A Catholic High School Teaches Catholic Doctrine and Everyone Loses Their Minds…

… This past Friday news broke about a local Catholic high school here in Charlotte, NC. Apparently the students at Charlotte Catholic High School had a bit of a problem with a nun teaching *gasp* Catholic doctrine.

Psst. It’s a Catholic school. Says so right in the name.

From the Catholic News Herald,

CHARLOTTE — An online petition started by a student at Charlotte Catholic High School is questioning the views of a speaker at a recent assembly who spoke on human sexuality. Parents have been invited to a meeting at the school at 7 p.m. Wednesday, April 2.

The petition began after a talk by Sister Jane Dominic Laurel, a Dominican from Nashville, Tenn., and a frequent speaker in the Diocese of Charlotte. She spoke to an all-school assembly March 21 on “Masculinity and Femininity: Difference and Gift,” which explains Catholic teaching about gender using Blessed Pope John Paul II’s Theology of the Body. Sister Jane, who has a doctorate in sacred theology from the Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas in Rome, gave similar talks to youths and parents at St. Mark Church in Huntersville on March 23 and gave a related talk at Charlotte Catholic High School last fall.

Let’s look at the facts.

On one hand you have Sr. Laurel’s talk, which can be viewed here.

Updated 4-1-14 @ 11:12 pm: Another bit to consider is that Sr. Jane Dominic Laurel’s program received a full endorsement from a priest in excellent standing with the diocese and who has an impeccable reputation.

The Rev. Tim Reid, pastor of St. Ann Catholic Church, sent an email lauding the nun, saying “she represented well the Catholic positions on marriage, sex, same-sex attraction and proper gender roles … The Church has already lost too many generations of Catholic schools students to … a very muddled and watered-down faith.”

Compare that to Emma Winter’s petition listing a litany of undocumented, unverifiable grievousness with no written or video proof to back up her accusations.

We [the students] are angry that someone decided they knew better than our Holy Father and invited a speaker who addressed the issue of homosexuality to our school to speak twice in the course of one school year.

And Ms. Winter’s knows better than who, I wonder?

I know this high school. I known a few of its students, alumni and their families. It would do me no good to post about the other ongoing problems this high school faces – and they are many. That’s not the point. The point is that this latest scandal is part of growing trend among Catholic institutions of learning where no one’s, well, learning.

The problem with Catholic education is that it isn’t very Catholic, and when it tries to be, the poorly catechised and ignorant raise a stink and start unfounded petitions.

There’s a counter petition, by the way, that I encourage you all to sign in support of our bishop, Bishop Jugis, Sr. Jane Dominic Laurel, and Fr. Kauth, who invited Sister to speak.

My reactions to situations like this are always the same — don’t agree with Catholic doctrine then don’t attend a Catholic school. It’s not that hard. I can’t think of any other religion where their schools are so viciously attacked and undermined… by members of their own faith, no less.

But that’s not entirely fair. It would be like a doctor telling a sick person he’s too terminal to be admitted to the hospital. Come back when you’re all healthy.

Buh bye, now.

No, that just doesn’t feel right.

I think that with all the wonderful things happening in our diocese (beautiful liturgy, church renovations, orthodox clergy, and a devout bishop) the absolute best place for poor confused kids is a high school that brings to its students the fullness of true Catholic teaching.

So the kids didn’t like what they heard. At least they heard it. And as long as they’re students at Charlotte Catholic they’ll continue to hear it till, God willing, it starts to sink in.

Tomorrow evening the high school is planning a meeting with students and their parents to discuss Sr. Laurel’s presentation. I ask every one reading this right now to pray for that meeting and all those in attendance. Pray that, God willing, all this goodness starts to sink in.

Related: Fr. Z calls it… bullying and intimidation tactics.

About Katrina Fernandez

Mackerel Snapping Papist

  • Laura Lowder

    Brava! I would love to hear what some of those other problems are, but I have a general idea. I called the school yesterday to express my support for Fr. Kauth and the continuation of solid Catholic moral teaching at the school. The secretary, or whoever she was who answered the telephone, was shocked. She thought maybe I hadn’t read the speech or something. Obviously she is on the side of the parents protesting having their kids taught honest theology.

    I’ve emailed the headmaster to explain how basic empirical evidence demonstrates that what Sister taught those kids was spot-on right. Not that I expect him to pay any attention, mind you… But they can’t ever again say no one told them, can they?

    • AugustineThomas

      God bless you. I imagine the Lord will reward those who defend the truth even when it isn’t popular!

  • echarles1

    I was a pretty conservative teen (Ronald Reagan was my hero) but I don’t think I would have been receptive to Sr. Laurel’s talk when I was 16 or 17. The kids who created the counter petition are ahead of my younger self. I did not catch up even at 30 but came to my Catholic senses in my forties. The thing that really disappoints me is the “need” for the first petition just because the speaker rocked them a little. Their civics is worse than their catechesis.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      I think some of the comments below prove the “civility” coming out of CCHS.

      • echarles1

        Teenage incivility is a well known cure for writer’s block, but side effects include high blood pressure and head hitting desk disorder. Take with alcohol but in small doses.

  • http://rosarynovice.stblogs.com/ Augustine

    Why is anyone shocked at the reaction of the parents and students? Aren’t Catholic schools merely private schools for rich pagans subsidized by poor Catholics?

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      Discount private schools, I call em. Personally, I think non-Catholics should be denied admittance, period. But that won’t solve the problem. Catholics can be just as ignorant on Church teaching as the rest of the uncivilized world.

    • Dominicus

      This is my experience precisely.

    • Saddend

      Dear Augustine, apparently, you don’t know exactly how the whole “tuition thing” & subsidy works at a Catholic school.

  • BTP

    How dare you expose my child to viewpoints not already his own! Even worse, viewpoints at odds with the prevailing zeitgeist!

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      The gall!

  • Anonymus

    First of all you have no idea what you are talking about. You were not at the meeting. Unless you were there you have no room to talk. Sister Jane went past the teachings of the catholic church and went on to criticize people who live in divorced homes or people who have no father figure. I am a student at charlotte catholic and I value my education. It is one of the best schools in the area. If you were to actually read the entire petition number 10 is the best point on there. You talk about emma not having proof for her accusations well you have no proof for your accusations at emma or anybody that goes to the school.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      Provide the documentation Sr. Jane Dominic Laurel actually taught something contrary to Church teaching and then we can talk. Just because you didn’t understand what she said or agree with it doesn’t make it incorrect.

      • Anonymus

        I understood what she said perfectly. Emma had the guts to stand up for something she believes in and she should not be persecuted for that. You also have no room to talk about a charlotte catholic education. You do not go their nor do you have kids that go their.

        • Laura Lowder

          One can believe in any number of things based on sentimentality and a poorly formed belief system. Emma’s passion is not being called into question: her — and your — understanding of the nature of the issues is.

        • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

          Emma needs a catechism lesson.

          • Laura Lowder

            I think she got one…. she just didn’t understand or approve of the lesson.

        • Stephanie Richer

          Hey, Anonymous Butthurt Student – someone being criticized is not the same as being “persecuted.” Christians in Syria are persecuted, usually by means of martyrdom. Winter is being called out for something she posted in a public forum. Know the difference.

        • Steve T.

          “You do not go their nor do you have kids that go their.”

          Right. We’re supposed to believe that this school is one of the best schools in the area. If a student that goes THERE is capable of making such a third-grade mistake, that area is hosed.

          Moreover, Anonymous Statement Student, you assert that “unless you were there you have no room to talk” which I suppose means that if someone was not actually present at the meeting, they have no right to speak THEIR opinion about what occurred there, even if they have viewed the video of the meeting. If we treat that assertion as true (which is ludicrous, given that I’m sure Anonymous Statement Student here has plentiful opinions about a plethora of things that they haven’t witnessed personally), then anyone who supports Emma’s petition who wasn’t there has “no room to talk.”

          THERE is some elementary logic for you, Anonymous Statement Student. Perhaps you might suggest to the administrators of one of the best schools in the area that they might add Logic 101 to THEIR curricula. As well as Remedial Grammar.

          • LNBE

            “Anonymous Statement Student” — ha, I see what you did there.

