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Atheist:
This is really, really, really good. Seriously — I can’t tell you how awesome I think this video is. It’s 9 minutes, but it’s worth your time.
I’ve been in similar in situations, and I can’t keep my mouth shut for long, either.
Finally, poetry I can appreciate!
[...] (Via Unreasonable Faith) [...]
[...] build-up in this poem. Some NSFW language. Also hilarious. Found by Daniel. Posted by ludditeandroid Filed in Uncategorized ·Tags: ENGLAND, POETRY, PSEUDOSCIENCE, [...]
[...] if you haven’t seen it, be sure to watch Tim Minchin’s “Storm,” a beat poem about homeopathy. « Abstinence-Supporting Senator Admits To Sex With [...]
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I’m trying to memorize this. It’s long, but well worth it.
Holy Crap! That was awesome! :)
worth every minute. Reminds me of dining with my neo-con relatives. It’s like you’re just gonna choke on your own tongue if you (cough) just (cough cough) don’t (choke/cough) SAY something!
Tim Minchin is just bloody great. I saw him live in London not so long ago and had a ‘laughed til my jaw ached’ kinda evening.
That was indeed really enjoyable :)
Thanks for posting that.
You made my day….. Simply fantastic!
I’ve seen that one before, and I’ll add my recommendation. Awesomely funny, and bang on!
This reminds me of one of my bosses. She’s a bit of an old hippie, and she gives be crap about being an atheist all the time.
“You have to get off this atheism kick,” she always advises me before saying something spiritual.
I remember one time we took the train the same direction, and so we sat together. I was on my way to see Hemant Mehta talk, and she wanted to buddho-evangelize to me. She told me to picture a glass.
“If you smash the glass, it doesn’t exist anymore.”
“Stop right there,” I said, “it does too. The pieces still exist, it’s just they aren’t arranged in the shape we call ‘glass’ anymore.”
“Ah,” she smiled “it has changed form. Form is transient but the essence persists.”
I could see where she was going with this. Our human form is temporary, but once our body is ‘broken into peices’ there is something that abides, blah blah blah.
“No, just because we have a word for a concept doesn’t mean the concept is immutable or eternal. It just means we have a word for it,” I said.
There was a moment’s pause, before she blurted out “form is nothing, nothing is form.”
I looked at her quietly, and said “that’s nonsense.”
“I’m not explaining this properly, I need to consult my teachings,” she muttered, and that was the end of the conversation.
This poem is absolutely brilliant and the performance made me chuckle. Quite a fantastic find.
It’s even funnier because I have met people like Minchin’s dinner guest. It’s so much better to laugh than to groan!
Cool poem, thanks.
Ironically, science has always had a terrible time explaining things that don’t exist.
I first heard this poem on Dale McGowan’s blog, and it’s still awesome. Like many other people, I am crippled by a weak ability to STFU in the face of spiritual horse manure. Fortunately for me, the last time I cut loose like this led to a three-day fight with my family which I do not care to repeat, the upshot of that being that I have learned to keep my mouth shut.
I save it for the Internet. ;)
HAHAHAH GOOD SHIT. fOOD FOR THOUGHT. DEFINITELY GONNA FACEBOOK THIS
Only thing I didn’t like was the ending… some people do change their minds.
Tim Minchin is my personal hero. He’s actually coming to America in 2010, or so he himself claimed. I can’t wait til I get the opportunity to see him live.
Flipping amazing. Thanks for sharing this — I’ve been in a cranky mood, and suddenly, I’m reminded to cheer the hell up.
LOVE IT!!! I’m sharing with all my thinking friends. Thanks for sharing such treasures!
wow, this was so brilliantly said.
Holy hell, that was the best thing I’ve seen in a long time. Loved it. From one who can never keep my mouth shut when confronted with amazing ignorance, Minchin is now on my list of personal favorites.
That was great.
A friend forwarded this to me a couple of weeks ago, and then backed up by seeing Tim Minchin live last week, including performing Storm. Excellent!
I hate situations like this because I always come up with the perfect line 10 minutes too late, when I’ve already walked out the door.
