GOP Kansas House Speaker Prays for the Death of the President (From Chuck Currie)

This comes from the Rev. Church Currie’s Blog. I invite you, to go there and read the rest of his article, including a way to contact the Kansas Speaker’s office.  Here’s a bit of it…

Pat Cunningham reports that Speaker Mike O’Neal compared Michelle Obama to the Grinch in e-mails and later wrote over the holiday: ““I’m sure you’ll join me in wishing Mrs. YoMama a wonderful, long Hawaii Christmas vacation — at our expense, of course.”

In another e-mail, Speaker O’Neal forwarded Psalm 109, which reads: “May his days be few; may another seize his position…” and continues:

May his children be fatherless  and his wife a widow.

May his children be wandering beggars; may they be driven from their ruined homes.

May a creditor seize all he has; may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.

May no one extend kindness to him or take pity on his fatherless children.

O’Neal wrote: “At last — I can honestly voice a Biblical prayer for our president! Look it up — it is word for word! Let us all bow our heads and pray. Brothers and Sisters, can I get an AMEN? AMEN!!!!!!”

———————–

Kurt says: We need less political Bible thumping hypocrites in positions of power… or at least we need to quit buying the lie that Jesus plays a “big role” in many of their lives.  Some are sincere to be sure, but this goes to show us that we can’t be seduced by their rhetoric, either “right” or “left.” Unfortunately, however tongue in cheek this email may or may not have been, there is no excuse for wishing the death of someone – especially via the Bible.

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  • http://middletree.blogspot.com James Williams

    First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,  for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.  This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior

    1 Timothy 2:1-3

  • Yshekster

    I actually have an urge to throw up after reading that ‘prayer’.

    • http://patheos.com/blogs/thepangeablog/ Kurt Willems

      @e446116907a8d77b1ac5fcc5898657ad:disqus … I feel ya!

    • Mike Ward

      Why? Did you feel like throwing up the first time you read Psalm 109?

      I know, I know. Christ is our standard. But now that you are a Christian do the standards of the old covenant really make you want to throw up?

      Certainly I agree that Obama is not an enemy of anyone and does not deserve a prayer like Psalm 109, but O’neail was joking and David WAS SERIOUS.

      Does eveyone here understand that David is NOT dead. Christ was victorious. You all may run unto David some day in heaven. He is a real person. He does not deserve to be colatoral damage in an attack on politician.

      Can’t we just say that O’neal made a joke which was in bad taste and move on. Do we reallt have to call him a hypocrite for that!

      • http://nailtothedoor.blogspot.com Dan Martin

        Actually, David’s prayer was evil when he prayed it.  Including Psalm 109 in the Bible is not an error, because it shows that God is able to take even the most un-Godly thoughts coming from his followers.  But it was not an appropriate prayer when David prayed it, and it isn’t if we do.  Rather it’s evidence of God’s grace toward people who don’t deserve it…including David, and including us.

        • Mike Ward

          That’s a horrible thing to say

          • http://nailtothedoor.blogspot.com Dan Martin

            Not nearly as horrible as “May no one extend kindness to him or take pity on his fatherless children,” or even worse, “Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks” (Psalm 137:9). 

            These words are evil.  They are recorded in the Bible as a record of evil thoughts.  They do not make the Bible evil any more than an atheist quoting Jesus is thereby a Christian.

          • http://www.mystic444.wordpress.com/ Stephen G. Parker

            I agree with Dan about the “imprecatory” Psalms in general. The irony here, though, is that the words of verses 6-19 are not David’s prayer to God concerning his enemies, but their prayer to God concerning him!

            Verses 1-5 are David’s complaint to God about what his enemies were doing and saying. Note verses 2 and 3: “for wicked and deceitful men have opened their mouths against me; they have spoken against me with lying tongues. With words of hatred they surround me; they attack me without cause.”

