Pretend you could predict the future. You know that in a few hours from now, a loved one will be robbed and raped. Would you call them now and tell them how to avoid it? Or would you wait until it was happening and then call and say, “I love you, but you’re going to be raped.”
It sounds strange, doesn’t it? Most of us would even call an enemy to help them in that situation. Anyone who would call while it was happening would be psychotic at best and psychotically evil at worst.
But if it’s Jesus who does it, he’s praised.
Hettie Brittz, wife of gospel singer Louis Brittz, was raped by a robber. She says that Jesus told her she would be raped, but long after she could do anything about it:
Later the robbers took [her husband] away. One stayed with Hettie where she lay with her hands tied, half under the bed.
She said while she was lying like this, she heard the Lord tell her: “Hettie, you are my bride”.
She answered: “Yes, Jesus, I know.”
She said the Lord then told her that the man would rape her but not hurt her. The rapist was also not violent.
Too bad Jesus didn’t tell her that an hour earlier. Maybe he was busy making a table or something.
I’m glad she isn’t bitter and is able to move on, but I wonder if she’s just glossing over it because of her Christianity. The reality is going to hit her at some point. Then again, perhaps her faith is the only thing keeping her from a complete breakdown.
Wow, it must have been divine intervention. After all, there’s no reason why a woman tied up in her bedroom by people who have broken into her home might possibly suspect that they might be raped, is there?
Not to mention that dissociation is a common psychological coping mechanism during trauma.
Yeah it does sound like she is just giving some kind of credit to Jesus for what she herself probably came up with.
Instead of telling her, he could have told the police. Then he may have deserved some credit…
Very sad.
“She said the Lord then told her that the man would rape her but not hurt her. The rapist was also not violent.”
Man, I hate this religion.
the act of rape is violent.
Why didn’t her god smite the rapist? Her all powerful, all loving deity–the one to whom she’s devoted her life–just tells her she’s going to be raped and doesn’t intervene to save her? Ugh.
Maybe their god believes he is a gay trying to turn straight.
“Both she and Louis felt sorry for the rapist. They thought he was pathetic. He probably had never experienced the love of a woman.”
What a blessing! We would never have had the opportunity to hear about the wondrous Glory of God if He had told her she was going to be strangled to death instead of raped. Doesn’t the Lord work in mysterious ways?! I think there is also a lesson to be learned here: Jesus likes to watch.
More thoughts cometh to mind…
—-
Bride of Jesus, consummation by proxy.
—-
And Jesus saith unto the Father, “I’d hit that, if I only had wood!”
—-
All tastelessness aside, rape is horrendous. I have the utmost compassion for anyone victimized by this brutal act. It’s sad that a do-nothing Jesus is the best comfort Mrs. Brittz can find.
I had a “similar” experience. My car was sliding downhill on some ice and there was a bunch of cars piled up at the bottom. Jesus told me, “you are going to have an accident.” If he hadn’t said that I never would have known to buckle my seat-belt in the 5 seconds I had before I hit them.Without jeebus it could have been much worse for me.
Anyway, I’m glad she was able to begin an escape to a “happy place” cushion the mental trauma and survive the ordeal and can get the help she needs.
I don’t get why she thought Jesus telling her right before it was going to happen was a good thing. Or why she isn’t furious with the ‘Prince of Peace’. Poor woman, I hope she gets some help.
Oh, I know this one!
IT’S ALL PART OF GOD’S PLAN.
Remember it’s just like a parent child relationship where the child has to learn the hard way. I mean which parent hasn’t let their own child be raped in the name of teaching them a life lesson?
IT’S JESUS’ WAY OF SAYING I LOVE YOU.
WHETHER YOU WANT IT OR NOT.
It’s one of the ways that a certain section of believers piss me right off. Claiming god’s love it like a child parent relationship but when it pointed out that it’s nothing like a loving parent would act, coming back with god’s love is different and we are to limitd to understand. Well if it’s fecking different then stop describing it as love because it obviously not a form of love us mere mortals would expect …
This. So very, very much. As I’ve always said, if God, then Cthulu.
Yeah, it’s funny how the standards of “love” for god or jesus is so much lower than what we would expect from people. Whose ass do I have to kiss to get away with the sh*t they get away with? They get to kill, rape, main, and steal. God is a “jealous god” (it pisses me right off when my boyfriend is like that, but at least he doesn’t boast about it and has the grace to apologize). And jesus gets to hold the hand of someone he could have helped, and then gets all kind of kudos. Srsly, where do I get a gig like that???
I’m sure we’ve all done that, as parents. I also taught my child not to play in the street by having a Mac truck run over him. And I arranged for him to be kidnapped and molested by the neighborhood perv to teach him to call me regularly and stay in touch. And, then there’s the popular “holding the kid’s hand to the hot element” to teach him not to touch it. Just regular, lovin’, parent stuff. Just like good ol’ jesus.
If this is what it took for her to get through a horrible ordeal, then I can’t really fault her. And if she is happier going through the rest of her life believing God or Jesus somehow helped her through that, rather than “facing facts” and going through painful therapy and so forth, then why not? It’s a spiritual placebo and I am not about to rip on anyone for using whatever tools they have to handle such a traumatic event.
That said, if she starts trying to counsel other rape victims by bringing in the Jesus, then I’d have a major problem with it.
“That said, if she starts trying to counsel other rape victims by bringing in the Jesus, then I’d have a major problem with it.”
Bingo! Why do you think she spoke out about it publicly? Why are there articles being written about it? Why is she spreading the “testimony” of her rape during which she closed her eyes and became the bride of Jesus? This is her new calling and yet another opportunity for her and her husband to pass the collection plate.
I do wonder how she’d be able to actually use that example as a testimony of faith and God’s goodness. Surely another rape victim who hears that is going to be wondering where this wonderful Jesus was when they were being raped. I think her elevated status in Christian circles, and in the church must be an awful pressure on her, as well as the psychological trauma of being raped, for her to come up with this delusion.
I think any rape victim who hears this could very well be horrified if not offended. Mrs. Brittz, however, has deluded herself into believing this is a good testimony of her trust in god and his faithfulness to her.
This is a good example of just how harmful religion really is. Instead of dealing with her trauma in a manner which might actually help her cope in the long run, she reaches for the quick cheap fix of Jesus and then passes him along as a viable cure-all to the next queued gullible person in crisis with unmet needs.
It boggles my mind the way religious fervor and devotion seem to spread like wildfire among humanity. It frightens me to see just how many people willingly engage in the permanent suspension of disbelief. They wholeheartedly stop using their own minds, intellects, and skills of logical reasoning to instead embrace ancient stupid stories and beliefs concocted by superstitious primitive peoples who thought the earth was flat
I am disgusted by this whole thing, and endlessly entertained at the thought of her eventual breakdown. It will happen. And it will be beautiful when it destroys her faith in “god”.
