Here is Julia Sweeney at TED talking about letting go of God (the first 15 minutes of her solo show):
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Everything she referenced (yes I watched the video) was referring to the “Catholic church” and “sister” such & such and was about the supposed age of accountability nonsense, oppressive man made rules, dogma, etc. This has nothing to do with “God”. You encourage the discarding of “God” but are somehow still unable (or unwilling) to make the simple distinction between religion and Christ yet are “reasonable” individuals, what gives guys? (and girls).
The only thing she discarded (and wisely so) like many of you was the catholic church, ie religion. Good for her.
Are you the Jonh C that was kicked from pharyngula?
No I’m not, too dark and dingy over there…Self has that (light vanquishing) effect. At least here there remains a miniscule glimmer.
John, your inability to grasp that the legend of Jesus was invented specifically to exploit the populace and control them through the medium of religion is…. Well, it’s staggering.
Don`t feed the monster Custador!
It’s especially ironic if you consider that even though it’s “a self-same, internal truth”, you still need to be told about it by those nice religious people before you go off berating them…
There really ought to be a speed limit for goal posts.
John C.
Completely agree with you. :)
I have the whole video. By and large, I like it. But when I encounter things like this I hear it through the ears of my parents, who are Pentecostal Christians. The first thing that slapped me in the face was the Catholicism. I could just hear other Christians breathing a sigh of relief–”It’s not real Christianity she’s talking about. If she’d been a real Christian she’d still be one now.” There’s no talking to people like that. I was one by their lights and I’m not one now.
I had bigger concerns with her understanding of the Bible. She makes some pretty gross errors. (For instance, no, in Genesis nine God did not say he made a mistake in sending the Flood. I’d almost find him more believable if he had.) People who know the Bible well will just roll their eyes after things like that and dismiss the other, good things Julia has to say.
Well, she is abbreviating a more complex reaction from God. He doesn’t say he made a mistake, per se, but he does say he will never kill everybody again, because he suddenly realizes there is good along with the evil in man.
Actually, I just realized that was the end of Genesis 8, not Genesis 9. Whatever, it doesn’t really matter.
Gen 9:15 and I will remember My covenant, which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh.
That’s what I was referring to. But even in the final few verses of chapter eight God never intimates that he made a mistake. You have to read that into the text. Now, it’s not an unreasonable inference, but it’s not a necessary one. There’s no justification for insisting God was admitting to a mistake.
The TED website as a whole rocks :-)
Agreed!
I’m trying to use my every spare minute to knit xmas presents and need something to occupy my brain while I knit. Cue TED talks.
I have her audio book, it’s very, very good. I’d recommend it to anyone, it helped me massively when I myself was letting go of God. There’s a chapter where she talks about God fading out of her life, which she read very well, very sad.
So sad…Her performance should be titled “Letting Go of Religion.” The problem is that she confuses religion with a relationship with God, which hinders her ability to know God’s truth. Religion is man trying to reach God, Christianity is God reaching us. Her ‘experience’ is only that…her experience. I’m wondering if she has read the bible despite her claims, as she consistently misquotes it or makes up her own interpretation of God’s word. Too bad her humor overshadows the nonsense with which she tries so wittily to make her points, because then you have viewers so readily sucked into the same paradigm of thinking. Some comments posted address the “indoctrination” of the church, and I do agree many churches do this, however how gullible are viewers as to find Sweeny’s performance to be enlightening or to have any truth to it? Are viewers really that easily swooned by her material, because it doesn’t fall far from her days on SNL. What I don’t understand is why people convert to atheism because ‘people’ act poorly as they claim to be Christians (no matter what domination). That has nothing to do with God’s word, truth, or God’s desire for us to act more “Christ-like.” For lack of a more sophisticated analogy, it’s like deciding you don’t like fruit because you bought and sampled a few bad apples. Forget that fruit is good for you and has nourishing qualities, or that there are different types of fruit, you had a bad experience with those apples, and therefore you will not eat fruit anymore. Sounds ridiculous?…now make the connection. We cannot make excuses for people who claim to be Christians and act poorly, or churches that make ridiculous rules or judgments that have nothing to do with God’s word, however you can educate yourself about God’s word to know the difference, and realize the most important thing is your RELATIONSHIP with God, not your religion.