Also very good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w
Fabulous!
that was soooo brilliant.
i wound up watching a few of the other Tim Minchin videos on youtube and was so hooked that I am now downloading WAY too much of his stuff from the torrents.
Absolutely brilliant. Thoroughly enjoyed that!
Tim is awesome! Ridiculously smart and a brilliant pianist.
Check his “So Live” DVD, it is really good.
Storm makes actually a good point when she says that Big Pharmas are greedy bastards bent on overselling us drugs…
It’s telling that they spend more on marketing than on R&D.
However, I love the way the move puts it: “Isn’t this natural world enough for you?”
Reducing the beauty and complexity of Nature to simple human mind patterns is arrogant and limitating.
As a physicist, it took me five years of hard studies to have a glimpse of how Nature works, but at least in a way that just poses questions then shuts up and lets Nature speak.
The Aussie hippie came into the discussion with her mind made up about everything and was confronted by a person who had his mind made up about everything. The result was a further polarization of positions. They parted with nothing accomplished except a venting of bottled up frustrations. The universe is wonderful, complex and filled with mysteries waiting to be understood. If we observe it with preconceived notions we will find ways to justify those notions by what we see or refuse to see. The theist accepts the possibility of an invisible aspect to the universe, the agnostic or atheist accepts only what is known or potentially knowable. Two different launch pads for thinking and, unless something changes, “…never the twain shall meet.”
Hurling insults across a street, room or dinner table accomplishes absolutely nothing but the hardening of viewpoints. Both are trying to win the contest, neither does.
Elliott,
The atheist has rejected the possibility of the supernatural. His mind is made up. The theist accepts the possibility of a supernatural. You know there is no invisible aspect and nothing can change your mind. You can claim repeatedly that your mind is not made up but you certainly have failed to convince me. Why not throw in some obscenities and call me stupid? How well is that working for you?
You are right about the clash of ideologies but we can choose to handle error as we see it with civility or not. No civility — no discussion…just a rancorous defense of a viewpoint. As far as throwing out the “kid gloves,” and stamping out “stupidity when you see it, you are absolutely right if you just want to harden a position.
If you like ‘Storm’, you should check out the following Tim Minchin videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaLF8UGr0hQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DXl68NF_uI
I love all of his work, but these are real standouts.
Enjoy!
saw him live in Derby last night, this was amazing!
Got to meet him too! he’s lovely, bless him
I live in fear of this same thing everytime I visit my in-laws.
Awesome poem. I got about a minute into it before I started forwarding the address to half my IM friends.
“Ironically, science has always had a terrible time explaining things that don’t exist.”
We’re really quite good at explaining the unexplained.
“We don’t know yet.”
Sure beats the hell out of “God did it” and that ability to be honest about what we do and don’t know, what we can and can’t explain is one of the core reasons, for me, that science beats the hell out of “spiritual” explanations for anything.
Yeesh, do I ever know what that’s like. When I was a Christian, I thought I was part of some persecuted minority, for sure that everyone stared in ridicule when we’d bow our heads in prayer at restaurants. But now that I’m on the other side I feel like the whole world has gone mad and going out/over to dinner with family and friends can be agony. Here in America, religion (read :Christianity) is so deeply entrenched in politics, that I now have to suffer through both discussions whenever family gatherings occur. But like you Anonymouse, one learns real quick to shut up or make a mess of Aunt Bessie’s dinner. It’s a real lesson in tolerance though. My last meal out with my rabidly rightwing, ultra fundamentalist cousin and his spouse was a freak show. Loud, obnoxious, slamming Obama left and right (all the vitriol from the Christ-loving folk) on some bent about god-less socialism… talk about being in hell.
Yep- save it for the internet. Cheaper than therapy.
Yes, but rarely those who would get -offended- by the statement. At least, that was my interpretation of this holy text. ;)
Oh, I don’t know about that. I used to get offended by stuff like that quite easily. Not anymore, though. Maybe dislike was the wrong word. Ah, I don’t know. Maybe I’m wrong.
If she still has to consult her teachings, she has not touched Zen.
*mild sarcasm does not show in print
So she has a different bible. Big whoop.
