This is a favorite tactic of believers who email me to convince me I’m wrong:
100. ARGUMENT FROM PRAYER
(1) God exists.
(2) [Atheist makes counterarguments.]
(3) You have my prayers.
(source)
The Argument From Prayer
April 15, 2009 By 81 Comments
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And they have my thoughts. Pity they never use them.
Technically atheists should “have my prayers” whether they make counterarguments or not. Prayer shouldn’t be used as a “no comment cuz I have no idea what to say back” kind of thing.
If you know I don’t believe in your god, then it follows that telling me you talk to your invisible man about me can’t possibly be seen as a positive development. At best, it’s delusional. At worst, it’s conspiratorial, or gossipy. But in either case, telling me about it is approximately equivalent to saying “fuck you”.
I’ve had a couple people at work do this to me. I never took it as an attempt at conversion, just their way of saying, “we’ll there’s no way you’re changing my mind, and this book here says that I should love you anyways, even if I think you’re an asshat whose going to a way bad place”
I used to argue points with them, but anymore I just realize its engrained into their brain. I think becomming a skeptic is something you usually come into of your own free will and thought. You begin to question and look for answers outside what has been offered via mysticism, but some people never get to the point of doubt like we do.
I hate it when they say they’ll pray for me. It sounds so condescending. To me, I’ll pray for you means, “Listen, you are so hopelessly lost, that only the mighty power of God can possibly deal with a lost sinner such as you.”
No wonder I am so NOT interested in debating Christians. It’s like trying to reach agreement with a person of another planet who doesn’t speak my language.
“I’m praying for you” is basically a polite threat when you consider how happy some of these people are that I’ll be burning in hell.
I like to quote the bible verse about praying in private at them.
I like using the Dennet approach: “Thank you; but I would really appreciate if you would sacrifice a goat instead”.
i respond by telling the person that i will be think of them while bathing in the blood of a virgin. then they usually run away.
Don’t forget to include the admonition that all you have to do to fix your atheism is to “earnestly” pray to let Jesus into your heart. That usually just precedes the
f you“I’ll pray for you”.I like the respones from the “Guide to Christians Cliches and Phrases”
-”I’ll pray for you”
-”I’ll think for you”
I think that this mode of x-ian arguing is almost as annoying as the “conversion introduction” where they compliment you and then launch into their dialog. In college I once had a girl come up to me in a parking garage and tell me I had a pretty smile, and then immediately ask me if I “had Jesus in my heart.” About a week or two later I saw her on campus and she came up and did the SAME THING. …sigh…
I don’t think it is the phrase so much as it is the lack if sincerity in any of their niceties.
I just think it’s a pretty impolite thing to say. If I have a discussion where I disagree with someone and no conclusion is reached, I don’t end by saying “Well, I’m right, and I hope you change your mind.” That’s what “I’ll pray for you” sounds like to me. You’re perfectly welcome to think it, it’s still not polite to say it out loud. In any debate, it’s best to try avoiding turning it into and argument, and condescending to your opponent only gets their hackles up.
I realise that not all Christians intend it that way. For some, it probably is a positive, caring statement; but to non-christians of all belief systems it comes across as very condescending. A little tact never goes amiss.
Well, you all have my prayers anyway.
And no, I don’t consider that an insult
And no, I don’t use that as a way to avoid giving arguments.
I know I’m getting myself in hot water now, but I can’t help it.
All of you that have posted some variation of “They lost an argument, so they condescendingly ended with ‘I’ll pray for you’, meaning ‘F*ck off’” are merely delivering anecdotal evidence. If you are convinced you are right, and maybe even are accustomed with the scientific method in social sciences, i.e. field testing, then please, For Teh Love Of God, go out and write a survey on the issue, according to scientific standards. Until then, there’s no difference between:
Theist: I totally felt the presence of my God that moment.
Atheist: That’s bollocks.
and
Atheist: I’ll pray for you means f*ck off.
Theist: No, it does not.
That does not mean that “I’ll pray for you” was never intended to mean “F*ck off”, but I doubt it does as a general rule, and maybe not even most of the time.
[If only I could get the capital to do that study myself, I so would be off right now annoying the hell out of religious people just to see if it is true.]
Prayer?
OK dear you go into the corner and pray… I’ll go do something about it.
It’s your time.
These arguments are really funny. Thanks for posting this link. I liked argument #12:
12.ARGUMENT FROM FEAR
(1) If there is no God then we’re all going to not exist after we die.
