Israeli rabbis are not allowing “unpure” Jews marry “pure” Jews:
The rabbinate says that Mr Tarosyan cannot prove he is Jewish according to its strict standards and therefore should not marry Ms Samosvatov, who is considered a proper Jew.
Mr Tarosyan, aged 34, who moved to Israel from Moscow in 1995, called his treatment by the rabbis “humiliating”.
“In Russia we were hated because we were Jews and here in Israel we are discriminated against as Russians,” he said.
It’s this kind of crap that happens when you have religion in control of marriage:
“Civil marriages are not possible in Israel,” he said. “So the rabbis get to decide who can marry and who cannot.”
Israel has passed control of all matters relating to personal status — births, marriages and divorces, and deaths — to rabbis belonging to the strictest stream of Judaism, Orthodoxy.
Official figures show that as many as 350,000 Jews are classified by the rabbinate as having “no religion”, and are therefore unable to marry in Israel. Their only option is to wed abroad —the marriage is then recognised on their return.
Once again, religion is holding back basic moral progress.
I have an idea — just let people marry. It doesn’t matter if one is white and one is black. It doesn’t matter if one is Catholic and one is Protestant. It doesn’t matter if they are both men or women. And it doesn’t matter if one is 79% Jewish and the other is 43% Jewish. If they want to get married, let them!
It doesn’t really matter whether it’s Israel or Saudi Arabia, those both countries are FUBAR.
I want to marry that cat. It’s hot!
Just another one of religions greatest hits. I agree with you completely on this one Daniel. Mark
Exactly. Everyone should have the right to marry whomever they want an go through a bitter divorce just like the rest of us….
I think this is fantastic.
It just helps demonstrate that religion is just a sham.
It’s a huge political thing in Israel. The problem is that because of our rather screwed political system a small group like the ultra religious (maybe 10% of the population) can be the balance of the coalition and therefore blackmail the government and kill any law to separate the legal aspect of marriage from the religious one. However its going to come back and bite them on the ass. What happening now is that many couples who have no problem to get married in Israel and that if there was a civil marriage option would have gone through the religious ceremony similar to many non religious people in western countries who do a religious ceremony in addition to being registered by the civil autorities, out of some respect to family tradition or to make their grandma happy, are making a point of not going on with it but rather go to Cyprus and get marry there just to take a stand. By keeping this kind of behaviour these guys are just getting even people who are more traditional and still have some religious sympaty even if they dont observe every little stupid rule mad enough and hopefully soon that resentment will grow strong enough that the other political parties will realize that to keep bending over to any demand made by these A## holes is going to cost them the elections and get rid of all these religious crap in our civil law.
I think I should emphasize that it apparently isn’t just a matter that they can’t marry a recognized Jew but that they can’t marry anyone in Israel unless they formally convert to one of the recognized religions (and then they generally can marry only someone of the same faith). Conversion to Judaism must be strictly Orthodox and difficult to achieve.
Oddly enough same-sex marriages performed abroad in countries where it is legal are recognized in Israel.
The common denominator here is that each religion that got a little power use said power intolerantly, each one protecting purity of dogma over love.
This is exactly like the “not straight enough to marry” thing we have going on here in the States. Except most people here would view that okay and what’s in this article as not okay. Is there really a difference?
Me too, I agree 100%.
“Their only option is to wed abroad —the marriage is then recognised on their return.” Nicely hypocritical. I heard the same about Ireland (sorry, I don’t remember whether it’s Northern Ireland or Eire – but I’d guess Eire), back in the mid 80s – they didn’t allow divorced people to re-marry, but if they re-married elsewhere (ie, where it was allowed) the marriage would be recognised.
The religious parties would have loved to stop it but they can’t since Its a matter of international relationship. If you get married in country A and then move to country B they will always recognize your marriage and not force you to remarry. Therefore once you show up with a legal marriage certificate the Israeli government has no choice but to recognize it and register you as married. Hopefully the public pressure will force the politicians to make a civil marriage option avalible and then whoever want to go on with the religious ceremony of their choice are welcome to deal with what restriction this religion has and leave the rest of us out of their mess.
The U.S. does not recognize homosexual marriage, I don’t believe, even if the ceremony was preformed legally abroad.