Unfortunately, some people break the other direction, and become so obsessed with religion it borders on illness.
I’ve met a few of them.
I blogged about this here http://zeekeekee.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/god-told-me-id-be-raped/ a couple days ago when the story broke here. Rape is an awful problem certainly not limited to South Africa, but when you look at the statistics here, it’s even more disgusting that people can believe in God like this, and one they describe as ‘loving’ too. It’s frightening to think a loving and just God is one that doesn’t have the moral or emotional conscience of a human being. I can think of no loving husband who, if he’d had the ability to stop the rape from happening, would have instead sat and held his wife’s hand while it happened. The idea that God keeps one woman out of 1.7million rape victims ‘safe’ – that includes children – makes absolutely no sense and should disgust anyone. Religion, and religious justifications are inhumane. In the article she goes on to say she is a qualified therapist and so she knows people will be saying that she’s making these claims as a result of trauma, but she ‘knows what she heard’.
Very well said.
Oops, sorry, I didn’t see the link rule until after I’d posted! D:
Something like this happened to me. I dropped the soap in a communal shower and as I bent over, Jesus told me “You’re going to be raped, but it’s ok. He’ll shout surprise.” Thank you Jesus. At least I know it was just surprise sex.
“Bride of Christ?” I thought that moniker was exclusive to Catholic nuns, and indicates worldly celibacy. You can leave your husband and take religious vows, but you cannot be a “bride of Christ” while cohabiting with a man. In many orders, novices go through a ceremony where they exchange a white dress and veil for a dark habit, have their hair cut short, and receive a new name which may include the name of a male saint. I don’t think you will find any videos of this private (family sometimes allowed) ceremony, but it does resemble a medieval wedding.
Using this term implies to me that her marriage is celibate.
Guess that jebus guy likes threesomes.
This whole thing is so sick, so obnoxious, I don’t even know what to say. Assuming he actually existed, what kind of sadistic pervert “jesus” sits back, warns her but doesn’t do anything to stop it, then minimizes the trauma by saying the rapist won’t “hurt her”????? Since this is actually all coming from the woman’s subconscious, this is the crap she’s been fed by this crazy, violent, black-is-white and up-is-down cult of a religion.
Reading this article makes me sick to the gut.
What disturbs me is this underlying feeling of HIV/AIDS denialism I get from it.
The contrasting tone is just subtly masked by the subtitle, but nevertheless conveys a
So the rape, a violent act in itself, was not too violent, so that’s… good? But doctors trying to ensure she didn’t contract an STD from her aggressor are making her feel bad?
What? Jesus didn’t speak up and tell her the Dr wasn’t going to hurt her.
What does jesus have against Dr’s.
I think jesus is a little intimidated by doctors. When people are praying to jesus in the hospital chapel, really it’s the doctors doing the actual WORK. Jesus knows he’s a fraud, and it makes him insecure. Why WOULD he support a doctor? Plus, doctors believe in all that science, & facts ‘n stuff, that makes jesus look kinda bad, and the bible look kinda stupid. I’m with jesus on this one – if I was outgunned like that, I’d be a little cautious too.
True. When doctors save a life and their patient thanks Jesus for their survival. Jesus gets to go, “Aw Yeah, in your FACE you Doctor Man, thinking you’re so smart! (crotch pumping the air)”
Yeah, it’s a pretty good gig for the J-man – no guts, all the glory….where do I get a job like that????
This woman was trying to cope. That’s all. If it wasn’t Jesus then it would be something else. The only constructive advice is for her to get to a psychologist as soon as possible and not to remain passive. It will come back to haunt her is she doesn’t. No church is prepared to handle a trauma like that.
perhaps this was meant to test all of us and our response. we WILL all be held accountable for what we say and think in the end. think about this for a moment, the kjv Bible…living Word of GOD has NEVER been disproved EVER and not for lack of trying either, so consider these 2 scriptures if you want Mathew 7:21-29 and Mathew 12:36-37 i’m not forcing you, if you believe you are in control of your own destiny then i suppose you have nothing to worry about.
Yes, a woman being raped to test whether humans are devout enough sounds about right for the bastard Christian’s worship.
I’d be terrified of him if he weren’t fictional.
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.
>:(
Its like any chance you get to bash on our Lord Jesus Christ who died for everyone of you, you take it, and knowing that others non-believers will jump in too comforts you. But really, be afraid because your life is shorter them you think. And Death will come apon you…..what then?
Oh thats right there is no God, so if there isnt, im living a good life with peace and when i die……well what? do you just dream forever? o wait you won’t because your brain cells die off,
then what? its just nothingness? creapy, think about it. You can have your comfort right now with your groups of people that agree with you so everyone feels confident. Well your going to find out arent you. You are going to die and no one will help you or stand up for you then, but hey, after death is something we can just take a chance with.
But if you just believe that Jesus died for our sins then your saved from whatever lies in death.
Fundies are kinda cute when they threaten you, in a pathetic kind of way.
THey are about as cute as a Psychopathic 4 year old with a Hamster and a pair of scissors.
You don’t need all that text. You could have said: “Pascal’s wagger” and then we would have understanded all what you means. Accordingly, I could repeat the arguments why no one rational person should accept this wagger, but I’m pretty sure you will find them if you are interested.
“But if you just believe that Jesus died for our sins then your saved from whatever lies in death”
Ok, I couldn’t resist: except if jews are right and then you are following a false god.
I feel justified in giving a big ‘fuck you’ to this arrogant moron. Aw, dang, just noticed the time stamp, he probably won’t be back. Ah well.
Daniel, you too will die. What then?
Some people just can’t accept reality. You too will die Nick, and then what? What is wrong with living your life and dying and other people living and then dying? How is it creepier to be dead forever than it was to have never lived until you were born? There’s no real “take a chance” with it, it’s just that you believe in a fairy tale and are easily manipulated by ideas that suggest dying is too final, too creepy, so invented a fictional attraction called heaven and a threat called hell so you obey fictional rule books.
No wonder the rule is no evangelising. Only a fool would think He has the answer to all the skeptics questions. However I am of the opinion that a person is far wiser to place his confidence in the eternal Son of God than some egotistical skeptic that thinks he knows it all. And is unable even tell me which came first the chicken or the egg.
Eggs precede chickens by a few million years.
Was you there Nox? Perhaps you can inform me as to what laid the egg and also who put the ingredients in an acorn in order for it to become a forest.And how did DNA arrive on the scene! And do the pseudo scientist still believe that the big bang theory is a fact?
LOL!
Nox, if you would have said, “God did it.” August wouldn’t be asking all those follow up questions.
It’s always amusing to see believers acknowledge that science has more explanatory powers on how everything works instead of, “Magic Man did it.”.
It’s one of the many things that believers do that annoys me … sit there sneering at evidence that they don’t understand and then when asked for thier reasoning just trot out goddidit as though that trumps the requirement to explain how goddidit or indeed supply evidence that goddidit.
