Miss California's Anti-Gay-Marriage Comments

Carrie PrejeanYou’ve probably heard about Miss California’s anti-gay-marriage comments:

“I think it’s great that Americans are able to choose one or the other,” Prejean responded. “But in my country, and in my family, I think that I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there, but that’s how I was raised.”

Who cares if she was raised that way? People were raised to hate Blacks and Jews, too. Does that make it right?

But that’s not really what she meant, of course:

“I don’t take back what I said,” she told Lauer, adding that she “had spoken from my heart, from my beliefs and for my God.”

“It’s not about being politically correct,” she said. “For me, it’s about being biblically correct.

How ironic. Here is a woman who struts around a stage with almost no clothes on, yet is concerned about being “biblically correct!”

Perhaps she missed all those Bible passages about being modest?

Well it seems her god wasn’t all that impressed with her self-labeled biblical correctness, as she lost to Miss North Carolina, Kristen Dalton.

  • Custador

    In the immortal words of Bill Hicks: “That’s what fundamentalism breeds – irony”.

    • http://progressatallcost.blogspot.com/ markbey

      I believe it can be called selective morality. Mark

    • Jason

      I don’t judge people. What she said was her honest opinion. I too believe a marriage should be between a man and a woman. That question was a set up to get people up in arms. Politics should have no bearing in a competition. I would rather have someone honestly answer questions than to lie. Everyone knows the most common answer in this competition is ” WORLD PEACE”. Give me a break.

      • http://metroblog.blogspot.com Metro

        I agree that the question should never have been asked. There’s a reason she’s parading about in a bikini and not swotting for her PhD.

  • Sock

    Honestly, I’m not offended by this. We know there are people on both sides of the issue, and she’s just a beauty model, not a politician. I don’t care what she thinks. Maybe her opinion is important to the wanna be beauty models, but that’s about it.

    If I knew her personally, I’d care.

  • http://www.wortvogel.de Torsten

    I don’t understand what the fuss is about – she acknowledges gay marriage (even calls the option “great”), but retains her right to have a different opinion. That’s the definition of tolerance.

    She is entitled to her own opinion, and I don’t think that anything she said can be seen as bigoted or offensive. The right to free speech includes people we don’t agree with.

    She’s stupid, though – it should’ve been obvious that her comments wouldn’t go down well with the jury. But again: maybe she is just honest, and believed that you shouldn’t have to lie to win the contest (“I love puppies, long walks on the beach, and want to work towards world peace!”).

    • Francesc

      I agree with you. I’m going to be tolerant and say that, in my opinion, she’s an idiot and that she has very funny beliefs.

      About being biblically correct, well, it’s my obligation to remember Paul’s letters here:

      1 Timothy 2
      “9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10 but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. 11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet”

      2 Thessalonians 3
      “6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us”

      As Daniel, I don’t think she is dressing discreetly. So any real christian, acording to the bible, should keep away from her. And as she is a christian woman, and always acording to the bible, she is not allowed to teach men. So her opinion doesn’t count

      I really hope that she will grew up and begain to think, not to believe

      • Francesc

        By the way, Sarah Palin can’t be a governor acording to the bible, too

        • http://metroblog.blogspot.com Metro

          Wait–You mean she really was one?

          I mean, I figured the RNC just said “Let’s put some bible-loving, gun-totin’ trollop up there with gran’pa. We’ll say she’s governor of … Oh, I dunno, … Alaska … Yeah, that’s it! Alaska. No-one’ll ever check …”

          • Francesc

            lol

            I though she was, but I don’t have any real evidence. I don’t have any real evidence either that she is a woman

        • http://unreasonablefaith.com Yevgeniy Avramenko

          Paul was talking about the church, women are not to be leaders in the church (did you ever read any of the bible?) Sarah Palin can be a Governor as some women have been leaders in the Biblical.

    • http://exfundamentalist.blogspot.com Lorena

      First, she isn’t very smart. Granted.

      But what made her lose, in my opinion, is that she truly thought she was saying something the jurors would approve of. In fact, the crowd was clapping before she finished. More than stupid, she is naive and ignorant. She was completely unaware that there are lots of people out there who actually support gay marriage.

      • http://iwant2knowyourstory.blogspot.com/ Niva Tuvia

        “She was completely unaware that there are lots of people out there who actually support gay marriage.”

        How is that possible ? She’s Miss Caifornia! o.O

  • Prash

    “/* But in my country */, and in my family, I think that I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman.”

    That’s just what we need, geography-specific morality. Because it is obvious to everyone but heathens that the bible was written specifically for Americans.

    • franz dibbler

      I have actually heard someone say that “English was good enough for Jesus” while ranting about bi-lingual education. As far as the beauty pageant, she has her right to an opinion but the almost palpable hypocrisy of going on about biblical values while standing there like a piece of meat in a bikini is breathtaking.

  • http://presetyourjet.wordpress.com. WendySkeleton

    Why does she attempt to create smoke and mirrors about her beliefs when she says, “No offense…”? Sorry, but you’re a bigot, and it’s as simple as that. Don’t hide the fact that you’re a bigot.

    • Viridid

      It’s pretty much a guarantee when someone starts a sentence with “No offence…” the result is going to be horribly offensive. If you’re going to say something that you feel has to be prefaced with “No offence meant” then you might as well just say it without trying to exonerate yourself. You’re going to cause offence anyway.

      • Custador

        It’s a bit like “I’m not racist, but…”, which is always followed by a racist comment!

  • she-has-courage

    This is a beautiful young woman has the courage to stand up for her convictions. She should be admired that she did not stoop to the standards of the world on this subject.
    Have your same sex unions but don’t call it marriage. I believe the term “MARRIAGE” should apply to the holy institution between a “husband and wife” NOT “husband and husband” OR “wife and wife”.
    I have no problem with giving “benefits” to couples who believe other than I but just use some term other than marriage. Most gay/lesbian people seem to think those who want to preserve traditional marriage are against them. This is not necessarily so. We just don’t want the term to apply to something that God NEVER intended it to apply to.
    God has in NO way EVER sanctioned the idea of the gay/lesbian sex and never will. It is unnatural and wrong. I am tolerant of those who believe otherwise but I believe that God would wants the term “Marriage” preserved for the holy institution HE designed.
    Lets applaud this beautiful young woman for having the COURAGE to stand up for HER beliefs.

    • Reginald Selkirk

      I believe the term “MARRIAGE” should apply to the holy institution between a “husband and wife” NOT “husband and husband” OR “wife and wife”.

      Tell me again why your belief should be privileged above that of others by being enshrined in the law?

      God has in NO way EVER sanctioned the idea of the gay/lesbian sex and never will.

      God has also in NO way EVER sanctioned the elimination of slavery. What’s yoru effing point?

      • she-has-courage

        Dear Reginald
        Enshrine what you want in the law, just don’t call it marriage if its same sex. That’s MY belief. YOU do what ever makes YOU happy. I don’t expect you to agree with me and I likely will not agree with you. That’s the beauty of this country.

        Not sure where you are coming from on the slavery topic. I do not believe God condones slavery. Just stating MY beliefs.

        Sad little Mr Perez Hilton did not impress me by calling Miss Prejean a b…h and said he wished he had called her a c… Wow what a class act.

        • http://doubtingeventhomas.blogspot.com/ Doubting Foo

          she-has-courage, I suggest you read your bible. God most definitely condones slavery, heck, its in the 10 commandments.
          http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/slavery.html

          So, could she say she’s OK with slavery because the bible says its ok?

        • Roger

          Oh, and your God totally condones slavery. Again, his mouthpieces never contradicted the practice, and, in a couple of cases, encourage benevolent treatment of slaves by masters and obedience to masters by slaves. Your beliefs do not appear to line up with the text, dear.

        • Custador

          YOU have YOUR deffinition of marriage – but it is not the ONLY deffinition of marriage and YOU DO NOT HAVE EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO USE THE WORD.

          Get over it.

          • she-has-courage

            Anyway you try to spin it Male/Male, Female/Female, may have genuine love involved but in my silly little book it is NOT marriage.

