Christopher Hitchens on Haiti’s earthquake crisis:
We live on a cooling planet with a volcanic interior that is insecurely coated with a thin crust of grinding tectonic plates. Earthquakes and tsunamis are to be expected and can even to some degree be anticipated. It’s idiotic to ask whose fault it is. The Earth’s thin shell was quaking and cracking millions of years before human sinners evolved, and it will still be wrenched and convulsed long after we are gone. These geological dislocations have no human-behavioral cause. The believers should relax; no educated person is going to ask their numerous gods “why” such disasters occur. A fault is not the same as a sin.
However, the believers can resist anything except temptation. Where would they be if such important and frightening things had natural and rational explanations? They want the gods to be blamed. After the titanic eruption of Krakatoa in 1883, the Muslims of Indonesia launched a hugely successful campaign to recruit terrified local people to Islamic repentance. Following the more recent Asian tsunami of 2004, religious figures jostled to provide every possible “explanation” of tectonic events in terms of mere human conduct. [...]
The biggest work of all will be performed by carrier groups and airborne brigades of the United States, the taxpayer-financed forces of a secular republic. The vital next stage—beyond mere charity and rescue—will be to try and liberate Haiti’s people from fear of witch doctors of all stripes and to educate them in the family planning that their country so urgently needs. Let’s see how the various parties of God come out on that.
You can read the whole piece at Slate Magazine.
Of all the ‘new’ atheists, Hitch is my favorite.
We humans spend far too much time addressing the symptoms of unrest, and reacting to its results. In Haiti we have continually sent food aid, medicine aid, and other basic survival assistance. What we need to do is hit the root causes of poverty, education and family planning. Of course both of those things are an anathema to organized religion.
It’s the same in modern countries too. I find it amazing that Obamas approval rating can swing from nearly 70% to below 50% in one year. People don’t educate themselves, they just react. Nothing Obama has done has surprised me, because I educated myself on him before I voted for him. I knew he would be a pro business centrist, so this administration doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. Yet we have statistical evidence that at least 20% of the nation voted for him without having any idea of the policies he actually stood for.
How can we badger people to continue learning? How can we convince them that the unexamined life isn’t worth living? Days like this make me question the concept of democracy, and wish for an Oligarchy of Intellectuals.
These geological dislocations have no human-behavioral cause. The believers should relax; no educated person is going to ask their numerous gods “why” such disasters occur. A fault is not the same as a sin.
- Christopher Hitchens
I don’t believe God caused this Earthquake to happen but i do believe sin kept God from intervening to stop it from occurring.
- The III
That’s patently absurd and a cop-out. So, “sin” kept “god” from intervening to stop it. How lovely for the tens of thousands of people who had not sinned. And how does your…”interpretation” of this event differ in ANY way from Pat Robertson’s? Remember, you started your little tsunami of bullshit by claiming that Patty boy essentially isn’t a true Christian (but you sure are, by golly!) and that his statements don’t represent Christians. so what’s the difference between Patty boy’s creative historical account and yours?
“I don’t believe God caused this Earthquake to happen but i do believe sin kept God from intervening to stop it from occurring.”
That still would make your god a horrible being. Your excuse is pretty lame.
Wow. Your god is fairly powerless if human sin is enough to cause him to be unable to take action in the world. Human actions prevent him from exercising his powers – how can you call that a god?
Or perhaps you’re saying that because humans sin God (who created humans) is unwilling to raise a finger to save them from an earthquake that he knew was going to happen (omniscient) and that he created (he created the world after all, with all of its moving plates and earthquake fault lines). In that case, he’s a sociopath. And what’s the point in worshiping a sociopath? Are you hoping that if you sing his praises long and enough and do what he says he won’t smack you around? That sounds like Battered Spouse Syndrome.
Epicurus put it the best a few thousand years ago: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” Believers answer that question by ignoring it.
At that point god becomes “mysterious” and “has a plan”.
Which is answering the question by ignoring it.
