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32,000 Leading Scientists Signed a Petition Against Global Warming?
January 10, 2010 By 89 Comments
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32,000 Leading Scientists Signed a Petition Against Global Warming?
Unrelated to the video, but the title reminds me of an incident from my youth, where a friend of mine came upon a booth at college for a woman’s group, who was giving out pink ribbons “against domestic violence”. Being sort of a jerkass, the friend made inquiries as to “whether or not they worked”. The women were not pleased.
Kind of like the bra color thing on FB this week? Although, I can’t image awareness can ever be a bad thing…
If the awareness comes pre-packaged with derision as a cost of doing business, it certainly can be a bad thing. The only thing worse for a cause than public non-awareness is trivial or cynical awareness.
Very powerful video.
Unfortunately, it didn’t load or play very well and I have a good broadband connection so not sure why.
Yeah, if Fox is the only “news” channel that will let you on the air, it’s a pretty good bet that you’re talking complete crap! I like the comparison with big tobacco, it puts the issue in the right context.
The wikipedia page for this petition has an outrageous right-wing bias. I’ve just put an edit in it to try and bring some of it back to reality, but damn!
What on Earth are you talking about?
These two paragraphs were pretty prominent:
“The organisers of the petition do not attempt to vet the signatories for accuracy, and out of 32,000 current signatories less that 120 claim to be climate scientists – those 120 have not been verified, however. There is no mechanism in place to prevent false signatories to the petition; repeated claims by its organisers that “32,000 scientists dispute global warming” are therefore spurious at best and an outright lie at worst.
It should also be noted that every major, respected scientific organisation on the planet, bar none, disagrees with the content of the petition. The last scientific organisation to stop disputing anthrogenic climate change was the American Institute of Petroleum Geologists, who issued a statement of concern in 2007 to the effect that man made global warming is real and a threat to the planet.”
That was supposed to be in response to Custador’s “outrageous right-wing bias” comment. I fail comment threads forever.
Better than failing Biology forever.
Yes, those were the two paragraphs WHICH I PUT THERE!!!! And they’ve since been removed, unfortunately :-(
Hmm. Well then, good show, and DAMNIT!!!
LOL …
Flagged as “vandalism” of all things! Colour me disgusted. On the upside, they can’t ban my IP because I’m connecting direct from a university :D
I’m sure you can understand why they will be upset with your malicious insistence to force FACTS on them.
Custador – if you would “shoot from the gut”, based on unthinking and unanalyzed reactionism, and not be so ADDICTED to “facts”, I think you would have far more credibility. At least in the United States. Everyone knows that “facts” are by definition ELITISM, pushed upon an unwilling Fox-News-&-christian-radio-listenin’ population from a biased liberal media.
I agree with Janet maybe you should try amending it in such a way that makes christian end times philosophy coincide with anthropogenic climate change. They will accept it as fact if you can somehow get jesus as a rider, the only problem is that once they accept that they will immediately set out to speed up the process.
Awesome video.
As of this writing, this Winter, there are record snowfalls and record shattering frigid temperatures globally from China, W. Korea, Romania, Spain, Czech Republic, Nepal, Finland, Austria, Norway, Seoul, Germany, Bangladesh, France,The United Kingdom, Texas, Iowa, Massachusetts, British Columbia, Scotland, to Florida, and our “experts” have gone underground because apparently Hell is freezing over. And it appears to me that we have been duped by possibly one of the greatest hoaxes of all time, leaving the believers scratching their heads scrambling to find rationale where there is none.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78schxZ7vZY
Ladrones, do me a favour and learn the difference between WEATHER and CLIMATE before you deign to spout such bullshit. Extreme weather is par for the course for anthrogenic climate change. Stop reading the bullshit which arseholes like the Daily Telegraph spout and read some actual science instead. Get your head around the fact that every single scientific organisation on the planet worth spit accepts MMCC as a FACT – including, since 2007, the American Association of Petroleum Geologists. Even most of the petrochemical companies accept it now. The only people who don’t seem to be able to grasp the evidence are the US public – quel suprise, given the propoganda which Faux News bottle-feeds you every night.