    • Laura Lowder

      Interesting. You don’t even provide concrete evidence of your accusation (and Kat posts the link to the speech), and you can’t even use a name? You have to post as an Anonymous?

      • Anonymus

        She did not give the link to the speech that was said at charlotte catholic. That speech was said at a different time

        • Awkpearl

          Is there a link to the Charlotte talk? I would love to hear it, seriously, all joking aside. It would help to clear the air on a lot of this. Can you post a link, Anonymus?

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            I’d love to hear it as well, since some of the accusations leveled against her are that she made disparaging comments towards single moms and the divorced.

            I’m both and have no qualms with the fact that my living situation in inferior to the traditional family model. It’s an unpleasant truth, but a truth none the less.

          • Laura Lowder

            Same here. And there’s no denying that our kids suffer — both from the divorce and, in some cases, the circumstances that made it the lesser of two evils in the first place. It’s not a personal criticism, it’s just the way things are.

          • Anonymus

            Sorry, there is no video. We are not allowed to use phones in school.

        • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

          The material in the link I provided is the same material that she uses in all her talks. The same one she’s used at other schools here in the Diocese… without previous incident.

          • Anonymus

            Provide the documentation that that is the exact same speech and I will believe you.

          • Anonymus

            Then we can talk.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Fr. Timothy Reid, parochial vicar at St. Ann’s, said in an interview that the material is the in fact the same she used at St. Mark’s.

            BOOM.

          • anonymus

            Where is the documentation. That is a person. People lie all the time.

            BOOM.

          • Awkpearl

            Now, all the priests and nuns are liars. Guess I should have seen THAT one coming.

          • Anonymus

            I never said that. All I said was that there is no way to tell whether or not the person was telling the truth. I never directly said the priest lied. You inferred that.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Because you implied it. And yet we are now suddenly supposed to take the word of reactionary teenagers over the word of our Bishops and priests.

            Look, I know you’re upset and I truly believe you think you heard what you did… but I think in everyone’s outrage Sr. Laurel’s words were misconstrued.

          • Anonymus

            You talk like you were there.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Do you hear yourself? You just called a priest a liar. Is that the religious ed they teach at Charlotte Catholic now?

            “The Rev. Tim Reid, pastor of St. Ann Catholic Church, sent an email lauding the nun, saying “she represented well the Catholic positions on marriage, sex, same-sex attraction and proper gender roles … The Church has already lost too many generations of Catholic schools students to … a very muddled and watered-down faith.”

            Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/03/27/4799363/charlotte-catholic-high-calls.html#.Uzt5CfldWao#storylink=cpy

            So who am I to ask my readership to believe… a priest in excellent standing with the Church who has an impeccable reputation or an anonymous troll and a whiny petition writing teenager.

            Now provide YOUR damning proof.

          • Anonymus

            for the record the above anonymous that said Father Reid was a liar was not me…. i just said he was not at the talk the person above is someone different

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            My apologies. It’s hard to keep track when everyone is posting as “anonymus”.

            Strange, you both spelled anonymous incorrectly in the same manner. So you understand my confusion.

            Either someone is not being forthright or grammar and spelling are not on the curriculum.

          • Maggie Goff

            You are using the moniker Anonymus. The person above that said Father Reid was a liar is using the moniker Anonymus. I don’t think there are TWO people on here who would misspell Anonymo u s for his/her moniker, do you? That leads me to believe that you are misspeaking here. Wouldn’t you agree?

          • Katrina is a idiot

            Hahahaha funny that you infer that a priest can’t lie and there is a lot of them accused of child rape, but good one hahahaha

          • Awkpearl

            Looks like “anonymus” got themselves a moniker. LOL. But, the grammar is still missing….

          • margaret1910

            Actually, I am impressed that it took over 120 comments before someone brought up the sexual abuse scandal. This may be a record.

            Free advice. If you call someone an idiot in your moniker, you should not then demonstrate that you do not know the definition of “infer” and are incapable of punctuation. Because this makes YOU look like an idiot.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            I was impressed too. That usually happens by comment 2 or 3.

          • Guest

            The Catholic version of Godwin’s Law: As a controversial thread on a post by or about Catholics grows longer, the probability of someone referring to the predator-priest scandals increases until it equals 1.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            A many more falsely accused.

            And congrats for being the first commentor to use priest rape as a straw man. You, Great Debater that you are, win the Godwin’s Law prize for Catholic commenting. And bonus points for the super clever moniker.

            You’re a winner.

          • Laura Lowder

            Boy, you’re really full of yourself, aren’t you? accusing a priest of lying. You won’t accept Kat’s link, and you won’t accept the word of a priest of the Dioc. of Charlotte that the talk is one Sister has given in his parish… but you want us to believe a high school student’s word without even an equal amount of concrete evidence to back her up?

          • Anonymus

            You believe a priest who wasn’t there over a bunch of people who were. Wow.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Lemme think about this… Hmmm… who to believe, priest in good standing or sentimental over indulged teenagers who can’t even spell “anonymous” correctly. .

          • Anonymus

            so let me rephrase this. You believe someone who wasn’t there over multiple witnesses.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Yes. Because these witness cannot provide a shred of evidence.

          • Anonymus

            And the priest can provide evidence?

          • Mitch

            Well, having read this, you are not speaking to the issue of Catholic teaching, and are essentially telling me that you are not conversant with a basic, catechism based understanding of the faith. In short–you are angry that someone with much greater understanding than you posses told you you can’t do whatever you want . In my OPINION–and it’s only an OPINION, your Father need to spank you severely and ground you for the next six months. Of course, you ont like that either.

          • Laura Lowder

            Look. Here’s what I’ve got: a nun with a DOCTORATE comes and gives a talk that was not popularly received with 100% of the student body or faculty. Said disapprovers are so indignant and outraged at comments that they didn’t like that now they are on a rampage and a mission to have said Ph.D. — who knows a helluva lot more than said teenagers and faculty — castigated and even lynched.

            The quote offered in the Charlotte paper, of Pope Francis, was a complete misquote of what the Holy Father said, and it’s lifted completely out of context of the whole of his teaching ministry. You do realize that Pope Francis is on record stating, in compliance with the Magisterium, that homosexuality is gravely disordered and that gay marriage is a diabolical agenda?

            Because the Charlotte Observer item sure does make it look as if Emma, and the rest of the dissenters, are all in a stew over what is, in fact, true: Homosexuality is intrinsically disordered (it’s also misogynist — want to discuss that? or can you get the fact that guys rejecting girls as lovers and comrades and life companions is based upon a deep-rooted misogyny?) and gay marriage is a diabolical issue.

          • Anonymus

            It is not misogynist. There are plenty of females that are homosexual.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            head desk.

          • Awkpearl

            With a large side of face palm.

          • Laura Lowder

            Yep. And lesbianism is a rejection of the authentic feminine identity, which makes it misogynist same as male homosexuality.

          • http://rosarynovice.stblogs.com/ Augustine

            Why, of course! It’s the American Cultural Revolution. Those nuns with PhD cannot be trusted!

          • Laura Lowder

            I believe a priest personally known to me, who is in good standing with the Diocese, and who understands and promulgates the Teachings of the Magisterium, over the judgment of a bunch of people who lack the training, the attention, the comprehension, or the give-a-damn to understand what they’re objecting to.

          • Anonymus

            But you admit that you believe someone who wasn’t there and who doesn’t have any evidence to support his claim.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            You’ve provided no evidence otherwise. And your talking in circles.

          • Anonymus

            You have been doing the exact same thing honey.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            The difference, my little poodle, is I have provided documentation, citations, links, street cred and the likes. You have not.

          • Stephanie Richer

            Stop insulting poodles. They are actually very smart dogs.

          • tj.nelson

            Hey! I’m poodle and the only one allowed to call people that.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            mea cupla, Smooches.

          • Laura Lowder

            You got a problem with my preferring the word of someone with integrity, proven integrity, over people who are misrepresenting both what they heard and WHY they oppose it and consequently, patently, don’t have a clue what they’re talking about?

          • Stephanie Richer

            And we’re supposed to believe you? There is no evidence that you were there, you’re too chickenshit to put your real name, and you’re too lazy to even correct “Anonymus” after the misspelling has been pointed out to you. You could be a student, or you could be a parent, but one thing is for certain: you’re a troll.

