The Top 30 Atheist/Agnostic/Skeptic Blogs

There are alot of atheist/agnostic/skeptical blogs out there. And being one of them, I tend to see and read a lot of others. Here are some that have caught my attention over my internet travels.

The Top 5

  1. Pharyngula
  2. Friendly Atheist
  3. Cynical-C
  4. Debunking Christianity
  5. Atheist Media Blog

The Best of the Rest

(in alphabetical order)

  1. Atheist Eve
  2. Atheist Movies
  3. Atheist Revolution
  4. Bad Astronomy
  5. Bad Science
  6. By the Book Comics
  7. Daylight Atheism
  8. Derren Brown’s Blog
  9. Dwindling in Unbelief
  10. Edward Current
  11. Evangelical Realism
  12. Greta Christina’s Blog
  13. Julia Sweeney
  14. Mid-West Humanists
  15. Negligible Knowledge Base
  16. Religion Comics
  17. Richard Dawkins
  18. SkepChick
  19. Skeptic Blog
  20. Skeptico
  21. Slacktivist
  22. Panda’s Thumb
  23. Primordial Blog
  24. Why Won’t God Heal Amputees Blog
  25. William Lobdell

Did I miss your favorite? If so, add it in the comments!

Update: I realize not all these bloggers are atheists or agnostics. I also included blogs I consider “skeptical.” The original title was a bit misleading in that regard.

* * *

Above Bloggers: Feel free to use this graphic on your blog if you want:

Named one of the top Atheist / Agnostic Blogs by Unreasonable Faith

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  • http://sisyphusfragment.wordpress.com Sisyphus Fragment

    IMHO, Atheist Revolution should be in the top 5. Vjack has a lot of really good stuff on there.

    • Piratica

      May i Ask what is the big up and up about the Atheist revolution, i am trying to find information and was wondering if someone would give me a little info.

    • Ben Schettler

      If you are looking to read the other side why not try http://www.dsoat.wordpress.com. Some reasonable arguments for faith in God.

      • Ty

        Love the assumption that atheists are not already very well versed in the counter arguments.

        Most atheists are former people of faith, you know. And, no, there really aren’t any reasonable arguments for faith.

        But thanks for stopping by!

        • http://www.salt-romblonwriter.blogspot.com Casiano Mayor

          There are also former atheists who went back to religion. They use reason as life’s rudder but faith as compass.

        • Qua

          In fact, in my experience, people who are atheists most often know much more about the religion and the bible than it’s actual followers, hence why they became atheists!

    • anonymous

      Jesus loves you all and wants to come in your life. He died on the cross for your sins. His blood will wash way them all away. Confess with your mouth and believe with your heart. Tell to come in to your heart and accept Him as your Lord and Saviour. He said that I’am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to God the Father but its only by Him (John 14:6).

      • UrsaMinor

        How do you know this is true?

  • http://unreasonablefaith.com Daniel Florien

    Yeah, it was hard to decide on the top 5. But I put the ones I find most interesting there.

  • Valis

    Hey, you left out Unreasonable Faith! Oh wait…

    But seriously, there’s also Enemy Combatant Trailmix Society (blog by Tiana, She Of The Casey Luskin Incident). I also enjoy The Urban Farmhouse, and Letters From Abroad (an ex-mo blog). Stupid Evil Bastard is also quite good. There are so many…

  • http://progressatallcost.blogspot.com/ markbey

    Thank you for this list Daniel. Daniel I am waiting for someone ( a believer0 to come out of the closest and publicly state on this blog, that an argument from one of posters or you (Daniel) made them think and reconsider how silly and retarded thier beliefs are.

    I am waiting for a deconversion.

  • http://avertyoureye.blogspot.com/ Teleprompter

    I second the recommendation for Atheist Revolution. It really is a top quality blog.

    I also really like to read:

    The Invisible Pink Unicorn
    http://www.theipu.com/

    Jesus and Mo
    http://www.jesusandmo.net/

    One Minion’s Opinion
    http://1minionsopinion.wordpress.com/

    Thanks for the list, Daniel! I will be sure to check out some of those which I had not previously encountered.

  • Brian
  • Elemenope

    …made them think and reconsider how silly and retarded their beliefs are.

    I can’t imagine that this would help the process along.

  • http://whyareyousofat.wordpress.com McBloggenstein

    Julia Sweeny! The androgynous Pat?

    Yes, thanks for the list! Sometimes I get interested in other atheist blogs, but then I realize I don’t have time to check them all, so I stop myself from adding them to my reader because mostly I would just prefer to read UF when I have the time!

    I will add these though:

    http://www.atheistbus.org.uk/
    (The “Idea” girl behind the bus ads)

    http://atheistblogger.com/
    http://tinyfrog.wordpress.com/
    http://topicagnostic.com/
    http://de-conversion.com/

    …And one of my faves:

    http://stuffgodhates.com/

  • http://thebeattitude.com theBEattitude

    Thanks for the list. Several here I haven’t seen.

    A second vote for “Atheist Revolution”. One of my top 5.

    Another good one not on the list:
    http://www.anatheist.net/

  • intelekshual

    Great list, a lot here I haven’t read yet. Thanks for posting this! I’d second Enemy Combatant, but that’s just because it’s mine.

  • http://progressatallcost.blogspot.com/ markbey

    “…made them think and reconsider how silly and retarded their beliefs are. ”

    elemenope:I can’t imagine that this would help the process along.

    mark: Its a lot more civilized and kinder than believing and expressing the idea that billions of humans and specifically children are going to burn in hell for eternity for not believing in Jesus when they were never ever exposed to the concept of a Jesus in the first place.

    If the holy rollers cant stand the heat well then they should stop making exclusive claims they cant even provide a decent argument for. Until them I dont give a f#ck about thier feelings in the larger scheme of things.

    • Solomon

      Markbey,
      Billions of children are not going to hell, they are going to heaven, and thats not what Jesus says,its Allah the Almighty says.Don’t you worry.Childrens are like newborns, they have no sins.
      You should get all your doubts from the right source.I can help you on that.

      • http://proudatheists.wordpress.com/ Mark Pogue

        Oh…you’re over here now, forcing your fairy tales upon people.

  • http://foreverinhell.blogspot.com Personal Failure

    I suppose pimping my own blog would be bad form? No, really, I’m not in that league, but I thought vjack should’ve been in the top 5.

  • jordan
  • Elemenope

    If the holy rollers cant stand the heat well then they should stop making exclusive claims they cant even provide a decent argument for. Until them I dont give a f#ck about thier feelings in the larger scheme of things.

    That’s fine and all, if that’s how you feel, but I’m just pointing out that expressing that feeling in that way works at cross-purposes with your stated desire to see a “de-conversion”. After all, calling people names makes them less likely, not more, to take what you have to say seriously and consider the possible superiority of your position.

    In my experience it just leads to retrenchment.

  • http://whyareyousofat.wordpress.com McBloggenstein

    Personal Failure, I like your quote:

    “I’m an atheist and I have cookies! Delicious cookies”

  • Jabster

    UK centric but not exclusively:

    http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk

    Expect to see the counter to the atheist buses appearing soon.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/05/atheist-bus-christian-response

  • http://normdoering.blogspot.com/ Norman Doering

    What makes one atheist blog better than another?

    Why does it catch your attention?

  • http://progressatallcost.blogspot.com/ markbey

    “After all, calling people names makes them less likely, not more, to take what you have to say seriously and consider the possible superiority of your position.

    In my experience it just leads to retrenchment.”

    mark: This is true but thier are times when I dont care because the holy rollers get to make any justification for thier beliefs no matter how redundant or ridicilous the reasons. Then when you ask then simple questions such as

    why would a just and loving god give instructions on how to sell ones daughter into slavery, the holy rollers act as if they cant read and give an opinion.

    bible quote: “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)”

    Or when I asked a Catholic on this board if they believed in exorcisms instead of answering my question I was offered reading material about Catholism it took several comments before the dude would answer a simple question.

    When debating christians I find this behavior all the time for instance when you whty is the bible so sexist the holy rollers ignore these questions which I consider dishones.

    However you are right you catch more flies with honey the vinegar.

    • Shawn Abbott

      most catholics don’t read the bible they let their priest translate for them, so he can’t answer a question like that. As for me yes I do believe in exorcism. As for getting sombody to give up their faith here on this blog, don’t get to excited if it happens they will have a professing Christian not an true Christian. I understand that makes no sence to you. Seeing how you think there is no God so true and not true is the same thing. When you are a Christian there is an accual phisical change that happens to you we will not lose our faith at that point because we can understand the truth. Its not something that you can read about and understand. Hope that helps.

      • trj

        No, that doesn’t help at all. The things you mention, confusing as they are, are merely your own opinion. Other Christians will disagree with you.

        • Shawn Abbott

          just because you say you are a Christian does not me that you are, and that is not an opinion. I can say I am a doctor, but that doesnt make it true. Sorry for the confusion.

          • Jabster

            “just because you say you are a Christian does not me that you are, and that is not an opinion.”

            I didn’t realise that you had access to the true knowledge of Christianity that has been denied to so many other so called Christians … you need to get out there and tell them the errors of the ways.

            • Shawn Abbott

              I do

            • Shawn Abbott

              everybody has access to true knowledge of Christ.

            • Jabster

              Marvelous … I therefore declare that you are not a true Christian and there is nothing you can do or say to prove that my position is incorrect.

            • Shawn Abbott

              I don’t have any need to prove myself a Christian to anybody but God. Once you have given you life up to the Lord, there is no need to try to prove to the world the you are different. You will be different. You will hear my beliefs, and it will be foolishness to you. Just to humor the question, why am I not a true Christian?

            • Jabster

              It doesn’t matter why I, and God, know you’re not a true Christian because what I will say will be foolishness to you. You have failed in you chance to prove youself to God and so are on your way to hell.

            • Shawn Abbott

              you have failed to accept the free gift of salvation. So who is going to hell? funny thing to say since you dont believe in hell. I know where Im going.

            • Jabster

              Nope, you think you know where you are going but I, and God, know the real truth. You’re not a true Christian however much you claim that you are unless you can prove otherwise, which you can’t …

            • Shawn Abbott

              Thats so cute. The good old “I know you are but what am I ” argument

            • Jabster

              Nope, you have no argument as you’ve stated something that is purely an opinion as a fact; now prove you’re a real Christian — ok you can’t can you any more that you can prove someone else isn’t a true Christian but this didn’t stop you arrogantly stating that this isn’t an opinion bit a fact.

            • Sunny Day

              “Thats so cute. The good old “I know you are but what am I ” argument”

              Hilarity ensues. LOL he didn’t realize that’s exactly what HE was doing.

              Thanks Jabster!

            • Jabster

              @Sunny Day

              First off what happened to my spelling in that post!

              I just find it extremely arrogant how someone can claim to know something as a fact when they have no basis on which to base it. Take a similar example … I go and watch football and would class myself as fan but I wouldn’t also class others that think they are fans as ‘true’ fans. The important points; firstly I readily admit this is just an opinion and secondly I don’t think you’re going to be tortured for eternity if you didn’t get it right, well unless you support Spurs of course.

            • Shawn Abbott

              A “Christian” that doesnt believe that Christ died so they dont have to die in thier sins is not a follower of Christ. Its a simple concept and a fact. I talked to a woman today that was in that very paradox for years of her life. She went to a church her whole life but didnt realize that she was a sinner because nobody told her she was. They preached the its a bed of roses just be good and everything will be ok. Till she realized that it wasnt ok she was not a true Christian and she would be the first on to tell you she wasnt. She was still in her sin because she had not recieved the gift of forgivness. Just because you dont believe what I am saying doesnt mean it is not fact.

              Its like your football game, if you were told your whole life that that game is called football as you watched on tv and nobody ever told you different. Then you go to a game one day and sombody explains to you that the game you have been watching all this time is accually baseball. The fact of the game being baseball doesnt change because you thought it was football they were the true fans not you, you didnt even realise what the game was untill it was explained to you.

              Also there is not a lot of discription of hell. All I know is there will be burning and knashing of teeth, and lake of fire. You can not think that its real the same as you can stand in the street an not think that a car will hit you. The car is still real and its coming whether or not you think its is.

            • Jabster

              “Also there is not a lot of discription of hell. All I know is there will be burning and knashing of teeth, and lake of fire.”

              … *laughter* and what makes you so sure that you know what hell is like or if it exists. Your arrogance really does know no limits does it?

            • Shawn Abbott

              I didnt say I knew what is was like all I know is what I read in the word. Why does that make me arrogant. I take no credit for this that is given to me.

            • Jabster

              “I take no credit for this that is given to me.” … or just make up as you go along and then claim as fact. That’s what makes you arrogant whether you admit it or not. You dismiss other mumbo-jumbo yet smugly claim to know the truth i.e. your own mumbo-jumbo. How else would you describe you behaviour although I’m sure you can find something in your big book of myths which makes it ok …

            • Shawn Abbott

              well then go ahead and explain what it is in this world that isnt “mumbo jumbo.

            • Shawn Abbott

              is saying there is no God truth or opinion?

            • Jabster

              “well then go ahead and explain what it is in this world that isnt “mumbo jumbo.”

              Which misses the point completely … why do you believe that your version of mumbo-jumbo is fact when you dismiss other forms of mumbo-jumbo. You have absolutely nothing to back up your version of truth which many other faiths (which contradict yours) can not also claim. If I say the Earth revolves around the Sun and someone else claims that the Sun revolves around the Earth which one is mumbo-jumbo and how do we decide? If believer A claims X and believer B claims not X then on what basis do we decide?

              “is saying there is no God truth or opinion?”

              Is saying there is no truth or opinion? You arrogantly dismiss many other religions and even Christians that have different views from yourself. Why is your version of “truth” so special – hint, it isn’t you just like to think that it is — does that sound arrogant to you?

            • Sunny Day

              “First off what happened to my spelling in that post!”

              Speeling? What Speling? I’m spelling blind so I didn’t notice.

            • Sunny Day

              “Its like your football game, if you were told your whole life that that game is called football as you watched on tv and nobody ever told you different. Then you go to a game one day and sombody explains to you that the game you have been watching all this time is accually baseball.”

              Your analogy is deeply flawed. Let me fix it for you:
              After the person explains that its called Baseball with a different scoring system, some other guy turns to you and explains that the game is ACTUALLY called Basketball with yet another different scoring system, then a lady speaks up and claims a different scoring system and it’s called Tennis. When asked to provide evidence of what they claim to be true, they all eagerly offer up their own self published self referencing texts. Each of which proclaims itself to be the one true game and warning of supremely dire consequences if you call/score it by any other name.

              Deciding to dig into this corundum by yourself you discover the the various names all draw their roots from a much earlier group that called it Baseketball. That group in turn grew from a still earlier group which called it Cabbageball. Reading further you find that thousands of groups exist each of which have either collapsed and died out, or have combined and mixed traits but all claimed or still claim to be the one true game, all with the same fanciful claims all with the same lack of evidence.

            • Sunny Day

              “is saying there is no God truth or opinion?”

              “No God” is the default position. It’s up to you to provide evidence for your fantastic claims.

              To make it eaiser for you to understand, “No God” is the truth, prove me wrong.

            • Shawn Abbott

              jab you didnt answer my question. you just repeated yourself about how arrogant I am. I did answer the first question though in regards to why my truth is special. ( a savior ) and no its not arrogant if its just coming from the bible they are not my ideas

              sunny
              Cabbageball LOL
              nice

              it was just right before you messed with it ( is there no right or wrong ) Somebody is usually right and the other is wrong. There have been lots of people that have be laughed at, jailed, stoned, hung, crucified. only to find out at a later date they were right all along. “What do you mean the earth goes around the sun throw him in jail”

              sunny
              can I just follow jabsters lead and say simply that is your opinion. Oh wait I hope Im not being arrogant again. To me it is more fantastic to think that life just sprung up out of the primortial bowl of chicken and stars soup, add time ( how long I dont know they keep changing there minds ) and kablooie look at all the people and the animals wow that sure is a lot of stuff mercy me we should all bow down to Darwin.
              excuse me while I go and look for an intermediary species.

            • Sunny Day

              “can I just follow jabsters lead and say simply that is your opinion. ”

              Logic, you’re doing it wrong.

            • Sunny Day

              Now we’re back to the “The good old “I know you are but what am I ” argument you puerilely attempted to use earlier.

            • Jabster

              @Shawn

              “I did answer the first question though in regards to why my truth is special. ( a savior ) and no its not arrogant if its just coming from the bible they are not my ideas”

              Yes it is highly arrogant* as other religions can claim that there religions are special for reasons X, Y and Z. I’ve clearly stated this before but you choose to ignore. Once you’ve managed to grasp this really basic concept, then you will see why you are arrogant. From you posts so far I don’t hold out much hope of this.

              “To me it is more fantastic to think that life just sprung up out of the primortial bowl of chicken and stars soup, add time ( how long I dont know they keep changing there minds ) and kablooie look at all the people and the animals wow that sure is a lot of stuff mercy me we should all bow down to Darwin.”

              Translation: “I don’t understand so man in the sky must have done it.” Here’s a quick question, how many of the many, many things that have been attributed to god have actually turned out to be god? Hint: the answer is a whole number less than one.

              Do you also believe that everything else you don’t understand (I imagine this is quite a few things) is untrue?

              “excuse me while I go and look for an intermediary species.”

              Define an intermediary species as I expect your grasp of evolution is as shaky as you ability to logically answer a question.

              * Not to mention a really laughable answer. I mean honestly is the best answer you can come up with. It would have been just as convincing if yo had said “it’s because the Bible begins with the letter B”.

            • Sunny Day

              “( how long I dont know they keep changing there minds ) ”

              Yeah its much better to have 1 story and stick to it no matter how many other facts show up to prove you wrong.

              Just like a 4 year old child claiming that they didn’t eat any cookies from a now empty cookie jar.

            • Jabster

              “Yeah its much better to have 1 story and stick to it no matter how many other facts show up to prove you wrong.”

              See that’s the problem with “them” they have to do ridiculous things like re-evaluate new evidence and then change what they thought they knew. How much easier it must be when your only answer is magic man did it.

          • claidheamh mor

            Sunny Day is right. You are obligated to provide substantiation and evidence for your claims. You can’t use the particular mythology you chose to believe to explain and justify itself.

            • Shawn Abbott

              I dont really feel obligated to substantiat any of my claims, because I dont consider it mythology I consider the source God himself. I also consider creation itself evidence of a creator this earth and the universe. Nobody has an excuse for not believing in a creator, his signature is written on creation itself. Just walk outside and take a deep breath, and look around, there is your substantiation.

            • Sunny Day

              You talk like you expect people to take you seriously, that’s funny.

            • Shawn Abbott

              I will take that as a compliment, it just foolishness to you.

            • Jabster

              @Sunny

              Shawn’s answers now seem to moved even more into the rather ridiculous area of assuming that if he states completely unsubstantiated “facts” then they must be true. I actually wonder how people can been even sightly convinced but arguments such as “, his signature is written on creation itself.” Wouldn’t you want to ask what does this signature look like and why does this mean that it was your particular god out of the many thousands that have ‘existed’ that didit?

            • Sunny Day

              Its a common trait of someone who was raised to believe like a robot and hasn’t given their beliefs the slightest effort of consideration. Rather like a freshman college student who thinks knowledge comes from memorizing a book and regurgitating facts upon command.

            • Jabster

              I can’t even begin to understand how he thought a reasonable answer to why have you dismissed other religions is because mine has a saviour. Just what sort of answer is that? I wonder just how many beleivers recognise that the rules they apply to dismiss other relgions (or even parts of their own religion) they don’t apply to their own beliefs.

            • Shawn Abbott

              so I tell you my proof and you say thats not proof. wow are you blind to whats around you. You still havent told me how you can see whats around you and not think there is a God. I would like to know what you believe.

              what religion would you like me to make a case against since you dont accept that mine has a savior. I really would like to convince you but I dont think you would accept anything short of God himself coming down and showing you how real he is.

            • Jabster

              “so I tell you my proof and you say thats not proof. wow are you blind to whats around you. You still havent told me how you can see whats around you and not think there is a God. I would like to know what you believe.”

              *laughter* … do you actually know what the word proof means; really get a dictionary and look up the meaning as it’s certainly not what you think it is. You claimed that the signature of god (or some such mumbo-jumbo) was all around us. Please supply evidence that this is true and also how this leads to your version of god being correct and the many thousands of other gods being incorrect.

              “what religion would you like me to make a case against since you dont accept that mine has a savior.”

              *more laughter* … the question is why do you dismiss other mumbo-jumbo religions yet accept yours as the “truth”. Why is your version of the “truth” any different for other religions version of the “truth”. You really have no answer to this do you?

              “I really would like to convince you but I dont think you would accept anything short of God himself coming down and showing you how real he is.”

              Nope, just even a scrap of evidence for your god and it’s your version of god we are talking about here isn’t it not just any old god. Of course if you just wish to admit that your whole basis for belief is based in blind faith, which it obviously is, then just come out and say it and stop the rather pathetic and arrogant hand waving that you have so far demonstrated. If you had evidence for you god you would have posted it. That fact that you haven’t tells me all I need to know.

            • Francesc

              “God himself coming down and showing you how real he is”
              That would be a good way, yes. According to the bible he did that before. Are we speaking about your God or someone else’s?

            • Shawn Abbott

              Proof: evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.

              It makes me so happy that I can cause you to laugh so much.

              Dont get me wrong I love to answer your questions, but do you think you could at least answer one yourself.

              It is amazing how proof shown is proof denied. If I showed you a painting, would you say there is no painter? There is enough proof in one blade of grass to prove a creator. You look at it and state “there is no God” Somebody tells you that life comes from nothing and blindly you say “there is no God” It makes no difference that when the theory was written a cell was thought to be not much more that goo “there is no God” Now we can see inside and realize how complex it really is “there is no God” We see men so desperate to make it work that they fake ape men from teeth and single bones, just making up dates to fit there needs “there is no God” It doesnt matter that DNA profreads itself guarding against mutation “there is no God” the chimp is only 3 % away from us they say, it doesnt matter that that 3 % contains such a massive amout of information that even if you had 1 mutation per generation it would take to long for it to work with how old they say the earth is, still “there is no God”

              I tell you about my savior and you say “all Gods are the same” Look up Tyre, It wont matter that it was fortold 200 years before it happend, where? The Bible “all Gods are the same” God tells the truth, not men living on the moon dressing like quakers (brigham young prophacy from morman non god) “all Gods are the same” The bible is writen by many people over the span of many year from many countries all speaking of the same God, not a single person easily deceaved “all Gods are the same”

              Yet I’m still hear happy in my God given bliss that I dont have to blindly stumble through life hoping I dont fall at the feet of a living God when I die. still I hear “there is no God”

            • Jabster

              “If I showed you a painting, would you say there is no painter? There is enough proof in one blade of grass to prove a creator.”

              Have you ever met a painter, have you ever seen a painter? Have you ever seen someone who makes grass? So your proof is nothing of the sort. Hint: proof is not claiming godditit because you don’t understand something.

              “it doesnt matter that that 3 % contains such a massive amout of information that even if you had 1 mutation per generation it would take to long for it to work with how old they say the earth is,”

              Please provide evidence that this is true.

              “I tell you about my savior and you say “all Gods are the same” …”

              No I asked why you version of mumbo-jumbo is correct and other versions of mumbo-jumbo are incorrect and you answer (if you can call it that) was because your religion has a saviour. Please explain why you think this answers the question.

              “Yet I’m still hear happy in my God given bliss that I dont have to blindly stumble through life hoping I dont fall at the feet of a living God when I die.”

              Wishful thinking doesn’t make something true.

              “still I hear “there is no God””

              Well provide some evidence for you god’s existence then … you’ve claimed more than once that you have evidence but have posted nothing of the sort. Someone could use much the same “proofs” as you have to prove that [insert name of god here] exists but you don’t believe in other gods do you, so why not?

            • rA

              The problem with analogies to paintings or buildings or whatever is that we know where paintings and buildings come from. You are suggesting that the Universe must have a designer, that it must have been intentionally created, there is no other possibility.

              Unfortunately, this is not only an argument from ignorance / argument from lack of imagination, there is another explanation of how you might get complexity from simplicity without design. It’s called “evolution by natural selection”. Modern evolutionary synthesis is fantastically detailed. There are no competing theories. Evolution definitely happened. Creation definitely did not. This is confirmed by evidence to a similar degree that “the Sun is bigger than the Earth” is confirmed. It’s a fact.

            • Jabster

              “You are suggesting that the Universe must have a designer, …”

              Not just any old designer but his version of a designer, although he seems totally incapable of explaining why any of this is true.

            • rA

              Yes, good point: even if a blade of grass were evidence of a designer (it’s not, but even if it were), nothing about that suggests the designer is the one described in the Bible, who has a lot of specific attributes (including caring about humanity) upon which the grass blade has no comment.

            • Francesc

              “It doesnt matter that DNA profreads itself guarding against mutation ”

              From wikipedia: “The incidence of Down syndrome is estimated at one per 800 to one per 1000 births.[52] In 2006, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated the rate as one per 733 live births in the United States (5429 new cases per year).[53] Approximately 95% of these are trisomy 21. Down syndrome occurs in all ethnic groups and among all economic classes”

              1 per 1000 is an incredible high rate for an impossible thing, isn’t it? Down’s syndrome is only one particular change in our DNA (“is a chromosomal disorder caused by the presence of all or part of an extra 21st chromosome”)

            • Jabster

              @rA

              This is where I find the arrogance rears its head. Not only is there no proof for a creator type god, the poster has a complete inability to believe that anyone could think that the only creator type god is his version of god.

              @Francesc

              “1 per 1000 is an incredible high rate for an impossible thing, isn’t it?”

              That must mean you’re interpreting the evidence incorrectly. The poster just has a different worldview from yours and you’re persecuting him if you don’t agree that his version of mumbo-jumbo is incorrect.

            • Francesc

              I’m not. Facts and reality are persecuting him. They are so atheistic-biased…

            • rodneyAnonymous

              Reality has a liberal bias.

            • Jabster

              I presume by Shawn’s lack of posts he’s gone away to check his “evidence” and “proofs”. I always wonder how someone can get into a situation where he obviously believes anything that supports his own view and will not question it.

              Does it really make any difference to him when the glaring errors in his knowledge are pointed out … probably not but you can hope.

            • Shawn Abbott

              Havent gone away to check proofs, just havent had time to post. I will be back tommorow. Have a good day.

            • Jabster

              As you are sure that evolution is wrong (although why you think that means your version of mumbo-jumbo is the truth we can leave to another day) it’s seems somewhat strange that you don’t have at least some references to hand. Some of figures you gave where specific so you must remember where they came from.