Like i said before the fundies haven’t realized how the are damaging their own agenda by forcing religious marriage. Without this law the cases of israeli citizens who go abroad just to get married (as apposed to what most countries will see which is immigrants who came already married) wouldn’t be such a common scenario but since it is when the first gay couple who tried to have their marriage recognized and was refused appealed to the supreme court they had the large number of cases where people who can’t marry under israeli law had their marriage recognized when preformed under a different juristiction when the same restrictions don’t apply that the court ruled in their favor and ordered the government to recognize their marriage just like they do with any marriage of Israelis abroad.
Israel is the most rediculous place that calls itself a country in the modern world. Formed after one of the worst atrocities in the 20th centruary it has gone on to cause more pain, suffering and bullying to many more millions of people and over a much greater time scale than the Nazis ever did.
Yet the west arent as willing to destroy this country as they did Nazi Germany.
Places where religion is in charge and people are thown out of thier houses for being the wrong religion shouldnt be accepted or endorsed in the 21th centuary.
That’s the sick joke of Israel – they carry out attrocities that the Nazis might have thought extreme. But you’re not allowed to criticise them! Oh, no! If you do that you’re an anti-semite! The idea that anybody could imply any form of racism in defence of Israel sickens me.
Generally I’m sceptical of those who say the world has gotten too politically correct, but in the case of Israel, it is very true. Even when people in the mainstream press or politics do criticise Israel, it is done in such a mild manner that it appears to be merely a recommendation or guidelines to follow. For example, the flotilla attacks violated both peremptory norms and principles of territorial jurisdiction, but was the criticism harsh? Not really. The Western world criticised it and condemned it, but that was the end of the issue. But they haven’t imposed any punishments as they would with another nation.
David Cameron condemned it in no uncertain terms. I was pleased about that.
Anyone with Russian-speaking family in Israel will tell you of their Atheist beliefs, and how they do no even believe in G-d. I believe that the Rabbis are doing the right thing by separating the faithful from those who are not faithful. How could one want a Judaic wedding under a Chupah (Jewish-style wedding canopy) in Israel, whereas all the blessings refer to G-d’s greatness, and yet they do not believe in G-d. What’s the point of being a heretic. If you want a civil wedding without any Judaic ties, feel free to find it all over the world in cities like Paris, Athens, and Rome. If you plan on having a Chupah in Israel, and want an ornate Rabbi present, then I suggest you shape up and learn what you are asking for. No need to change the system since IT is not broken. People should realize WHY there is a separation to begin with.
Except in this case we’re talking about someone who acknowledges and claims to be of the jewish faith and was judged not jew-y enough. Sounds like its broken to me.
Don’t you know? God’s chosen people have to be pure and Eugenecist to purge the Untermensch from amongst them and… SAAAAAY! Wait just a cotton-pickin’ minute here! That sounds kind of… Fascist! Kind of… Nazi! That can’t be right!
I don’t know where you get your info about everyone supporting the system. The religious monopoly on marriage was a mistake made when the state of Israel was founded and is kept in place only by the fact that the messed up electoral system gives the religious parties unproportional power in the Knesset. The religious argument of who is or isn’t Jewish should be irrelevant for all matters of the secular law and the only way to do that is a separation of the legal aspect of marriage from the religious one so that any couple, regardless of what religion they do or don’t belong to, will get registered as married in front of the civil authorities and that will be the only aspect required for them to be recognized as married by the state, if they then want to preform a religious ceremony they can do it in their own time. You are probably aware of the growing number of people who get married abroad either because they don’t fit the extreme view of the rabbinical authorities or just because they don’t want these stone age idiots involved in their celebration and forcing their primitive views by making the woman into a passive participant who has no role in her own wedding ceremony. But there is hope, over the last few decades the fundamentalists by pushing themselves deeper and deeper into any aspect of life in Israel have finally seem to have got people pissed enough to push back and drag the country kicking and screaming into the century of the fruitbat.