(2) I’m afraid of that.
(3) Therefore, God exists.
“I though humans can use -maybe not conciously- fuzzy logic, and I’m not so sure that could be modelled by a turing machine.”
Sure it can. I’ve written numerous computer programs that use fuzzy logic.
So what we’re saying is that sometimes “I’ll pray for you” probably means “fuck you” and sometimes it doesn’t. Sounds about right.
Personally, it tends to annoy me more because it’s just plain rude than for any other reason. It’s a bit like swearing in front of someone you don’t know well. We’re generally reluctant to do this, but why? I guess it’s breaking some kind of implied social contract: in doing so without warning, we’re stamping our authority on the situation. We’re saying “*I’ll* decide (some of) the boundaries of this relationship.”
Saying you’ll pray for someone seems similar, whether it is meant in a spiteful way or not. It has just as much potential to offend and – ultimately – doesn’t need to be said.
It doesn’t actually offend me (neither does people randomly swearing) but it makes me question the motives of the person saying it.
Mr. Deity Episode 4: Mr. Deity and the Messages
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaZDcS-rMf4
That is the Argumentum ad Precem!
“But in either case, telling me about it is approximately equivalent to saying “fuck you”.”
Maybe that’s one of the reasons why the Bible says to say your prayers in secret.
But honestly, if you did believe in God, and you believed that prayer worked, from your point of view, praying for someone earneslty is seen as a “positive development”. It’s the exact opposite of saying “f*** you.”
“At worst, it’s conspiratorial, or gossipy.”
What????? Do you think people that pray for you are conspiring against you and planning blackmail with gossip?????
Around here, it seems it is usually replacement for saying “F *** you” They have run out of arguments, so they leave saying, “I’ll be praying for you!” Which most likely they won’t, they’re just saying, “I’m better than you, stupid atheists!”
“But honestly, if you did believe in God, and you believed that prayer worked, from your point of view, praying for someone earneslty is seen as a positive development. It’s the exact opposite of saying f*** you.”
Doing it? No. But telling me about it? Yes.
“What????? Do you think people that pray for you are conspiring against you and planning blackmail with gossip?????”
Wow. You’re obviously some religious nutbag, because no logic-minded person would make the insane logical leap to “blackmail”. Let me slow this down for you in easy-to-understand words… Talking about someone behind their back is called gossip. Plotting behind someone’s back with the intent of affecting their life in some way is called conspiring. Whether or not your god is real, if you are talking about me to him when I’m not around I’m going to take offense to that. Understand?
Hi, Niva,
“But honestly, if you did believe in God, and you believed that prayer worked, from your point of view, praying for someone earneslty is seen as a “positive development”. It’s the exact opposite of saying “f*** you.”
You would think so, huh? I’ve found that not the case, though, also. My husband and I had to deal with a really nasty hateful relative for a while, and when we would get in arguments, try to set boundaries, or did anything she didn’t like, her hurtful comments always ended with, “I’ll pray for you.” I wanted to say, “Don’t bother!” It really was a tone of nastiness and superiority, and she implied that we obviously needed all the help we could get. (Plus, I could imagine her prayers for us – “Dear God, please let those **** get run over by a truck.”) That’s not the only person with whom I’ve run into that.
I know a few examples does not mean anything, but when people draw attention to their Christianity and bring up in conversations how Christian they are and then act like that, it certainly leaves a memerable impression about Christianity.
The times that it seems sincere is when we’ve had some tragedy in the family, and someone says, “You are in my prayers.” That is appreciated and I am glad for their well-wishes.
When I was a Christian, I often noticed that “prayer requests” were used as an excuse for believers to gossip with each other under the guise of doing something holy. Things like, “I just would love to lift Mr. X before the Lord in prayer; he’s been really struggling with his pornography addiction, ” or, “Can I just say that (teenager X) has really been on my heart lately? I just pray that she finds her worth in the eyes of Jesus rather than in the eyes of young men, if you know what I mean.”
Saying you want to pray for so-and-so seems to be the Christian equivalent of, “Oh my GOD! Did you hear!?!”
You might have to repeat that in all caps… Jk. But I’ve never had anyone tell me I’m a religious nutbag
or even imply it, so maybe you misunderstood.
But that’s what it sounded like. Gossip+ conpiring= blackmail (usually).
But if you get offended when someone says they’re praying for you, and you get offended when they do it when you’re not around, what do you expect them to do? Invite you over for a prayer session on Friday night? But wait, if they did that, you’d get offended because they’re saying “f*** you”.
