We’re supposed to believe God exists, but it’s always humans telling us that. If God wanted us to think he exists, wouldn’t it be pretty simple for him to convince us?
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Except it’s really not funny at all….
Yeah. Not funny, ha ha…….but funny strange.
Its really not funny, and … its true.
Yeah. But its funny when it comes to uncomfortable topics, like God ordained genocide, then suddenly the Bible doesn’t mean what it says. We Christians can have it both ways.
On second thought, it does mean what it says to most Christians. The genocide is justified through apologetics because, you know, they were all evil people.
That totally makes genocide okay.
Well I understand anyway, god the perfect all knowing one, needs the praise of it’s silly/violent/stupid creations. Poor icon must have low self-esteem :’(
We always blame God, but surely it’s man.
God may or not exist, but if you believe the Bible (then the question would be which bible? the original, which cannot be transcribed or the one that has developed in the name of politics) then you would be confused all the time, confused as to why, for instance Christians claim that God doesn’t want abortions, yet Abortions and other child killing is predominant in it.
I used to be a Christian, but through careful study of the Bible, and the historical, and mostly political, changes the Bible has gone through I learned it was a book based on an olde worlde version of the most perverse of television – Fox News.
i agree with you completely,but how are we supposed to learn about god then when all we have are books that have been re translated over and over….
The Bible has been translated directly from Hebrew. It’s incredibly accurate.
he is right go look it up
Which version? The King James Version? The New International Version? The Codex Sinaiticus? That last, by the way, being a) the oldest known Bible in the world, and b) written in Greek.
He is wrong. Most of us know the history of your precious book a lot better than you do.
Let me help you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible
I would hope the original bible would be the most accurate being the Vulgate and all that. After all, all other bibles are mere copies.
Unless you pull crazy logic out such as the divinity of the King James bible…
i can honestly say that it is hard to believe something that you can not see. but the answer to your question is… faith! it takes alot of faith to belive in something that we cannot see. Thats what faith is, beliving in the unseen, trusting in the unseen, & the bible has been traanslated directly from the hebrew bible, but it is all the same it gives the same message. even though we have many different translations it all comes from the same origonal thing. i know from experiance that it is
tallywa,
“it all comes from the same origonal thing” – What is the original thing you reference?
“i know from experiance that it is” – You were around when the bible was cobbled together between 400 A.D. and roughly 1600 A.D.?
sry i didn’t finish that sentance, but what i was talking about was that it all came from god. it came from the same place the holy spirit. i know from experiance that it is hard to belive in something like that. right now i am going through alot of stuff& it is difficult to lokk on the bright side of things.
Life experience from a naive teenage girl. Show stopper.
@ tallywa:
“it takes alot of faith to belive in something that we cannot see” [Her spelling and grammar, not mine]
No, it doesn’t. It takes gullibility. You, like many others, are so gullible that you let a small group of men dictate how you behave and how you think – all because of a transparent fairytale about a Jewish zombie.
What you call “faith” is not a positive character attribute, it’s an emotional and intellectual retardation.
I might also say, anyone who says it takes a lot of faith in something they cannot see to perceive the benefits is trying to get credit for the effort it takes to warp their own brain to “belive”. Faith is harder than accepting fact, faith is hard work! Goody for you, if the god you “belive” in existed, he would surely appreciate you forcing yourself to see with god-goggles on when you could have just taken them off. Fortunately, faith is an optional exercise since god doesn’t exist; faith in a non-existent entity does neither require nor prove that it exists! Work harder, your faith needs to be stronger to will your god into existence…. oh, that won’t make a difference, sweetie. Just so long as I don’t have to work that hard to get the same results, I don’t care what you want to waste your brain doing, but it sure isn’t reading the dictionary.
ok may i ask why u renouced god? what happened that made you turn away.
he doesn’t need it but when you love something so much you want to give it praise, you want to thank that certin thing that saved your life & didn’t kill you the first time you messed up, u no u could be thankfull u don’t live in haiti where they had that earth-quake & u wern’t the 1 who got killed!
Why would God make it easy for us? Hehe! After all, it’s not like we risk burning in hellfire for the rest of eternity… or anything… nasty… like… tha…
Umm. Yeah. Good point.
So sad… hopefully this kind of irrationality will continue to fade…. in the US Atheism is right behind the Mormons in relation to acquisition of “new believers” though i know new believers in relation to Atheism is a non-sequitur.
I will like to say that I completly agree with Phil. There is historical proof. and it is the Bible. The bible has been translated directly from hebrew so it’s not a matter of false translation. We are more ready to believe that something out of nothing just blew up and created the universe and it’s complexities than to believe a written document. Could someone please give me a proveable example of an explosion resulting in the creation of something more complex? …a volcanic eruption?…no….a bombing of a building?…no….throwing computer parts around and hoping for a computer to take shape?…no……….hmmm…
Sorry, i missplaced my previous comment. It is in response to Phil’s point below.
So if there’s historical proof, why is your name “faith”? What do you need faith for if there’s proof?
Ahhhhhhahahahahahahahaha!
I apologize, I missused the word “proof”. We do need faith to believe that there is a God, but you also need faith to believe otherwise. For example, how do you think that the world was created as a result of a bang? No one was there. How do you know that we evolved from apes? You can’t turn a chimp into a human overnight. How do you know there is no God? No one knows everything. All of these require faith as do creation and the belief that there is a God. The bottom line is that there is only ONE truth. And we will find that out at the end of time…if there is one. :)
We are talking about vastly unequal amounts of faith.
Having faith in the notion that the chair won’t evaporate or grow wings and fly away when I sit on it is decidedly a different thing in scope than having faith in an invisible creator being.
It is faith nonetheless. Faith is faith, you either have it or you don’t. If you’re in the middle you clearly have none. No one can have more or less faith.
Faith – it’s heaven or vegas baby…..heaven or vegas :)
I can assure you it is nothing like Vegas.
Are you saying that you think there is a heaven then?
there is an end & all that don’t belive WILL go to hell! i hate to break it to u but it is true. i totally agree with Faith.
seeing isn’t beliving, beliving is seeing.
Faith and tallywa,
you two are strong belivers and i have to say its people like you who are willing to stand up for what they belive in, make this a better place to live in thank you:)
your welcome
You’re right… God could come to us in the form of a man… we’d probably kill him, but then he’d rise from the dead… oh wait… that all happened and people still don’t believe.
God has given us every reason already to believe in him, even outside of Jesus, we see the existence of God in nature. (Though saving knowledge of God is found only in Jesus.)