Of course this is closely followed by god’s version of love and good is not the same as ours that’s why it’s different when he murders people – it’s for their own good don’t you see, just like a parent child relationship – if your child mis-behaves why wouldn’t you kill them?
Is it Sunny Day or Funny Day? You say,”It’s always amusing to see believers acknowledge that science has more explanatory powers on how everything works instead of, “Magic Man did it.”. Not so! It has been my personal observation that when I attempt to discuss these things with an agnostic or an atheist. It is like asking a color blind person to describe a rainbow. They Just can’t see it..the only god they recognise is their own ego.However we continue to reach out to them in love and pity. Because there but for the grace of The omnipotent Christ go we.
If the make believe god you worship was so self-evident you wouldn’t need missionaries and there would be no other religions.
A color blind person can detect and describe a rainbow. That’s because rainbows actually exist.
The evidence for your farie tale, not so much.
I’ll tell you what why don’t we talk about how you believe this all happened?
Obviously your questions are rhetorical. You’re not interested in hearing the answers.
Your attitude can be summed up by this comic strip.
Probably not. But luckily, many real scientists do.
Was you there Nox?
Were you?
*Oh, btw, Moses wasn’t there, either. How can you know he (or the actual composers of Genesis) was telling the “truth”?
“How can you know he (or the actual composers of Genesis) was telling the “truth”?
Because Jesus said so, He is the way the truth and the life. If you do not believe it,just ask Him. You will believe when the Holy Spirit convivicts and convinces you. From that point on you will either recieve or reject if you reject you will be holding the truth in unrighteousness.
Because Jesus said so?
No he didn’t.
Why is it every time I see someone who claims the bible is the word of god, it turns out they’ve never actually read their own holy book.
Read John 5:46;Luke 20:28 The first five books of the Bible is the Pentateuch called the Law by the Jews. Get a Dake’s Annotated Reference Bible, He offers 16 Biblical proofs that Moses wrote all five books of the Law. Jesus acknowleged that Moses wrote the Law. If you do not believe that Moses wrote all five books of the law it is not because of lack of evidence but lack of faith. None are so blind as they who refuse to see.
“Read John 5:46;Luke 20:28”
(A) I have.
(B) You clearly haven’t.
(C) Jesus is not the person speaking in Luke 20:28, a sadducee asks this question to Jesus.
(D) If Jesus did say both of these things, that still wouldn’t be an example of him saying Genesis is true. The closest thing to an actual example that you could have used is Jesus’ vague mention of “the days of Noah”.
Luke 20:27-28
27 Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,
28 Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man’s brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
John 5:46
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
These verses have nothing to do with the claim you cited them to support.
“If you do not believe that Moses wrote all five books of the law it is not because of lack of evidence but lack of faith.”
If you do believe that Moses wrote all five books of the law it is because you have not read them.
Deuteronomy 34:7-10 (Moses wrote this????)
7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
8 And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended.
9 And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the LORD commanded Moses.
10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face.
Which brings us back to my earlier question:
Why is it every time I see someone who claims the bible is the word of god, it turns out they’ve never actually read their own holy book?
The 31st chapter of Deuteronomy is always included in the Pentateuch it is either a postscript written by Moses before his death or another after his death. It could have been added by Moses through direct revelation,in the way he wrote about the origin of the heavens and the earth, If not it could have been added by Joshua Read Joshua 24:26 Why is it most every time I have a discussion with someone who claims the bible is not the word of God, they act as though they have read extensivly every scripture in the Word of God? And will most usually claim that the person who has spent nearly a lifetime in study of the Word has never opened the book. Or they will come back with a bunch of vulgar language in an attempt to demean the true believer of the Word.? It is almost certain if they had been in Pillates Judgement Hall on that day They would be shouting the loudest CRUCIFY HIM! CRUCIFY HIM!
Oh, you idiot. The Pentateuch wasn’t written by “Moses.” You clearly have done no study on the composition of the Hebrew Bible–outside of your own lame apologetics, that is. Just google Priestly and non-Priestly sources of Genesis (no, don’t google Jason Priestly).
“Was you there Nox”
My particles were there.
Was your soul there?
No however I was in the heart and mind of God before He spoke the worlds into existence!
And so were you. Believe it or not. It is my firm belieif that one day you will become a believer I hope it will not be too late. God Loves You Jesus Died for You . Consider the cost of rejecting Him as your Lord and Savior. Surely you are not willing to go to hell to prove a point.
But none of those things exist, surely you wouldn’t waste my time with something that doesn’t exist?
Oh wait I forgot who I was talking to. You believe that a god sacrificed himself to himself to protect US from the punishment that he decided we should have through no fault of our own.
Surely you are not about to waste your one and only lifetime, however short or long it may be, on wishful thinking? You can say “believe it or not” about anything:
-Believe it or not, cornflakes are made of cockroach wings.
-Believe it or not, the sky is made of silk.
-Believe it or not, the movie I’m watching on tv was made in the year 2745.
The bible you use for evidence says that it’s true does not make it true. You are basically made too scared of hell to use your brain to think things through, and dumb enough to think that will wash on anyone who knows it sounds ridiculous because it’s not true. Superstition that there’s a god-being we don’t dare try to become smarter than intentionally keeps people willingly dumb enough, and threats of hell, scared enough, to believe any witless remark made in a book. OooooooOOOoooohh! Magic book! Duh! Not use brain, me believe magic book or struck to hell! ACK!
Believe it or not, there is no god but allah and mohammad is hi prophet, consider the cost of rejecting him and his holy word as recorded in the quran. Are you willing to go to hell to prove a point?
Insert similar statement about, shiva, zeus, odin, xenu or any of the millions of other gods worshiped throughout history, how do you like your odds now?
I’ve known Yoav longer than August, so he’s probably right about Islam being the best choice. I don’t see a better way to calculate my odds, do you???!!!?!??
Love how they go on believing they are doing good in the world by encouraging you to believe before it’s too late, threatening you, scaring you for your own good. It’s selfish to believe in anything because it scores higher on some imaginary truth meter, what’s in it for me, etc. Next I would like to hear from August what heaven and hell are actually like and how you get there (transportation-wise, not smart-ass answer like “believe in Jesus”). Logistics. Have you ever booked a vacation and it was nothing like the brochure?
How do you know when you die you don’t fit inside an acorn, and that’s what’s really inside an acorn? Think of it – most everyone loves hardwood floors! Maybe even be a dining room table someday?
Well Kodie, it all starts the presupposition that God is, God by His Soveriegn Grace drops Faith in your heart and you choose to believe,then you grow in Grace to the place that you can say with the Paul the Apostle “…. I know in whom I believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day.” 2 Timothy 1:12. Once you only believed now you know by personal experience because His Spirit bares witness with your spirit, and you commune with Him on a Daily basis. I am totally assured that one day I will behold Him in that blessed bright new land.Not because of my goodness but according to Christ’s merciful saving grace.
