A couple weeks ago, Uganda proposed the “Anti-Homosexuality Bill 2009″ — legislation that imprisons homosexuals for life and would put HIV-positive gays to death:
The Anti-Homosexuality Bill 2009 is going through Uganda’s Parliament after receiving its first reading last month.
According to Clause 2 of the Bill, a person who is convicted of gay sex is liable to life imprisonment. But if that person is also HIV positive the penalty — under the heading “aggravated homosexuality” — is death….
The Bill proposes a three-year prison sentence for anyone who is aware of evidence of homosexuality and fails to report it to the police within 24 hours. And it would impose a sentence of up to seven years for anyone who defends the rights of gays and lesbians.
That such a bill is even being considered shows we still have a long way to go with basic ethics.
When I first heard of this, I remembered a conversation with my Dad, who advocated killing all homosexuals or sending them out of America. He backed up his view with Scripture, of course — the OT says to kill homosexuals and he wanted to live by “God’s Holy Word.”
I wish he was the only one that thought that way, but as we’ve seen with Fred Phelps and other people like him, he’s not. It’s a tragedy.
TIME is reporting that the Ugandan anti-homosexual legislation is inspired by American evangelicals:
The bill has an American genesis of sorts, inspired to a large extent by the visits of U.S. evangelicals who are involved with a movement that promotes Christianity’s role in getting homosexuals to become “ex-gays” through prayer and faith. Ugandan supporters of the bill appear to be particularly impressed by the ideas of Scott Lively, a California conservative preacher who has written a book, The Pink Swastika, about what he calls the links between Nazism and a gay agenda for world domination, which, by itself, would have raised the anti-colonial sensitivities of Ugandan society. Says the Rev. Kapya Kaoma, an Episcopalian priest from Zambia who authored a recent report on anti-gay politics in Uganda, Nigeria and Kenya: “The U.S. culture wars have been exported to Africa.”
One of the bill’s loudest supporters is a charismatic pastor, Martin Ssempa, who heads a Ugandan campus AIDS eradication organization that is funded in part by the U.S. and who was associated with the global outreach of Southern California’s Saddleback Church, run by Rick Warren, author of best-selling book The Purpose Driven Life. Ssempa has a penchant for burning condoms. In 2007, he organized a rally against homosexuality to protest “homosexual agents and activists” who were “infiltrating Uganda.” Asked how the anti-homosexuality bill might affect the fight against HIV and AIDS, Ssempa seemed bemused. “I don’t see what this bill has to do with HIV,” he told TIME. Warren, who has called Uganda a “purpose-driven nation,” cut ties with Ssempa in October as controversy over the bill grew.
TIME is also hard on Rick Warren, who has refused to comment on the legislation:
The U.S. embassy in Kampala has said it opposes the bill, as have other American officials. Even Scott Lively recently declared that the bill’s proposed prescriptions go too far. Rick Warren, however, seems to be avoiding tackling the subject directly. Although he cut ties with Ssempa, the popular preacher released a statement to Newsweek saying, “It is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations.” That position irks the Rev. Kaoma, who is an Anglican pastor with the Archdiocese of Boston. Warren, he says, has immense influence among Uganda’s political Ă©lite, counting many parliamentarians, including the country’s First Lady Janet Museveni (who is reportedly close to Ssempa), among his friends. “He eats with them, he knows what goes on, they respect him,” said Kaoma in a conference call. At the very least, Warren could get his purpose-driven nation to reflect on the purpose of this severe piece of legislation.
It’s a shame Warren hasn’t condemned this. Perhaps it is because he is sympathetic? After all, just like my Dad, he does believe the Bible commands the death of homosexuals.
It’s too bad the Bible doesn’t teach better morals, since some people actually try and derive their morality from it.
The first question that occurs is: What about straight people with HIV? Would having HIV and being accused of being gay be enough to condemn a person to death?
The second, more important, question that occurs is: What the hell are these people so scared of? Seriously? What is it about the idea of two men who want to enjoy each others’ bodies that these people find so terrifying?
Fear is the only cause I know of for people to behave with such rabbid, unthinking hatred – and I cannot see any reason why they would be afraid of men having sex with each other.
But of course! That’s the thing about homosexuality, after all: it doesn’t come with flashing cards (like skin color or gender). You can repress anyone you want, because anyone could be a homosexual and lying about it.