>>that all happened and people still don’t believe.
My problem with that is how do you know for sure?
>>We see the existence of God in nature
Can you give me a specific irrefutable example?
um.. HELLO look around! i’m serious do you really think that the beauty of the world around us came from a monkey? or perhaps a big bang? where is the logic of this? u don’t even have proff of a monkey turning into a man, or that we came from a one single celled organisim, or space rocks. you cannot do that it is not right, u can’t make a 2 celled organism out of a one celled organism. but i no where i came from & it’s not from any of that stuff.
Tallywa:
Every scientist there is has said that the Theory of Evolution has been irrefutably proved. There is a lot of proof for Evolution. The only reason you’re against it is that you’re too egotistical to admit that you’re descended from a primate.
ok 1 i am not egotistical 2 i DID NOT come from a monkey & u no wat u r rong if u would pay attention u wood c that every time the scientists try to prove something they just prove more & more they prove that the bible is true!
The bible which claims that Pi is exactly 3. You haven’t even read it, have you? What are you, 14, 15? Go away and come back when you’ve actually *read* the bullshit you’re arguing for – and don’t lie to me and tell me that you have. You haven’t. You might have read the little bits of it that your pastor chose for you, but go away and read the rest. Meantime stfu and stop embarrassing yourself.
where in the bible does it say that pi is3?!?!
& i am 16 i will be 17 n july!
This… this is just sad.
The Bible that said that the Earth is the center of the universe? ‘Nuff said.
I would like to see what the scientists have proved in the BIble’s favour. Hmm, let’s add up the major scientific discoveries of the past 150-200 years…
1)Advances in Geography confirms the world is billions of years old – Disproves 6000 year old Earth. Not in the Bible’s favour.
2)Evolutionary Science proves animals evolve through a process of gradual mutation and natural selection – Disproves Adam & Eve story. Not in the Bible’s favour.
3) Theory of the Big Bang is developed – Disproves Creation story. Definitely not in the Bible’s favour.
4) Advances in medicinal practices and curative processes – Makes the reliance on prayer kinda obsolete? Not in the Bible’s favour.
5) Historical discoveries, you know fossils, artefacts, discovery of ancient human settlements, etc – Pretty much disproves the majority of the Bible.
And I could go on an on…But I have an exam to study for!
Did I mention that advances in understanding human psychology and sociology highlights how religions are formed? Read up on Durkheim’s theory of religion.
tallywa FTW! wood u agree?!?!?!
Better to come from dirt than from a monkey.
That actually kind of hurt to read.
God’s given us “every reason to believe in him”…except actually interacting with humankind in such a way as to be incontrovertibly verifiable. Instead, this alleged deity seems to “appear” (and in most cases, by proxy) to people whom we would consider to be mentally unstable. But if you have some incontrovertible, empirically verifiable proof of the existence of this deity, Phil, please share.
Didn’t you read his post … “we see the existence of God in nature.” Not sure what that means exactly but that’s the kind of guy god is. He doesn’t like to blow his own trumpet ,so to speak, so prefers things a little more understated. It’s obvioulsy our fault for not seeing the evident truth in this. I mean just look at the Earth, you’d think it had been tailor made for being inhabited by humans. Consider just how perfect the entire planet is for us.
The Earth is not pefect to us, the planet is trying to kill us.
We need protection like houses, clothes and machinery to stay alive.
actually the Earth is pretty perfect for us. it sure beats the hell out of Mars or Venus anyway.
My point exactly …
Minus all the mega tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanoes, disease, this is a perfect world.
From deserts to the poles, alot of the Earth’s biomes are hostile to human habitation.
This is not the best of all possible worlds Dr. Pangloss.
Earh will be very deadly in a million years from now.
… and who gave us the free will so as to ‘invent’ these items. Was it not god?
If god is omniscient and he can see all of time and see how everything turns out, why were things so primitive and that it was up to humans to progress anything? Do you know how long it was before PANTS were invented? I notice no animals sinned in the garden, they’re all allowed to be naked except for some dogs, and they don’t have to go to church every Sunday. Don’t tell me we’re superior as humans compared to mere beasts either. What we are tends to be gullible to charismatic public speakers who interpret the word of god, animals do no such seeking. I mean, who is the superior bullshit sniffer? We are animals with the intellectual capacity to do it, but some take their brains, put them in a box, wrap it up with a big bow and hand it to their invisible friend because they don’t understand how flowers and snowflakes could even exist if someone didn’t make them so pretty. Too large a job for humans to conceive could just happen without a designer. You’re not qualified to call that a logical conclusion.
Sorry Kodie I was joking with my comments. The one thing I did realise was that acting like a fundie is far, far easier that actually having to think for yourself.
I caught on a little later downthread you silly Poe! Here, have a rainbow.
“Do you know how long it was before PANTS were invented?”
Do you know how many people suffered and died before antibiothics were discovered?
Yeah yeah, that was god’s will because the germs weren’t discovered yet, so they didn’t exist until we had to make telescopes to see them and medicine to fight against them. But god made a world in which pants weren’t supposed to be necessary . So but anyway, god exists even though we can’t see him with a telescope because he leaves his calling card in the shape of the genetically bred banana and rainbows.
oh no u got that all wrong ok we are killing the planet, we are killing our selves!!
Jabster, you’re absolutely right! Tomorrow, I shall go have lunch with a black bear and then go play with a copperhead. ;-)
I’ve heard this argument used more than once about how lucky we are to live on such a perfect planet so it most be divine intervention. Well as long as you disregard the oceans, the poles and then vast tracks of desert all of wish are virtual uninhabitable by humans. Even then you are left with an environment then even now makes life hellish for a significant proportion of the human race. So perfect seems to mean possible or perfect for the creator if it was a sadist. I’ll remember to remind my other half that I got her the most ‘perfect’ birthday present using this terminology!
“I mean just look at the Earth, you’d think it had been tailor made for being inhabited by humans. Consider just how perfect the entire planet is for us.”
You have that quite backwards. We evolved to fit the planet, not the other way around.
I think Jabster was being facetious.
@CoffeeJedi
That’s because you’ve interpreted the evidence from your world viewpoint and I’ve done the same from my world viewpoint. Both of these viewpoints are based on the same amount of faith and so are equally valid unless you’re trying to persecute my beliefs? It’ll be a sad day when this persecution has gone so far that it will become acceptable for a non-Christian to become the president of the United States of America.
I think we already have a closet non-Christian as president. He only goes to church for show, I bet…
Of course he’s not a Christian with a name like that!