            • Shawn Abbott

              I have already gave several examples of why Christianity is different you just dont seem to be listening or accepting them. Sorry I dont have the study info for the chimp DNA thing I read it 3 years ago and dont have a copy just disregard it. We could go around for years like this, and not get anywere. Just some questions for you since you seem not to like to answer my questions to you. How did evolution start? How does the giraffe evolve? did you look up Tyre yet? benificial mutations? order from disorder?

              If you point out glaring errors I will not use them anymore.
              good point with the grass blade I have never seen anybody make a blade of grass. Have you seen anybody make one species into another?

              Sorry I never qualified my statements on evolution. I am not disputing microevolution, only macro. Micro can and is observed no argument here. Macro is where my problem is.

              thanks in advance for answering the questions.

            • rA

              Have you seen anybody make one species into another?

              No. I’m not the one who thinks anybody “makes” species. “Species” is an artificial distinction. What is a species? “Animals that can’t interbreed” is okay, but the lines are fuzzy. (Lions and tigers, horses and donkeys, and many other closely-related animal species can interbreed.) “Species” and taxonomy in general classify how closely-related two plants or animals are. (And the weird hybrid fertility behavior is fairly well understood.)

              Think of what humans have done to, say, dogs, which are all descended from divergent wolves less than 10,000 years ago. Many common fruits and vegetables are modified by humans. Artificial selection is powerful. But natural selection has vastly more time than that to work, and on a deeper level.

              I am not disputing microevolution, only macro

              “Macroevolution” is microevolution, over a much longer period of time, an incomprehensible ocean of time. Scientists do not distinguish between micro and macro, it is a made-up distinction. If you concede micro, you accept macro.

            • Jabster

              “I have already gave several examples of why Christianity is different you just dont seem to be listening or accepting them”

              I asked why I should believe your version of mumbo-jumbo other other version of mumbo-jumbo; how do you think that pointing out that Christianity has different beliefs to other religions answers this question. Are you seriously claiming that Christianity is true because of this?

              “Sorry I dont have the study info for the chimp DNA thing I read it 3 years ago and dont have a copy just disregard it.”

              *laughter* I think I’ll call bollox on that. Is lying for Jesus ok in your book?

              How many of your other arguments are completely “true” but you just can’t find a copy of this really important information that would change the way we view life on earth?

              ” How did evolution start? How does the giraffe evolve? did you look up Tyre yet? benificial mutations? order from disorder?”

              You can use google can’t you or pop over to talkorigins to get a basic understanding of evolution and as you mentioned micro and macro evolution in your “argument” then you need to.

              More importantly where is your evidence for creationism? Hint: trying to “dis-prove” evolution by misrepresenting science or plain lying does not prove creationism.

              “Sorry I never qualified my statements on evolution. I am not disputing microevolution, only macro. Micro can and is observed no argument here. Macro is where my problem is.”

              Please define the terms micro and macro evolution and in particular how you tell one from the other.

            • Shawn Abbott

              I wasnt lying its real sorry to disapoint.

              A dog is a dog is a dog is a donkey I dont think so.

              Did I tell you to go to the bible and read for yourself? Just answer them. I have answered yours.

              I retract my advance thanks.

            • Jabster

              “I wasnt lying its real sorry to disapoint.”

              Then please present this ground breaking evidence that you have conveniently forgotten it which report it is.

              “A dog is a dog is a dog is a donkey I dont think so.”

              As stated before just because you’re incapable of comprehending something doesn’t mean it’s not true.

              From the last post:

              - I asked why I should believe your version of mumbo-jumbo other other version of mumbo-jumbo; how do you think that pointing out that Christianity has different beliefs to other religions answers this question.

              - More importantly where is your evidence for creationism?

              - Please define the terms micro and macro evolution and in particular how you tell one from the other.

              In conclusion you have shown yourself to be arrogant, ignorant, evasive and now a liar — not exactly a role model for Jesus is it but you may be Ray Comfort’s love child.

            • Shawn Abbott

              So I take it your not going to answer any of my questions.

            • Jabster

              “So I take it your not going to answer any of my questions.”

              yet more laughter … you believe in creationism so present evidence for it. Not that I expect you to as you have already shown yourself to be a arrogant, ignorant, evasive and a liar. Isn’t the last one against the big 10 so means under your version of life you’re going to hell?

            • Shawn Abbott

              since I first posted I answered all of your questions. You not one. I asked quite a few. If your dont want to thats ok just say so.

              And yes I surely would be going to hell if not for the work done on the cross.

            • Jabster

              “since I first posted I answered all of your questions.”

              Please “re-post” your answers to the following:

              - I asked why I should believe your version of mumbo-jumbo other other version of mumbo-jumbo; how do you think that pointing out that Christianity has different beliefs to other religions answers this question.

              - More importantly where is your evidence for creationism?

              - Please define the terms micro and macro evolution and in particular how you tell one from the other.

              - “it doesnt matter that that 3 % contains such a massive amout of information that even if you had 1 mutation per generation it would take to long for it to work with how old they say the earth is,”

              Please provide evidence that this is true.

              - Define an intermediary species as I expect your grasp of evolution is as shaky as you ability to logically answer a question.

              You’re basically and out and out liar* aren’t you as you know full well that you haven’t answered all my question but prefer to say that you have.

            • Shawn Abbott

              you didnt like my answers. and you give no answers at all.

            • Jabster

              “you didnt like my answers. and you give no answers at all.”

              I’ll ask you again to “re-post” the answers to te questions that you claimed to have already answered.

            • Shawn Abbott

              I already told you to throw the chimp DNA out because I couldnt find the study, you seem to be hopelessly attatched to this one.

              you just dont like the rest of my answers.

              Go ahead answer away. try it you might have some fun with it. : )

            • Sunny Day

              Lying for Jesus is perfectly ok. Jesus said it himself!

              I read it in a book somewhere, about three years ago, on the internet, while I was traveling to the moon, on my way to Jupiter.

            • Sunny Day

              He means those “answers” where he talked about that thing that one time, the one with the stuff, and the group that was talking about those guys.

              Jesus, Jabster, does he need to spell it out for you! Get with the program. Its all about fantastic claims, no evidence, and never ever backing up your words with honesty.

            • Shawn Abbott

              Yea thats the one, see sunny knows what Im talking about. You know the one. Maybe you can answer the questions sunny.

            • Sunny Day

              OK.

              Speaking for Shawn Abbott:
              I am just here to lie. I’m a smoldering sack of shit, unworthy to carry the hopelessly clogged diseased spermicidal sponges contained within me. It truly was a divinely inspired miracle allowing me a sole lightning flash of wit to rip its way through my maggot riddled putrescent brain and direct Sunny Day to finally speak the truth for me.

              To answer your question, Christianity’s mumbo jumbo is true because it’s christian. This is backed up by all the prophesies that were found to be fulfilled after jesus and all potential witnesses to his life were conveniently dead and unable to dispute the new stories which sprang up a the benefit of local wisemen, shaman and priests.

              If you were a TRUE christian you would immediately understand this.

              The Evidence for creationism is all around us. Satan has gotten hold of you and you will be unable to comprehend the truthyness of what I say until you ask the invisible man jesus into your heart. That you don’t really mean it does not matter. Its the asking for it that and the repetition and outward appearance that you project to others that matters. Eventually the lies that you tell about your faith will drop away and become true. Another Miracle! Jesus can transform lies into truth!

              There is no evolution: God Created them all and Satan contrives to change the creatures and plant the false “evidence” that supports the lie of evolution.

              There are the questions to your answers. I hope you enjoyed them as much as I have writing them. Now I must go back to playing erotic games with my burlap sack of rats and the broken glass. This keeps the Logic of Science and Satan from stealing me away from jebus.

            • Shawn Abbott

              Wow sunny I didnt realize you could put things so clear for me I am blown away with your eloquent use of language.

              To bad you answered the wrong questions.

              Oh wait you probably did see the right questions but didnt want to answer them, just like Jabster. Hmmm should have saw that coming.

              By the way where can I get my own bag of rats and broken glass, sounds fun. Does it come with a tinfoil hat as well to keep satan out of your head?

            • Shawn Abbott

              Questions:
              How did evolution start?
              How does the giraffe evolve?
              did you look up Tyre yet?
              benificial mutations?
              order from disorder?

            • Jabster

              @Shawn Abbot

              “Oh wait you probably did see the right questions but didnt want to answer them, just like Jabster.”

              Why do you purist in thinking that if you somehow question ToE it means that a creator god exists and in particular your creator god exists? I’ve seen this argument many times before, it goes something like this:

              Creationist Person (CP): What about X that means that evolution is wrong?
              Rational Person (RP): Er no that’s wrong, have a look that this.
              CP: Ok, but what about Y that definitely means that evolution is wrong?
              Rational Person (RP): Er no that’s wrong also, have a look that this.
              CP: Ok, but what about Z (which I’ve just pulled out my arse) that definitely means that evolution is wrong.
              RP: Erm … off the top of my head I don’t know the answer to that one.
              CP: See I told you evolution was wrong and I’m right and now I’ve proved it.

              Present your evidence for your version of a creator god or just admit that your have no evidence.

              p.s. If you want to have answers to your questions just pop over to talk origins as I’ve already stated.

            • Jabster

              @Sunny Day

              LOL … that is basically the so called answers that he has presented and he wonders why he’s not taken seriously — personally I think it’s because he’s a out and out idiot*. He really can’t seem to get two basic facts through his thick skull. Firstly why we should believe his version of mumbo-jumbo and not dismiss it, as he has all other religions except his own; secondly asking stupid questions that creationists like to ask about evolution does not prove creationism and ley alone his version of mumbo-jumbo. Then again when you have zero evidence for your idea then I suppose you have to try something different. I’m just what for him to say but it’s only a theory.

              * = he’ll probably run back to his fellow godbotters claiming that he was insulted because we couldn’t answer his questions and we knew he was right but we just wanted to deny god so we can live an immoral life etc. bloody etc.

            • Jabster

              @Shawn Abbot

              One last question that I forgot about, are you Ray Comfort’s lover child?

            • Sunny Day

              “To bad you answered the wrong questions.”

              You had your chance you ignorant fuckwit. Since you were too cowardly to plainly answer questions Jabster asked of you, instead you mewled, sniveled and simpered finally asking me to answer Jabster’s questions in your stead.

              Oh now I understand, it seems your writing ability ranks right down there with your reading comprehension skill set. You actually meant me to answer your imbecilic questions.

              “How did evolution start?” Abiogenesis, Just a theory, its still being worked on, and has more supporting evidence than “godidit”

              “How does the giraffe evolve?” From other Giraffe-like critters.

              “did you look up Tyre yet?” Did you tell us why and what we’re supposed to be searching?

              “benificial mutations?” The recent ability of humans to digest Lactose is just one of many. You can even look up “beneficial Mutations”

              “order from disorder?” Snowflake from water vapor.

            • Jabster

              @Sunny Day

              “You had your chance you ignorant fuckwit.”

              I started off with that view but I’m know leaning towards the just plain stupid not ignorant. I’m still having trouble getting over the seriousness of his answer as to why is his version of mumbo-jumbo is correct and others are wrong. My religion is true because it’s different to other religions — can anyone see the flaw in this argument?

            • Jabster

              Questions:
              How did evolution start? — it didn’t Allah created all things as is.
              How does the giraffe evolve? — it didn’t Allah created all things as is.
              did you look up Tyre yet? — use I need some news ones for my bike but Allah will provide for all true believers.
              benificial mutations? — N/A Allah created all things as is.
              order from disorder? — N/A Allah created all things as is.

              Any further questions?

            • Sunny Day

              You’re right. You can’t fix stupid.

            • Shawn Abbott

              Wow. why all the hostility. Am I stupid just because I believe in God or because I question the validity of evolution. Oh wait im stupid and ignorant.

              hey after all this I really got some answers. It was like pulling teeth with you.

              I didnt go into all of this thinking I was going to disprove evolution, that would have been arrogant. I dont want to do that.

              “How did evolution start?” Its funny quite a while ago you wanted me to say that I didnt know why I believe in God.
              It seems there is a bit a faith involved here as well.

              Other Giraffe like critters, I expected more from such an articulate person.

              Tyre, yes jabster asked me for a shred of evidence so I gave him a shred. The conquering of Tyre for fortold 200 years before it happend in the bible. Backed up by historical fact. Just look in the bible, its on your shelf right between mother goose, and the book of mormon

              nice mutation

              I really like the snowflake good job.

              by the way what is with all the name calling. Do you find it affective to get your point accross?

            • Jabster

              “Oh wait im stupid and ignorant.”

              bingo … at last you have realised something. Well done.

              “… that would have been arrogant. I dont want to do that.”

              Yes you are and yes you did.

              “Tyre, yes jabster asked me for a shred of evidence so I gave him a shred.”

              Please look up the definition of evidence as it’s not what you think it is.

              “by the way what is with all the name calling.”

              The problem is that arrogance and stupidity are a rather bad combination in a person. Add to that the fact that you’ve lied (more than once) and refuse to answer questions just makes it worse.

              p.s. Still no evidence for creationism then or maybe you’ve realised that just making stuff is likely to make you look dishonest?

            • Jabster

              Just so this quote and it reminded me of you …

              “Debates with creationists are a waste of time, except for the small benefit of entertaining evolutionists with an amusing spectacle, and the larger detriment of giving liars for Jesus an opportunity to piously announce their support for rational discussion…despite the fact that they don’t offer rational discussion.”

            • Shawn Abbott

              You know its funny that jabster and sunny, are so convinced of their own mental superiority that are not even willing to look into the other side, willing to learn something. Instead they say things like the magic man did it, or you’re stupid and arrogant.

              You’re arrogant yourself

              You give nobody credit for any idea that conflicts with your own.
              If somebody believes in God they must be stupid.

              Well since I am lucky just figure out how to open the door in the morning. I’m going to let the Ph. Ds talk to you for a bit.

              Sunny the snowflake
              Sorry but that doesn’t really work. Since we were talking about life coming from nothing.

              “The distinction between living and non living structures is in their complexity which is represented by the high information content found in living organisms. No experiment has produced anything like this complexity. Crystals are not a viable explanation… A crystal has a highly ordered structure but low intelligence or information content.”
              Dean Overman, A case against accident and self organization pp 77-78

              “In crystallization, the material crystallizing goes to a lower energy level, to a more probable state, In fact, a crystal exhibits no activity whatsoever.”
              Duane Gish (Ph.D. biochemistry, University of California)

              “The second law of classical thermodynamics postulates an overall increase in entropy…Crystallization occurs because it leads to the lowest energy state and to the most stable arrangement of atoms or molecules under given conditions. Crystallization leads to simple, very uniform repeating structures, which are inert.”
              Peter T. Mora, “Crystallization and the second law,”

              Now as far as RAs comment regarding macro and micro evolution, sorry you are wrong you don’t automatically accept on with the other.

              “But there is no evidence that DNA mutations can provide the sorts of variation needed for evolution. The sorts of variations which can contribute to Darwinian evolution, however involve thing like bone structure or body plan. There is no evidence for beneficial mutations at the level of macroevolution, but there is also no evidence at the level of what is commonly regarded as microevolution”.
              Jonathan Wells (Ph.D. molecular biology U. California at Berkeley)

              Oh wait that also goes with the whole mutation of lactose tolerance, wow two birds with one stone Sweet!

              Oh yea there was the whole biogenesis mumbo jumbo

              “The proposition that genetic programmers of higher organisms, consisting of something close to a thousand million bits of information, equivalent to the sequence of letters in a small library of one thousand volumes, containing in encoded form countless thousands of intricate algorithms controlling specifying and ordering the growth and development of billions of cell into the form of a complex organism, were composed by purely random process is simply an affront to reason. But to the Darwinist, the idea is accepted without a ripple of doubt, the paradigm takes precedence!”
              Michael Denton (Ph. D. molecular biology)

              “All of us who study the origin of life find that the more we look into it, the more we feel it is too complex to have evolved anywhere. We all believe as an article of FAITH that life evolved from dead matter on this planet. It is just that its complexity is so great, it is hard for us to imagine that it did.
              Harold Urey (Nobel Prize laureate)

              Did he say faith?

              “The experimental evidence should be the most telling of all in favor of a theory. Unfortunately, there is no direct experimental evidence of large-scale evolution. Of course there is the fossil evidence, but at best the fossils only show that there have been changes in living organisms in the past. They don’t even tell us that the later forms of life descended from the earlier forms.”
              Dr. Lee Spetner (Ph.D. in physics from MIT)

              My favorite

              “Among All the mutations that have been studied, there aren’t any known, clear, examples of a mutation that has added information.”
              Dr. Lee Spetner (Ph.D. in physics from MIT)

              Seems to me that there is a bit a faith involved in your mumbo jumbo as well.

              I don’t find this a waist of time at all I really like to hear your ideas and thoughts.
              I would like to buy you lunch and talk.

              Sorry I was so resistant to give you this earlier. I just like to see where you are coming from.

            • Jabster

              @Shawn Abott

              Just how many times do I have to say something to get it through your thick skull … present evidence for creationism and if you can’t then just admit that there is no evidence.

              Oh and this is worth a repeat …

              “Creationist Person (CP): What about X that means that evolution is wrong?
              Rational Person (RP): Er no that’s wrong, have a look that this.
              CP: Ok, but what about Y that definitely means that evolution is wrong?
              Rational Person (RP): Er no that’s wrong also, have a look that this.
              CP: Ok, but what about Z (which I’ve just pulled out my arse) that definitely means that evolution is wrong.
              RP: Erm … off the top of my head I don’t know the answer to that one.
              CP: See I told you evolution was wrong and I’m right and now I’ve proved it.”

            • Jabster

              I’ll take that as a no then for you posting evidence …

            • Shawn Abbott

              Darwin you have built a very nice looking car, one problem it doesnt run.

              Jabster the problem you have is the evidence that you use to support your case, in reality supports mine.
              of coarse you will never agree to that. That would mean that the world view you accept as truth has no basis in reality. You wont go there no matter what I say.

              I have stated my evidence already.

              You want me to say that I believe there is a God purely on faith.

              But that would be wrong.

              Given the evidence that I have at my disposal, biblical, historical, prophetic, creation, and scientific, I have faith that there is a God!

              You take that same evidence and have faith that there is no God.

              One is wrong and one is right.
              As I said before, for your sake you better be sure.

              If I am right I suppose sadly I will see you on judgement day.

            • Jabster

              “I have stated my evidence already.”

              No you haven’t — the painter one is just plan stupid — just admit that you have no evidence because let’s face it if you did you would post it. Oh and why do you keep blatantly lying. Is it ok if you lie for Jesus?

              “One is wrong and one is right.”

              As I keep stating (but you’re just to stupid to understand) evolution being wrong does not lead to creationism being correct let alone you version of it. This again shows you complete arrogance that you believe this is the case.

              “As I said before, for your sake you better be sure.”

              Pascal’s wager how very sweet and utterly stupid. Please look up why only stupid people (you are obviously included in this , in case you where wondering) use this as an argument.

              So basically you have reverted to lying because you have no evidence and still persist with the arrogance of dismissing all other mumbo-jumbo as impossible to be true yet not applying the same criteria to your own version of mumbo-jumbo. You’re basically a complete an utter idiot aren’t you and that I do have evidence for unlike you and your version of creationsim.

            • Shawn Abbott

              I feel bad for you jabster. Your world view is clouding your judgement of reality. I know that statement will probably give you a good laugh. I have already posted all the evidence that is needed to trust in God.
              You go about your life screaming for proof. But you wont accept the proof that is right in front of your face. Your mock Jesus on the cross, telling him to come down if he is God. It is your sin that nailed him to the cross, he stays there for your sake.
              You say you seek truth, Then pray for understanding and proof and then read the gospels, God will provide the understanding that you need.

              All the best to you and your family. I will pray for you.

            • Sunny Day

              Hey, Shawn the lying imbecile s back!

              You claim to have already given the evidence but when asked for it you can’t muster up enough self respect to even cut and paste it into a new post. Nope, you’d rather dodge duck and evade. So ashamed of your previous words, instead of calling attention to them, you’d rather hope people would believe the empty lie, “I have already posted all the evidence…” .

              We don’t mock your make-believe faerie tale. We mock the ignorant fuckwits that pretend the faerie tale is real and then lie and cry in their pitiful attempts to gather more believers in it’s hollow lies.

              Oh, its our fault that an infinitely powerful, smart and good force created everything knowing full well that it would have to condemn us all and then sacrifice Itself to Itself for the violations of the “laws” It created in the first damm place. That’s hilarious.

              “Then pray for understanding and proof and then read the gospels”

              Funny you have to pray for understanding before you can comprehend the “proof”. Nice to see you finally stop lying admit that the proof you are offering is only credible to someone who is already a believer.

              While you are at it please send some more telepathic messages of submission to the time traveliing zombie that is its own father before it kills us all for the 2nd time.

            • Jabster

              ” Your world view is clouding your judgement of reality.”

              Oh please here comes the arrogance again unless you believe a valid world view is to ignore evidence when it slaps you in the face. Also are all other version of religious mumbo-jumbo equally valid world views and if so why are they not true — this is yet again another question that you can’t answer isn’t it?

              “I have already posted all the evidence that is needed to trust in God.”

              If you’re blind stupid or want to believe in your version of mumbo-jumbo then yes I would agree otherwise I would say you’re just lying, again. Do all Christians lie as much as you?

              ” It is your sin that nailed him to the cross, he stays there for your sake.”

              Well the first point is just arrogance (yet again) and the second part is arrogance on Jesus’ part. Did I ask him for this, er no … but in return I must bow down before god or I while burn in hell. What a lovely little world view you have.

              “You say you seek truth, Then pray for understanding and proof and then read the gospels, God will provide the understanding that you need.”

              So basically if I believe in your mumbo-jumbo then I will see the evidence for you mumbo-jumbo. You really do speak a complete load of bollocks don’t you?

              “All the best to you and your family. I will pray for you.”

              Translation: I have no evidence even though I have both claimed and been asked for multiple times so I’ll try and take the moral high ground. I’m sure this works and the idiots you hang around with but not here. Maybe that’s why you think that Pascal’s wager is a solid argument and not the complete rubbish that it is.

              In conclusion you’re just an arrogant prat who can’t even answer the must basic questions. The worse thing is you’re going to lie to your equally idiotic friends about how those nasty little non-believers couldn’t answer you questions, wouldn’t accept your ‘solid’ evidence for god and how they called you names instead.

            • Jabster

              @Sunny Day

              What I don’t understand about Shawn is how stupid must he be to believe that his lies wouldn’t be spotted. He sounds like a five year child hoping that saying no I didn’t over and over again convince will someone. I presume he’s just so used to pulling this crap with his friends and them lapping it up so he never learnt, or forgot to learn, the art of actaully conversing with someone. That’s a bit of a horrible thought, he’s probably though of as a bit of an intellectual in his circle of friends … well I suppose intelligence is relative.

            • Sunny Day

              “I presume he’s just so used to pulling this crap with his friends and them lapping it up so he never learnt, or forgot to learn, the art of actaully conversing with someone.”

              That’s a bit unkind. His friends could also consider him to be a shallow ignorant twit just as much as we do.

            • Shawn Abbott

              The other religions are not valid because they are not the word of God we already discused this long ago. I remember posting it and its not that hard to just scroll up and refresh you apparently short short term memory. If you however want me to dispute the many thousands of valid religions as you call them, from zeus to Mohammad. Right you and I both know that I dont have the time to do this. Pick a few and I will (proseed with the mocking and calling for proof)

              biblical, historical, prophetic, creation, and scientific (evidence as stated many times before) If you want me to cut and paste from above, too bad you can scrool up and read for yourself, sorry for you short term memory problem.

              I never said you had to bieleve anything just have an open mind. It doesnt matter if you pray that you dont believe but would like to see proof, just do it open minded. You wont understand untill you do, sorry.

              Oh you say you never asked him to save you. really? So you would just let the blind man walk right off the cliff since he didnt ask for help. give it a rest.

              You say I ignore evidence when it slaps me in the face. You grab on to any non evidence so you can try to make something from nothing. No amount of hand waving and intellectual double speak will make a poor theory a law.

              Sorry, I cant take the moral high ground, I am moraly bankrupt. Just wishing your family well. Is something wrong with that.

              Again what is with the name calling. Do you kiss your mom with that mouth? Not that is bothers me, just wandering if you are able to construct a thought without resorting to mud slinging.

              You also say that evolution being wrong doesnt prove creation. Do you have another viable theory to bring a DNA chain into existance. If so post it I would like to hear it.

              All the best to you and your family. ; )

            • Jabster

              “The other religions are not valid because they are not the word of God we already discused this long ago.”

              … and you wonder why your views aren’t taken seriously and you get mocked? Is that really the best you can put forward … my god is the one true god because I say so. Oh and I’ll take you up on why Allah is not the one true god … post away.

              “biblical, historical, prophetic, creation, and scientific (evidence as stated many times before)”

              Please look up the definition of evidence as it’s not what you think it is. For example lying is not considered evidence.

              “I never said you had to bieleve anything just have an open mind. It doesnt matter if you pray that you dont believe but would like to see proof, just do it open minded. You wont understand untill you do, sorry.”

              An open mind … so presumable this open mind approach precludes believing you could be praying to other gods?

              “You grab on to any non evidence so you can try to make something from nothing.”

              As you have demonstrated that you don’t understand the term evidence I wonder what you are trying to say here, maybe a touch of the Ray Comfort’s?

              “Sorry, I cant take the moral high ground, I am moraly bankrupt.”

              I thought you where just plain stupid …

              “You also say that evolution being wrong doesnt prove creation.”

              No it doesn’t which is something which you have continually failed to grasp.

            • LRA

              Shawn Abbot is completely frakkin stupid. Word of god my ass.

            • Jabster

              @LRA

              He’s rather funny as well … I honestly believe that he thinks what he’s posting are killer arguments for why he’s right. It always gets a laugh from me.

            • Shawn Abbott

              I don’t really care about the mocking it makes no difference to me.

              As far as allah goes. This brings us back to where we started. Mohammad himself thought he was demon possessed. Read his biography, he said the angel Gabriel came to him and choaked him till he thought he was going to die. The angel did this and told him to write. His wife is the one that convinced him to do it, she wanted him to be a prophet like Moses, so he wrote. She said that she saw something desend into him, he would sweat and snort like a camel. Its written by demons possessing a man. ( I don’t accually expect you to take this as a valid answer since you don’t believe in any god and therefor no demons or satan so mock away )

              There are no other gods to pray to. So if you pray you God you are praying to the right one.

