RealCatholicTV.com not authorized to use “Catholic” …

From the Archdiocese of Detroit,

The Church encourages the Christian faithful to promote or sustain a variety of apostolic undertakings but, nevertheless, prohibits any such undertaking from claiming the name Catholic without the consent of the competent ecclesiastical authority (see canon 216 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law). For some time, the Archdiocese of Detroit has been in communication with Mr. Michael Voris and his media partner at Real Catholic TV regarding their prominent use of the word “Catholic” in identifying and promoting their public activities disseminated from the enterprise’s production facility in Ferndale, Michigan. The Archdiocese has informed Mr. Voris and Real Catholic TV, RealCatholicTV.com, that it does not regard them as being authorized to use the word “Catholic” to identify or promote their public activities. Questions about this matter may be directed to the Archdiocese of Detroit, Department of Communications.”

Think what you will of Voris but I find this action by the Archdiocese a bit puzzling. I mean, really. Of all the organizations and people that run around speaking for The Church is it necessary to target RealCatholicTV.com and Mr. Voris’s activities?

Yes, RealCatholicTV can be a bit controversial but are they a source of scandal? Well there was that one time, but it had absolutely nothing to do with the organization and the media content it distributes. Correct me if I’m wrong, but to my knowledge and to date RealCatholicTV.com has never made any outright false and fabricated claims or accusations against the The Church and Her members and Her clergy.

UPDATED 12/24/11: Marc Brammer, owner of RealCatholicTV.com responds to the Archdiocese of Detroit’s request.

“Brammer told LifeSiteNews, “I own RealCatholicTV.com. I contracted with Michael Voris to produce video content for that website and I pay him for it. It is a business relationship between me and Michael. If all of a sudden now there’s this tussle over the use of the word ‘Catholic’ I’ll deal with it through competent ecclesial authority.”

Brammer noted that he had received a letter from the Archdiocese of Detroit acknowledging him as the owner of the website. He responded to that letter with a request for a meeting with the Archdiocese. He received no response. Brammer has not been asked by his bishop, Fort Wayne-South Bend Bishop Kevin Rhoades to cease using the word Catholic.

A LifeSiteNews request for an interview with the Archdiocese of Detroit was not returned, and the voice message noted that the office was on holiday till after Christmas. ”

I’ve heard, in fact, that Brammer has made seven requests to the Archdiocese of Detroit to meet with them regarding their request to cease using “Catholic”. After that many requests being closed for the holiday weekend seems hardly the excuse. I would like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt but when Detroit can find time to meet with those elephant people it does make their actions seem rather odd and suspect.

About Katrina Fernandez

Mackerel Snapping Papist

  • Mlalexand99

    This happened to my Mom when she had the audacity to start a Catholic Homeschooling Group. Letter from the Bishop saying cease and desist.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      Really?! That’s outrageously bizarre.

      • Babs

        From what I understand, it’s a liability issue regarding lawsuits and tax status. In other words, the diocese may need to have documentation that your Catholic organization is not under the Vatican or diocese in an official capacity. Bishops have to cover their bases when living in a litigious society.

        • Lydiamcgrew

          I don’t buy that. If some home schooling moms’ group says it’s a group of Catholic moms, there is no way in Hades that a litigant can sue the diocese for what they do. Any more than, if some home schooling group of moms calls themselves “Methodist” the local United Methodist bishop or whatever he is can be sued for what they do. That definitely sounds like an excuse to me for exercising arbitrary power. No doubt the canon on which it’s based was meant to be applied to allegedly Catholic hospitals that perform abortions and the like. The application to Voris’s group looks like “see, I can be mean to conservatives” theater.

      • Metaphysical Catholic

        No, because by saying “Catholic” that way she is saying she is teaching just like the Church would.  She could have called it “The Seacacus Catholic Moms group” or something with no problem.  

  • Brian Kemple

    It’d be nice if more dioceses did this when, you know, Womynpriests ran around marrying goats under rainbow-colored felt banners that say “Catholic” with that idiotic “coexist” symbol on the back.

  • http://twitter.com/manwithblackhat David L Alexander

    My advice to Michael would be either to appeal it through the canonical process (which would stall the effects of any action until there’s a ruling), or to ignore the decree altogether. Unless he has committed a verifiable offense (and pissing off a bishop is nowhere mentioned in canon law), it is an unjust law. Also, he does not require the Church’s blessing to continue to operate, as would a hospital, for instance. Bottom line, this is an exercise in curial political theater and I would NOT back down.

    • http://www.traddyiniowa.blogspot.com Andy Milam

      He has no recourse through Canon law. RealCatholic TV is both right and wrong at the very same time. It is an indefensible position.

      • Lionel Andrades

        Sunday, January 15, 2012
        Will Bishops Allen Vigneron and Kevin Rhoades give permission for a website against Michael Vorris? Robert Sungenis called his (former) bishop Kevin Rhoades a heretic since he could not say in public that Judaism is not a path to salvation and that Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation (to avoid Hell). A website was created Robert Sungenis and the Jews. While Bishop Kevin Rhoades, the former bishop of Harrisburg, Penn. asked Robert Sungenis to remove the word ‘Catholic ‘from his website Catholics Apologetics International. This was widely reported by the Jewish Left media including the anti-Sungenis website.

        Michael Vorris produced a good video titled The Jews. Robert Sungenis carried it on his website and wrote, ‘At last someone has got it right!’

        The video said the Catholic Church is the continuation of the Jewish religion. Catholics have the Jewish Messiah.They have the  Sacrifice in the Mass. So this is the Eternal Covenant of the new Chosen People of God.