            His enemies are plural, not a singular man. Yet verses 6-19 are imprecations against an individual. The Psalm doesn’t say “Appoint evil men to oppose THEM”, but “Appoint an evil man to oppose HIM.”

            David is here quoting the evil things his  enemies were saying concerning him. The NRSV brings this out by inserting the words “They say” at the beginning of verse 6; and the NIV acknowledges this as a possibility in a footnote.

            So ironically anyone who would pray that prayer would be praying the words of David’s enemies! :lol:

            David, though, in verse 20 asks for “poetic justice” by asking that God repay his enemies with the very things they desired for him. So he obviously had not risen above “an eye for an eye”  to “return  good for evil”. Let us seek God’s favor to learn how to “render not evil for evil”, but instead to seek good for those who consider themselves our enemies.

          • http://www.mystic444.wordpress.com/ Stephen G. Parker

            Sorry, I didn’t mean to post that comment twice. Kurt, perhaps you could delete one of them.

          • http://www.mystic444.wordpress.com/ Stephen G. Parker

            I agree with Dan about the “imprecatory” Psalms in general. The irony here, though, is that the words of verses 6-19 are not David’s prayer to God concerning his enemies, but their prayer to God concerning him!

            Verses 1-5 are David’s complaint to God about what his enemies were doing and saying. Note verses 2 and 3: “for wicked and deceitful men have opened their mouths against me; they have spoken against me with lying tongues. With words of hatred they surround me; they attack me without cause.”

            His enemies are plural, not a singular man. Yet verses 6-19 are imprecations against an individual. The Psalm doesn’t say “Appoint evil men to oppose THEM”, but “Appoint an evil man to oppose HIM.”

            David is here quoting the evil things his  enemies were saying concerning him. The NRSV brings this out by inserting the words “They say” at the beginning of verse 6; and the NIV acknowledges this as a possibility in a footnote.

            So ironically anyone who would pray that prayer would be praying the words of David’s enemies! :lol:

            David, though, in verse 20 asks for “poetic justice” by asking that God repay his enemies with the very things they desired for him. So he obviously had not risen above “an eye for an eye”  to “return  good for evil”. Let us seek God’s favor to learn how to “render not evil for evil”, but instead to seek good for those who consider themselves our enemies.

          • participant

            a really great answer.  For me, learning God’s Word more thoroughly and  accurately is really a great experience.

        • KingsofZion

          I suppose the telling of it is in God’s response to the prayer David prayed. 

  • Mike Ward

    I really don’t think this in an actual prayer for Obama’s death in that I don’t believe that Speaker O’Neal is emploring God to kill Obama.

    He quotes Psalm 109 and jokes about praying it to God in reference to Obama.

    Not a very tasteful joke, but the only person praying for anyone’s death here is David.

    I don’t think anyone should pray for Obama’s death, but I hope no one takes the position that a person can never pray for another person’s death because that would condemn David for Psalm 109.

    • Aaron

      I’m a new Christian, so I could be wrong,  but isnt Christ our ultimate example and not David? Are there things in the old covenant that don’t pretain to the new covenant?   Some one posted 1 Tim 2:1-3 does that not trump Psalms 109? First Timothy is a book of instruction Psalms is a book of poetry (not sure of that matters)

      Aren’t we NOT to use our tongue to curse each other.

      David was cool and I have prayed for God to give me such a the love for God that I to would be a man after Gods heart.  But didn’t David do somethings that the Holy Spirit would convict me not to do?

      • Nailed it

        Amen

      • http://patheos.com/blogs/thepangeablog/ Kurt Willems

        @de13a38cc5d55692676339d81454258d:disqus … excellent comment! Keep ‘em comin’!

      • Mike Ward

        Yes, Christ is our ultimate example and not David.

