In other words: I can tell our kids what I believe, but you can’t!
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Uh-oh Dr. Phil,
I have a bad feeling about this. There’s a train wreck on the way.
You told her to keep praying and maybe the husband will see the light.
You kept mentioning that he was open to new data.
Her praying is not going to provide him with the data that will bring him back to the light.
And, Dr. Phil, why didn’t you tell her to open herself up to new data? You gave her hope that her husband would come to her way of thinking. What about the other way around? Why not urge her to look at some of the data that her husband has been looking at?
I get the impression that the husband really wanted to be a little stronger in his statements… and the wife probably did, too.
I agree with Hepius that it would have been nice is Dr. Phil had taken his “open to new data” statement and applied it to both husband AND wife.
“I’m secure in my eternity.”
Blessed are the humble.
Yeesh. I guess marriage is a two way street- until you hit Religion Boulevard.
Who the hell edited this thing?
It starts in the middle of a sentence, then cuts to advertising BS for about 45 seconds.
Perhaps she’ll crack open one of his books and see hwo deluded she’s been.
I cannot stand “Dr.” Phil. His “advice” was some mealy-mouthed nonsense that made the atheist husband out to be an imbecile who just needs “god” to reveal the truth to him. His “advice” was basically to the wife to keep praying for him–he essentially shut the husband out of the conversation.
Wife: “I’m secure in my eternity.”
As far as the Christian philosophy goes—the belief that one is secure in being right means very little, as evidenced by the words of the Christian visitors here. Sure, she *thinks* and *believes* that she is “following Christ” – as does every “Believer” – however, she may not be.
This is so me! All my life I was a doubter of religion, gods and superstitions. Raised as a catholic I had doubts; studying bible with jehova’s witness for 5 years (I was young, never baptized), still doubter; attending christian (Canadian type Baptist liberal church), my wife was christian (evangelical) still a doubter. I didn’t know what the term agnostic meant. A few years ago I started reading tons of atheist and theist literature and I decided to become a vocal atheist for intellectual reasons. No anger in my decision at all.
When I expressed my atheism to my wife, I did not expect such a reaction, it was hard to believe that she thought that way. She said that she couldn’t live anymore with me, she thought I was going to kill people, have a lover, do drugs , etc. She wouldn’t listen to my arguments, I was expressing very politely me reasons. She went crazy, but because of our little children she did not pursued divorce. I was never angry.
I kept things cold and let the time settle everything. I kept reading, I kept loving my family, and now more than before.
I few months ago we started having smart discussions about bible, religions and god. She has come to realized herself that the bible is immoral, horrible and could have not been inspired written by the god the christians do the marketing for. She has even read some of UF posts, that was unthinkable a few years ago. She is at the point where, “yeah, bible is bullshit, but that god does not exist, I don’t know”.
It is like everything starting falling in place. Visiting the New York Natural Museum of History as a family trip was a huge help.
And your proud of this? shame.
Why shouldn’t he be? He might be saving his wife from a life of bondage to superstition. A noble goal.
And you’re proud of your grammar? Shame.
Wow, old thread…
Dr. Phil and Oprah are conspiring in a plan to take over the world. First, they’ve begun with gaining people’s trust with their gossip inducing, soap opera like shows with catchy phrases, free gifts, charity donations, pregnant men, and sex-ed… Next they’re going to get involved in politics, take over the media entirely, and destroy the world with HORRIBLE ADVICE!!! Forget the nuclear and bio-weapons! O.o
Ok, a bit dramatic, but still…
I love how she points out that he only “reads books that affirm his beliefs”. A million bucks says that she only reads the bible (and maybe the Twilight series). Ok, I can’t think about it any more. My head will explode out of frustration.
Oh no! An atheist may have a hand in raising his own children!
The way that Dr. Phil kept repeating, “You’re very open about this.. you’re very open about this.” Makes it sound a lot like shaming tactics. You’re open about this and should feel dirty and shamed. I mean obviously it’s the Christian that should just be patient and wait for him to change again.
Grr…just grr.
I have heard that phrase “angry atheist” quite a few times and never knew what it meant until now. That guy needs to calm down.
Man that guy makes me sick.
Here’s the thing.
