From the Denver Post:
A Pennsylvania man says he considered it divine providence when a bank error put more than $175,000 in his and his wife’s account. Fifty-year-old Randy Pratt and 36-year-old Melissa Pratt face trial in Columbia County Court on felony theft and conspiracy charges….
The trouble started when a $1,772.50 deposit to the Pratts’ FNB Bank account showed up as $177,250 last summer. Police say that instead of telling the bank, they withdrew the money, quit their jobs and moved to Florida….
[T]he couple gave away thousands of dollars, including $25,000 to a Florida church shelter for the homeless.
But keep in mind, folks, that Christians are far more moral than atheists can ever be. That’s just the way it is.
Seriously though, would you have given the money back to the bank?
Given the state of most banks at the moment, I doubt that an error like that would slip under their radar for long. Yes, I’d give it back – not from any sense of moral duty, but because I’d want to pre-empt the court order demaning it back.
How dumb do you have to be to think you can get away with a stunt like that?
As much as I would hate to, I’d give it back. If I’m being completely honest though, that’s partly because it’s the right thing to do but mostly because they’d find out.
Morally, I”d really want to give back the money.
Considering the way most banks are acting with their handouts, though, I would be really tempted to keep it.
Right, eventually the bank would notice that the numbers didn’t quite add up, and $175+ would be too large an error for the bank to miss. And given the state of the banking industry, heads would roll. I don’t want some poor teller getting canned because they hit the decimal point at the wrong time.
Beside, I figure the best way to come out ahead, rather than in court, would be to courteously point out the error to the bank manager. There’s even a small chance that reporting it would net me a small payment for spotting their error. I’ve seen banks apologize for errors that way; I figure there has to be a budget item for those kinds of things.
Morally, I would want to give the money back. But seeing as how they are all just being bailed out by the gov’t anyways, I would be quite tempted to keep it.
Haha this is ridiculous….I know how much you atheists love bashing Christians but please don’t judge all of us based on stupid ones like these.
Oh and yeah, I’d give the money back. Been watching Prison Break a lot lately and any time in the slammer just doesn’t look good at all.
Thanks for stopping by :D Like the blog, obviously.
And by that, I meant I like your blog. Pesky pronouns.
I would give it back. As far as I’m concerned, I really don’t have a morally defensible choice otherwise- it isn’t my money. I consciously buy into the meme of honesty and integrity- it how I want society to function, and I would be a hypocrite if I said one thing and did the other.
Besides, how would I feel if I was suddenly OUT $175000 due to a bank error?
I would definately give it back… after fantasizing for an hour or so about what fun things I could do with it. ;-)
As an ethical person, I would return the money—and as a customer I would be seriously pissed at the bank’s incompetence.
Wouldn’t a “moral” Christian think it was a test from their G-d and not just a gift?
It would be tempting to keep, but not enough for the bad karma or the jail time.
Over the years, I have found three wallets on the street. In one case, I went through the wallet, found a hotel key card, went to the hotel and left it at the desk once the attendant confirmed that the person was staying in the hotel and had been looking for his wallet. The other two wallets I put in envelopes and sent to the address on the driver’s license. I never even looked in the section of the wallet where the money is contained.
But, $175,000 mistakenly put into my checking account. That one I would have to think about. Not about whether the money would be returned, that’s a given, but whether in the meantime I would move it to my savings in the hopes of earning some interest on that. In the end, I would think that the possibility of earning a few bucks of interest would be mighty slim especially compared to the grief of when the bank finally figured out their mistake. So, even though I would actually think of doing that, in the end I would likely return the money immediately.
This kind of thinking is often derided as “situational ethics” but, in point of fact, that’s what it is and it’s normal. All ethical decisions are nuanced. Some are moral decisions of fairly clearly defined right and wrong. Most occur along a spectrum of right and wrong. Sure, it’s wrong but it’s not very wrong. Certainly not as wrong as some other things. In those cases, the possibility and severity of punishment or other consequences become part of the decision making process.
Anyone who says they follow the absolute moral principles of the Bible is lying.
I’d've given it back, but let the bank hear an earful about making such a stupid mistake. Do you know what I could do with $175k?
@Brandon: I don’t love bashing Christians; I love bashing lunacy, idiocy, and superstition masquerading as reason and desiring to impose itself upon me and my way of life.
Good question. Who is 100% honest all of the time?
Most people would tend to weigh the of risk of detection vs potential windfall.
I’d probably have reported it, though it would be nice to have made a little interest off it until the bank realised its mistake and came calling. Maybe.
Off topic, but the guy’s name is Randy Pratt? Is that as funny in the US as it would be in the UK?
Brandon~
I don’t think we’re bashing these idiotic people because they’re Christian.
We’re rather used to being bashed by being told that we couldn’t possibly have a moral compass because we’re atheist.
I think this story shows that neither do Christians. We’re all the same. Well, sort of. I think there was something missing in the evolutionary chain for these two, whether or not they were ‘christian’.
And for me, I’d so give it back, despite the temptation. I know my child would be looking, observing, and in time, imitating.
These folks are idiots. KNOW THIS, to all atheists/agnostics/skeptics – this is not what I would do or condone.
Allow me to clarify a mistaken overwhelming theme (from my perspective) – believing in God does not make me holy, sinless, perfect, 190 IQ, turn my yard into a Keebler treehouse, turn my car into a unicorn, and put rainbows all over my walls. I’m still HUMAN!!!! While these folks mentioned here are idiots, they made a CHOICE. Contrary to what some may think, I’m not a robot just because I believe in God. If you think that, you have no clue what I believe and you should stop commenting and just go play Wii.
The beauty here is that I purposely read this blog and enjoy the INTELLIGENT thoughts of Daniel Florien and many of you. And in reading them, regardless of our different opinions, theories, and religious visions, I don’t generalize. I LOVE to hear what goes on in people’s heads – Christians, ESPECIALLY atheists, and even the idiot Christians like these mentioned here.
Exposure brings experience and experience brings a broader perspective. Bring it, I want to learn from YOU. You don’t call me delusional or stupid and I won’t say “you’re going to hell, you evil satanist.” Ha. I don’t think that but I know what some “Christians” say. ha ha
If you have a question or want to know my thoughts, ask me via my blog or email. I’d be THRILLED to give you a straight answer WITHOUT the “I’m gotta convert you” crap. That annoys me too. Trust me. I also think Daniel should put up a rule against proselytizing, as he mentioned in a previous comment. Might stop my fellow Christians from making us look like idiots (or bigger idiots in your minds). ha.
