Recent Comments
- Michael: One. on Isn’t God’s Design Amazing?
- FRED YURMAN: Almost since the very beginning of human awareness, there has been an increasing effort... on Submissions
- Johan: Plenty of excuses. Unless you advocate not fighting back against agression. on John Piper and Divine Command
- Johan: The oldest version of the Adam story didn’t even include Eve, or the snake... on Why Are You Here, Jesus?
- Shawn: Sounds a bit like ‘torture until you agree with... on Let’s Hope The Mormons Are Wrong…
- Donny Pauling: Pay attention to the sign, gentlemen. The part where my name is... on Let’s Talk About …
Funny $&#!@ From 9 Laughs
I'm one of the contributors to 9 Laughs:
Subscribe by Email
Archives
Nice!
If I had money I would be purchasing this shirt rather than typing this comment! :)
No wonder dinosaurs ceased to exist.
Two flood questions.
Since it rained for 40 days and 40 nights, and then the flood was there for three (or was it six?) months… what did all the carnivores eat? Did he bring on more than 2 of every animal so that the lions could eat some?
Did he also bring two of every plant? I mean, all plant life would’ve drowned after several months underwater.
And, more importantly…
If God wanted to restart the world–like he did with the flood–then why the hell did Noah have to get 2 of every animal in the first place? Why the hell couldn’t God have just … remade them all in a day or two after the waters subsided?
God was testing Noah’s obedience, but Noah disobeyed God for he presumed the 2 dinosaurs will grow up and devoured his family since he believed the flood has destroyed everything.
After the flood because of guilt, he got himself drunk and was raped by his son, hence the birth of that hatred.
That’s the problem with attempting to explain how the Flood story could have really happened – it couldn’t, except if you resort to extraordinary amounts of divine intervention, from making the ark float, to collecting the animals, making room for them in the ark, providing for them for half a year, having the submerged plants survive, having fresh water fish survive, etc etc.
It always amuses me when creationists come up with elaborate explanations that are supposed to provide natural scientific evidence of the Flood. Why not just skip those explanations and go straight to goddidit, because that’s where it always ends up anyway when they have to tie up the loose ends. Using bullsh*t creation “science” that contradicts every other area of science just makes the whole Flood story look even more ridiculous.
The reason they don’t go directly to goddidit is that they have trouble believing that goddidit.
Oh Ken Hobbit, my banana!
There is a similar issue with the six day creation story — it wasn’t a day but thousands of years is somehow supposed to make the story more credible. The problem is that it’s still being created by a god, for which there is no evidence, whether it be six days or tens of thousands of years. I would say that for an all powerful being even six days was slacking a bit and why did he need to rest of the seventh?
Plus, if a day was in fact thousands of years, then how did the plants survive? They were created on the third “day”, while the Sun was created on the fourth, meaning the plants must have survived several millenia without photosynthesis. Furthermore, a lot of plants depend on insects and various other animals for pollination, but animals were only created on the fifth and sixth “day”.
So attempting to introduce a metaphorical definition of days in order to make Genesis look like it’s a valid natural explanation actually just demonstrates the futility of it all. The only way the days-to-millenia thing can be made to work is by adding lots of miracles. So much for Genesis being in accordance with natural science.
I believe the story is that he brought at least two of each animal, but other animals had 7 (or was it 7 pairs). No idea how the math on that would work out, but there were supposed to be more than 2 of some animals.
You’ve reminded me of one of my earliest sketpic responses to what I was taught as a child: How did the animals on the ark eat?
Was told by Christian parents: uhh… well… maybe the animals all went into some kind of hybernation.
…SO I trusted my parents, forgot about the problems in the story, and went on believing for years.
Stupid Christianity.
Isn’t it great to think for yourself now? :)
I like that other t-shirt they have too, Jesus Is A Shitty Scientist: http://www.headlineshirts.net/jesus-scientist.html
OMFSM!!! That has win written all over it!!!!!! lmao!
The earth is quite large. How did a single man, without the use of an airplane, manage to travel across the entire earth to collect all those animals?
See, you’re looking at it wrong. You’re taking it literally when in reality it’s only meant to be taken figuratively.
Except, of course, when Creatards want to point out “evidence” for the “Great Flood” (evidence which is usually actually evidence of plate tectonics, in my experience). Then it suddenly becomes literal to them. Theists have many different flavours of truth, and it’s amazing how few of them are actually… Well, true.
He faxed the offer to the animals, it was $499.99 for 40 day couples cruise or $159.99 for 3 days and 2 nights in Orlando. Jamaica wasn’t invented yet.
Oh, they came marching in, like the good Lord says, they came marching in…
Didn’t you see the movie with Steve Carrel? God made the animals come to him!