Dr. Phil has a career. He is very successful and very rich. I highly doubt he wants to jeopardize any of that by suggesting that religion could possibly be even the slightest bit wrong. I’m willing to bet that the majority of his audience consists of stay-at-home Christian soccer moms or Christian grandmas in nursing homes. He needs to be very careful not to offend or alienate them.
Wow. Just wow. This makes me want to go on the show with my ex husband who continues to raise our daughter with religion when he has her and give him a piece of my mind when he tells my ex to keep praying for me. Ha!
My response was a little different than the various ones posted here. At first, I thought Phil was supporting the husband, and telling the wife to be more open-minded. Phil told the wife that the husband was open-minded, but did not tell him that she was open-minded. (With good reason.)
*Then*, Phil told her, “You just never know! He might maybe change”, and told the husband no such corollary about the possibility of her changing.
That seemed to me like a biased bait-and-switch.
I agree that she probably reads only books that confirm what she already believes…… if she reads at all. It’s such a christian trait. She may not even read the bible beyond the predigested quotes or sections that other people hand her. Whereas he has obviously proved he is an open-minded seeker: he once was christian himself, and clearly it wasn’t enough to make his life full and satisfying. Clearly it failed his needs.
(Wait for it — all together now: the christians’ predigested line that a mythology and a belief system can’t fail a person; the person must have failed the mythology and its god.)
Also, before it ever started, I thought of myself, and others posting here, having gone into and back out of christianity. I never had to worry about a spouse, and that complication never got into my thoughts.
My heart goes out to the husband. I wish him well.
I didn’t hear the phrase “angry atheist” on the video, but he is so far from that that it’s a ridiculous phrase to use.
Good point, gamingguy. Got to feed the target demographic.
Phil’s advice came down to this to the wife: “Pray about it.”
From the religious perspective, this is perfect advice. Everything comes down to God’s actions, so pray to it, and it’s will-be-done.
From the non-religious perspective, this is pretty good advice, in that it equates to, “Go mumble to yourself and leave the poor guy alone.” The part where he says, “Pray out loud, even” is poor advice, as that can become annoying or distressing (the poor guy knowing that his wife cries daily because she’s convinced he’s going to be tortured for eternity by her all-loving god)
Didn’t really address what to do with the kids, which can be problematic. Again, “Have faith and pray” is great advice, because then, no matter which way the kids go (religion or reality) she must be happy – she put it in her god’s hands, and he decided to a) bring the kids on home, or b) send them off to eternal torment. Because it’s his decision to “move their hearts” or not, she is required on pain-of-eternal-torment to be happy about it.
I feel sorry for the guy. He is in a situation that will either end in a bitter divorce or he will have to lie to those he cares most about. When someone is close-minded about their views of religion they easily begin to hate anyone or thing that might disrupt that view.
I’ve always been baffled as to why Dr.Phil, a highly educated man on many subjects, could be stuck in such outdated ideas! Some day I’m going to e-mail him on this subject.
So few of us, so many of them.
We “A’s” have a lot of work to do.
“I don’t know what evidence he’s gonna find, that he can hold in his hand…”
None, woman. None at all. So perhaps, just perhaps, it’s not him who needs to think again…
Of course nobody ever asks the wife if she is open-minded – which she is obviously not. How hypocritical. It’s cool that the Atheist is open and searching but also cool that the Christian has closed her mind and is “secure” in her eternity. Rubbish.
I love how she says ‘he only reads books that affirm his own belief’ right before he mentions also reading the bible as well as atheist literature.
Considering Dr Phil’s target audience, Dr Phil handled it pretty well. I was expecting him to actually tell the bird she was correct, admonish the husband and suggest they seperate till he ‘get’s better’.
Instead, he congradulated him for being open minded, didn’t elevate her ‘rightful status’ as the Christian and told her to pray. At the end it did get a little condescending, but, hey, what do you expect? This is Dr Phil.
It’s not as good as what we want him to say (basically for Dr Phil to tell her to grow up, to treat her husbands beliefs as equal and examine her own), but I expected worse.
Hopefully, this lack of validation in her own point of view (in public) will help her examine the situation and realise that:
a) it is not wrong for her husband to have different beliefs
B) she cannot have a monopoly over her children. They are not pets, they are people. They have the right to be exposed to the world, not just her version of it.
The reason he doesn’t need to say anything to balance the whole “pray for him” thing for the guy is because he knows this girl was willing to take her fucking husband to DR. PHIL over his extreme rageoholic anger (As shown in the video), and therefore she would NEVER want to, or have to, lose her faith! He knew it was fruitless, for he knows only bastards go on that show.
