First the Oklahoma representative says God is sending the economic crisis because of the gays, and now the AZ senator says the earth is only 6,000 years old:
The stoopid, it burns especially strong this week.
Only religion could keep someone believing such a ridiculous thing in the face of so much evidence.
(via)
This might be okay if she took her position by force, but she was elected. Very frightening
*Oh* my FSM.
That broad is breathtakingly, horrifyingly stupid.
Owwww! The stupid piled on stupid piled on stupid burns! Packed all into one sentence, yet.
“The earth has been here 6,000 years, long before there were any environmental laws, and we haven’t done away with it yet.”
I think it was in Pogo: “We is sure enough workin’ on it, though.”
Arizona? The state where the Colorado river has exposed over a billion years worth of geological history in the Grand Canyon?
Flooddiddit.
win.
I too am from Arizona and feel quite embarrassed by this lady’s ridiculous comment. I must also admit that I have a friend who believes that the Grand Canyon was carved by Noah’s flood! Unthinking, weak minded followers.
The Dumb is strong with this one.
I’d like to apologize to everyone. Not all of us here in Arizona voted for this lunatic. We do however have our fair share of freaking nuts in government positions, all of whom are spurred on by the Center for Arizona Policy. And if you didn’t know it, CAP is a left over from the now rather defunct, Christian Coalition.
Yes, the stupid burns, but pleas don’t think we are all like this fruit salad.
May the force be with you.
she doesn’t seem to be as bad as my state’s Great Shame: Michelle Bachmann.
she is right about one thing, we haven’t yet destroyed the Earth and it’s been billions of years, so keep on mining that uranium and dumping that toxic waste!
Hello everyone, my name is Zach, Fort Worth, Texas DEMOCRAT…
Every State has one or two of these idiots, but I have to give it to Arizona they have the Champion of them ALL in that guy who looks to have spent ALL of his schooling in the Special Ed. Program, you know who I am referring to Arizona’s 2nd District Congressman TRENT FRANKS… Now there is a prime example of religion’s duplicity. On the one hand these people are learning brotherhood on Sunday, and Wednesday night’s, and the rest of the week they are playing dirty, and then rationalize every bit of it… I scratch my head wondering where the heck O’L jesus h christ has wondered off too in this whole Sunday, Wednesday scenario with these people???
Allow me to offer up one Or two of our finest; We have a real Chump from a little town that is the oldest settlement west of the Mississippi River, by the name of Lufkin, (pronounced just the way it is spelled). This chap is a former Judge representing Texas 1st, Mr Louie Gohmert, I am terrified by the fact that a little vindictive monster like this fellow can become a Judge…
This next entry is a guy who travels through life blinder than a bat, making no sense whatsoever when answering questions, a guy who reminds me of a character from a Mel Brooks movie, the guy holding the revolver on Clevon Little as Clevon reads a list of demands, it’s a scene right around the point where Clevon Little takes himself hostage holding the gun to his OWN head telling “everyone get back, before the nigger gets it.” Anyway Huddleston looks like this guy John Abney Culberson from the Texas 7th district down in Houston. Please, be sure and check this guy out he is the real original phoney baloney… Lies, avoidance, circular arguments, obfuscation, this guy has it all… I am surprised Republicans haven’t used this guy to make training tapes off of, plus he believes all of it…
It’s no problem because the Rapture is on the way!!!
Which is why all fundies should be legally barred from ever making decisions which might affect other people. Really. I mean this. They base everything on the assumption that God’s about to turn up and scorch the whole planet anyway. That’s not a great possition to adopt as far as the survival of the species (or the planet, for that matter) is concerned.
If you believe that the destruction of the Earth is part of god’s plan, you should not be making decisions that affect anyone else.
But what if the Mayans were wrong and the rapture in in 2116?
It’s a streetlight.
Seriously, what are people in AZ smoking? I want some…
It’s a drug called religion.
