their first LM were being treated like subcatholics. We all need to use the principles of Catholic living to get through these challenging times.However, this is just my opinion.

  • Connie

    Wow!I didn’t know this thread was still active! SSPXer…thanks for the support! I was starting to feel like St. Thomas More “alone in the tower.” And just so you know, “anonymous”…(the anonymous who complained about the so-called “rabbit slaughter”)…your complaint is duly noted. Father told me today that he has read these “exchanges” on this blog. I guess someone pointed them out to him…

  • Anonymous

    Connie,Very interesting that Father read the blog; now, is he going to make an e-statement to set everyone right? (that is a bit of humor)The final part of this that I remain painfully curious about is did anyone tell Sid of the altar consecration TradNC mentioned? It seems to me that was the obstacle in your way of totally supporting the idea and attending the WF Mass. Or do I have that wrong, also?

  • Connie

    I had several obstacles to attending that Mass…Obstacle 1.)I refuse step foot in a Baptist church to attend a Catholic Mass…It’s so absurd a concept I can’t even find the words…Obstacle 2.) As I mentioned when this discussion began, it is ludicrious to set aside these little “approved” Latin Mass communities because that will not help change the dying Catholic Faith. (see nonsensical example below) The Mass is not about us and our own little private personal “experiences” and neither is the Catholic Faith. I don’t know if anyone mentioned the consecration of the altar to Sid. Hopefully he read these comments, at least that one from NCTrad, and told Father Weber. Example: St. Leo’s is promoting the Charasmatic Renewal and Spirit of Assisi, both of which were found in the bulletin this past Sunday, (I did not attend Mass there this past Sunday but I picked up a bulletin today when I was in there to pray the Rosary) Not to mention St. Leo’s is having a “get your groovey on” 70s fest/auction “Come wearing your best 70s attire” it said….ridiculous. There was no BEST attire in the 70s… I remember the 70s. Good grief. Nothing about God, nothing about Our Lord…just human baffoonery!

  • Anonymous

    Connie,While reading your latest post, it struck me that perhaps you should get involved at some level with this budding group to help keep them on the up and up; perhaps by helping Fr. Weber obtain everything he needs to offer Mass worthily; perhaps by helping Sid, et al with the Latin pronunciation; perhaps by “accidently” leaving 3,456 flyers on the WF campus explaining the Catholic Faith; that might burst their ecumenical bubble and, hence, throw you out of their chapel, but you would have made a dent. Who better to speak with the WF young adults than a Baptist convert?

  • Connie

    I still get Sid’s emails…I’m on the list and have been for awhile now. I’m happy to help him and the others in any way I can, within the confines of what our Catholic Faith allows of course.


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