by Lorette C. Luzajic
Part 17 of the Pillars of Faith series
Marching to Zion
Fire and brimstone is alive and well. The San Antonio church, Cornerstone, boasts 19,000 members, and the ministry telecast spans 160 TV stations and some 50 radio stations.
Though his disparaging comments against women, gays, blacks and pagans raise few eyebrows among fundamentalists, Hagee’s militant pro-Israel stance is controversial. He believes Jews have a special arrangement with God and don’t need the blood of the lamb like the rest of us. Hagee defends Zionism, calls for war with Iran, decries Palestine, and fights anti-Semitism, earning “humanitarian” awards from Israel.
Hagee blames those cult-y Catholic Christians for the world’s historic hatred toward Jews. The Catholic Church (“the Great Whore”) and Hitler were in conspiratorial cahoots with the Devil.
But wait! The Jews may be God’s chosen, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t on this lunatic’s list of derision. After all, they brought the holocaust on themselves, in an ancient curse by God for perpetual idol worshipping. Despite the tragic torture and death of millions, Hitler was heroic, fulfilling Zion by driving the Jews back to Israel where they belong! Hagee’s eager for nuclear war to erupt out of Israel, because that is a pre-requisite for Christ’s return.
The Book of Revelation
Pullquote: Gay marriage will open to door to incest, polygamy and every conceivable marriage arrangement demented minds can possibly conceive.
If Hagee sounds confused, it’s ‘cause we don’t understand the finer points of the Good Book. Though Hagee rails against the witchcraft of Harry Potter, he’s all for prophecy, speaking in the tongues of angels, miracles, and white winged horses. Though the man’s many prophecies have failed to come true, that’s because God changed fate in the few seconds beforehand, ever merciful.
“The signs of his coming are very clear… If you listen closely, you can hear the hoof beats of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, racing toward to battle of Armageddon,” he says.
Climate change heralds the end times. “All hurricanes are acts of God … New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God,” he said about Katrina. Katrina cancelled a “homosexual parade.”
“Gay marriage will open to door to incest, polygamy and every conceivable marriage arrangement demented minds can possibly conceive. If God does not then punish America, he will have to apologize for Sodom and Gomorrah.” John makes no mention of the bald fact clearly written in my scriptures: that gang rape of the virgin daughters was the best way to show hospitality, and that making it with daddy in a cave while drunk was a wholesome way to spend the evening as a family.
Thoroughly Modern Millie
Pullquote: That Hagee was unfaithful to his wife, ditched her, and married a younger woman from his congregation isn’t something he brings up often.
“Christians don’t steal or lie, they don’t get divorced or have abortions.” That Hagee was unfaithful to his wife, ditched her, and married a younger woman from his congregation isn’t something he brings up often. But he’s NOT embarrassed to talk about his indulgent lifestyle — his ranches, gun lockers, barns, lodges, smoke houses and mansions. His own salary is among the highest of any nonprofit CEO — over a million per annum, plus benefits of every kind. He has had to answer to the IRS and some Christian finance watchdogs for his lavish lifestyle and for laundering his book royalties through his nonprofit ministry. But he doesn’t much care how close you look. “I deserve every dime I’m getting,” he says. “Poverty is caused by sin and disobeying the word of god.”
But his hatred of homos and tightwads pales in comparison to how he feels about women.
“Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick,” he wrote in one of his page-turners. But his sermons are more lively: “God paints the portrait of the ideal woman … she is a mother. If a secular humanist…made a picture…of the thoroughly modern Millie, it would be with a cigarette dangling out of her mouth… language that would make a sailor blush … breath that smells like a brewery… a condom in one hand and the feminist manifesto in another listing the local abortion clinics…”
Every good fundie knows that women have no use but sex and childbearing — Tertullian, Augustine, Knox, Calvin, and Hagee have all said so. But even the staunchest inerrancy folk are pretty sure in 2009 that black people have souls and are not work mules for the white fat cat. But not Hagee. At a Cornerstone Church fundraiser for high school seniors, he advertised, “Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone!” Tipping his hat to the idyllic past we’ve let slip out from under us, Hagee’s “slave auction” was just that added touch of class. One has to wonder who saddles the horses and fetches the mint juleps on his 8,000-acre ranch.
Lorette C. Luzajic writes about all kinds of interesting people at Fascinating People.
“…the ministry telecast spans 160 TV stations and some 50 radio stations.”
Okay Jabster, do you want to say it this time or shall I? I think it’s your turn.