              Im sorry did you state another theory, I must have missed it dad gum it im so stoopid

            • Jabster

              “( I don’t accually expect you to take this as a valid answer since you don’t believe in any god and therefor no demons or satan so mock away)”

              *laughter* … so let me get this straight others god are untrue as your god is true and you use the “facts” from your god is true to show that other gods are untrue. Very well done with such excellent logic! So again you pretty much lied as you said you had evidence for dis-proving Allah yet you knew that your evidence was nothing of the sort, does your god do a sort of double hell for people who continually lie?

              “Im sorry did you state another theory, I must have missed it dad gum it im so stoopid”

              Well as I have stated many times evolution being wrong doesn’t make creationism right unless you have evidence that supports creationism, which you clearly don’t. Evolution not explaining the origin of life shows that creationism is right, which is what I believe you’re angling at, is just plain stupid so at least you where right about one thing.

            • Jabster

              Still waiting for that evidence Shawn which you keep claiming that you have. Then again what happened to the last evidence that would change the way we look at life on Earth … oh you forgot where your saw it didn’t you or to put it another way you just flat out lied like you have more than once in this thread.

              Hint: It may be fine for the idiots that you hang around with to just claim things because they sound good even though you have no evidence and have basically made them up. In the real world you’re likely to be asked to prove your statements. When this happens it makes you look like an idiot and a liar which of course you are.

      • Jabster

        A physical change you say … well that should be rather easy to prove. Do you have a link to the relevant data to show this is a fact?

        • trj

          I’ll bet it’s a physical change that is somehow impossible to physically measure.

        • Shawn Abbott

          I new that the whole physical thing was going to come back to bite me. I figured that out unfortunatly after I posted it sorry, not trying to backtrack on you. although not physical and no you can’t plug a computer into a Christians head to see if the spirit of God has change the brain function. Any “true” Christian will back me up there is an understanding of the bible, God, biblical things that just become clear, that were not clear before. Again sorry for my poor choice of words in my post.

          • Shawn Abbott

            make that knew

          • Jabster

            So whether you have faith or not there is no way of telling expect your opinion or indeed whether they have the wrong faith entirely. In the latter case I’m sure they can quite easily claim exactly the same thing against your faith i.e. that it is not true. In the end all you have is the thought that you are right because you think you’re right and this is no different to any sub-section of Christianity or indeed other religions.

            • Shawn Abbott

              I look at creation, and know there is a God. I look at myself and know that since there is a God in heavan there is no way he is going to let me in. I look at the suffering of a perfect savior on the cross for my wrongs, and accept that gift. Any faith that claims that a perfect creator is going to let wrongs go unpunished because of our lame attempt at being a good person (praying, good deeds, etc. ) is wrong. (sure I raped and murdered that girl but after that I saved a truckload of blind kids can,t you let me in to heaven.) In the end all you have is the hope that you are not going to fall at the feet of a living God, you better be sure about your choice.

            • Jabster

              I’m sorry but lots of hand waving and emotional blather doesn’t real cut much ice with me. Let’s be honest a believer of another religion could equally come up with similar mumbo-jumbo as you just have and you wouldn’t believe a word of it. So tell me why I should believe your version of mumbo-jumbo land …

            • Shawn Abbott

              I have no problem with anybody in any religion coming to the realization that he is not good enought without the help of a perfect sacrifice to gain entrance to heaven. If they however tell me that they are good enough people, give me a break we both know that is not true.

            • Elemenope

              Yes. Clearly, nice, giving people who are not Christians will be dipped in the hot sauce forever.

              A standard that nobody can meet isn’t a standard at all. It’s a farce.

            • Shawn Abbott

              The point is of the law is not to give you a standard you can’t meet. Its to show you that you need a savior. Thats why the pharisees had such a problem. All they wanted to do was to show others how they were keeping the law. When they should have been looking for the one who came so they didnt have to. They were so convinced that they were good that they were willing to kill anyone who said different.

            • Leo

              All they wanted to do was to show others how they were keeping the law. When they should have been looking for the one who came so they didnt have to.

              Here you seem to be saying that it is more important to believe that Jesus died for your sins than it is to act in a moral way. More than this, you seem to be saying that if you believe that Jesus died for your sins, you can act in an immoral way and it doesn’t matter. If that’s what you’re saying, I find it weird.

            • vorjack

              All they wanted to do was to show others how they were keeping the law.

              You do realize that you’re getting that depiction from Christian sources, which means that you’re accepting the depiction provided by the chief rivals of the pharisees.

              What you’re doing basically accepting a description of the Democratic Party that was written by the Republicans. Don’t you see a problem with that?

            • Shawn Abbott

              leo
              It is more important to believe, and be made richous that to try to be richous, we cant be moral its imposible. when you believe you are also called to repent of you sins as well. from believing comes works the works come after believing. So is sombody says I believe and there is no change in lifestyle they have not been changed and are no a true Christian. Judas simon the sorcerer from the bible both professed belief but were not changed from within (false convert) you believe in God, good the demons also believe and shudder.

              vorjack

              Yes I understand that.
              you also have to understand that I believe the bible to be the word of God. Working under that belief I would take Jesus at his word. They hated Jesus because he told them they were sinners. Do you think he was wrong in that thought, or were they sinners?

      • Francesc

        “there is an accual phisical change that happens to you we will not lose our faith at that point because we can understand the truth”
        Did you get a brain’s circumsicion?

        • Shawn Abbott

          Circumsicion of the brain noted. There is an accual change that happens to you (insert comma here) we will not lose our faith at that point because we can understand the truth.

    • Tyoes

      When we read the Bible, we must always consider the place and time in which it was written. Hebrew slaves were cared for by their owners and were not treated poorly. Just as polygamy was a cultural practice, so was slavery during that time. God did not create slavery, humans did. We always have choice… God gives us directions that we are able to understand at that time. The new testament gives new information on what is acceptable because it addresses a new generation…one that has the capacity to experience God internally rather than simply relating to Him from an external point of view.

      • http://ohmatron.wordpress.com/ Custador

        I do love reading theists try to justify the disgusting things that their book of mythology says their God approves of, it’s a hoot!

      • http://fugodeus.com/ Nox

        The “everyone else was doing it” defense might work a little better if the book endorsing slavery (and endorsing selling your daughter into slavery, and endorsing slave beating, and endorsing rape, and commanding genocide) were not claiming to be the only source for perfect morality.

  • Restless D

    Its not a blog but Pat Condell is a LEGEND for reason

    http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=patcondell&view=videos

  • http://www.turntheclockforward.org/ Jen R

    Slacktivist? Fred’s a Christian.

    Thanks for the list. Greta Christina is my favorite atheist blogger. I’ll have to check out some of the others.

  • http://www.nullifidian.net/ null

    There’s loads of them (us, that is) over at Planet Atheism and on Mojoey’s atheist blogroll.

  • Confused

    Offtopic, but…

    However you are right you catch more flies with honey the vinegar.

    http://xkcd.com/357/

    Flies are in fact attracted to putrefaction. Honey might attract more bees and wasps, but vinegar wins for flies.

  • Pingback: You like me! You really, really like me! | williamlobdell.com

  • Ty

    Vorjack has a blog of his own?

    Well blow me down.

    *adds to bookmarks**

  • Valis

    Ha! You got linked to from Pharyngula dude :-) Deservedly so, I think. There’s a lot of insightful commentary going on here. Of course there’re also some ignorant commenters…

  • Ty

    Oh, wait, is vjack vorjack? Or is that just coincidence?

    Also, to toss one anecdote into the mix:

    Mockery of my beliefs led to me entrenching, just as nope points out. However, my version of entrenchment led to me doing ever more study to defend my beliefs. That study led directly to my de-conversion.

    You never really know what will work.

  • http://unreasonablefaith.com Daniel Florien

    vorjack here isn’t vjack. It’s a coincidence. :)

    I realize Slacktivist isn’t an atheist, but I was thinking of him in the “skeptical” category — plus his blog is well-liked by many atheists.

  • Elemenope

    Mockery of my beliefs led to me entrenching, just as nope points out. However, my version of entrenchment led to me doing ever more study to defend my beliefs. That study led directly to my de-conversion.

    You never really know what will work.

    Fair point. I think though that most people retrench emotionally rather than take the (IMO superior) intellectual road of searching for better justifications that you did.

    Also, I’m being a little selfish here. I don’t like reading/hearing insults regarding people’s beliefs because those insults make *me* cringe. There’s something about it that makes me deeply uncomfortable, and want to defend whoever is the target almost out of reflex. It’s not logical, but there it is.

  • http://thinworker.wordpress.com/ Philip

    @ markbey

    “When debating christians I find this behavior all the time for instance when you whty is the bible so sexist the holy rollers ignore these questions which I consider dishones.”

    Perhaps it’s in part who you ask? As often as you can find a believer who has no idea why they believe what they believe and can’t answer a decent question, a believer will run into an atheist who can’t either.

    My point is, there are a lot of very loud people on either side who are just loud. Doesn’t mean they have all the answers or care to even look or try to find them they just like to yell.

  • newbie atheist

    Wow, I’ve got some more reading to do. I would also suggest these:

    (((Billy))) The Atheist
    http://iambilly.wordpress.com/

    Philly Chief’s blog
    http://youmademesayit.blogspot.com/

    Spanish Inquisitor
    http://spaninquis.wordpress.com/

    God is for suckers!
    http://gods4suckers.net/

    The Freethinker magazine
    http://www.freethinker.co.uk/

    and for when you’re feeling really angry try out
    http://www.evolvedrational.com/

  • J-Dog

    ERV!!!

    She does good work.

  • http://avertyoureye.blogspot.com/ Teleprompter

    @ Philip

    True, there are a lot of people who just like to yell. Period.

    However, that shouldn’t be a serious obstacle to determined, persistant pursuit of answers.

    Ignorant atheists or theists does not an argument make.

  • Ty

    “As often as you can find a believer who has no idea why they believe what they believe and can’t answer a decent question, a believer will run into an atheist who can’t either.”

    Ah, look, you just made something up.

    I defy you to present any evidence that this equality you assert is actually the case.

    I’ll assert that there are many many many more religious folks with no idea what their religion is about than there are atheists who can’t explain why they don’t believe in god/s.

    And I’ve been on both sides of that divide. If they were actually equally uninformed, I’d still be a Christian.

  • http://progressatallcost.blogspot.com/ markbey

    @ Phillip

    ” Perhaps it’s in part who you ask? As often as you can find a believer who has no idea why they believe what they believe and can’t answer a decent question, a believer will run into an atheist who can’t either.”

    mark: But thier is a difference between an atheist who says I have seen no evidence of god and therefore I dont believe and a believer who says not only is thier a god but out of all of the thousands my concept of god is the only one that is correct.

    When you ask them what proof they have or if they can give an argument for why they believe in god. The only case they can make is an emotional case. Somewhere in thier argument they end up stating how moral and just thier god is.

    When you ask them a specific question such as if god is moral and just then exactly why would god give instructions on how to sell ones daughter into slavery they pretend like they cannot read.

    Lastly believers are the ones making extrodinary claims and an extrodinary claim at least should have a decent argument if not extrodinary proof to go along with those claims.

  • http://progressatallcost.blogspot.com/ markbey

    @ nope

    Also, I’m being a little selfish here. I don’t like reading/hearing insults regarding people’s beliefs because those insults make *me* cringe. There’s something about it that makes me deeply uncomfortable, and want to defend whoever is the target almost out of reflex. It’s not logical, but there it is.”

    mark: I feel where your comming from but why is it athiest must be polite to christians and not mock them but christians can mock any belief they dont believe in including other christian denominations they dont follow.

    For instance I have heard some christians refer to Jehova witness, Seventh day adventist and Catholics as belonging to cults. I would love to know exactly what makes those denomintions cults any more than any other christian denomination.

    Christians disrespect and mock people from different denominations and religions all of the time.

  • http://progressatallcost.blogspot.com/ markbey

    “I’ll assert that there are many many many more religious folks with no idea what their religion is about than there are atheists who can’t explain why they don’t believe in god/s.”

    mark: Ditto. Most christians I know havent event read 1/4 of the bible and yet only thier fantastic beliefs could possible be true.

    christians should get the exact same treatment they give to other non christian believers.

    • Shawn Abbott

      what treatment do you speak of??

  • http://avertyoureye.blogspot.com/ Teleprompter

    Oh, here’s another outstanding atheist-oriented blog that I really like which I accidentally forgot to mention earlier:

    Atheism: Proving the Negative
    http://www.atheismblog.blogspot.com/

  • http://babyfight.com garth

    http://thegoodatheist.net/

    that’s my friend Jake’s blog.

    mine is kind of atheisty also. but more just random drunken rants and music

  • eddie

    I’d like to give a shout to the atheist blog

    http://www.aboyandhiscomputer.com/

    Famous for the Church Sign Generator

    enjoy

  • Reginald Selkirk

    14. Mid-West Humanists

    That one threw me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the term “Mid-West applied to any country but the U.S.

  • http://openparachute.wordpress.com/ Ken

    Pushing my own barrow – but for something done under (from New Zealand) have a look at Open Parachute.

  • http://depthdeception.blogspot.com Jay

    Someday I’ll make the list!

  • Pingback: Top Atheist & Agnostic Blogs « A View From The West

  • Pingback: and here’s my problem with being an atheist… « Robin’s blog

  • http://nearearth.wordpress.com/ Paul

    I’m hurt. Well, maybe you haven’t visited yet. I choose to be hurt, though. More fun that way. :)
    http://blocraison.blogspot.com

  • Ty

    Thanks Ken, always interesting to see what atheists in the rest of the world have to say.

    I’ve always wanted to travel to New Zealand. Back when I was still religious, people in my religion would brag that you could go anywhere in the world and be assured of a place to stay, since you could call on the hospitality of any of the brethren.

    We need an atheist version of that. :)

  • Elemenope

    I feel where your comming from but why is it athiest must be polite to christians and not mock them but christians can mock any belief they dont believe in including other christian denominations they dont follow.

    In my experience, conscientious Christians are as unlikely to be nasty in conversation as conscientious Atheists. The reason, I think, that there is a general perception among Atheists that Christians are nastier and more dismissive in conversations than Atheists is two-fold:

    1. There are more Christians than Atheists. As a matter of probability, then, any jerk that you meet is more likely to be a Christian than an Atheist, all other things being equal. Also, as a subsidiary consequence, being in the majority has the added benefit of having substantial social cover for being a jerk or being dismissive; it’s easier to get away with.

    2. Since you are an Atheist, it is more likely that you will be engaging in argument with a Christian than with another Atheist, and so there is something of selection bias in play.

    Neither one has an excuse to behave that way, though.

  • http://thinworker.wordpress.com/ Philip

    @ TY

    “I defy you to present any evidence that this equality you assert is actually the case.”

    I can only speak anecdotally in the same way that you can only speak anecdotally on this topic. If there is a study or stats then so be it but i don’t know any so i can only speak from what i’ve experienced and that’s what i’ve experienced.

    @mark

    First off i’d like to say i’m very much enjoying our discourse.

    “Christians disrespect and mock people from different denominations and religions all of the time.”

    It’s true, doesn’t make it right but it’s true. It actually speaks to the Golden Rule if you will. Treat others as you would like to be treated so mabye the name calling Christians are asking for it and that’s why they get it.

    All i know is that name calling is not very loving and Jeues calls us to love everyone so, i don’t know where they get it.

    • Karleigh

      He also “called” you to hate your family.

  • Stephen

    If religious satire is your cup of tea, try:
    http://revright.wordpress.com

  • http://digitaldame.wordpress.com Digital Dame

    I only read a couple of atheist blogs other than this one, I don’t know how you people have time to keep up with all these blogs! One of the others I read that I haven’t seen mentioned yet is An Apostate’s Chapel.

    I’ll try to get around to checking out some of the others listed here.

  • Ty

    “I can only speak anecdotally in the same way that you can only speak anecdotally on this topic. If there is a study or stats then so be it but i don’t know any so i can only speak from what i’ve experienced and that’s what i’ve experienced.”

    Having spent 30 years evangelizing as a Christian, and having never once run into an atheist that matches your ‘experience’, makes me dubious about this claim. Besides, what about “I don’t believe in any gods” requires deep explanation?

    In that same span of time, I talked to thousands of religious people who could not explain to me what they actually believed.

    This is just that same tired, “Atheists are exactly the same as religious people” canard that always falls apart under any examination.

    You guys are the one’s that require vast and complex semantic games to support your beliefs. We just need to not buy into them.

  • Ty

    Elemenope, you get to make that comparison after the first time an atheist knocks on your door at 8am Saturday morning to convince you that you will be killed by god at Armageddon if you don’t agree to take their literature.

    I’m about as much of an aggressive jerk as any atheist is, and I’ll never street evangelize to you. I’ll never claim that you deserve to be tortured for eternity for disagreeing with me. I’ll never try to pass laws legislating my brand of morality. And, for Cthulu’s sake, I’ll never go trolling blogs and forums dedicated to Christian conversation looking to pick a fight.

    *Looks around*

    Can’t say the same for the Christian folks, sorry.

  • http://thinworker.wordpress.com/ Philip

    @Ty

    does the fact that you cannot prove that a god (who may or may not want to reveal him/her self to humans assuming that a god figure is an infinite being) doesn’t exist any more than i can prove that he does exist matter? I just wonder because should it chose to stay where it is it can’t be measured doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. either way but an inability to measure something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist does it?

    Excuse my ignorance i’m just curious.

    • Karleigh

      The properties “impossible to measure” and “non-existent” are remarkably similar.
      I do not think that it should be the atheist’s prerogative to prove that God does not exist. It is up to the people who believe in him and believe that everyone else should to and live their lives as though this is true.

  • Ty

    “does the fact that you cannot prove that a god (who may or may not want to reveal him/her self to humans assuming that a god figure is an infinite being) doesn’t exist any more than i can prove that he does exist matter?”

    Inability to prove a negative is never evidence.

    Sorry.

  • http://www.nullifidian.net/ null

    Philip wrote:

    I just wonder because should it chose to stay where it is it can’t be measured doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. either way but an inability to measure something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist does it?

    (Dis)prove Thor.

  • Elemenope

    I’ll never try to pass laws legislating my brand of morality.

    I’ll give you the rest, but not this one. A legislative proclivity for *avoiding* morals-based restrictions is legislating a particular moral viewpoint. (One, being a libertarian, I happen to agree with, BTW.) There is a decent countervailing moral argument that states that if someone is doing something wrong and you have the power to stop it, you have a duty to use that power in order to prevent or punish the wrong act.

    By preventing legislation that allows the use of such power (like, for example, the power of the state to tax, punish, prevent, regulate, etc.), you are writing your legislative viewpoint at the exclusion of another. All you can really claim is that your moral standards of acceptability are different than the average Christian; you can’t claim that you have a preference that you don’t believe should be reflected in the law. You seek simply to allow some thing that they wish to disallow; allowing a behavior has as much moral consequence as disallowing the same insofar as there is a disagreement about whether allowing an act or preventing it is the more moral course.

  • http://negligibleknowledgebase.com thecodepounder

    Daniel, thanks for the mention! Much appreciated.

  • http://thinworker.wordpress.com/ Philip

    @ null

    Exactly, that is my point. Can’t prove it one way or another.

  • http://avertyoureye.blogspot.com/ Teleprompter

    @ Philip,

    While there are certain things which we can’t prove, we can at least claim many things with an extremely high degree of confidence.

    For example, who disputes that human beings originated in Africa, and not Mesopotamia? Do you dispute that?

    Do you dispute that evolution by natural selection is the method which accounts for the diversity of life on planet Earth, whether there is a god or not?

    It seems exceedingly foolish, for example, to take the Bible’s word literally.

    My point is, while we can’t demonstrate that the Biblical god doesn’t exist, we can demonstrate that certain claims which have been made by religion are not accurate, such as geocentrism.

    Sure, we can’t disprove Thor, but if Thor makes a claim, and we can disprove that, and if we can then disprove a series of claims about Thor’s revelations or Thor’s supposed nature, then we’re well on our way to making the case that it is so unlikely that Thor actually exists that it would be a non-controversial point to believe that he doesn’t, in fact, exist.

  • http://excitedbigkev.wordpress.com excitedbigkev

    excitedbigkev.wordpress.com

  • jamesatracy

    It might be an interesting meme if other atheist bloggers posted their own top 5 or top 10 favorite atheist blogs that they read. I bet there would be an interesting mix (and bloggers, of course, always appreciate the links!)

  • Jabster

    @Elemenope

    “I’ll give you the rest, but not this one. A legislative proclivity for *avoiding* morals-based restrictions is legislating a particular moral viewpoint.”

    I do agree that your general viewpoint is correct in saying for example allowing gay marriage you are in passing laws for your own brand of morality. The real difference is in the general nature of ‘laws’ that religions wish to be in place. These can best be described as I don’t agree with it therefore nobody should be allowed to do it compared to it’s allowed but isn’t mandatory. So the key part is liberal vs. religious viewpoints and not atheist vs. religious view points. It could be argued that atheists have a more liberal viewpoint in general but it’s not a requirement.

    So my real disagreement is from a purely liberal viewpoint i.e. yep you may disagree but I’m not forcing you to do it. Now of course there are certain grey areas, for example not having Sunday as a rest day makes it much more difficult for believers to follow there own faith — most people need a job. Another example is the great debate over teaching ID (or god as the creator by the back door) vs. evolution. Is this is case of morals or maybe just good sense?

  • Toby

    If you’re including skeptical / philosophical blogs, I like Stephen Law’s Blog. Usually a good refutation of religious arguments found there.

  • http://www.atheistrev.com vjack

    I am thrilled to be considered among such impressive company. Over the past few years, we have witnessed an explosion of growth in the atheist blogosphere. Best of all, I think we’ve also seen significant improvements in quality. Congratulations to everyone who has been a part of this positive development!

  • Pingback: » A quick shout out Evangelical Realism

  • http://impartialism.wordpress.com/ faithlessgod

    I would nominate the Atheist Ethicist

  • http://radicalatheist.com Jack Carlson

    I’d like to second Norman Doering’s request for the criteria used to decide popularity. Knowing what makes some blogs more popular than others would help the rest of us make our writing more relevant to readers.

    What catches your eye, what engages your interest and makes you want to follow one blog over another?

  • http://unreasonablefaith.com Daniel Florien

    Regarding the criteria: it was whatever has caught me eye and interest over the last year or so.

    What engages my interest will be different from others, but I look for a professional and interesting writing style, interesting posts, brevity, regular posting, a healthy comments community, and a nice blog design.

  • http://bythebookcomics.blogspot.com/ DocMike

    Daniel ,

    Thanks for including my blog in your list! I’ll definitely post the graphic in my sidebar.

    http://bythebookcomics.blogspot.com/

  • Marty
  • Peter Harrington
  • http://thinworker.wordpress.com/ Philip

    @ TY

    “what about “I don’t believe in any gods” requires deep explanation?”

    Why does believing in a god require a lot of deep explanation other than ‘i think it’s there?’

    you don’t have to believe the bible to believe that God is there. the bible also doesn’t say ‘believe that i created the earth, evolution is wrong, slavery is ok then you can be a christian.’

    all christians don’t agree on this stuff but that doesn’t mean they don’t believe in the same God. To say i don’t/do believe in any gods is not easier or harder. it’s the religion and rules that come with it that is the confusing part not the existence of a god or not.

  • http://www.davewyman.com Dave

    >http://whyihatejesus.blogspot.com/&lt;

    The title is a little over the top, but the author is literate and thoughtful and will suffer fools gladly.

  • Jabster

    @Phillip

    “To say i don’t/do believe in any gods is not easier or harder.”

    To say you believe in something for which there is no evidence is far harder than to say you don’t believe in it. Can you give further examples of things you believe in just because ‘you think it’s there?’

  • http://www.threeriversonline.com Philip Shropshire

    Well, in yet another vain effort to toot my own horn, I’m one of the few African Americans who’s an atheist who runs a website. That makes me rarer than water turning into wine.

    My site is:

    http://www.threeriversonline.com

    It’s mostly about politics but atheism comes up quite a bit.

    Also please check out the Acid Jazz Channel (attempt at an online music/politics channel) at the top of the site which features best bits from the likes of Harris, Hitchens and Dawkins.

  • http://progressatallcost.blogspot.com/ markbey

    “Well, in yet another vain effort to toot my own horn, I’m one of the few African Americans who’s an atheist who runs a website. That makes me rarer than water turning into wine.”

    mark: I am african american as well, I also have a blog and I right about religion. But my blog is not dedicated to atheism.

  • http://blog.case.edu/webdev/ Heidi Cool

    I’d add Mano Singham’s blog to the list. http://blog.case.edu/singham/.

    Professor Singham, a physicist and defender of evolution, writes on science, history and philosophy of science, religion, politics, the media, education, learning, books, and films and has written several essays exploring belief, explaining how evolution works, etc. His writing lucid, educational and thought-provoking and he takes great care to not only follow the rules of logic but to explain them to his readers.

    His book, “The Case of God v. Darwin: Evolution, Religion, and the Establishment Clause” will be published later this year.

  • http://thinworker.wordpress.com/ Philip

    @ Jabster

    “To say you believe in something for which there is no evidence is far harder than to say you don’t believe in it. Can you give further examples of things you believe in just because ‘you think it’s there?’’”

    Well there is no evidence that you would accept. That’s different. I still believe i have expereicned God but that means nothign to you so. As far as i’m concerned there is evidence that can be verified by others but again you probably don’t care about that.

    My thought is that never having seen or touched or in any way experienced something doesn’t void it’s existence.

    So to your question no but that’s because i’m certain i have experienced God so its not something made up as far as i’m concerned. my experiences validate my believe in the same way your experience of touch validates that something is actually there even if you can’t see hear or smell it.

    if you lost all your other senses but touched something would you question if it was there?

  • Ty

    Philip, I once had a fever induced dream that I was being chased by gigantic eye boogers (this is not a joke). It was so vivid in my feverish state, that I actually ran down the street in my underwear at 3am trying to escape. Fortunately, I was 11 at the time, so unlikely to be arrested for indecent exposure.

    Does that mean that giant eye boogers exist, and mean us harm?

    Your subjective personal experiences mean diddly squat when determining what is real and what isn’t. All it means is that you ‘felt’ like something was real once. If that is the new criteria for determining fact, then literally everything is true, since at one point surely someone somewhere believed it.

    Now, you are free to believe anything you like. But it seems silly to think that with only your personal experience as evidence anyone else will buy it.

    And that’s not even taking into account that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you came on this blog to let everyone know that you saw a black dog chasing a white cat down the street, you’d probably get very few skeptics. Black dogs exist. White cats exist. Dogs chase cats. Nothing in your claim is extraordinary.