I don’t see why you’d worry about it being gossipy if you think they pray to a non-existent God anyways… There’s no one to gossip to. Same thing for “conspiring”. It wouldn’t work anyways.
Sorry, I’m ranting now. I’ll stop.
Randy -
“Wow. You’re obviously some religious nutbag, because no logic-minded person would make the insane logical leap to “blackmail”. Let me slow this down for you in easy-to-understand words…:”
Yoo-hoo – YOU are the one who said “At worst, it’s conspiratorial, or gossipy.” She was trying to get your point. Niva has been very polite and thoughtful in her remarks for someone in foreign territory. Read her posts – you don’t need to react like she’s attacked you. You need to chill.
I have noticed this for a long time as well, or when you get through all of the silly arguments they make they end up saying well even if god showed you proof you still wouldn’t believe.
One would think if christians really had god on their side he would inspire them to make stronger and better arguments in favor of what they believe.
Daniel have you ever wondered why if christians are so right and they have the ultimate sky daddy backing them up, why then are they always running from us little old heathen atheist.
Why is it christians who have the almighty on their side who are always leaving the intellectual battlefield. Funny how their religious beliefs can be so right but they are always running from debate.
Also Daniel does word press have a comment numbering function, that way we wont have to go through lots of comments to find the poster you would like to dialogue with.
Not trying to be a jackass I just think that can make it a little easier to get after these holy rollers.
Hey, Daniel, be rational.
Maybe they’re really going to pray for you to go back being a believer.
If they say they’re going to pray for you, just believe them.
Who knows?
In any case, it will make you live with less anger.
Did they lie to you and won’t pray?
Definitely not your problem.
Are they being false and hypocrites?
Again, their problem, not yours.
Does it make you feel contemptuous and self-righteous?
This makes you feel more angry and less happy.
IMHO, happy people are usually more effective than angry ones.
What I certainly DO NOT need is some self-important person telling me what I “need” to do.
Get off your high horse.
I find it terribly ironic that regardless of which side people are on — whether religious or atheist — they all think they have the right to tell other people what to do.
Well you know what? I’ll pray for you.
Dude, slow your roll. There are plenty of thick skulled godbots you can vent your Internet vitriol on. I disagree with Niva–about a great many things–but Niva has always been polite and isn’t worthy of your shotgunning.
I’ve thought of something else to say for a while, but I ended up with:
I second Roger!
I had that experience just recently. Upon explaining that I couldn’t possibly ever “get right with god” because I now require evidence for my beliefs, the theist to whom I was talking explained to me that I would have to suspend rational thought in order to “get it.” I believe there is a disconnect between the mind of the atheist and the mind of the theist that can never be bridged with any amount of exchange of ideas. Even when I considered myself a christian, I was always skeptical of the concept of the supernatural. But for the “True Believer,” the existence of god and supernatural world is a foregone conclusion. It is this gap of logic that no amount of exchange of ideas can bridge.
I often want to say, “Look, if you’re gonna pray for me, pray that I get stranded on a desert island with a bevy of hot men.”
But I don’t have the guts to say that, plus I’d probably screw it up somehow and it wouldn’t be as funny/piercing as it sounds in my head.
I sometimes say “In that case, pray I win the lottery. When God answers your prayer I’ll donate half to you, and you can pass it on to your church.”
Heh…if God is on their side, you’d think he’d show up and run a little defense for ‘em. Dude’s about as useful as the Detroit Lions offensive line.
And here I thought you’d say “iron chariots”, Roger.
It doesn’t now, but I’ll see what I can do for when I move to self-hosted wordpress, which should be in the next couple weeks.
Why is it that “believers” who post on here always trot out the “Ooooh, you’re sooo angry!” argument? I swear, is that a macro on godbots’ computers?
And way to completly miss the point of the post–as well as many of the comments here about the thinly veiled superiority complex of the “I’ll pray for you” nonsense.
@Roger: Hey buddy.
Let’s make things clear.
I study biology for passion since I remember being able to read and have a degree in physics.
I can out-rationalise your ass before you say “amen”.
Being an atheist doesn’t mean not searching for happiness nor bashing everyone that does not agree with you.
I find totally sterile agreeing always with everyone, and I find contempt and self-righteousness VERY bad, be they in theist or not.
I wholly agree with the post, no point in addressing that.
But just as they feel superior, why should I?
Thanks for putting me in a small box.
You’re very welcome.