In addition, I hate the “God is mysterious” or “God has a plan” non-answer because it usually comes paired with some variation on the “Humans can’t know the mind of God” non-answer. Which, if it were true, would make every religion false. They all claim that they know what God wants us to do and what the punishment will be if we don’t do it. So they clearly think that they know something about the mind of God. If they can know the torments that God has in store for us – sometimes in excruciating detail – then why can’t they explain the rationale behind the torments in a way that doesn’t make God sound like either a sociopathic monster or a petulant 3 year old?
It’s very plain. He wants mankind to live by his ten commandments. Not by their own rules that are not inline with them but always staying inline with them so they will live peaceful happy lives. Mankind does not, so here we are awaiting disaster once again. No jobs, no money and no hope.
- The III
Don’t you mean the 613 commandments?
No, only the ten found in Exodus 20:1-17. the scribes and Pharisees added all the rest and Jesus rebukes them for it in;
Matthew 15-9
9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
You do realize that the “ten” commandments that people love to trot out are part of a much, MUCH larger set of commandments–of course, this doesn’t appear to bother you, as you like to cherry pick which parts of the Bible are appropriate and applicable to you and to others. And where do you get that “the scribes and Pharisees added all the rest”? So you’re saying that most of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers AND Deuteronomy *aren’t* divinely inspired?
So you DO know the mind of God. Excellent – someone who will admit to it.
Now, explain the solution to Epicurus’s quandry in such a way that doesn’t make God out to be either ineffectual or a monster. Since you have a keen insight into the mind of God surely you can explain how God isn’t a monster.
(Of course you could be a follower of the god of Calvin, in which case your god is a monster and you’re comfortable with that. If so that’s fine – I don’t expect Calvinists to be able to defend their god from the accusation that it’s a monster any more than I would expect it of Fred Phelps.)
This is our belief and why God is not a monster. God’s love and compassion is for all mankind here and at the judgment. That once he/she is given the truth, Just as everyone will that has been deceived, he/she will receive it, accept it and enter into the Kingdom Of God and everlasting life. The wicked today will still be wicked then. Contrary to popular belief you do not die and go to Heaven or a place they call hell were you burn forever. You die and then the Judgment. If you do not want to submit to the authority of God you will not be given an immortal body but you will have a body of flesh just like you do now. They are cast into the lake of fire and burn to ashes (Malachi 4:3) just like our martyrs were to light Nero’s gardens and at the stake through out history. They will be no more. Dante Alighieri’s fourteenth-century epic poem Divine Comedy is just that a joke. Mankind is being schooled in this life so that when they stand before their Maker they will be shown 6000 years of them having it their way(sin) and that it would have brought them to complete extinction if God had not stepped in at the last minute to intervene and send his son back to rule over them with a rod of iron. So it may look as if God is losing the battle in this life but that could not be further from the truth. Most all who ever lived will enter into The Kingdom of God and have everlasting life. This is why my God is not a monster as the world makes him out to be. This is why I defend the truth. I believe Satan has deceived the whole world from this fact(Rev.12:9). I hope this helps to answer your question.
wow. just…just wow.
and what the hell does Dante have to do with anything? i didn’t know that the divine comedy was part of any religion.
Then you don’t know false religion. google it.
That’s google, Dante Alighieri’s fourteenth-century epic poem Divine Comedy not false religion.
“they will be shown 6000 years of them having it their way”
Excuse me, but where in your bible does it says that humankind has 6000 years old? Because, ya know, “mitochondrial DNA and fossil evidence indicates that modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago”.
What were we doing those 194.000 years without sinning?
Agriculture, ceramic and some Ziggurats are older than that!
Only Theory. But If you believe the theory to be true that is your truth.
Nuclear and mitochondrial DNA are thought to be of separate evolutionary origin.
