The Tony Jones Blog at Patheos
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Here’s some logic for you:
Teach your kids not to hit…
…by hitting them.
Whoever said that parenting and logic have anything to do with one another?
do you mean to tell me that hitting is wrong? hmm. that’s crazy.
It’s the same logic used for capital punishment:Teach people that killing is wrong……by killing people.
Tony – I can’t BELIEVE you would condemn spanking?? What’s with you anyway?? First homeschooling, now this…I’ll be praying for you.
Thanks for your logic.. now lets try God’s: Proverbs 13:24 He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him. Not sure where it say’s man’s (or Dr. Phil’s) logic is better than God’s. If you find that passage, let me know.
So long as I choose a different punishment for hitting, I am not a hypocrite.And never shall I talk my kids out of mean-speaking. Teach people their critical words are wrong……by critical words.The Bible is INSANE!
Dear Anonymous,It has been my understanding that the rod was a tool used by shepherds to help with the sheep. Last I checked, the rod was to guide the sheep, not to beat the sheep.
The logic used by the Preacher of Proverbs was not necessarily God’s. Solomon, in fact, is not a very sympathetic character in the Hebrew Bible, and he was hardly an exemplary family man, what with all those concubines and idols.Besides, you can’t pluck one verse out of context and call it “God’s logic” (although one of the problems with Proverbs is that it encourages just that kind of thing). If you could, I could say that you should stone your teenager for screaming “I hate you,” because that seems to be suggested by the Bible too (Exodus 21:17).http://modeforcaleb.blogspot.com
Yeah… AMEN!!!!!!Spanking is…* A CONFUSING, illogical messages to kids* A message that violence not relationship and communication is the way to solve problems…* Also, shames childen and SHAME can really mess someone up.
Tony, I reviewed your book today at my blog, http://jenellparis.blogspot.com/.Hopefully it will help sell a few books. If you make $100, that should pay for one of your kids to enjoy 10 minutes of a Bethel education.
i really don’t have a problem with spanking. it can defintely be done poorly but i have seen it done well and very effectively. anyway, apparently i am alone on this one but that’s cool. i certainly don’t think the Bible gives a clear picture of spanking. Pretty foolish to pull that one out mr. anonymous.
David M said… The Bible is INSANE!8:47 PM So, then is the pursuit of sanity a carnal impulse?
But I’m wondering, why is it wrong to teach your children to hit? Are we to grow up in a generation that cannot defend themselves in a time of need? Yes, I would agree, starting a fight and being active in that role is wrong, but similarly to what David touched on is in the bible. It tells us to ‘beat thy child, beat thy child with a rod, he will not die!’Clearly we are supposed to punish our children, but many people interpret that differently. I believe spanking a child is okay under the circumstances, but only to a certain point that is it okay. Overly using it and scaring a child is wrong, but using it in a time of need is okay.
dear tonydo you spank your dogsincerelyJack
Your death series has a degree of logic to it, and certainly a good ethic to it, but at the same time it is seems narrow. I’m not a fan of spanking. Often, spanking is done by parents out of anger – that’s bad. I know of parents who spank their ten year old, or even teens. Please, people, let’s grow up. By ten, their butts have calloused. If it ain’t working by then, dude, it just ain’t gonna work. On the other hand, a toddler reaching for the socket needs more than a time out. It need something that will communicate pain most similar to the that will naturally occur if that danger is realized. OK, that’s probably going to take the form of slap to the hand. Oh yes, the risk is that the pain will associated with the parent and not the socket. Yes and yes but… If someone has to knock me on my butt to get me out of the way of the oncoming car, I’m not going to hold it against them. Can a toddler reason that way? Before you say, no, try processing like a toddler. Do you even remember being a toddler? From a theological perspective, Hebrews says so0mething like we were are disciplined by a good fahter and we respected him for it. It does not make sense at the time, but we grow into it. A wholesale ban on spanking is not the answer. Danger prevention is a good reason to use this kind of correction. However, it is not the only way.
tony, this must be thoroughly entertaining for you: throw out topics like “homeschooling” and “spanking” on a blog read by many evangelicals who believe strongly in both. preface the topics with “death to” and then watch them go to town. i love it.
Yeah, I have to agree that I can only conclude you’re just having fun with the blogosphere. It is pretty damn funny, too. I am so thankful for the rebuttals, though, and I hope you’ve been thoroughly straightened out by the “logic” of confining God’s logic of child-rearing to one or two verses in Proverbs.But in all seriousness, I have been discouraged about the possibility of emergent ever being more than candles and church in-the-round by the utter inability of respondents to detach themselves from cultural and fundamentalist interpretations of the Word.–Zossima, http://www.forgettingourselves.com
“…by the utter inability of respondents to detach themselves from cultural and fundamentalist interpretations of the Word.”But in a postmodern culture, isn’t a detachment from the “cultural interpretation of scripture” a postmodern action in and of itself?It seemed like a humorous paradox when I first thought about it…
The emergence of fundamentalism of the the emergent type, not merely in content, but more insidiously in process, was only a matter of time.
Emergent seems to be as strait as any other way yet not all that straight.But if I see a sheep sharpening its teeth and with an exudance of blood upon its breath, then I will strongly consider the use of the rod upon said sheep.
I guess I won’t be sending you my signed copy of Babywise for Christmas.My wife thinks caddle prods and Tasers are just as effective for teaching about electricity and the pain from an electrical outlet.By the way, I just put up a posting on Al Mohler’s review of Brian’s book (I thought it might interest you and get someone to my blog).It is at djword.blogspot.com (you have to go to my site for the link, heh).Rick
what a “caddle prod”? Just kidding..Bible is pretty violent when dealing with misbehaving people. My only concern is that those opposed use a lot of “I think” or “I feel”, but no real Biblical truth to back up there position. I am all for differing opinions, just give me a good basis for it. So let me guess the next controversial blog.. “Gays.. what gives?” or maybe “Predistination, for it or against it”
I’m generally the first one to point out the difference between correlation and causation, but in this case the co-incidence of “enlightened” parenting and an increase in the prevalence of disrespectful children seems more than coincidental. I don’t think children are at all philosophically confused by receiving lightning from above when they pound on another youngster. In fact, it seems poetic in its justice. Sometimes our perfect little angels are just being brats and another time-out just isn’t going to do the trick.
manofredearth: Actually, the “rod” is like a club.I think there is only so much that can be accomplished from putting your child in time out. Parents should be thoughtful about how they discipline their children and mindful of the individual child.You may be just goading us on Tony, (or clubbing us, as the case may be), but i don’t agree with your logic. There are lots of things I can impose on my child that he can’t impose on me. This is part of life. To me, “spanking” is not the same as hitting. I don’t just make a fist and punch my son when I’m angry at him for something. I (hopefully) don’t hurt him because of a temper tantrum. Hitting and spanking are two different things.
i agree – that is why we need to bomb al queda and evil muslims (not the good muslims) likewise, bomb the evil christians
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