A number of you asked Mathurine questions about Islam from an ex-Muslim perspective. In a recent post, she answers questions like:
- Do a lot of everyday people actually read the Koran?
- How does the average Muslim view other religious viewpoints?
- If a male martyr receives 72 female virgins in heaven upon death my question is, what does a female martyr receive?
- Do all Muslims, moderate and extremist, have the belief that the Qur’an is the actual word of god and not just “inspired” by him?
- How fervent is the belief in Islam that the punishment for apostasy should be exercised (as I know the penalty is death)?
- Why are Muslims are not satisfied with the Qur’an, and instead augment it with other sources?
- Is it considerably harder for Muslims to leave the faith than it is for Christians?
Her answers are worth reading.
I read her post. Those responses were fascinating and enlightening.
Islam is an intriguing religion.
It seems as if Islam does even more to insulate itself from reason and change that even some of the more fundalmentalist strains of Christianity. Scary, but quite interesting! Thanks for the link.
Excellent and straightforward.
Oh, yeah!
I know this article is not of this topic but since this blog is generally about science vs. spirituality I attached this link to some sites that deal with spiritual issues that sometimes challenge science.
http://www.ianlawton.com/links.htm
Great post.
I’d like to share a recent experience with Islamic evangelism. Not too long ago, I took up learning Arabic, and I wanted to buy an Arabic-English dictionary. There’s a European book store with a bunch of foreign language periodicals and reference books near my house, and I had been meaning to check it out, so it seemed like the perfect excuse to look around inside. I wasn’t sure if they would have an Arabic dictionary, but it was worth a try.
I asked the woman at the counter if they had the one, and she said while they had carried them before, they didn’t anymore, and that I should head up the street to a mosque.
Why would they have a dictionary at a mosque? I asked. She said that they could point me in the direction of an Arabic bookstore, and then looked down her nose at me as if I had asked a stupid question. I think she was French.
Anyway, I trekked over to this mosque, and as I approached the door, a group of men in white robes flooded out around me, yammering in Arabic, and looking at me like they had seen a ghost. Everyone was bustling about, putting their shoes back on, so I figured a prayer service must have just gotten out. One man approached me and asked what I wanted, and I asked him if he knew where an Arabic bookstore was. I was already very intimidated, and felt like a fool for showing up at a mosque to ask Gee, hyuk, you fellers look lak yer A-rab types, do y’all know where there’s a bookstore? But the man was smiling from ear to ear, and told me to hold on a second while he went to get his preacher.
Before I could protest, he dove back into the stream of people exiting the mosque, and disappeared.
Shit, I thought to myself, what have I gotten myself into?
Shortly thereafter, a man in a dark robe and bare feet showed up at the door, foaming-at-the-mouth eager to help me. He told me to come in, and that he would give me a book. I wanted to say no thanks, but I was obviously no longer in charge of the situation. I asked him if I had to take off my shoes, and he said no, not as long as I didn’t intend to enter the prayer area.
With great trepidation, I stepped over the threshold, and peered around inside. It seemed like a normal-enough building. I followed him around, and down a spiral staircase, to the basement where I could not help but stare in awe at what I saw.
All four walls were books. Gorgeous, leather-bound, time-worn volumes. But what stunned me the most was that beginning on one end of the shelf, drawn along the spines of all the books, was Arabic script in gold leaf. It seemed like something out of a Terry Goodkind novel.
Anyway, he quickly handed me some evangelism materials — the Islamic equivalent of the Watchtower magazine, and a copy of the Qur’an, both in English. I asked if I could have an Arabic copy of the Qur’an, I was trying after all, to learn Arabic. No, he said, I might read it on the toilet, or something*.
He showed me up, and back out the door, and told me to come back in three days. I told him I would, and I was on my way.
I never did come back, but the point of is, they are very eager to convert you. But not in the scary way you might think: they are genuinely kind and welcoming.
*I never read the Qur’an on the toilet, but I did read it drunk a few times. My housemates and I would knock a few back and open it to a random passage, then try to read it in the most ominous sounding voice we could. That’s probably against the rules.
“I am curious why Muslims are not satisfied with the Qur’an, and instead augment it with other sources. ”
Maybe the better question would be why don’t modern Christians “augment” the bible. Muslims have their Hadith, Jews have their Rabbinical wisdom like the Talmud, but what do Christians have?
!. Fun reading her explanations – all true in my experience. Most of them parallel the development of xian theology (xian theologians and later theology being more esoteric to the draftees than the hadith’s).
2. The story of her apostatism would have been much more interesting than her obviously factual replies to ‘eh’ questions.
3. Is that *really* her picture? Brains *AND* beauty? Shit, I’M IN LOVE AGAIN!!!
Thank you Daniel for linking that. I’d like to do another Q&A with some other ex-Muslim friends in the future. I feel like I rushed this one. Ch’an, I wasn’t sure that my personal story was appropriate in that forum. Also, I have to be very careful about which details I let out. I am anonymous for the usual reasons. :( Also, it’s not my blog; I don’t want to steal her thunder.
Jonathon – the form of the hadith that says ‘China’ is either da’eef (weak) or forged. There is a hadith that basically says to seek knowledge your whole life. There are also hadith that tell us not to read the Jewish or Christian scriptures, and many, many fatawa that tell us we cannot study specific subjects. The hadith are and always will be in the hands of the ulemaa, who will tell us peons how to understand them, or that another hadith abrogates it, or whatever. It’s really tiring. On the one hand “Seek knowledge!” on the other hand, they are telling you that to study this or that is haraam, or bidaa (deviance), or you’re wasting your time and it isn’t pleasing to Big Al, or whatever.