    If you claimed you saw a green cat chasing a purple dog, you might be asked for evidence, since those things are less likely. But even a simple photograph or second witness would likely be enough, since we can imagine someone painting a cat and dog as a prank, and the angry cat maybe chasing the dog away. It’s less likely than the first, but not totally outside of our experience.

    You see, it scales up. The more extraordinary the claim, the greater the evidence a skeptical mind will require.

    But you are claiming that an eternal and uncreated being personally created the entire universe which is a truly extraordinary claim. We’ve never seen any evidence that any gods exist, much less this specific one you pray to. There is no evidence that the universe requires a creator. There is no evidence of purposeful design in the universe. In fact, the universe looks pretty much exactly like we’d expect it to look if it was just all one big mostly random mess.

    And the only evidence you put forth is that you have a strong feeling it’s true, coupled with some personal and untestable experiences.

    Why do you feel this is a compelling argument to make?

  • http://thinworker.wordpress.com/ Philip

    @ Ty

    “But you are claiming that an eternal and uncreated being personally created the entire universe which is a truly extraordinary claim. We’ve never seen any evidence that any gods exist, much less this specific one you pray to. There is no evidence that the universe requires a creator. There is no evidence of purposeful design in the universe. In fact, the universe looks pretty much exactly like we’d expect it to look if it was just all one big mostly random mess.”

    it is an extraordinary claim. why would someone believe in or follow an inextraordinary god? to me the world doesnt’ seam so random but that’s probably due to our differing world views. The complexity of our planet, atmosphere, central nervous system and how things interact speaks to me of design over random but i think thats an issue with the lense in which we view the world.

    I think in the end that there is evidence in the world but it’s evidence that you won’t accept and thats ok, you don’t need to accept it, i do.

    “Why do you feel this is a compelling argument to make?”

    To me it still seams that the university and everything in it is described and explained through the experiences of someone. So why is my experience which has not only been repeated for me but thousands of other people not count? Because you cannot determine the stimuli?

    i’d suggest that should you experience someone alone does that diminish the reality of the experience? you are the only one to see a shooting start, was it not there because no one else saw it and you can’t bring it back so that never happened and the shooting star you saw never existed?

    That’s a possibility and a way to live. I chose to believe my experiences and the ones of those i trust.

  • Ty

    “The complexity of our planet, atmosphere, central nervous system and how things interact speaks to me of design over random but i think thats an issue with the lense in which we view the world.”

    All of which have naturalistic explanations. None of which are different from what we’d expect based on our understanding of the universe. And understanding that does not include nor require supernatural agencies to function. Arguments from incredulity don’t carry much water.

    “So why is my experience which has not only been repeated for me but thousands of other people not count? Because you cannot determine the stimuli?”

    Nope. It has nothing to do with ‘determining the stimuli’. It is because those experiences have no testability, make no falsifiable claims, and have no predictive powers. They are, to be honest, useless for determining what the facts are. If they’re good enough for you, fine. I already said that. But you have to recognize that for skeptics, which is what the large percentage of atheists are, they are not compelling in the slightest.

    Lots of people have believed lots of things. Thousands of them. Thousands sacrificed to Zeus, who had oracles who claimed to hear his voice directly. Is that compelling evidence to you that Zeus is true? Of course it isn’t, and it shouldn’t be. The problem is that you fail to apply that same healthy skepticism to your own beliefs.

    But you keep inserting these claims into conversations, which means one of two things. Either you are beginning to question your beliefs, and are using us as a sounding board to test this one. Or two, you really do believe that your personal subjective feelings make a compelling argument that has some likelihood of changing an atheists mind.

    If it’s the former, keep it up. I’ve been there. The world is a marvelous place once you free yourself from bondage to superstition.

    If it’s the later, I fear you are wasting your time. If those arguments actually worked, most of us would still be theists.

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  • sierrafaith1

    This is a very difficult blog to read, especially when you not only believe in God, but have experienced Him. It is like not believing in wind because you have not physically seen it, but you have obviously felt it.

    When you are in your darkest hour, and can no longer depend on yourself, you will feel yourself calling out to God, naturally, from your inner being. And you know that it is true.

    He has personally healed me, comforts me and has completely changed my life.

    Instead of spending your energy trying to disprove Him, you can go to Him. He is waiting for you with open arms.

    Go to leestrobel.com. He used to be like you too. This should give you something to chew on…..

    • Karleigh

      Nothing has happened to you that could not have happened without a God. I’m quite sure there is no instance you can provide that cannot be explained naturalistically. Try again.

  • http://thinworker.wordpress.com/ Philip

    @ ty

    Sorry to disappont but I’m not questioning. My faith is based on my relationship with God.

    What I do find is for me it’s hard to find a good discussion and ifbi don’t continue to challenge my beliefs and test them I’m being irresponsible. To not look at your beliefs is silly i’m just comfortable with a different critera. But thank you for your thoughts I need them to keep my faith real and vibrant.

    My hope is not to convert you but just to have good exchange.

  • herald7

    I don’t mind if some people choose to be athiests. I can understand the position. As long as they make the effort to understand why some people are religious, and don’t just dismiss them as foolish.

    I’m religious, but I actually think the agnostics are quite wise. We really don’t know what’s what in the universe and no one can claim for sure that they do.

  • http://thinworker.wordpress.com/ Philip

    sorry for the multi posts, my internet has been cutting out and i didn’t realize that i had posted the thought already.

    @Ty

    as i read my last response i don’t think i explained enough of why i’m here. i’m here to learn. for me to ignorant of what other believe is irresponsible. So i want to learn what other think and believe. I haven’t had interactions with people like you and the others here who can answer my questions so i’m very intrigued.

    To that end if i become or have become a bother or annoyance please tell me and i’ll stop. this is your space and you are all gracious to let me be here and i don’t want to abuse that. My hope is to be gracious, respectful, and not abusive or aggressive and if that’s not how i’m coming across tell me and i’ll do my best to change.

    If you’ll indulge one last question i do have one.

    “It is because those experiences have no testability, make no falsifiable claims, and have no predictive powers.”

    so what would have to happen for an experience with God to be real in your terms? Would a number of people both believers and not seeing, touching and hearing God count? I’m hoping to understand what makes things real for something like yourself so i can speak about my faith and God in your terms and in ways you will respect, if that is possible.

  • herald7

    Personally, I think if people were to suddenly believe in God because of a physical sign, it wouldn’t mean very much. It’s easy to believe in what you see. Faith is a much more impressive gesture. :)

  • herald7

    As a Christian I was confidently state that many parts of the Bible AREN’T meant to be taken literally. That’s how people communicated their history back then, with stories. That doesn’t lessen its message or impact.

    • Karleigh

      All very well for you to say that it’s not meant to be taken literally. But how do we decide which parts are literal and which aren’t? More importantly, how do we decide WHO is authorised to make these decisions? Which of the thousands of Christian sects? I wonder if you will nominate your own.

  • http://larianlequella.com Larian LeQuella

    What about mine that I update about once a month? :P

    herald7, if it isn’t to be taken literally, why DO so many? Furthermore, HOW are we to interpret it? Did you get a magic decoder ring? Isn’t it a much more reasonable explanation that they are fairytales just like the Greek and Roman myths (or Norse,or take your pick really)? And bloody inaccurate tales too, not to mention misogynistic, slavery endorsing, and full of hate. If you want to live your life, try doing it without the bible as a guide, but rather your conscience as a thoughtful and loving human being. :)

  • herald7

    “herald7, if it isn’t to be taken literally, why DO so many? Furthermore, HOW are we to interpret it? Did you get a magic decoder ring? Isn’t it a much more reasonable explanation that they are fairytales just like the Greek and Roman myths (or Norse,or take your pick really)? And bloody inaccurate tales too, not to mention misogynistic, slavery endorsing, and full of hate. If you want to live your life, try doing it without the bible as a guide, but rather your conscience as a thoughtful and loving human being. :)”

    Many Christians do take it literally, but many do not. You can’t generalize Christians, any more than you can generalize athiests. ;)

    And the ones that don’t take the Bible literally realize that the bad stuff in the Bible is stuff of an ancient world and should not be imitated now. The Bible also says to love thy neighbor and your enemies. It also bashes the upper classes for oppressing the common people. That is where the Bible truly shines. :)

  • herald7

    In addition, our culture’s idea of what makes a “thoughtful, loving human being” originally came from the Jewish and Christian beliefs laid down in the Torah and the Bible. The idea that God was a personal figure that cared about his people and encouraged kindness (as opposed to mere worship) was revolutionary and thank goodness it came about. ;)

  • http://zackfordblogs.wordpress.com ZackFord

    My blog is pretty new… but I hope people check it out and like it! http://zackfordblogs.wordpress.com

  • Jabster

    @herald7

    @The Howitzer

    “In addition, our culture’s idea of what makes a “thoughtful, loving human being” originally came from the Jewish and Christian beliefs laid down in the Torah and the Bible.”

    Do you actually realise just how arrogant that sounds – please take some time to think of the implications of what you have stated.

  • Jabster

    … oops that was just for herald7

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  • herald7

    I can assure you I was not trying to be arrogant. I was defending something that takes a lot of flack. I think all religions are equal and have no problem with any of them. And I don’t pass judgments on them. ;)

  • Jabster

    @herald7

    You think all religions are equal yet have stated that:

    “In addition, our culture’s idea of what makes a “thoughtful, loving human being” originally came from the Jewish and Christian beliefs laid down in the Torah and the Bible.”

    That does not make me assume that you believe that all religions or lack of religion are equal. Please explain what you meant by the comment. Would ‘our’ culture not support the idea of a thoughtful human being of it was not for Jewish and Christian beliefs?

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  • http://www.skepticaloccultism.com/ pendens proditor

    It isn’t explicitly atheist in motivation, but http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/ is the cream of the skeptical blog crop.

  • http://www.primordial-blog.blogspot.com/ Brian Larnder

    Hey Daniel,

    Thanks for including me in the list. I was away when it came out, but it was a nice surprise to come home to.

  • herald7

    Jabster, I understand your concern. :) But despite what you seem to think, I have made it my life’s work to stand up for the underdog, whether it be my own religion, other religions or athiesm. Believe me, I have met truly arrogant, bigoted people in my life, and let them know I disagree (which got them quite annoyed with me!). After this comment, I probably won’t discuss this any further. I just want to defend myself a bit here. :)

    I never said one religion was better than another (or that athiests was inferior). I said that culturally and sociologically speaking, most of what we consider values in our society came from Judeo-Christian values in ancient times. It’s the same as saying our present form of government had its origins in earlier democratic governments, such as the ancient Greeks. However, that does not mean we have not been influenced by other religions, quite the contrary. Nor does it mean athiests lack morals. It’s not an “all or nothing” situation. Life rarely is. Hope that helps, have a good day! :)

  • herald7

    As much as I hesitate to use Wikipedia as a source, lol, this is good for explaining my statement in a pinch:

    “Judeo–Christian (sometimes written as Judaeo–Christian) is a term used to describe the body of concepts and values which are thought to be held in common by Judaism and Christianity, and considered, often along with classical Greco-Roman civilization, a fundamental basis for Western legal codes and moral values.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian

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  • http://stardustman.blogspot.com/ Stardustman

    I don’t expect my blog to make your list but here it is anyway.
    I more pro-nature than anti-religion. Religion is just an unfortunate misleading distraction for the human race.

    So much reading…so little time…

    • Karleigh

      Sorry…where is it?

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  • Kriskke

    One of my favourite blogs.

    http://atheistexperience.blogspot.com/

    And they have an excellent tv-show as well.
    Check them out.
    The Atheist Experience.

  • http://doctore.blog.is/ DoctorE

    Mine is icelandic… so I dont stand a chance… :)
    Hey but I post many vids…
    http://doctore.blog.is/

    Soon I will start english one also… I love fighting delusional people :)

  • http://www.ragingrev.com Rev. Matt Oxley

    Nice list, gonna add most of these to my favorites. I too am a blogger and an Atheist (and former Christian)…but im the new kid on the block…

    my site is at http://ragingrev.com

  • GipFace

    I like this one… “Trapped by the Mormons”

    http://nataliercollins.com/weblog/

  • http://www.intolerantfaith.com IntolerantFaith

    Here are a couple other sites that Atheists might find interesting.
    NoHonor.org
    ReligionNewsBlog.com
    and, my site!
    IntolerantFaith.com

  • prave

    hey man daniel
    my story is kind of different…from a zealous Calvinist/fundamentalist to a happily settled universalist.
    i was reading ur personal story

    you said
    “I want to believe the truth, no matter the consequences to my current beliefs. ” (http://unreasonablefaith.com/about/)

    Jesus said ‘i am the way, the truth…etc.’

    so you really believe in Jesus, don’t you?? :) :)

    you might say, Jesus is not the truth.
    i would say Jesus is the truth.
    also in my book if someone loves the truth as you do. You are a Christian.

    You would say, a Buddhist would loves the truth too…

    well The Lord himself said…’i will draw all men to myself’…
    Perhaps the Buddhist is a christian who has not realized it yet??
    i don’t know…but this i know one day ” God will be All In All: 1 Corinthians 15:12-34″

    i am not from USA and lived in asia for 23 years…the reason i am saying is this: scriptures are read with a mix of reason and mysticism (isn’t all of major religions eastern : from Judaism to Islam? )

    So, pure reason can produce atheism, maybe??? i don’t know…

    i was a 7 day creationist…Now i believe in theistic evolution. i still don’t understand the brutality of the old testament, nor the unreasonableness of Jesus’ commands (for example, if a wicked person sues you give all that you have )…

    so why do i believe in Jesus, thou i sometimes think he is really weird and messed up with all his commands?? i don’t know…i just can’t shake my belief :)…
    the more i live in the west in the USA, i feel, i have something analogous to the madness of the old testament “the west” has produced all of it: from Nazism, atheism, colonialism, Calvinism, conscious torment in eternal hell, 2 world wars, etc. etc…
    So why should i trust in any meta narrative of the west…
    why should i go to a Richard dawkins who would give me an explanation?
    Mr dawkins, what about now??? How do we improve the lives of 23000 children who are dying of hunger every day??? what about them…
    he would say…’thats evolution in play: the weakest die and the strong survive… ‘
    why is their so much evil if God is good…
    well God did 2 greatest evils:(evil is something bad that a person does…that does not mean GOD sins…Sin is missing the mark and God cannot miss any mark) : the fall of Adam and the Crucifixion of Christ . from the greatest evil came greatest good …God becoming man so that God can be all in all.. S

  • herald7

    “i still don’t understand…the unreasonableness of Jesus’ commands (for example, if a wicked person sues you give all that you have )…”

    Jesus was just trying to say don’t seek huge revenge on someone who has wronged you. To be humble, be the bigger person. It’s similar to turn the other cheek.

    • Solomon

      herald7
      “i still don’t understand…the unreasonableness of Jesus’ commands (for example, if a wicked
      person sues you give all that you have )…”

      Do you know why you don’t understand what you have wiitten above?Its because you have chosen the wrong book for reference.The bible is the rewritten version of the true Torah.Thats why you will find many contradictions in it.It was written by men to suit their human needs & also due to hatred.You should read the Qoran which rereveils the truth.

  • http://lostaddress.org ray

    Could http://www.badpsychics.co.uk be added to the list? Probably the biggest UK skeptics site.

  • MaryLynne

    I don’t know if it counts as a blog, but http://www.normalbobsmith.com – he has Jesus dress ups, and then replies to and posts the hate mail he gets from Christians. It can be pretty funny.

  • Disgustipated

    Don’t forget Reasonable Doubts. Excellent Podcast.

    http://doubtreligion.blogspot.com/

  • Stephen Butterfield

    This blog, which is described as “Highlighting the nonsense from those who have an unhealthy obsession or compulsion with the “supernatural” or the “divine” that is increasingly threatening to insinuate itself into real life, affecting not just those who chose to believe in such things, but those of us who do not, for whatever reason.” is certainly worth a look:
    http://www.nullifidian.net/

    Another interesting blog can be found here:
    http://bridgingschisms.org/

    And finally, if you’re the type of person that is interested to know how the garden-variety Christian attempts to defend his or her beliefs, and if you’re not afraid to face-palm or cringe after nearly every paragraph, then my own blog may be of particular interest to you:
    http://alphacoursereview.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/what-is-the-alpha-course/

    Best Wishes,

    S.B

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  • Stephen Butterfield

    Hello Derek,

    I haven’t read enough Christian blogs in order to recommend any, unfortunately. However, I’ve read quite a few blogs by sceptics who invite dialogue between themselves and theists. The two blogs I mentioned above are good for that, and there’s also http://yunshui.wordpress.com and http://inthenuts.blogspot.com

    Best Wishes,

    S. Butterfield

  • Solomon

    For all those Atheists out there,

    Please believe there is God.The true & only God,that is the God of Moses,Abraham,Jesus(real) & Mohammad.Don’t believe those ‘Big bang theories’.Those theories are only meant to mislead you from the right path.Think again,if the beginning of the Universe happens in a big bang,then everything will be in pieces,not what you see around you right now,beautiful scenaries & beautiful people.The ‘big bang’ will only happens at the end of the world where everything will be destroyed.God muticulately create the heavens and the earth in six days.Then he rest on his Arasy.How come a big bang create a such a complex living things & universe with its complex systems.Look at your fingers.Can a big bang create such beautiful fingers.A ’small bang’(dynamite )might have blown your head off.

    • LRA

      I don’t think you understand what the word “true” entails. It requires verifiability. Can you verify your claims?

      Also, you criticize quantum physics… are you an expert? Can you give specific reasons as to why you critique this very well accepted fact of science? (In other words, do you have an argument that actually engages the science?)

      If you have questions about the big bang, why don’t you start with entropy. If you can’t understand this very basic principle of physics, then you have no business criticizing.

      • Solomon

        LRA
        I think you yourself don’t understand what’s the meaning of true either.The only thing you understand about truth is to run away from it.You don’t have to use the words verifiability,Quantum physics or entropy or other craps that you create.I don’t have to be a scientist or an expert to answere all your foolish (i may say stupid) questions,pardon me.I cite you a simple example.Does the creation of the Ant,yes I mean the insect ant,which creeps on the earth more difficult to make or your scholars theory of the so called quantum physics which I doubt you yourself does’t understand either.Don’t simply uses science as a base to challenge much more than science(the Universe that you can see & everything in it(its no delusion)that God has created a long time ago.Quantum physics is a chicken feed subject to God.Come back to the right path LRA.I pity you blindly following you atheists scholars without knowing the truth.Youre not too late.What I mean is come back to the true God that is the god of Moses,Abraham,Jesus(real) & Mohammad.

        • Francesc

          Troll detector on
          Results not conclusive. They fit both, “troll” and “angry fundi”

        • LRA

          LOL! What a laughable response. Very silly indeed.

  • Solomon

    sierrafaith1,
    How thoughtfull of you.May God shows you the right path.

    • LRA

      My logic show you the right path you unthinking dogmatist…

      • Solomon

        LRA
        If you think youre a thinker & does not defy logic you should ask yourself who made you & everything around you.I vow you and all the Athiests are fools who claims they know every thing, yet they are only guessing & they are also not confident with what they believe.Is it us or you are the unthinking dogmatist…Think back LRA,you still have ample of time.You don’t have to rush to make foolish conclusions.

        • Francesc

          “Is it us or you are the unthinking dogmatist…”
          Is it you.

          “If you think youre a thinker & does not defy logic you should ask yourself who made you & everything around you”
          You still have to prove that question has any sense.

          “I vow you and all the Athiests are fools who claims they know every thing”
          I don’t think so. I, at least, don’t claim that.

          “…yet they are only guessing & they are also not confident with what they believe”
          WE are only guessing? What were bible writers doing? And… we don’t believe.

          • Solomon

            Dear Francesc
            [“Is it us or you are the unthinking dogmatist…”
            Is it you.]
            I still insist that it is you (if you still asking that stupid question)
            [“If you think youre a thinker & does not defy logic you should ask yourself who made you & everything around you”]
            You still have’nt answere these questions,why, because you want to defy the truth.You still insist that lousy big bang theory create you and your forefathers.Not even a child or a mad man will accept this.
            [You still have to prove that question has any sense.]
            I don’t have to prove that question have any sense.If you ask somebody who make this table.Some one may answere,oh…that table is made by John or Henry.Nobody would say..that table was somehow developed by a ‘Big Bang’ recently.That is a simple item, only a table.How about yourself,the insects,the intricate universe.A big Bang would create that?I guarantee only a neuclear bomb will destroy most of them.Can’t you see that your senses is corrupt.
            [“I vow you and all the Athiests are fools who claims they know every thing”
            I don’t think so. I, at least, don’t claim that.]
            It’s fortunate for you not claiming that.You will sway even further from the right path if you claim that.
            [“…yet they are only guessing & they are also not confident with what they believe”
            WE are only guessing? What were bible writers doing? And… we don’t believe.]
            Yes I assure you & your scholars are only guessing.It’s good enough for you not to believe the Bible coz it is not the true book.The Bible is the rewritten version of the Holy book of the true TORAH.A lot of changes have been depicted from the Torah to fit into the Bible.You should read the Qoran,which rereveils the truth.
            Excuse me for my harsh words.I am just sponsoring the truth,to save you all from the fires of hell.I get no return for sponsoring these.The only return is from God Almighty.

            • LRA

              Wow, your atrocious English makes you hard to follow, but your faulty logic makes you impossible to understand.

              Why don’t you do some real scholarly reading?

              http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth/

              It’s about truth– which I’m rightly skeptical of you actually possessing… come back and talk when you have something logical to say…

            • Solomon

              Ah..Ha..Now you’re turning the table by twisting the facts, are’nt you LRA?
              I don’t have to be an English literaturelist, or scientist ,naturalists, a mathematician or even a magician to proof what is facts or what is lie.I just need to be a simple man who does’nt have to go around spreading ideas that is of no proof of its genuity & sources created wildly by your scholars.I talk in simple English yet youre saying its hard to follow or logic that’s impossible to understand?It’s just your heart thats too proud or too ungrateful to accept!
              There you are…ha..ha..always have that SKEPTICAL thought inside you.Always skeptical even to God!, who pours the rain for you to drink,supply the Oxygen with its intricate composition for you to breath & live without having to process it to suit your lungs needs.Grows in abundance a lot of cereals, fruits & meat for you to fill your belly.Yet your skeptical mind or heart simply defy God by simply closing your eyes & quote that bloody simple word Nature which have the power of creation.Your so called scholarly reading is just a retoric word to proof your point.Is what I have said above illogical or faulty?Don’t simply use the word.Think!I’am not speaking rubbish.I’am adapting from the true source,the words of God Almighty.

            • Solomon

              Ah..Ha..Now you’re turning the table by twisting the facts, are’nt you LRA?
              I don’t have to be an English literaturelist, or scientist ,naturalists, a mathematician or even a magician to proof what is facts or what is lie.I just need to be a simple man who does’nt have to go around spreading ideas that is of no proof of its genuity & sources created wildly by your scholars.I talk in simple English yet youre saying its hard to follow or logic that’s impossible to understand?It’s just your heart thats too proud or too ungrateful to accept!
              There you are…ha..ha..always have that SKEPTICAL thought inside you.Always skeptical even to God!, who pours the rain for you to drink,supply the Oxygen with its intricate composition for you to breath & live without having to process it to suit your lungs needs.Grows in abundance a lot of cereals, fruits & meat for you to fill your belly.Yet your skeptical mind or heart simply defy God by simply closing your eyes & quote that bloody simple word Nature which have the power of creation.Your so called scholarly reading is just a retoric word to proof your point.Is what I have said above illogical or faulty?Don’t simply use the word.Think!I’am not speaking rubbish.I’am adapting from the true source,the words of God Almighty.
              (Fail to publish;this is another version)

            • Francesc

              yeah, one of the most attractive properties of religion is that you don’t need even to read. Years of study? Forget it! See Solomon here, he knows because… because…
              Unreasonable faith strikes again!

            • John C

              Fransesc…

              Aren’t you a physicist?

            • Kodie

              @Solomon: “I talk in simple English”

              No, you really don’t.

              “yet youre saying its hard to follow or logic that’s impossible to understand?It’s just your heart thats too proud or too ungrateful to accept!”

              No, that’s not it. Your god is telling you lies.

  • Solomon

    Hold it! Just hold it…not too fast Francesc,
    There you are, even if you live for a thousand years or read piles of your Masters books you would not understand even maybe the simplest of Gods creation, let say your “shit”.Yes your shit that comes from your intestine, and God knows that fact.You don’t have to go far as of discussing Big Bang,no need,you’ll be more confused.Oh…I think you are the one who ought to do more reading.God asks human to do more than reading,to study anything you can think off, its depicted in the Qoran,in Gods own words.But he understands no soul can catch up with many knowledge in a short life time.In fact the first word he thought the Prophet Mohammad is “Read Mohammad,Read..in the name of Allah the most gracious,the most merciful(you can find this phrase in the Qoran).
    The Prophet is someone who does’nt know how to read or to write,but he has a pure soul that even the highest of knowledge is poured into his heart.That’s why God send this Prophet to tell all the human the wondrous,the magic,of God’s creation.I’ve warned you Francesc don’t
    simply quote silly retoric words,it will eat you back.Is this what you call unreasonable faith?Sorry for my harsh words. I’am just giving you an insight.And if you have’nt know God also explains what you understand by Big Bang theory.Only your Atheists scholars is afraid & worry to reveil them.Read them yourself in the Qoran.I can always guide anybody who want’s to search for truth.

    • Francesc

      You have still to prove that there exists such an entity wich you can identify as “God”.
      “God asks human to do more than reading,to study anything you can think off”
      That sentence reminds me of the cultural developement muslims achieved around s. XVIII. But it reminds me too the destruction of Alexandria’s library, because all the knowledge we need is in the Quran. Fundamentalism is a dangerous path to follow.

      You have said that the Bible is full of lies, unlike Quran or Torah. How do you know? How can you distinguish between the True and a lie? Lots of christians are so certain about their beliefs as you are, because God let’s him distinguish the true with their hearts. You claim the same, but the outcome is a different true.
      Both, christians and muslims are being delusional, because they put their beliefs before their logic. I’d rather distinguish the true -an approximation to a practical knowledge- with my mind that with my blood-pumping organ (being figurative here).