        Sunday, January 15, 2012Will Bishops Allen Vigneron and Kevin Rhoades give permission for a website against Michael Vorris? Robert Sungenis called his (former) bishop Kevin Rhoades a heretic since he could not say in public that Judaism is not a path to salvation and that Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation (to avoid Hell). A website was created Robert Sungenis and the Jews. While Bishop Kevin Rhoades, the former bishop of Harrisburg, Penn. asked Robert Sungenis to remove the word ‘Catholic ‘from his website Catholics Apologetics International. This was widely reported by the Jewish Left media including the anti-Sungenis website.Michael Vorris produced a good video titled The Jews. Robert Sungenis carried it on his website and wrote, ‘At last someone has got it right!’The video said the Catholic Church is the continuation of the Jewish religion. Catholics have the Jewish Messiah.They have the  Sacrifice in the Mass. So this is the Eternal Covenant of the new Chosen People of God

        Archbishop Allen Vigneron, the Archbishop of Detroit where Real Catholic TV is situated asked Michael Vorris to remove the name Catholic from Real CatholicTV.com. The owner of Real Catholic TV.com Marc Brammer lives in the Indiana Fort Wayne- South Bend diocese where Bishop Kevin Rhoades is the bishop.
        Now will Bishop Kevin Rhoades approve a hit-website against Michael Vorris and Real Catholic TV.com?
        When Fr. Brian Harrison O.S pointed out that the website Robert Sungenis and the Jews was not Catholic in its attitude to the issue and that it also lacked charity , those  who maintained the website turned on him. They began a political attack. They politicized a doctrinal issue with the support of Bishop Kevin Rhoades and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops who did not say that the website was ‘not Catholic’.
        Similarly in the past Archbishop Richard Cushing used his office to prevent Fr. Leonard Feeney from teaching the traditional interpretation of the dogma outside the church there is no salvation. Fr.Leonard Feeney was being opposed by the Jews in Boston. Instead of supporting Fr. Feeney the Archbishop placed restrictions on the priest’s ability to offer Mass and hear Confession. Catholics were discouraged from visiting the St. Benedict Center. The Jesuits expelled a few Catholic professors from Boston College who were loyal to the teachings of the Catholic Church. They were criticised in communication with Rome.
        The Richard Cushing-Leonard Feeney, Kevin Rhoades-Robert Sungenis case is the visible manifestation of how the faith is compromised when there is political pressure from outside the Church. The bishops are not answering basic questions about the faith for fear of retaliation. Now they are making a virtue out of a necessity and putting restrictions on those lay Catholics who are still speaking the truth.
        Basic questions about the Catholic Faith are still there before those who maintain the website Robert Sungenis and the Jews and they are still there before Bishop Kevin Rhoades.
        1. Does the Catholic Church teach that Judaism is not a path to salvation? (Dominus Iesus 20, CDF,Notification on Fr.Jacques Dupuis S.J, Letter of the Holy Office 1949 (reference to ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible teaching’ ), Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441etc.
        2. Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid Hell (for salvation)? (Vatican Council II, Ad Gentes 7,Lumen Gentium 14 etc)
        The new ‘thought monitors’ are not going to answer these questions and they will persecute and oppose any Catholic, who does not deny the Faith.
        Bishop Kevin Rhoades is unable to say that Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation (to avoid Hell). He still maintains vaguely that Jesus is necessary for salvation. So one can believe that invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are the ordinary means of salvation and so Jews do not have to convert into the Catholic Church.They are saved in general through Jesus and the Church is the lie. The ordinary means of salvation is not invincible ignorance etc but Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.(LG 14, AG 7).
        Bishop Rhoades could not even answer something as basic as ‘Are non Catholic religions paths to salvation? ’ (Dominus Iesus 20, CDF, Notification on Fr. Jacques Dupuis S.J).
        Then there is the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, thrice defined. He still cannot affirm it in public and secondly considers those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire as possible exceptions to the dogma. This would mean that the baptism of desire is visible and so an exception to the dogma and that we know of explicit cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance. One could phone or meet them.
        This is the heresy of Cushingism. It was Cardinal Richard Cushing, Archbishop of Boston who said that there was salvation outside the church implying that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are explicitly known to us, for them to be exceptions to the dogma.
        Cushingism is heresy.
        It was Robert Sungenis who accused the bishop of being a heretic, not for the sin of Cushingism, but since he could basically not say that Judaism is not a path to salvation and that Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid Hell.
        In spite of the propaganda Robert Sungenis has not given up his Catholic Faith even though he must have had to pay a price for his faithfulness to Catholic teaching.
        Now the same whip of declaring someone not a Catholic is being applied to Real Catholic TV.com. Accusations are being made against Michael Vorris without naming the charge. The Sungenis case is a precedent which tells us why Michael Vorris is targeted.
        Michael Vorris understands and has produced a video A Free Country http://youtu.be/9-0aCDYDbnA  . Robert Sungenis has placed it on the homepage of his website, The Bellarmine Report (Catholic Apologetics International).
        -Lionel Andrades

      • Lionel Andrades

        Sunday, January 15, 2012
        Will Bishops Allen Vigneron and Kevin Rhoades give permission for a website against Michael Vorris? Robert Sungenis called his (former) bishop Kevin Rhoades a heretic since he could not say in public that Judaism is not a path to salvation and that Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation (to avoid Hell). A website was created Robert Sungenis and the Jews. While Bishop Kevin Rhoades, the former bishop of Harrisburg, Penn. asked Robert Sungenis to remove the word ‘Catholic ‘from his website Catholics Apologetics International. This was widely reported by the Jewish Left media including the anti-Sungenis website.

        Michael Vorris produced a good video titled The Jews. Robert Sungenis carried it on his website and wrote, ‘At last someone has got it right!’

        The video said the Catholic Church is the continuation of the Jewish religion. Catholics have the Jewish Messiah.They have the  Sacrifice in the Mass. So this is the Eternal Covenant of the new Chosen People of God.