            You may have invented something new, invent a new name for it. The following may both involve something you put between your legs but we don’t call a motorcycle a horse. We don’t call an apple an orange.

            You figure out what to call it. You create something new and unique YOU give it a new and unique name. The ball is in your court on that one. I know there is enough creativity in that community to figure out what to call “IT”.

            My best wishes truly are with you. You want to believe I am against you but I am NOT. I think you just need some encouragement as you venture into new territory.

            • Elemenope

              What’s the name of your silly little book? It isn’t the Bible, of this I am sure, since the Bible does not proffer such a definition. Do they sell your little book in stores?

            • Joe B

              Why should your book decide what the state allows people to do and call their relationships? Chruch and State are separate. The only proposal I’ve seen that’s made an ounce of sense was totally removing marriage from the government and laws. Make a civil union with all the rights of marriage the only thing the government hands out, making “Marriage” strictly a religious rite.

              But even that is just a whole lot of unnecessary silliness over the use of a fucking word.

            • Custador

              I’m sorry, but you think that lifelong partnerships between two men is a new phenomenon?! What planet do you live on?!

            • Francesc

              I know you don’t want an answer, so you are going to have it anyway -from my point of view, of course I may not be the best to answer that.
              On one hand, it is about acceptance and normality. Gay community had to struggle from some generations against isolation and lack of acceptance from their relatives and neighbours. Now the society should be ready to accept that two males or two females may be in love as an heterosexual couple can be, and they have the right to do it publicly.
              On another hand, duh, it is also about money and civil rights. Married couple have obvious economical benefits. For the second reason there is no need to call it marriage, a civil union with full rights should be enough. But for the first it is indeed necessary.

            • Roger

              You’re right about one thing: your little book is, indeed, silly.

            • Red Dave

              Why are you so filled with anger and seemingly hatred? Is that the holy spirit?

            • James G

              “Go have sex with a freaking wall and call it a marriage”.

              That’s known as Glory Holing and the problem is that it’s technically classed as Polygamy.

          • professoryackle

            http://www.metalhorse.com/

            Actually, I’ve heard a motorcycle referred to as a metal horse on several occasions, usually poetically.

            And didn’t Shakespeare say, “That which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet.”

            You can call gay marriage an aardvark, or indeed, as you probably do, an abomination, but it’s still a marriage and it’s here to stay.

        • Darby


          Enshrine what you want in the law, just don’t call it marriage if its same sex. That’s MY belief. YOU do what ever makes YOU happy. I don’t expect you to agree with me and I likely will not agree with you. That’s the beauty of this country.

          No, the ignorance of people these days is just incredible.

          The beauty of this country is that no matter what your opinion of what people you don’t even freaking know want to do, provided it doesn’t hurt other people, that the government is expressly forbidden from doing anything about it.

          That’s what our constitution is for, to protect the minority from the ignorant hatred of the majority.

          You have a religious belief that something is wrong. Since you are entirely unable to come up with any sane justification for your bizarre belief that you should be able to dictate to others how they must live their lives, then it is automatically forbidden. Think about it, the first amendment was put in the constitution for the specific purpose of preventing *you* and people like you, from pushing the agendas that you are.

          The hilarious part is that you’re trying to claim religious ownership of an institution that predates the invention of your religion. Truly, rabid Christians are some of the scariest, most deluded people around.

    • Audrey

      I’m sorry she-has-courage, but your comment seems to be even more dimwitted than Ms. CA’s. I understand your opinion that your religion has a specific view of what constitutes marriage, but most queer people don’t care about religious marriage. They want the civil rights associated with civil marriage. Unfortunately, it always seems that fundies are okay with civil unions right up to the time where a state wants to provide same sex couples those rights.

      I respect your right to have your opinion, but can’t you just STFU and stop trying to inflict your bizarre dogma on those of us who have different beliefs?

      • yougottabkiddinme

        While the apparent conflict of opinion is being argued, the TRUTH is still the TRUTH. It is not a RELIGIOUS belief, but is a FACT. Just because YOU refuse to acknowledge it does not change it. Sure there has been queers before now, however, that does not mean this perversion is to be accepted as normal human behavior. By the way, there is nothing civil about it. It is a VILE and DEPRAVED lifestyle that has no MORALITY or VALIDITY. But that does not mean it does not exist; only that in every society there are THOSE sick and perverted beings, who BELIEVE they were born that way, and that the REST of us should ACCEPT them. Personally, I pray that every butt-humping fag and every box-munching butch, as well as every other confused soul comes face-to-face with ALMIGHTY GOD, whether in judgment or Jesus. Love the Poor Confused Faggot, but never Accept their Sin.

        • LRA

          You. Are. Offensive. I. Hate. You.

          • LRA

            *seriously disgusted and angry*

        • Cucumber

          ( a year late, lol) (busy procrastinating.)

          NO.
          Homosexuality fits into biology. There are hundreds of studies on how it balances male sexual aggression, the mating season and how some animal species form homosexual relationships during the off-seasons… it goes on and on.

          Oh, I see. So when its a man and a woman, its ‘love’ but for two men or two women its sex. Your lack of education is mind-boggling.

          *trying. to. breathe.*

    • Roger

      According to your sacred text, your God didn’t intend for divorce for anything other than a Christian separating him/herself from the non-Christian. Allegedly, this same deity (through whatever spokesperson claimed him in the NT) didn’t intend for women to say much of anything–especially if it “usurped authority over a man.” Would you then be in favor of returning the concept of marriage as well as its attendant gender relations to its first century trappings?

    • Bissrok

      As Daniel said, I don’t see the “courage” in her thinking we should deny a group of people their rights.

      If she said it was fine that black people were free in America but, in her country and in her family, she liked to keep them as slaves, you wouldn’t be praising her courage.

      Taking away freedoms from people because they don’t follow the Christian doctrine is about as far from a noble cause as you can get.

      • she-has-courage

        I fail to see who is trying to DENY the rights of anyone. Have what ever reasonable rights you want just DO NOT misuse the term MARRIAGE. Marriage = Man + Woman.

        Man + Man = (insert some creative new word)

        Woman + Woman = (insert a fresh new word)

        I am happy for what ever makes you happy and does not harm society just do not misuse the term “marriage”.

        Enjoy

        • Cleric of Vaxtraorxk

          Well MY god, Vaxtraorxk the Nameless, who just so happens to be the one true god, supports same-sex marriage. Therefore I’m not misusing the term “marriage”, I’m just using the definition of marriage as defined by MY god.

          Vaxtraorxk = True God = Relevant definition of marriage
          Yahweh, Elohim, Jehova, = Not God = Irrelevant definition of marriage.

          Enjoy.

          • she-has-courage

            I appreciate your take on it. Just convince “the powers that be” and I might go along with it.

            Why are so many offended because a lot of us wish to defend “traditional marriage”?
            Quit calling people you disagree with “haters and bigots”. I am a lover of everything that is good.
            It is my opinion that those who want their unions sanctioned should just think up a term that represents “whatever it is that you might do or be” but one that does not pervert the term “marriage”.

            Think about it!

            • Joe B

              I appreciate your take on it. Just convince “the powers that be” and I might go along with it.

              Why are so many offended because a lot of us wish to defend “traditional marriage”?
              Quit calling people you disagree with “haters and bigots”. I am a lover of everything that is good.
              It is my opinion that those who want their unions sanctioned should just think up a term that represents “whatever it is that you might do or be” but one that does not *pervert* the term “marriage”.

              And you were doing so well…

            • Roger

              Well, she-has, explain just how gay marriage threatens “traditional marriage.” And if anybody needs to “think about it,” I daresay it’s you, m’dear.

            • http://blog.dc-agape.com dc-agape

              she-has-courage,
              You might want to verify “traditional marrage” in the Biblical Sense. The OT allowed cousin marriage, polygamy, and slave wives. the NT did not allow divorce for any reason except apostasy. Using the term “tradition marriage” is extremely misleading, because there is no traditional marriage. Until the 19th century marriage was a business contract and the woman had no rights. Love was not involved, do you want to go back to any one of those “traditional marriages”?