What a nutter.
It’s bad enough that people like this can con so many into joining their craziness. But what gets me is that they seem like the types who would actually try to make the terrible events they look forward to really happen. That’s sick.
I bet if he wasn’t in a pulpit but just screeching at, say, an office party, people wouldn’t listen to him.
Some people make me really dislike humanity.
Never underestimate the blind stupidity of people to find someone who can and will, for a price, voice their fears. I hope an Invisible Space Daddy (thanks bill maher!) takes this buffoon away real soon and lets the rest of us get on with making the earth a better place.
By and large, of course, I agree with this post. But the following annoys me:
“John makes no mention of the bald fact clearly written in my scriptures: that gang rape of the virgin daughters was the best way to show hospitality, and that making it with daddy in a cave while drunk was a wholesome way to spend the evening as a family.”
Where does the Bible ever say gang rape is the best way to show hospitality? Where does it say that “making it with daddy in a cave while drunk was a wholesome way to spend the evening as a family”? Of course, I understand that story of Lot is being referred to, but nowhere are those kinds of actions condoned in the text.
That is the exact quote I had copied to respond to. In the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot offers his virgin daughters to the crowd outside his door to protect his two male guests (who, according to the story, are angels). It’s the men that the crowd actually want to rape, so the implication is not that gang rape is a good way to show hospitality, it’s that preventing your guests from being gang raped is a good way to show hospitality. Naturally, the offering of his daughter is still abhorrent, and I’m not particularly trying to defend the story, just to see that it’s told accurately. If anyone cares. Also, the daughters sleep with their father not because they think it’s a “wholesome way to spend the evening” but because they think they are the only humans left alive, after witnessing the fiery destruction of the cities and everyone in them, and their mother turning into a pillar of salt. Based on this assumption, however incorrect, there is no other way for them to procreate and repopulate the Earth, which is their purpose in doing it. They get their father drunk because he would not otherwise consent to having sex with them, clearly making it something Lot didn’t think was good to do.
Also, why was Sodom destroyed? Because it sinned against God. But, what was that sin? Homosexuality? Nowhere is these such a claim. Fundies like Hagee would like you to believe that homosexuality is a sin decried in the Bible, and they will use this story as proof. But, where’s the evidence? You can’t just “assume” you know the answer. (Besides, the concept of homosexuality was unknown in ancient times. In fact, it is a concept of the post-Enlightenment society.
“Besides, the concept of homosexuality was unknown in ancient times. In fact, it is a concept of the post-Enlightenment society.”
Huh? I’m going to assume I don’t understand what you mean.
Based on other things this person has posted, I am going to be less generous and assume they have no idea what they are talking about.
Fundies like Hagee would like you to believe that homosexuality is a sin decried in the Bible, and they will use this story as proof. But, where’s the evidence? You can’t just “assume” you know the answer.
This, I agree with. The story itself doesn’t make it explicit why the city is destroyed.
Besides, the concept of homosexuality was unknown in ancient times. In fact, it is a concept of the post-Enlightenment society.
Uhhh, no. Not at all.
Actually, if you read the academic literature on the subject of sexuality in the ancient world, you find that their worldview on this was very different from ours. It was based more on inequalities of power. So that it was OK for an adult man to have sex with a boy, but not with another adult man. While this seems strange to us “moderns”, it was the norm back then.
I’ve read the literature, David.
So that it was OK for an adult man to have sex with a boy, but not with another adult man.
The fact that it was not “okay” for one adult male to have sex with another adult male reveals that they did have some conception of homosexuality, at least in terms of sexual activity.
Of course, they didn’t understand genetics or genetic predisposition or sexual orientations, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t have some idea of what homosexual attraction and homosexual sex were.
“Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.” – Ezekiel 16:49
I’ve seen zillions of well-documented cases where a man raped his daughters and excused his behavior by claiming it was their idea, they got him drunk, he didn’t want etc.
The story of Lot is different how?
It’s different because it probably never happened ;)
Hagee at times has referred to himself as “Doctor John Hagee” even though he does not have a doctoral degree. Much like his hero “Doctor: Cyrus Scofield.
Probably a lot like “Dr.” Carl Baugh, who seems to have no real degree of any kind. All you need to do is find you some unaccredited Fundamentalist Bible School that likes the outrageous the things you say. You probably don’t even have to show up to get the sheepskin. They’ll mail it to you.