        Sunday, January 15, 2012Will Bishops Allen Vigneron and Kevin Rhoades give permission for a website against Michael Vorris? Robert Sungenis called his (former) bishop Kevin Rhoades a heretic since he could not say in public that Judaism is not a path to salvation and that Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation (to avoid Hell). A website was created Robert Sungenis and the Jews. While Bishop Kevin Rhoades, the former bishop of Harrisburg, Penn. asked Robert Sungenis to remove the word ‘Catholic ‘from his website Catholics Apologetics International. This was widely reported by the Jewish Left media including the anti-Sungenis website.Michael Vorris produced a good video titled The Jews. Robert Sungenis carried it on his website and wrote, ‘At last someone has got it right!’The video said the Catholic Church is the continuation of the Jewish religion. Catholics have the Jewish Messiah.They have the  Sacrifice in the Mass. So this is the Eternal Covenant of the new Chosen People of God

        Archbishop Allen Vigneron, the Archbishop of Detroit where Real Catholic TV is situated asked Michael Vorris to remove the name Catholic from Real CatholicTV.com. The owner of Real Catholic TV.com Marc Brammer lives in the Indiana Fort Wayne- South Bend diocese where Bishop Kevin Rhoades is the bishop.
        Now will Bishop Kevin Rhoades approve a hit-website against Michael Vorris and Real Catholic TV.com?
        When Fr. Brian Harrison O.S pointed out that the website Robert Sungenis and the Jews was not Catholic in its attitude to the issue and that it also lacked charity , those  who maintained the website turned on him. They began a political attack. They politicized a doctrinal issue with the support of Bishop Kevin Rhoades and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops who did not say that the website was ‘not Catholic’.
        Similarly in the past Archbishop Richard Cushing used his office to prevent Fr. Leonard Feeney from teaching the traditional interpretation of the dogma outside the church there is no salvation. Fr.Leonard Feeney was being opposed by the Jews in Boston. Instead of supporting Fr. Feeney the Archbishop placed restrictions on the priest’s ability to offer Mass and hear Confession. Catholics were discouraged from visiting the St. Benedict Center. The Jesuits expelled a few Catholic professors from Boston College who were loyal to the teachings of the Catholic Church. They were criticised in communication with Rome.
        The Richard Cushing-Leonard Feeney, Kevin Rhoades-Robert Sungenis case is the visible manifestation of how the faith is compromised when there is political pressure from outside the Church. The bishops are not answering basic questions about the faith for fear of retaliation. Now they are making a virtue out of a necessity and putting restrictions on those lay Catholics who are still speaking the truth.
        Basic questions about the Catholic Faith are still there before those who maintain the website Robert Sungenis and the Jews and they are still there before Bishop Kevin Rhoades.
        1. Does the Catholic Church teach that Judaism is not a path to salvation? (Dominus Iesus 20, CDF,Notification on Fr.Jacques Dupuis S.J, Letter of the Holy Office 1949 (reference to ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible teaching’ ), Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441etc.
        2. Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid Hell (for salvation)? (Vatican Council II, Ad Gentes 7,Lumen Gentium 14 etc)
        The new ‘thought monitors’ are not going to answer these questions and they will persecute and oppose any Catholic, who does not deny the Faith.
        Bishop Kevin Rhoades is unable to say that Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation (to avoid Hell). He still maintains vaguely that Jesus is necessary for salvation. So one can believe that invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are the ordinary means of salvation and so Jews do not have to convert into the Catholic Church.They are saved in general through Jesus and the Church is the lie. The ordinary means of salvation is not invincible ignorance etc but Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.(LG 14, AG 7).
        Bishop Rhoades could not even answer something as basic as ‘Are non Catholic religions paths to salvation? ’ (Dominus Iesus 20, CDF, Notification on Fr. Jacques Dupuis S.J).
        Then there is the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, thrice defined. He still cannot affirm it in public and secondly considers those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire as possible exceptions to the dogma. This would mean that the baptism of desire is visible and so an exception to the dogma and that we know of explicit cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance. One could phone or meet them.
        This is the heresy of Cushingism. It was Cardinal Richard Cushing, Archbishop of Boston who said that there was salvation outside the church implying that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are explicitly known to us, for them to be exceptions to the dogma.
        Cushingism is heresy.
        It was Robert Sungenis who accused the bishop of being a heretic, not for the sin of Cushingism, but since he could basically not say that Judaism is not a path to salvation and that Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid Hell.
        In spite of the propaganda Robert Sungenis has not given up his Catholic Faith even though he must have had to pay a price for his faithfulness to Catholic teaching.
        Now the same whip of declaring someone not a Catholic is being applied to Real Catholic TV.com. Accusations are being made against Michael Vorris without naming the charge. The Sungenis case is a precedent which tells us why Michael Vorris is targeted.
        Michael Vorris understands and has produced a video A Free Country http://youtu.be/9-0aCDYDbnA  . Robert Sungenis has placed it on the homepage of his website, The Bellarmine Report (Catholic Apologetics International).
        -Lionel Andrades

  • moderncomments

    But not a word about politicians, left-leaning “Catholic” groups and others who use the Catholic name and faith with reckless abandon — openly defying and celebratory about defying Catholic teaching — and the bishops are practically silent.

    Anyone else see a glaring double standard here?

    • worm

      I’m not seeing it. This is about an organization claiming Catholic status. The correct analogy would be something like St. Joseph’s Hospital in Phoenix that had its Catholic status stripped (http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2010/12/21/20101221phoenix-diocese-strips-st-josephs-hospital-catholic-status.html). And even there, it is more serious since it had offical Catholic status to begin with. As for politicians, the analogy would be Mr. Voris himself. Mr. Voris is not being execommunicated here nor is anyone even accusing him of being a bad Catholic. Nor have I heard of any bishop wanting to discuss Mr. Voris’ public views with him as has been done with some politicians.