I didn’t think it was possible for someone this stupid to be elected to office. Apparently I was wrong. Wow…I mean… wow. Scary wow.
yeah, as if their intelligence would be something to keep in mind while you are voting your representatives…
argh.why do I have to see this proto-brain on every site I visit today? ;)
You know, it’s kind of funny that she invokes the “the Earth is 6000 years old, and therefore clearly does not need environmental regulation” argument.
Seems to me that saying something like, “You know, considering the fact that the Earth is some billions of years old, and is still standing, it’s hard to fathom that humans could destroy it!”, while still ignorant, is nonetheless a stronger argument. You see, the longer the Earth is around, the longer it went without having environmental regulations! Clever, I know.
Makes one wonder when driving a highway in Arizona if the person in the approaching car is this lunatic. We have deluded politicians up here in Canada. Our prime minister is a fundie, and within the past few days, one of his appointees responsible for giving money grants to various groups to hold celebrations, was removed from her job because she gave some money to support a pride parade last weekend in Toronto. He, the p.m., also recently appointed a known creationist to head a science position funded by the government. And the beat…
My apologies to the people of Arizona. This wingnut is from Oklahoma. The Canuck stuff doesn’t change though.
Now I know that I must be smoking the same weed. She is from Oklahoma, but my apologies to Arizona still holds!
“Only religion could keep someone believing such a ridiculous thing in the face of so much evidence.”
Just as there are poorly informed Christians, I’m sure there are poorly informed atheists as well.
So, if I find a poorly informed atheist make a stupid comment (which I’m sure I can), does that make atheism stupid as a whole?
The answer is: no. And precisely for that reason, handpicking a bunch of errant Christians to paint a view that “religion keeps people stupid” is just a cheap tactic that puts so much bias into what you’re saying. I honestly expected more.
Find me some atheists who believes the earth is 6,000 years old. Good luck.
Sure, there are atheists who believe stupid things. But it doesn’t encourage stupidity — it encourages skepticism. Fundamentalism, however, encourages these kinds of delusional beliefs and there are millions who accept something like this just because they think an ancient book tells them so.
A belief system (called religion) that is built on the idea that people are born evil (in sin) and need saving and redeeming, and that a god built the earth 6,000 years ago, and that things (like clear evidence of gods) have to be kept hidden to test people’s faith, with a written record full of violence and contradictions that has been changed by councils even when it says not to change a jot or tittle of it, is built on lies and goes downhill from there.
It already starts out stupid. So your analogy of a stupid christian being not representative of christians to a stupid atheist being not representative of atheists, is a fallacy. It breaks down and falls apart as badly as the bible does under reasoning and scrutiny.
Atheism is not a religion or a belief set telling people how to live and how the universe works. Christianity is.
There are so many stupid christians! They get that way acting on their christian beliefs.
This is what other christians deny when they say, “b-b-but those people aren’t’ reeeeaalllll christians!” They’re doing something stupid or heinous acting on their christian beliefs.
@alastair’s muleheaded babble:
Yeah. What Daniel said.
Criminey! At least in the 1960′s when I was a little boy these idiot’s were still out in the woods with their moonshine distilleries, and pointy white hats where nobody knew if they really thought too much about them. . . To bad, they don’t still burn each other over a pit of fire.
6000 years? Only if, each of those 6000 years represents 750,000 years a piece!
There certainly are mindless atheists, but even they have found enough clues that allows them to deny the existence of a Judgmental God…
Ah “fundamentalism”. The new 21st century label that is slapped on religious people to make all Muslims look like Osama, and Christians look like a bunch of Spanish Inquisitors, or in this case, badly informed public figures. Watch out for me then, I’ll be coming to your house soon to burn your evil Dawkins books in a holy bonfire!!!
To claidheamh mor:
“A belief system (called religion) that is built on the idea that people are born evil… changed by councils even when it says not to change a jot or tittle of it, is built on lies and goes downhill from there.
It already starts out stupid.”