Well, I was thinking it was the Harvard Law Degree, but I guess his name could be part of it too (he was raised by a liberal Hawaiian mom).
i no what u mean, this country was founded on a christian basis not ateism, or muslim, catholic, or something like that. we are the ones who are killing our selves,
Since when did Catholics become not Christian? I’m actually an atheist so nothing personal. Just wondering…
ok catholic is based on christianity but it is not fully christianity.
Weren’t Catholics the original Christians, and then the Protestants broke off from the Church?
I agree, we adapted to the planet so it became our home.
But in a 1000 years both the Moon and Mars will be perfect for us since we adapted to it. By then we probably have the medicine to adapt to low gravity, radiation and low atmosphere.
But from romantic point of view, saying that some men with a beard created all thos for us, sounds sooo romantic even though it is not true. The thougt counts, it does not have to be real to be romantic.
And then he could have stayed here instead of blasting off to somewhere in space and being here with each generation could have continued doing all those stupendous things he did for other people back then to convince them. But he didn’t because he had to send the invisible God who was already everywhere so that we would have a comforter who would clear up everything….
I’m getting a headache.
No, he didn’t. First of all, there’s no historical third-party historical evidence whatsoever to suggest that Jesus even existed (in fact, he might well have just been a re-telling of an OT story – Joseph). Secondly, stories of “the resurrection” didn’t appear until generations after he was supposed to have lived (likewise the immaculate conception.
As for seeing God in nature: I have heard an awful lot of extremely plausible explanations for the existence of nature (i.e. abiogenesis and evolution) which have a HUGE amount of facts and evidence that back them up – so why should I believe in an extremely implausible one (i.e. God and the Genesis story) which has absolutely no facts or evidence whatsoever to suggest that it’s anything other than a myth?
Sorry, Phil, but if you make a sweeping statement like that about your imaginary sky-daddy, then you’d best be able to back it up!
“Sorry, Phil, but if you make a sweeping statement like that about your imaginary sky-daddy, then you’d best be able to back it up!”
How most naive of you. When have you every seen this type of statement backed up? It almost seems like some mantra that must be repeated over and over again until its truth can not be questioned.
That’s how we roll, here in America. Scream loud and often enough, and voila! Truth!
It’s a lesson I’ve learned the hard way working with my American colleagues … they have a far greater capacity to sound (be?) confident even if they aren’t that sure. In the UK the tendency is to play it the other way around and only be that confident when you would stake your mother’s life on it.
ok now it’s ur turn to back up ur story, where is ur proff?
Read pretty much any decent science textbook.
P.S. Creationism does not come under the heading of science.
“we’d probably kill him, but then he’d rise from the dead… oh wait… that all happened and people still don’t believe. ”
Yah, so glad he gave that up and started with the much more believable appearing in the form of Cheeze Sammiches, Dirty Windows, and Bird Poop.
WIN!
Yeah, that was pretty funny.
I’m of Irish/Welsh decent and I just discovered my God “Lugus” is older then your biblegod, (so there) and your God plagiarized my Gods story….
“Lugus was believed to have had a strange birth. His mother was the virgin goddess Aranrhod (“Silver Wheel”). When her uncle, the great magician Math, tested her virginity by means of a wand of chastity, she at once gave birth to a boy child, who was instantly carried off by his uncle Gwydion and reared by him. Aranrhod then sought repeatedly to destroy her son, but she was always prevented by Gwydion’s powerful magic; she was forced to give her son a name and provide him with arms; finally, as his mother had denied him a wife, Gwydion created a woman for him from flowers. “(http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/350984/Lugus)
(his Mom was even tested by “the wand of chastity” plus she didn’t have to go through the whole 9 month thing and he wasn’t born in a barn either, plus his wife was made from flowers.
Top that bible god….
The great magician’s name was Math? And he uses a, um, “wand of chastity” to “test” for virginity?
I like this religion much better already.
u don’t have any proof of that. where was it recorded or was it just passed down from generation, to generation?
You don’t have any proof of anything. Are you calling the bible a “record” of god’s word? That’s simply false. You also don’t seem to understand when you reject gods other than your own, on whatever basis (in your case – requiring proof, holding it to a standard of communication, “was it recorded or was it just passed down from generation to generation?”), you are starting to understand why we don’t believe in yours either. Where is your proof? What method of communication (a book? JUST a book????) do you consider the true word of god as opposed to an oral transmission? If you can’t see the parallels between one myth and another, you are really in no position to choose which one is the correct god or god story to believe. Your standards are biased toward your god, and your critical thinking skill is not even on the charts.
>>Can you give me a specific irrefutable example?
Hi. I’m still waiting for your response Phil.
Phil? Hello….? Phil…..?
Phil was either a Poe, or a Drive By Christian. Nothing more to see here.
I agree, Sunny. We’ll likely see Phil again when Daniel does a post that mentions abortion.
Couldn’t god just appear to each of us in a vision and speak the tongue we each are familiar with and say “yeah, im for real yo” ?
Seriously, wouldnt be that hard for an all powerful creator to make his existence known.
So, if he does exist, he’s an ass, or Loki, because he like to play games.
Of course He could, but why should He? He already gave us His proof of existance 2000 years ago. It’s too bad that people still don’t “see” Him. But then what is faith? You’re probably sitting in a chair which then you have faith that it’s holding you up. Everyone has faith. Why can’t we have faith that we are accountable to a higher power? Are we scared of what the consequenses will be of our sins, so we just deny God and pretend there is no such thing? Satan will blind us into believeing this. If there IS in fact a higher power (…who knows… there could be…) and you stand before him at the end of your life, what will you say? Think about it.
Faith:
Actually, due to the fact that Newton proved that everything has a magnetic field, you’re actually floating a tiny distance above your chair due to it’s toms repelling yours. By the way, the key word in this sentence is ‘proved’. Tomorrow we do shapes and colours.
Sorry, ‘atoms’.
i am glad that there are others who will stand for what they belive in! it’s about time.
“If God wanted us to think he exists, wouldn’t it be pretty simple for him to convince us?”
I think Xtians think it is simple–”just look around.” As an atheist, I look around and say, “yea…your point?”
Like (I think) Hitchens said, in order to be persuasive throughout all time, all Jesus would have had to do is something he said his followers would be able to do if they had faith the size of a mustard seed,: move a mountain. Surely his faith was greatest of all and it therefore should have been easy for him. People would see it recorded in history and geography that a mountain that was sitting *here* is now sitting *there*. That would have been irrefutable proof of the truth of what Jesus (allegedly} spoke.