      I’m just not seeing these situations as comparable.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=728802907 Christine Niles

        Worm–The difference is that St. Joseph’s Hospital was performing ABORTIONS and yet claiming the moniker “Catholic”, which required the diocese to take action.

        RCTV is doing nothing wrong, has taught nothing wrong, but is, rather, 100% orthodox and faithful to the Magisterium.

        The problem here is not with the Archbishop–it is with the chancery staff, who are leftovers from pro-homosexual activist Bishop Gumbleton’s time. They can’t stand Voris, for obvious reasons.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=728802907 Christine Niles

    Voris has responded: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocese-of-detroit-asks-michael-voris-to-stop-using-the-name-catholic

    Voris told LifeSiteNews, “I don’t have ownership over the name of the organization. It’s not my organization. The headquarters are outside of the diocese.” He concluded, “It’s the wrong person, and the wrong outfit asking the wrong person the wrong question.”

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      Fantastic, Christine. Thank you for the link and update.

    • Metaphysical Catholic

      If Voris really said this he’s lying. Voris has a business called Concept Communications.  I saw a post at the Catholic Answer Forums where someone linked to the State of Michigan online files showing Voris added RealCatholicTV as a business name to operate under to his Concept corporation.  That guy in Indiana, he just owns the domain name.
       realcatholictv.com   The whole thing really belongs to Voris. 

      • Pop

        Hey Metaphysical, Do you have permission to use the name “Catholic”?  Real CAtholic TV isn’t a business.  Its a DBA for Voris’ Concept company used to deposit checks that come in for realcatholictv.  A DBA isnt a company or business.  Its an assumed name used by and large for bank deposits, nothing else.  Since Brammer’s company pays Voris’ company, why should it be surprising that Voris’s company has a bank account to receive deposits from one of his clients?  

  • http://twitter.com/robwardle robert wardle

    An easy solution is to use a lower case c in catholic. Not much could be done after that.

  • Anonymous

    Does the Catholic Church have a monopoly on the word Catholic? As far as I am concerned Michael Voris speaks more truth about the Church more than 99% of the bishops? It is interesting that church bureaucracies try to strong arm orthodox organizations using the term Catholic while giving a blind eye to the Catholic dissenters. In any case there are Old Catholics, Ango-Catholics and many other types of Catholics. What right does any bishop have is restricting use of the term especially over the Internet? I suggest that Mr. Voris move to a more orthodox jurisdiction.

  • Tony Layne

    The really odd thing is, Abp. Vigneron was the one who did everything possible to put a damper on the ACC meeting in his see this last summer. He’s not a progressive or a leftist; neither is Voris or RCTV … what’s his beef?

    • http://www.traddyiniowa.blogspot.com Andy Milam

      It has very little to do with His Excellency and everything to do with the staff which has remained in place from the Maida regime.

  • http://defend-us-in-battle.blogspot.com Joseph K.

    Canon 216 comes into play here. The key word is consent. The point is that Bishops do have a right, and obligation to safeguard “Catholic.”

    That being said, barking up the RCTV tree isn’t about what Voris says, per se, it is about a long running feud with the Archdiocese – more the Chancery than the Archbishop.

    In the end, this hurts the Archdiocese because they come off looking imprudent. If you look at some of the issues in the AOD, you will see that Voris should be the last of their concerns.

    • Lionel Andrades

      Thursday, January 19, 2012
      CANON LAWYER IN INDIANA NEEDS TO BE ASKED : IS BISHOP KEVIN RHOADES JURIDICALLY A CATHOLIC ? Evidence of the Fort Wayne Bend bishops denial of the Catholic Faith is on a website.Canon Lawyer Fr. Mark Gurtner (Judicial Vicar of the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend in Indiana) said, it was reported on the internet, that the jurisdiction of the case against Real Catholic TV.com lies in the Indiana diocese whose bishop is Kevin Rhoades.Bishop Kevin Rhoades when he was the bishop of Harrisburg, Pennsylavia had also asked apologist Robert Sungenis to remove the name ‘Catholic’ from this website Catholic Apologetics International (CAI).The issue was the Jewish Left.Bishop Kevin Rhoades also approved a website Robert Sungenis and the Jews and provided statements to Michael Forrest which are still there on this anti-Sungenis website.I had asked three questions of Bishop Rhoades and also written to other priests hoping they would answer them and so diffuse the tension at that time.The three questions were posted on the website Robert Sungenis and the Jews but were not answered. There was no answer also from ishop Kevin Rhoades. Robert Sungenis called Bishop Rhoades and Catholics United for the Faith, Steubenville, heretics.Thursday, January 19, 2012CANON LAWYER IN INDIANA NEEDS TO BE ASKED : IS BISHOP KEVIN RHOADES JURIDICALLY A CATHOLIC ? Evidence of the Fort Wayne Bend bishops denial of the Catholic Faith is on a website.Canon Lawyer Fr. Mark Gurtner (Judicial Vicar of the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend in Indiana) said, it was reported on the internet, that the jurisdiction of the case against Real Catholic TV.com lies in the Indiana diocese whose bishop is Kevin Rhoades.Bishop Kevin Rhoades when he was the bishop of Harrisburg, Pennsylavia had also asked apologist Robert Sungenis to remove the name ‘Catholic’ from this website Catholic Apologetics International (CAI).The issue was the Jewish Left.Bishop Kevin Rhoades also approved a website Robert Sungenis and the Jews and provided statements to Michael Forrest which are still there on this anti-Sungenis website.
      I had asked three questions of Bishop Rhoades and also written to other priests hoping they would answer them and so diffuse the tension at that time.The three questions were posted on the website Robert Sungenis and the Jews but were not answered. There was no answer also from ishop Kevin Rhoades. Robert Sungenis called Bishop Rhoades and Catholics United for the Faith, Steubenville, heretics.According to Canon Law a bishop is a juridical person and has to be a Catholic. He is obliged to affirm the teachings of the Catholic Church.If Bishop Rohades does not affirm the faith when asked it is a denial.1. Bishop Kevin Rhoades  is denying an ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Outside the Church No Salvation). http://catholicism.org/category/outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation2. He is refusing to say that Judaism and other religions are not paths to salvation.3. He is refusing to say that Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation (to avoid Hell).4. The Bishop in Indiana is assuming that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are defacto known to us in the present times, since he considers them exceptions to the dogma and other magisterial teachings.5. Bishop Kevin Rhoades is assuming that there is some magisterial text which claims that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are defacto exceptions to the dogma outside the church there is no salvation.