Uh, right. So the atheist idea that the universe suddenly big banged into place doesn’t sound a bit stupid as well? Or the fact that so many anti-creationist arguments defy Occam’s razor, one of the fundamental principles of science, in trying to rationalize how something was created out of nothing? I’ll admit – religion does have some elements of “stupidity” in it, but so does atheism. Therefore, like Christianity, atheism to me will always be another belief system. For all the advancement in science and technology, there are still gaps in knowledge you cannot prove (or prove yet,as many like to assure themselves) or substantiate, and hence in my eyes, atheism is really just another kind of faith.
The thing that scares me though, is the amount of preconceived notions you have. By saying that “it already starts out stupid”, it shows you have misgivings that are beyond intellectual, maybe even personal or emotional. It really shows that you are not completely clear-minded nor balanced in your search of the truth — even if God struck you with a miraculous sign, it would be likely you would rationalize it away as a coincidence. I feel your first premise as an atheist should be clear-mindedness, not these emotional biases.
Since when did it become an atheist idea that the universe suddenly big banged into place? Atheist means that you don’t believe in god or god(s) nothing more and it certainly doesn’t make it a faith.
“So the atheist idea that the universe suddenly big banged into place doesn’t sound a bit stupid as well?”
That’s not an atheist idea. The name of Big Bang was given by a christian -if I’m not wrong.
Moreover, as Jabster said, atheism is not a set of beliefs: is the lack of belief in a god. We can discuss about morality, reality or politics, because the only point in common is that lack of beliefs. Of course christianism has changed and diversified -evolved?- a lot, we have exemples in this web of two very different christians as usual posters; but probably you wouldn’t recognize them as “real christians”
“Or the fact that so many anti-creationist arguments defy Occam’s razor, one of the fundamental principles of science”
Anti-creationists argument don’t defy Occam’s razor. You are probably saying that because you think the teory of “God just created them” is simpler, but that teory is not testable and thus, it is not science.
“I’ll admit – religion does have some elements of “stupidity” in it, but so does atheism. Therefore, like Christianity, atheism to me will always be another belief system”
It is a belief system because it has elements of stupidity?
“For all the advancement in science and technology, there are still gaps in knowledge you cannot prove”
There are far less gaps than some years before. We are learning. We don’t use faith to fill these
gaps. Are you arguing against atheism or against science?
“The thing that scares me though, is the amount of preconceived notions you have”
They are not preconceived, as most posters were raised as christians. Some of them know your religion far better than yourself.
“even if God struck you with a miraculous sign, it would be likely you would rationalize it away as a coincidence”
It would be likely a coincidence :-)
But hey, God should know me, and he should know how to reveal to me in order I believe in him. He’s just being lazy.
“I feel your first premise as an atheist should be clear-mindedness”
Thanks!
I admire your ability not to have got bored with alastair’s OP and answer his questions. It started of with the standard Christians are persecuted, moved on to misunderstanding what atheism means and then really went down hill from there. I did enjoy the bit about Occam’s razor though. If that’s what he really thinks then I’ll have to say the claid has a point!
He does get boring (tho not as bad a brgulker’s endless wall-o’-posting debates); but he gets offensive even more.
Sometimes you just can’t let the hypocrisy go on without saying something!
To quote Dr. House:
Only because it’s simpler doesn’t mean it’s right. Thanks for playing.
Your forgot to add that Occam’s razor doesn’t actually mean that the simplest answer is the correct one.
Quite.
Actual Occam’s Razor: “entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.”
Or: “of several acceptable explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is preferable, provided that it takes all circumstances into account,” at which creationism fails. Twice (multiplying entities unnecessarily – adding a God to the equation – and not taking all circumstances into account – no evidence pointing towards creation).
No, but you do.
You’re scared alright, all the time, unceasingly, but not of my/atheists’ preconceived notions. Pot/Kettle, I’ve already listed a few of the preconceived notions you have to have to swallow christianity. Far more self-contradictory, violent, assigning worthlessness and need of saving to humans: like I said, far stupider ones than atheistic premises.
Actually false. But this isn’t about my beliefs, it’s about your stupidity. And about your failing to read and understand atheist postings. Or you might not blurt out that idiotic ASSumption.