Dialogue is where it’s at. All I’m saying is that you don’t want me trying to convert you, don’t try to correct me. Let’s talk. PLEASE!!!
[sorry for this rant, I'll slow my roll once I get to speak to someone who intelligently wants to speak. Daniel, sir, carry on]
I would spend the $175,000 on copies of The Secret.
I’d buy an Aston Martin.
@Brandon Sneed
“Haha this is ridiculous….I know how much you atheists love bashing Christians …”
Or on the other hand maybe some people think that the most powerful nation having an overtly right wing Christian outlook is a bad thing?
I would dream about fun things for an hour or two, then I would report the mistake to the bank. But I would also expect an honesty fee, a small payment for spotting and reporting the error.
I actually just had something like that happen to me. I felt bad taking what was probably someone else’s money, so I called the bank to find out. Sure enough, someone had made a mistake when they deposited.
Which sucks, because I’d like to buy myself a new car. :)
What would you do in this… ahem, hypothetical… scenario: you participate in an event where travel costs are supposed to be reimbursed, but because you’re local, you didn’t incur any costs aside from some subway fares (and don’t recall reporting these). Half a year later you receive a check in the mail from the company hosting the event for about $200. Not a large amount but not necessarily pocket change either. You can’t find anything on the check or the stub indicating what exactly it’s for, and since you can’t remember filing any expenses (and if you had, they weren’t for that much), you’re not sure if the company made a mistake or not.
Would you contact the company to ask (hoping they’d say to keep it)? Or would you deposit it without saying anything (hoping that you just forgot what it was for)?
How come in the game Monopoly…when there is a:
“Bank error in your favor”
You never have to give that money back? ;)
@Stephen Webb
What are you talking about???
Where do you see on this post that anyone generalized about Christians?
Nobody poked fun at the people mentioned in the article just because they are Christian. Any fun was made of them because not only did they keep the money (which no one here says they would have done), but they seriously told police that they thought it was a gift from God.
It would be one thing if we had read a story about a Christian man keeping found money, and then we all joked that he “probably thought it was a gift from God”. But, he actually said it!
No one here thinks that most or even a lot of Christians would think the same thing, therefore no one is generalizing. Calm down.
What I don’t understand is how they expected to quit their jobs and be able to live off of that amount for any prolonged length of time, especially if they’re handing it out to other people by the thousands! I suppose they were going to let god take care of that dilemma when the time came too… I honestly wish stupidity was illegal, but then again, who would enforce that law if all the lawyers were in jail for breaking it!
I would immediately return the money. Keeping it would be stealing. Something my Christian step-daughter doesn’t seem to understand when she uses my husband’s credit card without his knowledge, but my agnostic son and atheist step-son seem to completely understand.
Something similar happened to my husband and I last year. We deposited a check via the ATM and put our checking account # on it but told the ATM that we were depositing it into savings. Of course the bank immediately credited our savings account then when they processed the check the next day also credited our checking account. It took me over an hour to convince the back to take the money out of the account the day I realized what happened. They wanted me to wait for the end of the month when “it would all work itself out.”
i would have loved to keep the money but u just know that they will solve the problem and come looking… wouldn’t have made sense in the end…
Absolutely I would give it back. This sort of happened to me once. I thought the bank had made a mistake, so I complained. It was only a few hundred dollars, so they “fixed” it and put the money in my account. When I was reviewing my finances a couple month later, I discovered that I had been wrong, that the bank hadn’t made a mistake. I had to tell them to take the money back out of my account.
I was a poor college student, in debt, and could have really used the extra money. But I’m no idiot. Taking money that doesn’t belong to you is stealing. I’m a Christian. A Mormon, to be specific.
Absolutely.
In fact I’ve already given money back when there was an error before. It was “only” $60, but it was the right thing to do.
This has happened to me. It wasn’t 100K, but it was a good couple thousand, at least. The first thing I did was borrow someone’s mobile and call the bank.
Okay, not because I’m so good and moral. It was mostly because I knew it would get caught and I didn’t want to be the idiot who tried to run off with the money.
Stephen Webb – The reason we point out when Christians, specifically, do something immoral is because so many Christians claim that morality comes from God and that atheists either can’t have morality of their own (since they reject God) or decided to be atheists so that they could ignore “the rules.”
The point being made is that converting to Christianity, getting baptised, or accepting Jesus as your lord and saviour does NOT make you a moral person. Refusing to do those things doesn’t make you an immoral person. We all have the same innate morality (with some noted exceptions) and we all make choices based on that innate morality. Believing in God is not a requirement to being a good person. Believing in God does not give you (hypothetical ”you”) the right to assume that you are better, more moral, or in any way superior to anyone else.
Do you see the point of posts like these now?
If they had said, “we thought it was a gift from Zeus”, would that make the statement more ridiculous?
I’ve read some of your blog, and your “About Me” section. I don’t really know what modern branch of evangelicalism that you belonged to, but it was obviously out of touch with historic Christianity.
And you can’t be THAT widely read, as you said, if you think that evolution is not compatible with Christianity. Whatever “secular” sources you’ve read were obviously as biased as the Christian sources.
I’m willing to bet that you’ve never read any of the works by GK Chesterton, who was an atheist or agnostic, and you’ve probably never read much CS Lewis. You can’t be “widely read” in this field without them.
It is clear to me that you’ve simply exchanged one creed “protestant late 20th century easy believe-ism” for “late 20th century materialism”. Which, of course, is a creed unto itself.
I’d love to discuss some of this stuff with you, we can even blog it, if you like. I don’t expect to see you reverted, but I know that I can show you that your own new creed is full of more holes, less reason, and almost zero common sense when compared to real Christianity.
Thanks for reading,
Lazarus
http://www.WhatTroubleAreGiants.com
This isn’t so much about Christianity than it is about a man making a very dumb decision. The money belongs to the bank – period!
By the way, I stumbled onto this site since it was featured on WordPress.com. In reading your reasons of no longer being a Christian, there was something missing in your stories – your lack of acknowledgement of the need to be saved to begin with! In other words, you had a head knowledge on what it meant to be a Christian but you missed the heart part – eternal gratitude for God sacrificing His son for your Sins!
I haven’t met a professing Christian yet who turned from God’s grace to unbelief.
Darn Grimalkin you took the point I was going to make to Stephen. Stephen you also have to look at how they said that it was a gift and where does that type of thinking usually come from. I know a few of the churches around here teach that god rewards those deserving of rewards. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the mindset they have.