I never confused religion & “relationship with Jesus” and I’m quite happy to have left both in my life. I’d highly recommend it, since there’s no evidence for any of the supernatural claims of Christianity or any other religion.
Cherie, you are very funny.
I especially like the part where you dismiss everything Sweeny says and experienced, explaining that she had it all wrong because she wasn’t using Your Interpretation. That sounded ridiculous.
People don’t “convert” to atheism because of bad experiences with christianity, it’s because there is no evidence for the critter you claim to have a RELATIONSHIP with.
To be honest the whole “it’s not a relgion it’s a relationship” sounds like something someone in PR would dream up to improve their brand image. The problem comes is when someone asks how can you tell the difference between the two?
You obviously don’t understand my point. It’s not my interpretation. Sweeny simply takes things out of context. I can do the same with scientific discoveries and twist it to draw my own conclusions. I did not intend to imply atheism is a result of a bad experience. It’s sad that you are confused about what is real and what isn’t based on this so called “evidence.” Love is real, we would all agree. Can’t see it, can’t touch it, but it is there. Sure you can see it is evident in someone’s actions, and thus is the same about faith. But I know regardless my response, it will not shake your thinking, just as whatever comment you have will not shake my thinking or my faith in God. The problem is that many atheists assume Christians are not well read, and highly educated and thoughful people, yet we do not assume the same about you. So sad.
I agree, your beliefs are sad.
I can provide evidence for Love. Can you do the same for the Relationship you have for your timetraveling zombie gawd?
“I can provide evidence for Love”
You have yet to “prove” any such “evidence” for Love here Sunny. Love is impartial, is not biased. Love simply loves…regardless. Saying things like “zombie gawd” to a person of faith is unkind, is unloving.
So go ahead, prove it. You can use me as a test case if you want. After all, its the Christmas, errh Holiday season right?
All the best Sunny
Love is impartial, is not biased. Love simply loves…regardless.
Me and my S.O. love each other very deeply, but if she killed my cat or if I started talking up serial killing as an occupation, I’m pretty sure that love would evaporate.
Saying things like “zombie gawd” to a person of faith is unkind, is unloving.
I agree, but I don’t think Sunny Day’s object was to love you with those words. But while we’re on the subject, when someone lives, dies, and then become ambulatory again, the word we generally use in English for the person so animated is “zombie”. It’s negative connotations aside, how exactly is it inaccurate?
John I would only have a use for you if I was completely out of the soft 2-ply
“Religion is man trying to reach God, Christianity is God reaching us.”
A Hindu would say the same about their religion, as would a Muslim, as would a Jew, as would all of the people who you would say are not “real” Christians.
“However how gullible are viewers as to find Sweeny’s performance to be enlightening or to have any truth to it?”
What, compared to believing in a magical zombie who’s the son of God despite their being quite literally zero evidence for that? Not so much! (NB – Please do not do what every other theist does and tell us all that there’s really loads of evidence for God and then completely fail to post any of it, it’s very annoying when people do that).
Letting go of my “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” was the most liberating act of my life. When all the not-adding-ups were finally dispensed with and I came to see my faith to be just as mis-guided as I thought the Muslim’s (and many others) were, it was refreshing to let go.
Realiing–really realizing–that there was no supernatural, no demons, no heaven, no hell, no need to reconcile all the incongruities–was utterly liberating.
Finally, I didn’t have to struggle with the strange disparities, so many disparities, between observed reality (like evolution) and my necessary position of belief.
It’s tough for anybody still saddled with that belief system to understand but it will truly be eye-opening if you can look reality in the eye without having to explain it through god glasses. I realize that its your social structure and that social structure make you WANT to believe, so that you’re honest with the many friends and family members who also believe. That’s tough. Even for me it was tough and I didn’t come to see reality until my friends changed.
But oh how nice it is to live life without that artificial layer. I still do good things, treat people with respect and so on, but now it’s because it comes naturally, not for worry about superstitious consequences.
Good luck escaping yourself if the opportunity comes up.