      • Solomon

        Impatient for my reply Dear Francesc,
        Does’nt what you see or touch around you enough to prove that there is God.Is that ‘all’ Real enough or Logic enough?As I’ve depicted earlier there ‘must be a creator’ in a certain creation.A table or your ring does not pop up by itself.That’s the simplest of logic that everybody or even you will accept.Now can you imagine
        does this wondrous intricate creation around you will simply pop itself?Think wisely…Think again & again…And God, can make you to be alive,with the soul or ‘Roh’ that he put into your body and suddenly a dead body becomes alive n kickin and when he took the ‘Roh’ out suddenly the body becomes dead & moveless.Does that enough of magic to proof the existence of God?Other proof is Gods words himself depicted in the Qoran.God said..”.Oh human, I am Allah, the only God,who creates the Heavens & the Earth & everything in it” and theres many more phrase as proofs.
        Beware Francesc there is always the ‘SATAN’ around you, who will whisper to your ears & who will shake your heart not to have faith in God’s existence.
        [Both, christians and muslims are being delusional, because they put their beliefs before their logic.]
        Before I forget….I think you will take back these words after you have read my earlier explaination.And the word delusion is just another word creations,never mind…I can understand that…(you can’t get the kick out of it).
        [That sentence reminds me of the cultural developement muslims achieved around s. XVIII.]
        Oh..I pity that you have’nt know the whole part of the story of the developments of religion. Let me brief you…As I’ve mention the word”God asks human to do more than reading,to study anything you can think off”. God’s religion is not what you understands only to muslims after Prophet Mohammad.God’s religion is for all human’s and have pave the way since the First human ‘ADAM”.Adam have known since he is still in heaven that he is God’s creation.In every civillisation since Adam to Mohammad there are several prophets assign by God, to show the true path or religion to their people or subjects.So its not fair for you to say the sentence is for the cultural developement muslims achieved around s. XVIII.For the fate of the Alexandria’s library history was told that it was either destroyed by Julius Caesar,An Alexandrian themselves or Caliph Omar a moslem.Only God knows who destroys it. But God does not like people who is a destroyer,moreover books,knowledge or manuscrips that is vital to man.Surely its not the work of Caliph Omar.
        On what argument you are refering that Fundamentalism is dangerous to follow.If you feel Fundamentalism is a dangerous path to follow, than that is your view.God does not sponsor Fundamentalism.God sponsores truth, a way of life that is vital to humans,a set of laws that is fair to all beings,not to be cruel,to love the brotherhood of men.Where is the danger in that?
        Not ‘all’ the knowledge we need is in the Qoran.Some were in but many were not,thats the task for we to find,explore,investigate.God don’t spoon fed us all the time.Anyway searching,analysing,experimenting knowledge would be more interesting ain’t it?Qoran acts as a guide, so that we just can’t simply made a guess or conclusion to something that we have not found its truth yet.A guide into the real & magical world that its knowledge is beyond the reach of man, and it gave clues into probing into something.
        I know the bible is full of lies because God told it so in the Qoran.God wanted to resurface the truth which have longed been manipulated.The biggest twist in the Bible is claiming God have a Son.God is something pure and the highest, how come his life is similar to human,having family’s I suppose.And you will find many contradictions in the Bible.It was written by men to suit their own needs & due to hatred.Just imagine in their teachings, a human, a Padre or Father can forgive sins.Its an advantage to human to have this power.
        They can get abused or even corrupt being given this power.Only God can forgive sins.It’s easy to distinguish between a true or a lie Francescs.You yourself can determine it.There will always be one truth. The truth of the ‘Truth’ and the other one must be a lie.And the truth of the ‘Truth” is always sourced from Allah the Almighty.
        The Christians are deceived by their scholars and by themselves because they have shut their eyes and their ears after hearing the truth, close their minds to the succumbs of reality & logics & of mystics.We did’nt claim the same with the christians,we claim only the truth which God have put forth.Only a clean,pure,true heart can determine the truth.A sick heart will defer.
        Not every human has a strong mind that they could solely depend upon Francescs.They should be guided.Thats where God put it,to appoint a human to guide his species.God does not sent other species or Angels to send his messages.If God send angels, men might have run away in fear even before the Angels starts to speak.

        • Francesc

          Thank you Solomon
          “Does’nt what you see or touch around you enough to prove that there is God.Is that ‘all’ Real enough or Logic enough?As I’ve depicted earlier there ‘must be a creator’ in a certain creation”
          No, it’s not proof enough, as I can explain it by non-magical ways. There must be a creator for a creation, but I don’t see a creation around me.

          “does this wondrous intricate creation around you will simply pop itself?”
          Yes

          “And God, can make you to be alive,with the soul or ‘Roh’ that he put into your body”
          “Beware Francesc there is always the ‘SATAN’ around you, who will whisper to your ears & who will shake your heart not to have faith in God’s existence”
          You don’t have proofs either that there exists the soul, nor satan

          “God’s religion is for all human’s and have pave the way since the First human ‘ADAM”.Adam have known since he is still in heaven that he is God’s creation”
          The creation myth is just that, a myth. We know we evolved from extint apes.

          “So its not fair for you to say the sentence is for the cultural developement muslims achieved around s. XVIII”
          Sorry, I meant s. VIII, not XVIII. Muslims are responsible of the introduction in europe of a lot of cultural advancements. I was trying to say that your religion is not a handicap for science -at least not more than christianism is- but it depends on the people. I’m glad that you consider knowledge important, and that you don’t limit yourself to the Quran, but you know that’s not the opinion of all the muslims out there .

          “If you feel Fundamentalism is a dangerous path to follow, than that is your view.God does not sponsor Fundamentalism.”
          Crusades. Jihad. Genocide. If god does not sponsor fundamentalism, He did a pretty bad job explaining himself.

          “I know the bible is full of lies because God told it so in the Qoran.”
          And how do you know Qoran is the word of God? Because Qoran says that. So??? Neither the Bible, Torah, Qoran or Book of Mormon are proofs of anything as they are books.

          “The biggest twist in the Bible is claiming God have a Son.God is something pure and the highest, how come his life is similar to human,having family’s I suppose.”
          Well, He’s Almighty God, He can do everything. Are you saying he couldn’t have a son? Because Zeus can…

          “And you will find many contradictions in the Bible.It was written by men to suit their own needs ”
          I agree with that sentence. The problem is… the same you think about the bible, christians think about the Qoran, and I think about all “revelation books”.
          There are a lot of gods out there, the only difference between you and me is that I believe in a god less than you.

          • Solomon

            [There must be a creator for a creation, but I don’t see a creation around me.]
            Come on..you don’t see a creation around you..? John..! Simon!…anyone one there, please help me on these…our dear friend Francesc cannot see a creation around him…That is the most Blantant! irresponsible word came out from someone(excuse me).Put forth your non magical explaination if youre the person of truth!
            [“does this wondrous intricate creation around you will simply pop itself?”
            Yes]….A madman or a child would not answere like you did…
            ‘If you don’t believe there is a soul or Roh, you might have not been talking to me right now Fransesc.(being alive)Youll be a dead meat(excuse me again).And if you did not believe there is SATAN, there would have no accounts of killings,lying,cruelty,mischiefs,destruction etc. in this world.
            I don’t also have to proof that there is also “Wind”, “Gravity” or “magnetic fields” if you get my point Francesc.
            [The creation myth is just that, a myth. We know we evolved from extint apes.]
            Can you be more specific from which ape your forefathers evolve from?Is it the chimpanzee,orangutan,gorilla( I won’t choose this one),monkey or thousands or more species.
            How long does these apes have to wait before their brains & minds develope in line with their body or physique?Is it untill your masters Charles Darwin or Richard Dawkins decide so?
            Thank you & I thank God for recognizing the Muslims as you said(I don’t specify only muslims but the whole human race that is on the true path) which have contribute to cultural advancement or science.Not all muslims infact like other religion have fully understood what is tought or expected by God,but everybody including you are still in the process of learning & discovering.Let the process be a
            conclusive one without hurriedly jumped into the wrong conclusions.
            The Almighty did not do a pretty bad job explaining himself, its the human that is doing the pretty bad job of analysing or accepting it.Francesc,God says that most human are ungratefull with what God has granted them.If someone give you a present, will you be grateful to him? I don’t know about crusade, but Jihad is willing to sacrifice oneself or ones blood no other than to beholds the truth and to support or defend Gods religion.Jihad is not about going around killing other humans without course.
            Yes now what you see Qoran is a book.But before it becomes a book, ther is a process behind it.It is the word of God poured into Mohammads soul in the form of (Wahyu) or thoughts, through the mediator the Angel “Jibrail”.These thoughts are dictated by Mohammad to his followers and recorded in written form & copiled into a Qoran.These Wahyu are send by God gradually within the lifespan of the Prophet.
            You ask me how do I know Qoran is the word of God.I know because God told it so that Qoran and Torah are his true words and this is told in the Qoran.The proof of its truth was what is in its content.It makes you think,analyse and nothing is true and very true unless it contradicts.Contradictions with the realities,the logics,the mystics , and you can also analyse Qoran does not contradict.Why is the human heart so difficult to accept something which is very clear & simple in front of his eyes is because his heart is blackened by sins.(I’am not refering to any specific person).
            Francesc, God is nothing what you see or what your mind can imagine or thought of.God is different from everything or anything.Only Mohammad have met God & he could’nt even describe it.Does that shows how special is god.God to look like human??That would put God standards to shame like Zeus or Thor.What is there like Zeus or Thor one could boast about.They are both crafted by men.If a fly snatch something from them,they could not even able to get it back.Does that put some senses in you?
            I did not say anything about God could’nt have a son.I’am saying that God is too pure to be of the same standard as human,that is by having a son.
            And don’t say that again,I can’t bear see or knowing you burned in hell!!
            Lastly thank you for agreeing with me on the phrase for the many contradictions in the Bible(at lease you came to your senses). But to me I pity those who does not read the true content of the Qoran,Torah,Zabur or Injil,rather than find other books which could sway them from the right path even further.
            I now vow to you and to others that there is and surely be only one God(if not each god must have grouped his creations onto his own and the gods may have been fighting each other)that is the God of Moses,Abraham,Jesus(the real one) & Mohammad.
            It’s ALLAH the most gracious & most merciful.It’s not too late to repent.

            • Francesc

              [Put forth your non magical explaination if youre the person of truth!]
              Read. Sorry, but it’s not a narration like “Genesis” that i could explain in a few words. The beginning of the universe, the creation of galaxies, stars and finally the earth, the arise of life and his evolution to nowadays species… do you really think I can explain all that to you like “Goddidit”? You can surely find divulgation books about those matters, if you are really interested in.

              [A madman or a child would not answere like you did]
              Nop. They may answer that God pop itself, and then He created the universe.

              [And if you did not believe there is SATAN, there would have no accounts of killings,lying,cruelty,mischiefs,destruction etc. in this world.]
              Simply humankind, why do you need more?

              [I don’t also have to proof that there is also “Wind”, “Gravity” or “magnetic fields” if you get my point Francesc.]
              There is a little difference between existing non visible things and non-existing non visible things. I can prove the firsts, i can test his effects once and again when I want, I can even measure them. You can’t test nor god either satan.

              [Can you be more specific from which ape your forefathers evolve from?Is it the chimpanzee,orangutan,gorilla( I won’t choose this one),monkey or thousands or more species.]
              It’s none of nowadays species. It was a common ancestor of all the apes we know now.

              [How long does these apes have to wait before their brains & minds develope in line with their body or physique?Is it untill your masters Charles Darwin or Richard Dawkins decide so?]
              Are you kidding right? Even a little child could understand that the evolution of a species from another doesn’t mean that the previous species should disappear.

              [Jihad is not about going around killing other humans without course]
              I suppose we have different definitions about the word “killing” then.

              [It is the word of God poured into Mohammads soul in the form of (Wahyu) or thoughts, through the mediator the Angel “Jibrail”.]
              You can only know that because Mohammads said so. The little green leprechauns on my fridge said me that I’m the next prophet. I expect you to acknowledge that and behave according to my words.

              [Only Mohammad have met God & he could’nt even describe it.Does that shows how special is god]
              Or does it show how little imagination had Mohammad?

              [What is there like Zeus or Thor one could boast about.They are both crafted by men.]
              Facts are, we have the same proofs of the existence of Zeus, Thor and Allah’s. Maybe -only saying- Allah’s is just as crafted by men as Zeus.

              [And don’t say that again,I can’t bear see or knowing you burned in hell!!]
              Thanks for your concern, I aprecciate it. But if it exists an almighty and fair god, he won’t send me to hell :-)

            • Solomon

              Ha ha ha…My dear Francesc,
              Do you think you can escape with what you have said.Let me tell you how your words have trapped you…Don’t panic..! Take a deep breath first….
              [Sorry, but it’s not a narration like “Genesis” that i could explain in a few words.]
              You know why you cannot explain it, because you or your scholars are a weak human being compared to God, who can explain it in simple terms,who understands his own creations,who knows its secrets.Because GODDIDIT! And what will happen after this Fransesc, the FUTURE…if youre the human of truth…Richard Dawkins .have any comments on this?And you can’t even answer the simple question,who gave you life?
              At least the madman or the child have a more decent answere than what you did,I can understand they use the word POP up,but still they recognise the existence of God…
              [You can only know that because Mohammads said so.]
              It’s not as simple as what you put it Francesc.Mohammad did’nt even know how to read or write, or even study basic principles of science.Does it occur to you that a man of that background could come out with something so poetic,so scientific,so logic,that even the most prolific scientist can come out during his time and that was around 1800 years ago!He talk about the Universe,Science,how human came about,from the sperm,the Laws,the stories of the past & even what will happen in the future and many more if you read the Qoran.
              [You can’t test nor god either satan.]
              Yes youre right.God or Satan is not like any test tube experiment that could be tested.God is too pure to be compared,not to mention the word tested(its not fit for God), while Satan is made from the tounges of fire.So what’s the use of testing, if it cannot be tested.But we can feel its existence.How?Gods existence is with his creations & satans existence with the evil deeds inflicks upon one.
              You say[It’s none of nowadays species. It was a common ancestor of all the apes we know now.].You imply that previous species have extinct.
              [Are you kidding right? Even a little child could understand that the evolution of a species from another doesn’t mean that the previous species should disappear.]..Now you say the previous species does not dissapear!
              Caught you red handed…
              And another thing…why not it be the other way round,why not apes evolve from human & the human become extinct.Would it be more exciting the world became the “planet of the apes”(I like that movie).Charles Darwin will cry from his grave.Or Richard Dawkins must have witnessed when men becomes apes??
              [Or does it show how little imagination had Mohammad?]
              Oh..I’am gonna laugh at this…ha ..ha..ha..let me finish my laugh…
              Ok…I’ve told you earlier that “God is nothing what you see or what your mind can imagine or thought of. God is different from everything or anything.”
              How the hell Mohammad could describe it!!God’s comparable to Nothing!!
              Ha ha ha… (x 10 to the power of infinity.)
              [Allah’s is just as crafted by men as Zeus.]
              Emm..who do I call …Michaelangelo!…Leonardo Da Vinci! can you craft for me the image of Allah??…They would probably answer…Are you NUTS!!
              Now back to serious matters…
              I’am very concern you or anybody going to be burned in hell because its a place where nobody wants to be.Why not simply choose the splendour of heaven.Its very simple to go there.All God wants is only recognition,and gratefulness.Not to worship anything else but only him.Get back to God,he will forgive you all.Come back before its too late.Be a simple human Francesc,life is too short…Don’t make a mockery out of yourself..You cannot challenge God with science,science is a chicken feed subject to God.
              Allah is most gracious & most mercifull,most intelligent & many more,he won’t simply sent anybody to hell without cause..But he will sent to hell those who commits the greatest Sin that is …Those who take other Gods rather than only him & those who deny his existence.
              Francesc I’am getting exhausted, all you do is only denial,you does not answere most of my questions.But for the benefit of you and others I will continue my mission for the love of human being & God.

            • Francesc

              I’m answering you all the questions I can, but the one when you are demanding me to summarize in a few words physics, astronomy, chemic and biology. If you really want to know, there are lots of books about those sciences; I’m not the best one to explain that, and you won’t understand at all when summarized.

              [And you can’t even answer the simple question,who gave you life?]
              No one gave me life. Why should be a “who”? Life is “only” chemical processes working together.

              [At least the madman or the child have a more decent answere than what you did,I can understand they use the word POP up,but still they recognise the existence of God…]
              They have a more decent answer because they agree with your fairy tales. Great argument.

              [Does it occur to you that a man of that background could come out with something so poetic,so scientific,so logic,that even the most prolific scientist can come out during his time and that was around 1800 years ago]
              Greeks where doing non-written poetry before christ. Maybe even around 1.500 years before Mohammad. That’s supposed to be the origin of illyad (iliada? I don’t know the name in english).
              The scientific and logic part… bullshit. Give me an example of a thing mohammad said -and it’s true- in the Qoran that we can’t find in previous philosophers/scientists.

              [Gods existence is with his creations & satans existence with the evil deeds inflicks upon one]
              No, it’s not. Evil deeds are result of our humankind and natural causes. You can’t use the existence of god to prove the creation and the creation to prove the existence of god; I’m pretty sure that’s not the logic Mohammad explained to you in the Qoran.

              [You imply that previous species have extinct]
              [Now you say the previous species does not dissapear!]
              That’s what happens when you try to simplify, the other person may miss something. My bad, I thought you could understand it.
              We know previous species have extinct. Dinosaurs, as an example. But it’s not necessary for a previous specie to dissapear. It doesn’t happen always. And of course it doesn’t happen at the same time. Do you understand the difference between “always” and “sometimes”, don’t you?

              That’s again a simplification, please before answering that, read a little more about our evolution. You will find plenty of books or internet resources speaking about it.
              We evolved from a species similar -in some characteristics- to nowadays ape species; as chimps are the closer specie to us, probably that specie was also similar to chimps. Some of them evolved into a more human-like ape. Some of them evolved into chimps-like apes “later”. And the human-like ape (probably very close to Australophitecus) evolved into human.
              Chimps are still evolving, if they don’t extinguish it will arise another species from them. But there is not any necessity for this species to be more human-like. There is not any necessity for this future species to be more smart, either.

              [Why not it be the other way round,why not apes evolve from human & the human become extinct]
              It could have happened that way. Humans could have appeared and then become extinct (by a disease, a natural disaster or by being killed by another species). But as we are still here, that means we are not extinct and it didn’t happened.

              In fact, we are not the only human species that has been around. As I’ve said before, there was Australophitecus before. Homo Habilis too. Homo Erectus. They are our ancestors, so I don’t know if you want to use the word “extinct” for them. Strictily speaking they are extinct, but we may be their descendants. But there where too Neanderthals. That’s a human species we didn’t came from, it’s another branch that became extinct and lost, probably because of the competition of our own ancestors.

              [I’ve told you earlier that “God is nothing what you see or what your mind can imagine or thought of. God is different from everything or anything.”]
              They are a lot of unexisting things you can’t imagine.

              [Emm..who do I call …Michaelangelo!…Leonardo Da Vinci! can you craft for me the image of Allah??…They would probably answer…Are you NUTS!!]
              Probably not. They have represented God in different ways. An arm coming from a cloud. An old beraded man surrounded by light. If they didn’t represented Allah is because they were christians, and because your religion explicitly forbids it, under death punishment.
              But that’s a childish argument you are doing here. The fact that his image has not been crafted doesn’t mean that the idea of your God wasn’t created by human minds.

              [All God wants is only recognition,and gratefulness]
              It’s not fair. He must know I have the same amount of proof about the existence of Allah than about the existence of christian God, Zeus, Thor or Ra. If he want recognition he should have offered me proofs, or have done me a religious fundie, without the ability to use logic. I’m mind-opened, when he speaks to me I will answer his call. But let me say… that probably won’t happen, because he probably doesn’t exist.

            • Jabster

              I’m calling Poe on Solomon …

            • Solomon

              What do you mean by Poe Jabster?
              I don’t get the meaning.Can you clarify

            • Francesc

              Poe’s law. You can check on wikipedia, but basically Jabster is saying that you are not a true believer, but a troll having fun here.

              I don’t agree. I think Poe’s law applies in a religious site, not here.

            • Solomon

              On what argument you are refering me as an unbeliever or
              a troll having fun Jabster?

            • Francesc

              He may think no one can have such delirious ideas about God. I don’t expect so much from human mind :-p

  • Solomon

    Sorry Francesc,
    I will like to correct this mistake
    [Or Richard Dawkins must have witnessed when men becomes apes??] to
    [Or Richard Dawkins must have witnessed when ape becomes men??

  • Solomon

    Prave
    I’ve browse through your comments and I find it “ah youre refering to the wrong source or choice of books”
    to make your point, but not to dissapoint you I try to solve your curiosity.
    You are saying I’am going to hell based on the book that you are refering to…
    (Bible or whatsoever)
    Its not that simple.You or I or anybody will go to Hell, if and only if they are infidel,
    they take other gods as god rather than Allah almighty,or they commit a lot of sins and fail to repent before they die.
    Kurt Godels theorem prooves nothing, he is just confusing himself &
    others.He just creates his sets of Law, base on mathemathics & go round
    & round within his scope & try to make it to fit his theorem.I bet you’ll be more confuse at what he
    is putting forward.His mathematical background appear as if he’s a prominent figure,
    (being awarded Albert Einsteins award)an idol to represent a bunch of people who
    can’t accept the very simple logic,the
    existence of only one true God .That’s why his theorem is “incomplete”[Incompleteness Theorems](just joking…)
    The Prophet Mohammad does not need to know to read or to write, yet he is
    awarded with the most wondrous of knowledge because why, he is the man of truth
    and is always craving for,that’s why he is blessed with this special gifts.

    I don’t have to go through or comment the chapters of the Bible or whatsoever that you have mention because
    all the words are made up by your scholars.

    [But this does not help my sincere, intelligent, full of integrity atheistic friends who all have a very valid set of arguments
    - both sound and valid]
    Youre claim your Atheists friends sincere,intelligent,and have a very valid & sound set of arguments??
    I claim they are a bunch of liars,lack of thoughts,and a very lame understanding of logic.
    They can’t even answere who gave them live.Neither can you.

    Yes I support your vow of loving one another & make the world a better place to live but without a true path, a true way of life
    history have proven that this world since Adam to Mohammad have not been at peace or at ease most of the time.

    • Francesc

      “I claim they are a bunch of liars,lack of thoughts,and a very lame understanding of logic”
      Well, at least I don’t think you are a liar.

      • Solomon

        Francesc,
        If you don’t think I’am a liar then why is it so hard to believe what I’ve said….?
        Kah….kah ….kah….
        Excuse me……

      • Solomon

        Fransecs,
        I will attend to your May 26,5.39 am comments later since I’am quite busy with
        work right now.Thank you for clarifying the word Poe on behalf of Jabster.

      • Francesc

        I think you have been misguided, of course :-)
        I will try to follow your comments, but sometimes I lose the line of a debate because of blog’s structure and simultaneusly debating

  • Solomon

    Kodie,
    [@Solomon: “I talk in simple English”No, you really don’t.]
    Is this the only thing you have to say?
    Are you afraid to elaborate?
    If my God is telling me lies what you see around you,including yourself is also lies,not real.

  • http://my.opera.com/dovish Sister Twister

    All I want to say is : Naughty-Nun-Fun. Cum and get me boys!

  • http://my.opera.com/dovish Sister Twister

    I just want to say : Naughty-Nun-Fun. Cum and get me boys !

    • Solomon

      Sister Twister,
      Don’t behave like a hooker, and like a nun either.

      • Karleigh

        Don’t tell people what to do.

  • Solomon

    Dear Francesc,

    All the books or knowledge on science, chemistry or biology that you are suggesting me indeed contain
    surplus of information which men have painstakingly search or compiled.But God knows more than that.
    He create us and the Universe.He knows everything,the things you see or cannot see.The
    things that are real or hidden.But nothing can surpassed Gods words that is the Qoran.

    [No one gave me life. Why should be a “who”? Life is “only” chemical processes working together.]

    What??…Do I hear it right? No one gave you life??!!
    Have you or anybody ever wonder or think how they came about to be alive?Is it a dream or is it real.
    A black man may ask…..Hey..maan…who brought me here maan…I don’t want to be in this hectic world maan…
    I just want to be coool…maan..Everybody and in some parts of their life would think of this,how they came about
    to exists. Earlier you said…
    [“does this wondrous intricate creation around you will simply pop itself?”
    Yes]
    You said Yes.If youre not just only speaking can your ice-cream just pop itself?
    That’s where the question arise, who prepare my ice-cream?
    That also pose the question who gave me life?
    Its not wise or smart to say why there should be a “who”.
    And what nonsense life is only chemical processes working together.
    Bring me the hydrochloric acid,mix it with some gel,a spice of sodium chloride,wow..now it
    have grown into a jelly blob..But wait…Can it just ‘only’ crawl on it’s belly?

    [They have a more decent answer because they agree with your fairy tales. Great argument.]
    If they were all fairy tales then I’am not here to tell them.

    Iliad are only epic poems on the Trojan wars,though claim as the masterpiece in Greek Literature,
    but depict heroic & timeless themes.It also talk about Gods, Zeus and its familys.Even though
    its writings is way behind Mohammads periods but its contents is way behind the truths contain in the Qoran.

    [The scientific and logic part… bullshit. Give me an example of a thing mohammad said -and it’s true-
    in the Qoran that we can’t find in previous philosophers/scientists.]

    Theres plenty and one of it says God creates everything, and that includes your Shitt !!!
    Can you find anything close to it in the previous philosophers/scientists Francesc?? CAN YOU???

    [No, it’s not. Evil deeds are result of our humankind and natural causes.]
    Do you claim that raping,robbery,treachery,genocide are results of mankind & natural causes?
    Are you on their side?They should get themselves a job rather than robbing,get themselve a wife
    rather than raping & stop killing innocent women or children for their political or personal interests.

    [You can’t use the existence of god to prove the creation and the creation to prove the existence of god;
    I’m pretty sure that’s not the logic Mohammad explained to you in the Qoran.]
    I can also imply it this way;
    You can’t use the existence of the Carpenter to prove that Table creation and the Table creation
    to prove the existense of the Carpenter.Now does that make sense?

    [They are a lot of unexisting things you can’t imagine.]…(is this again the slip of your mind?)
    Of course..how can you imagine things that does not exists.I could understand that.
    But God, the purest,the highest,exists, yet nobody can imagine what he’s like, even the Prophet
    who have met him.Caught you again….
    Solomon:2 vs Francesc:nil (just for humour)
    God is the most and the very most intelligent Francesc.If Gods image is depicted like those idols you see
    around, or it might even be Thor or Zeus,…not forgetting Ra(sorry Ra, I almost miss you),
    someone may have put a piece of shit on his nose, and he will not be able to wipe it out.
    And one more thing,no one or artist came across their mind to depict a potrait of Mohammad during his lifetime,
    & if that happens, his enemies might have set on fire or stepped on his photos today.