The same answer to all the other impossible things that happened in the bible: MAGIC
The penguins flew and the koalas brought some bales of eucalyptus.
The story of the ark was not written, it was passed down verbally. Passed down by storytellers for generations. It is about how God was so disappointed with man that He decided to rid the earth of that wicked species. Noah’s story is but one account of the great flood. Other peoples of the world have their own story. American native people speak of a giant canoe that was filled with living creatures. The point of grand stories of this nature is to teach the next generation that God will not be mocked and He is to be feared. Attacking Christian people who believe in forgiveness and turning the other cheek to their abusers and persecutors takes no courage. If God haters had a backbone they would openly attack Muslim beliefs.
The Bible says that the animals went on the ark in sets of two, male and female, not two each.
Other peoples of the world have their own story. American native people speak of a giant canoe that was filled with living creatures. The point of grand stories of this nature is to teach the next generation that God will not be mocked and He is to be feared.
Non sequitor much?
If God haters had a backbone they would openly attack Muslim beliefs.
“God-hater”? You can’t hate what you don’t believe exists. And Atheists do openly attack Muslim beliefs. We don’t concentrate on them here in the Western world simply because Christianity is the more present and relevant subject.
The evidence creationists have presented in support of flood geology has been evaluated, refuted and unequivocally dismissed by the scientific community, which considers such flood geology to be pseudoscience.
God will not be mocked?
How do you explain the continued existence of Edward Current?
Religion: I have no need for that hypothesis.
“If God haters had a backbone they would openly attack Muslim beliefs.”
I’d prefer to fight them here so I don’t have to fight them over there.
“If God haters had a backbone they would openly attack Muslim beliefs.”
Ignore this unreasonable provocation that is unthought of.
Also…
Egyptian, Chinese, and Mesopotamian historical records contain no mention of any such flood. And how could they still exist if all of humanity except Noah’s family drowned?
Well, Rodney, let me tell you.
According to Christians, the three main races… caucasoid, negroid, and mongoloid, come from the three sons of Noah… Shem, Ham, and Steve…
…and there is too much genetic diversity in animals for them to have spawned from a single pair a few thousand years ago. Thanks :)
Hm? Sounds more like something Mormons – rather than Christians in general – would say, I think?
Well, apart from the Steve guy, obviously :-)
That’s what I was taught at my Southern Baptist school as a child.
…and verily, Steve was a real dick. So Shem and Ham decidedethed to play a prank on Steve. Let’s just sayeth it involved a goat, some box wine and some coal.
“God-haters”
Someone seriously has a persecution complex…
and said person felt a need to “update” the bible! LOL!
http://edennow.net/tencommandments/index2.html
“Or as intimate a knowing everyday for nine months, that your own mother is going to abort you the day of your birth and throw your little body into a gas oven to burn.”
??? This is what I got from your link. That’s wrong on so many levels. How can you abort a child on the day it is born? Let alone the issues with foetal pain and cognitive function. According to the research I read on Wikipedia, a foetus would not develop the capacity for pain until such time had passed as the mother would be in danger if an abortion were carried out and a doctor would most likely not perform the procedure anyway.
Damn God for creating coding! Arrrrgh sorry guys. I *will* get the hang of it eventually.
Extremist Muslim’s are far worse than extremist Christians. Both are of course retarded but at least the Christians don’t stone anybody to death. Well not anymore at least…
You reckon? The Army of God. Because all life is sacred. No, wait a minute… oh never mind.
“But, but that’s not my kind of religion.” (sarcasm)
Holds hands up in despair.
Like Hitler was really “disappointed” with the Jews.
“The point of grand stories of this nature is to teach the next generation that God will not be mocked and He is to be feared.”
If it didn’t actually happen, it doesn’t seem like there’s all that much to be afraid of…
What does it say about a God that kills a whole world just because he feels slighted by the imperfect beings he himself created? That is a malevolent and petty God, very far from the idealized image touted by Christians. Amazing how some Christians are able to believe in these two God-images at the same time.
I’m too busy laughing at your feeble attempt at preaching and logic to make fun of Islam.
Never heard of Chinese Whispers then? Or, you know, seen a really bad rainstorm?
http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c013.html
“Noah pleaded with the people of his day to have faith in God. They would not listen and the door to the ark was closed. Now, Christ is calling unto the world to once again have faith in God. Will you answer His calling and be saved from future judgment?”
Jesus creeped back. Don’t accuse God of being a liar in your own reasoning from the Book.
If the flood was freshwater, it would have killed all the saltwater fish. If it was saltwater, it would have killed all the freshwater fish.
There is not enough water on the planet to flood the globe. All the atmospheric water on earth would compose about one inch of water worldwide. Submerging Mount Ararat in forty days would require forty feet of water per day, which is about 200,000 times more water than exists between the planet’s surface and space. Where did all the water come from, and where did it go?