“Realiing–really realizing–that there was no supernatural, no demons, no heaven, no hell, no need to reconcile all the incongruities–was utterly liberating.”
You’re just denying HIS exsistent so you can justify your own immoral actions … :-)
Touching. Of course, if you’d been born in China, you’d be saying the same about the Tao (except the Tao makes more sense than your mystical zombie).
I have no wish to entertain a “relationship” with someone who blatantly doesn’t care about the world (mayhaps because s/he doesn’t exist).
Also, hi. Atheist. Never, ever, believed in your (or anyone’s) God. In spite of being raised in an eminently Christian country, among Christians.
You’d think an omnipotent creature would be able to communicate clearly. But of course, s/he doesn’t, and of course your interpretation is right, right?
LOL Jeff, you’re so condescending. “Saddled,” may be your perspective about me, as “lost” is my perspective regarding your comments.
“But oh how nice it is to live life without that artificial layer. I still do good things, treat people with respect and so on, but now it’s because it comes naturally, not for worry about superstitious consequences.”
I am laughing because you assume Christians do these things because of fear of worry and superstitious consequences.
I find it funny how misguided you are regarding people of faith. So much anger toward those who do believe in God, and so compelled to ‘educate’ others about your beliefs, and discount others’.
I’ll be praying for you. God Bless!
No anger here, and I’m not misinformed since I was a Christian for over a decade and still deal with Christians for most of my waking hours.
Waste your time in whatever fashion you see fit, Cherie.
Obviously, as are you.
How’s the praying going … can Roger feel the love yet or is he going to burn in hell because he doesn’t believe in your mumbo-jumbo?
BELIEVE OR SUFFER! Thank you for giving us all those options, Lord… Is that what a Christian calls “free will”?
Dude, that response didn’t even make sense. But hey, you’re “praying” for me, or whatever, right? While you’re asking your imaginary sky-friend for whatever, you should probably also ask the imaginary sky-friend for improved skills at sarcasm.
Actually, I’ve heard more than one person imply that atheists are atheists because they don’t want to face the responsibility of following Gawd’s morals – which kind of implies that such responsibility is the only thing stopping them from being amoral monsters.
But, knowing better, I know Christians don’t do these things out of worry and/or fear. Gawd’s quite unnecessary when it comes to this aspect (or any other, really).
Anger? Not at all. Amusement, maybe. Much like I’m amused by kiddies who believe in Santa.
I couldn’t care less if you believe in fairytales, darling. But I’ll keep saying they’re fairytales. Why? Because I can (and because it’s true).
I also won’t take it quietly when your quaint bronze-age beliefs mess with my laws and my personal life. You want to believe in fairytales, feel free to, but don’t try to pretend you’re somehow special because of it. You are not.
Please don’t. Go bother your god with more important issues – like world hunger and curing diseases such as malaria and what not.
Be careful new converts. Sweeny is very convincing confessing her personal journey as well as by being extremely funny and talented. There are some nutty parts to the Bible. Old and New Testament. There are some wonderful and enlightening parts as well. It sort of reflects us all as it contains good and bad. What a coincidence? I suppose now you want me to tell you what those good parts are? Love thy neighbor? Thou shall not kill? Jesus asking for forgiveness for those that put him on the cross? Could you do the same? I am not sure I could. I view Him in awe, not as some angry mad man that had a bad weekend? Wow. Are you sure that you received all of the information you need. Did Sweeny point out some of the good facts? All I heard were just the negative.
Seeking the truth is your own private journey. Make sure that you have all of the information. Read the Book yourself. If you are still convinced that Christ is man made, continue your journey. I wish you well and pray that you find what you need. Peace.
Owen, most Christians haven’t read the bible themselves – those that do often deconvert. Ask Daniel.
So the rebuttle is that most Christians have not read the Bible? Really? Do you know how many classes, sessions, schools and etc. that there are? Their function is to only read the Bible. Are you sure that this comment is accurate?
You missed the point. The point was that reading the bible may convert or deconvert a person, as opposed to your statement that reading the bible we will see the truth.
All this classes are intended to rationalize the bible, to learn how to read it according to your particular sect of christianity. Have you ever read the bible with no -or the less possible- preconcepts? As if it were a holy book from another religion?