      This is all contrary to Vatican Council II (LG 14, AG 7), Dominus Iesus 20, extra ecclesiam nulla salus as explained by popes and Church Councils in the ordinary and extraordinary mode etc.Bishop Kevin Rhoades offers Holy Mass when it is a mortal sin to reject an ex cathedra dogma. He denies Church teachings on other religions and yet calls himself a ‘Catholic’.He uses his office to tell those who are faithful to the very teachings he rejects, not to use the word Catholic i.e apologists Robert Sungenis and Michael Voris.The denial of the faith is there in the four points he mentions to Michael Forrest on the website Robert Sungenis and the Jews. http://sungenisandthejews.blogspot.com/2008/02/bishop-rhoades-sets-record-straight_21.htmlThe Canon Lawyer from Indiana who has said that the jurisdiction over the Real Catholic.TV.com lies in the diocese of Fort-Wayne South Bend where Marc Brammar the owner of Real Catholic TV.com lives, could also let us know if Bishop Kevin Rhoades has the right to juridically call himself a Catholic and to offer Holy Mass.
      -Lionel Andrades

      BISHOP KEVIN RHOADES DENIES THE CATHOLIC FAITH
      http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/01/bishop-kevin-rhoades-denies-catholic.html
      JEWISH CATHOLIC DAY OF REFLECTION TODAY http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/01/jewish-catholic-day-of-reflection-day.htmlWill Bishops Allen Vigneron and Kevin Rhoades give permission for a website against Michael Vorris?http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/01/will-bishops-allen-vigneron-and-kevin.htmlQuestions for the Canon Lawyers:Can Archbishop Allen Vigneron and Bishop Kevin Rhoades be considered Catholic if they refuse to affirm in public the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
      http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/01/questions-for-canon-lawyers-can.htmlIt's a Free Country.. : A Catholic who rejects a defined dogma like outside the church no salvation is automatically excomunicated. He has no right to use the word ‘Catholic’. http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/01/its-free-country.htmlhttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/01/canon-lawyer-in-indiana-needs-to-be.html

  • http://profiles.google.com/christinehebert65 Christine Hebert

    Sounds like the Archdiocese may have some skeletons in the closet. While Mr.Voris can be abrasive, he certainly does not take being Catholic lightly and he does what our “shepherds” in the bishops’ offices refuse to do: point out error.

  • Ed

    All the other pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and truly non-Catholic enities out there and they go after the one that’s actucally true to the teachings to the Church. Makes you wonder about who’s in charge Detroit.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1604444633 Mark Richer

    I get the need to safeguard the “brand”. But perhaps the appropriate pastoral approach would be to reach to the end of the desk and pick up the damned phone.

    • Mary

      The Arch. of Detroit cant pick up the phone and call Voris because they would first have to apologize for all the calumnies and slanders they have said about him in private for the past six years and they dont want to do that.
      One woman who used to work int he evangelization office (joke) has openly told other catholics in Detroit that Voris is a heretic.  I’ve heard this with my own ears.  When asked what is his heresy, she responded, “I cant remember”.  Pleeeeaaassseee!

  • http://www.traddyiniowa.blogspot.com Andy Milam

    Herein lies the problem though. Catholicism isn’t a “brand.” It is a religion. While it is the responsibility of the bishops to protect Holy Mother Church, the idea that to prohibit someone from using the word “Catholic” is ludicrous, especially since there is nothing in the material which SHOULD be offensive to Catholics.

    I’m no apologist for RealCatholicTV. I am an apologist for the Catholic Church. I think that as we look at the CIC, we see a big issue which is a huge issue for the leadership of the Church since the reforms after Vatican Council II. It is another instance of both/and….either/or. It is a false dichotomy. How can a just law say that there is the freedom to do something, yet in the very next paragraph limit that freedom? It is illogical.

    It would be akin to saying you may approach an intersection without any marking and proceed through, but you can’t proceed through unless the police allow you to. The ability to use prudent judgment has been completely compromised.

    This is the big issue which faces the Church today. Her leadership is so directed by a mentality of opinion and subjectivity, that even the most basic of understandings are in peril. This may sound harsh, but it is part of the problem with the shift of philosophy from Thomistic to Phenomenonological. When the shift took place, the only real end that could happen would be a move to the subjective. The person is the center and that is how he relates to the objective truths. That isn’t right. That is the both/and…either/or mentality which rules the Church today, philosophically. What’s right is that the truth is at the center and man relates to the truth by applying it to himself in a just way. This is clearly not how can. 216 operates.

    I think that what we see in the persecution of RealCatholic TV is a logical outgrowth of the movement away from objectivity and the move toward subjectivity. When the subjective becomes the focus, then it is much easier to offend the senses. When the objective becomes the focus, there are no senses to offend, because the truth is the truth.