There are hundreds of flaws. It can’t have happened.
Umm, rodney, don’tcha know that when goddidit, physics don’t matter, even if god interacts with the physical world? Sheesh! Read your Bible (king james only–those other versions are totally WRONG!). It’s totally and absolutely plausible. And thoroughly logical (that is, if you construe the god in the story as a petty, vindictive, sadistic son of a bitch who really could have used a celestial enema).
From the link: “And the insect species among arthropoda are usually very small.”
Doesn’t matter, because there are around one million named species of insects on the planet. Even if they are small in physical size, there is still a preposterous number of species which would contribute to an astoundingly large volume.
Oh, your website also claims that dinosaurs existed after “the flood”. So you believe that dinosaurs and humans coexisted? Evidence from virtually every scientific discipline contradicts that claim.
How old do you think the Earth is?
Here’s one piece of food for thought: CRATERS. Huge, enormous craters. Craters whose impact would have eliminated most of the life on planet Earth. If all of these supposedly impacted during human history, do you think humans would’ve survived? Do you think anyone would’ve *noticed*?
All of these claims are absurd and ridiculous. It’s no surprise you didn’t feel confident enough to say those things in a straightforward and clear manner, but rather had to link us to a website with no original commentary on your part to clarify or explain your position. Weak.
Even if dinosaurs did exist, who would all the large ones fit on that boat?
http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/typesofdinosaurs/tp/Five-Biggest-Dinosaurs.htm
(even if dinosaurs did exist at that time…)
Like this.
A modern classic.
LMAO!!!!!
Hahahahaha oh man… I can see it now: “Jurassic Park: Terror on the Ark!”
ooh ohh oh I just missed the obvious: “Jurassic Ark.”
Okay, here we go: http://i39.tinypic.com/sys3yb.jpg
Ha ha, yes this is exactly what I was talking about. The link tries to explain how Noah’s ark could have really existed, completely disregarding all the evidence contradicting it, and in the process God is invoked to take care of some of the stuff that is clearly impossible, such as collecting all the animals and magically protecting the other animals not aboard the ark.
Ironically, this attempt to explain the Flood merely emphasizes how impossible and deluded the whole thing is. When the explanations are as bad as this, why should we take anything else creationist say seriously?
From the end of TalkOrigins’ Problems with a Global Flood FAQ:
“However, the vast majority of these are capable of surviving in water and would not need to be brought aboard the ark. Noah need make no provision for the 21,000 species of fish or the 1,700 tunicates (marine chordates like sea squirts) found throughout the seas of the world, or the 600 echinoderms including star fish and sea urchins, or the 107,000 mollusks such as mussels, clams and oysters, or the 10,000 coelenterates like corals and sea anemones, jelly fish and hydroids or the 5,000 species of sponges, or the 30,000 protozoans, the microscopic single-celled creatures.”
Ummm, yeah…. except that sea creatures and fresh water creatures can’t live in the other kind of water…
So what kind of water fell from the sky?
D’oh!!! Rodney beat me to it!
It can’t be repeated too often, I think :) Such a simple and crippling problem…
And of course all those organisms that are all specially evolved to live in relatively shallow and clear water (ie shallow water corals, tidal species like tunicates and shellfish) were all fine in that miles deep water. Of course. And the species with specialised life cycles were all fine too, like the ones that only reproduce in mangroves, or fresh water.
It all makes sense now!
Unreasonable Tools
The shirt is funny I wander if it is after or before the flood. If it is before the flood I bet Noah was smart enough to bring babies. They make less of a mess, they sleep more and they be better ready to repopulate the earth again.
That was why Noah got himself drunk because of his guilt.
So we came from dirt and through incest populated the planet. Then it floods and we have to use incest to populate the planet again. Makes perfect sense.
It’s very hard for me to identify sarcasm on the internet.
I’ll just walk away now, with my splitting headache.
Creationists, christians, and all religious nuts; Im curious exactly why you reject the god of Islam? Once you can answer that question then you will have found the answer as to why I reject your “god”.
Did Noah take two of every breed of dog? or just two dogs? 2 dogs could not have bred the numerous breeds we see today. There are hundreds of breeds of dogs including muts, that must have been bred through purebreeding. I guess he had like 5000 dogs on that boat, ahahahahaha.
The only thing I see today among religious people is whenever you stump them regarding a question about their particular faith, they just make up some ridiculous answer that makes them look even more ignorant and weak. Instead of blindly believing in something why not get a mind of your own and make rational decisions. Not decisions based upon some fairy tale that you have been forcefed since you gramma had you baptized.