Pot/Kettle, your premise as a christian should be one of clear-mindedness, but it never will be. Your premises as a christian shouldn’t be based on emotion, but it always will be.
Your fear of eternal punishment is the whip and lash that drives you on and makes you incapable of thinking. You can only react emotionally and say things that are more true about yourself than the ones at whom you are throwing your desperate accusations. Your belief that people are born evil (“in sin”) and therefore need saving and redeeming leaves you with no worth, so you must depend on the god of your particular mythology to “save” you and “redeem” you and give your worthless self some worth.
Then you pretend that you actually have the peace that passes all understanding, when really you wonder what’s wrong with you when you’re alone. Then you are stupid enough to come here and try to get us to “see the light”, when you yourself are acting out of emotional reaction only, not thinking clearly.
And then you believe your beliefs are not “starting out stupid”.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Now, on to the most egregious of your many failings.
You don’t have to be stupid enough to misinterpret and fail to read and understand atheist postings, but you are. Many posts on this site say that some reasonable evidence would be convincing. That’s a reasoned, thinking approach, Pot/Kettle, something you lack.
If God gave us a brain and mind, it follows we should use its thinking capacity. You are not using yours at all; you are so whipped into emotion and fear and the need to “strengthen your faith” that you are incapable of thinking, and can only react emotionally.
And nothing will ever shake your faith!
Mr. Deity <a href="http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/07/08/mr-deity-and-the-magic/" putting his hands over his ears and singing “lalalalala” reminded me of John C, but that’s before I read your desperate posts.
Grunt and strain to keep your faith strong – it’s sorta like faith constipation – and you’ll squeeze out a few dried pellets of faith, but the effort to keep it strong in the face of facts and reasoning and that still, small voice saying “how could this possibly be real” will never end.
(Unless something I couldn’t believe is true: that there are christians with so little thinking capacity they actually have no doubt. It seems that most do, and argue to defend their “faith” with frightened, life-or-death desperation.)
To Francesc,
Thanks for actually taking the time to break down the things that I have said. It was a pretty big assumption on my part to lump science and atheism into one big mass, so I apologise for that generalisation and I’ll keep that in mind for future posts.
And to claidheamh mor,
Thanks for proving my point :) You claim that I’m the one whose shaking in my little boots because I’m afraid God will send me to hell, but from your uber-lengthy response, it seems to me you’re the one whose pretty insecure about something. Anyway, I don’t want to waste your time any further so maybe I’ll see you in the afterlife, or perhaps since Christianity is a bunch of religious mambo-jambo, when we all become cosmic dust.
Not at all. It’s more like disgust at your blindness, stupid premises, faulty reasoning from those, your evasion of any answer to what I’ve said, your failure to read and understand atheists’ posts here, your Pot/Kettle/Black hypocrisy, and mostly, your dead certainty.
No, mostly your saying about atheists what is more true about you, and your failure to see that.
Now that I’ve apparently got your attention, you’ve not only evaded answering replies from me, you’ve evaded Daniel, Jabster and SIberia too. You answered Francesc, but then s/he took issue with some of your same inability to think or reason that I did; you apologized for things I also found irritating and stupid in you, but in your mind now, s/he is “good cop” and I’m “bad cop”. That gets you actually being nice to the “good cop”. But you’ve evaded answering everyone else, including me.
I don’t mean you’ve evaded replying; you’ve evaded making any sensible answer.
Typical. When your words are shown to be ridiculously wrong, run away, run away from the shame and the fear and the hypocrisy.
Typical intellectual dishonesty.
To mor:
I want to avoid arguments as much as possible not because I’m afraid to lose them, nor out of disrespect or something, but because argument in general is an endless thing. My agenda here isn’t to argue with every person that disagrees with me, but to learn what I can in order to grow my faith. I find engaging with people like you sharpens my faith — it really causes me to question what I truly believe in, whether its really something fabricated or a Truth worth believing.