          • LNBE

            Oh, I believe you think you heard her say what Emma Winters’ “petition” states. However, given that we know the content of Sister’s talks, and given that we have mountains of evidence of the poor logic, debating, spelling, and grammar skills of this high school, all evidence points to everyone who isn’t in high school comprehending precisely what Sister said and what she meant, while said high school students have fixated on something she did not say and used it to fan the flames of their own butthurt.

          • http://rosarynovice.stblogs.com/ Augustine

            Please, provide information that Fr. Reid lied. You know, the burden of proof lies with the accuser and the accused is presumed innocent.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            They can not.

          • Anonymus

            Well honey I hate to tell you this but Fr. Timothy Reid was not at the talk so BOOM!

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Again… because reading comprehension is not your strong point…

            “who am I to ask my readership to believe… a priest in excellent standing with the Church who has an impeccable reputation or an anonymous troll and a whiny petition writing teenager.”

            And we are still waiting for documentation that Sister actually taught a thing contrary to Catholic teaching, which you have failed to provide. Go to bed, dear, it’s past your bedtime.

          • Anonymus

            We are still waiting for documentation stating that what she said in the video was the same thing that she said at cchs.

          • Anonymus

            Their is no video because she would not let us take one… probably because what she said was terrible… Emma is not whiny she is standing up for something she believes in! That takes a lot of courage. Maybe your kids have a bedtime but I am free to do whatever the hell I want

          • Awkpearl

            Wait, wait, wait…hold your horses there! Can you prove to me that Fr. Reid was, in fact, NOT at the talk? As you yourself said, people lie. How do I know you are telling me the truth that he wasn’t there? The article Katrina linked to above implies that he heard the talk. Why am I constrained to believe you?

          • anonymus

            he was not at the talk at catholic

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Well, there ya go, Awkpearl. If anonymus [sic] says it’s so.

            Face palm indeed

          • Awkpearl

            LOLs!! I could lose all credibility here and say this is precisely why I home school my kids!!

            Oh, no!! I see an arrow to the knee coming right at me!!

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Homeschooling hippy! Get off my lawn!

          • Awkpearl

            I’m not on your lawn. I’m probably in your living room! Hee-hee….

          • anonymus

            why are you so rude.. and frankly right now I tried to handle this in a mature way and you are the one who is being very immature for your age

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            As a mother, I do not tolerate disrespectful youth well. As a Catholic, this situation breaks my heart bc you kids are supposed to the future of the Church.

          • Awkpearl

            P.S. I don’t think “Anonymus” is misspelled. These young people are studying at a Catholic school so they must know their Latin. I think the “mus” ending in Latin denotes the plural. Therefore, in Latin, “Anonymus” must mean “a large group of persons who do not want to be held accountable for anything they say.” ;-)

          • Stephanie Richer

            Sort of like “We are Legion” only stupidly so, eh?

          • Angela

            Fr. Reid is the pastor at St. Ann’s. There was nothing wrong with Sisters talk. I heard this very talk in September and took my 8th grader.

          • anonymus

            She used the same topic however she did not say the same things in the video

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Provide video or stop commenting.

          • Laura Lowder

            Hey — I’m a former high school teacher. You believe that “we’re not allowed…” thing actually keeps people from having and using…? LOL (that’s a real laugh, btw, not a sarcastic one.)

          • anonymus

            Yeah, we could have definitely taken our phones out during the speech with multiple teachers watching to take a video.

          • Awkpearl

            Sometimes breaking the law is the only way to protect the innocent.

          • Laura Lowder

            It happens in public schools all the time.

        • Harold Benghazi Koenig

          I think what anonymus#1 or #2 could provide would be, to te best of their recollection EXACTLY what was said that contradicts the Magisterium, together with the specific propositions that are contradicted.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Notice they have not replied to you. Because they cannot provide what you ask. I seriously doubt they know a thing about the Magisterium.

            So for all we’ve gotten in reply amounts to nothing more…

            Nah ah, prove it. She said so. And your [sic] being so mean and unfair. With a whole lot of WAAAAAAAAAAAh, my feelings. .

          • Harold Benghazi Koenig

            So they have been taught. Outrage and wounded passions trump reason.

          • Laura Lowder

            Yeah, and you’ll have noticed that in more recent comments, Fr. Kauth is being berated because of personality issues, yes?

          • Harold Benghazi Koenig

            So, we’ve reached the “You’re a doody-head!””No, YOU are!” level of dialectical sophistication, have we? The one whose feelings get hurt first wins — and can be as nasty as s/he wants.

            Quick! Somebody find me a hermitage!

        • Susan Peterson

          I think she has a basic outline she uses and the speech linked to is an example of a typical speech. She may phrase things a bit differently each time she speaks. She should probably have herself recorded each time by her own people for hr own protection. I would guess that she said that single parent families are not ideal and that divorce is not a good thing, and people took this as personal criticism.

          • margaret1910

            That is more or less what I think, too. She may even have said that divorce damages children. I suspect that many teenagers and not a few adults, would see this as a “personal attack”.

      • Anonymus

        okay well basically then KAT she said that your kids are going to be weak and affected because of your situation so you should be offended on your kids behalf

        • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

          No. Because I do not teach my son victimology.

          • anonymus

            Neither does my mom but that did not matter to the nun

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            That’s funny, ’cause sweety, you learned it from somewhere. You’re playing the perfect one right now.

        • Laura Lowder

          Do you really, REALLY want to hear my story? Because I’ll tell you if you’re sure you’re grown up enough to hear it.

          • Anonymus

            Go for it

          • Awkpearl

            I’m so sorry, Guest. You will be in my prayers today.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Above comment deleted by poster’s request.

        • margaret1910

          Why do you have a problem with the statement that divorce has serious consequences for the children? Sounds like an objectively true statement to me. Isn’t that Catholicism 101?

    • Laura Lowder

      Were YOU at the talk?

      I’m sorry — you’re posting as an “anonymUs” poster — there’s no way to verify who you are, whether you’re really a student at CCHS or even a teenager. It’s really, REALLY hard to take Anons completely seriously. Either you’re willing to stick your neck out, or you’re not.

      Evidently you aren’t? No REAL courage of your convictions, and all that?

      From the Other Petition (the one supporting Sister) came this observation, which, unlike your comments here, was actually SIGNED:

      If I had not attended the talk and just read Emma Winter’s petition I probably would have signed it. However, I was there and the things the petition is claiming Sister said are just plain wrong. The people who are responsible for the petition and signed it after having attended the talk are extremely closed minded. They went into the talk looking for a reason to be offended and horribly misquoted Sister Dominic to be able to justify the “offense” they took.

    • Romulus

      Nameless Mouse, does the phrase “burden of proof” mean anything to you? You threw the first accusation on this thread, so — what you got? Put up or shut up.

  • Anonymus

    You are a grown woman attacking a teenage girl. You should have never posted that on here. The church teaches you that God loves everyone regardless if you are homosexual or not.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      A teenage girl who has no respect for Church authority.

      • kag1982

        Apparently the priest in question has been disrespectful to the children. One of the allegations is that he was rude and dismissive toward the children after the speech. The man definitely doesn’t seem like a priest who “smells like his sheep.”

        • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

          Which priest, Fr. Kauth or Fr. Ried, because my son serves for them both and they have been nothing but kind and consoling to him… and *gasp* compassionate to our single family, divorced household.

          • kag1982

            It appears that Father Kauth was the issue. Apparently, he was dismissive toward at least one student upset about the speech. I don’t think that the other priest is involved with the school directly. Frankly, this is the argument of a neo-traditionalist priest who was a bad fit for the more mainstream Catholic school. It wouldn’t shock me if there were more arguments between the priest and the parents than just this one speech.

            And I’m not the biggest fan of teens, but I also think that the chaplain of a Catholic high school should be. If you are the chaplain at a high school, I’d think that one of your job descriptions is to show compassion toward teens and not treat them in a dismissive manner.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            So a lynch mob is being orchestrated against a fantastic, devout priest by parents and students because he isn’t nice nice with the feels?

            Seriously?

          • Laura Lowder

            You know what? If some of these kids’ parents had been tough on their kids instead of overindulgent, if they’d stopped their kids in their tracks the minute they started behaving like sanctimonious little know-it-alls, we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation now.