    If it can be substantially proven that Michael Voris and RealCatholic TV have done anything other than to focus on the truth, then they should be chastised. To date, I have not found anything that RealCatholic TV has done or promoted, or stated which is anything other than consistent with 2000 years of Catholic teaching.

    And that’s the real problem now isn’t it? The reformers wanted to reimagine the Church in their image starting in 1967. It started with the Mass, it then moved to the CIC, and finally to the CCC. Three of the major defining points of the Church have been re-invented into something of a super dogma. Interesting times…and one which should base itself on 2000 years, not 40.

    • Martinandjolienert

      Mr Andy Milam,

      Bravo. Thank you for a crystal clear reply. Ever thought about an apostolate in media??

      • http://www.traddyiniowa.blogspot.com Andy Milam

        Thank you for the kind words.  To be honest…no it has never crossed my mind.  I have my blog and I help in my parish.

        I hope that through my blog I’ll be able to make my opinions clearly known.  I know I’m not right 100% of the time, but I can honestly say that what we’re talking about isn’t rocket science….it is the application of Catholicism in an authentic way.  If you’d like to check out my blog, click on my name…

        May God Keep you close!

  • Pia

    This article has the facts well substantiated.  It’s very easy to cry victim, but I seriously doubt the Archdiocese is errant with regard to overseeing the apostolates under its jurisdiction.  In reading it, you’ll note that there is a strange conflict of interest with both Indiana and Michigan claiming the same assumed name, and it strongly points to Voris being the owner of the Michigan corporation.
    http://thecuriouscatholic.blogspot.com/

  • Pia

    “Brammer told LifeSiteNews, “I own RealCatholicTV.com. I contracted with Michael Voris to produce video content for that website and I pay him for it.”

    That being true, then there will be filings to reflect this with the IRS, such as 1099′s showing income from Brammer.  It raises the question whether RCTV who collects upwards from $1,500,000 annually from premium subscriptions actually reports this under the Michigan LLC as personal income? 

    Having checked the filings in Indiana, Brammer filed as a domestic entity, indicating that the business would operate in Indiana, whereas we know it operates out of state in Michigan.  The filing should have noted it was a foreign entity, and at least named another principal other than Brammer.  Concept Communications, owned by Voris, filed in 2010 for the same assumed name under its OWN business, which raises more questions.  Why file again for another assumed name under his own business  two years after Brammer’s filing in 2008?  It looks rather evasive to anyone with a bit of common sense.

    • Terry

      I cannot imagine where you get your data, but if your statement that “RCTV … collects upwards from $1,500,000 annually from premium subscriptions” is any indication of accuracy, you deserve an audience of zero.  St. Michael’s Media and RealCatholicTV.com haven’t grossed that much in the entire time of their existence (5+ years) much less in a single year.  Whoever is feeding you data is getting a huge laugh at your expense.

    • George

      Pia, if you are going to hurl around innuendo and financial figures as if they are facts, you better be sure what you are saying is accurate.  And for the record, you couldnt be more off base with your ridiculous number of 1.5 million.  Please substantiate exactly from where you get that figure.
      RCTV.com is a website owned by a privately owned Indiana company, so unless you have  personal access to those financial records, how could you possibly know how much or how little it makes.
      And regards to how much it makes, do you also know how much it spends.  In business, regardless of how much you make, what matters is how much you have left over.  So you are wrong on both counts, but spout off as if you know something, when in fact you know NOTHING.  
      Please tell the blogs RIGHT NOW, where you got the figure of 1.5 million from or retract it immediately. You have absolutely NO WAY of knowing what this company makes. And if you do per chance, please tell us how.

    • Beaufort

      It only looks evasive if you have an evil mind and no business experience.  DBA’s (Doing Business As) as very common and are almost always set up as a means to receive and funds and deposit them in bank accounts. I would be certain that the Real Catholic TV dba in Michigan is nothing more than a bank account attached to Voris’ Concept business in order to cash checks made out to realcatholictv. 
      That’s hardly evasive, sneaky or underhanded.  Pia clearly has too much time on her hands and has read one too many John Grisham novels.  Hey Pia, try owning and running a business for a while that does business across state lines and then come back with your tales of intrigue and conspiracy.  

    • William

      $1,500,000? Is this woman insane? Or is this a joke.  

      RCTV does make a fraction of that, and i know because I have been involved with them and seen their financials because of some work I have done for them (and still do).  I am not going to say what they earn because it’s not my place, but I can absolutely attest to these facts – 1) it isn’t anywhere even near that kind of money and 2) the amount they do make isn’t enough to cover their costs.  And i know, because I assist them and they are very revealing to me about their financials.

      I have no idea who PIA is, but I would suggest that the site master here make her (him) prove an assertion like someone’s annual income before allowing it to be posted.  First of all – it’s private.  Secondly, its slanderous when its a lie ginned up to make someone look bad and guilty and evil.