Of course it could also be that they are just trying to play the system, they might not even attend church. There are a large number of people that only attend when it is to their advantage to attend.
Personally, I know that I would, eventually, return it. It WOULD be a struggle, mostly because I am unemployed, and so my income is er, null. However, I know that I wouldn’t be able to live with the guilt if I didn’t, regardless of being caught or not.
I also know that I would call everyone I know and tell them about it, and ask them what they would do. The funny thing is, I honestly do think that I can predict the answer of two of my friends. My religious best friend, she would tell me to spend that money to get my life back on track. My atheist best friend would tell me to turn it in, because it’s wrong to keep it.
My parents, one atheist and one Christian, would both tell me to return it.
Accepting evil to do good… or doing good to reject evil.
I sometimes wonder if this moral high ground that (most) atheists seem to have comes from the belief that we’re only here for one life? For religious people, what we do in this life is of lesser importance, it only matters in how it effects our standing in the next life?
shwu:
Call them, and try and straighten it out. It would be nice if it turned out they were right to send it to me (obviously), but I don’t think I’d be actively “hoping” that it would turn out that way.
I can’t imagine I’d be comfortable having money I didn’t think I was entitled to.
@Carlotta – try reading godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America’s Leading Atheists by Dan Barker.
@Laz:
Well, uh, EVERY modern branch of evangelism is “out of touch” with historic Christianity, since most of Christian history is Catholicism.
But if you mean out of touch with apostolistic Christianity, you couldn’t be more wrong. I participated in many sects trying to “get back to the bible” and follow only its teachings.
But I guess you wouldn’t approve unless it is the exact sect you happen to be affiliated with at this point — and even if it was, you’d have a new explanation about how I wasn’t a “true” Christian.
I do think evolution is compatible with Christianity, and I was an evolutionist for part of the time I was a Christian. And I know many Christian evolutionists. And I’ve read many books by Christians supporting evolution.
So why would you think I don’t think evolution is compatible with Christianity? I never said that.
You’re not scoring so well so far. Let’s try your next claim and see if you do better.
Actually, I’ve read many of GK Chesteron’s writings. In fact, I even regularly attended Chesterton Society meetings. Could you be more wrong?
Also Chesterton wasn’t “an atheist or agnostic” — he was a Roman Catholic. Have YOU read him?
You say I’ve “probably never read CS Lewis,” but on the contrary, I’ve read almost EVERYTHING he wrote, including many of his letters.
Again, wrong!
Go for it. We’ve heard this many times before. It never ends like you suggest.
I hope you have more accuracy in being correct than you have been in this post, because you’ve gotten almost everything wrong, and you probably won’t even admit it.
I would give the money back… Not necessarily because it would be the right thing to do, but mostly because I know I would be caught. Now, if I knew that I wouldn’t be caught, then no, I probably wouldn’t give the money back.
Just being honest here.
I would return it, though not without a wistful sigh and a few fantasies about going on the biggest book-buying binge EVAR.
And Brandon, if you’re still here….I can guarantee you that, if the couple in this article had been specifically mentioned as being atheists, the blogosphere would be ringing with exultant theists pointing (metaphorical) fingers at the “typically atheistic behavior”.
I haven’t met a professing Christian yet who turned from God’s grace to unbelief.
@Carlotta
Hi, I’m Alex. A 33 year faithful Christian believer that recently turned from God’s grace to unbelief. It’s nice to meet you.
We are all flawed as human beings. That isn’t debateable. It just didn’t happen because a woman ate a piece of fruit. Acknowledgement that we need to be saved by god sacrifice of his son requires you to remove your brain and use only your heart.
Hey Alex, thanks for your introduction!
I’ve had my periods of doubt and there’s only one thing that has kept me going and that is what I believe about Jesus Christ.
I reasoned this: Did Jesus Christ truly exist? Because of the external sources other than the bible and even other religions who talked about this Jesus (Islam and others), then the next question began, who had the most accurate information about him? The Koran? No because the writer wrote about Jesus 600 years after his birth. The bible? So far that has proven to me to be the most accurate with eyewitness accounts of folks who lived, ate, talked and walked with him.
Believe me, it was more than just a heart issue and my faith in God has been strengthened over the intellectual reasoning behind the existence of Jesus Christ, and His words of love as well as warning to human kind.
Not super scholarly brain waves, but simple reasoning to come to the conclusion that Jesus is who He claims to be in the bible.
@Carlotta: You can also add me to the list. Nice to meet you! :)
I’m not sure how you researched the Bible, but there are no eyewitness accounts about Jesus’ life in there. Paul is the earliest writer, and he didn’t know anything about Jesus life apart that he was crucified and resurrected. The stories hadn’t been invented yet (or if they had, Paul hadn’t heard them).
The names on the gospels were put on the manuscripts long after they were written (except Luke, who admits he wasn’t an eyewitness) — the 3 gospels are anonymous. And written many generations after Jesus lived.
Carlotta said:
I haven’t met a professing Christian yet who turned from God’s grace to unbelief.
Have you been living under a rock?
You found a blog that is FULL of ex-Christians. The blog’s author is an ex-Christian.
I, myself, am an ex-Christian.
I was raised in Christianity, attended a Christian private school from 5th grade until high school graduation, and was a professing Christianity up until my senior year in high school.
I was a Christian. I believed in God, and in Jesus, and in the Holy Spirit, and in the entirety of the Bible, and in the Bible’s complete inerrancy. But more than simply believing in God, I loved God, and I loved Jesus. He was my Lord, my Savior, my hope for Eternal Life, and Eternal Love. He was there watching, and He was there with me, guiding me, protecting me, teaching me.
And then I woke up.
*ahem* I am full of grammatical and spelling errors today…
“…and was a professing Christianity up until…”
“…and was a professing Christian up until…”
@Carlotta
The three anonymous gospels that Daniel mentions do claim to be eyewitness accounts. Unfortuneately there are numerous inconsistencies between these eyewitness accounts. The second problem is the earliest gospel attributed to Mark was written at least 35-60 years after Jesus died. Would you believe the accuracy of testimony in a court of law 60 years after they witnessed something?
Thank you Daniel, nice meeting you too! You have a very interesting and thought provoking blog here!
I guess I have to ask you where are you getting your information about the bible from? We believe differently about it. I believe the writers of all of the gospels are known, you say they are anonymous. There’s a problem right there to start!