The ever so wonderful Christopher Booker!
“China, W. Korea, Romania, Spain, Czech Republic, Nepal, Finland, Austria, Norway, Seoul, Germany, Bangladesh, France,The United Kingdom, Texas, Iowa, Massachusetts, British Columbia, Scotland,”
So Scotland is no longer in the United Kingdom? FREEDOM!
And I’m curious how the city of Seoul ended up on a list composed of countries. And where in the world is West Korea? Methinks the source is somewhat shaky in terms of credibility.
And where the F**k is W. Korea?
Texas, Iowa and Massachusetts aren’t countries either, so Seoul works I guess.
His Glorious Leader Kim Jong Il has annexed the small country to the west, and is now calling it W. Korea, or the country formerly known as China.
So, it’s winter and there are extreme temperatures in Nepal… did you discover the wheel?
So by your logic we are actually entering an ice age then?
There’s no logic in his position. There’s no thought of any kind at all.
Am I right in thinking that your argument is that all this change in the climate refutes the argument for climate change?
20C here in Greece, feels like spring…
Since you have a Spanish name, perhaps you have heard of the phenomenon “La Nina.”
Here’s why we’re having a cold winter. Not unusually cold, however. My farmer relatives can document many that were colder in the past 4 decades.
Get the facts here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/science/02cold.html
Keep track of Arctic ice conditions here: http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
Also, keep in mind that warmer ocean water means more evaporation, which leads to more precipitation, including snow.
I’m pretty pleased with the cold, myself. Too darn many ‘skeeters’ here in VA. What will the GOP say when one of them gets dengue fever?
Yes the 43 degree Celsius in Australia and many bush fires proves that the world is cooling. LOL
@Ladrones you do realize that watching too many conspiracy sites destroys brain cells because of the addiction? At a certain point the damaged brain cells are so great that you cannot differentiate between reality and fantasy any-more. You can test your addiction by staying away from conspiracy sites for one month. If you cannot stay away for so long than you should clearly start seeing your doctor before it is too late.
I don’t see why you bother Cust. I’m honestly starting to think these people can’t be reasoned with, their fairy world is so much more appealing to them. On a side note, if I were looking to leave the US anyone have a recommendation on somewhere to move? I’m getting sick of being lumped in with a stereotype.
Sorry, I do rather tend to use the phrase “US public” as a short-hand for “Republican, religious-right, Fox Noise believing fucktard”. My bad.
And France is nice. The Cote d’Azur is amazing, as is Normandy and Paris and…. Well, all of it, really!
I wasn’t commenting on that Cust. I really am planning to move. Thanks for your imput.
No worries. I have been to a lot of Western Europe, so happy to give feedback, really!
How is Scandinavia??
Never been to the Scandinavian countries – they’re next on the list :-)
If I were to move out of the US, Canada would be an obvious option (since I can already legally reside there.) but I would jump at the chance to live in Norway or Finland.
Ive heard its difficult to get immigration visas. Plus the language barrier might be a bit rough. I only speak English Spanish and a bit of German.
France, I knew you weren’t a real Enlgishman. Next you’re being telling us you live in Wales … :-)
More seriously … are you serious about France when Germany is only a stone’s throw away. The only other European country, that I’ve visted more than once, that I could consider moving to.
Appart from Spain, of course, I think Italy is not a bad choice
I’ve only ever been to the North of Italy (Milan / Como), and I’ll admit that the place was beautiful (especially Como) – but so many of the people I met were just complete arseholes that it spoiled the whole experience.
The north of Italy is…. well, not Italy, it is a lot more “european” -they are more like german people while the rest of italy is more the mediterranean type.
(…)
waiting for an italian to correct me
Try Australia. As an ex-pat American living in Oz, it was most definitely a step in the right direction.
Scandinavia is awesome, Germany too, but of course, depends what you’re looking for.
I don’t understand the thought process of anybody who denies climate change and doesn’t work for the fossil fuel companies. Why are they so against the idea of climate change is they aren’t making profits? So what is climate change isn’t real? Then we made the world a better, cleaner, more energy efficient place for no reason. Why fight something that will either save your life and your children’s or will at least cause you to pay less money to over the seas oil tycoons.