          • claidheamh mor

            “traditional marriage”

            *snort*

            Polygyny is traditional in some cultures. Polyandry is less common, I think, but wherever it was practiced it was traditional. In cultures I read about in an introductory anthropology course, one had the man having a wife, and the wife having a second “wife” – more of a helpmeet for her. Another had parents promising an unborn child as a wife, if the child will be female. So those females are married at birth. Another at least gave the woman power of veto over her husband having other wives, etc. (Too many years ago to remember the details I learned well at the time.) Group marriage is another one I learned about in this introductory course, which is clearly more than you ever even thought about studying.

            Traditionnnnnnn!

            You’re dragging god – the god of YOUR particular mythology, of course – into civil definitions of marriage that you consider so sacred and traditional.

            You’re grossly ignorant, she-lacks-brains.

        • MahouSniper

          What you’re saying is you don’t like the word itself being used for gay couples. In other words, you’re completely full of shit.

          Shakespeare said “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.” The argument that you don’t want to legalize same-sex marriage because it would defile the word is just a politically correct way to impose your bigotry on other people.

          If you’re worried about the word “marriage,” fuck you, write your own dictionary.

        • Elemenope

          Have what ever reasonable rights you want just DO NOT misuse the term MARRIAGE. Marriage = Man + Woman.

          Says who? Certainly not the God of the Bible. No such definition exists in the text. And, oddly enough, there is little problem calling Solomon’s several wives in the text wives. So, marriage can be Man + Woman + Woman + Woman + Woman + Woman…?

        • rodneyAnonymous

          I fail to see who is trying to DENY the rights of anyone. Have what ever reasonable rights you want just DO NOT misuse the term MARRIAGE.

          No. Some states use “civil unions”, but civil unions don’t get the same rights as marriages. Having different words is just another way to discrimintate; it’s not just that the words are different, it’s a semantic foundation for syntactic discrimination.

          Your church would not be required to perform marriages that it doesn’t approve of for any reason. You must separate “religious rites” from “civil rights”. We are talking only about the legal definition and benefits of marriage. It is unfair to say “these two adults can benefit from this state institution, but those two cannot”.

          • rodneyAnonymous

            I am married. I was married in a courthouse. My wife and I don’t believe in marriage. I don’t wear a ring because it symbolizes the aspect of marriage that I don’t believe in. If there were not many legal benefits to being married, we wouldn’t be. But there are, and I’ll play that game. If I were gay, I’d be out of luck.

            • http://iwant2knowyourstory.blogspot.com/ Niva Tuvia

              “My wife and I don’t believe in marriage. I don’t wear a ring because it symbolizes the aspect of marriage that I don’t believe in.”

              Can I ask why you don’t believe in marriage and what a ring symbolizes to you? I just find it interesting.

            • rodneyAnonymous

              A complete answer would take a lot of space, but basically, the vow/contract aspect, which I feel cheapens commitment. If we’re together, it should be because we want to be together, right now and yesterday and tomorrow, not because we said we would stay together forever at some point in the past. If we’re together, that is much more important than the fact that we’re married, and if we split up, that is much more important than the fact that we’d get a divorce.

              I realize married couples can dislike each other for an extended period of time yet later reconcile and continue their happy marriage. I am not saying people should split up the moment they don’t get along, but I think the decision to stick it out should be based on reason and not a specious promise.

              People promise to stay together forever, but no one can really make that promise. It’s dishonest. Especially in light of the fact that half of marriages end in divorce.

              I don’t believe that marriage has any “special” power to keep people together. Many people do believe that, and in that case it may well have special power for them; but it doesn’t for me if I don’t believe in it, and I can’t decide to believe in it if I don’t.

              Moving in together was a gigantic step. Getting married was not a step at all.

              My opinion is probably significantly affected by having been married before (church wedding and everything).

            • http://iwant2knowyourstory.blogspot.com/ Niva Tuvia

              Makes sense. I can see where you’re coming from on that. The reason I didn’t get it before is because I wouldn’t marry someone unless I was 100% positively in love for life; willing to make the commitment to stay with that person for the rest of my life because I want to through thick and thin. I guess I’ve just never seen marriage as a “contract of bondage”. Because it shouldn’t be. Just a bigger step of commitment. Plus the legal benifits you advocate so much. Lol.

            • rodneyAnonymous

              I wouldn’t marry someone unless I was 100% positively in love for life; willing to make the commitment to stay with that person for the rest of my life

              Yeah, I mean, no one can be positive about that. It’s unreasonable. You don’t know how you’re going to feel in, say, five years. Or how the other person is going to feel. I am sure my first wife was 100% willing to make the commitment to stay with me for the rest of her life, but it turns out she was wrong.

            • rodneyAnonymous

              *thought she was 100% willing

            • rodneyAnonymous

              I agree that it shouldn’t be, but it definitely is. A lot of spouses feel like they don’t have to keep being nice to each other once they’re married. I don’t want her to be bound to me by anything but her will.

            • http://iwant2knowyourstory.blogspot.com/ Niva Tuvia

              I get your point. But as corny as it is, I think it’s possible for people to love each other enough to know if they can make that commitment, and do so because they want to, and always uphold that commitment –because they want to, and not end up divorced. I think it’s possible for people to be able to determine if it will work out for good or not. But then again I believe in the soul, spirit, etc., so I guess that explains why I think that.

            • http://iwant2knowyourstory.blogspot.com/ Niva Tuvia

              And in my opinion, marriage shouldn’t change anything but to elevate the level of intimacy and commitment. If someone thinks marriage means they can slack off, then they shouldn’t marry.

            • claidheamh mor

              My opinion is probably significantly affected by having been married before (church wedding and everything).

              I like your opinions on this, without ever having been married.

            • rodneyAnonymous

              Sure. That’s what I mean when I said “some people believe in it, and that belief has power”. But I don’t :)

            • http://iwant2knowyourstory.blogspot.com/ Niva Tuvia

              Oh, I thought it said that belief -doesn’t- have power. Lol. Guess I need to read more carefully.

        • Mary Lynne

          If marriage really were a private, religious institution, this might make more sense. But it is a public institution regulated by the government. You could get married by a preacher, but it’s not legal in the eyes of the government unless you have a government provided marriage license, right? So why does it make sense that only religious institutions can define what marriage is?

          Another point – a traditional, biblical marriage is the only valid one, right? So you believe in marriage between a man and his wives?

      • http://billpost.blogspot.com/ Bill

        “Marriage = Man + Woman.”

        Says who?

        Based on what authority?

    • Francesc

      “God has in NO way EVER sanctioned the idea of the gay/lesbian sex and never will. It is unnatural and wrong. I am tolerant of those who believe otherwise but I believe that God would wants the term “Marriage” preserved for the holy institution HE designed.”

      God has in NO way EVER sanctioned any idea. Just that. He can’t also “want” neither design. God doesn’t exist. You don’t have a skydaddy to do responsible for your bigotry, sorry. It’s all yours.

      And by the way, there is nothing less “natural” than God, what a strange use of the word you have been doing here.

      • she-has-courage

        It is my belief that there is NOTHING more natural than GOD. But I truly respect YOUR view.

        • http://metroblog.blogspot.com Metro

          So your god screwed things up when he/she created homos, is that your point?

          “I don’t believe in mixed marriages. So come up with your own creative words for Catholic-Protestant miscagenation, and the abomination of Christians marrying Muslims or Buddhists, but don’t call it “marriage”.”

          Does that sound as stupid to you, she-has-courage, as your idea does to me?

          • Jabster

            Why stop at just the word marriage — why not use some creative juice to come up with new versions for dating and kissing? I for one don’t want to see the meaning of the word dating being *perverted*!

        • DarkMatter

          “It is my belief that there is NOTHING more natural than GOD. But I truly respect YOUR view.”

          Doing it with God, modern “Marys” naturally “done” by invincible God?
          I truly respect your view and pleasure.

        • GBM

          NOT to be a JERK or anything BUT we MIGHT take YOU a LITTLE more SERIOUSLY if YOU laid OFF the UNNECESSARY capitalization AND focused on providing less passion and more substance in your argumentation.