          • kag1982

            Teens are sanctimonious know-it-alls as a rule. That goes with the territory and the hormones and the sense of invincibility. Most grow out of it.

          • Laura Lowder

            Sure — and a responsible parent will put them back in their place in a skinny minute, not indulge them as these kids seem to be allowed.

    • Laura Lowder

      Where’s the attack? Are you the same “Anonymous” who posted, above? Are you a teenager attacking a grown woman? Did your parents not teach you to respect your elders?

      And where’s the attack? Telling a teenager, “Provide your concrete evidence and we’ll talk” is hardly an attack.

      See, the problems with folks, who don’t like what Kat, or Sister, are saying, are:
      1) You think you know more than anyone else because you read a quote in the mainstream news, that the Pope said something you think cancels out everything the Church has said, before — and that the Pope has said, before, too — and that was a misquote anyway.
      2) You think you win points by accusing people of attacking someone else, by calling them “unloving.” You actually lose points that way.
      3) You don’t know the meaning of the word “love.” You’re confusing it with a sentimental, mindless enthusiasm for anything everyone wants to do — regardless how dangerous it is to their body, mind, or soul — so long as that behavior or ideology is NOT CHRISTIAN.
      4) You don’t know Christian theology, either.

      So tell Kat and the rest of us just what, in Sister’s speech, you THINK violates or exceeds Church teaching. And we will converse on the issue.
      Otherwise you’re just behaving like an overprivileged brat who thinks you deserve special treatment and pampering as a “kid” but have the right to get in other people’s faces as if you were an adult. You can’t have it both ways. Decide whether you’re a kid or an adult, and behave yourself accordingly.

      Quit whining And quit lying — to yourself, first of all.

      • Awkpearl

        This has to be the same person, because neither one knows how to spell anonymous.

      • kag1982

        What the kids objected to was outlined in the first eight bullet points of the first petition. I think that if they are true, the kids have a legitimate complaint. And I tend to think that the kids’ version of events is the truthful one.

        • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

          I think the children sincerely believe that is what they think they heard, through their flawed understanding of the topics.

        • Laura Lowder

          If you’ll look at my comment, above, I have a quote from another student at CCHS who said the opposite:
          “If I had not attended the talk and just read Emma Winter’s petition I probably would have signed it. However, I was there and the things the petition is claiming Sister said are just plain wrong. The people who are responsible for the petition and signed it after having attended the talk are extremely closed minded. They went into the talk looking for a reason to be offended and horribly misquoted Sister Dominic to be able to justify the “offense” they took.”

          THIS student, in direct contrast toward our little “participants,” here, had the guts and the moral fortitude to sign his name to his comment, on the petition page in support of Sister, the Bishop, and Fr. Kauth.
          THAT speaks volumes, too, doesn’t it? — I’m not posting his name here because I don’t have permission to, but you can go to the supportive petition and find this comment on that page.

          • kag1982

            As did Emma, who started the first petition. I’ve also seen many of the moms and other students post their concerns with their own names as well. And even the let’s support the chaplain and the nun petition seems to infer that she did say the things including the pornography remark and the single parents’ remark. I quote from the supporting petition: “The absence of a parent in the home makes for a greater risk for homosexuality.” That infers that homosexuality is linked to single parents or divorce. Do you really think that having a single mom increases your chances of being gay?

            And I also don’t think that adult women should get into sarcastic screaming matches with sixteen year olds online and then post their indignation toward the kids. I looked through the post string and I really couldn’t see who exactly was the child. Perhaps if you want to be disdainful toward teens, try not to sink to their level of name calling.

          • LNBE

            Infer/Imply are different words.

            Sister spoke with nuance, and did not say anything new.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_and_sexual_orientation#Family_influences

          • LNBE
          • Laura Lowder

            Actually, a family situation has forced me to learn more about this issue than any sane non-clinician ought to have to be burdened with.

            The sad reality is that kids who grow up without a strong father figure (even a bad one) are more at risk of being swayed by the attentions of sexual predators who will provide the attention they’re craving, and some sort of “affirmation.” It doesn’t have to be healthy attention; in fact, the gay community has an entire lexicon of euphemisms for their victimization by sexual predators, because they are not able to recognize that what happened to them was abuse. “Awakening” is one of the more common terms used, there are many.

            So it sounds to me as if Sister actually lifted the ugly rock of the gay subculture and told the kids some of the nicer things that were crawling around under there. And the gay community really resents having that rock lifted and their secrets exposed.

          • kag1982

            This really is the issue. We cannot even have a civilized debate because we don’t even see the world the same way.

            I do agree with you that children in bad family situations are more vulnerable for predators. I don’t agree with you that gay men troll around looking to convert vulnerable boys to the gay lifestyle. Most gays aren’t pedophiles and homosexuality is a genetic trait. No one can be turned.

            I also don’t think that Sister Jane knows many gay people and has much insight into the gay community. The gay community isn’t any more promiscuous than the straight community. They are no weirder or more screwed up than the straight community. Saying so is a falsehood.

          • Laura Lowder

            I hope I didn’t give the impression that I think all gays are predators. I certainly don’t! — however if you have one predator in a community then the damage that one can do is enormous, and the risk must be faced squarely and dealt with.

            And there is no genetic link to homosexuality. That was answered a couple years ago. Why the myth is still floating around, I have no idea. The overwhelming evidence – which the gay community works hard to suppress – is that imprinting or sexualization is the principle component in gays’ psych. histories. I’ve been hearing this from mental health professionals, now, for going on thirty years: “The gay community adamantly denies this is a factor, but I’ve never seen a gay in my practice who hasn’t had this as part of his history.” I’m talking a couple dozen interviews.

            Also, I don’t know where you’re getting your information, but gay men are NOTORIOUS for promiscuity. Gay men in the lifestyle are rarely monogomous; more common is rampant promiscuity. Some gay men boast thousands of partners over a life span. I HOPE that’s extreme, but there’s solid evidence that partners in the hundreds is not uncommon. And that’s extreme, too. But promiscuity in the gay community tends to involve significantly higher numbers than promiscuity in the straight population.

            You can say that’s no weirder or more screwed up… but It sure isn’t the same kind of weird or screwed up we see among straights.

          • kag1982

            Why do you hate gay people?

    • Awkpearl

      I would LOVE to see the video where Sr. Jane Dominic says that God doesn’t love homosexuals! Anonymus, did you really see and hear sister say that!? Lordy, you “love, love, love” people really spew the hate, don’t you?

    • Stephanie Richer

      Too late for that bid, Anonymus. You cannot come onto a forum, raise a stink, and then accuse people of beating up a minor. In fact, there is no proof you even are one.

    • Stephanie Richer

      And, God does love everyone. Even pedophiles. But His love is not license to do whatever you feel like. Do you think God, through the Church that He established, made up rules against certain behavior just for kicks? No, the Church’s teachings are there not to prevent you from having fun but to protect you from harm. Real harm. And in all of it, you still have your free will. So you ca reject Sister’s speech, but how dare you try to silence her because in doing so, you are thwarting the free will for someone else to listen to her and make up their mind. You want every student in that school to only hear what kids like you and Emma want to hear. I can only imagine what you would be saying to the student who heard Sister’s talk and found it valid – or would that student even feel safe speaking up for Church teachings lest they get bullied by students like you and Emma?

      • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

        EXCELLENT point. A new generation of leftist bullies.

      • Laura Lowder

        Let’s take this a step further:

        It’s to protect us from harm, yes, And very serious harm. Homosexuals are prey to a variety of infections and diseases (well beyond AIDS) that the rest of us have never even heard of. That’s just the physical dimension, too.

        BUT it’s also to guide our lives in such a way that allow us to reflect the holiness and integrity of God.

        In Leviticus, so many times a section of Law is prefaced, “I am the Lord your God…” — and it’s as if God is saying, “Don’t be like these other peoples. They follow after other gods and their lives reflect that they have rejected me. Live this way, MY way, and reflect My Glory!”

        Homosexuality — no, let’s call it by its ancient name: sodomy — was part and parcel of pagan civilization. All sorts of sexual depravity were. But the Judeo-Christian paradigm turns all that upside down and demands sex be restricted to heterosexual monogamy. The ramifications of that change are IMMENSE — they marked the change in the whole of Western civilization. There have been deviants, but the RULE has been a radical force for good throughout Christendom.