Scientific experiment.
Next time someone yells an angry “I’ll pray for you” just shine your best, genuine and friendly smile and tell them “Thanks! =)”, like they were _really_ going to do you the biggest favor in the world.
Expected outcome: you’ll laugh your ass off, you will feel better.
Falsification: it makes you feel more angry and bitter.
Sometimes being utterly naive pays. =)
I’m sorry for your bad experience with people that pray. I’ve seen plenty of the self-righteous attitudes myself. I actually had that attitude myself for a short period of time (a few months) until my ex boyfriend slapped me back into reality. I didn’t even realize I was acting that way. It was one of the most terrible realizations I had ever had in my life. And it ruined one of the best relationships i ever had. I learned my lesson very well.
It’s hard for a lot of hypocritical/ self-righteous people to realize what they’re doing. And if they do realize it, and keep doing it, they’re just idiots.
Dare I say the terrible cliche that everyone is expecting? We all make mistakes, but purely hateful people aren’t “real” Christians.
Oh no! I said it! Hope noone got a headache from reading that one again. :)
Exactly.
And I agree with Randy. “I’ll pray for you” — there is no way that doesn’t say, or scream, “I’M judging and deciding that YOU need help/intervention”. (According to their beliefs, of course!)
I mean, in addition to puling and cowing out of an argument for having nothing of value and reason to say. It’s a trick and device, a kind of insult or name-calling.
Oh come on, not absolutely everyone who says “I’ll pray for you” is like that. Most of the time when I pray for people, I don’t even know exactly what’s wrong. I just know they need help. And in my belief, prayer works. And when people do tell someone else what’s wrong, it’s just sick if that someone else goes telling or giving hints to other people.
Ask them what happens if you suspend rational thought in order to “get it” and end up Muslim.
That works with just about any angry remark, actually.
@Nivia Tuvia:
Indeed! =)
Why should we make exception for the fundies?
Francesco, I think I understand where you’re coming from with this remark better than the ones above, with the “you sound so angry, you should try to be happy instead”. I agree being happy is better in general to being angry, but on the other hand–sometimes anger is necessary. Even more important to this context, being told to “stop being angry” sounds a lot like “just shut up already”–it’s a silencing tactic.
@aproustian: “don’t react badly to other’s stupidity” is not exactly “stop being angry”.
Not giving your opponent power over you it is a matter of integrity.
It’s people who feel their identity threatened that get this kind of malicious anger.
Atheism can be morally superior to religion, and lead to happier life, so why stop at their puny level?
Unfortunately these ideas are associated with “alternative reality” nuts, and skeptics (understandably) shun over them.
I think it’s worth to unwrap them of all the supernatural crap, see what works and what does not, and show the world for good that you don’t need religion or ad-hoc beliefs to reach spiritual happiness, compassion, moral life.
This would be a lot more powerful than anything you can write to convince them.
I do agree it’s not easy.
Hi, Niva,
I really respect your inquiry into issues that I’m sure really mean a lot to you.
Here’s the thing (for me) about the “They must not really be Christians” thing -
It’s like moving the goalposts so your team can keep scoring. People who say they are Christians and take actions that are consistent with that (church, praying, etc) sometimes do bad things, and sometimes keep doing them even when they know they are bad. One claim of religions is that God is necessary for morality. So instead of dealing with that Christians can be evil and faith does not guarantee morality, they keep throwing out those data points. “See, if we exclude the Christians who are bad – see, Christians are good!”
The opposite is true too. I am an athiest and I am a good person. I had someone argue vehemently with me once that I was not really an athiest. I must believe in God and follow the Bible even if I don’t think I do, because otherwise I would not be a good and moral person.
Niva, it doesn’t seem like you think this, but one assumption seems to be
Christian = good
Not Christian = bad
So if you are a bad person, you are not a Christian no matter what you think, and if you are good, you must have some kind of god. It’s taking the evidence and twisting it to fit the theory.
The evidence is really more like Some Christians are good and some are bad, and some non-Christians are good and some are bad. And there really doesn’t seem to be much correlation between being Christian and automatically being good.
Wow – I hope that made some sense. It was a lot harder to articulate my thoughts on that than I thought it would be.
@MaryLynne
Lol. Don’t worry, you articulated your thoughts well.
“It’s like moving the goalposts so your team can keep scoring. People who say they are Christians and take actions that are consistent with that (church, praying, etc) sometimes do bad things, and sometimes keep doing them even when they know they are bad.”