The claim is that those homosexuals with AIDS would be put to death to slow the spread of this virus. What they blatantly ignore is 1) the majority of sufferers of HIV and AIDS in Africa are heterosexual and 2) the majority of people in these nations are not receiving the education needed to protect themselves. Case in point: A student in my master’s program is here in the states temporarily from a small country in Africa (I do not remember which one at the moment). He recently shared with us a horrifying story about those in his country. Many have been led to believe that having sex with a virgin will cure AIDS. Because of this many, many young girls are being raped every day in the hopes that they hold a magical cure. Note: these are heterosexual crimes and are increasing the spread of HIV at rates unknown. How legislation can be brought against homosexuals just for being, while such atrocities are happening right under their noses, is beyond me.
“The second, more important, question that occurs is: What the hell are these people so scared of? Seriously? What is it about the idea of two men who want to enjoy each others’ bodies that these people find so terrifying?”
If you truly believe that being gay is an offence against god and will cause you to be eternally dammed then I can easily see how logically then you should make being gay illegal. Of course a simpler answer is projection of your own beliefs onto religious beliefs to justify your own actions i.e. I don’t hate gays but god does.
My God can beat up their god, so my opinion(really just His Noodly word) matters more.
So, they’re rounding up and imprisoning this group of individuals for life, and killing some to set an example. The Pink Swastika, indeed…
Ironic, isn’t it? I had a similar discussion with an extremely left wing guy who I was at uni with the first time around, who came out with this little cracker: “I think all racists should be lined up against a wall and shot”. I don’t think he was impressed with my reply of “So… Rounding up a group of people and murdering them based on their beliefs… Remind you of any particular historical figures?”
We didn’t speak much after that.
Yeah and also imprisoning anyone defending the rights of those people.
True Pink Swastika…
“Pink Swastika” – that’s the first time I ever heard about this. Utterly incredible. A case of the conspiracy theorists becoming the conspiracy itself. I hate to invoke Godwin but the parallels here are just enormous. All they need to do is to add “Jews and Gypsies” to the targeted group, then what is the difference?
This is really bad. I’m half-Ugandan, and to me at least; Ugandans generally aren’t that dogmatic about faith since the civil wars. For the most part they had grown apathetic to the whole idea of religion. Sure they’re Christian/Muslim, but only by default generally. I’d consider it a pretty secular society for the most part.
But this is a total surprise. I knew religious fundamentalism was having a slight revival somewhat in the rural areas and the North, but to go this far? Although most Ugandans would be against the idea of homosexuality, you never heard anyone talking about MURDERING them before. It’s crazy.
Uganda for the most part has been a fairly advanced African country, and the same President Museveni previously publically declared a separation of religion from the state.
In addition this is a retarded bill. If you look at countries like Jamaica and Uganda, they talk about the evils of homosexuality and how it’s affecting the state. But if you really delve deeper, it’s just a ploy to appeal to populism. There aren’t many homosexuals in countries like Jamaica and Uganda; the government and religious figureheads simply whip the people up in a frenzy in order to mask real issues like corruption, poverty, health and war. Apparently Gays are the reason for the aforementioned.
It’s actually very sad for me. You normally see an image of Africa as being a backward and savage place, but for the most part Uganda (well the South has) has remained relatively advanced and made great strides in eliminating poverty and HIV.
To see a modern country like this changing backward perceptions of Africa succomb to this bullshit is very sad indeed.
- Mark Mukasa
“It is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations.”
What ever happened to “injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere?” No wonder the church was complicit in the Holocaust. Of course these pastors/hucksters were all in favor of butchering 100,000 Afghans and Iraqis and “interfering in the political process” of those nations. Truly there is no greater evil in the world than the evangelical church.
Rick Warren is a bitch
“It’s too bad the Bible doesn’t teach better morals, since some people actually try and derive their morality from it.”
That’s going in the quote file.
WOW. I thought a lot of the HIV problems in Africa were spread by the violent militias who enter towns and rape everyone.
Racist cliche much?!
it is not a race issue – except that it takes place in Africa, and therefore would affect Africans. Maybe I’ve seen to many movies.
Depends where you go. And even in those countries with those problems it still depends where you are. I have a friend from Sudan who lives pretty well there in a wealthy neighbourhood. I mean Gabon doesn’t have a militia problem. Either does South Africa or Kenya. A pretty big generalisation there pal.
And AIDS isn’t spread so much by militias, than just ordinary people from the underclass.