Can someone please comment as to why marriage should be changed? Why not change legislation and offer the same legal/financial benefits to every civil couple. Change all the forms to state both, “Marriage” and “Civil Union” together, and that both should be afforded the same privilege of privacy and sharing of wealth. I dont believe that marriage should be extended to homosexuals. I respect homosexuals as people, and dont have any problems with them. What people do behind closed doors is their own business, and doesnt take money out of my pocket. Only I feel that calling a same-sex civil union a “marriage” is not correct. I believe that same sex civil unions and marriages should be separate yet equal. A bird can love a fish, but where would they build their home? The Torah speaks of homosexuality, and relates that having such tendencies are not the problem–acting on this sexual drive is where the problem is. One can want many things, but for whatever reason, people who feel such homosexual desires are not even trying to be hetero-sexual in the least. It is so easy, and accepted to be homosexual, that there are even hetero-sexuals today who are turning to homo-sexuality as a fashion statement!!!!
Yeah, so easy unless you live in a religious country -yes, nowadays mostly islamic countries- where they ccan simply kill you. And yet, they are still homosexuals there. Your lame point about people not trying to be heterosexuals has been disproved years ago: we don’t choose wich sex we are attracted for.
Of course, any homosexual could try celibacy forever, just in case they could annoy someone /sarcasm
Why should people *try* to be heterosexual? Seriously, there’s no more reason to be het than there is a reason to be homo. It’s the same damn thing, except in the parts that shouldn’t matter to anyone but the parties involved.
But yeah, being gay is so easy and comfortable. Full of sunshine and rainbows, really. I mean, I love not having the right to not marry my soulmate! Being beaten to death for not being the same as everyone else is cool as well. Right? /sarcasm
Ariel… I thought long and hard about a way to express this in a reasonable, mature, adult way, but when I boiled it right down your post demonstrated far too clearly that you’re a glaring homophobe who’s found a pretty way of rewording the old classic “I’m not homophobic, but…” routine. Basically, you’re a twat. But I’m going to try anyway:
Your religion does not get to define the term “marriage” in anything but religious terms, and neither does anybody else’s. The word “marriage” as dealt with in law is defined by the law, not by your superstitions – and in law, we are all equal. As I’m sure SCotUS will demonstrate in the fullness of time, the law cannot withold the legal word and status “marriage” from any couple who are both of legal majority age.
Now, your religious leaders can feel free to withold the religious status of “mariage” (because they’re twats too), and that’s their business – and why they’re less and less relevant every day – but they don’t get to dictate their definition of marriage to the rest of us.
– but they don’t get to dictate their definition of marriage to the rest of us.
Exactamundo
Custador said it pretty nicely, but here’s the tl;dr version:
Marriage is a legal and a religious union. The religious side is controlled by whatever religion you subscribe to. The legal side is controlled by the state. And legally, the state cannot withhold rights from a group of people for religious reasons.
And frankly, the fact that you can say “separate but equal” and not imagine where that will take us (especially given today’s homophobic climate) says a lot about your bias here.
Please see “Trembling Before G-d” the movie. It is a documentary about Orthodox Jewish people who deal with homosexuality.
Want me to demonstrate why fundie Jews are complete wankers on par with fundies of any other religion? Fine, I will:
– SHAFRAN, Avi
See, they can get legally married, but not religiously married.
If Mr. Tarosyan can’t prove he’s Jewish, there’s usually a good reason behind it (he’s probably not).
Many Russians come to Israel under false pretense of Jewishness, or whom are not Jewish according to Jewish law.
If Mr. Tarosyan was Jewish NOT on his mother’s side, he is not Jewish according to Halakha.
If it’s important for him to be considered Jewish and be married as a Jew, he needs to convert, simple as that.
If he doesn’t think it’s important, he can take his future-wife, go to Cyprus (just 45 minutes by plane) and get married there and their bond will be recognized legally (though not religiously).
The fact that some of you don’t like the rules, doesn’t mean the rules are bad…
Yonatan, let me try to get it through that tick head of your. The problem is not with the religious rules it’s with the government shoving said rules down people throats whether they want to or not. Why should a couple where one isn’t jewish (or christian, or muslim) or who just don’t want any agents of a bronze age mythology in their wedding go to Cyprus, why not create a civil marriage and let anyone who is interested in a religious wedding follow the religious rules while the rest of us can ignore the whole thing.
No sane, impartial person would find those rules anything other than ludicrous.