The goal stays in the same place, people just keep missing.
I never said that everyone who isn’t a Christian is a bad person. And I definetely don’t think that. But the thing is, if a person claims to be a Christians, yet hates others, they are going against the foundation of Biblical Christianity.
I mean, I have no place to tell someone “You’re a bad person; therefore, you are not a Christian.” or “You are not a Christian; therefore, you are a bad person.”
“And there really doesn’t seem to be much correlation between being Christian and automatically being good.”
Definetely not. I’ve done plenty of bad things. But it’s not my lifestyle; I don’t repeat my mistakes. I’m talking about people who do it over and over and claim that it’s right.
But I say that awful cliche because hate is the opposite of what Christianity should be. I mean, there are plenty of people who claim Christianity yet exemplify hatred. What does that say? People have twisted Christianity into what they want it to be, which isn’t Christianity at all. And I’m sure you know that. I’m just letting you know that I do.
I’ve got a few things to say on this one:
1) One of my closest friends is, well, not exactly an evangelical, but certainly hard core xtian compared to “standard religious people” where I live. Still, when she says “I’ll pray for you/your family,” I know it’s far from condescending. It is her way of admitting “I have done all that I can, but I’ll try some more, because I value you”. So generalizations like
are, like most generalizations, sometimes wrong, and they can be insulting.
2) I am really glad Niva found us. She is (I am not lying) the first xtian on an atheist blog that could think coherent thoughts, write them down in a comprehensible way, and did not go ballistic if someone was a bit more aggressive than what might have been appropriate. We are here for a discussion, not for something like this:
Atheist A: Ya know, God doesn’t exist.
Atheist B: Yeah, you’re right.
Atheist C: I absolutely agree.
I surely think that any obvious troll/wingnut should get their deserved mockery. But blindly attacking anyone who holds religious beliefs is only fueling the fire of fundies who claim that atheists are angry.
3) On a more personal and/or general note, I have noticed over and over again that while on the net, some people tend to behave like they were chatting with a Turing machine, but not with an actual living, breathing, thinking, feeling human being. The result is often (from my experience) that people tend to be more agressive, less self-possessed, and less aware of the fact that there is a real world in which people have to chew on what you just said to them. Please take that into consideration as well. You may now start flaming me for what I just said.
I have noticed over and over again that while on the net, some people tend to behave like they were chatting with a Turing machine, but not with an actual living, breathing, thinking, feeling human being.
But, but, but…the human brain *is* a Turing Machine! :) (Well, I suppose it could be a series of several linear-bounded automatons in parallel, but still, same diff).
@devysciple
Well, now I know what a turing machine is. Lol. Don’t worry, no flames for you. I agree. And I do realize that even baby eating, pink spandex clad atheists aren’t machines… I hope you read the comments I got that from, cuz if you don’t, then it’s not very funny.
@Elemenope:
Are you sure?! Can you prove it? Almost every day I talk to people (i.e. put them to the Turing test), and they make less sense than the error messages I get from my computer. So, who’s the Turing machine now?! :D
@Niva Tuvia:
I’m glad you learned something. As I like to say, every day in which I did learn something new is not a wasted day.
And I read the comments, so lolz to your “baby eating, pink spandex clad atheists”
But I have to object that we actually are machines. Or as some chemistry Nobel Prize winner once said: “Humans are the most complex machines to turn expensive red wine into urine” ;-)
I though humans can use -maybe not conciously- fuzzy logic, and I’m not so sure that could be modelled by a turing machine. But of course, maybe some turing machine working in parallel would have the same effect. What about a logic based on more values than merely 0 and 1? Could it be explained as a turing machine?
Turing machines and fuzzy logic are not mutually exclusive
Besides, it helps if you just think of a (universal) Turing machine as a black box that can just pass the turing test. It’s not an exact definition, it’s actually quite wrong, but for keeping this conversation within the limits of comprehension, I guess it is acceptable. ;)
“Besides, it helps if you just think of a (universal) Turing machine as a black box that can just pass the turing test”
No it doesn’t. This isn’t just “quite wrong”, it is complete nonsense.
latsot,
thanks for your criticism. I really enjoyed it. I would have even more enjoyed it if you had provided a working simplification that helps people understand what we are talking about.