Look I understand death is a “scary” subject for some people, because it conjurs fears of the unknown which is perfectly natural. You have to figure it out for yourself. Everyone is different. I do believe we are here for a reason but it has nothing to do with “god” which doesnt exist in the first place unless you include the delusional minds. If you are ever scared of death just realize that if death turns out to be eternal oblivion what the hell will you care you or I will not exist. If we dont exist we dont have thoughts, feelings, headaches, or even a physical body and not even a presence we just wouldnt exist. How would that affect you, would you be saddened? no you wouldnt exist. Quit cryin and enjoy your life, if you know there is a god then I know you are an idiot and a retard incapable of thinking for himself.
Well, to be fair, most breeds of dogs, horses, cats, etc. are fairly recent, so that wouldn’t have been an issue.
Still leaves the problem of all the other billions of species…
Nice, but I don’t like the colour :-)
Actually, were dinosaurs clean or unclean? Who cares, he couldn’t fit one, let alone two or seven.
“The news has forced scholars to completely rethink the size of Noah’s Ark, which is now estimated to have been roughly the size of Massachusetts.” :-)
No, no, it was actually carried aloft by these: Quetzacoatlus
you know, as a christian, i am not sure about exactly how things went down in the old testament as in the ref. to the ark etc,etc,etc….There will be one day that i will understand it all.
what does concern me though is that prophecies from the bible are being fulfilled daily that were written thousands of years ago. they are amazing. and its not just the bible, the meyen calendar and nostrudomus and so on and so on. You dont need to be a scientist or a brain surgeon to recognize what is happening in this world today. So if i am wrong about all of this, than the worst that will happen to me is the life lessons i have learned through the bible and then i will die, be laid to rest and that’s the end, but if the bible is right and you dont believe because your focus has been on how to disprove scripture out of the old test. instead of what God intended, which is a relationship with him, than we all know what the consequences of that is…. i would rather faulter on my side.
Name ONE. Name just ONE prophecy that has indisputably, absolutely, one hundred percent come true from the bible. Not one that could kind of maybe be correct if viewed in a half light from the right angle, but a clear, unambiguous, *actual* prophecy. Because there are NONE. Ditto for Nostradamus and for all that Mayan calender bollocks. Have you been watching 2012 or something? It’s FICTION, it’s NOT REAL.
Wow, Pascall’s Wager…give us a break. We’ve heard it a billion times.
btw, think about this…… if something was to happen to you today and you ended up in the hospital on your death bed and you were fighting for your life and you knew that your time had come,,, do you think you will be arguing what really happended with the flood or will be pleading saying something like this…”God if you really are real and I am wrong, forgive me, have mercy on me and if you are really out there please please please save me….
You know i fight with the same ?’s you have (the arc,etc.etc.)and God wants us to question things like this. It’s okay. but he still loves you no matter where you are or what your doing or what youve done,,AND I MEAN, NO MATTER WHAT YOUVE DONE. NOT ONE IS GREATER THAN THE OTHER, ITS ALL SIN. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH, EVEN IF YOU DONT BELIEVE OR NOT SURE ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS ASK HIM AND HE WILL REVEAL HIMSELF TO YOU, HE DIDNT LET ME DOWN AND HE WONT YOU…..
You know the difference between you and me, Chris? I’ve actually seen somebody’s moment of death. God was not involved. So no, when it’s my turn to go I will NOT be pleading to your imaginary sky-daddy just on the offchance that he might be real. I KNOW he isn’t, and I would never waste my last thoughts of breaths on a fairy-tale.
I hate to be rude, but Chris, that is such an arrogant fuck of a thing to say. How dare you assume such things about us? You don’t know us and you don’t care. What if you’re on your deathbed, crying for God to spare you, and instead Allah comes and gives you a smack upside the head? Or Vishnu? Or Ra? I sincerely hope you didn’t realise just how offensive that comment would be.
bro, i hope you know that i am not fighting with you, i am a relatively intelligent man, just as i can tell that u are, and i am not one of these judging hypocrytical christians, but i have seen some things that make me know that it is true, just as you are sure that they arent, but we obviously feel it is worth the time to talk about it
Chris, if you’ve seen things which prove God, then by all means share. The joy of having a scientific mind is always being open to new evidence. In your own time.
*grabs popcorn*
i am sorry, i am working at the same time so forgive me for the delays, but i will do the best i can to shed some light from my point of view and again its just my point of view
is it alright for me to give you a basic summary than to quote each individual scripture, it will take some time and some doing but i can spend the time that it takes to get you exacts, but for now i will just share
just some qustns 4 u. how long has the human race been on horse back
custador, r u there?
I also am busy, and it is 10:45 at night in the UK.
No questions allowed, and definitely no scripture. Seriously. Scripture is a circular argument that convinces nobody because it relies upon itself for its own authority. It’s crap as evidence and will just get you mocked. Don’t use it to argue here.