I know you’re not smart enough to understand these funny feelings, but you’ve spouted gibberish nonsense hogwash. You sound like a mental patient. Would a god intend for all his followers to sound like mental patients? I like to think if someone invisible had something to say to me, if, for some reason, an omnipotent being who can’t or doesn’t talk or appear should be the case, he wouldn’t send someone like you to convince anyone.
Well Yoav & Kodie,
Jesus would likely say to you, “I set before you life and death choose life”"
I say,” Choose you this day whom you will serve,as for me and my house we will serve the Lord Jesus Christ the eternal Son of God come in the flesh.”
Since most of us already know the stuff in your book is false (And you’ve already misquoted your own book numerous times), maybe you should try to think of some reason besides the bible why anyone might believe the ridiculous bullsh*t you are asking us to believe here.
You are a liar, I have not misquoted a single scripture if you cant state your case without lying like satan, no use to further the discussion, If you honestly feel I have misquoted a scripture name it.
I did not say it was Jesus speaking in Luke 20:28 I said read it, the reason I said read it it proves the Sadducees believed Moses wrot the Law.
Jesus also acknowlegges this in John 5:46 saying,” For had ye believed Moses ye would have believed me; for Moses wrote of me.” The Parisees, Th Saducees, and Jesus all believed Moses wrote the Pentateuch I suggest that you should read 2 Peter 3:16 It seems to me he is talking about folks like yourself that know a few scripture and wrestle them about to suit their own purpose. I do sincerely hope that you receive Jesus as your Savior before it is too late. I will pray for you.
Well, so much for free will.
“None are so blind as they who refuse to see.” -Hinton
Irony detectors are completely broken in this one.
We all serve the little man who lives in the closet over here. He’s really little, like 4 or 5 inches and can’t reach anything, so we bring him everything he needs. One time, I came home and my apartment was painted, and he said he’d done it I said, you can’t even reach the silverware drawer to get a spoon for ice cream. It was amazing. So I brought him a pint of good ice cream and he just climbed in and ate it without a spoon. He’s a really good little man. You can’t bring him ice cream with nuts or chunks of any kind. Well, you can but he can’t put them in his face, and leaves them behind. He’s too polite to say, but he’s very good to us, so I don’t want him to get passive-aggressive and start leaving pistachios in my tennis racket. Remember that time he restrung it? He worked on it all winter, what a surprise I didn’t have to take it to the pro shop come spring.
Kodie, You have a great imagination, perhaps you should take up a career writing fiction for children
Just like the authors of your bible did.
Perhaps you’ve lived a life of neglect for the little man in the closet, and maybe it’s already too late to revive him in your favor. The manual closet man-keeping says then He puts your dirty drawers neatly folded on top of the clean ones so you keep wearing them, while you pray to your idol god and think he keeps you from ever running out of underwear. Little man in the closet – once he’s built a grudge, it cannot be torn down or burned or destroyed. I really hope it’s not too late for you. Your superstitions are leading you on the wrong path. Little man in the closet doesn’t wait until you die. In some accounts in the original language, it says if Little man in the closet bears a grudge on you, you will never die, no matter how much you hope to. Grudgees have miraculously survived such as being hit by a bus at highway speeds, a fatal diagnosis of fatal hangnail, and dropping through the floor of an airline jet over Nebraska or Missouri, somewhere in the middle there and they had to hitchhike back to the city and their shoes were missing, and the sun beat down as motionless in the midday sky for weeks until a car passed. And then that car stopped. When he went to reach for the door handle, the driver went 15 feet and stopped again, and that went on for a while as well. Think of Little man’s awesome powers and how you just don’t want to get on his wrong side. So much better on the right side, I have to tell you, even though you don’t believe me. Go ahead and insult what I truly believe, that it’s not too late hopefully for your chance to believe it too. If I’m not persecuted, I can’t truly commit to it myself, but Little man in the closet is real and I do NOT want to piss him off. He’s not a children’s book character like your Noah or your Jonah, and certainly not the subject of a broadway musical like Joseph, Jesus, and that one with the alley cats… what was that called?
You have such an imagination you believe the fiction of one particular mythology out of so many mythologies, and quote passages from its fiction to people who don’t share your belief in that particular one.
You really are missing the pot-calling-kettle-black irony in your accusations. The irony is so thick it’s humorous.
Well after he has about 40 different folks from various backgrounds many of which never seen each other over a couple of milleniums come up with the same story without a single contradiction. A person might think there was something of the supernatural involved. I do believe at the moment he could be a good evolutionist. They have a theory based on one-tenth dusty bone and nine-tenths imagination, but the thats another story for another time.
You don’t know anything about the proofs for evolution, do you?
And you don’t know either anything about the different gospells wich didn’t pass the cut in the firsts councils. You don’t know that the catholic church choose only four because they seemed the most consistent between them, and that’s probably because 2 of them are based on another one of those four. But even so, they have contradictions. You really don’t know your bible and his story.
I believe you are quite confused here. Evolution is both a fact and a theory much like gravity is a fact and a theory.
The major evidence for evolution is that we have a universal DNA code which shows how we develop based on comparative DNA studies.
Its a lot better than magic because its real.
Plagiarism. Learn the word. It’s just a *tad* better evidenced than magical sky daddy.
Remember its not plagiarism if you credit your source! I had a terrible time with plagiarism once. I linked quotes from a book correctly but didn’t know the book had taken it from a website which was pulled up by the system.
Was terrified about that meeting.
They don’t credit the source. They tell the story as if they were disciples of Jesus, wich they weren’t. Anyway, plagiarism is a term that has became relevant in the last centuries, before that it wasn’t a concern.
Plagiarism is simply quoting some one and pretending it is your own original idea. I doubt if anything we think or say has never been thought of or spoken before, when we are discussing subjects that have existed for long periods of time.The question I always asked is, Who knows who had the view or spoke about it first. We can only honestly say, SOMEONE HAS SAID AND I AGREE SUCH AND SUCH! Dont worry about plagiarizing the person who is given the credit for the original quote or view may have plagiarized.So what, who knows who deserves the credit. We all can learn from one another. If we are teachable and honest with ourselves and Jesus.
Sorry, which book are you talking about? Clearly not the bible.
There is not a single contradiction in the Bible when tken in the proper context I have often talked to Bible critics who claim the Bible is full of contradictions, I then ask them to show me even one. They try and try, in fact one person spent all night searching for one to no avail. I said if the Bible is full of contradictions you ought to be able to locate one almost anywhere. It is kinda like the missing link they just cant find it.
Bats are not birds, there are no four legged insects bar around a very cruel child, the sun does not travel around the earth and the flood did not occur…
The list of things that the bible got wrong is rather large. People interpret it differently to match the real world but that’s often twisting the words to fit.