        • Red Dave

          @ She has courage
          If you truly respect others views, why do you want to enforce your views upon them under the law?
          If you and your church belive a certain way, you should then follow your beliefs.
          If I do not believe as you do, you show me no respect by trying to make me bend to your beliefs. This is why so many here see you as bigoted.

    • Framtonm

      That’s because the Bible includes the writings of Paul; and if you read his letters carefully he appears to be a gay male who doesn’t like women at all.

      • Elemenope

        I’ve seen this claim made before, but never supported with much. Perhaps you can point me to an exegesis of Paul’s epistles that points to this concealed homosexuality?

      • Francesc

        And anyway, how is suposed to be Paul letter’s less godly-inspired than the rest of the bible? Wich man can decide how to interpret the words of almighty God?

        • Red Dave

          What book of the bible did God pen?

    • professoryackle

      It is unnatural and wrong. I am tolerant of those who believe otherwise but…

      Really? Firstly, who are you to decide what goes down? In the great scheme of things, you’re just nobody – as am I.

      Secondly, if you’re tolerant, why is it that my impression of you, based on the things you’ve said on here, is one of extreme intolerance? That “but” is a dead giveaway.

      Thirdly, every time you capitalise it SOUNDS like you’re STAMPing your FOOT.

  • elianara

    I had a few problems with her answer.
    First, she didn’t really answer the question. The question was if other states should follow Vermont, or if not, why. Second point, she was not articulate, which was shown in her use of same sex and opposite marriage. Third, in most states you can’t choose. And lastly, the use of “my country”. If she had said “I believe same sex marriage is wrong, but every state should choose to do as they like”, I would have liked her answer just fine, and maybe even applauded her beliefs.

    • http://www.wortvogel.de Torsten

      Well, I agree, but I also feel that this is obviously what she MEANT. She is not a brain surgeon, and was in a very competetive environment. It’s not like she said “gays should be shot”.

      Can’t we cut a girl some slack? She’s not Ray Comfort. Or Rick Warren.

  • Flea

    Yes! Let’s be biblically correct: I say we follow Deuteronomy 22:21: Stone her!

  • Reginald Selkirk

    I think it’s great that Americans are able to choose one or the other

    “But in my country, … I think that I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman.

    There’s no work left to be done. She contradicted herself in the first two lines.

  • andyb

    Well, she qualified it with “in my family”, so I presume she will be cool, if we all ignore her. Apart from her unfortunate close relations.

  • Shelly

    I give her a pass on this, yes she’s ignorant and seems to be a bigot but I have to assume she was raised this way. We know how hard it is to break away from the way our families believe and learn to think. And since her life-goal has been a stupid pageant, I’m just guessing that learning to think hasn’t been a priority.
    And what we say in my southern non-secular family to people like her is ,”Bless your little heart”.

    • Daniel Florien

      So if someone was raised to hate a certain group of people, you’ll give them a pass? ;)

      • MahouSniper

        The Hitler Youth must be relieved.

    • rodneyAnonymous

      A friend of mine’s parents and other immediate family are neo-Nazis. Full-on racist. She is an independent adult, but has conditioned racist opinions, and it’s a constant struggle for her to “unlearn” them. I give her a pass on simple, day-to-day actions; but if she were speaking into a microphone in front of a crowd, I’d imagine she would choose her words very carefully, because no one is giving anyone a pass.

  • Andy

    My favorite part is everyone saying “She shouldn’t be punished for that view” but isn’t a major part of that part of the competition about being eloquent? She referred to Straight marriage as opposite marriage. Not exactly eloquent

    • Francesc

      I though it was about being beautiful, and that the eloquent part was only “politically correct”. But of course, maybe I’m wrong :-P

  • http://www.dougwadedesign.com dwade

    good for her, sh’e got my vote

    • Roger

      Quelle suprise.

    • http://progressatallcost.blogspot.com/ markbey

      I thought you were leaving and wasn’t coming back.

      • Roger

        Heh. I didn’t believe that for a second. I read that as an immature grab for attention. It’d be nice, though.

      • Daniel Florien

        He has stockholm syndrome — he wants to leave this horrible place where he is “radically verbally abused,” but he keeps coming back for more.

        • Roger

          Sounds like a flagellant to me.

        • vorjack

          Maybe if we’re all really, really nice to him he’ll go away?

          • Roger

            We can only hope!

    • Slurms

      Didn’t realize she was running for anything that would receive your vote.

  • Roger

    She’s a bigoted dumbass, that’s for sure. However, when has anyone taken the words of a Miss America contestant (especially one who didn’t even win) seriously enough to make public policy? And Perez Hilton ain’t no damn hero for calling her a bitch. Frankly, I think he’s one step below pond scum. To me, it’s two morons having it out…and nobody wins.

  • Siveambrai

    We just don’t want the term to apply to something that God NEVER intended it to apply to.

    Which god? In which holy book? What are you referring to exactly? I mean if I have a new holy book delivered to me by My Lord that says he’s ok with gay marriage its not a problem then? What about every other religion out there that may have a representation within the US? Shouldn’t they also get a say? What’s so special about YOUR god?

    God has in NO way EVER sanctioned the idea of the gay/lesbian sex and never will. It is unnatural and wrong. I am tolerant of those who believe otherwise but I believe that God would wants the term “Marriage” preserved for the holy institution HE designed.

    I wasn’t aware that he was so outspoken on this issue. Perchance where can I find this detailed missive in which he extols the horrors of dude love (or chick love)? Does he also detail and list in great depth exactly how he would like modern marriage to be? I mean he has to have specific passages about insurance and tax breaks in there right?

    …no? Hmm. I guess your god doesn’t actually have much to say on the issue. So stfu and stop hiding behind him. Stand on your own opinion and take being ridiculed for stupidity.

    Personally, I think she made a stupid and close-minded response. It was inarticulate, as someone else pointed out, as well as contradictory. However, given the general responses to these question and answer sections of beauty pageants I don’t think this answer should come as a surprise. Typically the individuals who engage in them have very rigid and narrowly defined roles for women that doesn’t encourage them thinking independently. For two examples check out Toddlers and Tiaras and Ms. Teen South Carolina

  • MahouSniper

    I’m also confused about why we’re putting so much stock in what a model has to say. These people aren’t known for being overly intelligent. At least she was more polite about it than other bigots.

    • Roger

      Why…why, that’s bigoted, Mahou! You’re an anti-modelist! A raaaabid anti-modelist! :)

    • she-has-courage

      Aren’t you being a bit reckless in your use of the term bigot? Sounds like you are simply using the label for those who you disagree with.

      Also I thought she was known for being more of a basketball player than a model. She seems pretty sharp to me.

      • Roger

        If by “sharp” you mean “unable to articulate a cogent, thoughtful response that wouldn’t enrage a dumb blogger,” then I totally agree. /sarcasm

        Oh, and by the by, you never did bother to present your own argument as to why gay marriage threatens “traditional marriage.” I await your response.

        • she-has-courage

          The idea of it just pisses me off! I will have to take some time to articulate my deeper feelings so check back later.

          • Joe B

            You have a strong deep distaste for homosexuals that you can’t express the reasoning behind.

            Yeah, you aren’t bigoted at all.

            • she-has-courage

              I actually have NO strong deep distaste for homosexuals. I actually have quite a bit of respect for most gays/lesbians that I know or have associated with. I just don’t like the thought that someone or some group is trying to hijack a word that I feel should be utilized only for traditional unions.

              Many are throwing around words like: bigot, hate, prejudiced, discriminate in order to inflame the situation. It is actually quite humorous. It really is making same sex advocates look like quite the group of uptight paranoid people wanting positive stokes or affirmations. Perez Hilton is not helping, he is putting a really bad face on your cause.

              Have confidence in who you are and what you might believe or what you enjoy doing. Just don’t try to label everyone who doesn’t agree with you eye to eye as “bigots”. Freely do your own thing just quit try to FORCE it on everyone.

              Quit whining, wanting affirmation from the government or those who don’t see things the way you may. I will accept you or your kind because you are GOOD people not because you are trying to force all of society to affirm your choices in life.

              Most of us who are straight want you to have ALL reasonable rights. Just quit trying to force us to acknowledge, condone or affirm your choices. I really do love you all. Seriously please accept that.