Dude, your boss is an ass. Also, this has to be the first time I’ve ever heard of a Buddhist evangelist. And frankly, she sounds just as dumb as any fundiegelical I’ve ever come across.
“buddho-evangelize”
Hahahaha that made me laugh.
That gets my vote for Word Of The Day.
No, I get what you’re saying. The parting shot would turn me off; if I had a glimmer of an inkling to re-examine my beliefs because of someone’s rant (it can happen, once in a while) it would be annoying to be told at the end, essentially, don’t bother, I’m a lost cause.
I guess it’s the difference between a person who argues because they wish to convince and a person who argues merely to win the engagement.
I hate situations like this because I always come up with the perfect line 10 minutes too late, when I’ve already walked out the door.
It’s called l’esprit d’escalier, literally ‘the wit of the staircase’. It’s when you think of the best comeback after you’ve walked away.
Strangely enough, I just came across the term a couple of days ago, I think in the Cory Doctorow novel Little Brother. Reinforcement may help me to remember it, so at least I can toss that in the ring when I can’t think of anything else!
I call it George Costanza wit!
Bloody hell…the whole point of following the teachings of Buddha is to be able to think for yourself, and especially not prosetylize.
Rats – I meant proselytize -
Jerk Store!
No, there is no ‘possibility’ about it. The theist knows there’s an ‘invisible aspect’ and nothing can convince him otherwise.
This is why you’re wrong about both people having their minds made up already. The agnostic/skeptic doesn’t have their mind made up about anything except not having their mind made up already. Their business is to question those who do have preconceived notions.
How many times do we have to say this, skepticism is not a preconception in the way theism, or supernaturalism, is. We have no dogma.
Oh really? Firstly, I disagree that they were merely hurling insults, I think it was a genuine clash of ideologies, but even if that were so, what are we to do if someone is genuinely wrong? If someone comes into your home and tells you that the moon is made of fairy poo, and that you should clap your hands three times before eating a sandwich, would you just keep quiet? No! You’d challenge them the same as I would.
We are equally committed to stamping out stupidity when we see it. It’s just we skeptics set our sights on theism, so theists want to ‘play fair,’ and ‘respect other beliefs.’ No. There is no reason to handle their irrationality with kid gloves, especially when it is being spouted at a dinner party in your home.
“The atheist has rejected the possibility of the supernatural. His mind is made up. The theist accepts the possibility of a supernatural.”
Ummmmm… no. You have that backwards.
I think you need to take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
You got some pretty common misconceptions about skepticism.
No, I have rejected the possibility of the imaginary. Until you can prove otherwise, the supernatural falls neatly into that category.
.
Imaginary. Swap out invisible for imaginary and I will agree with you.
I don’t understand why you would say that.
Reductio ad hitlerum, ready? Imagine one of your friends was a Nazi. Would you be concerned about ‘hardening their position’ or hurting their feelings if they came over and started going on about how Jews are evil. Would you say to yourself, “I should either keep my beliefs to myself, lest my opponent entrench himself further, or I should take care to address his beliefs over time, with sensitivity. That way, I have a better chance of converting him.” I would hope you would call that person out for being an idiot, tell them why they are wrong.
Now, I’m not saying you’re and idiot, and I’m not saying your beliefs equate to Naziism, but you have to admit the analogy. If something big is at stake, you shouldn’t be obliged to hold your tongue.
Religion is ‘something big at stake.’ Therefore I shall not hold my tongue.
I think you are doing the same thing most theist do. You think that an atheist will have the same type of mindset as a theist in their view of the supernatural. There is only one thing I really don’t think is possible and that is time travel. Everything else is possible but until there is evidence of it, I don’t see it as the truth. Yes it is possible that there is a god but all evidence points to the fact that there isn’t.
Ha!!! ;)
translation: the theist has rejected the possibility of the lack of the supernatural; the atheist accepts the possibility of the lack of the supernatural
Thanks! ;)
Forward time travel is possible. You’re doing it right now, one second at a time.
Those are great.
J. Walter Weatherman, huh?
You here to teach us one of your “lessons”?
You can even change the rate at which you travel forward through time, according to the Theory of Relativity.