Hmmm… The Bible. The Alleged Word
& may i ask wat is ur reason for being an athiest?
tallywa,
It’s spelled atheist. :-)
Spend an hour or so reading the various entries here or even Daniel’s story on the About page. That would be a good starting point as to why any of us are atheists.
k, don’t get offended i just wanted to no. i mean is there like some kind of major problem that you’ve had or something? i mean i have had alot of problems in my past but that is whats supposed to make u closer to him. i’m sry if i offeded u.
tallywa, no offense taken at all. Sorry if I came across harsh in any way.
While each of us are where we are in our lack of belief for our own personal reasons, there are many commonalities in those reasons. You can browse through the different posts and get a sense as to what some of those reasons are. As for myself, I had no major problem that pushed me to not believing. It was a slow process where questions about god and the bible where never answered completely. And as I read the bible (as my pastor told us to) I essentially peeled back the layers of hipocrasy and inconsistancies in the bible.
I am where I am now because of my reason and intellect. I simply do not believe in the god of the bible. I could write pages on all the specifics but I have kept this short.
Please don’t start with the idea that atheists had problems and abandoned god. I think why I’m an atheist is because god cannot exist. There is no proof and no reason for a god to exist and the universe functions ok without the concept, much less an imaginary supernatural force. Any closeness you perceive between you and a god is imaginary. I don’t know what you particularly perceive when you ask the air for help and you end up helped or comforted somehow, god is just an imaginary friend, and that’s ok sometimes if you need it, but he still doesn’t exist. It’s illogical and unnecessary for the existence of god to be true, that’s in a nutshell why I don’t believe in god. I didn’t get mad at him, I just never believed he was there because it doesn’t make any sense. God, you might say, is in his right to defy logic, because he is god, but I would say that god simply cannot exist if logic exists. I could explain it a lot longer if you are too confused, but that would probably be a waste of my time.
You know, if God was so busy minding his own busines, you would think that god would create some kind of certification program for priests. And once in e while they go up to heaven for additional training.
And have a magic forcefield that rebuffs the lewd advances of dirty little children.
Ah yes, those alter boys. Always trying to sidetrack priests doing the lord’s work.
why else would god send them to the church lookin so damn good?
sign from god…
I came across this priceless bible verse yesterday:
Exodus 4:24–26
24 At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses and was about to kill him. 25 But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it. “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. 26 So the Lord let him alone.
Yep God ran into Moses in the hallway of a lodge. Right up there with the sheep and horses in heaven verse. Horses you ask? Yes, enough for the armies of heaven. As someone said on here, why would they need armies in heaven? “To keep out the gays!!” lol
Don’t gays go straight to hell? Lol. Completely agree with everything on this post except for Phil…
Check out my Atheist / rational thinker store. I keep all of the prices as low as possible through zazzle in order to get as much out there as possible and help spread the word that we’re not going to take this shit anymore. :-) http://www.zazzle.com/briman232*
Happy moments, Praise god
Difficult moments, Seek god
Quiet moments, Worship god
Painfull moments, Trust god
Every moment, Thank god. for some people this means alot for others it just confuses them, for some other (athiests) it is a waste of time to write it down but for me it means alot & it helps.
Happy moments, praise those involved.
Difficult moments, seek comfort from other humans
Quiet moments, contemplate yourself and others
Painful moments, get a painkiller
Every moment, stop wasting them worshiping an imaginary sky friend and start living.
what do you mean?
That one question just totally summed up how thick you are.
Awesomeness Roger.
Translation for people who are not so hard of thinking:
“Happy moments, Praise god” (rather than praising yourself or the others who have made you happy).
“Difficult moments, Seek god” (rather than actually trying to do anything about your problems that might help).
“Quiet moments, Worship god” (rather than either taking a rest or doing something productive instead).
“Painfull moments, Trust god” (because the same God that makes you happy sometimes makes you sad at other times for no particular reason other than because he just wants to – yeah, that makes him trustworthy. doesn’t it?)
“Every moment, Thank god. “ (because God, and more importantly his priests, love good, subservient little minions).
This is sad. Anyone in this bog of stupidity who is still a christian, thank you for holding your faith. To help with understanding these other people, read the Screwtape letters. This isn’t entirely their fault… as you will understand soon. And for everyone else, please, read the Bible. Yes, read it. That goes for you people who say that you read it and found it wrong too. If you can’t understand it, start in the book of Matthew. Or read the Screwtape Letters to understand why you can’t focus/understand it. Believe me, this will help all of you.
So what about those of us who have read the Screwtape Letters multiple times, as well as the Bible? Do you really think us reading your favorite books will magically turn us into ignorant fundies?
I always really liked that book. I thought, religion aside, Lewis had some decent (occasionally profound) insight into the psychology of belief and the nature of evil.
I liked it more when I was religious, but I still do like it. Better than Narnia. Not as good as the Space Trilogy though. IMO of course.
Add me to the list of people who’ve read both multiple times.
I honestly didn’t like the space trilogy. Thought they were shallow and transparent.
Can’t wait to see the response this one is going to generate. Daniel might need to apply for a fireworks license…KBANG!
can we really blame him for not wanting to talk to us?
I mean, we’re the scum of the earth. No self respecting perfect being would want to do with us.
To the original question, yes we do need God to convince us He exists. Man”s words are not enough.
1 Corinthians 2:13-14 “This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned”.
Charles Spurgeon “Scripture is like a lion. Who ever heard of defending a lion? Just turn it loose; it will defend itself.”
Has any atheist here questioned where our morality as humans comes from? It is clear that without God or a supreme being there is no way of truly saying what is right and wrong. If all beings are equal who makes the rules? If the president of the united states decides to make murder legal does this make it right? No, I don’t think so somehow. Our basic morals are all found within the God given laws of the 10 commandments e.g Murder, Stealing, Lying, Adultery etc. If the world was without a God where then would morals come from?
Yeah. That shoulda went here…
Well, your god has broken all those laws, so that rules him out as the source of any morals. If you really want to know where morality comes from, read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/23/opinion/23brooks.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=moral&st=cse
broken which laws? I think you need to explain yourself a little better?
Let’s see:
“Thou shalt not kill”. God kills like a trillion people in the old testament.
“Thou shalt not commit adultery”. Wasn’t Mary married when god got her knocked up?
“Thou shalt not lie”. Genesis 2.17 “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die”.
“Has any atheist here questioned where our morality as humans comes from?”