The very school I went to required us to read all faiths and yes it was a Christian School so the message was slanted to Christianity. Just like Ms. Sweeny’s message is slanted to “not Christianity”. To answer your question, yes, I have read the Bible. Both to get an “A” and to understand. Christian professors are much like liberal arts professors. A little agreement helps you get an “A”. Outside of that, I have read the Bible to understand. The King James and the Living.
Please don’t assume that the Christians that might read the Bible will only read John 3:16. Most people I know have read it all. Except for that Chronolgical Table that shows up in my King James. That thing sucks as bad as all of the begeting.
The thing is, when we both read Abraham’s story -the bit about killing his son- we probably aren’t seeing it from the same point of view. I see a father who is going to kill his son because a voice in his head said him to do so. I see a father who has to agree with anything his dictatorial god wants. If I were god, according to my morality, I would have punished Abraham for being so gullible, but “god” actually put him as a model in “his” holy book. I think I’m being objective, even when I was a child something didn’t fit with that story when the pastor tried to explain it. With that one and other examples I had to decide that my morality was way better.
If you can rationalize it and addapt to our nowadays moral standards, so get with it! By I would like you to analyze if your morality fits the bible, or is it your reading of the bible who fits your morality
Yes, the story of Abraham is troubling. Ms. Sweeny covers this in her show. Unlike her, I view the Old Testament as much more disturbing than New Testament. If it were me with my faith, I would say no as well. She also covers parables with Jesus. I happen to love parables and there are tons in the Bible. If you look at this as a parable, the message is that if you are asked to give up something you really love, would you do it. What do people love? Money, big houses, cars, possesions and etc. It has always been this way. How many beggars do we ignore on the way to the ballgame. And should we go to the ballgame or give up time and money for those who are in need. Do they deserve it? Who cares? I am as guilty in some instances of doing nothing and there are times when I have do a good bit. Others might say that they should do for themselves and we do them a disservice to give. OK, then we teach them how to fish. I know that I am rambling but to me, the message is to give. Given things, time, knowledge. That is what God’s love is.
(BTW – He did not have hime kill his son, right)
Yes, the story of Abraham is troubling.
Understatement.
“Love thy neighbor? Thou shall not kill?”
Really? I have never heard of those!!111!!!!11
I’m pretty sure christianity is the only belief system who said that!!!11!
So, it must be TRUE!!11!!
“Jesus asking for forgiveness for those that put him on the cross?”
Ya know, as gospels were written some years after his alleged death, probably by someone who wasn’t there, there is some controversy about wich were his last words. That maybe also a posterior addition.
So, the new name for atheism is pessimisim? You are working real hard to make something that is very simple very complicated and yes, some of that is the fault of the Bible and all of our Christian faiths that surround it.
Look, we are not going to agree because I have my faith and you do not share it. I am just here to state my faith. That is all. Let the record show that I don’t want anything from you. I don’t hate you or feel superior to you. I pray for and wish you the best even if you don’t respond well to me. We all are accountable for ourselves. You and I have to find our own way.
That’s the kind of Christianity I can respect – the kind you don’t expect me to share ;-)
As long as this not sharing includes not trying to sledgehammer your beliefs into the laws…
How was I being pessimist?
You said that bible contains good advices. I agree. But that’s not any evidence of its claims, and it is shared with a lot of other religions. My morality is not dictated by a book, that is my choice, but we can agree in some basic points for our society. I don’t have any problem with religious people and, if they are rational enough -I mean, if they don’t deny the real world around us- I’m not even interested in changing their views.
I also wish you the best
[Note: it's possible that my "best" is not exactly the same as your "best" but I hope it's close enough]
Francesc,
Please accept my apology. I was a bit out of line with that pessimist thing. You are right. Religions do merge and cross each other. My personal belief is that there is something to that as well. I am glad that you don’t have any problems with religious people. That is one less person having a problem with me :-).
I wish you well in your journey. If I ever run into a Francesc out there and it is you, I will buy you a beer (yes beer – “water into wine” right!).
God bless (sorry, had to do it)
(I am sure that our “bests” are very similar.)