      • Why?

        Father Kauth may be in good standing with the Diocese but he has demonstrated again and again an incredible intolerance for any one who dares to question doctrine. Rather that reasonalby explain why doctrines are Catholic teachings and the message behind them to young people he lashes out at the questioner and demeans their character. He has openly expressed his disdain for the Holy Father and is quite self absorbed and arrogant. Everyone is tired of his constant touting of his vast educational background. His methods do not build consesus but drive away those who dare to ask “Why”?
        Father is an Old Testament Priest in a New Testament world. Consequences verses Forgiveness and a path to salvation.
        With respect to Sisters’ presentation the first half was on target. She stepped over a line in tone, tenor and content with data that is not verifiable and bordered on something I would expect to hear from a white aryan hate group.
        Why do many of us refuse to post our names? Because the hate mail is already reaching the door of those who were foolish enough to believe they can challenge the rollback of Vatican II and those who want a full return to a 19th century Church.

        • margaret1910

          I have read and re-read this comment. I am confused. You use very strong language to describe Fr Kauth. He “lashes out”, he “demeans” he is “self absorbed and arrogant”. I have read what Kat has said of this priest and I am having trouble reconciling these viewpoints.

          The last paragraph is really confusing. Are you saying that people like Fr Kauth want to return us to a 19th century Church? And, you are afraid of him? Because…I have no idea. And what on earth is the “rollback of Vatican II”?

        • Laura Lowder

          the hate messages directed to those who support the priest and stand with the Church are more vitriolic and far outnumber anything you’re complaining about.

          What’s more, you do realize that disagreement is not “hate,” don’t you? If you want to question Church teaching, there’s a respectful means of inquiry, and there’s a contemptuous, know-it-all arrogance. Father isn’t obligated to indulge the latter.

          Also, you do realize that the only criticisms you can find to levy against Father Kauth are of personality conflicts, and not of any real substantive point?

  • Timothy

    Anonymous complaints carry no weight. They immediately get roundfiled to “file 13.”

    As an aside, if you desire to be taken seriously, you should probably learn to spell.

  • Quittin’ time at Tara!

    Oh, the entitled life of the modern teen, stoking her outraged sense of justice from the luxury of her parents’ basement, free of the constraints of bummer ethics, grammar, sense, and rent! Here’s an idea: if you’re tired of the Catholic Church crapping on your utopian dreams, tell mommy and daddy to send you to public school. Then they won’t have to write petitions for you anymore. Everybody wins!

  • john smith

    Anyone who promotes the notion that masturbation causes homosexuality should not have formal contact with school children, much less “teach” them about sexuality. This is an absolute embarrassment to fellow Catholics who know better. It’s also NOT church teaching, as the author would have us believe. I’m appalled.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      I’m the author of this article. Please provide citation where I stated or endorsed the idea that masturbation causes homosexuality or else detract your calumnious statement immediately under pain of unceremonious banishment.

      • Laura Lowder

        I don’t believe that’s in Sister’s talk, either. ahem.

      • Anonymus

        The nun said that masturbation causes homosexuality.

        • Laura Lowder

          Homosexuality? specifically? Or sexual neurosis?

      • kag1982

        That is actually what the sister said in her talk. She also said that divorce and single parent homes lead to homosexuality.

        • margaret1910

          Were you at the talk, kag1982? If so, then perhaps you can give us what you remember of her actual words. It’s always better to quote or try to quote actual words, rather than to summarize with a statement.

          • kag1982

            That is in the petition itself. The first eight points of the petition are points from the nuns talks and I’ve read comments on the Charlotte Observer site and other message boards that confirm it. One of the moms posted a few times here so I guess you can ask her. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jenniferfitz/2014/03/students-angry-at-catholic-school-for-teaching-catholic-faith/

            Sister Jane also said that a woman needs to be married to be fulfilled (which is odd coming from a religious sister) and argued that women were created to be “subservient” to men apparently. She also used the example of an Australian gay couple who abused their child to suggest that gays cannot be good parents and argued that the gays are incapable of monogamy. I wasn’t there, but I’ve heard such insights from gay marriage opponents in the past so it isn’t shocking. I’ll say that yep, she did say these things until someone tells me otherwise.

          • http://theramblingsofacrazyface.wordpress.com/ Leticia Ochoa Adams

            Sisters ARE married, they are married to Christ. Geez, learn your faith.

          • kag1982

            Even if you believe that she was inferring that, then how about single women like myself who just haven’t met the one yet? Or widows who have lost their husband and don’t wish to remarry? Or women who are divorced? Or perhaps lesbians who are living chastely?

            It seems odd to me to say that the only way women can feel “fulfilled” if they are married. I’d like to get married, but I also would like to marry the right man. If I don’t find the right man, then I can be fulfilled as a busy single woman. I’d feel less fulfilled if I rushed into marriage just to be married and ended up with the “wrong one.”

          • Laura Lowder

            How about — you haven’t accused Sister of saying anything incorrect, only personally irritation?

            Look. Marriage is a particular vocation that brings about fulfillment of the feminine nature as no other vocation can do. Some of us do get to be called to be single for Christ, but there are serious deficiencies in our lives because of our singleness. Sister lives in a vowed community; she has some balancing compensations, but the rest of us who are simply single do find our natures warped in some way, we live with imbalances and difficulties that married women don’t have to fight against. For example, I’m currently dealing with a plumbing problem – and having to negotiate these crises has taught me to have a hard edge to my personality that is unnatural and uncomfortable… but totally necessary if I’m going to get necessary work done without being taken financial advantage of, as I was with car repairs during the early days of my single life. This is a practical issue; there are also beautiful and profound theological considerations.

            Women are complementary to men – not subservient, but supportive. A wife’s work in the home is every bit as necessary and valuable and noble as a man’s outside the home – but it IS different. And, frankly, we get to live in the Divine Economy where servanthood is the ideal, far more intimately than our husbands. In a lot of ways, what you’re calling “subservient” is really privileged. It’s only modern culture, dominated by a distortion of the Women’s Rights issues, that tells you that service and receptivity and dependence is “subservience,” and insulting, and degrading.

            As for the problem of gay parents — There’s an article today that critiques the popular gay “research” promoting the normalcy of gay parenting: for poor methodology, for biased funding, for openly lying about the issues and ignoring key questions, etc. You should read it:
            http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/25/all-the-gay-parenting-studies-are-flawed/#ixzz2xkHOmmZy

            So, it appears that Sister was/is telling the truth — it’s just a truth people resent hearing, don’t want to acknowledge.

        • margaret1910

          I now gather from your other comments on this thread that you were, in fact, NOT there. So when you say that “That is actually what the sister said in her talk…” you are a liar. Someone else said that the sister said these things. Other people say that she did not. As you were not there, you do not know.

        • Laura Lowder

          Sadly, strong research does indicate that the absence of a strong male/father in the home does lead to an increase in all sorts of issues, one of which is an increase in homosexuality. Boys who grow up without strong healthy male affirmation are far more at risk of giving in to sexual predators than boys who have good relationships with their fathers.

          • kag1982

            No it really doesn’t. It is a genetic variation similar to being left handed. And being attacked by a sexual predator doesn’t make someone gay.

          • LNBE
          • Laura Lowder

            No – absolutely NO evidence exists for that biological link. None. In fact, the genetic link has been exhausted and disproved.

            And you might spend the next thirty years talking with mental health professionals and find out what % of their gay clients have that as part of their history.

          • Maggie Goff

            The majority of sexual predators don’t “attack.” They seduce.

          • kag1982

            Yeah.. I don’t think that gay guys troll for vulnerable youth to turn them gay on order go fulfill their diabolic agenda… BTW? What is this agenda? Great fashion? Fabulous parties? Does Tim Gunn get to be my special godfather?

          • Laura Lowder

            Um… you don’t read much, do you? Look, this is as ancient as human civilizations. Plato writes of homosexuality quite candidly — and his use of boys as examples of the ideal of beauty is pretty commonly known. The gay relationship dynamic is not established by maculine/feminine, as in heterosexual relationships, but as what they call the dominant/passive split. The guy doing the penetrating has the status; the guy being penetrate is without status, or even regarded with contempt. And that, right there, explains a LOT of the motivation for using boys for sex. It’s easier to be in the status position when you use more vulnerable and defenseless partners.