@Lord of Numa, do you have a blog or something that I can read more about you? Like, what caused you to stop believing in Christ? I just want to see as many as people’s stories as possible of why they are no longer Christian. A lot of people I know stopped believing when it came to actually choosing a lifestyle they know God wouldn’t approve of. Then it became a matter making excuses of why Jesus no longer meant anything to them rather then admitting, “I just don’t want to follow after Christ!”
Kind of like the rich young ruler who really had it going as far as being a “good person.” But when asked to give up his riches and follow after Christ, the ruler became saddened and decided he didn’t love and believe in Christ THAT much! He loved his riches more! (Matt 19:16-30) That’s the way I view a lot of atheists. There is something in your lives that you’d rather not give up although you consider yourselves rather good moral people. For some of you it’s nothing more than the belief that you are smarter than God and therefore don’t need him. Pride and the worship of self.
@alex – “Would you believe the accuracy of testimony in a court of law 60 years after they witnessed something?”
Yes I would. I’m writing a book myself now based upon events that happened in my life over 30 years ago, events I remembered as if I were right there! So I know its quite possible.
@Carlotta: Why do you believe the apostles wrote the gospels? Have you read much about the authorship of the gospels? I am not aware of any evidence that they were written by the apostles — they don’t even claim to be! It is only church tradition.
Here is some summary info for you about it:
http://www.progressiveu.org/003039-skeptical-bible-study-who-wrote-gospels
I would without a doubt give the money back. Here’s why:
Someone is out that money. Maybe it’s another one of the bank’s customers who made a mistake on a deposit slip. Maybe it’s the bank and/or its insurance company. Maybe it’s some poor bank employee sho made a data entry mistake, but somebody else is coming up short the $175K I just gained.
I wouldn’t want someone walking off with my $175k, so I wouldn’t do it to someone else.
I guess atheists can have morals.
There is something in your lives that you’d rather not give up
Yep. I’d rather not waste my Sundays.
For some of you it’s nothing more than the belief that you are smarter than God and therefore don’t need him.
Hmm. Do I believe I’m smarter than someone else’s imaginary friend? It would be hard to say I’m smarter than something that doesn’t exist, so no I don’t think I’m smarter.
Carolotta said “For some of you it’s nothing more than the belief that you are smarter than God and therefore don’t need him.”
At some point I don’t think theists and atheists can truly have a conversation because the one tries to narrate the other’s story using their own concepts. This statement that Carlotta made is from a Christian narrative. She essentially says, “Atheists reject God.” Like something Satan (who believes in God) would do.
Yet, an atheist can not make this statement because atheism is not anti-God. Atheism is without God. There is no rejection because there is no belief. But I don’t think Christians – with the dualism that seems to be inherent in Christian thinking – can get this concept.
Carlotta wrote:
@Lord of Numa, do you have a blog or something that I can read more about you? Like, what caused you to stop believing in Christ? I just want to see as many as people’s stories as possible of why they are no longer Christian. A lot of people I know stopped believing when it came to actually choosing a lifestyle they know God wouldn’t approve of. Then it became a matter making excuses of why Jesus no longer meant anything to them rather then admitting, “I just don’t want to follow after Christ!”
Haha no, I don’t have a blog. I tried that, but I found that blogging wasn’t really my thing. I don’t really have that kind of attention span.
To answer your question as to what caused me to stop believing: Well… it’s a long story. My deconversion process was not nearly as quick and sudden as I made it sound. You see, it began during the summer before senior year, and by Christmas break, I was ready to call myself an Atheist. Everything in between was part of that process.
I guess I do have the time to give a rather detailed explanation.
I want to start off by apologizing for how I ended my other comment (“And then I woke up.”). I did not intend that to be interpreted as an attack on believers. I meant it more as a metaphor for my deconversion process, which, in hindsight, seems to me to be, in a sense, a form of enlightenment. I apologize if this was misconstrued. I am a little stressed right now with school, and I did not put too much thought into the way I phrased my message, and therefore did not consider alternate interpretations.
You see, as I was entering my senior year, I was having serious doubts about my faith. I cannot tell you the origins of those doubts, as I do not know them. All I can tell you is that high school was rough for me, as I was dealing with many social, personal, and family issues, but I won’t go into much more detail than that.
And so, I entered my senior year, wondering if I really believed what I claimed to believe. I had become rather disillusioned with Christianity, as a religion, as I had encountered situations of severe hypocrisy within several churches I had attended, and within my school.
Now, senior year is when the students in the high school take World Views, which is a class dedicated to the study of the various economic, political, and religious world views we see in history and in the modern world (the most prevalent views, of course). Now, in my teacher’s defense, I do believe he tried his hardest to teach the class from a relatively objective viewpoint, but, of course, it would not be entirely possible for the class to be taught without at least a small bit of Christian bias.
Now, as we started talking about all of these world views, the religious ones in particular, I began to think about my own world view, my own religion, Christianity. However, I stopped looking at it from the viewpoint of a Christian, and started looking at it from an objective viewpoint. I started looking at it as a major religion, in comparison with the other major religions, without any of my Christian bias. When I did that, I came to a startling revelation: Christianity is essentially the exact same as every other major, exclusive religion.
Then I began to think, honestly, about why I believed in Christianity. Well, I believed in God because the Bible said He existed. Why did I believe that the Bible was true? Well, because the Bible was inerrant, of course. But wait… Why did I believe the Bible was inerrant? I could not come up with an answer to this, other than “Because it says so.” Now, at that point, I noticed the circular logic, but I didn’t feel threatened by it, because, at that time, I was still living in The Truth. But I was still stumped, and so I searched within myself for the answer to that question: “Why do I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible?”
The answer I came to started my gradual deconversion process:
“I believe the Bible is inerrant because I have grown up being told it was inerrant. From the time that I was a child, in every church I have attended since my early youth, I was told that the Bible was inerrant and that God existed.”
And, after that point, all of my faith in the tenants of Christianity vanished. I still believed in a god, but not in the Christian God. I slowly began to lose all faith in a loving, caring, interceding god. At that point, I considered myself to be a deist.
Then I started to call myself Agnostic, as I didn’t know what to believe. There was too much pressure to believe in God, but blind faith had never been my strong point, and I finally felt alive, and fresh with my new-found disbelief. To use a Christian term, I had been reborn.
Then I decided to buck it up and call myself an Atheist. However, I didn’t come out until the end of the school year, as I was very afraid of the repercussions.