Key words: “in the proper context”. You can make any disclaimers that you like if that’s how you win arguments. It just means any time someone points out a contradiction, you can say it’s not in the proper context, you are not reading it in the proper context and there are no contradictions in the proper context.
If the bible says 2+2=5, which disagrees with basic arithmetic, you are supposed to infer that the 2s are boxes and the 5 is equal to the contents of all the boxes, each box contains one except one box has 2 so, 5. None of which is described in the bible, you just made up how it can make any sense, i.e., you make up any context and after the fact call it proper. Even if no context is given, in the language, it contradicts, and in the inference of what the proper context is, it may never contradict because you have formed your conclusion ahead of time that it doesn’t, and formed your inferences from the context you invented that it must be so that it won’t contradict. In the real world, that’s called bait and switch, smoke and mirrors, see also: lying. See also: being proud of foolishness, arrogance in foolishness, and why would god communicate so cryptically as to design a foolish text out of the proper context so as you’d have to repair the gap yourself and guess a proper context so as not to disturb your cognitive dissonance? It makes a lot more sense when you grasp these people who wrote the stories without knowing any context. 2+2=5, well it’s around 5. I don’t know how to count and that just looks around 5 or so. A deity of superintelligence would surely be able to count to 5 and not just estimate.
What ever we still refer to the sun as coming up and going down. and the flood definitely did happen. You need to get your nose out of books that only express the vain philosopies of men. Get into the study of the Book whose author is God and has been proven over the years to be the only infallible and authorative Word of God! Surely you do not want to spend eternity in a flaming hell and have the smoke of your torment ascend forever and for ever the choice is yours. I have made my choice His name is Jesus the eternal Son of the most high God. It is by Him the worlds was made. And it is by Him we receive power to become the sons of God! The devil doesn’t like it but I’ve been BORN AGAIN. It happened to me in 1952 I was about 22 years old I will be 82 this May 30 and It has been a great life living for Jesus and soon I will have run my race and be with Him for all eternity. And I hope you repent and join me there!
None of us want to spend an eternity in hell, so it’s a good thing there’s no such place.
and the flood definitely did happen
Evidence, please.
You need to get your nose out of books that only express the vain philosopies of men. Get into the study of the Book whose author is God and has been proven over the years to be the only infallible and authorative Word of God!
The Dumb is strong with this one, I see. Okay, don’t you realize–no, of course you don’t–that your “Bible” also expresses the “vain philosophies of men”? If “God” was the author, then can you explain why all these texts are attributed to–wait for it–human beings? Your “God’s” capable of doing anything…except writing a book using its own name…and doing a good job of it the first time around.
Oh, and bonus question: what did people use before this deity of yours bothered to have its memoirs ghost-written by idiots dumber than Stephanie Meyer?
@ august: You just refuse to read, listen to, or consider anything that contradicts the mythology you have chosen to believe. You are simply (the root word of simpleton) too afraid that the contradictions might be true. If you are capable of following the concept of blog threads, read down, down, and check out the links on biblical contradictions.
Wrong! I have heard multitudes of arguments against that which you in your ignorance refer to as mythology.I have nothing at all against knowledge and welcome an intelligent discussion anytime. However most Bible critics that I have encountered seem to assume that because they have read a few books due to their varying interests that they are now the epitome of brilliancy.And smarter than the omniscient God that created them. I have nothing but the most profound admiration and respect for the person that is truly educated when you meet such a person you will meet a man that that does not think higher of himself than he ought,but a very humble person who knows that what he doesn’t know would fill a much larger tome than what he knows.It has been my privilege to have the associated with many such men. And most all believed in the One true God as their Creator.I resent those that read scripture and twist there interpretation of it in a way that they accuse it of contradiction when there is really no contradiction when properly understood. That is the deception Satan pulled on Eve. Hath God said you will die,Surely you will not die etc.
Read 1 Timothy 6:20-21 ” O Timothy keep that which is committed to thy trust,avoiding profane and vain babblings,and oppositions of science falsely so called. Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee Amen
You have nothing at all against knowledge unless it stands opposite to your faith. We call that applied theology.
No scientist will say that he knows everything. What we keep saying is we know more than your book. The people back then would worship us as gods. Our level of technology is magical to them because the gap is so huge that they cannot possibly see how our technology works.
Again. You yourself keep saying that Jehovah is the one true god. I keep pointing out that the same reason you don’t believe in Shiva is the same reason I don’t believe in Jehovah.
As for our science. You do know it works right? I mean you don’t get to call your discovery a theory unless it can be reproduced by people and these things are tested to destruction. You are not the determinant of science. Science determines what is useful and what is not by testing hypothesis extensively.
Your idea of false science would probably include evolution which is the corner stone of biology. Since the discovery of evolution biology has improved the world saving billions of lives and expanding our life spans exponentially. Without it we would still be dying aged 24 of stupid things like cholera.
It’s an expression. The sun going up and down are expressions, much like the phrase “he was like a lion in battle” meaning he was brave. Not he was a cowardly scavenger who lets all the women do the fighting unless backed up by a pride…
The flood did not occur. If it did then we would have died out. 8 people are insufficient to have any sort of vigour as a species particularly if those 8 were already related to each other. Inbreeding is bad, any farmer knows that. You bring out desirable qualities but also become prone to incredibly bad ones
The vain philosophies of men allow you to spread your superstition using tame lightning on devices made out of fossilised monsters. Your argument is moot. We have exceeded the wildest of God’s abilities. Feed a 1000? The green revolution feeds a billion? Cured a leper? I can cure all the lepers if one gave me enough money to buy the drugs. Gave sight to the blind? We do that. With frikkin laser beams. Blow up cities? We did that twice and decided to never do it again. We actually placed restrictions on our own powers because we never wanted to do something like that again. We have exceeded the morality of the bible.
Vain? The philosophy of science specifically states that we don’t know everything. If we knew the answers to everything we would stop doing science. We would declare “good game guys” and go throw a party. It is the bible that claims to have ultimate knowledge but it cannot even answer a simple question such as “What is Antibiotic related collitis?” or “How do you make a human fly”.
Seriously. We can fly. Your book has no meanings when the strongest flying creature on earth just 200 years ago was limited to the maximum speed of a horse. We can travel faster than sound and have touched the moon. Do you really think we are vain, or just very sure of what we can do?
Read our lips.
In Daniel 12:4 “It was prophesied that that many shall run to and fro,and knowledge shall be increased.All these spectacular inventions etc. Is simply the fulfillment of this prophecy. God created man in His image and He has granted man a brain and the ability to make many things from what Christ has created.However carnal man is puffed up by the knowlege that God inabled him to acquire.as is stated in Isaiah 47:10,11 “For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness; thou hast said,None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge. it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart I am,and none else beside me. Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee ;thou shalt not be able to put it off:; and desolation shallt come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know “.
many today are spoiled by the vain philosophies of men and pseudo scientist that have refused to retain God in their minds to the point that the even deny the Creator’s eternal existence. When if it were not for God’s grace they could not even tie their shoes. Let us give God all the Glory for the grat things he has enabled man to do. And let’s not blame God for the mess man inspired by satan has made of God’s blessings
I’m sorry, but “In the future there will be more complex stuff than we have now, also more knowledge” is not a prophecy – it’s a statement of the blindingly obvious!