          • kag1982

            Yeah. I took a class on the Greek and Roman version of women in college. The Greek version of sexuality was that sex was okay with anyone that wasn’t a full Greek citizen. So sex was okay with women, slaves, and boys. Sex wasn’t okay between full Athenian males because one full citizen couldn’t be the passive. Most men who had sexual relationships with boys considered themselves heterosexual. That was just the way things were done. Creepy, but let’s not argue that this is the modern idea of homosexuality. I have gay friends and they have no desire to deal with snotty teens.

          • Maggie Goff

            Did you read what I said? I cannot fathom how you came to the conclusions that you did.

  • lucy bullsor

    Can you please just take this article down it would create less problems for everyone

    • Maggie Goff

      It should be fewer problems, not less problems.

      http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/less-versus-fewer

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      I appreciate your concern, but no. I cannot honor a request that does not elaborate why you want it down and to whom it will create fewer problems for.

      • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

        I did not attack her, I simply quoted her own words from her own petition. If anyone is making her look bad it is herself.

        I’m sure she’s a bright impassioned young lady, but she is wrong. If she is feeling the pain from this (caused by her own actions – teaching moment kids, actions have repercussion) then perhaps the thing that needs removing is her petition.

        Also… are you condoning censorship? You said yourself, I have a right to my own opinion. I’m sorry it’s an opinion contrary to yours.

      • Laura Smith

        So you would like Katrina to “be the bigger person” by stepping aside and letting Emma have the only word on this? You do realize that you just said that Katrina has the more correct position on this, that Emma is being immature, and that we should all let her so as not to hurt her feelings by telling her that someone disagrees with her.

        This is not how debates happen. Emma walked into the public sphere with her petition. Katrina engaged her in that public sphere with a blog post that disagrees. If Emma didn’t want criticism of her position, she should not have walked onto the public platform with it.

      • http://www.scottericalt.com Scott Eric Alt

        If Emma is old enough to express her opinion publicly, then she is old enough to be criticized for it publicly and learn to develop a thick skin. If her opinion has merit, let her defend it. But if she can’t defend it, then it’s not up to Katrina to shut up.

      • Awkpearl

        Scott Eric Alt – Ditto.

        Ashley Fisher -

        Also, what did Katrina say that was an attack? If she reacts to a public petition that does not ipso facto make it an attack.

        “If you value the lives of the students…”

        What the heck!! Are there death threats? Is Katrina or others in this conversation causing harm to the lives of the students? This just got very scary!

        • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

          I’m sorry. I can’t help myself. It’s like there’s a meme for everything.

          • Awkpearl

            Is that a meme? It must be! O.o

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Yes. Just a meme.

          • Awkpearl

            Sorry….I know it’s a meme. My typing got ahead of my looking.

            “They’re climbing in your windows! They’re coming in your doors!”

      • KyriaGrace

        First of all, disagreeing with Emma is not “attacking” her.

        Second, Emma did more than give her opinion. She started a petition and spearheaded a campaign against the Sister and against her own school. SHE threw this issue into the public arena. Maybe she should withdraw her divisive petition?

        • kag1982

          You give little sixteen year old girls way too much credit. There is apparently lots of anger in the school toward Father Kauth, who is a “Burke Clone” Latin mass type priest and whose pastoral style doesn’t fit with counseling teens. The talk and the school’s reaction to it is the straw that broke the camel’s back.

          • KyriaGrace

            In what way do I “give little sixteen year old girls way too much credit?” Are you saying that someone other than Emma wrote that petition? Adults perhaps? Some LGBT lobby group? If this petition and campaign are not really about Sr. Jane’s talk, but about Father Kauth, then they are being dishonest about the whole thing.

          • kag1982

            I’m assuming that Emma wrote the petition herself. It seems keeping in line with the language and concerns of a sixteen year old. I’m also suggesting that there is more going on than just a 16-year-old gay rights supporter with a computer. I don’t think that a sixteen-year-old with an online petition on Change has enough know how and clout to stir this controversy. Lots of other students backed up by their parents agree that the talk was inappropriate.

            And the talk was really the straw that broke the camel’s back at this school. I’ve read elsewhere online that Father Kauth is a more conservative type of priest (this is by admirers). Reading between the line it appears that he was recently appointed by the school and is a bad fit for a mainstream Catholic school. Some of the mothers and students mentioned in online posts that they didn’t like his counseling and pastoral style. Apparently, he is the one who petitioned for the speaker and the mandatory assembly. (There was an optional nighttime assembly by the same speaker that was diocese wide in the fall. Perhaps Father Kauth was embarrassed that no one showed up to the event.)

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            I see now… you desire a liberal priest that fits your own beliefs and understanding of the Church. And Fr. Kauth doesn’t fit your narrow ideal. So let’s start a lynch mob.

            Bully bully bully all the way, till you get yours, right?

          • kag1982

            Hey.. I’m not connected to the school but that is what the parents and students would like. And there are more than enough instances of conservatives getting rid of more liberal priests they dislike. I actually have experienced some conservative vs. liberal fights in parishes and schools where the conservatives have acted as bullies and lynch mobs so please spare me the righteous indignation.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            So you are not connected with the school; where do you get your information from?

          • kag1982

            I read online. A few of the moms have posted on different Patheos forums (Jennifer Fitz’s forum over the weekend) as well as the Charlotte news article. I read the comments because when I first saw this article on Twitter, I knew that there had to be more going on than just a nun giving a talk about the Church’s position on marriage. Speakers give talks that Catholic high school students sit through and disagree with all the time. They might even post petitions and whine on Facebook about the topics. However, that whining doesn’t end up in the local news. There is something more going on than just one talk.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Since you have no basis, other than your own assumptions about the situation, I must ask you to stop slandering Fr. Kauth, a man you do not even know.

          • margaret1910

            That’s what I thought. kag1982 (weren’t you known as illinidiva at one time?) is nowhere in the area, has never met Fr Kauth or Sister Dominic, but can somehow magically sense that these people are meanies who hate everybody.

            Give me a break.

          • kag1982

            I’m sorry? But do you know Emma Winters. And yet as an adult women, twice her age, you felt the desire to mock her during Lent, a time when we should preach kindness and love. There is as many stereotypes associated with you mocking her petition as there are with me asserting that Father Kauth, who enjoys the EF Mass, might not be the best fit for the school.

          • margaret1910

            I am not mocking Emma. Kat is not mocking her, either. And, pardon my language, WTF does the EF Mass have to do with this? Seriously, are you just insane?

          • kag1982

            The whole blog post seems devoted to mocking one teen girl in an manner that teen girls might use including graphics. And I think from reading a lot this is a situation where a priest might be posted at a school that was a bad fit.

          • margaret1910

            No..the blog post is devoted to finding out what the sister said, and whether the teenager has a reason to be outraged, or whether she is just being an ordinary, rather silly teenager.

            You, however have tried and convicted Fr Kauth based on what you THINK is his liking of the EF Mass. Yes, Illinidiva, I know..you were hurt by some of these people, which does not equal that all people who like the EF Mass are horrible, terrible, evil, very bad people.

            You are not the Bishop. He actually has the authority to choose what priest gets what assignment. Could he be wrong? Well, duh. of course. But your only reason to say he is wrong is because a bunch of teenagers had their feelings hurt? Or because he might actually like the EF? You are also not in the region, do not know either Emma, Fr Kauf, the Bishop or anyone else. And yet, you pronounce this priest as a bad fit. You don’t know. This is classical projection.

            I don’t know any of these people. I just want to know if there is some reason to freak out..or not. And I am not going to convict Emma because her mom is divorced (NO, I DON’T KNOW IF SHE IS OR NOT) and I am not convicting Fr Kauf because he likes the EF (NO, I DON’T KNOW IF HE DOES OR NOT). and, I.don’t.care. I want to know the truth here, because I am a Catholic who wants to see justice AND mercy.

          • Laura Lowder

            That “something more” couldn’t possibly be a concentrated effort by the Pink Mafia to attack opposition from the Church, could it?