That is basically it. I mean, that is a heavily condensed version, but it contains all of the main points of my deconversion.
Long read, I know, but I hope it provides some insight :D
@Daniel: I’ve read quite a bit about the authorship of the New Testament books. We are extremely at odds in even getting our information. I’m sure you’ve researched this and have an answer for everything but I’ll list some sources where folks can see which point of view I’m coming from.
Let me emphasis that my visit here wasn’t to start a debate, but to find out why those of you who call yourselves “ex-Christians” do so.
Anyway, here’s a site that’s pretty much in agreement with what I believe about biblical authorship:
http://www.tektonics.org/ntdocdef/mattdef.html#selfid
Oh come on, don’t tell me I took the time to write that whole, long comment for nothing.
@Carlotta: Good for you for reading up on your position! That’s always encouraging to hear. So few do.
I know most fundamentalist scholars argue that 3 of the gospels were written by apostles. But isn’t it strange that it’s only people who already accept it as true? You won’t find liberal Christians or secular scholars putting forth this kind of assertions or being swayed by them. Doesn’t that worry you a little?
It’s the same for Mormons. They claims all kinds of things about the book of mormon. But no scholar take it seriously other than the conservative mormon ones. To me that shows a pretty big problem.
@ carlotta
“Hi, I’m Alex. A 33 year faithful Christian believer that recently turned from God’s grace to unbelief. It’s nice to meet you.”
mark bey: I can relate to alex and all of the other former christians here. I used to be a christian before I woke up, in fact I was so blind that once after hearing that you couldnt really be of god and listen to music I destroyed my entire music collection then threw it away.
Actually it took 2 tries the first time to threw my albums away, I got cold feet and retrieved them from the trashcan . About 2 weeks later I threw all of my albums away again still thinking that listening to secular music was not of god, but this time I cut the tape of each cassette to make sure I couldnt retrieve them.
My first step towards deconversion came during one night while reading the bible, I looked up towards the heavens (ceiling) and begged the christian god to show me a sign if the bible was true. I didnt beg for money, a girlfriend or even happiness. I was perfectly willing to believe if I had been I had been shown a sign But I wasnt. That was back in highschool by the way.
About 4 years later a very wise and thoughful lady told me that their may not be a god. I thought about for a minute and it turned out she made perfectly good sense to me.
My non belief has been further strengthened by my continued intellectual growth. Probably now one of the biggest non beilable things about all religions is the fact that a jealous god who wants all people to believe in him (only 1 god), would even allow contradictory religious and god beliefs to exist in the first place and them throw them in hell if they pick the wrong. I find this though hard to believe comming from a loving and all powerful god.
Also why does a god who wants to be loved and glorified hide from those seeking to love and glorify him?
Also I cant figure out why god would wait so long to bring christianity to the highly literate cultures of China and japan. Once again especially given the fact that he is going to sentence all japaneese and chinese non christians to hell.
So basically god dosent expose or enlighten a literate culture with his word until a few centuries ago but all of those people are going to burn in hell for eternity for not bieng christians.
This is a thought process that I cannot accept as logical.
@cicely….Yeah, you’re probably right.
@ markbay….Please understand I speak with all respect and grace here, but just felt compelled to offer a couple of brief thoughts….The relationship between God and his people is most similar to that of a pure, loving relationship between two people. Do you destroy everyone else your significant other might love? Of course not. But why?
Because if you destroy everything else they might turn to, you never experience the joy of realizing they love you above all the others.
Just thoughts.
@ brandon
“Do you destroy everyone else your significant other might love? Of course not. But why?
Because if you destroy everything else they might turn to, you never experience the joy of realizing they love you above all the others. ”
mark: Please tell me how your comments adresses or relates to what I said.
@Markbey said: “I looked up towards the heavens (ceiling) and begged the christian god to show me a sign if the bible was true.”
That was the first thing you did unpleasing to our Lord because the word says it is evil to seek after signs:
“38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. — Matt 12:38-40
What you should have done if you were truly sincere in believing in God was ask him to help you with your unbelief as a man did in the bible when he asked Jesus to heal his son:
22 “It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.”
23 ” ‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for him who believes.”
24 Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!” full passage Mark 9:21-29
God honors those of us who sincerely want to know him. But He knows those who have ill-intent.
Carlotta Said:
God honors those of us who sincerely want to know him. But He knows those who have ill-intent.
Do you think that Markbey’s intentions were bad when He asked God to show him a sign?
By that, what you just posted is a cop-out. Instead of actually tackling the issue, you decided to avoid it by throwing a few Bible verses at it.
Newsflash: None of us give a shit what the Bible says. Wanna know why? Because we don’t believe in the Bible. It is just a book full of fairy-tales and fictional stories.
@Daniel – you said: “I know most fundamentalist scholars argue that 3 of the gospels were written by apostles. But isn’t it strange that it’s only people who already accept it as true? You won’t find liberal Christians or secular scholars putting forth this kind of assertions or being swayed by them. Doesn’t that worry you a little?”
Not at all. There are different scenarios in the reasoning behind the New Testament authorship being of the same whom the books are named after. That link I provided you goes over many of those. Quite logical reasoning behind why this belief is held by many Christians.
@ Lord of Numa you said: “Newsflash: None of us give a shit what the Bible says. Wanna know why? Because we don’t believe in the Bible. It is just a book full of fairy-tales and fictional stories.”
Numa, I don’t worry whether or not you believe in the bible. I have the freedom to share it as my authoritative source if I wish to share it with folks.
I leave it up to you to reject or accept it.
Carlotta Wrote:
I have the freedom to share it as my authoritative source if I wish to share it with folks.
Yes, you are more than welcome to claim it to be your authoritative source, but you must be prepared for the criticism you are to receive for doing so.
It certainly does not help you argument the slightest bit.
@ carlotta
“God honors those of us who sincerely want to know him. But He knows those who have ill-intent.”
mark: Why you question my intent is beyond me as you dont know me, the fact is I reached out and tried to find that christian with all sincerity and still your god didnt speak to me. Please tell what ill-intent I had if I beg your god for answers, not money, women or even happiness.
“What you should have done if you were truly sincere in believing in God was ask him to help you with your unbelief as a man did in the bible when he asked Jesus to heal his son”
mark: How come god didnt tell me this himself. Also I was a christian at the time, so this is invalid.
“39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet
Mark: Also you assumed I didnt seek the sign of the prophet when you have no way of knowing this. I was not specific in which sign that I asked for so the sign your christian god should have sent me could have been the prophet for all I cared.