The reason I say no questions is this: You have said that you have seen things which prove God to you. Now I am asking: What are those things? To answer that you should not need input from me, because we’re talking about things which you say happened to you.
well custador i hope you have a great day man. email me anytime….
oh sorry you are there
On and off.
okay then, wether the bible or not, i have had a near death experience recently which i personally experienced things and God, but that would not be proof to you so…. let me go by what is happening today . It has only been in the last one hundred years that human kind has gone fromhorse back to the moon and now to mars (maybe, ha ha ) its also went from taking months or weeks to send a letter to talk to someone, now we have the phone. its also been in the last 100 yrs that we have any knowledge that we want at our fingertips at anytime we want. also in the last one 100 yrs we can now travel from country to country in hours rather than months….. i will continue, just want to let you know im still here
I’ll do this a bit backwards, but here we go:
How can you equate human progress to God? What specific evidence do you have which makes you think that God is responsible for the evolution of ideas and principles? In a very real sense, God (or at least religion) is the enemy of progress – look at the catholic church’s persecution of great early scholars and scientists. The catholic church has only recently accepted evolution and man-made global warming, for goodness sake! Never mind the shed-loads of evidence that’s been around for centuries and decades respectively.
I want to address near-death experiences, because this is something of which I happen to have some knowledge. Current thinking on the cause of near death experiences is pretty straightforward: You feel euphoric because your body dumps a crap-load of endorphins into your system when you’re about to die, and you hallucinate because of hypoxia (i.e. your brain is starved of oxygen and you go whacko). I’ve seen many, many people have these types of hallucinations when they’re hypoxic, it’s not uncommon.
Are you aware that there’s a major hospital study going on into out-of-body near-death experiences right now? Resuscitation rooms, operating theatres and emergency rooms all over the world are taking part. What they’ve done is this: Put up very high shelves and placed extremely unusual, attention grabbing objects on those shelves so that they can only be seen from an elevated position. This is really true. Out of the dozens (probably hundreds by now) of people who’ve had near-death out-of-body experiences in those rooms, every single one of them said that the shelf was empty if they “saw” it at all.
This is important: You have interpreted your experience in a very specific way, but the evidence strongly suggests that you’ve interpreted it wrongly.
also if i would have told you that in yr 1909 that Isreal would become a nation again, you would have laughed me off of the face of the earth. also a wierd thing is that jewish decendents,not from the mother land have basically left there homes where they were raised ghost towns. by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands. what race would actually leave there homes and anything they have ever known to return to an overcrowded undersiege consistantly, country. we have come by all of our technology in just the last 100 yrs. now thats just for technology, how about how people have become. Less than a 100 yrs ago for the most part, a mans handshake was his word, now you cant trust anything or anyone anymore. how about children in the last 100 yrs . Children have always been in the most part respectful of there elders and wisdom. Now they are not afraid of anyone or anything. they are horibble to parents and elders and any authority what so ever. theres more. just give me some leway here
Israel came into being in 1946, I think.
As for people’s behaviour: Societies change and evolve. The prevailing zeitgeist of the time changes and moves on. Sometimes for the better – we no longer have black slavery and women are slowly winning the fight for equality around the world – and sometimes for the worse – we’re force-fed a diet of bland faux celebrities and no longer have any discernable Western culture.
In any event, I’ll say it again: Just because these things are happening, is not a reason to say “God must have done it”. That’s just the lazy solution for when you can’t be bothered to look for the real answer.
the weather,,, storms and earth quakes have become more frequent and harsher than b4.
the ozone is failing, the earths recources are failing, oh ya how about wars and violence, in the last 100 yrs . world war 1 , world war 11 and soon to be 111 . But here is the scary part… never in the earths excistance has any earthly creature had the ability to destroy the earth itself not just once but many many times over…. now there are unjust and insane governments with the capability to do that anytime
The storms and weather are down to man-made climate change (I addressed this above). Again, that’s proven to a very high standard already.
I’ll set your mind at rest about something, too: Nobody can destroy the Earth. It’s a common misconception, but I’ll correct it anyway – if you were to detonate every single nuclear warhead on the planet, every dirty bomb, every chemical or biological weapon, all at the same time, you’d take out maybe ten to fifteen percent of life on Earth, including maybe twenty percent of humanity if you knocked out all the major population centres. All that apocolyptic stuff is just not true.
okay i get it that we have gone through problems an slavery in the past but
the bible specifically states prophecy that states that when isreal has becomes a nation that, that generation shall not pass b4 the second coming of christ. and the bible doesnt say when just that happens it says that when all those things happen,,, technology, wars, human defiance, all the things i was just talking about that have happend in the last 100 yrs. we will see him…
Okay, *now* I’m going to go back on myself and ask for the verses where it says those things, please.