    First you imply that previous species have extinct.
    Then you say the previous species does not dissapear!
    [But it’s not necessary for a previous specie to dissapear].
    And now youre saying it’s not necessarry for them to dassapear!!
    Which one is final Francesc?
    Am I the one who fails to understands ones slip of the mind OR
    are you the one who have become inconsistent with your uncoach views?

    If your ancestors is the ape Francesc,why have your ancestors forgets to fuck their ‘wifes’
    front to front?Oh…nevermind,they may prefer what have been the practice of other or all
    of their animal friends don’t they?And do the humans have forgotten how to use their feets
    to hold things or put their food into their mouth?Animals will always be animals don’t they.
    And why other animals does not evolve into human?Why only choose the ape?
    You may probably answer the ape is much close in appearance with human.
    Is that so difficult for God to create, an animal which looks so close to human?

    [But that’s a childish argument you are doing here. The fact that his image has not been crafted doesn’t
    mean that the idea of your God wasn’t created by human minds.]

    Let me see…how about start imagining God with the ‘ nose’ I presumed.Is that what you mean?
    You can imagine anything you like, but not the slightest is equivalent to God.

    [If he want recognition he should have offered me proofs, or have done me a religious fundie, without the
    ability to use logic. I’m mind-opened, when he speaks to me I will answer his call.]

    Who are we Francesc to make the rules around here.We are no more disdain than the dust compared to God.
    It’s already too fortunate God supply us with oxygen.God’s gifts are aplenty.If all the water in the seas & the oceans were ink,
    and another world of sea water is added,it would still not enough to write the amount of Gods gift .
    Even in a country,or community or institution we are
    subjected to certain rules & regulations.This is the kingdom of God were talking about.It should run according to his system.
    Yes you may have proof about the existence of the functionless christian God, Zeus, Thor or Ra.
    Do you expect Zeus, Thor or Ra to create the Universe,to run its systems.They can’t even create themselves.They
    are motionless idols created or crafted by men.What a silly God one would depend upon.
    Allah address himself to humans through his messenger Mohammad.Is’nt that enough of proof or religious fundie?
    I don’t thing a King would go through that rigorous details as in the Qoran to address his subjects.
    But God laid it all down…For US,and for YOU!

    Now do I sound like a fundamental religious fundie or a troll having fun.(have you anything to say Jabster?)

    We have been so much indulge in a heated argument Francesc.Let me tell you, truth will always resurface.Its
    in the system,like the earths movement,the laws of gravity,which will always fits regardless time or space.We
    cannot challenge it.And we can’t find any contradictions.This argument is not about who wins or who lose.It’s all
    about finding the true path.Try to find Gods path.He will answer your call or prayer if you exercice a little bit patience.

    Now let me tell the brighter side of it to cheer everybody up.Today I like to tell a little bit about heaven.
    The inhabitants of heaven will be dressed in green thin or thick silk.They will be circulated with glasses
    and jars containing the water from the spring call “salsabil”.The water is whitish in color & have an excellent taste,
    They are shaded by the trees of heaven which bears fruits which is easy & convenient to pluck.And below them
    flows a river.There are four rivers,the river of milk,wine(non-intoxicated),honey and non-salty taste.
    They will be surrounded by forever young ‘Bidadari” or beautiful young women.Thats for all in these session.
    More of these stories will come later

    I will off on weekends,see in another 2 days.

  • Francesc

    All the books or knowledge on science, chemistry or biology that you are suggesting me indeed contain
    surplus of information which men have painstakingly search or compiled]
    Then, when those books contradict the histories told in an ancient book, what should we do?

    [He create us and the Universe]
    Mohammad’s God or christian’s God? Or the FSM? How can you distinguish that allegedly creator?

    [Have you or anybody ever wonder or think how they came about to be alive?]
    Part of it is called “abiogenesys”. It’s still far from being the final answer, but science is working on finding it.

    [If youre not just only speaking can your ice-cream just pop itself?]
    [You can’t use the existence of the Carpenter to prove that Table creation and the Table creation
    to prove the existense of the Carpenter]
    Can your God just pop itself? Who created your God? I suppose your answer is that God existed always. My answer is the universe existed “always” in some form.
    Or should I pray GGod, who created God? Because anything come from nothing, ya know.

    [...but its contents is way behind the truths contain in the Qoran]
    Still waiting for that prove

    [F: Give me an example of a thing mohammad said -and it’s true- in the Qoran that we can’t find in previous philosophers/scientists.]
    [S:Theres plenty and one of it says God creates everything, and that includes your Shitt !!!]
    When I said true I was meaning with testable evidence. Your example has two problems. One is that you still have to prove it being true. The second is that there are plenty of creation myths in other cultures, far before the Qoran. So indeed, we can find that in previous writers.

    [Do you claim that raping,robbery,treachery,genocide are results of mankind & natural causes?]
    Yes. But being “natural” doesn’t mean being “right”. I’m not on their side, but they are not doing anything an animal couldn’t do.

    [But God, the purest,the highest,exists, yet nobody can imagine what he’s like, even the Prophet
    who have met him.Caught you again….]
    Again… I don’t believe your God exists, you still have to prove that assertion

    [Solomon:2 vs Francesc:nil (just for humour)]
    Lol, that’s your opinion, I don’t agree.

    [someone may have put a piece of shit on his nose, and he will not be able to wipe it out]
    Because they don’t exist, nor your god exist.

    [his enemies might have set on fire or stepped on his photos today]
    That was my point too. Your religion forbids his representation.

    [First you imply that previous species have extinct.
    Then you say the previous species does not dissapear!
    And now youre saying it’s not necessarry for them to dassapear!!
    Which one is final Francesc?]
    I’ve explained that to you before, please read again my previous comment. It’s not so hard to understand.

    [If your ancestors is the ape Francesc,why have your ancestors forgets to fuck their ‘wifes’
    front to front?]
    ?? You may want to try other positions than the classic one. Only suggesting, you can do with your sexual life wathever you want.

    [And do the humans have forgotten how to use their feets to hold things or put their food into their mouth?]
    Our feets evolved to do more easy the bipedal locomotion.

    [Animals will always be animals don’t they]
    Indeed. They don’t digi-evolve into another thing, they evolve across generations. Anyway, humans are also animals.

    [And why other animals does not evolve into human?Why only choose the ape?]
    Science. It’s been proven, they are the animals most related to us.

    [Is that so difficult for God to create, an animal which looks so close to human?]
    It’s not, a magical explanation is an allowance to do anything. God could have created us with wings, too, and they could be pretty useful. But your God lacks off imagination.

    [You can imagine anything you like, but not the slightest is equivalent to God]
    Only because Qoran says so?

    [They are motionless idols created or crafted by men.What a silly God one would depend upon]
    Just like yours, I agree

    [Allah address himself to humans through his messenger Mohammad.Is’nt that enough of proof or religious fundie?]
    It’s religious fundie, as we don’t know if Mohammad was saying the truth, if it was real or part of his imagination.

    [I don’t thing a King would go through that rigorous details as in the Qoran to address his subjects]
    Was Mohammad a king before creating his religion? I didn’t knew that. Anyway, kings of all historical periods have written -or ordered to write- lots of rubbish.

    [We have been so much indulge in a heated argument Francesc.Let me tell you, truth will always resurface]
    I agree, the problem here is who has the truth? Me, you or christians?

    [They will be surrounded by forever young ‘Bidadari” or beautiful young women]
    I always have asked myself if those “Bidadari” were humans, with free will, or not. Can they choose his partner? What happens with your wife when she dies, how is her heaven?

    have a nice weekend and see you on monday!

    • Karleigh

      …it’s seriously not worth your time dude. You can’t argue with this person.

  • http://www.amplitudoinquisitor.blogspot.com Joshua Slade

    Thanks for this website. I view many of these blogs and wanted to submit my blog to you for consideration. Any comments to help improve it would be appreciated. Thanks.

  • Solomon

    Dear Francesc,
    I cannot answere all your comments in one shot,now I’am busy doing office work.I will answere them gradually when time permits.

    [?? You may want to try other positions than the classic one. Only suggesting, you can do with
    your sexual life wathever you want.]
    You are not answering my question.You are escaping from it.You are giving a bullshit answere.
    The point that I want to imply is why the ape & other animals does’nt know how to fuck their mate front to front
    like their’ what you imply as their ape predecessor(HUMAN).’
    You know why?Thats what I say animals will always be animals,their behaviour are different from humans.
    No matter how your master(Charles Darwin) twisted it,there will always be contradictions.

    [Our feets evolved to do more easy the bipedal locomotion.]
    Other animals including the ape have exercise bipedal locomotion long time ago,then
    what does it have to do with the shortening of the human toe compared with the ape.
    Evolution seems to have choose to maintain the apes finger length & shortened its toe?
    Other animals have existed much as the same time as the ape,why don’t they evolve as drastic as the ape,
    as they become human?
    Animals are always animals but humans are not animals.God created Adam in its finest form,with all the beauties,in fact one of God’s most wondrous creations, even more honorable than his angels,not like the one with the hairy coat and scratching its body most of the time.
    All the viewers out there, you have witnessed the lie the Atheists try to inflick upon you all.

  • Solomon

    Francesc,

    Today I can only answer the other part of your queries,the rest God willing I’ll try to finish it off some other time.

    {[Have you or anybody ever wonder or think how they came about to be alive?]
    Part of it is called “abiogenesys”. It’s still far from being the final answer, but science is working on finding it.}

    Abiogenesis, or origin of life, is just the study of how life on Earth could have arisen from inanimate matter.
    And they won’t find the answer they are trying to work out “lets say give them a billion years”than
    accepting the answer that God had laid down.
    You can borrow any word from abiogenesys to aborigenys or whatsoever,but the bottomline it will
    still poses the ultimate question,who gave every living creature ‘LIFE’,whether it’s a microbe,a micro-organism,
    a germ, a bacteria,a virus or any living things from the smallest to the biggest & that includes the angels & the Satans.
    The answere is God.God gave them life when he puts the “Roh” into every dead body.And you will even wonder to
    know that in every, yes every living soul there is a ‘being’ that is always on guard to that living soul.That
    being is Gods angels.So be aware, someone is eyeing on you.

    [Can your God just pop itself? Who created your God? I suppose your answer is that God existed always.
    My answer is the universe existed “always” in some form.
    Or should I pray GGod, who created God? Because anything come from nothing, ya know.]

    Oh my…Ahh…That is difficult #@*!….No….just kidding.The answer is very simple Francesc.
    That’s the speciality of God.
    I think I have told you a few times and I bet you still remember that
    “God is nothing what you see or what your mind can imagine or thought of. God is different from everything or anything.”
    So you cannot compare the existence of God with the existence of other things.God exists before the existence
    of the Universe or anything else.And the Universe will not existed ‘always’.It has a beginning & it will have its end.
    The beginning of the Universe is when God builds it and the end of the
    Universe is the ‘Kiamath’ where everything will be destroyed and that includes his angels except Allah.Allah existed on his own.
    Theres no beginning & no end to Allah’s existence.Now its difficult…..ain’t it.Gods different from everything &
    anything.I’ve said it earlier Francesc.You can’t imagine it…..

    [I agree, the problem here is who has the truth? Me, you or christians?]
    If you agree,neither you nor the Christians have the absolute truth.
    Only God has the truth.And I am with God.And to know what is truth is for sure truth
    will not contradict.
    [My answer is the universe existed “always” in some form.]
    There again you can’t answer in what form it existed.Humans are very weak in every aspects
    compared to God.They cannot grasp let say a minute fraction of Gods knowledge.Thats why God
    told them as in the Qoran.

    [Solomon:2 vs Francesc:nil (just for humour)]
    Lol, that’s your opinion, I don’t agree.

    Ahh…I don’t have to comment on this.

    [They will be surrounded by forever young ‘Bidadari” or beautiful young women]
    I always have asked myself if those “Bidadari” were humans, with free will, or not. Can they choose his partner?
    What happens with your wife when she dies, how is her heaven?

    In heavens each man is granted with 72 bidadari’s.Not to say the bidadari’s can chose their partner,every bidadari
    will be full of love to this one man.And the man can choose which bidadari he wants to be with(I will choose all at one time)
    What will happen to our wife or wives?Women may happen to have more than one husband at the same or different time on earth.
    If she is destined to heaven she will choose only one of their best husband to be with.
    Men also may have happen to have more than one wife on earth.In heaven he can be with any of their wives whom
    chooses to be with him plus the bidadari’s.And also sshh…let me whisper..in heaven men have the sex drive equivalet
    to 70 normal men on earth..sshh..
    While bidadari are women God creates specially for men in heaven & of course they should be human.
    And before you ask,all that I have told you is Prophet Mohammads words,not mine.

    Francesc I think all this while you have been turning & twisting around with your views and questions
    hoping to find loopholes or contradictions in my(let say it God’s) views.I bet you can find any.You
    are just wasting your time & others.But if you did’nt know or want to know or did’nt know yet its ok.
    Get back to truth Francesc,to God’s path.Anyway we are all humans,brothers.
    I can’t bear to know any of our brothers burned in hell.You know what is hell Francesc?It is ‘Fire’ which is very Hot.
    But if you still deny, then it’s true what God says “And they will produce offsprings which will become defiant & even more infidel”

    • Solomon

      I would like to correct this,

      Women may happen to have more than one husband at the same or different time on earth.
      TO
      Women may happen to have more than one husband at different time on earth.

    • Francesc

      “The beginning of the Universe is when God builds it and the end of the
      Universe is the ‘Kiamath’ where everything will be destroyed and that includes his angels except Allah.”
      Prove it.
      I don’t have all the answers because I don’t make up the answers, unlike Mohammad -and a lot of other “prophets” before him.

      “If she is destined to heaven she will choose only one of their best husband to be with.
      Men also may have happen to have more than one wife on earth.In heaven he can be with any of their wives whom
      chooses to be with him plus the bidadari’s.”
      It’s not very symmetric, is it? Bidadari’s are human, but they are created in heaven? They choose, but they will always choose you? they seems more like robots to me.

      “let me whisper..in heaven men have the sex drive equivalet
      to 70 normal men on earth”
      Do you have problems with your sex drive?

  • prave

    Good News for you my friend.

    ALMIGHTY GOD LOVES YOU with an EVERLASTING, UNFAILING AND UNCONDITIONALLY COMMITTED LOVE FOR YOU. There is only one such God (Just One True Living God over and above all). Around 2000 years ago this God became a man. His name is Jesus. He is also called Christ which means he freely gives you never ending life and makes you part of his body if you believe in him. He also says that a person who believes in him will not be suffer any condemnation. Everyone who believes in God Jesus is eternally safe and absolutely secure as part of his own body. His/Her destiny is changed forever; He/She passes from death to life irrevocably, unchangeably, eternally. Nothing present or things to come will separate the person from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our God, the moment He/She believes in Christ for this everlasting life. This is the promise of God Jesus, for he says ‘whosoever believes in me shall never perish, but have everlasting life’. ‘Believing in Jesus’ MEANS ‘Believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God’. Will you believe in Jesus alone for this everlasting life and thus escape this impeding doom?

    What is the Gospel (Good News, Objectively factual, a real event 2000 years ago)?
    This very same Jesus who is Christ, the Son of God, the savior of the world, saved us (the world/human race) by dying on the cross for our sins, he was buried, and he rose again from the dead on the third day, and seen of six groups of people and individuals. (500 people at one time, most of whom were alive when 1 Corinthians 15’s gospel reminder was written.).
    What does it mean?
    2 Corinthians 5: 19 In other words, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting people’s trespasses against them, and he has given us the message of reconciliation.
    Which means: God, in Christ, was reconciling (receiving back into favor) the entire world (the entire human race) by not imputing (not counting our sins unto us). To whom did he count our sins to? On Christ, The Lamb of God, His Own Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who died on the cross for our sins 2000 years ago, around 30 AD. This is the only message of reconciliation. This is God’s doing. He alone did all to save us. He saved us, yes all of us. Our Salvation is a done thing. Jesus actually, really, factually saved us, for he said on the cross, ‘IT IS FINISHED’. He in fact saved us, and made us heirs to eternal life. Our salvation is an accomplished fact already. He saved us so that now we can freely (without any cost to us) enter heaven. This free gift is on us, upon us, for us, to us right now. So that without fear of death WE can freely (without any cost to us, but at the cost of the death of Son of God) joyfully enter heaven. Jesus has perfected us by the sacrifice of his physical body through death, for 2000 years ago, the Human Race has been made Holy through the sacrifice of the Body of JESUS CHRIST once for all.
    Romans 3: 23, 24 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Romans 5:8 But God demonstrate his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:18 Yes, Adam’s one sin resulted in condemnation upon everyone, even so through one act of righteousness (Jesus’ death) there resulted justification of life upon everyone.

    Jesus did all to save us from his Father’s just wrath/anger against our sin. He did it all; our salvation is an accomplished fact. Nothing can be added or removed from it. It is over, 2000 years ago. Because God the Father loved us he did this for us. He is also just and holy and he has to punish our sin, so he sent his Son Jesus, in his love for us, to take our place and He punished Jesus for us. Thus because of Jesus’ Grace (he willingly became one of us, and died for us), and his righteousness (sinlessness/perfection), and because of God the Father’s Grace, we are saved certainly, actually, really, factually, absolutely, infinitely, irrevocably, unchangeable, perfectly, completely, and for all eternity. JESUS HAS DONE ALL FOR OUR SALVATION AND HE HAS BECOME FOR US OUR ALL BEFORE GOD. Because Jesus is God in flesh he can do this for you and me (bear our sins, the wrath of God the Father, die for our sins, and rise again from the dead) He is the only Real God-Man, fully God and fully man, our last and final representative. Jesus did not sin, he died for our sins, rose again 3 days later on Resurrection Sunday around 2000 years ago (Luke 24:34 ‘The Lord is risen indeed’.) Jesus is our only hope. He is our only substitute in all of what God demands from us.
    What does Apostle Paul, or Prophet David say?
    Romans 4:6 So even David himself speaks regarding the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 4:8 blessed is the one against whom the Lord will never count sin.”
    Non Imputation of our Sin (Not Counting our sin against us, that is putting it into Christ Jesus’ account as he was hanging on the cross) in verses 7 and 8 describes/says/declares the imputation (Counting the Infinite worth of Christ Jesus into our account) of righteousness to us in verse 6.

    So the Gospel means this: God the Father forgave us (took away our sins/separated our sins from us /carried it away from us and put it on the account/head of Jesus his son) and not only that, but also at the same time, God the Father declared us righteous by putting into our account the infinite righteousness of Christ. Then His Son died as our substitute, bearing our sins, thus sealing the transaction. This He did around 30 AD, 2000 years ago. In other words God, because he loved us, put to death his own precious Son Jesus because of our sins, and raised his Son Jesus from the dead because we have been justified (Perfected: Forgiven, Not-guilty of any sin, Reconciled to God, and counted infinitely righteous, and thus having full rights and privileges of entering into heaven).

    Further References (These references can be found in the bible)
    John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world. 1 John 2:2: He himself is the atoning sacrifice (turning away God’s wrath) for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world 2 Corinthians 5:19 In other words, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting people’s trespasses against them, and he has given us the message of reconciliation. 5:20 Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His plea through us. We plead with you on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God!” 5:21 God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the righteousness of God. Hebrews 4:14 Therefore since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast to our confession. 4:15 For we do not have a high priest incapable of sympathizing with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way just as we are, yet without sin. 4:16 Therefore let us confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace whenever we need help John 3:16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. Colossians 1:15-20 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
    God placed the blame for everyone’s (the world/entire human race) sins on Jesus who suffered and died for them. God gave to these same sinners the credit for Jesus’ holiness and righteousness. Jesus took the blame for what we did wrong, and God gave us the credit for what Jesus did right. Jesus is our all; all of what He is, and what He did, is for us. It is not what you do or not do, BUT what Jesus is and did that saved us. This Salvation is all of Grace (Not what we do or don’t do, but what God IS and what HE DID that saved us). Now, my friend, you do not earn or work for this gift; All of what Jesus is and what Jesus did is God’s FREE GIFT upon you. This is the Gospel/Good News of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Romans 1: The Gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes (the Gospel). John 1: To all who RECEIVED/ACCEPTED JESUS (who BELIEVE IN HIM (who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God)), he gave the right to become children of God. Rev 22:7: Jesus said, ‘Behold, I come quickly.’ Jesus says that He is the Christ, the Son of God. He gives everlasting life, and the Holy Spirit to all who believe His statement that He is the Christ, the Son of God. (John 11:25-27, & 20:31)

  • prave

    Good News for you my friend.

    ALMIGHTY GOD LOVES YOU with an EVERLASTING, UNFAILING AND UNCONDITIONALLY COMMITTED LOVE FOR YOU. There is only one such God (Just One True Living God over and above all). Around 2000 years ago this God became a man. His name is Jesus. He is also called Christ which means he freely gives you never ending life and makes you part of his body if you believe in him. He also says that a person who believes in him will not be suffer any condemnation. Everyone who believes in God Jesus is eternally safe and absolutely secure as part of his own body. His/Her destiny is changed forever; He/She passes from death to life irrevocably, unchangeably, eternally. Nothing present or things to come will separate the person from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our God, the moment He/She believes in Christ for this everlasting life. This is the promise of God Jesus, for he says ‘whosoever believes in me shall never perish, but have everlasting life’. ‘Believing in Jesus’ MEANS ‘Believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God’. Will you believe in Jesus alone for this everlasting life and thus escape this impeding doom?

    What is the Gospel (Good News, Objectively factual, a real event 2000 years ago)?
    This very same Jesus who is Christ, the Son of God, the savior of the world, saved us (the world/human race) by dying on the cross for our sins, he was buried, and he rose again from the dead on the third day, and seen of six groups of people and individuals. (500 people at one time, most of whom were alive when 1 Corinthians 15’s gospel reminder was written.).
    What does it mean?
    2 Corinthians 5: 19 In other words, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting people’s trespasses against them, and he has given us the message of reconciliation.
    Which means: God, in Christ, was reconciling (receiving back into favor) the entire world (the entire human race) by not imputing (not counting our sins unto us). To whom did he count our sins to? On Christ, The Lamb of God, His Own Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who died on the cross for our sins 2000 years ago, around 30 AD. This is the only message of reconciliation. This is God’s doing. He alone did all to save us. He saved us, yes all of us. Our Salvation is a done thing. Jesus actually, really, factually saved us, for he said on the cross, ‘IT IS FINISHED’. He in fact saved us, and made us heirs to eternal life. Our salvation is an accomplished fact already. He saved us so that now we can freely (without any cost to us) enter heaven. This free gift is on us, upon us, for us, to us right now. So that without fear of death WE can freely (without any cost to us, but at the cost of the death of Son of God) joyfully enter heaven. Jesus has perfected us by the sacrifice of his physical body through death, for 2000 years ago, the Human Race has been made Holy through the sacrifice of the Body of JESUS CHRIST once for all.
    Romans 3: 23, 24 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Romans 5:8 But God demonstrate his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:18 Yes, Adam’s one sin resulted in condemnation upon everyone, even so through one act of righteousness (Jesus’ death) there resulted justification of life upon everyone.

    Jesus did all to save us from his Father’s just wrath/anger against our sin. He did it all; our salvation is an accomplished fact. Nothing can be added or removed from it. It is over, 2000 years ago. Because God the Father loved us he did this for us. He is also just and holy and he has to punish our sin, so he sent his Son Jesus, in his love for us, to take our place and He punished Jesus for us. Thus because of Jesus’ Grace (he willingly became one of us, and died for us), and his righteousness (sinlessness/perfection), and because of God the Father’s Grace, we are saved certainly, actually, really, factually, absolutely, infinitely, irrevocably, unchangeably, perfectly, completely, and for all eternity. JESUS HAS DONE ALL FOR OUR SALVATION AND HE HAS BECOME FOR US OUR ALL BEFORE GOD. Because Jesus is God in flesh he can do this for you and me (bear our sins, the wrath of God the Father, die for our sins, and rise again from the dead) He is the only Real God-Man, fully God and fully man, our last and final representative. Jesus did not sin, he died for our sins, rose again 3 days later on Resurrection Sunday around 2000 years ago (Luke 24:34 ‘The Lord is risen indeed’.) Jesus is our only hope. He is our only substitute in all of what God demands from us.
    What does Apostle Paul, or Prophet David say?
    Romans 4:6 So even David himself speaks regarding the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 4:8 blessed is the one against whom the Lord will never count sin.”
    Non Imputation of our Sin (Not Counting our sin against us, that is putting it into Christ Jesus’ account as he was hanging on the cross) in verses 7 and 8 describes/says/declares the imputation (Counting the Infinite worth of Christ Jesus into our account) of righteousness to us in verse 6.

    So the Gospel means this: God the Father forgave us (took away our sins/separated our sins from us /carried it away from us and put it on the account/head of Jesus his son) and not only that, but also at the same time, God the Father declared us righteous by putting into our account the infinite righteousness of Christ. Then His Son died as our substitute, bearing our sins, thus sealing the transaction. This He did around 30 AD, 2000 years ago. In other words God, because he loved us, put to death his own precious Son Jesus because of our sins, and raised his Son Jesus from the dead because we have been justified (Perfected: Forgiven, Not-guilty of any sin, Reconciled to God, and counted infinitely righteous, and thus having full rights and privileges of entering into heaven).

    Further References (These references can be found in the bible)
    John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world. 1 John 2:2: He himself is the atoning sacrifice (turning away God’s wrath) for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world 2 Corinthians 5:19 In other words, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting people’s trespasses against them, and he has given us the message of reconciliation. 5:20 Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His plea through us. We plead with you on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God!” 5:21 God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the righteousness of God. Hebrews 4:14 Therefore since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast to our confession. 4:15 For we do not have a high priest incapable of sympathizing with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way just as we are, yet without sin. 4:16 Therefore let us confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace whenever we need help John 3:16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. Colossians 1:15-20 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
    God placed the blame for everyone’s (the world/entire human race) sins on Jesus who suffered and died for them. God gave to these same sinners the credit for Jesus’ holiness and righteousness. Jesus took the blame for what we did wrong, and God gave us the credit for what Jesus did right. Jesus is our all; all of what He is, and what He did, is for us. It is not what you do or not do, BUT what Jesus is and did that saved us. This Salvation is all of Grace (Not what we do or don’t do, but what God IS and what HE DID that saved us). Now, my friend, you do not earn or work for this gift; All of what Jesus is and what Jesus did is God’s FREE GIFT upon you. This is the Gospel/Good News of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Romans 1: The Gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes (the Gospel). John 1: To all who RECEIVED/ACCEPTED JESUS (who BELIEVE IN HIM (who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God)), he gave the right to become children of God. Rev 22:7: Jesus said, ‘Behold, I come quickly.’ Jesus says that He is the Christ, the Son of God. He gives everlasting life, and the Holy Spirit to all who believe His statement that He is the Christ, the Son of God. (John 11:25-27, & 20:31)

  • solomon

    Dear Prave,
    What are you mumbling about on your June 10 comments.If youre talking to me than youre
    talking to the wrong person.It’s fortunate that you don’t agree with the Christians teachings coz some parts of the teachings is from God almighty but most parts have been twisted by the Christian scholars.Jesus is not God or son of God.Jesus is a man, a human who agree there is only one God that is Allah the Almighty.All those who says Allah have a son will be burned in hell,that includes the Christian.Its fortunate that you did’nt believe them but its still unfortunate if you did’nt believe there is God.Nobody can forgive ones sins except only God.