This video inspired my question about the virgins. If you haven’t seen it, it is one of the funniest videos I’ve ever seen :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt_tv7t79WY&feature=related
I echo Teleprompter. I found the link helpful.
The phrase “rational spirituality” is an oxymoron.
When will you people learn that prefixing and suffixing sciency-sounding words to mythical religious nonsense and new-age woo does nothing to legitimize said mythical religious nonsense and new-age woo?
Hahahaha! Ian Lawton. What a nut. You people will just believe anything you read, won’t you? Well, as long as it fits in with your preconceived biases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Lawton
After obtaining a degree in Economics at University College, London, Lawton qualified as a chartered accountant before working in a variety of IT-related sales and consultancy organisations. During this time he was primarily known for his passion for racing motorcycles and then cars. Then in his mid-thirties he forsook the commercial world to become a full-time writer and researcher.
Economist turned accountant turned IT salesman turned motorcycle racer turned biblical/spirituality authority. You just can’t make this stuff up folks! LOL!
I agree; it seems that I have developed a morbid fascination. It is scary, though.
The best argument for the inanity of one’s own religion is usually all the other religions…
I disagree. In the Qur’an we are told that knowledge is a wonderful thing and that the pursuit of knowledge is part of how people learn to understand more about God. There is even a hadith where the Prophet tells his followers that they should seek knowledge everywhere, even if it means going as far away as China (an unthinkably long voyage in 7th century (CE) Arabia.)
As in the Christian world, there are people who are “culturally” religious but not actually interested in religion at all. These are the ones who only “read” the Bible or Qur’an when in church or at the mosque. There are also those who have placed a higher value on the ability to recite the Qur’an in Arabic rather than actually understanding it.
Islam is a deeply fascinating religion and has a rich history well-worth studying. The more I study about Islam, read the Qur’an, the Sirah of Muhammad, the hadiths, etc. the more I realize that your average Muslim doesn’t know much about his own religion. Christians are the same way.
Most of what we in the West think that we “know” about Islam is false. We don’t understand it well, and so when terrorists and jihadists invoke Islam or the name of God to justify their actions, we believe that they represent the real Islam. They don’t; they are in violation of Islam and clearly haven’t read the Qur’an. If they did, then they would know that killing one person is like killing the entire world. They would know that indiscriminate killing of civilians, noncombatants, women, children, the elderly, etc. is positively forbidden and has no sanction in the Qur’an or the example of Muhammad.
Before the time of al-Ghazali, who “closed the gates” of ijtihad (use of reason to understand Islamic ideas and beliefs), the Islamic world flourished and became the leading scientifically-advanced culture in the world. The loss of ijtihad (at least in part) led to the decline of Islamic civilization and ended their “Golden Age” of science, medicine and intellectual advancement.
Yeah, I guess we get used to our own stories and characters so they don’t seem that out of the question. They have always been in the background of our lives. I don’t know if Jon Loftus came up with the phrase “outsider test of faith” but that is a good concept with which to consider wrt religions.
thats a really cool story. it’s sad that most faiths aren’t seen as kind or welcoming. thats how it should be and it isn’t.
Kind of depends on the religion. Not all religions actively seek converts, and may even do what they can to discourage people from converting (certain sects of Judaism come to mind). Saying that religions “should be” like X seems too make too many assumptions about what they actually want…
Isn’t this the whole “law” thing though? Both Muslims and Jews augment their scripture to clarify practical matters of their law. Christianity doesn’t have the same requirement (e. g. there is no Christian legal system in the sense that there are Jewish courts and Shariah courts. )
“Muslims have their Hadith, Jews have their Rabbinical wisdom like the Talmud, but what do Christians have?”
That’s one of the key distinctions between catholics and protestants. The former have their traditions and consider them to have authority. The latter have “sola scriptura”, the belief that the bible and only the bible has ultimate authority.
yeah your right. i suppose i was projecting my personal issue with so many churches. thanks for pointing that out.
In one sense, I agree with you. I don’t remember whether it is in the Quran or hadith but IIRC, Muhammad does tell Muslims to gain knowledge even if it takes them all the way to China – or something similar to that. (I find if I am in discussion with a Muslim and say “the Chinese are doing such and such”, that Muslim pays much closer attention. LOL.)
Unfortunately however, this doesn’t make the apostasy laws, the religious discrimination laws, etc. disappear from the teachings of Islam.
It’s a stock picture. :)
The apostasy laws are not based on the Qur’an nor on the teachings of Muhammad.
The Qur’an repeats over and over again that “truth has been made clear from error” and that people are responsible only to God as to whether they believe or don’t believe.
Another verse also declares that the punishment for an apostate from Islam is to come in the afterlife, not in the actual lifetime of the apostate.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Qur.27anic_reference
Much of what is considered “Islam” or “Islamic” is a cultural remnant or innovation that has no actual basis in the Qur’an nor in the sunnah of Muhammad.
Your wiki link shows that the apostasy laws are based on a hadith, which are considered authoritative in Islam. And further, one can read the link to see that many Islamic scholars have accepted death for apostates for centuries.
Jonathon – Are you a Quran only Muslim?
Here is a exact quote from the Hadith
Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
Narrated ‘Abdullah:
Allah’s Apostle said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.”