wait a second, if that did happen. it would change the earths atmosphere to where no human could survive along with the radiation and the spoiled waters and the emense heat. That is not from a christians point of view but scientific point of view
Seriously Chris, it wouldn’t. You’d get much shorter life-spans, but it genuinly wouldn’t wipe us out. Fortunately we’re likely to kill ourselves off with polution long before we kill off all the other life on the planet anyway.
okay, i will round up the numberous numberous references and prophecies that you ask for . but let me ask you this and be truthful please…. have you done your research on the bible and taken these prophecies tried to disprove them,
No, because I am unaware of any “prophecy” in the bible which does not require the reader to have an extremely skewed and warped interpretation of it in order to make it fit the facts. I am also unaware of any such “prophecy” which wasn’t labelled a “prophecy” until after a suitable event had occured to which it could be loosely tied. And I do mean loosely.
you said about an open scientific mind , well i hope you do and when i get you these refs, i hope that you do put them through the ringer and i hope you just dont lay on other peoples beliefs
I will give them the analysis they deserve, certainly.
not saying that you would
Chris, it’s been a pleasure chatting, but I gotta hit the sack. Please read over what I said above – Particularly about near-death experiences. Like I say, I know my onions on that one.
its also been a pleasure, its been informational and i will get those refs for you. hope you are on again so that we can chat later….
It’s almost been a year…is “chris” ever going to get those references to prove his Biblebabble?
It’s a pity that Chris never came back to this discussion. I think he/she is probably a young person (early to mid teens if I had to hazzard a guess) arguing in the fashion that young people do: Regurgitate what you’ve heard your parents say in the belief that they would never lie to you, so it must be true.
I really, really hope that the discussion we had will make Chris look for the evidence that he/she has been told about and realise that actually, it isn’t there, it doesn’t exist. I know that probably opens me up to accusations of evangelical atheism, but that’s really not it at all: I want to see young people think for themselves and make their own decisions on faith. A decision isn’t really a decision when you’ve been brainwashed to decide a particular way for your whole life by the people who you love and respect. Personally I think instilling religious faith in kids is a form of child abuse.
I agree that instilling religion in children is a kind of abuse. It’s likely not the worst kind, but I think it’s quite reprehensible to deliberately warp a child’s view of the world, and the worthiness and humanity of the people in it, not to mention the freezing fear and guilt associated with generally harmless concepts and activities. Is it correct to label some people’s fear of different things (points of view and thought patterns) as xenophobic?
Pingback: 積奇教育 » Blog Archive » 兒童道德發展(二)
Hi folks, All this’s pure imagination nothing its trust, Clear?
With grammar and punctuation like that, how could it be more clear?
Christian argument, to those who do not believe, is inherently weak. Many would say that this is due to a lack of evidence, but I do not believe that that is the whole truth. In order for an argument or any rhetoric to be effective, successful appeals to ethos, logos, and pathos must be made. The majority of audiences who reject a speaker’s belief system (or lack thereof) will also reject all of his or her appeals prior to reading or listening.
I am a firm believer in known science and in God. That said, I would be the first to concede that there is likely little scientific explanation of a great Flood. But let’s not get hasty: Most of our science is yet too limited to confirm the event’s impossibility. The ultimate goal of science is to find universal truth. Such a goal is not humanly attainable, but let’s play pretend for just a moment and say that it could be. Let’s say we have learned everything there is to know about our universe. It’s still not enough.
Science says that there are other universes that are nothing like ours. It’s very difficult to conceptualize a world without time or space, or dimensions at all. Even if we could completely master the universe in which we live and come to a Theory of Everything, we would still lack a truly all-encompassing truth.
Perhaps there is a figure or a force that transcends the complexities of our multiverse, thereby embodying such an all-encompassing truth. This is what I believe. Why do I believe it? I take it on faith. Why would someone believe otherwise? He or she takes it on faith. So let us apply this logic to the question at hand: One can take it on faith that the Flood did not happen, or he or she can believe that some supreme force with the power to manipulate the laws of our universe allowed it to be.
Yes, by all means, let’s indulge in pointless mental masturbation.
I take it on faith.
In other words, you concede that your beliefs do not stand up to scrutiny, and hold them in spite of insufficient and/or contradictory evidence. Bravo.
I concede that no beliefs (or lack thereof) can truly stand up to scrutiny. Our good science is based on careful experimentation, but it is impossible to carry out the scientific method on matters beyond our universe. Whether one believes or does not, he or she takes the stance on faith.
There’s a vast difference between observing the inherent epistemological limitations of science and what you’re doing.
If you want to insist that the Biblical Flood happened you’re doing so in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If you believe in a literal Flood, fine, but don’t claim that “science doesn’t know yet”, or “science can’t know for sure” or some such hand-waving BS. Science knows beyond any reasonable doubt, supported by mounds of physical evidence, that the Biblical Flood never happened. End of story.