  • solomon

    Prave,
    I bet you still have doubts & confusion in your mind regarding religion & that ‘no god’ stuffs.That’s a good sign,it means you haven’nt found the truth yet.Search for truth,don’t run from it.It’s not easy but it’s not too hard.One things for sure truth does not contradict.Not contradict with logic or science or your heart or proofs or whatsoever. Search for it.The clue is in the holy Qoran.

  • solomon

    Francesc,
    Its been quite a while I did’nt visit this site, I stumble upon your June 15 comments.Heres what I have to say.
    I don’t have to prove when Kiamath or the end of this world will happen.You yourself can prove it if youre still alive when the time comes..Kah …kah…kah….excuse me…
    No…no…sorry…The beginning or the end of the world are all depicted by God Almighty in the Qoran.But only God knows when is its exact time..(hopefully not too near).
    [I don’t have all the answers because I don’t make up the answers, unlike Mohammad -and a lot of other “prophets” before him.]
    Mohammad or other prophets did’nt made up the answers.Its God who gave all the answers.Indeed we all, you or me or everybody does not have all the answers to everything because we all are weak, we know only a dust fraction of Gods knowledge, that’s why we need assistance, guidance,directions from God who knew everything or anything.
    Its very symmetric Francesc..Its no new stuffs bidadari is human & created in heavens.The first human,Adam is created in heaven.All humans should be in heaven at the first place.Thats the original place for humans Francesc.It’s the SATAN who have tricked human & made them being thrown out from heaven.SATAN is very jealous of the attention God gave to human.As for bidadari they will always choose you because God made them specially for you.For those who only claim Allah as God,who perform prayers,who is kind,patient,give asistence to the needy and do many other good deeds.The bidadaris are not like robots in physique or behaviour.They are real beautiful womens who have not been touched by other men or even the ‘Jinh’(Gods creature made from fire)
    They the bidadari’s is impatient(now at real time) to be with their men & will be very jealous or uncomfortable if your wife (on earth) mistreat you.Does that soothes you Francesc.In fact every truth will soothes the heart.
    If you doubt my sex drive why don’t you call some of your female friends to give it a try….
    no…no…just joking…we don’t fornicate even if its free.

  • DRUNKEN ATHEIST

    Three reasons why not to be a Christian anyway. Watch I Dare You.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS36X7aujzI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGkRFFBd0A

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mon5Ive7FmE

    Just passing through, Bye bye from Drunken Atheist.

  • Ali Kazim

    My favorite blog to read about religion and science is:

    Irtiqa (http://sciencereligionnews.blogspot.com/)

    It’s maintained by Mr Salman Hameed. We might not call it an athiest blog, but we can definitely call it a skeptic blog, in my opinion.

    Peace

  • http://www.atheist-r-evolution.com Paper

    Man, Inherently Human Blog has a long way to go to even touch up on that list. http://blog.atheist-r-evolution.com

  • Reed
  • Mohamad Abdel Razzak

    What if there was God?? What if after we die, there he is, God.. Shouldn’t that be a problem to atheist?? Even if God doesn’t exist, nobody lost anything by believing in him.. All his messages to humans were to improve their lives and help them live in this world with a certain harmony.. Think of Him as someone who asked u to be good and told u that u’ll meet again then left u alone to see whether u practice this advice.. We will meet again.. Every test must be graded.. and life is a test… I so do respect catholics and muslims and everyone who believes in god.. and i do respect atheists as i believe they have a point, but should have a stronger statement for proving that point of view.. Im sorry if i upset anyone but we should all accept each others opinions..

    Regards,
    Mohamad Abdel Razzak

    • Sunny Day

      Which god?

  • davidmabus
  • http://www.angryatheist.net AngryATHEIST
  • Charles Jackson

    I am 40 years old, was an atheist (or at least I never thought about God) until about 2 years ago, when a drunk driver ran a red light and t-boned my side of the car at about 50mph. My head smashed the driver’s side window post of my car so hard, I was instantly knocked out. Several hours after the accident, the doctors rushed me into ICU, I found myself in a very dark place. I remember being on all fours with incredible heat and pressure pushing me further down into darkness. All I could feel was pain and emotional anguish. This lasted for a few minutes. The pain, blindness and shrieking (from the untold millions of other lost human and demonic souls inhabiting that place) became unbearable. Finally, I cried out, “Please God, I know I never believed in you before but if you are alive, you can save me from this horrible place!” Within a few seconds, I was lifted out of that terrible Hell and into the warmth of pure light. I recognized the light as Christ as I had remembered being told about Him as a child while attending church. Christ moved me into heaven where I spent the next several days. (The doctors finally pulled me out of the deep coma after 3 days). This is what it was like: Infinite pleasures to experience… love… light… meaning… exuberance… intense happiness and joy. And, if I changed my ways back on earth, and let people know that we all do die and face our life-actions, Christ promised me I could have those good things for an eternity! There is no arguing in either heaven or hell, there was no such thing as opinion or politics. There were just pure… God-given consequences for everyone’s actions and belief systems. If you are a mean, angry person who uses or takes from others (or God), then you end up forever surrounded by other mean, cruel people who hate God and want nothing to do with him or good things. If you are an angel on earth (like Mother Theresa and Billy Graham or parents who raise their children in Godly homes , for example) then you will enjoy an infinite eternity surrounded by God’s goodness and the good things shared by others. God is not a micro-manager and does not want to control the actions or beliefs of others but He does want us to choose good over evil (God over the desire for ultimate nothingness) and begin good works and helping others! The consequences for our behaviors emanating from our belief systems are staggering… They are infinite in experience and eternal in destiny. Both good and bad!

    • Roger

      You have got to be kidding me with that solipsistic nonsense.
      1. You claim that you were an atheist and then conflate it with “or at least I never thought about God.” Those two are definitely not the same. Are you claiming that you at one point did not believe in the existence of supernatural deities? Or are you claiming that you did not give much credence to the commonly accepted supernatural deity (or deities) of your particular locale? Very different claims, dude.

      2. You were in a coma for 3 days (how convenient…a three day structure in which you were in “hell”); what makes you think that you experienced something other than a very realistic dream? If you dream that you ate a doughnut, do you then wake up and claim that you ate a doughnut?

      3. I call bullshit on the whole account. Something about this smells like a tactic used by evangelical Christians to “convert” atheists (the misrepresentation of atheism, the traumatic accident, the pathetically simpleminded account of “hell”).

      In other words, FAIL.

    • http://www.angryatheist.net AngryATHEIST

      You are a complete tool. Go share your experiences at church.

    • Sunny Day

      Too bad gawd couldn’t send you that experience without a car accident.

    • Karleigh

      I heard alarm bells when he said that there were no “opinions” in hell. Sounds awfully convenient for a mindset that shuns free thought…

  • Ben Capps

    You should include Craig Duckett’s Control-Z Portal at http://www.control-z.com/czp/ as it contains a wealth of information, not only examining belief systems, but an examination of the artificiality of language and cultural conditioning that “defines” supernaturalism into experience (e.g., all things considered, unlike a tree or a cloud or a rock, “God” is only a word).

  • http://thecrunchtime.blogspot.com/ The Crunch Time Blogger

    Similarities Between Christians and MLM Members.

    http://thecrunchtime.blogspot.com/2010/01/similarities-between-christians-and-mlm.html

    Check it out!

  • http://nakedatheists.blogspot.com Sarah

    I wouldn’t be vain enough to say that my blog is among the top 30 on the internet, and it’s relatively new…but worth checking out. There are a lot of interesting conversations being sparked in the comments of many of the posts. Check out The Naked Atheists

  • Jillian

    I stumbled upon your website as I was trying to research the Christian youth group, Awana. After reading some of the lists of reasons why people are atheist/agnostic, I realized there was a great deal of merit and truth to them. Hypocrites being a prime example. Christianity is based upon love and acceptance of everyone, no exceptions, yet Christians brutally judge and criticize anyone who does not share their particular beliefs. Shame on them, they are NOT representing true Christianity, and in fact they are adding to the negative views and beliefs about what Christianity is based on. Those so called Christians defeat Christianity, not promote it.

    I am a believer, therefore I am of the opinion that God gave each of us free will. I use mine to believe, others use theirs to not believe. We both have an equal right to do so, and for those of us who are bound by the laws of Christ, we are even MORE obligated to see things in this light.

    The people who say that God is the author of evil, suffering and destruction are ignorant of what the Bible has to say. No wonder these ignorant beliefs and statements turn people against God. The Bible very specifically says that in God there is no darkness….the “horrible” things in this life are not of God, but I can see where if you were to believe they were, that you would want nothing to do with a God who would do terrible things to His people.

    I just feel compelled to say that as a strong Christian believer, it is not my “job” to judge, criticize or condemn anyone or their beliefs (or lack of). Hateful words and actions are never in the true spirit of God. Never. May every “Christian” who visits this site reflect upon these words, and remember what their personal beliefs dictate. We should not judge another lest we will be judged in the same measure ourselves. To those who do not believe, these words have no specific importance or value…but to those who DO believe…h-e-l-lo!

    When people spew hate, ignorance and stupidity why in the world would you think that someone else would want to be like THAT? The best way to promote our faith is remain true to it, and act in the manner the Bible tells us to act. LOVE ONE ANOTHER, DO NOT JUDGE. That means ALL of us. No exceptions.,,,including YOU!

    I know because you are atheists, you don’t give two craps if I pray for you or not. But because I am a believer, I do believe it matters. My prayer is for you and for each and every one of us is health, happiness, forgiveness, true peace. That you are able to see the “impostors”, the “so called Christians” who spew hate and stupidity for what they really are. And that in someone who someday crosses your life path, you can see the TRUE presence and nature of God.

    And that until (and if) that happens, we all treat one another with dignity, love and respect. Hatred is destroying our world…why can’t people see that? More importantly for Christians, since hate goes against EVERYTHING the Bible you claim to base your faith upon, shouldn’t you take a step back and reconsider?

    There was just a guy in Kansas or Missouri who was convicted of first degree murder for killing an abortion clinic doctor. He said he HAD to do it for God. Well…this one is blatantly simple. First of all if you believe in God, then you know d*mn well that God commands ALL of us to not kill. So, to kill the killer ~and blame God~ is not only incorrect, it’s the kind of hypocritical thinking and behavior that non believers are accusing believers of…and they are RIGHT.

    This man is not following the Bible, he is blaming the Bible for his actions, but certainly not doing as the Bible says. People like this are “recruiters” for atheism….why would anyone want to be and act like this? If this is what God was really about, I can see why people would reject it. I would reject God if this was who God was, and what He was about.

    Just because this man says he is serving God does not make this the reality. If he were serving God, three things would have happened very differently. First of all, God says DO NOT JUDGE.
    Second of all, God says VENGEANCE IS MINE. Third of all, God says THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

    There is absolutely NO way this mans thoughts or actions were based upon God. These were purely evil and hateful actions, and he used God as his “excuse”. That does not make it true. But for those who don’t know, they believe it’s true, and they want nothing to do with a God who promotes this kind of hatred and vengeance.

    Before any “believer” posts anything mean or evil here on this site, take a moment to reflect upon this thought. Do you want to be the example that brings others TO Christ, or do you want to turn others FROM Christ? Remember, the power to do so is in your tongue (or fingers in this case)….be VERY careful with that power.

    Love, kindness, acceptance and peace to every person who reads these words!

    • Custador

      I appreciate the sentiments in your post regarding acceptance of our choice (if you can really call it a choice – do you “choose” not to believe in Zeus?) to not believe in Yahweh, but I want to make a couple of comments on it:

      “The people who say that God is the author of evil, suffering and destruction are ignorant of what the Bible has to say.”

      Well, no atheist would say such a thing, because no atheist believes that God exists. On the other hand, since you believe in the existence of a Christian God, may I ask: Have you ever read the Bible all the way through, cover to cover? Please do so if you haven’t. I can’t understand how anybody who has read the whole of the OT could both believe in God and believe him to be anything other than a petty, jealous, vindictive sadist. I’m not trying to pick an argument with that point, but it would surprise most people to realise how many Christians have never read their holy book beyond some choice passages picked out for them by a preacher.

      “My prayer is for you and for each and every one of us is health, happiness, forgiveness, true peace. “

      I accept your prayer in the spirit which it is given, but please do not be offended that I don’t believe that it has any effect other than a meditative process of reflection for yourself.

      “First of all if you believe in God, then you know d*mn well that God commands ALL of us to not kill.”

      There are many, many, many examples in scripture which contradict that sentiment, I’m sorry to say.

      “This man is not following the Bible, he is blaming the Bible for his actions, but certainly not doing as the Bible says.”

      Sounds like exactly the sort of thing that God would command in the Bible to me:
      “Samaria will bear her guilt because she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.” Hosea 13:16 (King James version).

      “Love, kindness, acceptance and peace to every person who reads these words!”

      Thank you very much. I hope your faith is a balm to you, and I hope that you will not be offended that I challenge it.

      • Jillian

        I am not offended that you challenge my faith, just as I hope you (or anyone else) is not offended that I don’t follow your particular beliefs. I have read the Bible, I realize your statement that most Christians have not read the Bible is totally accurate. I also acknowledge completely that in the Old Testament, God was a vengeful, wrathful God. Christians believe that when Jesus came, the Old Testament became obsolete, and it is the New Testament Law we are bound to. There is Scripture which substantiates this…Hebrews 8:13 “By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear”.

        This is my particular belief… In the New Testament, the law which my particular beliefs are based upon, God is a loving, forgiving and compassionate God. I’m not basing my belief system on pure ignorance, or the words of a preacher. I’m not sure why some of us have a personal experience with God, and others totally lack any connection with God. I believe you completely when you say you have absolutely none ~ and I am not judging that, nor am I attempting to change your mind or beliefs. For me, the experience has been a very different one, I know God is there. I don’t know why some of us get proof, while others do not. I do know it isn’t for me to judge.

        I was baptized and raised Catholic, and for many years rejected any sort of “religion”. I actually still do. Most “religions” are not about God, they are about money and power. The only “religion” in my life is the Bible, the New Testament in particular.

        My post was really NOT AT ALL about challenging your disbelief, or anyone else’s…it was a reaction to people(“Christians”) who get all self righteous and think that they have a God given right to criticize how you or anyone uses your free will…and then blame God for those cruel words and judgments.

        I wasn’t challenging you, or your beliefs or disbeliefs…if it came across that way, I can not apologize sincerely enough. My point was aimed at those who SAY they are Christians, and then DO the exact opposite of what a true Christian would do.

        Your reply makes me believe that you are a very nice person with a good heart. My point is exactly that….we should ALL be nice people with good hearts, regardless of whether we believe in God/A Higher Power or not. And that those who DO believe in God should not be doing the opposite of their beliefs dictate, and then be blaming God for it.

        My point was that the only thing hateful and judgmental Christians accomplish is turning people from God….and if that is the best they can do, they’d be better off saying nothing at all. It makes me soooo angry when someone bashes someone else in the name of God… that is why people call them hypocritical. It IS hypocritical.

        I believe in God, and you do not. We each must coexist here on earth, and the more peaceful and accepting we are of one another, the more peaceful our existence. One does not have to believe in God to wish for peace on earth, or to strive to accomplish it.

        I can’t help but have the hope for you that someday God touches your life….just as I am sure you’re thinking someday I am going to wake up and realize I was wrong about God.

        The point is that each of us wishes only the best for the other based upon where we are at. “Where we are at” is different for each of us, but we are able to respect the others choice.

        This is the lesson we ALL need to learn, accept and adopt.

        • Custador

          “Most “religions” are not about God, they are about money and power.”

          You will find no argument whatsoever from me on that point!

          “My point was aimed at those who SAY they are Christians, and then DO the exact opposite of what a true Christian would do.”

          It gets a little sticky there; who defines what a “true” Christian is? Does anybody really know “what would Jesus do?” in a given scenario? Personally I don’t think there’s enough information about him to do better than make an educated guess.

          “I believe in God, and you do not. We each must coexist here on earth, and the more peaceful and accepting we are of one another, the more peaceful our existence. One does not have to believe in God to wish for peace on earth, or to strive to accomplish it.”

          I deeply and sincerely wish more Christians (and theists in general) shared your mindset. I’d have no problem whatsoever with religion if they all did!

          By the way, your apology was unnecessary; you didn’t come across as proselytizing at all. If anything, you seem as pissed at the fundies as the rest of us :-)

    • Francesc

      Hello Jillian.
      I’m going to answer you because I don’t agree in some aspects of your comment, but I can agree with you in the principal conclusion:
      “And that until (and if) that happens, we all treat one another with dignity, love and respect. Hatred is destroying our world…why can’t people see that? ”

      Let’s see… your first paragraph is an example of the “no true scotchman” fallacy. You can define “true christians” as only those wich agree with you, or those who are nice people. Then pedophile priests, fundamentalists, tax evaders and killers wouldn’t be “true christians”. I’m sorry, but the definition of christians also includes them.

      Your second paragraph is about free will. First, I don’t use free will to not believe in god, I use free will on a daily basis to choose between different little things, and specially when I decide to behave against my own morals. I use reason and critical thinking to not believe in god. Not exactly the same. Secondly, your comment gives me an impression as if the decision would be to believe or to not believe in god. That’s not a decision for me. I should choose first to believe in a non-naturalistic world, then in an all-powerful being, a humanoid being and then in the Abrahamic god. And finally I should choose a particular vision of that Abrahamic god -i. e: mormonism. I mean, it’s not a 50%-50% choose in anyway, I have plenty of different gods to pick one.

      Your third paragraph is about the problem of evil. there is evil in this world. God is allegedly all-powerfull. How is god not responsible from the evil of this world? If I could help someone but I wouldn’t do it, I would be -at least partially- responsible of his disgrace. Moreover if I caused this problem to happen.

      “Hateful words and actions are never in the true spirit of God. Never”
      “First of all if you believe in God, then you know d*mn well that God commands ALL of us to not kill”
      You know, when you read the bible is pretty difficult to see a moral command unambiguously. How is it that drowning a planet is not “hateful”? Commanding to kill everybody of a tribe, including childs, is not hateful? Is it not killing?

      “The best way to promote our faith is remain true to it, and act in the manner the Bible tells us to act” Yeah, I was going to stone my neighbour yesterday because he was working. Instead of that, I tried to buy his daughter, but he doesn’t know the bible and thought that was morally blameworthy. I assume you mean the Gospells, so why did you say the bible?

      “Just because this man says he is serving God does not make this the reality. If he were serving God, three things would have happened very differently”
      I don’t remember the quote, but if that man would have speak falsely in the name of god, god would have killed him. So… either god doesn’t exists or he wasn’t lying…

      Best wishes!

      • Jillian

        With all due respect…and I do have plenty of respect for both you and your opinions, I assure you…

        This comment you posted “You can define “true christians” as only those wich agree with you, or those who are nice people. Then pedophile priests, fundamentalists, tax evaders and killers wouldn’t be “true christians”. I’m sorry, but the definition of christians also includes them”.

        I did not define, nor do I define “true Christians” as only those who agree with ME. Actually, my estimation of a “true Christian” can not be measured against or by me. Because I believe the Bible to be the “measuring stick” of a true Christian, I measure what I do, as well as what other “Christians” do by the Bible.

        So, the pedophiles in the Catholic church…or the Catholic church itself for that matter? The Catholic church spends most of its’ time and energy in defiance of the Bible…using this as a “measuring stick”, I believe it is the Catholic cult, not church.

        I’m not going to argue the God or no God thing. I believe there is, you believe there isn’t.

        I respect your opinion and your right to have it. All I ask from you or anyone else is the same courtesy and kindness as I extend. I am not calling you names, or arguing with you about what makes me right, or what makes you wrong.

        I recognize what I believe is right for me, and what you believe is right for you. And I totally extend to you the greatest respect and kindness. This is what my issue is all about…we should all have nothing but kindness and respect for each other, period.

      • Sunny Day

        Then god had sex and had a kid and that mellowed him out.

        • Jillian

          The underlying cynicism did not get by me….but….

          Take God out of the picture, and re-examine your own comment. Hopefully, you DO have your own children, or you couldn’t understand this.

          Did having a child change you? It sure does drastically change most of us.

          The moment they are born, and we first hold them and look at them, we experience things we’ve never known before.Love we have never imagined ourselves capable of. Even if you don’t attribute the miracle of a baby to God….we still recognize the miracle of it, this little human being is a part of us.

          We are totally and completely responsible for them from this day forward until they are able to think and care for themselves. All the things which used to seem so important to us are now petty compared to this child we hold in our arms for the first time.

          For most people, the birth of a child opens an entirely new future. They go from selfish to selfless where their child is concerned.

          The Pampers commercial says it all….Babies change everything.

          So, would I deny what you are saying, that when God had a child it changed Him?

          Nope, I tend to agree wholeheartedly. The “had sex” thing….well, we likely won’t be agreeing on that, but I’m not going to argue it either.

          May your week be awesome in every way possible!

          • Sunny Day

            So what you are saying is God isn’t perfect?

            Thanks for clearing that up.

            What other problems does god have?

            • Jabster

              Look Sunny D if you going to make an argument at least put the odd word in CAPITALS …

            • Sunny Day

              My BAD!

              so sorry WON’T happen again.

        • Custador

          Well, getting laid always chills me out. But seriously, God? Original absentee father! What a tool! Not only does he boff a 13 year old girl, he does it without a rubber and (more importantly) without even asking her permission – and then cuts and runs and leaves her with a sprog! What a bastard.

          • Sunny Day

            I know, its like he thinks he won’t be accountable for his actions.

            • Custador

              I hope they catch that paedophile rapist and sieze his assets to sell for child support when they jail him, I really do.

            • http://www.dctouristsandlocals.wordpress.com DCtouristsANDlocals

              Wouldn’t it be funny if someone actually claimed this today – tells their husband that they are pregnant by god (not the mailman!) I wonder how that would go over. Someone should do it just to make the news and let everyone see how utterly ridiculous a claim it is.

          • Jillian

            Custador,

            I didn’t expect that harsh of a reply from you, but it is what it is, and it is your opinion and I respect it for that reason. I will not argue, or tell you why I think you are wrong, or why I think I am right. I will not judge it. I will not criticize it.

            The words were angry, and obviously put out there to elicit a reaction, or argument.

            I won’t post any more replies for that very reason. I leave you with a most sincere wish for all the best of everything in your life. I hope others have the same respect for you as well, regardless of their faith…or total lack of it.

            I do think that somehow, your life will be touched, if not changed ~ very soon. May it be in the best possible way! And I don’t mean the way I would define “the best possible way”, I mean the way YOU would define “the best possible way”, honestly.

            • Custador

              Jillian, please don’t take this the wrong way, but I think your sarcasm filter is set too low :-) I was poking fun at the story of Joseph and Mary as I see it, I wasn’t trying to be all “RAAAAH!” or anything. When I do that… Well, it tends to be obvious ;-)

            • http://in-His-own-image.com archaeopteryx

              Jabster:

              I am most assuredly an atheist, and in fact, maintain my own atheist blogsite, but frankly, I find your comments to be little more than petty bickering. There are a plethora of reasons to disbelieve the Judeo/Christian Bible, but if someone chooses to ignore them, will hounding them change their minds?

              pax vobiscum,
              archaeopteryx
              in-His-own-image

            • Sunny Day

              Ridiculous beliefs are deserving of ridicule.

              “but if someone chooses to ignore them, will hounding them change their minds?”

              As its been answered here before, Yes.

            • Jabster

              @Sunny Day

              I’m not sure WTF he’s on about … he replies to Jillian but uses my name and just how many months was the last post on this thread made?

            • http://in-His-own-image.com archaeopteryx

              Sunny Day – RE:As its been answered here before, Yes.

              Much like Little George W’s Weapons of Mass Destruction, the veracity of erroneous statements don’t increase with repetition.

              People are deeply intertwined with their belief systems, whatever they may be, and attacking their belief systems is tantamount to attacking them, which of course, throws them into a defense mode. One can refute a belief with facts, logically presented, and that in turn, may cause a “believer” to question his/her own beliefs, but “hounding” will never change an entrenched belief system. In fact, the believer, feeling threatened, will likely cling to it even more tightly.

              pax vobiscum,
              archaeopteryz
              in-His-own-image.com

            • http://in-His-own-image.com archaeopteryx

              Jabster – RE:I’m not sure WTF he’s on about

              The “reply” to Jillian was a mistake – my comment was intended for you. I had hoped to find meaningful dialogue here, but many of the posts I’ve read make me feel that I’ve accidentally wandered into a Kindergarten classroom. I agree with what you’re saying, it’s your delivery system that could use some refining – your use of “WTF” is a prime example. It’s impossible to simultaneously convince and antagonize.

              pax vobiscum,
              archaeopteryx
              in-His-own-image.com

            • Sunny Day

              At first I didn’t understand what you were trying to say when you brought up WMD, I was confused as to what that had to do with what you were saying. Then it finally dawned on me, You’re just Stupid.

              You could have just saved yourself some time and words and communicated more clearly by just saying, “I’m right and you’re wrong so stfu.”

              You see, people on this site have already shared stories about their deconversion process and some of them involved being insulted and ridiculed to the point where they began to educate themselves on a topic so they may refute what was being said and defend their faith. It didn’t work out the way they initially intended. As they learned more and more it lead them away from the faith they held for most of their lives.

              Hopefully this same ridicule will drive you to being less of a concern troll and stop making an ass of yourself.

              victis honor
              sunny dies
              pharyngula

            • http://in-His-own-image.com archaeopteryx

              Sunny – RE: “You could have just saved yourself some time and words and communicated more clearly by just saying, ‘I’m right and you’re wrong so stfu.’”