Of course
“It is clear,”
Evidence required. All you have to do is show how theists are more moral than other members of society. There are more Christians in prison for committing violent crimes than Atheists. Good Luck with that!
“that without God or a supreme being there is no way of truly saying what is right and wrong.”
Might makes Right?
“If all beings are equal who makes the rules?”
Which god does that again, Thor, Allah, Viranocha, or Brahma?
“Our basic morals are all found within the God given laws of the 10 commandments”
Other laws predate the existence of your silly commandments.
“e.g Murder, Stealing, Lying, Adultery”
That’s only four. you moron.
“If the world was without a God where then would morals come from?”
The same place where they come from right now, except we don’t need to make up a Farie Tale Authority Figure to enforce them.
You haven’t proved a thing with what you have said here. My point was that it isn’t irrational to believe in God or any god for that matter because of this reason and numerous others. One thing I don’t like is the know-it-all attitude of atheists. Being generous here, let’s say you only know 50% of everything there is to know in the world. Is that fair?
If this is the case how do you know that there isn’t evidence of Gods existence in the other 50%? How can you be so certain that there is no God? I haven’t come across one shred of evidence disproving God’s existence that can’t be debated.
Please provide that evidence which exists in the ” other 50%.” once I have a chance to consider it I will be happy to reconsider my position on the existence of god.
Evidence which can’t be presented and tested isn’t evidence at all though – it’s speculstion.
You are missing my point. What I am saying is that YOU don’t know everything so how can you be so certain there is no God?
Do you know there are scientific things in the bible that were written about hundreds of years before they were scientifically discovered? Do you know about bible prophecy? Did you know that the bible talked about a greek leader (Cyrus the great) hundreds of years before he was even born? Did you know that the bible accurately described the nations which would conquer each other (beginning with babylon) hundreds of years before they were even considered? Its all truth…No coincidences.
I’ll say no more for now.
Cyrus was a persian leader (my bad) look it up if you want.
I can evaluate evidence – actually I’m quite good at it – I have evaluated the evidence for the existence of god and found it sorely lacking. It’s based on that analysis that I can say with great certainty that there is no god. Now, if you are saying that I can’t say with 100% certainty there is not god, then I readily admit that’s true. That’s a remarkably low standard though. I also can’t say with 100% certainty that there isn’t a giant carniveroud sloth in my kitchen right now (as I’m sitting in the living room), but that doesn’t mean I believe there is a sloth in the kitchen.
I have read and studied the bible, and frankly you are just making things up. I’m happy to consider whatever evidence you have from the bible though, but don’t expect it to be persuasive.
From what you are saying I would believe if you say you have read the bible but studying is a different matter. Not one of the things I mentioned above is untrue or not found in the bible. I have studied it myself.
The scientific evidence? I have a whole list of them here:
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Charts/CheckableBiblicalAccuracy.html
- Things written in the bible way before they were discovered by the people of those days.
Bible prophecy:
The persian leader Cyrus is mentioned many times in the old testament BY NAME isn’t this a bit too accurate? Before you say “oh, that was added in at a later date” there’s a whole article here explaining it and reasons why it couldn’t have been. – http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/264-cyrus-the-great-in-biblical-prophecy
The book of Daniel and Revelation’s prophecy reveals the rest of what I mentioned and much more if STUDIED PROPERLY.
I can elaborate if you wish…
I’m not claiming to have ALL the answers about the beginning of time… I don’t think I ever could – I wasn’t there, neither were you or anyone else, but I know the bible has more than enough answers and explanations that we NEED in order to have a reason for believing in it.
By studied properly I guess you mean take the buybull as accurate first and then try and twist some verses to look like they predict thing after they actually happened. And as for the Cyrus mentions, you choose to ignore that the buybull was written centuries after Cyrus so the people who wrote the buybull didn’t need magic powers to know about him and his role in jewish history.
Thanks for the links, but citing Christian cites is hardly convincing. Beyond which, the ” prophecies” listed are so vague as to be about almost anything, and you have cited no authority for the alleged “beliefs held at the time. Also, as Yoav aptly pointed out, no magic on the Cyrus front.
I ask for evidence and you give me this? Please inform me of this “proper” study of which you speak. I can’t wait to hear about it.
“You are missing my point. What I am saying is that YOU don’t know everything so how can you be so certain there is no God?”
And this can be turned around on you also. What Im saying is that YOU don’t know everything so how can you be so certain there IS a Gawd?
My point proven… I read above in the post some guys debating about faith… Basically what you have just said to me shows that it takes faith to believe there is no God as well as faith to believe there is! I have faith. I believe.
Its so easy to dismiss God just because we can’t see him on the surface. The bible also defends itself. Matt 7:7 Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. If you haven’t searched with the intention of finding the truth then I know you won’t find it. I have been there before.
Please define what you mean by faith as you seem to be using it to describe different concepts …
@ Priveliged:
That’s absurd. You either fail hard at reading comprehension or you’re being wilfully ignorant.
Do you have “faith” that Odin isn’t the father of the Gods of Asgaard and his son Thor doesn’t hurl lightening bolts at the Earth during storms? Or do you simply dismiss it as being a story invented by people who didn’t know any better? How about the Flying Spaghetti Monster – do you need “faith” to think that it doesn’t exist? Of course you don’t. So why do you think we should need “faith” in order to discount the mythology of a tribe of desert nomads from six thousand years ago? Believing that they somehow knew more than us takes faith to the point of extreme gullibilty – Knowing that they certainly did not is just common sense – no faith required.
Common Sense: So rare its a goddammed Superpower.
From this guy I’d accept common sense as a candidate for a jenuwiiiiiine, honest-to-blog miracle.
“You haven’t proved a thing with what you have said here.”
I’ll offer proof when you do.
“My point was that it isn’t irrational to believe in God or any god for that matter because of this reason and numerous others.”
Well then you better stop lollygagging around and start making that point. We’re waiting, hurry up! It’s irrational to believe in Farie Tales but if you have some evidence, we’ll listen.
“One thing I don’t like is the know-it-all attitude of atheists.”
On one hand you have atheists asking for proof of god, and on the other you have a Theist, who out of hundreds of different religions to choose from, claims to know it. That know-it-all attitude, how does it go again?
“Being generous here, let’s say you only know 50% of everything there is to know in the world. Is that fair? If this is the case how do you know that there isn’t evidence of Gods existence in the other 50%? How can you be so certain that there is no God?”