          • kag1982

            The nun has given this talk quite a few times and they pick a specific high school for a concerted attack against the Church? Why wouldn’t gay activists choose a more high profile speech Sister Jane has given?

            I also reject the notion that gays get together in a secret cabal and think of ways to destroy the Church. (Although if they did, the parties would probably be fabulous.)

          • Laura Lowder

            A friend of mine who’s been following this raises the VERY interesting point that the language of the petition too closely mirrors the rhetoric of the gay lobby (I call it a mafia) incited against others they oppose, in other places. I suggest that either Emma was coached, or used… or maybe she’s just bought the rhetoric thinking it’s clever and “enlightened.” But there really is a lot about the petition that begs further investigation rather than mindless support.

          • Laura Lowder

            That’s the tactic, isn’t it? It’s been seen multiple times and places.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            Again, Fr. Kauth is wonderful priest whose transformed his parish, counseled my own son, and desires nothing more than to see to it the next generation of Catholics have a better understanding of their faith.

          • Laura Lowder

            Um… Emma started this ball rolling (probably with outside help and influence) and you want to blame Father because he’s an orthodox priest who sticks with the Magisterium? You do realize that you’re arguing against a superficial personality, here, don’t you?

          • kag1982

            First, I really think that singling out this one girl is unfair. Lots of parents and kids were angry at the speech. Second, I think there are deeper problems probably associated with a conservative priest in a more liberal school.

          • Laura Lowder

            Well, for better or worse, this one girl is the one who started the petition and got the media attention rolling.

            And dollars to donuts the “deeper problems” arose out of the school’s administration’s and Board losing its bearing as a *Catholic* institution.

          • kag1982

            Please. You are giving too much credit to one teen. And people can shockingly be Catholic without expressing hatred for Vatican II and having an utterly narrow view of the world.

          • Laura Lowder

            Who says I hate V2? I LOVE the Council and the documents thereof! — and, again, one teen got this ball rolling. Frankly? I don’t think she did it alone — her rhetoric sounds too familiar. But she stuck her neck out with the petition, her name’s on it, in the news items. So there you go.

          • kag1982

            Yeah.. So do you have “Father” Z’s version of the Council? Something to get rid of or was it a Council that discussed only the importance of Gregorian chant. And yes, grown ups are mocking a sixteen year old kid in a sarcastic manner. If the mammas want to whine at each other than that is fine with me, but please lets not sarcastically mock teen girls. Seriously, this whole post was about an adult divorced mom brutally mocking a teen girl.

      • http://theramblingsofacrazyface.wordpress.com/ Leticia Ochoa Adams

        Apparently Emma is a brave warrior standing up for what she believes in, so she should be able to take the heat from someone telling her that it’s not shocking to hear Church teaching in a Catholic school from a Catholic nun. Maybe this is her first lesson that putting standing up for what you believe in isn’t for the faint of heart.

    • Laura Lowder

      You have GOT to be kidding.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      I want you to take a look at the link I provided to the Charlotte Observer article at the bottom of the post.

      Scroll down to the comments. Read all the hate being spewed at the Church. The violence people are suggesting happen to this nun, a servant of God. And think about who started this scandal. Emma Winters. Her petition. Her words. Her baseless accusations.

      You want me to consider Emma’s feelings. I’m sorry. But Emma and the rest of her cyber bullying ilk have waged an attack on the Church, a nun, their own school, and some very good local clergy.

      And *I* am the one creating problems?

      Last night I just felt sorry for you all. Today, every last one of you make me sick. Sick for our Church’s future and sick from your disgusting display of narcissistic entitlement.

  • Philippa Martyr

    Narcissism – or to use its old-fashioned name, vanity – is no substitute for argument, my dear Emma (and chums).
    If you want to make a public statement on a controversial issue, you had better learn quickly that there will be people out there who don’t agree with you.
    And in this case, I’m afraid they’re right, and you’re wrong. This is something else you will have to get used to. It’s called The Real World.
    It doesn’t matter how Top-Ranking your Catholic school is. What matters is that it’s using the name ‘Catholic’ as its brand.
    I think perhaps you could start a petition to change the school’s name. Then you can have any kind of visiting speaker you want, who will confirm all your prejudices, and no one will ever have to suffer the pain of hearing things they don’t like.

  • alwr

    If you think only Catholic schools are “undermined” in their mission, I invite you to spend a bit of time with any teachers anywhere. We live in a country where school boards and administrators (public or private) consider successful sports teams to be the “face of the school” and place coaching skills over teaching skills when hiring faculty. We have a generation of kids whose parents think cheating is okay (direct quote from a parent in an email once sent to me: “I don’t think you’ve made it clear to them when they are not allowed to cheat on homework and when they are”–answer: Never. They are never allowed to cheat., an answer that did not pacify her) and kids deserve an A grade for coming to school every day. And if you want to see religious arguments in a school, find your local Protestant Christian school which if it is anything like the one I taught in has 54 denominations and 70 churches represented in the student body. Forget arguing over doctrine, no one is getting past the argument over which Bible translation to read from at chapel. –signed former teacher who taught in public, private Christian and Catholic schools.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez
    • tj.nelson

      This is it! This is what I’ve been saying all along. It is all pervasive.

      In my parish there are many well to do families, Catholic education all the way through from kindergarten to post grad. Parents sometimes wear their Catholic U jackets and shirts to Mass. One couple who sit in front of me, very active in Church, also happen to be publicly pro-gay marriage. They are active in the Catholic parents for sexual minorities group. They have 2 sons, both at St. John’s in Collegeville, MN. Mums and dadums have been educated in progressive Catholic moral theology – they send their kids to their alma mater. Progressive views continue to be taught in all the Universities – except for places like Aquinas where Sr. teaches.

      The problem is misguided parenting just as much as it is misguided catechesis.

      • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

        “The problem is misguided parenting just as much as it is misguided catechesis.”

        These parents are actually encouraging their kids to behave like this. It’s appalling.

        • tj.nelson

          Yes – that’s pretty much what I meant..

  • kag1982

    Seriously.. I read through this thread and most of it consisted of adults trading insults with an anonymous CCH student. Don’t you think that getting down to the level of a teenager is an appropriate action in the time of Lent? If you feel the kid is trolling or baiting you, then just ignore him or her.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      Or they can close their browser.

      Children acting disrespectfully shouldn’t be coddled or encouraged.

      • kag1982

        And adults should learn to not get down in the mud with teens. I’m sorry, but you guys sounded exactly the same as the teenage poster last night. I expect more for adult women than I do from 16-year-olds.

  • CCHSparent

    For all of you going back and forth on this topic. The first half of Sr. Jane’s discussion was consistent with the videos she has posted online. The issues began when she went beyond her allotted time and began to provide her own personal color commentary. No one in that room (yes I am an adult and I have spoken with other adults who were there) disputed her discussion of actual Church doctrine. No one can ignore the fact that the Catholic Church has firm opinions on homosexuality and the sanctity of sex within the context of a traditional male-female marriage. The kids nodded in agreement and clearly understood all of that. Later in her speech she made comments such as: 1 in 6 boys would be sexually assaulted by a homosexual, she made reference to a friend who “became” gay after watching pornography with other boys, she said that young men who grow up in a home without a strong male role model are exponentially more likely to “become” gay. These are the types of comments which bothered the students. It had nothing to do with Catholic teaching. Poor Ms. Winters is a 16 year old girl who tried to stand up for what she felt was an assault of misleading and inaccurate data. To the kids in that room, many of whom are from single-parent families or know homosexual individuals, Sr. Jane got personal with them on ideology which was well outside of standard Church doctrine. For the record Fr. Reid is a wonderful man, however he was not present at Sr.Jane’s speech and his message was sent out to a comfortable group of homeschool parents who are not impacted by this situation.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      Thank you for your comment.

      Can I ask you what type of environment Ms. Winter’s has created at her school? Are those who disagree with Emma comfortable enough to be vocal supporters of Sr. Laurel?

      I’m just curious.