Mitochondrial DNA
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We believe this: that the creation was approximately 3983 B.C. Notice some of the math:
Do Genesis 5:3-29 and 7:11 show that 1,656 years transpired between the creation of Adam and the Flood of Noah’s day? (Note: Genesis 5:3 shows that Adam was 130 when Seth was born. Add up the age of each patriarch at the birth of his son, plus the age of Noah at the time of the Flood)…
Do Genesis 11:10-32 show that 427 years passed between the Flood and the death of Terah, which was the time that Abram left Haran (cf. Acts 7:4)? Was Abram 75 years of age when he left Haran? Genesis 12:4…
How old was Abraham when God made the covenant of circumcision with him? Genesis 17:1-10. Had 24 years passed since he left Haran? (Note: A careful comparison of Genesis 12:4 with Genesis 17:1 will reveal Abraham’s age at the time of the covenant)…
According to Galatians 3:16-17, how many years passed between the time of the covenant with Abraham and the Sinai covenant, which was the year of the Exodus? (cf. Exodus 12:40)…
How many years were there between the Exodus and the fourth year of King Solomon when the temple was begun? 1 Kings 6:1. (By using secular records most scholars date the fourth year of Solomon to approximately 966 BC)…
If you add the numbers (1,656 + 427 + 24 + 430 + 480 + 966) what would have been the approximate year bc of Adam’s creation?
It is now 2010 A.D., so adding that + 3983= 5993 years but because there was no year zero (for the transition between B.C. and A.D.), this make it 5992. Thus, the 6000 years may be up in about 8- 9 years (and the tribulation would begin before that). However, it is important to note that the Bible shows that the days will apparently need to be shortened:
And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened (Matthew 24:22).
We believe that since God made/recreated the world in six days and rested on the seventh day (Genesis 2:1-3), that humans will have 6000 years to live on the earth under Satan’s influence, but will have a 1000 years to be under Christ’s reign (the original creation of the universe may have been billions of years earlier c.f. Genesis 1:2; Isaiah 45:18). The 6000 plus 1000 years equals God’s seven thousand year plan.
“Only Theory. But If you believe the theory to be true that is your truth.”
If you’re a Musketeer, the truth is whatever you want it to be.
I know I asked for it, and thus the god of Mathematics must be really pissed off with me
You do realize that the “ten” commandments that people love to trot out are part of a much, MUCH larger set of commandments.
Yes, I do. All the other ones outside the 10 were given as physical commandments to govern the people physically and to keep them in remembrance of the ultimate sacrifice to come. These were no longer needed once that sacrifice was made. The 10 are spiritual commandments and though preachers love to run around saying they were nailed to the cross, nothing could be further from the truth. All through our Christ ministry he expounded on these 10 that should be kept. For these are the laws of the land by which the Kingdom Of God will be governed.
That is one hell of a leap in logic. What separates the first ten from the rest for you is a ridiculous bit of intellectual chicanery that isn’t even supported by your religion! How does “Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy” have ANY thing to do with the Messiah/Jesus? You claim that the first ten were “physical commandments”–what, the purity regs weren’t? When Jesus spoke of the law and the commandments, he was speaking of ALL of them–not just the ten that Christians (and whackaloons such as yourself) love to focus on. I ask you again–are you saying that the rest of the commandments within Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy aren’t divinely inspired?
So we aren’t predestined to go to either heaven or hell?
No. You will not find “when will all get to Heaven” idea or term anywhere in the Bible.
Also let me add the term “when you all go to hell(eternal fire were everyone is supposed to burn forever)” that idea or term is not there either.
“I don’t believe God caused this Earthquake to happen but i do believe sin kept God from intervening to stop it from occurring.”
So God does all the good things that happen. He however isn’t responsible for the bad things, he just doesn’t stop them if every single person involved isn’t deserving.
That sounds the sort of level of argument that one of my toddlers would invoke as a three year old when they did something wrong to avoid owning up. Is that really the best you can do and the sort of being you wish to worship?
If you can easily prevent a death and by your inaction that death occurs, you are responsible for that death. End of story.
Why people here even bother trying to rebuke The III’s claim is beyond me. He is on the other side, he is the enemy; you cannot reason with poultry logic like that. Its time to stop wasting each others time!
When debating, one does not speak for the benefit of the opposition. One speaks for the benefit of the audience.
If you can easily prevent a death and by your inaction that death occurs, you are responsible for that death. End of story.