My favorite line on a resume for an employee was “Education: Phoenix University, applying soon”
“The signs of his coming are very clear
… If you listen closely, you can hear ”
Now he’s Dr. Suess
I don’t scare easy when it comes to this type of apocalypticism, because most of the time, people envision “spiritual battles/warfare” when they talk about it. However, I think we ought to be concerned about Hagee and his followers. He’s a guy that’s concerned me even before leaving fundamentalism … and I think a lot of Evangelicals would agree on that point.
Lorette, I do have one question for you. I know Hagee’s ministry fairly well, but I have no idea what this paragraph is referring to:
But even the staunchest inerrancy folk are pretty sure in 2009 that black people have souls and are not work mules for the white fat cat. But not Hagee. At a Cornerstone Church fundraiser for high school seniors, he advertised, “Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone!” Tipping his hat to the idyllic past we’ve let slip out from under us, Hagee’s “slave auction” was just that added touch of class. One has to wonder who saddles the horses and fetches the mint juleps on his 8,000-acre ranch.
What’s that all about?
http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/03-96/03-05-96/2slave.htm
Google “John Hagee” and “slave auction” and you’ll be hooked up. To be fair, it was a while ago, and he apologized after meeting with some black rights’ groups.
Go camping with Pastor Hagee!
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/20278737/jesus_made_me_puke/print
Hagee blames those cult-y Catholic Christians for the world’s historic hatred toward Jews.
I was just looking over your article again … and while generalizations are horribly dangerous, I think it’s fair to say that historically, the Christian church has done a lot to perpetuate distrust and hatred of Jews … IIRC, that was one of the points of your Martin Luther article, wasn’t it?
I think the idea is that ONLY the Catholic Church is responsible for anti-semitism. Obviously, the -real- Christians like himself would not propagate such silliness.
Also, Luzajic later draws a comparison to his claims that Hitler was heroically fulfilling prophecy or some such nonsense, so it also shows the contradictory craziness going on in this guy’s head.
I hope you dont actually pay her to post her slimy, slanderous “work” on your forum? If so maybe she has a refund policy….never hurts to ask.
You like this “religious” dude, John? I thought you were anti-religion.
No, I dont support his “ministry”, not my style. I’m just kinda surprised that you accomodate her style on your forum, it seems a bit beneath your standards to me, that’s all.
Ah, so you’re opposed to racist homophobes, but you dislike people who point out their racist homophobia?
I’m pretty sure no one cares about your critiques of anyone else’s ‘style’.
No, Daniel, he’s just full of disingenuous, solipsistic shit.
Then again (citing above comments) maybe she’s just perfect for your target audience!
Btw…you never answered the (implied) question…do you actually pay her to post that rubbish? Or are you pleading the 5th here?
Still looking for a job, John? Thinking of selling your rubbish?
I only write truth Ty and you guys have already let me know you’re not interested in any of that….yet.
why do you guys read this forum??? why torture yourselves? you know what you’ll get here. You: M.O.#1 Shout. Rail. Decry. Insult. M.O.#2 Slink away when cornered by your own illogic. It’s the same, every time, with every post. You will not convince or convert anyone here, so please stop the self-flagellation ( even though it is encouraged in your belief system, though without expectations of growth and change, but solely for punishing you because you are “bad”- it’s all so nonsensical).
Truth??? hahaha
Jesus will tell you if you ask him in faith. Be sure to report back what he says.
John, not answering your questions is simply responding to you in kind.
Your internal god still ain’t convinced me he’s there, even though my eternal soul is apparently on the line. Why John? Why?
And why no response, eh? I’ve asked you that same question on these threads at least three times. And in the few instances where you’ve responded to any question your answers are nonsensical gobbledygook.
So please forgive Daniel for not answering your implied questions when you can’t seem to bring sense to your own answers.
Met, his answer is obviously inferred by his reluctance to answer the question, which is fine, its his business what he does with his money. I simply cant imagine paying for such nonsense but I’m actually a Daniel supporter, find his arduous journey fascinating and him to be a gutzy, intelligent and resilient character.
I answer the forums questions all the time despite knowing that all I will get in return is bashed (save the rare follow up response of some depth, some literary esteem). So I go into it knowing the consequnces since none of you here can barely accomodate an occasional disperate viepoint. I find that regrettable but par for the course, I know it wading into it, stilll….I love you guys.
John, everyone here knows the answer to that question except for you. I didn’t answer your question because there’s no reason I should answer it. It implies nothing.
This is just more proof that following your heart doesn’t lead you to truth, John. As in other areas of your life, you’ve jumped to conclusions based on no evidence.