So your basic statement is we don’t believe in magic because science proved that it’s not real?
Good game guys! We won!
“Missing link”:
Tiktaalik http://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/
Archaeopteryx http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/archaeopteryx/info.html
Contradictions: when did the temple veil rip?
http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/05/08/when-did-the-temple-veil-rip/
Next time you can do harder questions.
“I then ask them to show me even one. They try and try, in fact one person spent all night searching for one to no avail. I said if the Bible is full of contradictions you ought to be able to locate one almost anywhere. It is kinda like the missing link they just cant find it.”
Did the sign posted on the cross include Jesus’ name?
Matthew (27:37): “This is Jesus the king of the jews”
Mark (15:26): “The king of the jews”
Luke (23:38): “This is the king of the jews”
John (19:19): “Jesus of Nazareth the king of the jews”
While these are all reasonably close, no two gospels quite agree on what the accusation on the cross said. But that isn’t the only part of this scene that they disagree on. Almost every detail that is related by the gospel authors appears in at least two contradictory forms.
Did both the thieves crucified with Jesus revile him, or did one repent on the cross and receive a promise of redemption from Jesus?
Matthew (27:44): “The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.”
Mark (15:32): “They that were crucified with him reviled him.”
Luke (23:39-43): “One of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
John does not say anything about these 2 men except that they were crucified along with Jesus.
John (19:18): “Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.”
What was Jesus given to drink, while on the cross?
Matthew (27:34): “They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.”
Mark (15:23): “And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not.”
Luke (23:36): “And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar.”
John (19:29): “there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.”
What time of day did the crucifixion occur?
Matthew (27:45-46): “Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say my god my god why hast thou forsaken me.”
Mark (15:33): “When the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.”
Luke (23:44): “And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.”
Matthew, Mark, and Luke all have Jesus on the cross at the sixth hour (noon). John has the sundial strike 12 while Jesus is in the judgment hall with Pilate.
John (19:14): “And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!”
What were Jesus’ last words on the cross?
Matthew (27:46): “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
Mark (15:34): “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
Luke (23:46): “And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.”
John (19:30): “When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”
Was Jesus killed by the romans or the jews? Was Jesus crucified on a cross, or hung from a tree?
All 4 of the gospel accounts describe Jesus being crucified, yet in the book of Acts, both Peter and Paul state that his method of execution was hanging. And Peter is quoted as using the odd phrase “whom ye slew and hanged on a tree” while talking to the Pharisees.
Acts 5:30
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Acts 10:39
And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
Acts 13:29
And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
While crosses were traditionally made from wood, it should be self evident that a cross and a tree are not the same thing.
What did the centurion in charge of the crucifixion say after Jesus died?
Matthew (27:54): “Now then the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.”
Mark (15:39): “And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.”
Luke (23:47): “Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.”
Was there an earthquake coinciding with the death of Jesus? Was Jerusalem overrun with zombies?
Matthew (27:51-53): “The veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent. And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew tells us these ghouls “appeared unto many”. They did not appear unto Mark, Luke, or John. Mark and Luke mention the veil being rent, but no earthquake or zombies. John makes no mention of any of this.
What did the roman soldiers do with Jesus’ clothes?
Matthew (27:35): “And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.” (on a side note this is one of those misquotes I was hinting at earlier)
John (19:23-24): “The soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.”
These may all seem like minor details. And to be fair, each of them individually, are relatively minor. But taken together these discrepancies give the impression that these four witnesses are describing four entirely separate executions.
All of the new testament authors agree that this was one of the most important moments in all of human history. They just don’t seem to agree on what actually happened.
Moving on to the resurrection…
Who discovered that Jesus’ body was not in the tomb?
Matthew (28:1): “In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.”
Mark (16:1): “And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.”
Luke (24:10): “It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.”
John (20:1): “The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.”
Was the stone still there when they got to the tomb?
Matthew (28:2): “And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.”
Mark (16:4): “And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.”
Luke (24:2): “And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.”
John (20:1): “The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.”
Were there angels at Jesus’ tomb? Where they actually angels or just men? Was there one or two of them? Were they inside or outside the tomb? Were they there before Mary (and pals?) arrived or did they appear after?
Matthew (28:2): “And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.”
Mark (16:5): “And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.”
Luke (24:3-4): “And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments.”
John (20:11-12): “But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre, and seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.”
What (if anything) did the man/men/angel/angels say?
Matthew (28:5-7): “And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.”
Mark (15:6-7): “Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.”
Luke (24:5-7): “And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.”
John (20:13): “And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my LORD, and I know not where they have laid him.”
What did Mary do after she talked to the men/angels?
Matthew (28:8): “And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.”
Mark (16:8): “And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.”
Luke (24:8-9): “And they remembered his words, and returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.”
John (20:14-15): “And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.”
No contradiction at all. One writer gave more or less detail than the other. And presented the facts with different wording. I suppose if I told you I am going uptown today, and later I said Today I am going up town. You would say I contradicted my self. It amazes me how the skeptics can strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. and then accept everything the evolutionist say though they change it on a regular basis.
“August” is using willful idiocy, I see.
Hows about the two creation stories in Genesis? I’m curious to see what kind of handwaving this August will employ in order to stave off the explosion of his one remaining brain cell.
That’s easy Skippy…err Roger? ha. One is a ‘creation’ (created 1:27) and the other a ‘forming’ (formed into material, earthly matter, ie our bodies in 2:7). Since God is Spirit (Jn 4.24) and man was originally made in His ‘very image and likeness (1.26) so man is also (created) a spiritual being housed (formed) in a physical body.
There are no contradictions, there are however numerous mysteries, wonders, etc. The Lord is One (in Spirit, in essence) and would be One with you…too. (1 Cor 6:17)
All the best.
Thanks for your contribution John C.
But since August is claiming there is no contradiction in what the bible actually says, I don’t see how your particular gnostic interpretation of Genesis addresses any of that.
All the best.
and then accept everything the evolutionist say though they change it on a regular basis.
Atrocious grammar aside, please provide evidence to support your claim, “August,” and then show that you have a reasonable understanding of what an “evolutionist” claims.
Evolutionists change “it” when new evidence is discovered that provides a more accurate or more detailed understanding of how we all evolved. Creationists never change their story because no evidence – old or new – exists for it.
A more realistic example (considering the discussion) would be if you said “I am going uptown today”, and later said “I am going to stay home all day today”.