    • KingsofZion

      I suppose it’s the motive of the one praying.  Ananias and Sapphira were accurately condemned, but not by men. although the men had and role in bringing out what was going on by asking questions and exposing the truth. 
       
      context

      • http://nailtothedoor.blogspot.com Dan Martin

        @671e3eae3e90ae08c3a2f1bd39e8dc7d:disqus , you said “I don’t think anyone should pray for Obama’s death, but I hope no one
        takes the position that a person can never pray for another person’s
        death because that would condemn David for Psalm 109.”

        I disagree.  David did lots of things worthy of condemnation, his murder of Uriah and adultery with Bathsheba being only the most egregious example.  Just because the scriptures tell us David was a “man after God’s own heart” doesn’t mean he was infallible; in fact to suggest he *was* infallible is to ignore the testimony of the scriptures themselves.

        I do, in fact, condemn any prayer for another person’s death, and I think I’m squarely in the path of Jesus to say so.

        • Mike Ward

          That David sinned with Bathsheba does not mean any of his Pslams might be evil. Moses sinned. Could the Torah be evil? It commanded some bloody things. Was that just sinful Moses writing evil? Even the saints under the alter in Rev. 6 cry out for God’s vengeance on those who killed them.

          • http://nailtothedoor.blogspot.com Dan Martin

            You’re missing my point, @671e3eae3e90ae08c3a2f1bd39e8dc7d:disqus, so let me see if I can be clearer (though even when you know what I’m saying you may not agree).  Your statement that condemning the statement of Psalm 109 would be condemning David’s words, implied to me that you were imputing infallibility to David.  I merely pointed out that David was clearly not infallible.

            The subtext, of course, is whether the Psalms can contain wrong thoughts or incorrect statements.  I contend that they can and do, and Psalms 109 and 137 are superb examples of my point.  Praying that children wander fatherless and comfortless, and blessing those who smash babies’ heads on the rocks, are evil actions, evil prayers, borne out of evil impulses.  No doctrine of verbal inspiration can cover the evil of those sentiments.

            This does not mean that these “imprecatory” psalms should not have been included in the canon.  I maintain, in fact, that their inclusion is not in error, precisely because (like so many passages in the Bible), they demonstrate the kind of disgusting, depraved people to whom God extended (and still extends) his loving grace…which ought to be a comfort to the rest of us that God permits–nay, invites–us to be honest with him even about our unholiness.

            But in the final analysis what I’ve said above is incompatible with a doctrine of the Bible that sees the Psalms as the “word of God.”  I grant and acknowledge this without reservation.  And that’s a long subject that I would be happy to engage you on if you wish, though rather than hijacking Kurt’s blog it might be better to take it on over where I’ve actually written on Biblical inspiration.  If you’re interested I invite you to have a look at this article as a starting point.

            Peace!

          • participant

            I was thinking about how the Word of God is infallible in that the writing of it was wholly inspired by God.  It does provide necessary historical info as well as examples of precedent in situations which I find extremely valuable.

            This does not mean the same thing as believing that every action of those (mostly God’s people) referred in these same writings was inspired, encouraged or sanctioned by God. 

            For me, it’s also important not to expect to fully understand the times when God Himself chose to end a life by murder or by ordering others to war against other persons. It is God who alone judges the heart and the necessary measures in a situation.

            You know, Israel was a nation, a physical nation whose entire existence revolved around their relationship with God and His requirements for worship. For the most part, they seemed to be a docile people, but when push came to shove, they didn’t do too badly for themselves militarily (not because of their own abilities as we’ve seen). The exception was when God let them know they had crossed another gazillion lines and were headed to captivity.

            There is no precedent for the use of physical military power in the New Covenant . It is still God who judges the heart and there are examples of discernment by some of God’s people, but for the purpose of praying to God for Him to evaluate the situation and an appeal to His mercy and love for the person/persons.  Many times, it seems good to God’s people and to the Holy Spirit to handle a situation in a particular manner concerning administrative and other gifting ministries.  When He (the Holy Spirit) steps out to judge, He still takes our pleas into account as He did with Abraham and Lot when there was bartering for any in Sodom and Gomorrah that could be saved from judgement.  God humored Abraham, but He knew what was going on and how He had to handle it. 