So just to make things clear: No, I don’t pay people for submissions. But if I did, it wouldn’t be any of your business.
Disparate is fine.
Nonsensical is just annoying.
Reading your comments is like reading someone who answers every question with a haiku about their love of marshmallows. Funny the first time, then odd, then a possible symptom of mental illness, then just effing annoying as all get out.
Actually, Lorette’s website says she charges for her “work” (she’s a piece of work alright, lol). I would find it hard to believe that after something like 17 installments she did it all for free? Unless she’s just using the forum as a launching pad for her Jerry Springer like “career”. But like you said…it’s none of my business if you want to pay for printshit.
I’m done with it…all the best.
Ah, we’re getting a peek inside the ‘real’ John C. “Printshit”? If you disagree, how about you do so in a logical and reasoned manner? Oh, and by the way, your “all the best” is not fooling anybody.
John C. is finally finding something hard to believe, even after I’ve told him clearly he is wrong. Yet he believes in god, angels, miracles, and who knows what else.
Irony, he haz it.
Why exactly are you done with it John C? You never told us what in the story is historically incorrect? Just because you disagree with it doesn’t make it untrue.
Of course, of course …
Now how about answering my question, for the fourth or so time?
Why does your god hate me so?
Why, because I said *shit? I’m not religious and it was the most applicable word I could come up with to define her “work”. I’m not hypocritcal or some religious do-gooder, I just call’em like I see’em.
And yes Roger-I sincerely do wish you (and all here) the very best, I mean what I say…everything I say. So that being said…all the best! lol
Metro-
There is only One God and He does not hate you, rather quite the polar opposite my friend. You are greatly loved, greatly valued and highly esteemed by Him. I have found an irony in God (ha) and that is that He values us more than we value ourselves. Perhaps this is because He knows who we really are, who He made us to be…in His very image. All the very best Met.
*sighs*
John. I don’t know how to tell you this, but I think you may hate yourself.
There’s no reason for you to come here and wave your red-rag to all these bulls other than that you actively want to get gored by them.
Nobody listens to what you have to say, because all you have to say is the same old regurgitated flowery platitudes over and over and over. I have to tell you, they’re not convincing the first time or the hundredth time or any other time.
I’d rather have some militant fundie come on here and rant than read your crap all the time. Really. At least I can get a buzz out of out-net-warrioring them until they bugger off. It doesn’t work with you though, you just take another hit on your God-Crack and start spouting about universal love and Jeeeeeeeeeeeezus while totally ignoring every uncomfortable point and question that you can’t answer.
It’s sad, John, and more than a little bit pathetic. Go away. Really. Sincerely. Just go.
John, you can call things “shit” or whatever derogatory word you like. That is not the issue. The issue is that – as usual – you provide absolutely NO arguments for anything you say, other than you don’t like what you read. Whereupon you go into deranged preachy mode. And this time you even throw some unsubstantiated accusations around to top things off.
For once, HOW ABOUT PROVIDING SOME ACTUAL ARGUMENTS? If you don’t like the “printshit” you read, then why don’t you tell us what is wrong with it. Why don’t you provide some arguments for why it’s shit?
It seems you’re unable to do such a simple thing – or you have no interest in doing it. All you do is preach, and it’s really getting fucking tedious, John.
It’s an attention whore, or its existence could be is bereft of friendship. These interactions may be the only meaningful human interaction that’s available.
I feel sorry, but don’t miss it when its gone.
You’re mything the point — we’re talking political power here and now
Racialism — the cult of exalting one “race” to the exclusion of all others — as “white power” has millions of silent partners and thousands of hard-core supporters, many of whom are organized into shock troops and armed paramilitary squads. These disgusting people I call the xian-Taliban. We know they have deep pockets, friends in radio and TV who serve up endless fear and hatred, dictate terms for supporting Congressmen and Senators.
Whatever ideology stands in the way of racialism as integral to their xian-nationalist creed will be attacked and shoved out of the marketplace of ideas. Modern evolutionary theory — to the diseased minds we’re discussing — can be nothing but a competing ideology.
Whoever would stand in the way of racialist Dominionism (search term) — will find a movement determined to overthrow existing government forms and replace them with theocratic ersatz — which has succeeded in destroying school systems at a state level, has succeeded in scaring, harassing, finally assassinating abortion providers.