…it is impossible to carry out the method on matters beyond our universe.
You probably have some incoherent definition of God as a spiritual, immaterial being (which is an oxymoron, since for something to be a “being” must occupy time and space to be meaningful to us) – but in any case, how on earth could such a being communicate with us or have any power at all over the matter in our universe? Our scientific methods are not the issue, rather it is believers who cannot (will not?) define God accurately enough for it to be properly investigated by scientific means.
Until then, why give such a being any credit? If it exists within nature, we should not fail to stumble across it. If it doesn’t, it cannot have any measurable effect on us at all. It’s almost as if gods don’t exist!
Also, I don’t think you read my first comment to you: faith means taking a stance on something IN SPITE OF contradictory or insufficient evidence. There is more than sufficient evidence against a global flood, which any cursory internet search will yield. So it is a matter of accepting intellectually that this flood never took place and your beliefs are idiotic… not faithfully maintaining that it didn’t happen and your beliefs are idiotic. See the difference? I doubt it.
The whole story has nothing to do with a literal flood but rather a cleansing, a washing away of one (lower) condition and the ushering in of another, higher reality, or state of being, is a foreshadowing of Christ’s work on the cross.
Noah’s name means rest. He builds an ark which is a type of Christ. He pitches it inside and out. The word pitch means to cover or to make an atonement. Eight souls enter the ark. The number eight means new beginnings or a new creation. (if anyone is ‘in’ Christ he/she is a new creation, old things are passed/washed away 2 Cor 5:17). After the new creation is taken into the ark (believers are ‘in’ Christ) God simply washes away the old creation and ushers in a whole new, spiritual dimension (assuming we don’t get sucked into all the churchy, religious mess that JC warned us about and stay free, guard our liberty in Christ).
As the waters recede the ark rests upon a mountain in Ararat. Ararat means the curse is reversed. Out from the wounded side of Christ (remember the spear) the door on the side of the ark, emerges eight souls, a God-man species, a spiritual man in formation who, if he will allow God to ‘finish’ him will be restored back to the original, pre-fall condition of man in glory, as he was originally intentioned, made in His very image and likeness.
The number 8 referenced in the story is symbolic, is meaningful. Consider that David (who is a type of Christ, King of ‘Israel’) was the beginning of a new order. He was the eighth son of Jesse, eight being the number of new beginnings. In music the eighth note is the first note of a new (and higher) octave. It is also the first note of the next scale of seven tones, hence Alpha & Omega, He is the first & last, the beginning & the end.
There is so much to this beautiful story if we will ‘hear’ it inwardly. But, if we bind ourselves to the severe limitions of reason alone (which has its place, the two do not compete, are wholly distinct) we will never enter into the beauty of the offer, a whole new (kind & quality of) Life itself where the old is washed…away.
Congratulation John, you really took it to a whole new level with this one. Do you have any support for this interpretation that is not the voices in your head?
I give your post 8 out of 10 stars for interpretive creativity.
I have faith that you are a nutcase, John! I feel the spirit inside me, and I cannot doubt what it is telling me! …….bet you don’t believe me.
Yes, the truth is just too good…to be true! Think fairy tales runty, think love.
That said, I would be the first to concede that there is likely little scientific explanation of a great Flood. But let’s not get hasty: Most of our science is yet too limited to confirm the event’s impossibility.
That’s not true. We have ample evidence from multiple disciplines that prove that a worldwide flood did not happen. The only way you can claim lack of such proof is if in addition to the magic flood you have your god erase all evidence of said flood and forge a complete geological and biological record that completely contradict the possibility of the flood. If such a god actually existed that will make him an A-hole of the 1st degree.
“One can take it on faith that the Flood did not happen, or he or she can believe that some supreme force with the power to manipulate the laws of our universe allowed it to be.”
No, one cannot take it on faith that the flood didn’t happen– because there is physical evidence to reliably demonstrate that NO global flood EVER happened. If you think that God had to manipulate the laws of the universe for such a thing to happen then you likely also believe that God would do the same to clean up after such a flood. By hiding the evidence of a global flood, God would be acting as a deceiver.
So which point do you concede to– that a global flood never happened or that your God is a deceiver?
“I am a firm believer in known science and in God.”
The problem here is that you seem to think that science is something to believe in. I’m a physics major and I:
I do not believe in Heliocentrism
I do not believe in the Big Bang
I do not believe in abiogenesis
I do not believe in global warming
I do not believe in evolution
I do not et cetera…
What I do is accept them. I understand the underlying concepts and logic presented by these theories (another scientific pet peeve which I will make sure is not in this conversation: theory and hypothesis are NOT equivalent terms), and the evidence that I have been presented regarding them. None of this is taken “on faith.” What little faith does exist in this is when I accept a concept which I haven’t studied so thoroughly, but which I know does not contradict my understanding of the rest of science.