              The radical approach appears to just be digging a deeper hole for you to extricate yourselves from.

            • Elemenope

              Methinks you should do some research on the word “marriage”. There is very little traditional about its current form. Not only in the Bible do you have the Man + Woman + Woman + Woman + Woman thing, but until 1545 in the Christian world there wasn’t even such a thing as a religious marriage, and the state didn’t get involved in marriage until 1753.

            • spencer

              I’m sorry, but that’s utter crap. You really believe that equal rights for all people is somehow secondary to the definition of a word??? The meaning of a stupid little word is more important to you than the happiness of millions of people in this country?

              If so, then your priorities are monstrously fucked up.

            • GBM

              “The radical approach appears to just be digging a deeper hole for you to extricate yourselves from.”

              Once again fundies demonstrate that they have absolutely no sense of irony. Incidentally same sex marriage actually *is* traditional in a number of cultures, especially Native American ones. Ever heard of two spirit people?

            • Roger

              What the frakity frak do you mean by “hijacking” marriage? You keep using these loaded, emotionally charged words and phrases, but don’t bother to articulate anything other than an inchoate fear of homosexuals somehow intangibly destroying some precious yet ill-defined “institution.” You use buzz words, but there’s no “there” there.

            • Roger

              Oh, and to date, you have provided not one scintilla of evidence concerning the alleged “threat” of gay marriage to heterosexuals. All you’ve proffered is a bunch of moronic statements that are reducible to your personal preferences, bigotries (yes, you’re a bigot; deal with it), and prejudices.

            • Trevor

              she-has-courage: “Freely do your own thing just quit try to FORCE it on everyone.”

              Oh the hypocrisy!

              No-one is trying to force YOU to get married to another woman. You however, ARE trying to force your definition of marriage onto a group of people who may view things differently.

            • rodneyAnonymous

              I just don’t like the thought that someone or some group is trying to hijack a word that I feel should be utilized only for traditional unions.

              It’s not about hijacking a definition, it’s about being denied about 1400 legal benefits to being married.

            • Joe B

              You’re assuming things s-c-h.

              Have confidence in who you are and what you might believe or what you enjoy doing.

              I will accept you or your kind because you are GOOD people not because you are trying to force all of society to affirm your choices in life.

              Freely do your own thing just quit try to FORCE it on everyone.

              Most of us who are straight want you

              Straight people can want gays to have complete equality too. Personally I love the opposite sex (maybe it was the random color the site assigned to by generic logo that threw you) and I am 100% behind all people having equal rights.

            • Jabster

              “I will accept you or your kind …”

              What do you actaully mean by “kind” — I’m confused?

          • http://metroblog.blogspot.com Metro

            And it’s shc for the FAIL.

            “Gay marriage can’t be marriage ‘cos it’s icky!”

            Maybe you’re repressing something? It’s okay. Like you, we don’t judge people. Except when they’re making ignorant, prejudiced, airheaded statements and then can’t back them up with any degree of rational argument.

            So, … okay, I guess we’re judging you. I am, anyway.

          • Roger

            I await your reasoned argument with bated breath. Oh, and as far as that later argument is concerned, I couldn’t care less about your feelings; I want to know what you think gay marriage would do to allegedly “traditional” marriage. If you want to suss out your feelings, seek a therapist. In other words, give me a logical, rational argument that articulates the negative effects of gays getting married and how those marriages affect heterosexuals who get married.

            • mstria

              I’m starting to think “I can’t respond due to xyz. I’ll be back with my well thought out response” really means:
              “I can’t back up the rhetoric I just spewed on the blog. I’ll be back once I’ve asked someone better versed in dogma how to answer the mean atheists.”

          • Red Dave

            Thats very telling she has courage. Why does it piss you off? Is it as I think, because it does not agree with your view?

      • MahouSniper

        Reckless in my use of the word bigot? By definition, a bigot is “a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance”

        She is promoting discrimination against an entire group of people due to their sexual orientation, as are you. So no, I was not misusing the term bigot.

      • Eowyn

        “Aren’t you being a bit reckless in your use of the term bigot?”

        From Merriam-Webster.com:
        Bigot (n): a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices ; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

        Nope… that’s pretty much you, she-has-courage.

      • claidheamh mor

        Yeah, she-has-courage-by-dumb-rote-but-no-reasoning-capacity can’t see past all the fallacies in the ASSumptions about what’s “traditional”.

        No way is s/he going to

        bother to present your own argument as to why gay marriage threatens “traditional marriage.”

        when s/he’s already thinking process off, automatic emotional reactions on, starting with the word “traditional”.

  • http://www.lifesite.ca Don Uthole

    She politely expressed an opinion yet the gay community can not tolerate that someone would believe that gay marriage is wrong. I think in the end, you’re desire to “be accepted” by everyone will lead you to try to destroy the Church. The Christian narrative is the basis of our belief that homogenital sex leads to a non-generative society, and the logical outcome of your misguided belief that homosexuality is somehow a genetic identity is the use the government to stamp out the Church. They are trying in Canada where it is pretty much illegal to say homosexuality is a sin.

    As for your comparison between homosexuality and racism, that ridiculous. There is nothing biologically different between a Caucasian man and an African man. They are the same, whereas a woman and man are different, unless of course you buy into the silliness of lesbian feminist thought.

    It’s time for the Church to become more militant in this culture war, and I see the seeds of this militancy growing. We have the most organized institution in the world, with the highest levels of commitment of any organization. The kindling is being laid, and in time the fire will be ignited.

    • Joe B

      I’m not sure if that comment is scary or funny.

      • Andrew

        Scary. Definitely scary.

        • DarkMatter

          “It’s time for the Church to become more militant in this culture war, and I see the seeds of this militancy growing. We have the most organized institution in the world, with the highest levels of commitment of any organization. The kindling is being laid, and in time the fire will be ignited.’

          Which is more scary, using iranian glue or fire?
          http://www.samesame.com.au/news/international/3917/Gays-Being-Tortured-With-Glue-In-Iraq.htm

          • Red Dave

            Another person so filled with the love of Jesus they want to burn all the people in disagreement with them.
            Did not your lord say to love thy neighbor as thyself?
            Is that got an “except for gays, or liberals, or whatever pisses you off” clause in it somewhere? I can’t find such a clause in any translation.

    • http://iwant2knowyourstory.blogspot.com/ Niva Tuvia

      “It’s time for the Church to become more militant in this culture war, and I see the seeds of this militancy growing. We have the most organized institution in the world, with the highest levels of commitment of any organization. The kindling is being laid, and in time the fire will be ”

      WHOAH! O.o Are you SERIOUS?! I’m hoping you’re not planning some kind of mass burning of people who don’t like the church…

    • MahouSniper

      And there is nothing biologically different than a gay man and a straight man. So why should they be discriminated against?

      • http://metroblog.blogspot.com Metro

        I think the key is that Don Uhole insists that men and women are different.

        So it’s women he’d prefer to discriminate against.

      • Joe B

        didn’t you hear she-has-courage. It’s because they are icky.

    • http://blog.dc-agape.com dc-agape

      Don Uthole,
      The gay community is not destroying either marriage or the Church. With half of marriage ending in divorce, “traditional marriage” is already dead. With attitudes like yours, many young people are put off by religion…hence the great outpouring of New Atheist books in the recent past. Most of the churches that are surviving are attempting to create a “make-over”, to make them more palatable to the devout.
      The concept of becoming more “more militant in this culture war” is exactly what we need. (/sarcasm). Christian jihad in the US and Muslim jihad in the Middle East. We could try the crusades again, wouldn’t that be fun!

      • http://iwant2knowyourstory.blogspot.com/ Niva Tuvia

        “With attitudes like yours, many young people are put off by religion…hence the great outpouring of New Atheist books in the recent past. ”

        The #1 reason people become atheists: religious people.

      • http://billpost.blogspot.com/ Bill

        “The #1 reason people become atheists: religious people.”

        I doubt this very much. Religious people often don’t help, but I know many many religious people shom I admire very much.