God does not look at death in this life the same way we do. His understanding for what he wants to accomplish for each individuals salvation far exceeds our understanding.
Why should that matter to the one living and dying?
“God does not look at death in this life the same way we do. His understanding for what he wants to accomplish for each individuals salvation far exceeds our understanding.”
A.K.A. “gawd works in mysterious ways”
So do serial killers.
His understanding for what he wants to accomplish for each individuals salvation far exceeds our understanding.
God’s understanding reminds me of those score counters in very old video games that were only assigned an 8-bit register and wrapped back around to zero when the values got too high.
A.K.A. “gawd works in mysterious ways”
Is the big advantage of faith, you get to just make shite up as you go along. This is why debates with the likes of IQ of III are worthless:
C: “My god is all loving”
A: “… er, but his love doesn’t seem much like love to me?”
C: “We can’t hope to understand god’s thinking but homosexuals should all die.”
A: “… but how do you know god wants that. You just said we can’t hope to understand god.”
- “Because I do, so stop persecuting me!!!!111!!!!!”
If you’re a Musketeer, the truth is whatever you want it to be.
That is no true. The sun will rise in the morning and set tomorrow evening. Water is wet, and we must breath O2 to live and breath out CO2 that trees take in to live releasing O2 back to us and so the cycle goes. This is truth, absolute fact and cannot be made out to what ever you want the cycle to be. Just a small part of the laws of nature. You remove any part of that from your life you will die.
“This is truth, absolute fact and cannot be made out to what ever you want the cycle to be.”
You two faced mornic bullshit artist.
Except for the times where you want it to be. When Francesc talks about verifiable facts, its “only a theory” when you want support for something it suddenly becomes “absolute fact”.
Re: Except for the times where you want it to be. When Francesc talks about verifiable facts, its “only a theory” when you want support for something it suddenly becomes “absolute fact”.
“are thought to be” is theory. It has not been stated as fact. If there is any errors in my math please point them out. He doesn’t believe in the Bible so my reply would all be theory to him. Both points were made. So we moved on.
Truth is such a tricky thing.
Trees can’t produce enough O2 to keep all of the animal life on earth alive. Most of the free CO2 gets absorbed directly into water. Algae produce most of the O2 in the atmosphere. All the algae can’t keep up with the amount of CO2 absorbed into the ocean, so it’s becoming more acidic by creating carbonic acid when the CO2 reacts with the salt water.
The sun neither rises, nor sets. Its just an illusion because youre standing on a rotating sphere. But its false to say the earth is a sphere. It’s really an oblate spheroid.
As soon as you know anything for sure, you can be guaranteed your wrong.
Re: As soon as you know anything for sure, you can be guaranteed your wrong.
Sun, water, O2, and CO2 must all be present for human and animal life to be sustained. We can not live without any 1 of the 4 and that is a proven fact. The last guy who tried to disprove it is dead.
You claim that the first ten were “physical commandments”–what, the purity regs weren’t? When Jesus spoke of the law and the commandments, he was speaking of ALL of them–not just the ten that Christians (and whackaloons such as yourself) love to focus on. I ask you again–are you saying that the rest of the commandments within Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy aren’t divinely inspired?
No I did not. I claim the 10 commandments that I pointed out to you before in Exodus 20 are spiritual laws and they are the ones we are to keep today. Every word and law in the Bible are from God . Have I not made that perfectly clear?
You sound like the prosecutor in the movie ” My Cousin Vinnie” “You can’t tell me, because you don’t know! “(joke) Please submit all the laws you are worried about and I will address each one so that you and all the readers will know which applied to their(Hebrews) day back then and which ones are to be kept today and why. And (“Vinnie speaking”) I’am surrrrrrrrrre you will be more than satisfied!”(joke) Now the Sabbath is almost here and I have work to finish. I must go. Talk with ya sometime after sun down tomorrow.
“I don’t believe God caused this Earthquake to happen but i do believe sin kept God from intervening to stop it from occurring.”