Turing machines are not exactly within my field of expertise, so if you could please enlighten us all…
Something similar happened to me a few weeks ago. I was sitting outside having lunch when a girl complimented me on my shirt, then invited me to a meeting of our local “campus crusade for christ.’ I thanked her for the compliment and explained that I’m a former christian. BIG MISTAKE #1. Needless to say, she launched into this soliloquy about how beautiful jesus is and how he still loves me. I asked how a dead guy could love me. BIG MISTAKE #2. She went savage and said that I had “lost my way” and am “doomed to hell” unless I return to the fold. I recognized her from a kegger that happened over christmas and called her out on it. BIG MISTAKE #3. Turns out, christians don’t like it when you call them out on shit like that.
I can’t stand it when people do the whole hit and run witnessing thing. It doesn’t do anything but agitate people. The whole point of witnessing is because you care about other people. But if a person can’t even remember who they’ve witnessed to… That’s just plain pathetic, and they obviously don’t care that much.
Lol.
On that note, do you think it would be immoral for Christians to pray for you to get something their own faith claims is immoral?
Like, if I wanted dress in multicolored linen and eat a shrimp cocktail while Shia LaBoeuf gives me a handjob? Because that is my fantasy.
Do you think they would pray for me to get that?
I know I wouldn’t… What’s that new movie LeBoeuf is in? He doesn’t look right like a man. I’m used to him being a scruffy little kid. The beard just doesn’t suit him.
It is often said in the context of something for which nothing can be done. Such as:
“I’m so sorry to hear about the death of your daughter. I’ll pray for you.”
————
It seems the objection here is when people say it to cap a losing argument, as a substitute for saying how they actually feel. And that is annoying as allgetout.
Let’s see … recently he’s been in that knock off of Rear Window (I forget what it’s called), Transformers, Indiana Jones, and Eagle Eye.
I’ve been keeping track, haha.
But Marley, don’t you know that she was at that kegger to witness for Jesus? How dare you condemn her for doing Jell-O shots for Jesus!
How could she remember who she’d witnessed to? After the fifth beer, I’m sure everyone looked unsaved to her.
Yes, but we neither need nor want your prayers.
I am sorry J.K.
The point is not whether you consider it an insult or not. It isn’t about you. You can still insult someone with out intending to do so. (And yes I assume that you don’t MEAN it to be an insult.)
On second thought, if “you have my prayers” really means “F*** you” (as some people argued) then I suppose the best answer would be “you have my prayers, too”
“I’d rather have your money. May I?”
I totally agree; if naturalism (I’m going out on a limb here and assuming that most of us are naturalists) means anything, then it means that we have to do the diligence to assert that something is true, even something that seems intuitively obvious. confirmation bias applies to atheists too, after all.
I second your point Devysciple.
An atheist cannot let his/her own beliefs (“fundies are hypocrites”) get in the way of interpreting facts (“Was there genuine intention in that “I’ll pray for you”?”)
There’s something bad when a discussion centers around “Let’s agree all together that we’re better than [insert over generalization]“.
Man, I may have to use that. Or, “Thanks, but I’d rather you capture one of your enemies and carve out their still beating heat upon an alter”
Context matters. If I say that my grandmother is dying, and someone says, “I’ll pray for you,” I just say “Thanks,” because I know that that offer is sincere. However, if I’ve been in a two-hour debate with someone about the existence of a vengeful sky-daddy, and that person has grown increasingly belligerent and judgmental, and then they cap it off with “I’ll pray for you, ” I read that “offer” as a Jesusy “F*ck you, you godless sodomite.”
You are absolutely right in that context matters. But your example, IMHO, still counts as anecdotal evidence which does not result in accurate generalizations.
That does neither mean that “I’ll pray for you” cannot be extremely arrogant and condescending, nor that it freaks me out every time I hear a phrase like this meant in that specific way. It just means that, until we have a working theory on the specific circumstances under which religious people tend to use “I’ll pray for you” in said manner, we have to carefully collect evidence for or against the assumption that this specific person tries to be arrogant and condescending, and then act accordingly (hehehe). If someone talks to you, he/she is responsible for what he/she says. You, however, are responsible for what you understand (and vice versa).
If we’re trying to accurately generalize the “argument from prayer,” I’d submit that we’re talking about a humorous take on counterarguments that allegedly “prove” God exists…and humor, as we know, is highly subjective.
Wait, but isn’t beer supposed to be proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy? Wouldn’t that make a kegger s fellowship exercise? My witness-er definitely wasn’t drunk. Cal Poly was a dry campus. Oh and the really funny part about the second time she tried to witness to me is that she was working at the food cart outside the art building and there was a huge line behind me. … sigh … clueless.