  • Lionel Andrades

    The Archdiocese of Detroit also opposed Real Catholic TV.com’s understanding of other religions and Christian communities. Vorris affirms the dogma outside the church there is no salvation.
    The case is similar to that of apologist Robert Sungenis of Catholic Apologetics International (CAI). His former bishop asked him to remove the name Catholic from CAI. Robert was also being opposed by the Jewish Left while his bishop was unable to say in public that Jews need to convert into the Church for salvation.
    The Archdiocese of Detroit also opposed Real Catholic TV.com’s understanding of other religions and Christian communities. Vorris affirms the dogma outside the church there is no salvation.The case is similar to that of apologist Robert Sungenis of Catholic Apologetics International (CAI). His former bishop asked him to remove the name Catholic from CAI. Robert was also being opposed by the Jewish Left while his bishop was unable to say in public that Jews need to convert into the Church for salvation.Robert Sungenis’ bishop of Bishop Kevin Rhoades who is now the bishop of Fort Wayne-South Bend, USA where the owner of Real Catholic TV.com lives. He is Marc Brammar who has written to the bishop and received no reply.Wikipedia and other hit media have reported that Sungenis had been criticized by the his bishop, Kevin Rhoades and was asked to remove the name Catholic.Michael Vorris has indicated that the pressure on the Archdiocese of Detroit has come also from outside the diocese. He seemed to be indicating the same non Catholic opponents of SungenisThey would also oppose knowing about errors in the Catechism.Tuesday, January 10, 2012ERRORS IN THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: OUTSIDE THE CHURCH NO SALVATION The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) under the sub heading outside the church there is no salvation mentions invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire as exceptions. They are not defacto exceptions.Vatican Council II also mentions invincible ignorance (LG 16) but nowhere implies that it is an exception to the dogma or the ordinary means of salvation.The Catechism instead implies that those who are saved in invincible ignorance are visible and known to us, so the baptism of water is needed by only those who know about Jesus and the Church.The text of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus states that everyone needs to enter the Church. The text of the dogma defined three times is not included in the Catechism.This is all mislading.To imply that the baptism of desire is a defacto exception to the dogma is heresy. It is indifferentism when one says non Catholics can be defacto saved in their religion and we know who these cases are. This teaching is not part of the Deposit of the Faith. It is irrational and a repititon of the Richard Cushing Error.Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in preparing the Catechism did not violate the Principle of Non Contradiction. Since defactro every one needs to enter the Church for salvation (Cantate Domino, Council of Florence) and dejure, in principle, in theory and known only to God a person can be saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire.Placing invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire under the subheading Outside the Church NO Salvation however implies that they are relevant to the dogma or defacto exceptions.For the Catechism to say that the baptism of water is needed for only those who know about Jesus and the Church could imply that those saved in invincible ignorance are defacto known to us in the present time. It implies that we know these particular cases and so we cannot say that everyone on earth with no exception needs Catholic Faith and the baptism of desire for salvation: to avoid the fires of Hell.Also to suggest that only those who ‘know’ need the baptism of water for salvation would imply that Fr. Leonard Feeney was excommunicated not for disobedience but for heresy. It would also imply that the excommunication was wrongly lifted by the Catholic Church without the priest having to recant or make changes in his writing. It also implies that the popes, saints and Fr. Leonard Feeney were wrong in saying everyone needs to be an explicit member of the Church for salvation. It would also be a contradiction of three Councils which defined the dogma in an extra ordinary mode. The ‘dogma’ is referred to in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 as the ‘infallible statement’.For a priest to knowingly say that there are defacto exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus is a first class heresy and a mortal sin. He is refuting the Nicene Creed in which we pray, “I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins” and “I believe in the Holy Spirit the Holy Catholic Church”. It was the Holy Spirit which guided the Magisterium of the Church to teach over the centuries that outside the church there is no salvation.A priest, who knowingly continues in this error, even after being informed, is in manifest public heresy and is not to offer Mass without receiving absolution in the Confessional and making public amends; removing the sacrilege. Similarly it would be a sacrilege for a lay person knowingly in this error to receive the Eucharist.-Lionel AndradesERRORS IN THE CATECHISM ? http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/01/errors-in-catechism.htmlPractically everyone needs the baptism of water for salvation while in theory a person can be saved with the baptism of desire – Rector, Church Santa Maria Annunziata, Rome http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/01/practically-everyone-needs-baptism-of.htmlIn the Catechism of the Catholic Church why did Cardial Joseph Ratzinger not mention that the baptism of desire is not a defacto exception to the dogma outside the church no salvation nor to Vatican Council II ? http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/01/in-catechism-of-catholic-church-why-did.htmlETERNAL WORD TELEVISION NETWORK (EWTN) SAYS ‘SUBMISSION TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THE SOVEREIGN PONTIFF IS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION’ http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2012/01/eternal-word-television-network-ewtn.htmlCHURCH TEXT IS CRITICAL OF THE ARCHBISHOP OF BOSTON : REFERS TO IMPLICIT AND NOT EXPLICIT (TO US) BAPTISM OF DESIRE http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/12/church-text-critical-of-archbishop-of.htmlVICARIATE OFFICES FOR YOUTH AND THE SICK ARE TEACHING ERRORS http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/12/vicariate-offices-for-youth-and-sick.htmlYOUTUBE VIDEO QUESTIONS TO ASK THE CATHOLIC CHAPLAIN OR PROFESSOR http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/12/youtube-video-questions-to-ask-catholic.htmlPROFESSION OF FAITH: I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/12/profession-of-faith-i-believe-in-holy.htmlDID THE LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949 CONTRADICT THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS? NO http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/12/did-letter-of-holy-office-1949.htmlROME VICARIATE HIT BY THE RICHARD CUSHING ERROR : Centro Della pastorale sanitaria says the baptism of water is not defacto needed for the salvation of all on earth http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/12/rome-vicariate-hit-by-richard-cushing.htmlBOSTON ARCHDIOCESE WEBSITE SAYS NOSTRA AETATE DISMISSES CHURCH INTEREST IN BAPTIZING JEWS AND AFFIRMS GOD’S COVENANT WITH THEM : NOWHERE DOES VATICAN COUNCIL II MAKE THIS CLAIM http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/12/boston-archdiocese-website-says-nostra.htmlCATHOLIC ANSWERS SUCCUMBS TO THE RICHARD CUSHING ERROR http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/12/catholic-answers-succumbs-to-richard.htmlMSGR.JOSEPH FENTON AND FR. WILLIAM MOST DID NOT NOTICE THE RICHARD CUSHING ERROR http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/12/msgrjoseph-fenton-and-fr-william-most.htmlUSCCB REPORT MAKES ALLOWANCE FOR THE RICHARD CUSHING ERROR http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/12/usccb-report-makes-allowance-for.htmlFR.LEONARD FEENEY AND HIS COMMUNITIES HAVE ACCEPTED THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE PER SE http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/12/frleonard-feeney-and-his-communities.htmlARCHBISHOP OF BOSTON CARDINAL RICHARD CUSHINGS LEGACY: FOLLOWERS INCLUDE USCCB, EWTN, CATHOLIC ANSWERS, SSPX, SEDEVACANTISTS MHFM http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/12/archbishop-of-boston-cardinal-richard.htmlCARDINAL RATZINGER DID NOT VIOLATE THE PRINCIPLE OF NON CONTRADICTION AS CATHOLICS UNITED FOR THE FAITH IMPLYhttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/search/label/Catholics%20United%20for%20the%20FaithFR.TULLIO ROTONDO AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE ON EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUShttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/08/frtullio-rotondo-affirms-cantate-domino.html#linksLEGIONARY OF CHRIST PRIEST FR.RAFAEL PASCUAL AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCEhttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/search/label/Fr.Rafael%20Pascual%20L.CCATHOLIC LAY PROFESSOR AT UNIVERSITA EUROPA DI ROMA AFFIRMS DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUShttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/search/label/Corrado%20Gnerre