              No, I couldn’t have, not without sinking to your level, and I would prefer not to do that.

              pax vobiscum,
              archaeopteryx
              in-His-own-image.com

            • Jabster

              @archaeopteryx

              See this is your problem you seem to think that saying the same thing in a nicer way is somehow better, well it’s not unless you assume that the person you’re directing it at won’t pick up on what was really said. There’s no difference between telling some to STFU and dressing it up with “nice” words … it still means the same thing!

              “I had hoped to find meaningful dialogue here, but many of the posts I’ve read make me feel that I’ve accidentally wandered into a Kindergarten classroom. I agree with what you’re saying, it’s your delivery system that could use some refining …”

              Well firstly don’t let me stop you leaving (in fact I’ve started a whip round to get you a leaving present) and secondly, do you honestly think I give a shite what you think? If I wanted lessons on delivery from a bit of a prat who thinks he’s a an intellect, but obviously isn’t, on the Internet then there’s thousands to choose from besides you …

              p.s. If you’re wondering why I think you’re a bit of a prat contrast your comments about how to deal with people compared to how you’ve dealt with people in this thread … do you see the difference?

            • http://in-His-own-image.com archaeopteryx

              Actually Jabster, I should probably thank you for proving my point. As for leaving, I’m not.

              pax vobiscum,
              archaeopteryx
              in-His-own-image.com

            • Jabster

              @archaeopteryx

              No it doesn’t prove your point … I would think you’re a bit of prat regardless of the insults that you’ve used. TBH you can take your advice and stick it where the sun doesn’t shine … of course you’ll need to use lots of lube to get it past your head that’s already stuck up there.

              p.s. As for leaving, well the whip round for your leaving present was a bit poor and I was extermely dissapointed to see that someone thought it was funny to chuck in a few French francs as some sort of “joke” … so the question is do you prefer cheese & onion, salt & vingear or prawn cocktail crisps?

            • Francesc

              @Archaeopteryx (aren’t we being a little pressumptuos with the name?)
              “People are deeply intertwined with their belief systems, whatever they may be, and attacking their belief systems is tantamount to attacking them, which of course, throws them into a defense mode”
              I agree.
              “One can refute a belief with facts, logically presented, and that in turn, may cause a “believer” to question his/her own beliefs…”
              But I disagree with that statement. The defense mode works whenever you are attacking their beliefs. While you are trying to use logic some of them are repeating “I can’t hear you” with their hands on their ears. Different people need different ways to reach them, and fortunately different atheists have different ways to deal with it. I love specially FSM’s mirror of religion. Logic and reason can be used with some religious people but usually not in internet. I try not to use expressions like “WTF” but that’s just my style.

              Of course, you have the right way to adress the problem and all the blogosphere is wrong.

              BTW, on pharyngula PZ Meyers has answered your concerns more than once, you may want to check them.

              P.D.: Also, sometimes is simply a matter of fun. Why is it that a lot of religious people don’t have a sense of humour?

            • Jabster

              @Francesc

              It seems to not make a blind bit of difference whether one is “nice” or not if you fundementally disagree so I choose not to bother.

            • http://in-His-own-image.com archaeopteryx

              Jabster July 22, 2010 at 3:34 am

              I’m surprised, Jabster, that your mother lets you stay up that late –

              Francesc RE: (aren’t we being a little pressumptuos with the name?)

              At last, an adult! But to answer your question, I like to think not – one of the Creationists’ most frequently heard arguments is that there are no transitional fossils – I chose archaeopteryx simply because I know of no other fossil that is more blatantly obviously transitional. That, and it beats the “h” out of Zeke

              RE: “While you are trying to use logic some of them are repeating “I can’t hear you” with their hands on their ears.”

              I couldn’t agree more, and these I simply bypass – unlike Christians, I feel no compulsion to convert. If someone wants to intelligently discuss religion with me, I’m always up for that, but when the fingers go in the ears and the “La, la, la, la, la’s” begin, I walk away. But I can’t see how vomiting Jabster and Sunny Day-style invectives at them would suddenly convert them to attentive listeners.

              RE: “I try not to use expressions like “WTF” but that’s just my style.”

              That’s because, unlike some here, you have class and quite likely don’t live in your parents’ basement.

              pax vobiscum,
              archaeopteryx
              in-His-own-image.com

            • Jabster

              “I’m surprised, Jabster, that your mother lets you stay up that late”

              … and

              “That’s because, unlike some here, you have class and quite likely don’t live in your parents’ basement.”

              … or maybe you’re just to stupid to realise that there maybe be more than the timezone that you are in. Hint: Your post is 9:00am … that’s not the time where I live. For someone who likes to portray themselves as a better than average you can’t ‘arf be a thick prat …

            • http://in-His-own-image.com archaeopteryx

              Jabster, don’t you have some body part you could be playing with, instead of inserting yourself into adult conversations and wasting valuable bandwidth?

            • Sunny Day

              “No, I couldn’t have, not without sinking to your level, and I would prefer not to do that.”

              LOL, at least you’re honest about what you were Really trying to say. Douchebag.

              victis honor
              sunny dies
              pharyngula

            • http://in-His-own-image.com archaeopteryx

              And there’s his little playmate –

              pax vobiscum,
              archaeopteryx
              in-His-own-image.com

            • Sunny Day

              “But I can’t see how vomiting Jabster and Sunny Day-style invectives at them would suddenly convert them to attentive listeners.”

              We are to accept your lack of imagination in place of the personal testimony of people who were changed by ridicule and embarrassment?

              You do make your point about some idiots “clinging more tightly” to a failed belief system in the face of reason and logic when attacked, by demonstrating that very same idiocy. Thankfully not all theists are as unreachable as concern trolls prove to be. We don’t care about reaching you, making fun of idiots is always gratifying.

            • Sunny Day

              Whoops I forgot my Vainglorious little sig tag.

              victis honor
              sunny dies
              pharyngula

            • Sunny Day

              Jabby why do Concern Trolls, all the while deploring “Kindergarten Classroom” antics, are the first to give up any pretense of reason and start throwing insults with wild abandon.

            • Jabster

              @archaeopteryx

              “Jabster, don’t you have some body part you could be playing with, instead of inserting yourself into adult conversations and wasting valuable bandwidth?”

              No I’m rather enjoying showing you up for what you are and how you react when people point it out to you – did you even realise that there are different timezones in the world. You really showed me with that put down didn’t you?

            • http://in-His-own-image.com archaeopteryx

              Sunny, you and the Jabbsterwocky seem to be harboring some serious anger issues – are you seeing anyone about that? Possibly meds might help, but frankly, I’m skeptical –

              pax vobiscum,
              archaeopteryx
              in-His-own-image.com

            • Sunny Day

              I wonder if Projection evolved alongside the “First Bird”.

              You mistake entertainment for anger, not surprising, you’ve made a lot of mistakes lately.

              victis honor
              sunny dies
              pharyngula

  • http://funnyatheism.com/pictures/cartoons/prayer Funny Atheism

    Wow – these will keep me going for ages! I had no idea Derren Brown’s blog was considered atheist…

  • Lincoln McCluskey

    I have watched people talk about freedom of religion. Religion seems to be considered anything that has to do with God. Atheist feel they can say whatever they want and whenever they want and religious people shouldn’t complain. I believe Atheism is as much of a religion as Roman Catholic, Protestant, Judaism or Muslim. It is a non-belief in God. I consider this a religion.
    I object to the control of my beliefs that Atheists exert over me and my religion as much as they object to any control my religion has on an Atheist. They can say whate4ver they want and so should the religious. Since I consider Atheism a religion I don’t think crosses should be removed from headstones of dead soldiers in cemetery’s as this would convey the meaning of honoring an Atheist when in reality the person was a Protestant, Jew, Catholic or Muslim. The same reasoning should be applied to the pledge of allegiance to the American Flag.

    • Custador

      Lincoln:

      1) Atheism is not a religion. it is the absence of a religion. Personally, I couldn’t care less what “[you] consider” it to be, that’s the bottom line. Don’t reduce my position of reason to the level of your position of delusion just to make yourself feel better about believing a demonstrable fantasy.

      2) Atheists have little or no power in the United States, so what you object to is a figment of your own imagination. You’re whinging about “threats” to your position which don’t exist.

      3) The pledge of allegiance did not make any reference to God until 1956, when it was added due to McCarthy-ist hysteria about the evils of the atheist USSR. Accordingly, it is you who needs to stfu and stop interfering with it, not us.

  • http://toddnickel.wordpress.com/ Todd

    I like Fetid Fruit, although it can be quite depressing. http://www.fetidfruit.com/ Otherwise, a nice list. Thanks.

  • NeoWolfe

    Well, I’ve served my time on two different atheist websites.

    I was mentally warped as a child of a fundamentalist christian family. Spent my best years swamping out my brain. I dumped the dribble, but I also decided I would never believe anything unsupported by empirical evidence.

    I feel I have been mistreated by atheists because they want me to admit that there was no designer of the universe, but I will not, because there is no proof. I try to explain that religion and design have absolutely nothing to do with each other, one is an obvious fraud, the other is a theoretical frontier. And I have seen gurus of these sites misquote bible scriptures out of context, and twist history to spin a point, and that enrages me. Freethinkers deal in facts!!!!

    I am looking for a home to trade ideas and viewpoints with real freethinkers. With 30 sites to choose from, I could get lucky. Wish me luck.

    NeoWolfe

  • Ethan Pozismer

    Because they’re all waiting for this site: How To Talk To God

  • http://ubcfreethinkers.wordpress.com Amanda

    You’ve missed The Crommunist Manifesto!

  • http://atheistevolution.blogspot.com/ Carla Burgoyne

    Great blog sites shared on here! Thank you! Here’s one of MY favourites

  • http://mainereason.blogspot.com Karlton G. Kemerait

    I’ll add my own blog. Possibly some of you may find it useful.

    http://mainereason.blogspot.com

    Enjoy and leave a comment!

  • http://www.uhrenreplica.com/replica-uhren-jaeger-lecoultre.html Jaeger LeCoultre

    I think it already was discussed.

  • http://www.utube.skepticalinquier.com Doctor Jay

    Hello fellow rationalists. It is increasingly clear, in a world or decreasing awareness, incresed hatred and nationalism, atheists become scpegoats.
    Religion has done more evil and spread more lies than any despotic Republic could ever do.

  • Rather-not, Thanks

    It’s sad to see people hang the existence of God upon a single church or a particular religion.

    The wrongs of one church or one religion do not reflect an absence of God, in the same way that the wrongs of one student in school does not reflect the absence of a teacher. All people make their own choices.

    To “throw the baby out with the bath water” is tragic. It is important to remember that God is not bound or defined by any one religion. Religion is only there to help understand the nature of God.

    Consider the 7 Blind Mice, all feeling around an elephant seeking to gain understanding. No 2 mice feel the same thing. All 7 mice describe a different life form, and yet the form remains an elephant. Such is the way of God. All men seek God, but no one man can define him/her.

  • David Stanley

    For many years I was a practicing Roman Catholic. So much so that I was studying to take Holy Orders. During these studies, and many years prior I must add, I learned the history of the church and, for that matter, religion. “Religion” I finally surmised, was invented to :”fill the gaps” of the known and the unknown, to answer those impossible to answer questions, to provide the “common man” for someone or something to pin the blame on or to thank for daily events. But, more important that all this was the universal truth that those heading the “religion” or ministering same were those literally in control of all aspects of life from cradle to grave and even beyound. I became ever more disenchanted and began to look through a realist’s eyes at religion, particularly Catholicism. “The Church” took a simple and comfortable, “do unto others …” concept and constantly revised same to invent universe of rules, regulations, etc to provide unimpeachable control to its leaders whilst ensuring constant flow of income and treasures to their coffers. This continued from day one to the present, rules being rewritten to prove a divine right to rule over billions of people whilst taking their money less they face “eternal damnation”. The Church invented “Hell” and “Satan” as backup less doubters or scoffers stand up to Church dictates and demands. No, I learned far too much in my studies and, as result, find myself where I am today. I referred to myself as, “Agnostic”, “Skeptic”, “Educated”, but never as an “ATHEIST”. That word, that title I found distasteful mostly because of what so many Atheists in this country do to make total asses and fools of themselves. So, where and what am I truly? I know about the terror and horror and mass murder done by The Church, the Inquisition, the centuries of stupidity by both clergy and lay and willingness to die horribly for their belief. Where and what am I? I reject all these moronic and childish attitudes, platitudes and beliefs because of my knowledge. Further, i understand “Science” constantly debunks most or all of The Church’s dogma and demands. This is not done to mock or better, merely to prove, to answer questions, to explore, to seek out. And The Church, in it condescending manner, ignores scientific information stating the their God did it! Am I better for it? Am I poorer for it? As you can see, I now know the truth but a question mark remains above my head. David Stanley

  • http://TheAbsenceofGod Julian Bandel

    http://jesusmustbestopped.blogspot.com/ is definitely the best blog I know… it covers everythang

  • Pingback: slacktivist » Certainty, risk & commitment

  • david

    I believe all religion should be banned in constitutions around the world, to finally put an end to ignorance, religious madness, religious brainwashing of children and adults, religious manipulation of laws, religious manipulation of society, and the spread of religious hypocrisy through the use of missionaries, disciples, and clerics, into every corner of the world. Why can’t human beings live a nature life like they did seven thousand years ago before religious believes were conceived by shamans and witch doctors. Seven thousand years ago there were was no such thing as governments, lawyers, law books, sex offenders, and feminist. People traveled in small social groups that were hunters and gathers and there was unlimited sex without any inhibitions or legal prosecutions. A man could have one wife, two wives or even three wives without any Christian saying he was committing a sin or a feminist saying he was abusing women. Life was simple then and life was healthier for the human minds of both men and women because homosexuality didn’t exist.

    For those people that think Islam is a violent religion they forgot about Christian Catholicism which was well known for murderous crusades, inquisitions which included torture to attain confessions, burning of heretics, burning of witches and warlocks, and the practice of indulgence which forgave sins in exchange for money, goods, and land property.

    • Custador

      Not sure if pretending to be atheis or is batshit insane…

      • http://www.salt-romblonwriter.blogspot.com Casiano Mayor

        You’re presuming that all atheists are intelligent. That’s a big baloney.

        • UrsaMinor

          True. There’s no minimum IQ requirement on the job application.

          • http://www.salt-romblonwriter.blogspot.com Casiano Mayor

            Have you ever thought that this world is not ruled by reason, that reason is just a justification of what you believe in or what you believe in?

  • http://www.salt-romblonwriter.blogspot.com Casiano Mayor

    You do not debate life, you live it. You do not debate religion or non-religion, you life it. Atheism will not solve the problems of the world because this world has never been run by reason. The problem is how to tame negative or dangerous emotions. Assuming that atheists can abolish religion, which is not likely if by religion we mean a personal relationship between God and man, atheists will be fighting against atheists. I hope that will serve as a good food for thought.

    • Darwin

      When did we say we wanted to abolish religion? Like Ursa, Nox, Ty and a few other people said on another topic, what we want is people to stop dragging religion into politics and trying to force people to follow the laws of their religion even if they don’t follow that religion.

      • http://www.salt-romblonwriter.blogspot.com Casiano Mayor

        Religion has its own downside, and so has science. Industrialization and global warming, which are byproducts of science are among them.
        The problem of this world is not religion, it’s people’s pride, foremost.

        • trj

          More like greed and ignorance, is my best bet. That you see pride as the biggest problem is a dead giveaway that you’re a Christian.

          • http://SaltofLife Casiano Mayor

            Yes, I am a Christian, but not the tradition kind that might be in your mind.
            Greed most likely stems from pride. Pride makes you want to be ahead of others.
            Ignorance is too relative. Not all who embrace Faith is ignorant, if ignorance you mean we don’t understand philosophy and why we embrace faith.
            I want to know why you want religion, or to be precise, faith abolished.

            • UrsaMinor

              I want to know what is wrong with your reading comprehension. You are attributing an agenda to us that we have already explicitly told you that we do not have.

              You are welcome to your faith. Just keep it off my lawn.

    • Sunny Day

      Atheism will not solve the problems of the world because this world has never been run by reason.

      Thankyou for admitting your religion isn’t reasonable.

      • http://SaltofLife Casiano Mayor

        i thought you are using reason, but that begging the question. I hope you won’t that i am debating with you, i am just trying to clarify things.
        Why do you want religion abolished. Do you think that if you succeed in abolishing religion, people in this planet will become all rational?
        Do you think the problems of this world will be solved?

        • Jabster

          “Why do you want religion abolished”

          … and who said it should be abolished. I can find two comments in this thread that don’t say that, so why do you keep posing the question?

        • Custador

          You do rather assume that “reason” = “agrees with Casiano Mayor”, depsite evidence to the contrary, don’t you?

        • Sunny Day

          i thought you are using reason

          I am. You don’t seem to be.

          Why do you want religion abolished.

          Why do you want me to answer for something I’ve never said?

          Do you think the problems of this world will be solved?

          No but if religiousidiots like you would stop pestering people with the supposed commandments of your supernatural boogey men, we would see a sharp drop off of the continual generation of new problems.

  • Bill Haines

    Been awhile, but this URL comes up tops in Google search for popular atheist blogs, so I’ll add:
    http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag

  • Living in the Balance

    [Spam deleted - We're not here to buff your SEO]

    • Yoav

      If it make you all warm and fuzzy to feel superior because you’re a sophisticated agnostic and not one of us simpleton atheists, good for you, however very few atheist fall into the box you want to put us in.

      who are we to deny with certainty all supernatural entities because we haven’t experienced them? It is one thing to say that it is probable, even practical to believe that there are no supernatural beings or forces, but to say that it is certainly true is a mistake.

      That’s exactly the position taken by any atheist I’m familiar with, some sort of god may exist but there is no reason to believe in any until some evidence for it’s existence will be available.

      Now here is why I am not an atheist either. Atheists have failed to give a good explanation of why life exists. How is it that from an inorganic universe, a group of molecules started reproducing and trying to survive? Even though atheist biologists will deny it, there is a zero probability that something inert became alive because it interacted with other inert forces and substances, no matter how much time and randomness you factor into the equation. It is silly to theorize that life just randomly appeared out of a bunch of molecules.

      Can you provide any evidence for your claim the probability of life emerging by natural processes is zero? While we don’t currently have a good theory for abiogenesys there are several possible models out there, all of them rely only on natural processes, moreover if you really think the possibility of life being a natural phenomena is absolute zero then you’re no longer the superior agnostic you claim to be but a believer in a supernatural creator, because according to you that’s the only way life could exist.

  • http://TheScienceofHumor Brian Ethos

    Humorous article I read about a Christmas Eve Mass in Las Vegas
    http://www.thefatbirds.com/graham-stephen/tell-the-muslims-merry-christmas.html

  • Ron Cram

    I am Christian but get involved in discussions at http://www.provingthenegative.com/

    While it is theoretically possible to prove God does not exist, the history of philosophy has clearly shown this has never happened. Professor Matt McCormick continues to try.

  • yvrobinson20

    My favorites are Debunking Christianity and Faith is Fraud.

    http://www.faithisfraud.com

    http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/

  • http://twitter.com/MuricanAtheist ‘Murican Atheist

    I just started a blog where I will be posting a variety of content related to atheism; I’m looking to gain an active community of atheist commenters, feel free to check it out: http://muricanatheist.blogspot.com/

  • Meg Wilbur

    You should check out: http://apolitebribe.com! Director Robert Orlando’s latest project:

    Thirty years after the death of Christ,

    the future of the Christian church teetered on faulty ground. Two
    factions, the Apostle Paul’s Gentile Churches and the Judean Church lead
    by Jesus’ own brother James… Both groups had clearly emerged with very
    different visions for the mission, and were headed toward a final
    showdown — A mutually destructive fracture that would have ended the
    Church in its infancy, if not for one man.

    Now for the first time, learn how one man’s vision kept the early
    Christian movement together. How one man, defied the very followers of
    Jesus himself… and in the end left his homeland to conquer an Empire.
    Learn the story the church would never tell.

    A Polite Bribe.

  • http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/ Ed Ward, MD

    Holy Horus: The Jesus Origin Exposed; The Real Truth About Religion and Its Origins, and Annuit Coeptis Novus Ordo Seclorum

    On a separate note, for Stephen Hawking’s ‘conventional afterlife is a fairy tale’ followers, I remind them of the First Law of Thermodynamics – Energy Can Not Be Created Nor Destroyed, Merely Transformed. And submit that life or a ’soul’ is essentially energy and must conform to the Laws of Energy, at least on a scientific basis. Circumstantial and coincidental evidence of energy ‘surviving’, transferring, making itself known to some, seems to support the scientific evidence. http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2013/09/18/the-real-truth-about-religion-and-its-origins/

  • http://www.nullifidian.net/ nullifidian

    Cheers for the rec, Stephen. :-)

  • http://www.holyblasphemy.net Derek Murphy

    Stephen, the humility and humor in this is outstanding. I’ll look at your blog – can you recommend other Christian blogs that are interested in genuine dialog? I’d like to put a list together on my site.

  • http://www.holyblasphemy.net Derek Murphy

    No – I agree with elemenope. What we have is a culture war, which is escalating, between Christians and Atheists. You won’t convince a Christian that their beliefs are wrong by telling them that they are stupid and silly (they don’t think so) or that the Church history is an abomination (everybody makes mistakes.) And – as we all know – convincing a critical majority of Christians to adopt a more inclusive paradigm is fundamental for the betterment of society. What skeptics have on their side (sometimes) is a little bit more understanding and wisdom, which should let them see how important being sympathetic to Christian is for actual dialogue; but what is too often produced is an angry tirade, which makes them (us?) no better than fundamentalists ourselves.

  • http://www.holyblasphemy.net Derek Murphy

    Fantastic… This is a brilliant model for the process of de-conversion.

  • http://www.holyblasphemy.net Derek Murphy

    Oh…… the infamous Lee Strobel. His book made me wretchedly mad. He interviews (only) Christian scholars, and then writes how astounded he is by the amazing evidence. Like page 91 – talking about a statement of Jesus, whether or not it is ‘historical’:

    “That is stunning corroboration for the most important assertion by the most influential individual who has ever lived.” There’s an almost laughable bias here; but it’s not funny because tens of thousands of otherwise intelligent people have been drawn in by this farce.

    On a cosmological level: I have no doubt that you experience God. I happen to believe that the universe responds to our expectations so strongly that we can experience what we believe in (and, it is easy to use that experience as proof…even though, given this theory of the universe, it is not.) Good luck in your quest!

  • http://www.holyblasphemy.net Derek Murphy

    There is nothing unreasonable about the ethics of Jesus. However – the ‘we are born in sin and require the sacrifice of Jesus (by accepting him into our hearts) or else we are going to Hell, is flawed on so many levels its difficult to address. Living in Taiwan, however, and noting how roughly 95% of Taiwanese are not Christian and yet arguably ethically superior to westerners… I have a serious problem with the belief that they are going to Hell – and this is only out of the Graciousness of God – God’s ‘gift’ to humanity.

  • Roger

    “I have a serious problem with the belief that they are going to Hell – and this is only out of the Graciousness of God – God’s ‘gift’ to humanity.”

    Man, can I exchange that ‘gift’ for a PS3?

  • prave

    hey derek
    Jesus’ ethics are very very unreasonable. No person is capable of fulfilling them (Be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect). A command as defined in the OT, when disobeyed, received its due. NT says the wages of sin is death (NOT TORTURE – more at tentmaker dot ORG on first 400 years of Christian church history- Check Universalism – the prevailing doctrine of the early christian Church)
    Jesus paid that price ( you and i would die – NOT GOING TO HELL AND BEING TORTURED BY GOD).
    Jesus the second adam rose from the dead.
    at last at the end of ages God will be all in all : 1 Corinthians 15:34.
    So why this misery of life, with this overall madness of wars and famines and the banality of evil? – ask God- he is the author of all. He has created evil and he has done all (check the lake of fire series at Ray L Smith online)
    does that reduce yours and mine anguish and pain seeing the evil . No.

  • Solomon

    Roger,
    God does not simply throw his creations to hell.He throws them to hell for those who find other God’s they create themselves rather than only him,those who create mischiefs,those who are cruel to others,those who sway others from the true path.In fact he promises good afterlife & Heavens to those who follow his path.He just want some recognition & credit for his graciousness,thats all,but most humans are ungratefull for what God have given them.Don,t make a joke out of him.

  • Solomon

    Roger,
    The only exchange or gift you will get is the burning chain from Hell round your neck!

  • prave

    Solomon
    then you are going to hell too
    for all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God…(romans 3:23).
    BUT that’s NOT the ONLY news…The Good news immediately follows it…and are Justified freely by his grace…(romans 3:24) (Old Lutheran teaching: Objective Universal Justification…but the lutharans Logically would not go further…Universal Salvation is the logical end to universal justification (already happed 2000 years ago at the cross) )
    so you, me and all have been saved so that God will be all in all.
    Romans 3 21-26 : But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

    But this does not help my sincere, intelligent, full of integrity atheistic friends who all have a very valid set of arguments – both sound and valid (Given the set of premises they hold). But as Kurt Godel said in his second incompleteness theorem: For any formal effectively generated theory T including basic arithmetical truths and also certain truths about formal provability, T includes a statement of its own consistency if and only if T is inconsistent.

    So even if my atheistic friends logically would develop a rigorous formal system (with symbols and axioms) they can come up with false statements. (thats how i think…if i am mistaken or someone is a better mathematician please correct me in the implication of Godels second theorem. )

    So we are back to the beginning: either we become epicureans like kirk or stoic like Spock……
    Please pardon my ramblings…But this gives me the greatest Joy: all my atheistic friends on this website will be with me in heaven because of what Christ has done for us.

    1 Corinthians chapter 13: 8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

    So all our limited knowledge and understanding will one day pass away and we all will be one. Till that day occurs let us love one and another and make this world a better place little by little. Let us not fight, but show compassion. Let us not be neither a Christian fundamentalist NOR a atheistic fundamentalist. Both are not nice to be around with.

  • http://in-His-own-image.com archaeopteryx

    Solomon: RE: “He just want some recognition & credit for his graciousness,thats all”

    Let’s assume for the moment that I’m superior to an ant. Would I have any reason to expect an ant to obey me or worship me? I have no such needs.

    If one can safely assume that the god of whom you speak is as superior to me as I to the ant, why would he require my worship or obedience? Is he really that insecure? Is it just possible that he needs us more than we need him?

    pax vobiscum,
    archaeopteryx
    in-His-own-image

  • Solomon

    Dear Prave,
    I will come to you later.Today is weekend at the office and its almost time to go home.I wrote blogs only at office.Hope to reply in 2 days later.

  • Solomon

    Why suddenly everybody is so quiet….


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