        My guess (and it is a guess) is that lack of evidence for god causes more atheists than anything else.

    • LRA

      Don you are about as offensive as you are ignorant.

      “The Christian narrative is the basis of our belief that homogenital sex leads to a non-generative society,”

      Really? Then PLEASE explain to me how the world’s population went from 3 BILLION to 6 BILLION in the last 50 years?

      Our world is OVERPOPULATED.

      Even so, whether or not gay people get married isn’t going to affect this at all. It’s not like they’re suddenly going to marry straight people and start having kids.

      BTW, there are very distinct differences between races and genders, as well as between individuals. Being racist is EXACTLY like being homophobic for this reason.

      • LRA

        sorry- very distinct differences should read “very distinct genetic differences”

        • Siveambrai

          Our world is OVERPOPULATED.

          Even so, whether or not gay people get married isn’t going to affect this at all. It’s not like they’re suddenly going to marry straight people and start having kids.

          And to fix this major problem we have religion like the Catholic Church and the pope scaring the hell out of people regarding the usefulness of cheap disposable birth control.

          It really is a race to see if we’ll blow ourselves up or starve ourselves out first.

      • dr.R.

        Almost 7 billion, and counting.

    • Roger

      Well there’s ten pounds of crazy in a five pound sack! Good luck reasoning with that nutbar!

    • Francesc

      “I think in the end, you’re desire to “be accepted” by everyone will lead you to try to destroy the Church”
      They shouldn’t fight for nothing. You -and people like you- are doing a pretty good job destroying it.

      “The Christian narrative is the basis of our belief that homogenital sex leads to a non-generative society, and the logical outcome of your misguided belief that homosexuality is somehow a genetic identity is the use the government to stamp out the Church”
      So, you believe what is said in an old and incoherent book, written for other times and for others societies. Who has a problem then?
      But you are not defending slavery, you are picking parts of the bible you agree with, and ignoring others. It’s your morals, not an unchangeable moral written by god. It’s not your sky-daddy’s fault: those are your opinions. “Be a man” and recognize it.

      “They are trying in Canada where it is pretty much illegal to say homosexuality is a sin.”
      Those bizarre canadians! :-p

      “They are the same, whereas a woman and man are different, unless of course you buy into the silliness of lesbian feminist thought.”
      So, you don’t have only problems with the canadians, but also with women? Do you want a women to serve you? Buy yourself a dog!

      “It’s time for the Church to become more militant in this culture war, and I see the seeds of this militancy growing. We have the most organized institution in the world, with the highest levels of commitment of any organization. The kindling is being laid, and in time the fire will be ignited.”
      Are you really calling for a crusade? What would be the difference then between you and islamic terrorists?
      I don’t live in the US, but I could be afraid of that boy having acces to a gun.

      Yeah, the perfect example about the problems of strong religious beliefs.

  • http://WhoHasTimeForThis.com David

    Carrie, don’t listen to them! I agree with whatever you say, no matter how fucked up it is.

    David 650.853.7001 (call me)

    • rodneyAnonymous

      LOL I totally didn’t get this until I realized Miss California’s name is Carrie.

    • professoryackle

      Top answer!

  • Ty

    Hey, don’t be mean to Uthole!

    He’s just following Jesus example of extreme militantism in spreading his beliefs!!!

    Remember, Jesus told his disciples, “Those who live by the sword will totally kick ass and win!”

  • dr.R.

    About Miss California, it’s amazing how some people try to live up to all possible stereotypes.

    In this respect it’s a pity she didn’t become Miss America.

    • http://metroblog.blogspot.com Metro

      Your “refreshing thoughts” are neither refreshing nor thoughts. For you it’s all about emotion, with nary a connection to the brain. As is evinced in your line of (hollow laughing) reasoning.

      Your book teaches that multiple marriage, slave wives, and the like are all condoned by your god. Yet for some reason society has already rejected this view of the thing you call “marriage.”

      Yet it’s the gay marriage supporters who want to “change” it?

      You need to dig yourself out of that narrow little trench you use for a mind and actually think about this.

      For starters, explain to me how this affects any “marriage” you may have now or in future. Exactly what effect will “changing” the definition of that word have?

      Gay marriage isn’t new. Several societies have had one version or another. Evidence has been found suggesting that some churches used to perform gay marriages.

      So it’s hardly about “redefining” anything, is it. You just find the idea of gay sex icky, and you want to inflict that prejudice on your friends and neighbours, apparently.

      Remember, I’m not against you personally. I just think you need some encouragement to venture into new areas of thought.

    • http://metroblog.blogspot.com Metro

      Dammit–need more coffee. This is for SHC. Will repost below.

      • dr.R.

        Make it a double espresso!

  • she-has-courage

    ***Reposted from above so these enlightened and refreshing thoughts can be enjoyed more easily by all***

    Anyway you try to spin it Male/Male, Female/Female, may have genuine love involved but in my silly little book it is NOT marriage.

    You may have invented something new, invent a new name for it. The following may both involve something you put between your legs but we don’t call a motorcycle a horse. We don’t call an apple an orange.

    You figure out what to call it. You create something new and unique YOU give it a new and unique name. The ball is in your court on that one. I know there is enough creativity in that community to figure out what to call “IT”.

    My best wishes truly are with you. You want to believe I am against you but I am NOT. I think you just need some encouragement as you venture into new territory.

    • dr.R.

      You put apples between your legs?

      I don’t understand your problem. If I want to call it marriage, I call it marriage. I really don’t see how that is going to do you any harm.

      Maybe you need to get a life.

      • she-has-courage

        No, but I tried a pumpkin one time and I have a great life. Thank you.

        • dr.R.

          So, how is that great life of yours being endangered if some gays or lesbians want to marry and want to name it as it is?

          How is a gay or lesbian marriage any different from a ‘normal’ marriage anyway? Do you think they don’t love each other as much as xian heteosexuals do?

        • Francesc

          Bestiality -and I believe “vegetality”- is condemned in the bible by… death (what a surprise).
          Death for both, human and pumpkin, but it may be too late for the pumpkin
          (ok, only kidding)

    • Elemenope

      Here’s a good place to start. The definition of marriage has never historically been stable. Your demands for respect for “traditional” marriage hearken back to a non-existent concept.

      • Daniel Florien

        But marriage is the way she defines it, not history or you!

        I always find it interesting that Christians want to define marriage as the Bible talks about it, but then are against polygamy and sexual slavery.

        But it makes sense — in the end, it’s not REALLY even about what the Bible says. THEY think homosexuality is wrong, so THEY want to make it illegal for gays to have equal rights.

        • Margaret

          I always find it interesting that Christians want to define marriage as the Bible talks about it, but then are against polygamy and sexual slavery.

          A number of Christians define marriage as the submission of a woman to a man, i.e. the ownership of a woman by a man, i.e. a form of sexual slavery.

          • GBM

            Yeah but even amongst them you’d have a hard time (I hope) building support for the actual quid-pro-quo money for daughter arrangement that the bible explicitly lays out…

            “If a man sell his daughter-Hebrew girls might be redeemed for a reasonable sum. But in the event of her parents or friends being unable to pay the redemption money, her owner was not at liberty to sell her elsewhere. Should she have been betrothed to him or his son, and either change their minds, a maintenance must be provided for her suitable to her condition as his intended wife, or her freedom instantly granted.” Ex 21:7-36

    • http://www.lswtf.com JackGonzo

      SHC…you say you don’t see how it is bigoted, why we just can’t use another word, etc etc etc. I just want to throw a term out there for ya…maybe you’ve heard of it before…seperate but equal. Do you remember those days? The days of, oh they get the same thing we do, just not exactly what we get.

      Almost every argument that was ever used to hold back minorities in this country is now being used against homosexuals now. You see it as your “word” being used, but marriage was around long before the bible was so I don’t exactly see how you and yours have sole authority over a word.

      I hear it all the time…we just want to keep our marriage, traditions, yada yada yada. All that is is the decoration on your prejudice cupcake. If marriage is so important why do “Christians” get divorced? Why is the battle against homosexuals getting married and not against people getting divorced? Which is the bigger threat to marriage?