So then God-of-the-Gaps? If your god is so small to have to hide in the gaps of human knowledge why do you worship it? It’s truly hilarious how people try to pump up this supposedly all powerful, ever present, universe creating force and then cut it’s legs off and stuff it into the areas where human knowledge quite hasn’t filled in the blanks. Let me guess It’s hiding right next to the invisible unicorns?
“I haven’t come across one shred of evidence disproving God’s existence that can’t be debated.”
Evidence disproving, you’ve got that backwards. We don’t have to disprove god, you have to show that one exists.
We’re waiting.
“Has any atheist here questioned where our morality as humans comes from?”
Yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_morality
Lolwhut?!
Answer me this:
Are things morally correct because [1] God says they’re morally correct? Or does [2] God say things are morally correct because they just inherrently are?
If the first option is true, then you must accept that if God says the Holocaust was good and moral and just, then that makes it so. Do you accept that? You also have to accept that it is morally correct to force rape victims to marry their attackers, to allow gang-rape of your daughters and to stone children to death for being cheeky (all of which are in the bible – the inspired word of God written down at his behest by men). Do you accept that any of those things are good or moral or right? No? That rules out option [1], then.
Onto option [2]: If some things are inherrently good and morally right and God simply pointed them out to us, then he by deffinition cannot be the source of morals. He’s just telling us about something that’s already there – and if it’s already there, then it’s inherrent to human nature and we’d have figured it out for ourselves pretty quickly without his help anyway. That being the case, how can you insist that God gives us all our morals?
Verily, dialectic is a sharp blade, and it hath severed the head of your arguments!
“You also have to accept that it is morally correct to force rape victims to marry their attackers, to allow gang-rape of your daughters and to stone children to death for being cheeky (all of which are in the bible – the inspired word of God written down at his behest by men)”
I’m not saying these things are not in the bible. There is a reason for all of it. Could you please find the texts and post them?
No. Look them up yourselves if you want to – meantime ANSWER THE QUESTION.
Apparently, Google is of the Devil. He’s forbidden to use it to search for satanic information.
Kinda like those weird orthodox jewish people that pay gentiles to turn on lights for them.
Try Deuteronomy 22:28-29, and Numbers 31:17-18 if you want a couple of good examples of the sort of thing Custador is referring to.
Don’t let him deflect – I want him to answer the original question I posed. Come on, Privy – which is it?
Privy Friend, you found yourself in a bind here, are fighting a losing battle because you are still holding to the duality of the law (the old covenant), ie right & wrong, good & evil, ‘morality’, etc. Your intentions are well-meaning but that dispensation (age) has passed, is (literally) dead having gone with Him to the cross and ‘died’ there, meaning to our old nature and lives received in the adamic, in the human paternity and seed now having (if indeed we have) been born a second time but this time of the spiritual seed and kind inwardly (Jesus saying ‘marvel not that I say you must be born a second time). Also see John 1:12&13, Romans 6:6, Col 3:3&4 for more insight friend as to the transaction that has (past tense) taken place in the eternal realm which is now your reality and inheritance in Him. Also see Eph 2:6 for where you are ‘seated’ now in Him which is ‘above’ this lower realm. Btw, that ‘place’ is within you as JC taught us in Luke 17:21 saying that ‘the kingdom of heaven is within you’, in your spirit where He resides in you for He is the ‘place’ that He is taking you (dyht?).
So now you’ve got the reason worshiping bulldogs chasing you down, pointing out harsh OT verses assuming that God requires your defense, needs your help with all this and that you must somehow be bound to this nailed-to-the-cross covenant of mere ‘types and shadows’ (Heb 8:5) of a new and much better promise/covenant today (for thru Moses came the law but grace & the TRUTH came thru Christ). There is now only one law (and that which He Himself is, His life in us fulfills all the righteous requirements of the law) as He is a Law unto Himself ‘the Law of the spirit of LIFE in Christ Jesus has set us free from the (old) law of sin & death’. You are free in Him, He takes your liberty very seriously, is jealous for the spirit He made to dwell in you’ James 4:5, is fully committed to your liberty from the law, and from the effects of trying to live from it. So be free.
Leave ‘morality’ behind friend, I know it sounds good and all but in the spirit (where you are now) there is no duality, only an eternal ‘above the line’ heavenly/spiritual reality that is now yours in Christ Jesus. So finally ‘apprehend that which you have been apprehended for’ which is peace, liberty and life, no more striving to please, self effort is self defeating, you now live on the ‘Seventh Day’ (which is what the Sabbath is symbolic of) and God ‘rested’ (grace) on that seventh day of creation because…’It Is Finished’ as Christ said on the cross, and you can not add to an already finished work. Now God implores us to ‘rest from our work (efforts at pleasing Him) as God rested from His’. Peace now.
He’s not in a bind. He got Pwned. There’s a difference.
“Leave ‘morality’ behind friend…”
So very true. Christians should never touch the subject on morality for the sake of humanity just like your bible says. Thanks John.
I’d say empathy. Realizing that others probably don’t done to them what you don’t want done to you.
“That list is hilarious, and the fact you consider that “scientific evidence” is just sad.”
Because…??
I actually find this quite funny… I’m one young guy talking about the bible against however many others there are on here at the moment. Obviously you guys are fully set against God with no intention of accepting any evidence stating otherwise. Honestly you guys are pretty harsh! I’ve made no statements which have no reason for anyone to believe them, given and examples of evidence to back them up… all I keep getting back is “oh you’re stupid, its fairy tales what’s wrong with you etc” and you talk to me about providing evidence? Obviously I’m wasting time posting here. The truth will always be the truth, regardless of who believes it that can goes for me and for you. We’ll leave it there dudes? Study your bibles. Its a deeper book than you think.
Laters
Yes you will be wasting your time unless you can post evidence and not just wishful thinking …
Yeah, well, Florien’s Bulldog here will still be waiting to ask yo uthe same question that you’ve refused to answer me every single time you come back, so unless you can back your sh*t up, I suggest you back your sh*t down.
The truth is easy, really: You can’t answer the point I’ve raised about the origins of morals because any possible answer you could give would totally invalidate your “faith” (read: gullibility). And you think what, that makes you superior to us? Boy, you took a verbal beat down. I get kind of a warm glow watching you run away trying to convince yourself that you won when you, me and everybody else knows that you’re chickening out of an argument you can’t win.
Because some of those facts are obvious (“Blood is essential to life”? Every human and probably most animals that ever lived in this planet realized that); others are not obvious but no doubt learned by humans through experience (“do not eat animals that died naturally”); others are false, like your “creation sequence”; others are absurd (“The North is empty”?); and finally, others are not even “facts” (“Eating blood of animals forbidden”, “Directional correctness.”)