Dismiss them at your peril. They hate whatever cannot be reduced to their level. Their low caste xian forbearers destroyed the ancient libraries of Athens, Alexandria, and Rome, closed the schools of philosophy (which in those times also included math, biology, astronomy, physics), put the educated to death. (Read. 1Cor1:19-28 for their perverse inverted snobbery as laid down by Paul of Tarsus)
They bequeathed to us 1,000 years of dimmed reason and human squalor from which the West has never recovered. Their ominous resurgence to taunt, stymie, and agitate against the self-proclaimed wise men in power for the last 60 years measures how high economic insecurity and failure have penetrated beyond those classes always dismissed as the poor.
Obama is concerned about Afghanistan — he ought to be concerned more about Ameristan, a xenophobic, repressive, xian theocracy — already briefly instantiated by Bush II.
People who blindly follow hacks like this are completely bereft of a self- guidance system developed from introspection. If the collective IQ of the sheep would increase, these charlatans would have no audience, and they would be powerless. Cite any example of power you wish, power always corrupts. question everything, analyze everthing. As a great bumpersticker reads- “Don’t believe every thing you think.”
….Or everything you read :)
John, reading does generally require thought.
BTW, your attempt to discredit what is written here did not elude me.
Neo…great name since the kingdom (in the here and now) is for the childlike, the trusting, the foolish, the lovers….the neophytes and its beautiful man, beautiful I tell you, ha. All the best Neo.
Are you crazy on purpose, or does it just come naturally?
What’s the matter DDM? Can’t see it, this kingdom in the here and now? Wanna know why?
[No, we don't. The rest has been redacted by Daniel. John, you're overstepping the comments policy again. No evangelizing and keep your comment on-topic.]
Fair enough D…
*Gives Daniel a standing ovation for real*
Dear John C,
I’m not sure why my work makes you so angry, but I find it rather cowardly that you don’t address me directly. My sardonic style and grim humour is not everyone’s cup of tea, to be sure, and I actually don’t care whether or not you find me amusing. That said, if you see factual errors in my work to warrant all the very Christ-like name-calling, I’d love to know about them. I’m always open to correcting mistakes and make no claim to perfection. Still, if Fred Phelps and John Hagee have the right to yammer utter bullcrap in the Lord’s name, I surely have the right to highlight the sick stories that are often swept under the carpet. In fact, people deserve to know what their friends, families, and neighbours hold as “gospel truth.”
all the best
L.
Lorette,
It’s not your content, it’s the spirit (ok tone for unbelievers) in which you write that belies the article’s true intent. If you’ll notice, I have never attempted to defend any of your targets, many are merely religious types who hold (rather hypocritically) to endless burdensome rituals, rules and the like all the while promoting their (own) brands and causes devoid of mercy, kindness and love. Hence, they are easy pickins so to speak. The fact that you believe them to represent authentic Christianity (and that they represent themselves as such) is both a tragedy and deception of no small consequence.
This all began when I made the comment that I believed this sort and style of writing to be “beneath” Daniel’s normally high standards. I have spent a lot of time over the last few months discussing faith, reason, etc. I always endeavor to interact with unbelievers with the utmost courtesy irrespective of the unkind treatment I receive in return (what else should I expect?). I honestly care about these people, have a genuine interest in their stories, the why’s and how’s of it all, etc.
That being said, respectfully speaking it is true that I find little or no redeeming value in hate-filled, slanderous articles that do neither party nor the world ar large one ounce of good.
Now please, go write something kind about someone, anyone, lol.
All the best Lorette :)
It’s not slander if it’s true.
Now, it stands to question whether it is true, but once you accept that it is, slander is out as a sustainable accusation.
btw, “libel” is written, “slander” is spoken
both are malicious and false… I don’t see anything libelous in the article
I’d answer both. Sure, there are some stripped gears in John’s clockwork, but he keeps right on intentionally engaging the thinking engine. The fact that it generates silly results is not of concern to him.
You and I have had some good conversations Met, they’re not all looney tunes…take care.
This is truly a disgusting, creepy man and a poster child for why religion is dangerous.
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It is not a news article, but an OPINION piece, so even accounting for it’s bias, the article quotes Pastor Hagee out of context and misrepresents his positions. He is not against the Jews, or blacks, in fact many in his 19000 person congregation are black. Would they attend if he was pro-slavery?
He does not hate women, just the “liberated” pro-abortion, anti-family values western woman of today. And I join him in this disgust for the lack of values in modern western women. They are anti-child, anti-family and anti-male. Kudos to Dr. Hagee for speaking the truth!