Alright everyone, thanks for the education on the different regions of Africa. I’ve heard from friends in the Peace Corps that HIV/AIDS is a problem there – either from the mass migration of people, the militia stuff, or husbands cheating on their wives who then bring it home and give it to them. However I didn’t know where exactly in Africa those things were happening. I fully admit that don’t know much about Africa except what I’ve seen in the movies, so I I’m not up to speed on the individual countries and their militias or AIDS problems. I also never heard that Africa had a big gay population. I’ve learned something today!
“It is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations.”
That’s a pretty half-assed attempt, isn’t it? 1)You comment on the political process of your own nation all the time. 2) While the holocaust was happening, would you have been content in the National Church, or would you have revolted with the Confessing Church (http://bit.ly/8UmxPN)? Your comments imply the former, which is an utter disgrace.
Only if we can implement this law all over the world. And laws that will imprision/kill adulterers, greedy money changers, war mongers, lust mongers, nonbelievers…
And pretty soon, there won’t be too many people left on God’s earth.
Can’t wait till the day that only the handful of true Xtians are left in charge of the world. I would probably shave half an hour off my commute to work with all the evil doers gone off the prison. HAHAHA!!
Looks like Warren has posted an official response. I’m thrilled to eat the words in my comment above.
Source: http://www.alrcnewskitchen.com/eblast/others/091210_rickwarren.htm which I was made aware of via his Twitter account.
Thanks will post on this. Glad he caved in.
Geez, It sure took him long enough. I don’t know about you guys, but I’m abit uncertain as to whether he actually means what he says or he’s just doing this to avoid bad PR.
He means what he says. But, you’d have to take my word for it, I guess :)
I’m guessing it took him some time because he was trying to be careful in his choice of words. Anything he says/said is bound to get scrutinized.
YOU SHOULD SUPPORT THE LAW OR ROT IN HELL.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the loving word of god.
Thanks Chuckie!
Oooh, another crazy godbot! Daniel, I do believe that the post about Pat Robertson has brought out the whackaloons in droves.
wouldn’t the more effective way to prevent HIV/AIDS be sex education and a wider availability of condoms? I went to an evangelical school and they once made us watch a video on how gay ppl can pray themselves straight, and they’d talk about the eternal damnation waiting for the sodomizers… but last time i checked a few of my classmates were still gay.
When will ppl realise that sexuality is not a choice, it just is. Persecuting someone can’t make them change who they are.
Nice thought, but this was inspired by American evangelical Christianity – condoms aren’t on offer.
Based on what I know about African culture and Christianity in Ghana (and I had an African professor from Ghana for a year, so I know a little at least), there’s widespread contempt for homosexuality in Ghanaian culture as it is. Evangelicalism is kind of like adding fuel to the fire, at least in Ghana.
I don’t know if something similar is happening in Uganda or not, but in Ghana, the contempt for homosexuality predates Christianity, although the stream of Christianity that’s growing certainly contributes to it.
Of course it would be more effective to proliferate the availability of condoms… which is exactly why fundies won’t support that. If we actually erraticated AIDS, what would they be able to blame on gay ppl then? Swine flu?
As long as the Xtian bible is believed by anyone, homosexuals will be under threat. Our only way to combat this, without stooping to their own level, is to educate, educate, educate.
well in my part of the world they’ve taken to blaming natural disasters on homosexuals and fornicators… we dont have much of an AIDS issue and you’re right, the fundies do have to find something
What’s your part of the world?
Sounds like the US, although last I checked AIDS was a pretty serious issue here.
Comparing HIV/AIDS in the US to Africa is somewhat like comparing a broken finger nail to having an arm lopped off …
I never made that comparison, Jabster, sheesh.
OF COURSE, the U.S. doesn’t have the volume of HIV+ positive folks as Africa. I don’t live under a rock. But that doe NOT mean that AIDS “isn’t much of an issue.”
It’s worth remembering that the ban on HIV possitive people visiting the US has only just been lifted.
@brgulker
My comment wasn’t a dig at you i.e. I wasn’t saying that you thought the HIV problems in Africa where much the same as the US I was just comparing the scale of the problems.
Fair enough, Jabster. I was assuming it was given where it was situation in the comment threading. Thanks for explaining.
Not a problem … ta and all that
Australia, of course we have AIDS but it’s no where near as widespread here. As for fundamentalist christianity… they do try, but its not that common, my highschool was a rarity. Australians are generally too lazy to go to church.
oh yeh, and with the whole natural disaster thing.. that mainly comes from Indonesian religious figures blaming so called ‘immorality’ for Tsunami’s and earthquakes. Though there were a few Australian Anglican Bishops who have made the same comments about those disasters and this years bushfires.