Welcome to life at my house. My wife and I had this same discussion last night. I was a Christian for the first 10 years of our marriage until about a year ago when I finally woke up. She has plenty of doubt in her faith, but is too afraid to walk away from something she’s believed her entire life.
She’s concerned for “my eternity” but she understands that it’s not her job to save me. She does insist on taking our two young children to church. I’m fine with that. It’s not worth putting a wedge into my marriage. My children will be able to make up there own minds and I’ll be happy to discuss it with them.
This may totally shock people, but…. I am married to a Christian man! Yes, it’s true! (He’s a very very liberal Christian, though!)
:)
Point in fact… we are watching Religulous right now!
The wife had a perfect comment at 2:04. “I don’t know what evidence he’s going to find.” Yes, Ms. Wife, that’s the problem. You hit the nail on the head without even knowing it.
Hey, LRA, my wife and I were watching Religulous tonight as well.
Luckily, my wife and I are both atheists. She tends to publicly hide her atheism, though. She’s afraid of discrimination. For example, she recently had to spend some time at the hospital. She wrote “Presbyterian” down on the hospital forms because she was afraid of the treatment she might receive from the staff if they knew the truth.
People do seem to be missing the point here to some extent. The wife came to Dr. Phil with what she viewed as a problem. Omg my husband’s an evil atheist who’ll ruin our children!
Dr. Phil did his best to fix that problem, not so much by making him not be an atheist (A bit beyond his capabilities), or turning him into one too (A bit beyond his capabilities), but by helping her perhaps view it as not so big of a deal.
Dr. Phil also did his best to fix the husband’s problem? That problem wasn’t that his wife wasn’t open minded enough, which is what people seem to be focusing on. As far as I could tell, the guy couldn’t give a hoot what religion his wife is. The guy’s problem was that his wife thought that he was an evil atheist who’ll ruin their children. In solving the wife’s problem, even if it was by spouting nonsense that made her feel better, he also fixed the husband’s problem.
And let’s face it, as a religious person, she’s used to accepting nonsense that makes her feel better. Who knows, it might actually work?
America must be pretty backwards if you have to hide in some atheistic closet like that :-(
most people who responded heve a few bitter problems, i realy saw few things wrong with what PHIL said, he just talked exactly the opposite way that a atheiest would have,,, if u hold a grudge against him for being “CHRISTIAN” and talking in a god accentuated manner, u leave yourself open 2 be hated in the same way but in reverse, WE know we are right, they think there right,, OPPOSING RESPECT? anyone heard of that?
like 2 teams on a sporting field.
if u hate, or pick on miniscule things, you leave yourself, IF NOT ALL ATHEIESTS OPEN to the SAME detrimental SLANDER
RESPECT,RESPECT,RESPECT.
GOD+GUN=WAR,(just let them,like u want them to let us!!)
I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to make a comment. I think your response is the most sensible one posted under this video. These comments such as “So many of them, so few of us…we atheists have a lot of work to do.” They sound just like the people that knock on doors that want to “save you”. As if only they could ever really understand the world and its their job to convert everyone to their way of thinking.
This guy (husband) has got some balls! I can only imagine the extended family’s reaction and the scorn and pressure that this T.V. appearance would bring.
I hope his honesty will be an inspiration to others like him.
Yes – that was what I saw, too. Dr Phil took the husband’s side, said that reading and evidence was the key to it, and it’s an individual choice … and that goes for the kids, too. Dr Phil sugared the pill in candy-coated ‘you pray for him’ stuff that the wife needed to accept it, but his message to her was basically ‘you’re wrong, deal with it’.
Obviously I don’t know these people, but I wonder if she’s become more churchy as time goes by. As for their marriage – I know plenty of atheist/theist partners, and they work out fine: as we keep finding out in this blog, when religion conflicts with things that are actually important, any religious people who aren’t actually employed by the God industry always put aside their religion. Because to do otherwise would be insane.
“Religious” A very entertaining and education film! My favorite part is the guy’s hair catches on fire. When you see it for the first time its so unexpected.
Poor, poor guy. To want to spend your life with somebody who won’t even listen to you. Must hurt every day, knowing and possibly rejecting that you’ve made a stupid choice.
…wow.