Morally there is no difference. If this is your god you can keep him. And while your at it, keep your fatuous and insensitive rantings to yourself, or you might end up in Hell – locked in a small room for eternity with Pat Robertson for company.
he would enjoy that
No, you see, god tried to intervene with his usual tactic: telling somebody to build a boat.
It’s just not very effective against earthquakes.
Well, to be fair “I command you to build a giant bouncy castle” does sound kinda goofy.
Sorry, distasteful joke.
Plain simple, god is unable to stop the earth quake.
Plain simple, god is unable to stop the earth quake because god doesn’t exist. (fixed for ya)
[stop re-posting things and preaching with the bible. this is your final warning. -df]
Yeah, Bible quotes are very useful to hide behind. It’s obvious that you’re simply ignoring the questions Roger, Francesc and Jer just asked you.
As I said – believers answer Epicurus by ignoring him. It’s the only answer they have.
As for Bible quotes – I like Bible quotes. The Bible says a lot of stuff. Here’s one from Isaiah, since “The III” seems to like it so much:
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
That’s from the NIV translation. Perhaps it’s a bad translation and the good old King James Version would be a better one:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Hey, it’s the Word of God, not me.
And as for why God would do all of these things, well, Job 40-41 provides an answer – “Because I can if he wants to and you don’t have the power to stop me. Might Makes Right. Neener. Neener. Neener.”
Yep. And in the Bible God sends all kinds of disasters — the flood, the plagues, the famines, and threatens them all time through the prophets. To say God couldn’t intervene is pathetic, he did it all the time in that those old myths.
My statement was not to be taken as he couldn’t but that he wouldn’t
– The III
So he’s a monster not impotent.
No, He is not a monster. Mankind says leave us alone,there is no God or we don’t want your rules. So you have been left alone. No interventions for those who do not know their God unless he deems otherwise. He is God the Creator, He does what he wants with his creation. You say He could not stop it, I say He chose not to stop it.
so what about all those churches struck by lightening or some other disaster?
So god is guilty of mass criminally negligent homicide (many times over)? Good thing he isn’t bound by our laws … or his own for that matter. What good are his rules and commandments when he refuses to follow them himself? You think after existing … well forever … and experiencing all time, etc., he would have realized that “do as I say, not as I do” is the worst parenting/governing strategy.
Sounds to me like your god is the mean-spirited one. Any being who could prevent such horrific suffering and purposefully chooses not to is a sadistic tater hole! What you’re saying is that your god essentially said “fuck you and your innocent little children” to the people of Haiti.
No, that is not what I am saying. I’m saying that is what mankind is saying to God. The news show how they treat each other and their children. This is mankind doing it not God.
As I said – believers answer Epicurus by ignoring him. It’s the only answer they have.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
God created Satan a free moral agent(free will). Satan brought sin(evil) into the world because he chose to rebel and transgress God’s law. Therefore God’s creation brought forth evil.
The definitve proof that there is no god is that such a despicable piece of shit like you can claim to speak for him, and he doesn’t kill you inmediatly.
I could not agree more. If there was an all-knowing, all powerful God, he would look at fundagelical arseholes and kill them off instantly.
When asked about God may the Bible be used to answer for God?
- The III
Yes, but don’t go overboard. We quote the Bible quite a bit to make points, but you’ve gone over my tolerance level of preaching with it. Quoting your holy book and signing it “—God” isn’t going to further the conversation.
Ask yourself what your purpose here is, and how can you accomplish it. If, for example, it is to convert us, then you’re out of luck, because I don’t allow evangelism in the comments. But if you want to interact with those who don’t believe, share knowledge, and have interesting conversation, then think about what might be a good way to do that.
As hopefully you’ve noticed, just quoting your holy book doesn’t work. I know you think it’s magic and can change hearts by the power of it’s words. But that doesn’t work on us evil, God-hating, baby-eating, kitten-loving atheists. Many of us know the bible, it’s history, and can quote bible verses just as good as you. Hell some of us have even studied theology, FSM forgive us.
We are convinced by evidence and well-reasoned, intelligent arguments. If you cannot provide those, then please don’t bother. Holy texts do not sway us any more than quoting the Koran or Book of Mormon would sway you. It also gets annoying and exasperating after a while.