      Of course this is like talking to a wall, so I’ll let you retreat back into the bible bunker…maybe you’ll actually spend time reading and comprehending it and not just what folks tell you it says.

      • Roger

        Something tells me comprehension is not SHC’s strong suit.

      • claidheamh mor

        Okay, that made me laugh out loud.

        I call out s-l-b’s (s-h-c’s) automatic emotional reactions and ASSumptions and complete ignorance of not only how people choose meaning for a sound and written blurb that we call a “word”, but also her own complete ignorance of her self and her ASSumptions and reactions. Then she strings words together that sound almost like a supporting argument and reasoning, to support her chosen beliefs and emotional reactions. No cops will ticket her (or dwade) for impersonating someone who learns and reasons. Since I believe learning, re-evaluating, changing, reasoning, and learning about one’s beliefs and reactions are part of being fully human, to me, they are impersonating human beings.

        Then here is this delicious understatement that comprehension is not s-h-c’s strong suit.

        Mmmmphhhh…. snicker *snerk* hahahahahaha!

    • http://metroblog.blogspot.com Metro

      Your “refreshing thoughts” are neither refreshing nor thoughts. For you it’s all about emotion, with nary a connection to the brain. As is evinced in your line of (hollow laughing) reasoning.

      Your book teaches that multiple marriage, slave wives, and the like are all condoned by your god. Yet for some reason society has already rejected this view of the thing you call “marriage.”

      Yet it’s the gay marriage supporters who want to “change” it?

      You need to dig yourself out of that narrow little trench you use for a mind and actually think about this.

      For starters, explain to me how this affects any “marriage” you may have now or in future. Exactly what effect will “changing” the definition of that word have?

      Gay marriage isn’t new. Several societies have had one version or another. Evidence has been found suggesting that some churches used to perform gay marriages.

      So it’s hardly about “redefining” anything, is it. You just find the idea of gay sex icky, and you want to inflict that prejudice on your friends and neighbours, apparently.

      Remember, I’m not against you personally. I just think you need some encouragement to venture into new areas of thought.

      • LRA

        Here’s a better idea. How about the state issues civil unions to all consenting adults and be done with it. All people need to be equal under the law. Period.

      • LRA

        oops. I meant that to post under Andrew NP’s comment “Here’s an idea. Instead of calling it “marriage,” we call it “gay marriage,”

        • Andrew N.P.

          Still haven’t figured out the new comment system, eh? It’s cool. And anyway, why make up a weird name like “civil union” when we already have a perfectly serviceable term like “marriage” to describe it? The whole point of my post was to mock this impulse to call gay marriage something else. After all, even with the adjective, it would still be “marriage,” which is what seems to bother these people.

          • LRA

            Sorry. I thought you were advocating a lesser form of marriage for gay people by calling it gay marriage rather than just marriage. I personally think that if religious people want to call marriage a religious thing, then we should just take marriage away from them all together in the legal realm. The state could just offer them a civil union, just like for gay people. Let’s see how they like that!

            Stoopid bigots!

    • Andrew N.P.

      Okay. Here’s an idea. Instead of calling it “marriage,” we call it “gay marriage,” because it’s as close to your definition of “marriage” as “gay” people are going to get. Sort of like how a “motorcycle” is nothing more than a “motor”ized bi”cycle.” Just because you want a new word for it doesn’t mean we can’t use existing words to get there.

    • MahouSniper

      I’d like to direct you to Brown vs. Board of Education. I think “separate but equal” was pretty effectively overturned there.

      I honestly don’t care how much you like that word, it’s unjust to deny gays their rights.

      • murrowcronkite

        I agree. It is sad that prop 8 went down in California partly because Blacks don’t realize that the same rhetoric being used against Gay people was used against Blacks before Civil Rights reform.
        Next time around!

  • EBrock

    From a purely Biblical standpoint, she is correct–the Bible does condemn “male” homosexuality. But I am still trying to find where it condemns “lesbianism”.

    Just a thought.

    • vorjack

      I guess the closest thing to a condemnation of lesbians would be Romans 1:26-27 [RSV]-

      “For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.”

      But this implies that homosexuality in both genders is a punishment from God, or perhaps a consequence of straying from God. Homosexuality as an effect.

      • EBrock

        Isn’t it interesting that even in this passage the women’s “unnatural” relation is unspecified, but the male act is very specific. It should be evident to anyone that the writers of the Bible (all men) were very uncomfortable with male homosexuality, but feared lesbianism far less.

        It continues today as well. I suspect (and would love to see the statistics on it) that the vast majority of complaints & coverage of the gay marriage issue highlight the male aspect of it, especially considering that most of the discomfort is coming from the men in power.

        • rodneyAnonymous

          That’s because girl-girl is hot.

          • LRA

            I suspect its because girl-girl doesn’t involve penetration. I took a class on gender studies and we talked about the fact that being penetrated is traditionally a “female” “role” (for lack of a better word). This is why homophobes fear male-male sex but not female-female sex. Once again, thousands of years old tradition proves itself ridiculous!

        • Margaret

          I suspect (and would love to see the statistics on it) that the vast majority of complaints & coverage of the gay marriage issue highlight the male aspect of it, especially considering that most of the discomfort is coming from the men in power.

          Similarly, I suspect (and would love to see the statistics on it) that the complaints & coverage of child sexual molestation concentrate on the boy victims more than on the girl victims. I have no specific citations, much less actual statistics, but I have seen outrage over the “unnatural” sexual abuse of little boys that made me wonder if the outraged person did not consider the sexual abuse of little girls to be not as “unnatural.” I hope I was wrong.

    • claidheamh mor

      And if both genders and all orientations get frustrated, I think they also get in trouble for making images of men and committing whoredom with them. “No Exit” becomes “No Outlet”?

    • Tammy

      When your tongue has a Hardon then you cant see where God forbids sex against, the same sex/ Leviticus.
      18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman: that is detestable.

      As regards to Miss California and her response to that question. If you wanted an answer that satan would have given then you should ask satan to glorifiy your sin.

      Not an Angel of GOD !

      • Roger

        Uh-oh, boys and girls,we’ve got ourselves another Leviticus quoting whackadoodle! I wonder how much of Leviticus Mz. Tammy has actually read…and if she actually leaves town when she has her monthly visitor.

  • godsfavoritecolor

    Does “Ut” mean “Ass” in some other language?
    Just wondered.

  • Pingback: Miss California is a bigot | The Good Atheist

  • http://MSN D*D*

    WOW! With all this backlashing–IT IS THE END OF TIME. I BELIEVE!!!

    • Daniel Florien

      Are you suggesting all the fundies will be raptured into heaven soon? If so, PRAISE GOD!

      Also, if you really think it is the end of time, please donate your 401k, stocks, and savings unto me. Who needs all that money for the future when you won’t be here? It shows that you don’t really trust God. Give it to me! God says so!

      • Custador

        True, true. If you really believe in the rapture, then you should prove it by giving away all of your Earthly goods in one final selfless act before you ascend on a column of flaming flatulence unto the heavens. I’d keep the CD collection if I were you, though – everybody hates Christian “rock”.

  • J.R.

    I wasn’t offended by her comments, but rather felt bad for her. Not only is she not enlightened, but is a hipocrite for having fake ta-ta’s and not having modesty.

    • LRA

      haaaaaahahahaaaaaahaaaahaa!!!!!!!!

  • professoryackle

    My Malaysian friend said she witnessed a wedding in Malaysia between a rural priest and a donkey. I expressed disbelief. She said, “Oh, but you should have seen his face – he clearly loved that donkey.”

    I didn’t ask whether the donkey was male or female.

    • Francesc

      There was news some weeks ago, about an indian girl being married with an animal -I don’t remeber the animal- because she was damned and, doing so, she will be cleaned (or something like that).

      Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human-animal_marriage
      “historically people have married animals as part of religious traditions or to bring good luck, often involving elaborate ceremonies.”