      • CCHSparent

        Katrina – Emma is really not the problem. The petition was intended to gain an apology and the request was for her fellow students to sign if they felt the same way. A 16 year old does not expect that a petition would grow legs and move outside the walls of the school. You are a parent, and you know that they don’t always think in terms of cause and effect. So she did not, intentionally, cause the problem at CCHS. She may have provided the spark, but it rapidly grew into a blaze through the actions of others. People can condemn her and she would have to assume some responsibility, however this is a girl who legitimately cares about her school and acted with good intentions. The real puff of air that created the flame was the fact that this assembly was not communicated to the parents, ahead of time. There was a social media assembly just the day before Sr. Jane’s discussion. Several notices were sent via a variety of channels (for 2 weeks) to inform parents of that event. Sr. Jane spoke, back in September, at 2 optional, evening events. One was for parents and daughters, the other for parents and sons. It was poorly attended and as a result Fr. Kauth sent a letter to all parents expressing his disappointment at the turnout. Fr. Kauth is a highly devout man and sometimes his tone and choice of words can be off-putting to others, so his letter was not well-received. The parents feel like he was trying to pull a “fast one” on them by not informing us and making this a mandatory assembly, during school hours. Perception creates the reality for an individual.

        .As a graduate, myself, of CCHS it is a shame that it has come to this. There has been no lasting division within the school. Kids still play on teams with those on each side of this issue; parents are cordial, as always. Now all of that may change following tonight’s meeting, based on the response from the school and the Diocese. We are all in “wait and see” mode and hoping for an amicable, unifying discussion.

        • Lisa Julia

          i have kept quiet about this till now because it just needs to die; for the sake of the school, and for the Sisters who were caught up in this crazy….but i charitably disagree with this statement: “A 16 year old does not expect that a petition would grow legs and move outside the walls of the school. You are a parent, and you know that they don’t always think in terms of cause and effect. So she did not, intentionally, cause the problem at CCHS.”
          16 is well beyond the age of reason, and there’s probably not a 16yo alive who doesn’t know how fast controversy spreads on the internet. People out there with a specific agenda spend lots of time trolling for stories like this….and that’s the problem…this story keeps getting picked up by well-meaning bloggers who may be enjoying the extra ‘hits’, but the whole thing has been nothing but a thorn in the side of the Sisters and those who are unwavering in their support of them.

          • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

            What you call trolling for hits, I can defending the faith.

            I don’t know about other bloggers but I took this on because it’s my diocese and my priests.

            I am hopping mad that a simple indignant teenage girl egged on by her friends has caused so much divisiveness here. I’m flabbergasted that parents have the gall to defend her utter disrespect for church teaching and people in authority.

            Sr. Laurel’s appearance at another school in this diocese has been cancelled as a result. Because of Emma Winter’s and her slander. Now other students outside of CCHS are being robbed of her talks.

            You’re right it needs to stop. By Emma and her friends. Not by, as you put it, well meaning bloggers.

    • http://rosarynovice.stblogs.com/ Augustine

      Yet, I myself have come across these same statistics, which hint that Sr. Jane did not make them up. If a student “feels” that they are incorrect, then she should get to find out the correct ones and charitably challenge Sr. Jane. Alas, she chose to bully her.

      • CCHSparent

        Augustine, I am not going to argue with you. All I will say is that you are correct; and at the same time, depending on where you choose to look for statistics and research data you can find plenty to support either side of this issue which is why it would be pointless to argue.

    • Laura Lowder

      You know what? Nothing you report in this post contradicts either Church teaching OR the summaries of respected professionals — psychiatrists, psychologists, clinical social workers — with whom I’ve talked. There are a growing number of men who’ve left the gay lifestyle who report exactly this same info having had an influence on them, especially the ugly and pervasive impact of pornography. All of them have shared with me the impact of the absence of a strong, healthy relationship with father or a father figure in leaving them vulnerable to the sexualized attentions of gay predators.

      Did Sister Jane “get personal?” Or did she take the kids to a deeper level of understanding that included revealing the dirty underbelly of the homosexual culture? Sounds like the latter. And I have to applaud that.

  • Andrew

    While we are on the subject of interpreting the bible to justify any hate or discrimination for minorities, lets take a look at some other parts of the bible that Katrina Fernandez, along with many other Christians, decides not to follow and back as strongly.
    exodus 21:7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.” So my question about this one is, if your husband sold your daughter tomorrow, would you be fine with it because the bible says it’s alright? Or would you be mad? You would obviously be alright with it and not think it morally wrong one bit because you are so quick to argue over the anti gay part of the bible.
    exodus 35:2 “six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.” Do you watch football with your family on sundays? Have any favorite players, maybe Tim Tebow, he’s a pretty religious guy. Do you think that they should be all put to death for working on a Sunday? And if you don’t think what they do is work, than how about the coaches? Do you think Ron Rivera should be stoned for coaching a game on Sunday? Because if gays shouldn’t be able to marry and will go to hell as the bible says, why not stone all those who work on Sundays like the bible says? Also are you and I morally obligated to kill them or should we get someone to do it?
    Leviticus 11:7 “And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.” Speaking of football, can Notre Dame still play if they wear gloves or are they all “unclean”?
    Leviticu s 11:10 “But anything in the seas or the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is detestable to you.” Have you ever had lobster? I’m not a fan myself and i would assume you aren’t either because you’re bible says not to eat it. Unless, of course, that part of the bible is open to interpretation, unlike the parts you feel strongly about which no one can interpret differently.
    Leviticus 25:44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.’” If buying slaves from Mexico or Canada (literal neighbors of the U.S.) was legal, could you morally justify it? Would you support the slave trade because the bible gives you directions on how you are supposed to do it? And if we consider Africa our neighbors then can we justify bringing over Africans in the triangle trade and subjecting them to horrible treatment? The bible says nothing about people being born into slavery so it is a little different; however, with this logic you can justify bringing over any slaves you wanted to.
    Leviticus and Exodus sure do have some interesting rules that aren’t as closely followed today, kinda strange if you ask me. Some may say “oh, that’s just the Old Testament, not the New Testament,” let me remind you that the New Testament does not change anything in the old, it simply completes and adds to it. Another of my favorite comments on this is, “but that was a long time ago, times have changed.” Times sure have changed, however the parts that are changing now that you don’t like aren’t subject to change in your mind like the others.
    There is a reason there is separation of church and state in the United States, and this is exactly it. We would live in an unjust society and many people would be wrongly persecuted because of this, much like how sister bashed the gays in her speech. But of course, the bible is wide open to interpretation, so interpret it as you may; however, please keep and open mind to keep yourself from coming of as a hypocrite or a bigot.
    PS I would suggest not insulting people that disagree with you, it shows your immaturity, as does your entire post.

    • Lisa Julia

      “much like how sister bashed the gays in her speech.” is what you wrote just before your PS “I would suggest not insulting people that disagree with you, it shows your immaturity, as does your entire post.” Hmm.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      That’s amazing. And you weren’t even trying to be ironic.

      “PS I would suggest not insulting people that disagree with you, it shows your immaturity, as does your entire post.”

    • margaret1910

      Andrew, it would be best not to open your mind so far that your brain falls out.

      We Christians do not celebrate the Sabbath. The Sabbath is Saturday, you dolt. We respect, hopefully, the Lord’s Day..the Eighth day of creation.

      And, yes, yammer on about Judaic Law..which I suspect you do not respect or understand. If you want to know why Jews do not stone adulterers or whatever, I respectfully suggest you ask THEM. They are not theological idiots and can probably explain whatever you choose to ask.

      Were you there at the talk? If so, then please quote the good sister. If not, then please do not assume that everyone heard the same thing. This is obvious if you read the conflicting accounts.

      And stop calling this talk “persecution”. You just show that you are a total ignoramus. If you want to call the Ugandan law persecution, I would totally agree. Saying that homosexual relations are a sin is not persecution. In this country, you are free to say that gay sex is A-OK..A Catholic Sister, speaking in a Catholic school, is free to say that it is a sin. That is religious liberty and free speech.

  • AugustineThomas

    These kids are taught that the cool thing is to protest the Church, even if the Church is totally right. As long as they’re protesting that means they’re cool.
    It’s just like those kids in Seattle who all came out to celebrate themselves but said they were heroic defenders of the “married” homosexual couple. These people want to feel hip and counter cultural (even though they’re too foolish to realize that being an orthodox Ctholic is what’s now truly counter cultural). They don’t care about truth.


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