And in most cases the supposed “biblical refence” is extremely vague or totally unrelated. The few sensible things contained in that list humans could easily have learned by themselves. No need for any “divine revelation”.
Its interesting how the site sort of slip over the fact that the creation sequence in the buybull is actually plants, THE FU*KING SUN sea life, birds,etc.
You are just attributing common sense to divine knowledge, nothing deep about that.
Halo to all Christians,I just want to encourage you not to get to bothered about the wordly ‘wisdom’ / foolishness of those on this website. You may supply them with the word of God, but ultimatly it is up to them honestly look into it with open minds.
I just want to point your attention to the logo above that says ‘reasonable thoughts on religion, science and skepticism’. All against you are what they are, thoughts, opinions derrived from life experience, rather than truth. and It takes maturity to learn to be readdy to change your oppinion when fact opposes it.
why should oppinion not be taken as surtainty in debates or conversations as the ones on this website. It is because life experience destorts peoples thoughts of rationality and morality. eg. when a child is threatened with discipline, if they dont behave and the parent doesn’t follow through with the punishment, the child will learn that they can push the limits, knowing that the parent won’t really do anything. this will destort their morals throughout life with the thoughts shuch as ‘I can get anything I want’ fro example. etc.
so I say to the Christian be ready to share the truth, but it is up to them to go deeper.
and to the non-believer I would like to give you a statement, a question and someencouragement.
There are some certain things in this life that we all experience,one of them is death.
The question is… where do you want to be afterward?
and if your want be real and true, why not research, look deeper than the seface, don’t take anything for its face value just because your scared or arrogant, do you not want to be wise and factual, even if you are certain you won’t believe, at least look deeper into it to prove try and proove us wrong.
But, I can almost garantee that after your honest research that isnt driven by opinion, but rather fact, you wont be able to.
If you are the one that is searching for more in life… I know where you will find it ;) go for it.
Don’t leat fear get the best of you.
and if you think your mistakes are too big or too horrible to be forgiven that you would rather believe that there isn’t a God, I want to tell you now that he has forgiven worse. Nothing is to big. He’s God.
I’m not saying it is all hunky-dory, its not, its real, with trials and tribulations, with all the ups and downs of this life, but that very real whole inside you that you sometimes wonder about and even ignore… well… you will find out.
so to all, believer and non! Keep openminded and may you find the truth, don’t give up. :)
John C…. Wow. Just wow. You don’t know what “truth” is (that which is supported by facts, that which accurately represents reality) and you confund “maturity” with extreme gullibility and childishness. Just wow.
Did you mean JC or John C Custy? Cuz if its me, yes you and I have two entirely different ‘realities’ that we each live from, but that is not news to either of us, we have already established that ‘fact’ long ago. Anyways, all the best across the pond to you today sir.
I rather assumed that you were both the same person, actually! Apologies for the mistake.
P.S. I am slightly dyslexic, so please forgive my grama and spelling errors.
JC-w-JC
I forgive your gramma and spelling errors. But your logical errors are frightening.
oh yeah, and for those who love science. There is more than one reasonable theory, so I would urge you to keep up that wich you love, but to dig deaper in that aspect too, look at all angles, not only the ones that fuel you opinions. ;) Keep it up! don’t give up
All righty then; if you’ve got some scientifically supported evidence of the existence of your particular deity, please, feel free to share.
Easy out friend, you can ‘know’ in exactly the Way He said you could, but not in the way you ‘think’ you can. All the best.
If you are going to try to do this you should at least understand what you are arguing against. No one here thinks that their mistakes are so bad that god can’t forgive them. The people you are talking to think that your god is a mistake. And since he doesn’t exist, there’s no worries about whether he will forgive us. My advice to you is to “look at all angles, not only the ones that fuel you opinions”.
lol, well that defeats the point doesn’t it. but I could give you a websit with many interesting theories on it, I do want to warn you, They are a bit rude when it comes to people who do not share their beliefs, particularly athiest. It is a shame, I do hope they would stop that, there is no need. so please egnore their occasional arrogance, but the research behind the majority of it is well worth the look. it is creation.com (don’y worry about putting the www. in the fron, it takes longer to enter the websit that way.
There are plenty of other websites you could look at too, if you have had a look at that one and would like others,pleas let me know. Thanx
Happy searching!
Had a look in your website and not surprisingly it’s just the usual creationist drivel. Better luck next time.
to Nox. It is not my intent to have a debate with you or insult you as you have just tried to do to me. and your right, should look at more, there is so much out there that is so interesting, I should make more time… could you recommend something?
To yoav. so in half an hour you had a decent look? what did you find out? what article did you look at?
1. learn to use the reply function.
2. I read this one which is just the old, oh scientist have revised the age of the oldest multicellular organism based on new evidence instead of insisting that anything not found in a 2000 years magic book is not true, evolution must be wrong. They then do some hand waving and make the assertion that the buybull provide a much better explanation of the Gabon find without actually providing any real argument (since they have none) as to how does the biblical explanation is better.
If you tell me which article you read then maybe we could discuss it?
Didn’t insult you. Didn’t make any comment at all about you. I insulted your post. And if you don’t want people pointing out that you are posting bullsh*t, you should skip posting bullsh*t. I simply gave you a friendly piece of advice about knowing your audience.
But if you do want to talk about the science of creationism, perhaps you can explain why Genesis 1 claims the Earth experienced alternating periods of light and darkness (referred to as “evening” and “morning”) for 3 days prior to the creation of the Sun.
well I seemto have found someinfo on it. http://bibleq.info/answer/2251/ I havent finnished reading it,I just thought I would let you read what I was reading.
to be honest, I don’t agree with the state ment made on that website
http://www.creationtips.com/light_sun.html another
well, my thoughts were leaning toward this. one more. I do not know all the bible, so this might be a bit of a jump, I would need to do more research. But from genesis we find that the serpent ( the devil) had already been cast out of the heavens. Darkness is the absence of light and the earliest seperation from God (or light) i could possibly think of would be that when the devil (often described as the murder, the lier, the great deciever, and ‘darkness’) was cast out of the heavens (this could have been that day? maybe? but as I said I would need to do more reaserch. as I would expect you to do to seen as it was you who wanted to discuss it?
(A) There is no mention of the serpent being the devil or the devil being cast out of heaven anywhere in Genesis.
(B) You are trying to address questions that no one asked while ignoring a clearly stated question.