Also please enlighten us on why a christian god who loves us and wants us to find him, not only hides from man, but also allows lies (other religions) to exist. Especailly given the fact that to believe in a non christian god means burning in hell for eternity.
@ daniel
Have you deconverted any former theist to our beautiful and truthful position of atheism.
@markbey – you said: “Also please enlighten us on why a christian god who loves us and wants us to find him, not only hides from man, but also allows lies (other religions) to exist. Especailly given the fact that to believe in a non christian god means burning in hell for eternity.”
Only when desire to have God save you will I give you the answer to your questions.
Right now your heart is stone cold and I’m just wasting my time in sharing with you anything. Meanwhile, if you truly are seeking God, then I’d just ask him to help you with your unbelief.
Any of you dare to ask Him that? Mark, you wonder why God didn’t tell you this Himself? He did! He speaks to us through the bible! But you’ve already rejected Him because you didn’t accept His Word!
I’ve enjoyed my dialogue with you as this was quite educational for me. I’ll be dropping by here every now and then to see if any of you do change your minds and accept Christ as your Lord and Savior!
Later!
@carolotta:
I dared to, and I’m guessing most other ex-Christians have too. I asked God to help me with doubt for years. Guess what? Silence.
If God exists, he does a hell of a job covering it up.
@markbey:
Yes. My wife, for one. And I get emails quite regularly from people who are doubting and saying the blog has helped them think things through better (that is, worse for their religion).
Ooops! My apologies Mark as I was reading through things rather quickly.
But to answer your question about God answering you, it appears you were quite impatient and wanted God to answer you on YOUR terms and YOUR time.
God at times have us to go through things to build our character. You didn’t get the answers you wanted when you wanted so you bailed out on God.
He does provide answers the answers…we must be willing to believe that He’ll deliver and wait on His perfect timing.
“3 Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.” Romans 5:3-5
Oh gracious, please forgive me for all the typos…I”m doing way too many things at once!
“Any of you dare to ask Him that? Mark, you wonder why God didn’t tell you this Himself? He did! He speaks to us through the bible!”
mark: Which bible the catholic bible, the king james or one of the other books claiming to be the true christian word of god.
“Only when desire to have God save you will I give you the answer to your questions.”
mark: If you were not willing to dialogue with people who disagree with you why even comment at all. This site is an atheist website. If your so confident in your beliefs why are you and human and a sinner (according to your bible) witholding gods truth from me. What about the people who dont comment on this blog but read it. what if one of them was in deep thought about the very question that I asked you.
So again, I will ask if your god loves man, then why does he allow lies to exist that if believed will lead to one burning in hell again? I think this is a fundamental question.
Also you didnt answer this question please do I am interested in what you may say.
Please tell what ill-intent I had if I beg your god for answers, not money, women or even happiness.
P.S Carlota what you are doing dosent suprise this always happens when you ask christians (or other religious folks) simple obvious question. You christians have had thousands of years to ponder these questions.
Lastly if you wont answer my previous questions then please answer this one: What exactly have you said or could say that would distinguish your beiliefs over that of people who believe in different religions?
Markbey: “If you were not willing to dialogue with people who disagree with you why even comment at all. This site is an atheist website. If your so confident in your beliefs why are you and human and a sinner (according to your bible) witholding gods truth from me. What about the people who dont comment on this blog but read it. what if one of them was in deep thought about the very question that I asked you.”
Okay, you got me. As long as the conversation doesn’t become redundant and/or argumentative, I’ll guess I’ll hang around as long as I can.
I was trying to go see Benjamin Button. Guess he can wait til later!
Answers coming up.
Markbey: “So again, I will ask if your god loves man, then why does he allow lies to exist that if believed will lead to one burning in hell again? I think this is a fundamental question.
I can only answer for myself here Mark. I am thankful that God has allowed other systems of beliefs to exist because it has done nothing but increase my own faith in Him. Even my discussions with you all here help sharpen my own faith. You better believe my prayer before these type of discussions is for my faith to never be diminished but strengthened and to always know the real truth.
I’m also thankful that other types of beliefs exist because it only shows that God has allowed us a free will. He could have easily made all of us robots and believing automatically the way He wants us to believe.
God loves us but we are without excuse to reject Him. I’m sure you are familiar with the following verses:
Mark I shared those scriptures because of your anger in God condemning those who may not have the bible in their nations. Even if they never heard of Jesus, by His very creation we are to believe that He exists. No one is without excuse!
Markbey:“if you wont answer my previous questions then please answer this one: What exactly have you said or could say that would distinguish your beiliefs over that of people who believe in different religions?”
Easy answer: Jesus Christ! Christianity is the only religion in the world where their Savior/leader/prophet is alive with an empty tomb as proof! Christ died and resurrected for all of mankind, so Christianity technically is supposed to be the religion of the entire world. But of course, not everyone believes in Christ and has come up with their own concoction of belief systems.
Jesus IS the only way to God as only He has the authority to say so!
Carlotta, I have an issue with something you said:
“That was the first thing you did unpleasing to our Lord because the word says it is evil to seek after signs: ”
What of the story of Doubting Thomas? He was given a sign, his request was answered. His request was answered -in excess- to what most ask for when asking for a sign.
God used to interact with the world regularly, though that was when he was vengeful and killing babies, sending plagues, and raining fire. He has since calmed down, and hasn’t done anything that Christianity has found to be noteworthy within the past 500 years. Probably longer.
One of the biggest problems that I have with most Christians, when debating the Bible with them, is how they invariably cherry pick. Granted, they pretty much HAVE to cherry pick because if you take the word of the Bible in it’s entirety, there are entirely too many contradictions and short comings. That, and almost no Christians are really willing to persue the full truth of Bible. They like to shave, they realize that despite what the Bible says slavery is a bad thing, and eating shrimp is hardly worth going to hell about. Oh, and all Christians that I’ve met absolutely LOVE to judge others. Even though Judgment should be reserved for God, most Christians seem to get a real rise out of deciding who will be going to Hell.
The Bible cannot be trusted.
Because the Bible was written by man (inspired by God).
Because the Bible was interpreted by man (no divine intervention in interpretation).
Because it is impossible to live your life -exactly- as the Bible tells you to, because the Bible contradicts itself. There are situations where the Bible says “do this and be damned”, and then later on it says “do this and be blessed”.