Can anybody who is against the idea of climate change explain this to me?
Because conservation makes life harder. Honestly, that is the mentality. Also, I find it funny that even W Bush accepted the reality of MMCC yet the ultra right still is kicking and screaming.
Look at research from all legitimate sources. (I’m serious)
I don’t fully understand climate change and therefore don’t feel i should have an opinion on it, but could someone please explain to me how we know that this instance of climate change is man made compared to a naturally occuring event. It is believed that there have been at least 7 previous ice ages, which means at least 7 times where the globe has warmed back up again. So how do we know that this isn’t one of those instances? What makes this different?
For the record, i still believe we should take care of our environment. I just question whether climate change is within our control. What
sorry about the *what* it seems i’m very special today and send while typing…
Amy – short answer is that there are a number of natural cycles that affect the climate, some short term and some long. Despite the cold winter (see Custador’s comments on ‘weather’ and ‘climate’) the current warming trend is going in the wrong direction, and quite dramatically. While I am somewhat skeptical of the predictions of the Doomsday models, I don’t think there is any longer the slightest doubt that MMCC is a fact, and if we want to leave a planet fit for our grandchildren, we need to be doing something about it now.
Amy,
All of the evidence points to a warming trend over many years. The research shows the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere growing since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. The rate of increase of the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is accelerating. No source other than us exists for this excess carbon dioxide. All credible scientists agree that carbon dioxide is a “green house” gas — that is, it warms the atmosphere. Hence, very little question that climate change is happening, it’s happening faster and faster, and we’re doing it.
Amy, you are not supposed to understand it, unless you have spent years studying earth climate, statistics, fluidodynamics, signal analysis and a few other disciplines.
Unless you decide to start studying all the required disciplines, any proof or demonstration will always rely on someone else’s word.
I even doubt that a single person can reach a conclusion such as “CM is anthropogenic” without relying on someone else’s results.
In such cases, rather than investigating the facts themselves, is probably more efficient and reliable to investigate the sources and their credibility.
Ah yes… the little people aren’t supposed to understand it. It is too complex and they may misinterpret the findings. It is better to rely on the experts to tell them what to think. Yet another check mark on my “global warming is a religion” meter.
Holy books
Indulgences
Prophets
Preferred ignorance of the masses
Democracy getting in the way of telling people how to behave
Just because one person here says that it is likely too complex for the layperson to understand does not make it the general consensus. I’m curious what you think are the holy books of Climate Change, because the only texts I can think of which are connected to it are scientific reports based on collected data and calculations, which is a bit different from fables stolen from previous civilisations and politically edited over centuries as we tend to find in holy books.
I do not agree that climate change, or any other topic, is beyond the grasp of the average person. Just because someone has not trained themselves in the field for a decade does not mean they are incapable of evaluating whatever evidence they can get their hands on. Regardless, this is detracting from the point that man-made climate change is a reality. Even if it weren’t, we are running out of fossil fuels, we are poisoning ourselves with their fumes, and we are poisoning the water and earth with radiation, mercury, and all sorts of other crap. Measures to clean up the environment and generate clean, renewable energy should be made even without the ice caps melting as well.
AGREED.
The difference is that there’s no evidence for religion:
CO2 levels are now 35% higher than pre-industrial average – fact.
Man has caused that increase through fossil fuel use and deforrestation – fact.
Increased CO2 increases heat retention – fact.
CO2 levels are higher now than they have been during the last million years – fact.
For the first time in at least a million years, temperature is trailing CO2 instead of CO2 trailing temperature – fact.
The effects of positive feedback will release unprecedented amounts of CO2 in the next fifty to one hundred years – fact.
When it does, we’re all royally fucked – fact.
Just because you don’t understand something does not put it in the same category as superstition.
Also, Jay:
Most things in life boil down to opinions – but not all opinions are equal. Informed, learned opinions are inherently worth more than reactionary opinions which deny the evidence. That’s why nobody takes Lord Monckton (whose degree is in classics, not science, by the way) seriously, whereas the fact that every single reputable scientific body on the planet is worried about MMCC is something you should sit up and take notice of.