Also, I highly doubt you understand the term “multiverse.” I hope you don’t think it is in tandem with:
“Science says that there are other universes that are nothing like ours…”
Which is a proposition that, as far as I know, has no evidence to support it.
Forgive my misuse of the word “multiverse.” I will certainly take the fall on that.
Also, forgive me if I failed to convey my true meaning when I stated that “I am a firm believer in known science.” I was trying to explain that it goes against my grain to back my beliefs with pseudoscience that contradicts human knowledge.
I do, by the way, know the difference between a theory and a hypothesis. I can consider it a pet peeve of mine, also, when people make statements following the model “[insert scientific theory] is just a theory!”
My purpose is not to press my beliefs onto those who read my posts, but to present my way of thinking. To further clarify, my argument is not specifically for my personal religious beliefs, but that it is illogical to say that science is relevant to religion.
If there is a supreme “being” that created the universe in which we live (once again, I am not currently arguing that there is such a thing), it must be bigger than its creation. When I use the word “bigger,” I do not say that such a being would occupy a comparatively larger volume of space, but that it would transcend our laws. If a being is above our laws, science can no longer be applied to it.
In essence, my point is that science can not and should not be applied to an argument for or against religion. If there is a God, He is above science; if there is not, then, well, there’s not. This question is indeed left up to faith. If your faith is in that there is not, I will respect it.
But we aren’t just dealing with scientific claims versus religious claims. We are dealing with epistemological claims– with knowledge itself. So, yes, science and religion ARE tied together so long as followers of religion think that religion has a contribution to make to epistemology.
My point is that the bible makes certain claims that it just can’t be backed up. The bible says that the first humans were Adam and Eve. If this is an epistemological claim, then I say that it is demonstrably false because science has demonstrated that the first humans came about because of evolution. This affects soteriological claims directly because the fall of Adam and Eve sets up the necessity of a savior. If there was no Adam or Eve, original sin doesn’t exist. Since science demonstrates that there is no literal Adam and Eve, then sin doesn’t literally exist. If sin doesn’t literally exist, then there is no literal need for a savior. If there is no literal need for a savior, then it doesn’t matter what happened to Jesus 2000 years ago.
Thus, your religion is reduced to a metaphor. If that’s all that it is, then claims that it is the one, true way are false because a metaphor only reflects or interprets reality, not directly representing reality.
So, I say to religious people: you can’t have it both ways. If you are accepting of science, then your religion becomes an irrelevant metaphor that was shaped for a culture that started to die out 2000 years ago and was completely dead by the Enlightenment. If you are a biblical literalist then you believe something false as demonstrated by science. Why, then, have any belief at all???
it should say “god damn it” :D
Nature Reveals God
Psalms 19:1-4 …The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.
Furthermore,
Romans 1:18-19 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 1:20-21 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Why Would People Wanna Reject God?
2Peter 3:3-7 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Because they don’t like the idea that they have to give account of what they are doing to a Supreme God. They want to do things which He expressly forbids. No wonder then that crime has increased and immorality has become acceptable. God doesn’t cease to exist because a person doesn’t believe in Him. They “scoff” the evidence because they “do not want” to believe. The point I’m trying to make is that for some, no amount of evidence will help!
Who “Believes” that there is no God?
Psalm 53:1 …The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
A Fool believes that there is no God… And end up being lawless!
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools…
I sincerely hope that you believe in God and in Jesus Christ His only begotten Son and be saved from the coming judgment of Righteous God.
Rom 10:9-11 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
So be saved!
And finally about science… Science as it is today is ever changing and when science will have learnt everything, it will in all respects agree with the Bible – God’s Word!
Best Regards in Christ,
Roussel
The stoopid is strong in this one.
Just one thought from the post:
And God doesn’t exist because a person does believe in him.
Ah the “we’re atheists because we don’t want to be held responsible for our actions” argument. Always a classic. Tell me, Roussel, if that’s the case, then why does being an atheist make you orders of magnitude LESS likely to be a rapist, a killer, a robber, a burglar, a mugger, a fraudster, an adulterer or a prisoner than if you are a Christian?
On a final note, please leave the Biblical quotes off next time. Very few people here believe your magic book, and it doesn’t count as evidence any more than The Wizard of Oz can be used as evidence for the Yellow Brick Road.
Did we suddenly make bible verses proof of anything?
or
Just another nimwit going on and on about how Batman can beat up Superman.
If atheists really do believe God exists then we also believe we will end up being tortured in hell for publicly denying him. So why exactly would we have any interest in doing that?