Have Faith. This atheist doesn’t condemn people for that. But base your Faith upon God, and not Man, and how Man tells you to worship. Your relationship with God should be with God himself, not a Church, and not a Book written by Man. Pray to know Jesus as he was, and not as he was recorded. I am confident that seeking truth from your faith will be answered by visions from God.
Oh, and Lord of Numa, I enjoyed reading your long comment about what caused you to Wake Up.
“Only when desire to have God save you will I give you the answer to your questions.”
I’m so glad you have the divine power to see into the hearts of men. or maybe your just full of yourself and retarded.
What other super powers do you have?
Lord of Numa, I completely overlooked your comment (the long one) until it was mentioned by Sock! I’ve been carelessly rushing through comments…correct me please when needed!
I read it and it left me with one question after you said the following:
You then decided later to become an atheist. After you came to the conclusion that you were believing in “blind faith” why didn’t you research to see if the things you were being taught were true or not?
The Berean Christians in the bible were praised for checking everything out that was taught to them:
Further proof that God doesn’t want us to check out of our brains to believe in Him!
Sunny, I felt that hanging around a bunch of folks who truly don’t care about God was just a waste of my time. That’s why I felt it was easier to communicate if you all truly were searching.
But I had a change of heart once Mark called me out for “hitting and running.”
So, ignore that statement I made. I’m giving it a try right now.
“God used to interact with the world regularly, though that was when he was vengeful and killing babies, sending plagues, and raining fire. He has since calmed down, and hasn’t done anything that Christianity has found to be noteworthy within the past 500 years. Probably longer.”
What the sightings of him on Cheese Sammiches, and Dirty Windows, doesn’t count?
I would return the money only to avoid prosecution. Where this is a decimal point error, I would only be stealing money from the bank itself, and for whatever reason, I don’t feel any particular pangs of conscience when I imagine doing so. Maybe because this is (much?) less than 1% of any of the major banks’ operating costs (and they all have lousy service). If I still had a local credit union account and they had made the mistake, I would return the money.
If I just found some strange amount of money deposited into my account, I would guess that it was some other human being’s money deposited to the wrong account number and I would return that.
I would contact the bank, give them back the money and ask if there is a reward for being so nice and honest and hope to walk away with 1.000 reward as a thank you ;)
If not.. *shrug*
Just point out their incompetence again and read up on the banks policies and see if it’s nessecary to change to another bank.
Carlotta:
“Meanwhile, if you truly are seeking God, then I’d just ask him to help you with your unbelief.”
I did. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and watched it burn to the ground.
What’s that you say? Oh. I must not have really wanted to believe.
Which is convenient, isn’t it?
Unlike a lot of the other commentors here, I find your statements somewhat insulting. You essentially accuse us of having been insincere in our original faiths.
I grew up a good Catholic boy, a true believer. But upon mature examination of the evidence available I have concluded that gods do not exist. The Christian god is no more valid than the Olympian pantheon, and rather less valid than Stonehenge. Which at least made a decent calendar.
The sole difference between the Roman gods and this newer fad is the printing press. Otherwise it’d still be a fringe element of Judaism.
No one’s ever been able to produce evidence for a god. In the end it boils down to the groovy way you feel when you think about him. That and a 2,000-year-old book of poorly translated Aramaic shepherd’s tales.
@metro: “In the end it boils down to the groovy way you feel when you think about him. ”
And since the same exact feeling is reported among UFO abductees, scientologists, and people who clap their hands while exclaiming, “I *do* believe in fairies!”, I think we’re well within our rights to treat such testimony as suspect. At best.
So you already know the truth and you’re unwilling to accept any other explanations. Why are you trying to talk to atheists again?
An empty tomb is not proof that he is alive. It is proof only that the tomb is empty, and that fact alone is no evidence of how it got that way.
Grave robbing has been an occupation and past time of the less sentimental among our species for thousands of years at least, and it still is. And the more notorious the person, the greater the reward from robbing the tomb. I can think of a dozen reasons why people would want to open the tomb of a preacher with both avid devotees and avid detractors who ended up being tortured to death, and not one of them involves the man coming back from the dead.
Not sure that you intended it this way, but referring to a belief system as a “concoction” is pretty dismissive. Especially given that your own belief system is a concoction of Judaism, various Zoroastrian derivatives, and a few gnostic sects for good measure.
Alas, your book is not the oldest and only arguably the most read (I would argue that the Baghavad Gita and some Buddhist sutras have been more read). The New Testament accounts, to the extent that I know anything about them, seem to contradict each other, and they’re completely different from the Old Testament, which seems to dictate not only a different code of ethics, but a completely different theology.
Your book is not evidence of anything except the fact that sometimes people like to write stuff. I’m curious, though: do you believe that the Bible is 100% factually accurate? I.e. are you an inerrantist? Do you believe the earth is only a few thousand years old?
But he also said that Any prayer made earnestly by a true believer will be granted, with no caveats about what prayers are appropriate.
–Mark 11:24
–Matthew 17:20
–Matthew 18:19
–Matthew 21:21
–John 14:14
You’ve said that you believe that these passages were written by eyewitnesses who actually heard Jesus say these things, and wrote them down accurately. So, do you think that Jesus was lying about this, or merely ignorant of how prayer works? Don’t you think it’s rather arrogant of you to think that you know more about how prayer works than Jesus did?
You then decided later to become an atheist. After you came to the conclusion that you were believing in “blind faith” why didn’t you research to see if the things you were being taught were true or not?
Oh, please. Are you intentionally ignoring what you’re told? From my experience, at least, I doubt that any believer who begins to struggle with their religion wakes up one morning, decides to become an atheist, labels all prior beliefs as “blind faith” and fails to investigate them.
The point is that once some doubts have crept in and a person starts to sincerely investigate what the Bible says, the person finds *so many* internal contradictions that it throws the whole thing into doubt. Eventually, one is left with two choices: choose to believe blindly despite knowing that it’s probably all false, or choose to accept that one simply can’t trust what the Bible says. If the Bible can’t be trusted, then what of Christianity is left….?
Further investigation will show a person who is honestly searching (as opposed to a person who is desperate to find *some* belief to fill some aching hole inside) that no other religion has any greater claim to “truth” and that there’s simply no evidence of any deity running the world or our lives.
You claim that unbelievers cannot find the truth in the Bible because we read without that longing to believe. The truth is that a person who reads *with* that longing to believe is simply far more willing to rationalize away all of the problems, contradictions, and horrors of the Bible stories, in order to cling to a set of comforting beliefs….
Carlotta, I wonder if you are searching by coming here.