Say, every single reputable scientific body on the planet…. That sounds like… Scientific consensus! But that can’t be right, because then the people who deny climate change would be lying to us when they say that such consensus doesn’t exist! OH NOES!
People, on the whole, don’t want to believe they are being lied to.
Jay, my statement was largely neutral.
How did you decided that it supported the IPCC views rather than those of the climate skeptics?
There are 7.000.000.000 people on this planet, it is so unbelievable that humans have no cause in this? On one side we are burning fossiles and the other side we are destroying forests in the Amazon the very tree’s that converts CO2 into oxygen.
We have proven over an over again that we are killing our planet, we poisoning it, we kill our sea we kill the trees birds animals. Is it so hard to believe that we as a human race has also something to do with the warming up?
This is why I think we should start a new type of grave yard. When someone dies, he or she is buried and a tree is planted on top. This way, we can give back to the earth by feeding the tree and contributing to balance in our environment. Putting a rock on top of people just prevents plant growth and water absorption… useless. Plus, wouldn’t you rather visit grandma in a peaceful forest, rather than an open flatland of cement and stone?
Not a bad idea, but it reminds me just a wee too much of that tree from Tim Burton’s Sleepy Hollow.
The Sisterhood do that in Chapterhouse Dune :-)
“I don’t fully understand climate change”
Al Gore explains it pretty well in his movie “An Inconvenient Truth”.
Actually the Al Gore clip is not really scientific. He used too many dirty tricks that you find in typical conspiracy theorist clips, trying to manipulate people. He is not really a reference for this. I think it was some way to get media attentions by using global warming as a bait.
Real climate change is pretty complicated to understand. It is like trying to predict the weather for the next 3 days. very hard to do. But when you measure the temperature over 10 you clearly see a warming trend.
A warm summer in your town does not proof global warming a cold summer also does not proof global cooling. It is actually much complicated, you have to measure all temperatures on land in your town out on the sea out on the volcano’s. Ans here comes the hard part, on top of a big mountain in Africa you might get 10 degree Celsius. Very cold for Africa but maybe very warm for that height on the mountain.
Proof of stupidity is not that you doubt global warming, proof of stupidity is that you flat out deny it and try to replace it with one single reason why it is fake.
One such example deniers claim is that it is because the sun is warming and proof is the planets that warms up. Their stupidity is that 6 planets warm up, BUT all other 100+ planets and objects have no effect of this warming up. How can the sun warm the Earth but not our moon? Duhhhh…
thank you, but it is a proven fact that Al Gore is the most boring man alive… He’s also a little too self righteous for my liking and last time i checked he was not a climatologist. Also the counter to that, i believe it’s called ‘A Conveniant Lie’ makes me question Gore
A Convenient Lie is aptly named – it goes to great lengths to avoid telling the truth. As for Gore, his character has been assasinated at great length by deniers – why? Because they can’t attack the message, so instead they attack the messenger.
Watch and learn.
so we’re meant to be in a cooling cycle, but instead we’re warming, which could only be man made?
Amy, climate change is a very complex topic. I suggest you watchpotholer54′s series on climate change on youtube. Aside from excellent presentation, he’s clear and should be easy to understand. I recommend the first couple on the science, and the latest one regarding “climategate”. The other ones on the media spin are a bit outdated.
Age of Stupid, which is very clearly a one-sided journalistic take on MMCC, nevertheless presents some of the reasons why we should care, and how we could potentially make a difference.
Amy, you might like to read this as a good primer in what MMGW deniers will try to argue and why they’re wrong :-)
Interesting article but I am confused about one of the points that they made, point # 9 says that water vapor is a bigger green house gas than CO2. The skeptics claim that water vapor accounts for 98% of all warming. The counter claim is that water vapor only accounts for 50% of the warming and clouds account for an additional 25%. I thought that clouds were water vapor! I guess it must be some other mystery chemical.
It also fails to mention the positive feedback effect associated with MMCC, I did spot that.
Dave, Water vapor is transparent to visible light, but opaque to infra-red light (same as CO2).