After a while? How about, “after the first time you do it and expect the magical words from your text o’ woo to somehow change our minds”? ;-)
I’m not here to change your mind. I’m here to present my case. My truth as opposed to yours.
And a poor job of that you’ve done!
Truth … it doesn’t mean what you think it does.
Thank you. I am here to debate and present the opposite side. I am not trying to convert no one. But at the same time I think “Fuck you and your God” is just as much out of line as well as other mean spirited comments. All I’ am asking for is a civil debate from your side as well. Am I wrong for wanting a level playing field?
- The III
The nifty thing is that we don’t have to care what you think about what is in and out of line.
So, we don’t.
Also, there is no level playing field. You have a pile of bronze age superstition and no education beyond it. Debating you is like beating a rock with a baseball bat. Perhaps invigorating for a brief time, and could even be considered exercise if done in moderation, but you’re never going to make the rock smarter.
Cherry picking a comment after obtuse responses and red-herring arguments and then whining about “a civil debate”…nice. Never seen *that* before ’round here. You write as though no one read your missives in the Haiti thread. When directly asked to present evidence and proof of the existence of your deity, you started throwing around Bible verses–as though your deity itself wrote them. It didn’t. When confronted with the various interpretations of texts–and the history of your own Bible, you discounted an entire arm of Christendom as though it was the spawn of your imaginary netherworld fiend. Until this cloying “plea” for civility (pot, meet kettle), you’ve written rants with an astounding degree of incomprehensibility and seemingly willful ignorance.
Here’s your level playing field: provide evidence and proof of the existence of your deity without referring to a text that tries to self-authenticate. In other words, no Qur’an, no Torah, no Christian Bible. If your deity favors you, you should be able to do this with no sweat, right?
But at the same time I think “Fuck you and your God” is just as much out of line as well as other mean spirited comments.
I’m looking through the thread. I don’t see any comment remotely like this. Perhaps someone has silently deleted it, but that doesn’t usually happen around here.
But just fyi – on any forum anywhere on the internets if you try to argue by dodging questions you’ll end up get ridiculed. It doesn’t matter if you’re debating religion or if you’re debating how many words Klingons have for war. Dodging questions or posting non-sequitors or posting cryptic short “answers” that don’t actually say anything is a good way to generate insults in general on the internets.
He’s referring to the other thread – the Haiti one. I know because I said that.
I also said that in reply to a guy who first his first post as this:
It was out of line of me. But then, I have little patience with idiots who only have condescending, hateful thoughts towards other people. Mea culpa.
That is right. 2 wrongs do not make a right. I was making the mistake of trying to speak your language of intellect with only my language of faith. Same mistake made by the others. Daniel most wisely pointed this out. we say verses God says, as opposed to we believe verses we believe was going no were. Thank you Daniel for putting discussion back on track and for your wise council.
Dodging questions or posting non-sequitors or posting cryptic short “answers” that don’t actually say anything is a good way to generate insults in general on the internets.
I’m sorry you were left out. I’m trying to get to every ones questions the best I can. The questions being asked can not all be answered with one liners.
What is your question?
I’d say the title of this blog makes its bias pretty clearly. So expecting a level playing field is pretty naive on your part.
I would say my presents here is anything but naive. You choose to talk about God. Lets talk about Him. You give your negative of God I will give the positive of God.
The Positive aspect of god: god does not exist.
The Negative aspect of god: It’s followers.
We’re done here now?
You answer for God – proof of solipsism if proof were needed.
You answer for God – proof of solipsism if proof were needed.
So are you saying my answer for God is your philosophical theory that the self is all that you know to exist? For we believe in the spirit world as well as the physical not within ourselves but we look outside ourselves for truth.
@ THe Ill – Thank FSM you finally stopped signing off under your posts. Your name is at the TOP of the post already, we’re not blind. Does that annoy anyone but me??
Well, yes, but I was too busy being annoyed by the meaning of his words to care about the signing.