I really don’t get what this business with ‘being open’ is. As an atheist, sure, I’m open to new information, but in the vid it seems to come across (and the husband really doesn’t help here) as if the guy is ‘still searching’, which is an entirely different thing. Maybe it’s just me, but I’m not ‘still searching’. Searching implies that there’s something to be sought after, and in terms of religion, I don’t see why it’s a matter of choosing between the alternatives instead of not choosing any. In saying that, I’m not closed to life, and if data came along that convinced me of the existence of a God, I would look into it. It certainly doesn’t mean that I’m ‘searching’ for anything. I’m just living my life – and it bugs me when religious people find a kind of comfort in saying ‘At least you’re open-minded’ because it’s misleading.
I wish the husband could have been more vocal.
Sadly I think this happens all the time, with the same and greater hostility.
Thanks for this heads up. Gave you a shout-out at my column:
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-4275-DC-Secularism-Examiner~y2009m4d20-Dr-Phil-counsels-a-Christian-woman-to-have-faith-in-dealing-with-her-atheist-husband
Cool, thanks!
I happened to be at home that day this came on. The husband seems like he is still searching and is NOT 100% atheist. He even stated that he still reads the Bible. Now why would someone that does not believe in God have anything to do with the Bible that was written by man for God? The couple agreed before having children they were Christians and would raise their children in church. If he decides for himself that he does not believe that is fine, but don’t change the plans that were all ready made.
Interestingly, Jesus thought Divorce was a horrible sin, and it says right there in the Bible “I hate divorce, says the LORD God of Israel.”
I really believe that most Christians haven’t read the Bible. It’s hard to believe so many people can be beyond stupid to the point of insane. Young American atheists actually have to closet themselves so their idiotic parents don’t go berserk and disown them. I suppose it isn’t as bad as being born in Pakistan or Israel, though.
ugh… my mother prayed, and made us kids pray, for years and years and YEARS that my father would “see the light”. Her constant fear of his (and our) going to hell was ABUSIVE and ridiculous. She was the one who needed to “see the light”. Either except your partner as “ok” and no better or worse than you are.. or get divorced.
Hi, my name is Tina. I am a 24 year old girl, who loves God:)
I just came across this now and i’m so troubled by many of the comment..well basically all of the comments. the one that bothered me the most was Brian’s. Where he says that his wife was a devout christian and now she’s not. I cannot explain how sad this makes me. I truly truly hope she comes back to God again. What is the point of life when there “isn’t ” a God. Think about that. There’s no point. Wouldn’t you rather believe there is a God and find out that there isn’t, than not to believe and and find out there is a God afterall. What a sad day that would be cuz then it’ll be too late. I hope all the above commenters read and consider this.
Wouldn’t you rather believe there is a God and find out that there isn’t, than not to believe and and find out there is a God afterall.
Of course not. If you only get one life, and after that is simply the end, then it is a terrible waste to spend time, effort, and anguish worshiping something that isn’t there and never returns your phone calls.
Wouldn’t you rather believe Allah exists and find out that he doesn’t, than not to believe and find out Allah exists after all. What a sad day that would be cuz then it’ll be too late.
The cliches! My hed r gunna ASPLODE!
I know! He’s like, a rageaholic or something!
I’m sitting with my Christian grandmother right now… She’s watching it. Lol.
I know the feeling. I just can’t seem to get enough rage-o-hol.
In general it’s probably much wiser to listen to Dr. Feel.
I wouldn’t call him highly educated.
What I don’t get is why it would lead to divorce. But apparently it has before. Just because your spouse decides to believe something different, that makes you not love them? It makes no sense.
If anything, it should make you try to show your spouse more love in trying to understand them and making sure they know you want to be with them and that you actually took your vows seriously. If you really love them, that shouldn’t change.
Unless the only reason you married them was because of their beliefs. In that case, no wonder divorce would be the result. You didn’t love your spouse him/herself in the first place. Just their beliefs.
I don’t get this. It blows my mind. Maybe it’s cuz I’ve never been married. Idk. But it peeves me. ARG!
“faith means making a virtue out of not thinking”
Religulous
rAmen!!!!!!!!!!!!
hey it sounds plausible to me.
http://www.theonion.com/content/history/may_26_1996
I’ve heard many xtians say that they’ll never marry outside of their faith.
The obvious result of their spouse becoming an atheist is divorce.