    • Lionel Andrades

      Wednesday, January 11, 2012
      It’s a Free Country.. : A Catholic who rejects a defined dogma like outside the church no salvation is automatically excomunicated. He has no right to use the word ‘Catholic’. Could it be that Bishops Allen Vigneron and Kevin Rhoades are under pressure too ? Could they come under leftist hate laws, which are Catholic-specific, if they do not disown Michael Vorris ?I had been writing to many religious in the Diocese of Pennsylvania,Harrisburg where Bishop Rhoades was originally posted.This was during the controversy there. Bishop Rhoades could not say that Jews need to convert into the Church for salvation, is the teaching of the Church. Robert Sungenis called the bishop; his bishop, and also Catholics United for the Faith,Steubenville, ‘heretics’.They still did not affirm the faith and began a campaign against Robert to make him change his views.Now Michael Vorris has affirmed the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and has produced some good videos on the Jews and the subject of the Catholic Church being the continuation of the Jewish religion.Real Catholic TV.com’s financier however lives in the diocese of Bishop Rhoades and could be asked to remove the name ‘Catholic’ .Robert Sungenis has changed the name of his website to the Bellarmine Report and continues th same apostolate.He still says that Jesus, the Catholic Church and the Bible teaches that Jews need to convert.
      He disagrees with the ADL , telling Catholics what to believe, and says Catholics are the Chosen People of God now, the people of the New Covenant (Nostra Aetate,Vatican Council II). Also Vatican Council II,Nostra Aetate does not say that Jews or other non Catholics, do not have to convert into the Catholic Church. This is the propaganda posted on the website of the Boston Archdiocese.It’s unlikely that Bishop Kevin Rhoades would affirm this same teaching in public. So when Wikipedia reports that Robert Sungenis has been corrected by ‘ecclesiastical authority’, so what ? The ecclesiastical authority, in this case, is the local bishop, who is not affirming a defined dogma.
      A Catholic who rejects a defined dogma like outside the church no salvation is automatically excomunicated. He has no right  to use the word ‘Catholic’.According to Canon Law a bishop (juridical person) has to be a Catholic.According to Canon Law a bishop of priest in public mortal sin is not to offer Mass until he has received absolution in the Confessional and removed the scandal with a public clarification.The Canon Lawyers could also comment on this issue of a bishop needing to be a Catholic according to Canon Law.-Lionel AndradesIt’s a Free Country ( Michael Vorris Real CatholicTv.com video )http://youtu.be/9-0aCDYDbnA

  • Lionel Andrades

    Bishop Kevin Rhoades is unable to say that Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation (to avoid Hell). He still maintains vaguely that Jesus is necessary for salvation. So one can believe that invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are the ordinary means of salvation and so Jews do not have to convert into the Catholic Church.They are saved in general through Jesus and the Church is the lie. The ordinary means of salvation is not invincible ignorance etc but Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.(LG 14, AG 7).

    Bishop Rhoades could not even answer something as basic as ‘Are non Catholic religions paths to salvation? ’ (Dominus Iesus 20, CDF, Notification on Fr. Jacques Dupuis S.J).

    Then there is the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, thrice defined. He still cannot affirm it in public and secondly considers those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire as possible exceptions to the dogma. This would mean that the baptism of desire is visible and so an exception to the dogma and that we know of explicit cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance. One could phone or meet them.

    This is the heresy of Cushingism. It was Cardinal Richard Cushing, Archbishop of Boston who said that there was salvation outside the church implying that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are explicitly known to us, for them to be exceptions to the dogma.

    Cushingism is heresy.

    It was Robert Sungenis who accused the bishop of being a heretic, not for the sin of Cushingism, but since he could basically not say that Judaism is not a path to salvation and that Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid Hell.

    In spite of the propaganda Robert Sungenis has not given up his Catholic Faith even though he must have had to pay a price for his faithfulness to Catholic teaching.

    Now the same whip of declaring someone not a Catholic is being applied to Real Catholic TV.com. Accusations are being made against Michael Vorris without naming the charge. The Sungenis case is a precedent which tells us why Michael Vorris is targeted.

    Michael Vorris understands and has produced a video A Free Country http://youtu.be/9-0aCDYDbnA  . Robert Sungenis has placed it on the homepage of his website, The Bellarmine Report (Catholic Apologetics International).
    -Lionel Andrades


CLOSE | X

HIDE | X