:-p
Was there a meaning? I thought it was just jibberish and plagiarism…
*sighs* You’re not too bright are you? You claim to be speaking for God. Thus you claim wisdom and insight into the mind of God. You also claim God is the innefible creator of everything. But to still know what her opinions are. Therefore…. Actually, you know what? I can’t be arsed to explain this to you any more. You’re a retard. Get over it.
Actually, you know what? I can’t be arsed to explain this to you any more. You’re a retard. Get over it.
So your statement is you you don’t like retarded people. Did we get that right? See how you twist and turn the truth to try to make it say what you want it to. Is this how it is done?
You’d think that with such an omnipotent being, it would be able to speak for itself without benefit of millennia old collection of unreliable texts and even less reliable interpreters.
You’d think that with such an omnipotent being, it could speak for itself, and wouldn’t have to rely on the less intelligent of its creation to disseminate its word.
Then again, wasn’t it the tree of ‘knowledge’ that got us in trouble in the first place? What a handy justification.
You’d think that with such an omnipotent being, it would be able to speak for itself without benefit of millennia old collection of unreliable texts and even less reliable interpreters.
That is the way God chose to communicate to us in this modern age. His choice, not mine. I chose not to question it but to only understand and believe it.
Well then he chose a really stupid way of doing it.
I could think of about a million other ways to communicate my message to the whole world were I an omnipotent being, and they would actually, you know…. work.
Ah, but God doesn’t want it to work; otherwise, what need for faith?
Their god is malicious: he wants people to believe even when they’ve no reason to – and when, in fact, he seems to discourage it actively. It makes me think of the psychopath from Saw: he wants to “teach people” but goes about doing so the worst way possible.
The vital next stage—beyond mere charity and rescue—will be to try and liberate Haiti’s people from fear of witch doctors of all stripes and to educate them in the family planning that their country so urgently needs.
This statement is politically incorrect but it is also true. I have known people who have worked in Haiti. The level of superstitious belief there is unimaginable. And to quote The Pretenders, “When you own a big chunk of the bloody third world, the babies just come with the scenery”
Hitchen’s says is best as usual. I wonder whether he heard about Pastor Danny Nalliah’s “explanations” of the Victorian bushfires.
Why is Satan so hated? The dude killed like 10 people in the whole bible. God on the other hand… Wow. He killed millions with his wild mood swings and devastating global disasters.
I don’t care if he loves you ‘unconditionally’, he’s still a murderous child who can’t control himself.
The moral of the Bible: Love people and yourself so much that you have to kill them, even if your own son.
Interesting point… maybe he’s put there to present us with a choice, and some sky-being expects us to make the intelligent choice, which is obviously to follow satan as he is the better example. All those people blindly following the murderous god are screwed!
Our truth of the Bible: If you transgress God’s law in this life you will die, all have transgressed,except God’s Son. He died as a substitute for our transgression to pay the penalty required by a Holy and Pure God. This so that we may have everlasting life in the next life.
Hitchens needs to have a talk with Danny Glover.
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/pact_with_gaia/
Just like Satan, global warming gets blamed for everything. Maybe Satan needs to turn down the thermostat in his office.
Also, I do not condone The III’s comments about God.
JonJon, I’m not surprised. I’ve rarely found two people who attend the same church who have the same definition of what God is.
Also, while I still find belief in god/s childish, Jonjon himself never strikes me as childish. He has also read a book other than the bible, and actually thought about it. Makes a huge difference.
I wasn’t trying to be insulting, just an observation.
I don’t find belief in the supernatural childish either. The human brain is a very malleable organ, and it can fool itself easily. We’ve spent centuries selecting ourselves towards that kind of thinking, so its no surprise to me that most people are susceptible to falling into those patterns of thought. I’ve never had to deconvert myself, but watching the process in others shows that it takes a great deal of time and mental will. While I think that all religions are false, I think the human condition shows that our brains seem adapted to placing supernatural causes on events that can’t currently be explained.
It’s probably the most difficult thing for a human to do, admit that you know nothing. As a certified ‘know it all’, I’m acutely aware of this myself. Once you can let go of your knowing, then it opens up a world of possibilities for learning.