What if you live uptown?
You managed to interpret that in a way that could lead to no contradiction. Reading Genesis must be paying off ;-)
I can’t tell you to think again. Not till you start thinking in the first place.
Unreasonable faith has already addressed that false notion.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/contra_list.html
http://www.answering-christianity.com/101_bible_contradictions.htm
By this you mean that as long as you shut your eyes plug your ears and sing loudly you can’t hear or see any contradictions in the buybull.
Open you magic book at page one. In genesis 1 man and woman are created together after the animals, in genesis 2 the animals are created after man but before the woman. In what universe is that not a contradiction?
Actually plagiarism is a kind of theft. As I said, it is a serious crime and constitutes cheating rather than the laissez faire definition you have given.
And in any case you do realise the bible was edited by committee at the Council of Nicea where we get the first bible (the vulgate). Prior to that there was no bible just gospels which not everyone followed.
Was the first Bible the Vulgate? SOMEONE RESEARCHED THIS AND I HAVE NO REASON NOT TO BELIEVE IT.
The first hand-written English language Bible manuscripts were produced in the 1380′s AD by John Wycliffe, an Oxford professor, scholar, and theologian.
1,400 BC: The first written Word of God: The Ten Commandments delivered to Moses.
500 BC: Completion of All Original Hebrew Manuscripts which make up The 39 Books of the Old Testament.
200 BC: Completion of the Septuagint Greek Manuscripts which contain The 39 Old Testament Books AND 14 Apocrypha Books.
1st Century AD: Completion of All Original Greek Manuscripts which make up The 27 Books of the New Testament.
315 AD: Athenasius, the Bishop of Alexandria, identifies the 27 books of the New Testament which are today recognized as the canon of scripture.
382 AD: Jerome’s Latin Vulgate Manuscripts Produced which contain All 80 Books (39 Old Test. + 14 Apocrypha + 27 New Test).
500 AD: Scriptures have been Translated into Over 500 Languages.
600 AD: LATIN was the Only Language Allowed for Scripture.
995 AD: Anglo-Saxon (Early Roots of English Language) Translations of The New Testament Produced.
1384 AD: Wycliffe is the First Person to Produce a (Hand-Written) manuscript Copy of the Complete Bible; All 80 Books.
All these Versions and the Same Message in them all
“SOMEONE RESEARCHED THIS AND I HAVE NO REASON NOT TO BELIEVE IT.”
Translation: “I’m not interested in researching my own beliefs. Someone else has done it, and they told me this is true. Why would they be lying. They believe what I believe. So It must be true.”
“All these Versions and the Same Message in them all.”
Since you’ve read every version of the bible, perhaps you could explain to me why protestants don’t accept the catholic doctrines of transubstantiation, and papal infallibility.
“Athenasius, the Bishop of Alexandria, identifies the 27 books of the New Testament which are today recognized as the canon of scripture.”
Athanasius of Alexandria proposed his list as a response to arianism, and the already proposed canons. All he “identifies” here are the books that he personally approves of. Many church fathers had such lists, and many were quite different from Athanasius’. It is most likely not a coincidence that Athanasius served as Alexander’s secretary at the First Council of Nicaea, and Athanasius’ hit 27 for 27 on his fantasy canon card.
You ask ,”Since you’ve read every version of the bible, perhaps you could explain to me why protestants don’t accept the catholic doctrines of transubstantiation, and papal infallibility?” I believe Protestants do not accept these teachings because they are not taught in the Bible but are simply assumptions a church.And are contrary to our reason.
Perhaps you should take actual research into account, rather than just the “research” provided by apologist fundies. No serious Bible scholar believes Moses wrote the Pentateuch. It’s a view originally espoused by Jewish believers, which has been taken over by Christian fundies, but no scholar worth his salt gives it credence.
I really wish I could know it all, But only the skeptics have that ability. But it is the final exam that really counts. And then the main question on that exam will be what have you done with Jesus Christ.
I guess you’ll be pretty sorry you were too afraid and stubborn to use your sense for 60+ years. That is, if you could be sorry and dead at the same time. There are no questions on the exam, we all just get a D for dead.
Even cold-blooded serial killers who rape children and eat them go to the same place as you!
If you honestly believe that, you will end up in the same place with those perverts and all the other unbelievers. It is my earnest prayer that you will confess you are an evil corrupt sinnner, guilty of speaking lies about you Creator and Savior Jesus Christ. You are totally unworthy of the slightest consideration of the Holy God. However God is merciful slow to anger, eager to forgive and reluctant to punish. He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. WHOSOEVER WILL MAY COME, SO TO STAY UNSAVED IS JUST PLAIN DUMB
Since when were perverts automatically unbelievers? I thought they were priests!
The lights go off and nobody’s there. Maybe you’re already dead. I’ve done nothing to repent, and there’s no one to repent to. It’s foolish and juvenile to believe in imaginary friends.
Hay, make up your mind in one sense or another:
Either you need God’s to wilingly “touch” you and be saved, you are given grace, or you can freely accept him withouth holy’s dove. You can’t have it both ways.
God’ Saving grace is available to all men. He is not willing that any perish,However you can resist or quench and grieve that Holy Spirit of grace because you have been granted by God,s Soveriegn grace the the abiity to receive or reject. Even now at this very moment you are being touched by His grace.You are the deciding factor.If you choose death instead of life do not say you did not have opportuniy offered you. Just know you messed up your opportunity to be saved and you have noone to blame but yourself. You must make the choice, as of now you have chosen Hell over Heaven. I pray that you will have second thoughts before it is eternally too late.You could be just one heart beat from a flaming Hell.
It’s really up to him, ok. He chooses not to exist. He chooses not to make his presence known, if he did exist. He chooses to be imaginary. You could be just one heartbeat from being dead and only dead. Just like Hitler and Timothy McVeigh and Jack the Ripper.
“Just know you messed up your opportunity to be saved and you have noone to blame but yourself.”
I blame god. God likes to watch. He’s a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts, he gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does he do, I swear for his own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, he sets the rules in opposition. It’s the goof of all time.
How about this: Thanks for your gift of
insert item name hereGRACE I really appreciate it. I’m enjoying theother name for giftETERNAL LIFE right now.It worked on my stalker-ish Aunt. Mabey it will work on Jeus-Freaks
OK, lets just say “I’m Saved. I accept the gift of “Grace”.
Now what?
The Holy Spirit would then proceed to conform you to His (beautiful) image…if you would consent, otherwise you would be like so many other ‘Christians’ who although ‘saved’ meaning He dwells within them, they have the Life of God on the inside yet they never allow Him to fully effect the degree of transformation, ie Christ-likeness that He would work in you. Unfortunately this is the kind of Christian that most of the world sees and wants nothing to do with (and understandably so) because they are essentially no different than anyone else.
Its a beautiful journey with many wonderful surprises along the Way.