(C) I’m not even asking you to do any heavy ‘reaserch’. Just to read the first 19 verses of the first chapter of The Book You Are Advocating Here.
Why is it every time I meet someone who thinks the bible is true, I quickly find out they have never actually read it?
give a man a break, there are 66 book sin the bible, and its not books you can just skim through ether, they have so much meaning behind them, as well as historical backgorunds to look up, as well as mathimatical and literary elements to them to hint towards more understanding. have you read 66 books in one year? easy? the thing is, I am not just reading it, I want to study it.
Uh JC, I’ve actually read the bible. When you have at least done that once then we can compare how much additional research we have each done (I’ll win).
And you can’t use the excuse that there are 66 books in the bible to distract from the fact that You Have Not Even Read The First Page Of Your F*cking Holy Book!!!!
um, that was quite a quick assumption… yes I have read it. quite a few times.
(B) oh in otherwards you want me to sy I don’t know… well thats OK, I don’t know from personal experience as I was not there. but does that prove your point… No. If I asked you how many babies were born this year in the USA and what weretheir names? and you said you didn’t know, would that meen they never existed?
This one is weak even by creationist standards. Magic book say there was light before there was a sun (and for that matter there was an earth before there was a sun), we know that’s BS but we can’t accept the obvious answer i.e magic book is crap so we will invent a story about invisible sky fairy using a magic flashlight until he had a chance to make the sun. Is that the best you can come up with?
come one Yoav… I was begining to think you would be better than this, why do you speak with such an attitude? who are you to determine what is and is not possible? have you heard the new theory on gravity… that it doesn’t exist…at all. if this is so then our presumptions of gravity could be radically changed? you would be ok with that wouldn’t you? just because there is no God involved… or is there?
I will happily consider any new explanation that is based on actual evidence. What the sites you were posting, and any other creationist site I have seen so far, are doing is making claims based on nothing but wishful thinking and anecdotes (except the ones basing their claims on good old honest to god lies) picked to fit the predetermined conclusion based on a book of bronze age fairy tales. The difference between your claims and the ones me and others were making is that ours don’t require rewriting the evidence to fit a conclusion made in advance.
well actually, when Darwin got evolution to ‘take off” in his time, he did exactly that, aquired evidence and ‘fixed’ it to fit the conclusion he was looking for. even though the thoery of evolution was around befor Darwin, what some say he birthed was origionally pagan belief (something far older that christianity). anyway, if you study darwin’s life prior to his ‘discoveries’, you will find that the science he used was out dated and using the science we use to day, almost all of his ‘evidence would be and have been disproven. sorry, I wen’t a bit off topic, just thought you might want to look into the history of your own belief system before you slander others.
From your response I assume you never read the origin of species, I highly recommend you do, it’s quite readable and should be understandable even by non-experts. You shouldn’t believe what you read in sites like answer in genesis or hear from your pastor about evolution. True the concept of evolution was there before Darwin since as Geology and biology were becoming more scientific during the 19th century it became more and more obvious that life has not always consisted of the animals we have now, Darwin major contribution was suggesting a mechanism for evolution to create more diverse and complex decedents out of a common ancestor (natural selection). Darwin science was very careful and of high quality and by no means based on fixed evidence. Some of the particulars in his book are now known to be inaccurate due to the fact that genetics and the mechanism of continental drift were not known in his time but modern science have not proven any of his actual conclusions wrong. He understood that there need to be a way by which information is passed from parents to offsprings and a way by which animals could have got from one continent to another but then get insulated but he didn’t have the proper information to come to the exact mechanism. Actually a good example of Darwin intellectual honesty is that in his book he reject the theory of ancient land bridges between the different land masses, that was popular in his time, even thou it would have allowed him an easy explanation to the problem of migration.
You used the word “slander.” I do not think it means what you think it means. To say that creationism/”intelligent design” is an intellectually bankrupt mish-mash of nonsense that hasn’t one iota of scientific evidence to support it is not slander.
http://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j03_1/j03_1_067-071.pdf another resource
http://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/tjv16n2_waltke.pdf
this has very general articles on gen 1:4, so you may need to sive through them
sorry,you would need to type in gen 1:4 on this site
Dude, linking to a bunch of articles without even reading them is not reaserch. I have to go to work now so I’m just gonna save you a headache and give you the answer.
The reason that Genesis 1 claims Earth experienced 3 “days” prior to the creation of the Sun….(spoiler alert) is because the bible was written by bronze age goatherders who had absolutely no special insight into the origin of the Universe. The correct answer to my riddle is “of course it doesn’t make sense. it was written by a caveman”.
http://creation.com/journal-of-creation-212
http://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j16_2/j16_2_83.pdf this might be interesting
it is later in the bible that speaks of the serpent as the devil. the thing is, I didn’t tell you that that was what it was anyway, I said I would research it and I have been. yet you would ask me a question without looking at any of my research? come on man? is that arrogance or just plain laziness? do you judge a conclusion according to your own bias opinion or real effortfull research? because if it is the first then you are no scientist or at least shouldn’t be tslking as if you have the answeres. a theory remains fact until prooven otherwise,but if you never give any opertunity for it to be proved wrong,then what the point. your actions are similar to those who burned others for saying that the earth was round, except you do not burn others with fire you burn others in your sarcasm and and arrogance. one day you will need to grow up and realise that the world doesn revolve arrond you znd that your opinions dont matter at all the day you die. those will be the last thing on your mind. I hope you realise that soon. nevermind creation vs evolution, its your attitude that is harming the way science is done, you have no eticate or fair decution. your conclusions revolve arround what best suits you… come on its time to be real
What in blazes are you talking about?
ok, so its about 2:14am where I live so I wuld like to say goodnight. please please do not be so quick to judge a thoery on a few articles you read because you didn’t like the way he said it. but rather look at more to deduce fact from fraud, because I will admit that there are some out there who are bogus, and just give a lot of lip service. but this is not only for creationist, but for evolutionist to, when are they going to let their opinions be subject to change, and take fact for fact. ant the myne has more proof than yours non sence is stupid and just devides evidence in two. which is just stupid (lol in my opinion) – what irony. But seriously dig deeper, just because I don’t know all the answers or is not that good at research shouldnt stop the rest of the world from doing it…? does it?
Go little bird, fly away to claim victory!
Stupidity Contaniment System Activating in 3, 2, 1
Shouldn’t that level of stupidity be painful? Good frakkin’ grief. The guy just spazzed all over the place, didn’t he?
It was all that one-handed typing it was doing.