Lol, we are. It’s true. And I’m really glad for that, otherwise I might have had to go through the sort of painful, family-separating deconversion that I read about on this site.
oh it still happens, my cousins got a little involved in a cult, i stayed at their house once and they wouldn’t let me eat untill i prayed. I was about 3 and didn’t know what praying was, so i wasn’t allowed to eat. They also took themselves out of the real world and only went to work and school within the church, untill they found out that the leader was taking their money… now they’re just regular fundies.
So, nothing’s changed then?
oh no, now they watch tv, how exciting!
As long as the Xtian bible is believed by anyone, homosexuals will be under threat.
If that’s an accurate statement, how do you explain this? http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible
The fact is, there are plenty of gay-accepting and gay “bible-believing” Christians all over the world. The Bible’s not the enemy. Hatred is.
People will use the bible to justify that hatred, to be sure, and some people may even derive their hatred from certain biblical texts. But your statement above is an over-generalization that reduces the complexity of the issue.
You do have to admit that when the text (not the subtext or context, but the actual, plain text) calls for men who lie with men as they do with women to get bludgeoned to crap by big effing rocks, some of the culpability for the continuing prevailing attitudes in the Christian community have to do with the content of the Book.
Which is why I said, some people may even derive their hatred from certain biblical texts. I’m not denying your point.
What I am denying is the specific quotation that I highlighted above, As long as the Xtian bible is believed by anyone, homosexuals will be under threat. which implies that the only way to eliminate the threat is to eliminate belief in the bible. I provided a very well-known Christian, bible-believing church/movements that demonstrates an alternative.
No, you’re right. I didn’t read carefully.
erm … I think it was more the accusation that hatred of gays was only caused only by the Bible and that all of those who “believe” the Bible must hate gays. Now as you know I’m not normally one to stick up for believers but whereas I would be happy to say that Christianity doesn’t help equality of sexual orientation it isn’t the only driver.
Let me say it another way. I read the comment above to imply something like, “The necessary outcome of believing the bible is hating gay people (which directly threatens their safety). The only way to eliminate that threat is to eliminate belief in the bible.”
I’m disputing the word “necessary,” because hatred of gay people isn’t the necessary outcome of believing the bible, and I’ve offered a well-known movement from within Christianity itself that demonstrates that.
What’s strange is that the current Ugandan practice of ABC= Abstinence, Birth Control(females) and Condoms has drastically reduced HIV infection rates to way below the African standard and close to the worlds average.
The Law is just masking other issues that need addressing.
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/06/5/gr060501.html
Uganda needed strong logistic and financial support for fighting HIV/AIDS. The US had that. Then US Christian reactionary politicians decided to impose their wishful ideas onto Ugandan reality. Uganda went with the flow because they had no other choice. The homo cleansing bill is the logical and consequential result of a constant delusional stick-and-carrot activism.
So in a decade we can blame genocide on the American Christians behaving like Nazi’s.
No, you can pretty much go ahead and blame them now.
The raise of America style evangelical Christianity in Africa has also lead to paranoia about witches and witchcraft, like in Salem, Massachusetts in early American history.
During my fundie days, the president of one the Baptist missions group spoke at my church. He advised any one wishing to become a missionary, not to go to Europe. He said the people there had become too educated and it has hardened their hearts to the gospel.
This whole issue raises the fact that reality can be seriously distorted by the uneducated masses, beginning with Republican Americans, who seemed to introduce this idea to the Ugandans. Republican’s creep manifesto on eliminating those who oppose religion with an intent to eliminate anyone who is not heterosexual, is appauling. Millions and millions of people have died in the name of God in our collective human history. I think it becoming amazingly clear who the real pure source of evil is = GOD himself.
LET OTHER COUNTRIES DO WHAT THEY WANT.WE HAVE MUCH TO DO TO IMPROVE OUR COUTRY. PUTTING OUR NOSES IN OTHER COUNTRIES BUSINESS HAS CREATED MANY PROBLEMS FOR US. IF GOD WANTED FAGS HE WOULD HAVE CREATED ADAM AND STEVE ,NOT ADAM AND EVE.
What is with all the yelling today?
Maybe they’re hard of typing?
Well if God didn’t want ‘fags’ then why did he create them?