I recommend that you study this history of the regions mentioned in the bible. We have a great deal of it. Writings from other cultures, evidence from archeology, some very useful stuff. If that contradicted your bible, which would you go with? Would the bible trump history, or would history trump the bible? If history agreed with the bible I assume you would take that as support, or confirmation.. but what if history disagreed? Before I give you any specifics I thought I’d put that out on the table, have you take a firm position.
If the bible contradicted itself, how would an honest person make sense of those contradictions? This is just an ‘if’ question at the moment, because I want you again to take a firm position on how to deal with those situations before we get into the specific contradictions. Don’t just say there are no contradictions, take a position on how to deal with contradictions if they are found. The question of whether there are contradictions can come after you take a stand on how to deal with them.
If it came down to defending your belief system, however you chose to do so, would other belief systems be justified in using the same methods you do? That means if you appeal to holy writings, other religions can make similar claims. If a christian miracle is to be seen as proof of something, then should another religion’s miracles not be seen as proof also? If the holy writings of your religion can be shown to be based on an earlier religion which you do not agree with, then is your religion true? Can something based on a false foundation possibly be true?
I ask all these questions to set you up for a trap. Each of these issues is a huge problem for believers. Most believers I discuss these things with decline the opportunity to take firm positions. They realize that by taking those positions they lose the chance to take contrary positions at a later time.
I’m not trying to be a jerk about this, but having been through similar conversations many times I realize that very few believers are truly willing to take firm positions. They don’t like to concede points because that casts doubt on the entire sloppily built structure of their beliefs.
@wintermute – for the sake of avoiding a whole lot of writing that’s already on the Internet, please refer to this link for the response to your bible verses you mentioned above: “Does prayer get you anything?”
Those of you who want to refute anything I’ve added on this site, this website has a response to it all. This is a site that I am pretty much in agreement with: http://www.tektonics.org/
Most of have your mind already made up but for anyone reading our posts who truly want to investigate Christianity, that website is loaded!
Like I’ve said earlier, I originally wanted to find out why many of you who professed to know Christ are no longer claiming so. What I’ve found is that you are confusing “sincerity” with a true spiritual rebirth. I don’t see anyone here on this board as having been a true born-again Christian. Don’t confuse sincerely doing “good works” with receiving Christ into your life.
Sincerity is not salvation.
So with that, I’m outta here because now I’m truly heading into a circle of arguments that have no ending. You all believe strongly what you believe and so do I.
Thanks again for the discussion!
And don’t forget to check out that link because every single argument that you all have presented is mentioned on that site!
What I’ve found is that you are confusing “sincerity” with a true spiritual rebirth. I don’t see anyone here on this board as having been a true born-again Christian.
You think *you* can judge whether any of us were as truly “born again” as you? Or as anyone else? Not very humble, are you?
Carlotta, you claim that everyone is insincere, stand by no words of your own and duck out of the conversation instead of explaining yourself.
How typical, how sad.
@Carlotta:
So having ignored the many, many objections raised to your blind certainty, you say this:
To translate:
“I won’t talk to you here. Go look at this site because it explains my viewpoint without me actually having to do any heavy lifting–like actual discussion.”
You just joined the ranks of the drive-by trolls.
You’re insincere and insulting. Goodbye, and may your god go with you.
I would return the money immediately because respect for reality is the cornerstone of my life and one of the huge things which really shone out for me when I truly embraced my atheism.
Inherent in reality is truth and one expression of truth is honesty. Hell (if you’ll pardon the expression), I don’t even cheat the tax man!
My son found three dollars wrapped in a bank receipt while driving the elderly and handicapped people around. It was just laying by the side of the street. He took it to the bank that was on the receipt and told the teller he had found it. He told her if someone had to withdraw three bucks then they must of really needed it, he said he didn’t need it, he had three bucks in his own pocket.
He knew before going there that the teller would say, “god will bless you for this.”
But first she said, ” three bucks, but what if it would of been fifty thousand?” Kind of like she was saying, “hell, I’d keep it.”
She took his name and workplace and said, “god will reward you for this!”
He was thinking….ugh.
Those seem like very weak attempts to get around the fact that you know more about prayer than Jesus did. In a lot of those cases obviously he’s saying he’ll grant any prayer and it takes some complicated abuse of the context to claim otherwise.
My favourite part is where it claims that because Herod was a liar, Jesus must have been as well.
Has it never occurred to you that maybe Jesus was telling the literal truth, but those people who claim otherwise simply aren’t Christians? Maybe you should examine your faith before you claim that Jesus was either ignorant of spiritual matters, or deliberately lied about them.
It’s an aside, but to quote Chief Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes: I like paying taxes; with them I buy civilisation.
Doesn’t the bible say something about wealth? Something about camels and needles? how, then, is this a gift from God?
I would definitely give it back, no matter how much more they gave me… $0.01 or $1mil, doesn’t matter, because I know that they would figure it out eventually. They quit their jobs and moved to Florida?! What idiots!
I’d probably keep it – frankly the banks deserve it. I’m from Iceland, by the way. I don’t know if you’ve followed the situation here (or if you even know where Iceland is) but the banks, once privatized, turned into monsters. 20% interest rates, enormous salaries for directors, investing pensions in unstable companies based on nepotism and corruption…
So now the government has taken them over again, keeping all debts intact, but refusing to reimburse savings (except for a small percentage) even though said savings were supposed to be completely safe.
The law being flawed, this is tolerated. However, should the bank make an error like the one in the above example. it would be held reliable.
Perhaps my reasoning is flawed, but when my family and friends have lost all their money due to unscrupulous bastards padding their own pockets, lost their jobs because said bastards drove the economy into the ground and are still expected to pay their mortgages at a 20% interest…I’m sort of fine with taking a bit back.
I would honestly return it to the bank, both for self-interest and because it’s the right thing. True story: a friend and I once found a wallet in an airport parking lot with $200 cash and a STACK of credit cards. There were also business cards showing that this wallet belonged to a minister in Kansas City. Even forgetting the credit cards, my friend and I (both of us atheists) could have taken the cash with zero risk of getting caught. I looked up the minister online, left him a voicemail saying I was sending it, and FedExed it, making sure to leave my name, number and email. Though I didn’t do it for a reward, it’s interesting that I never heard a word.
I found one wallet before that. The only afiliation of any kind in the wallet was an NRA card. That one I returned in person, and the owner of the wallet insisted on giving me all the cash in it (only $7 but he insisted).