      “June 2003 – a nine year old Indian girl of the Santal (or ‘Santhal’) tribe of Khanyhan, near Calcutta was formally married to a dog, in order to ward off a bad omen. The wedding was attended by more than one hundred guests, who danced to the beating of drums and drank home-made liquor. The girl told Western press, “I have no regret in marrying the dog Bacchan. I am fond of the dog who moves around our locality,” and tribal elders added she was free to remarry in future as an adult. [2] ”

      “February 2006 – a Sudanese man caught having sex with a neighbour’s goat which was subsequently nicknamed Rose, was ordered by the council of elders to pay the neighbour a dowry of 5,000 Sudanese dinars ($50) and marry the animal. [2] “

  • Aeryn

    Can somebody help me justify, ‘Her opinion IS WRONG’? o.O

    • professoryackle

      Aarrgh! The irony, it burns.

    • rodneyAnonymous

      My opinion is that murder is OK. Opinions can’t be wrong, can they?

  • Francesc

    I will try to sumarize…

    1.- The word “marriage” has been used in very different ways and meanings among our history. It’s the society who decides what to call “marriage”.

    2.- Religious beliefs have to do nothing about the use of the word, as it is also a civil institution.

    3.- There is not any significative difference between a man and a woman wanting to live together and 2 men or 2 women doing the same. The only difference would be having children, but then steril people couldn’t get married. And you could always adopt children.

    4.- “being biblically correct” is a very unfortunate expression for a woman wearing an skimpy outfit. She’s reflecting a double-moral. Christians pick up some parts of the bible while forgetting others. It’s not about god’s morals, but about personal morals

  • Red Dave

    Ok marrige.
    1. I think marrige should be given to the religions Cart Blance, ie no “special rights under the law for marrige”. They could then be forced to obey their own religious laws however foolish I think they might be. Let them have it, I dont see why Gays would want the term itself anyway.
    2. Elevate civil unions under the law to have all the rights that marrige currently grants, all 1400 or so. Anyone who is married could also apply for a civil union (if they want those rights), but it would function under their own religious laws (by their personal choice to be “married”).
    3. Create a new contractural law called an SC or shagging contract. This would be an ironclad contract (which goes into effect everytime you shag baby) to provide for any children created by any means. Hence if your shagging, you pay for your childs needs, period. The marital contract protects the people involved, but the children are an afterthought.
    Having been divorced and being a single Dad for a decade I know first hand that children are almost property to be fought over in a divorce proceeding. I would elevate the staus of children to ensure their well being first. Thats a real family value.
    If more religious people cared more about thier own lives than the lives of others, this world would be a better place.

  • smerk

    you know what… you all are people that have your own points of view, with that i say that keep it to yourself because what you are talking about is just as stupid as saying that gays are stupid. U.S.A needs to learn that people with there own opinion should not be put down with there own opinion about that opinion. To tell you the truth she isn’t not what you people make her about to be. All miss California was trying to say is that marriage should be between a man and a woman!

    • LRA

      There is a difference between opinion and bigotry. How would you feel if I told you it was my opinion that interracial marriages were sinful based on biblical passages? When Barak Obama was born, it was STILL illegal in many states for a black man to marry a white woman.

      That is bigotry, and so is anyone else poking their noses in other people’s private lives. How would YOU feel if someone denied YOU the right to marry someone you love?

  • CRB

    I was raised in the South and, no offense meant to anyone, I was raised to believe that n*gg*rs were happy picking cotton. Please…Somebody give this biggoted airhead a job selling orange juice.

  • john

    I say blow all the homosexuals to hell so they can plead their case in hell!

    • John C

      Gee wizz…whatever happened to mercy, compassion, love? Or do you think God doesn’t love them too?

      • LRA

        JC– thanks for defending. That post was pretty ridiculous!!!

        • john

          Well it gets really fucking ridiculous hearing the woe is me party line over and over! I’m done Out of mercy, out of compassion!

          • LRA

            compassion is what makes us human!

        • John C

          Yea, that kinda stuff is just sad, and NOT from my Father’s heart! :)

      • john

        and don’t you realize there is no god. Just hell and pain, or are you naive?

        • John C

          That’s not true John, love is true…hell and pain are part of the illusion, the adamic dream (nightmare)…awaken, come out of it and Christ will shine on you.

          • john

            you win I’m sorry good bye, I’m taking my life’s frustrations out on things I’ve no business getting into I just want my pain heard can’t keep it in anymore!

            • John C

              You can tell me if you want to unload man…believe me, I know about pain, hurt and loss.

            • john

              I use others as scapegoats to justify my anger but that is no justification in itself is it. I just piss off everyone else. I don’t know why I said what I said I voted yes But this ugly side just wont give me peace and all I want is silence.

            • john

              I am truly sorry for what I said. I hate myself more than anyone else evercould for that comment.

            • John C

              That ugly one is not the true…you. The freedom from him (his nature ruling over us) is found in finding our true identity in Christ, in His love for us. We leave the old, inherited, false self to receieve the new and true, the you He died to give you, its your birthright. Renounce the old, receive the new.

              God love’s John very much, unconditionally and He thinks the world of you, for He knows the real you, the potential he placed in you to carry His spirit, His presence within and to fellowship with Him was His plan all along.

              Better days ahead for you my friend, all the very best.

            • LRA

              Hey guy! Please call a friend and talk to someone. You sound like you are in pain. There are people who care about you– call them, or else tell us! We care!

            • John C

              Dont sweat it, forgive yourself. Geez you should hear some of the things I have said over the years…a lot worse than that.

            • LRA

              John– We CARE!!! :)

  • john

    I’m going through a bad spell, and I am working on it but it gets almost unbearable sometimes and tonight is one of those times. talking to you though has actually helped me and for that I do owe you a big thank you.

    • LRA

      do you want to talk about it? I’m willing to listen if you need an ear! :)

  • john

    are you on this site often?

    • LRA

      Yes, John– both JC and I are. :)

    • John C

      Yea, we’re here a lot…I have a lot of respect for you, takes a real man to open up and be honest, that’s pretty cool John.

  • john

    its true what they say talking helps

    • LRA

      well, talk away if you need to!

  • john

    I wouldn’t know how to really start to talk about it right now but I hope to talk more.

    • LRA

      Well, I respect your boundaries. You are welcome to tell me anything you are comfortable sharing (and you have anonymity here!). But do know that you are a human being, and god or no god, you are unique and precious and irreplaceable! Please, take care of yourself!!! :)

  • john

    then I’ll be back, got some thinking to do but i bookmarked the page

    • LRA

      ok.

    • John C

      I was honored to speak with you, take care John…better days ahead for you!

      • LRA

        My heart is hurting! JC- say a prayer for this man!

        • John C

          Yes, thx for sharing your love, that’s what its all about!

        • LRA

          (can’t hurt to say a prayer!!)

          • John C

            Sucks to go thru life hurting so much, I know cuz I’ve been to hell and back! I haven’t even told you guys my story yet. Maybe one day I will.

            Take care, I appreciate you guys.

            • LRA

              Well, I’ve already talked about some of my pain. I hate to see another person hurting! I always have time for a new friend! I always have time to listen to a hurting person!!!

            • John C

              I’m not surprised LRA…like I’ve said in the past your heart and passion always shine thru, and I think its awesome too. :)

            • LRA

              Yes, we non-believers aren’t all bad!!! Surely, if there is a god, s/he sees that!

            • john

              Talking, or venting, I should say, to you wonderful people, has made today a much better day than yesterday. You helped me immensely!

    • Daniel Florien

      I hope you will, John. I was saddened at your first comment, but was happy to see you regretted it, then saddened again at your pain. Perhaps we can help in some way — the community here is great and quite diverse!

      • LRA

        :) Dan the man! I appreciate you!!!

      • john

        I even signed up for the news letter.

  • penny

    Of course she is right. The gays are the wart on the hand of humanity. The offensive hand that longs to reach out and corrupt our children. Leviticus 18 says it best I think. It IS an abomination before the Lord. God is real, sin is real, and gays are headed for destruction if they do not turn from their sinful ways. That’s not only my opinion, that is the Word of God.

    • Jabster

      If you’re going to be a troll at least make it believable …

    • LRA

      You are so…. so….. ugly!!!!!!

  • beyonddeities

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWH2NXdZ7O8

    THIS.
    Pretty much all the points made in the video.


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