Hm, since you do seem to think I’m a pretty retarded person, could you answer a question I have about atheism? Its called the problem of poor fiction. Here goes… most arguments against faith/Christianity have two premises:
1) The Marxist premise, i.e. religion is the opiate of the masses.. A bunch of lies doctored by some Illuminati-type people to make people feel better about the uncertainties in life.
2) The malevolent God premise, how in Scripture we see God do numerous atrocities like slaughter nations who defy His Name… And how He encourages us to do the same (e.g. Deut 13:3-11). How can you believe in such a horrible God like that?!!
Now if you notice here, both arguments sound pretty good on their own, except when you bring them together. The more you try and further argument 1., the less argument 2 makes sense. Assuming Christianity is just a bunch of lies fabricated by human hands, why would they want to create such a “malevolent” GOD whose sense of holiness is just… so bewildering?
Similarly, the more you try and diss God for being some evil dictator trying to rule our hearts, then where does Marx’s “opiate” view come into play? The more you try and push one, the less the other makes sense.
One possible answer is that maybe Christianity is just poor fiction. If so, why has it been on the shelves so long (and its still a pretty big bestseller)? Are people like me really so stupid?
Mmm, well you can have the malevolent God without Christ (Judaism) so I wouldn’t say Christians invented him. It’s more that he came with the package Christians created in the triune God. Christians do always go on about “out of context” though wrt all those troubling passages. So you can totally combine those two concepts when Christians consistently deny the character of the OT God.
Most arguments against faith have two premises? False. Please, get an education. If someone taught you that, or if you got it from some apologist website, then get better information and take it back to your sources and show them how and where they are wrong. You can easily correct your sources so that you are helping christian apologetics improve by removing ridiculously false claims. That can only strengthen apologetics in general, by weeding out the utter tripe.
Do you need to use those two premises to argue against belief in Odin? You see the point, but naturally you will shy away from admitting that you are an atheist with respect to Thor, Isis, Astarte, Ba’al, and every other god you can name.
Other religions have been around longer. Does that mean then are right? This is a simple point; either lasting a long time implies a belief is true, or it doesn’t. Pick a side, because right now you are in a hypocritical position where you must believe that Judaism is righter than Christianity, and Zoroastrianism righter than Christianity, and Jainism.. I could go on, but the truth will make you run away.
PS. If you study history, you will find that Christianity is based on Judaism (surprise) which in turn is based at least partly on the old Canaanite religion (Ba’al, with the baby sacrifices!) along with other beliefs of different cults that were active in the region. Archeology is your friend.
And yet, you keep on, and on, arguing. Really irrationally, too.
You’ll always have to keep propping it up, “strengthen”it, just as I said in earlier posts.
Your Marxist straw man doesn’t hold my interest, it doesn’t even make sense to me.
You don’t question. You have to keep *from* questioning, you have to keep propping up, er, strengthening your faith. It doesn’t hold up under really truthful, rational questioning.
Other mythologies probably lasted at least as long; christianity is still pretty new. *Really* poor argument ,that something dysfunctional that is popular and lasts 2000 years is somehow true.
Really, you haven’t proved otherwise.
Hinduism is many thousands of years old. Do you fear Vishnu?
Hahahahahahahaha!
rodneyAnonymous ftw!
I think alastair is proving my points (even through evasion of sensible answers) more than I could begin to prove his! (I’m sure I will prove all of his confirmation-bias prejudicial ASSumptions though. It’s so easy to prove mythology with more mythology!)
First of all, our real problem with faith is its total and complete lack of evidence.
But your 2 points go hand-in-hand wonderfully. Those in power create religion to get people to fall in line. They paint the picture of a lovey-dovey feel good super-guy who gets REALLY angry at those who oppose him. Followers won’t stray for fear of leaving that warm hug and getting smitten down AND they get a nice us-vs-them mentality out of it where their sky-daddy will slaughter their enemies in the most horrid ways possible, so they’re justified in killing or converting the unbelievers.
Yeah, it’s bad fiction, but it hits people right in the ol’ amygdala.