Clouds are made of water condensate, which is tiny droplets of water. A good experiment is just a nice boiling pot of water. Look near the surface, it will be perfectly clear, but a couple of inches over the water white steam will be appearing over the top.
When the 212F steam leaves the pot, it is vapor. When it begins to cool, the vapor condenses. When a vapor condenses is dependent on the amount of vapor in the air, the air pressure, and the temperature.
The reason climate scientists are worried about water vapor is simple. If the earth warms, that will increase the amount of vapor in the air, which increases the temperature. Its called a feedback system.
Thanks for the info Revyloution, I learned something :-)
thanks for the info guys, very useful.
In other news, several billions people (or several thousands scientists) signed a petition for the existence of God…
Argument ad populum, not credible.
The book “the wisdom of crowds” actually points out that when a group of people are given a vote and together those votes are counted to make a decision, they often don’t choose the best option.
Alright, pretty much anyone who is someone in the Climate Science’s is agreed that MMCC is Fact.
So the questions are;
how long do we have, what are we doing to stop its progression, and how do we fix it?
Not long, not nearly enough, don’t rely on politicians.
^+1
So true, Mike
Being cynical about politics may be justified on some level, but it is never constructive. Honestly, we have two basic avenues for collective action: government, in which we have an imperfectly heard voice, and corporations, in which we basically have no voice. It is not in whom you are placing your trust, but rather in which avenue is there an opportunity for approaching the broadest common interests.
You make a good point about cynicism, but I was not really having a go at politicians; more trying to say that we have to make positive choices as voters and consumers if anything is going to change. We cannot expect politicians (at least in a democracy) to make radical changes that will see them voted out next election.
Im pretty convinced that we wont do enough. I think it will take a major catastrophe to turn humanity around at this point.
Our species will most likely survive, and possibly come out of it better off. The down side will be the billions who die from basics like not having clean water.
I think we will see a major shift in how we treat the planet after the Himalayas stop producing fresh water for the nearly 2billion people who depend on the glacial melt. Of course, it will be far to late for those countries, and many island nations will disappear completely.
The cold can be explained because of the gulf stream that changed.
Climate models from 2005 already predicted that this could happen so the global warming could give Europe an ice age. If this is indeed caused by melting polar caps that have a different salt content is only knowable in the next 10 years.
“Freak Current Takes Gulf Stream to Greenland”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/1/6/822520/-Freak-Current-Takes-Gulf-Stream-to-Greenland
Jay,
Deferring to the expert opinions of others does not equate to a religious belief, which at least in the Abrahamic tradition is ultimately based on knowledge purported to be revealed by a supernatural agent.
If you had cancer, would you want to consult an oncologist? If you were a CEO in charge of a complex corporate merger, would you consult with a corporate tax attorney? If your computer at work fails to start, do you call tech support?
In our complex society, we often rely on the expertise of others. This does not make us “little people” but in many cases enables us to make better decisions.
Gore Vidal, once called it The United States of Amnesia…In the 70′s (please check my facts) The big concern was NOT warming…but cooling as in: “The next Great Ice Age.” So I ask all of you alarmists, what happened to this research? Real climatologists…Not those ones with huge government research grants, will show anyone who cares to look outside mainstream media reports, that the Earth is ( based on all historical weather data ) actually in a cooling period right now. They will also be able to show people that the Earth’s Climate has experienced massive heating and cooling eras for at least the last 12,000 years. “Global Warming” as a headline or byline is equal to “Brittany Spears, wears men’s underwear on the weekend.” It simply serves to distract the human sheep from the “Real ” issues.
Why aren’t all people aware that the massive worldwide takeover of native water supplies and natural aquifers by huge water corporations is systematically destroying our planet, and slowly creating deserts??? Answer: The same corporations that own the media outlets are creating this crisis in the name of greed and control. Keep on buying into it if you want, personally my eyes are wide open.
ok, that’s two washed up scientists who knew how to follow the money. What about the others? I mean 172 Nobel prize winners, 9,000 with PhD’s and all the rest? numbers 15x greater than the signatories in the AGW IPCC papers… Many of them suing their names be removed as their work was doctored.
Governments, businesses and big interests pay scientists for a result:-
The result they are paying for.