            I’ve pleaded with God for years to come up with some way to change the judgement of the world as well as those in Him who are crucifying again the Son of Man. He does handle them differently in His dealings with them. He tends to be a bit harder on us in ways because we’re supposed to represent.

            It is good, Dan that you would never pray for another person’s death. 

            What I think we need to do is not assume we know more than God. We should ask Him in prayer for His mercy & maximum intervention. He seems good with input. I’ve come to believe that sometimes judgement is mercy as it prevents the situation from going to a place of no return.  That’s God’s business though.

            I personally follow new covenant precedent in my prayers.  And, I personally don’t have the authority nor the type of discernment to pray the pray of delivering one to satan that the soul might be saved (not that God needs a person/persons to do that for Him. For some reason, He does it that way), so I just pray general prayers for God’s people of courage and to be able to abide in Christ.  Sorry for the book, I just felt I should qualify my comments.

             

        • participant

          We have to have a basis for our beliefs other than our own human reasoning and opinions.  How do we formulate our understanding of God’s actions if we don’t take into account the experiences of those who’ve gone before? Well, most all that’s in the bible or extra biblical accounts. According to His own words, God still disciplines His children, and the Law hangs over the head of the those in the world until they come to Christ. How He judges is His business. 

          I thot jesus’ words were rough..but Paul is just not playin’ around at all.

        • participant

          keep those gloves above the belt:)

  • Mike Ward

    Also, why do you call O’neal a hypocrite? A hypocrite is someone who fails to live by the standard he holds others to. Failing to live to your standard does not make him a hypocrite.

    • KingsofZion

      I think hypocrisy is also believing specific moral obligations are binding to oneself, but not doing them.  So, one might believe God expects them to do certain things, but then they don’t do them.  O’neal just sounds frustrated and ignorant.

  • Mike Ward

    I’m curious how many of the Christians sending O’neal an email are gently admonishing him and how many are attacking him in an unloving matter.

  • Mike Ward

     This whole article may be a lie (Cunningham’s not Kurt’s)

    A post on Cunningham’s site says:

    “To make matters worse, Cunningham excludes the actual verse appearing in O’Neal’s email, Psalm 109:8, which reads: ‘Let his days be few; and let another take his office.’  Why wasn’t the actual verse from O’neal’s email quoted in Cunningham’s article?”

    Cunningham’s response to this poster does not contradict this claim so I leaning toward’s this being true. That is that O’neal actually only quoted 109:8, ““Let his days be few; and let another take his office” and was not going for Obama’s death but his defeath in office.

    The entire post can be seen at the link. It is by Rock Kennedy on Sunday, January 08, 2012 at 22:27 and is worth reading.

  • KingsofZion

    With a max office time of 8 years for a president, does anyone really need to say,”may his days (as President) be few?  It’s kind of a given.  YoMama thing is just way uncool. I do have a problem myself with the extravagant and numerous vacations these people seem to enjoy.  It makes me feel taken advantage of as though it’s an abuse of power.  The White House isn’t big enough to take a bit of a respite in? Like how many rooms does a person need?

    That whole prayer is just pitiful.  Even if it’s a joke, it’s not really a funny one.

  • KingsofZion

    interesting side note:  the only sanctioned NT prayer requesting harm to another is not a direct prayer for God to harm a person, but for approved leadership (whoever that is) to deliver such a person/persons  (discerned to be consistently spiritually destructive to oneself and others as well as unrepentant)  to Satan for the destruction of the flesh  (sounds unpleasant at best).

    Purpose:  that the soul might be saved.

    now there’s a job description (talk about yer career killers)…….!

     

     

  • participant

    Hope can always be found in Nineveh.


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