I find it incredibly apropos that you posted this at 4.20 pm.
You get a far better (and eternally sustained ha) high than with what you’re hinting at there JMW…all the best.
Sounds like a pretty jacked system.
I see what you did there :p
So then there’s nothing else I have to do?
Great. Then take me off your list and stop yammering at me.
And do you think that unto such as you,
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew,
God gave the secret, and denied it me?—
Well, well, what matters it! believe that too.
Can you honestly accept sharing your eternal reward with a man who committed incredible atrocities while fully knowing that people whose sole failing in life was to deny god? Then you are truly evil. You are not free, but chained by your faith in magic. There is nothing you can achieve using your faith that cannot and has not been achieved by someone who is an atheist. Perverts? Half the people you consider perverts and unbelievers were good men. Hitler is in heaven and Gandhi in hell? Then your system has real issues. And remember Gandhi did things that Jesus did not while being “just a man”.
And you assume these properties about god (should he exist). One may as well wonder about laserous penguins and teapots for the amount of proof you have.
Well Avicenna, There is none good,we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
However God is longsuffering to usward not willing that any shoul perish but come to repentance. And the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared unto all men. He has manifest His love proved Himself alive by many infallible proofs. You can chose to believe and recieve Him or despise and reject Him. You have the God given ability to choose.I have made my choice to go to Heaven,It seem at this point that you choose to go to Hell. We all live with the consequences of our choices. He will coerce no man to receive Him. He came unto His own and His own received Him not, but to as many as did receive Him He them power to become the sons of God, even to them that believed upon His name. I hope before He lends you your last breath that you make Him your choice.
Oh, really? But you think he created us all, so that would mean he has a success rate of 0%. Your god must be really stupid. Then again, this is a guy who got outmaneuvred by a reptile in the first chapter of his own holy book.
ITT: Fundie that uses wharrgarbl in a feeble attempt to mask the stupidity of his arguments.
I haven’t. I didn’t kill every first-born in a nation. I haven’t ordered or comitted genocide. I didn’t kill someone’s family because of a bet with the devil. I didn’t train bears to kill children. And I never devastated the whole world.
I’m far better than your god is.
Well (kinda) technically, because you didn’t do all those things you do fall short of God. Whether those things could be called glory is another matter.
Well, when I was younger -i.e: a little kid- I flooded some ant’s nests just to see what would happen, and i enjoyed seeing them running out of it.
Maybe I am a little like god.
Well said.
@August P. Hinton
Most of the things you claim are sins are not really sinful at all. And good and evil are subjective and depend on the effect of actions. Many well meaning actions have caused incomparable harm while many evil actions have saved lives.
There is very real evil in this world. You either fight it or you are helping it exist. As far as I am concerned that should your god exist, he is part of the problem. To quote Dawkins. Dying is inevitable, and that makes us the lucky ones because for every one of us born there are millions of potential humans who are not born. How guilt laden must you be if you assume any of us have anything to repent? We don’t. We have one life. Just 70 years. We get to do what we want in it. We are judged by what we do and how it effects the people around us and what legacy we leave to the future. Not by any god. And I would rather leave something for the future than kowtow to any tyrant.
All your proofs boil down to “Because I wish it worked like this”. Are you sure your heaven even exists? We may live in a Hindu universe since the proof for one is the same, in which case I am closer to heaven since Hinduism does not require belief merely just action. My actions are just. I may not be the nicest man on earth but I am friendly, I use my brain to help others as much as possible and I do give people something they really need. The gift of time sometimes years sometimes minutes. But it’s those minutes you really see your divinity vanish. A dying mother can hold her child one last time or a father hang on till his family arrives so he can die surrounded by love is to go to hell, then fine it’s a price I can live with.
And no man on earth bar the utterly insane and deluded can call me evil. For that reason alone I am close to monksha by Hindu theology while you do not use your gifts to improve mankind thus accruing bad karma and therefore dharma.
See two can play the magic sky fairy card. And hey if we lived in an Aztec universe I would have an instant card to heaven because I have delivered a child and therefore do not have to suffer any torment to get to heaven. Sweet eh?
We probably shouldn’t discuss that in front of children, but are you sure that the morality of an action depends on the results but not on the intention? Specially when, often, you can’t know all the results in the moment you decided the action. Moreover, depending on the subject he/she could foresee more or less results of his actions and in some situations that could change the morality as you are defending it here.
Oh, and which is the deathline of this outcome? I mean, it could be possible that an action could do more harm the first week, and save lives the next month, and kill millions 15 years in the future.
The intentions of prolifers and various people who are against homosexual are genuinely driven by the idea that we are wrong. Obviously there is some logic to it. Something 15 years down the line is not something we can predict. Something months down the line is the same.
But remember no one ever considers themselves the bad guys. Everyone assumes they are doing what they think is good. People will still abuse other people no matter if religion is there or not. Religion is just one tool to do so.
That’s my opinion atleast. Obviously around children you need different rules, but that’s in the hope that when they grow up they understand that we should think of our actions.
As an example, there was a beggar outside where I walk to my commute. I used to give him half my breakfast daily (a sandwich). Turns out later he is part of a begging scam here. Me giving him a sandwich just means that he gives it to his minder. He still starves. If I feed him, I am feeding organised crime. There is no way to feed him or free him since where I live at the moment the coppers are so bent you can use them to unstopper a wine bottle.
I stopped feeding him. If I feed him, I sit with him till he eats the sandwich now. It’s happening less and less.
All your righteosness is as filthy rags, The soveriegn God does not have to answer to you. for whatever He does or permits Satan to do.In fact mankind is guilty of all the tragedies, such as pain,suffering,sickness murder,theft,sodomy,,judgement, etc. Everything would be beautiful if man had not defied God by listening to Lucifer.
It is only by His mercy,that He did not wipe us all off the face of the Earth. Not many humans would be willing to take the insults and abuse He has taken from those whom He loves so much He was willing to suffer bleed and die for. The thing that troubles many skeptics is they think so much higher of themselves than they ought. They only are willing to worship themselves. They unwittingly are bowing to Satan. Thinking they are so much smarter than their Creator.
It definitely doesn’t say that in the Bible, so I have to ask, where are you getting your info?
So God permits Satan to do evil? It seems Epicurus’ paradox has been answered: God is evil. Thanks for clearing that up.
Yes God permits both you and the devil to do evil, nothing happens here or in heaven that He doesn’t allow.He is ultimately in control,How ever we do not sin because He allows it, we sin for the satisfaction of our own lusts. But soon and very soon God will cast Satan and all Christ rejectors into a place of eternal torment and the smoke of their torment shall ascend forever. God does not do evil but He allows His creation temporarily to do evil. He did not make the devil tempt Adam and Eve nor did He make Adam and Eve disobey, yet He allowed them to sin. I do not claim to understand why.However I know that we will understand it better by and by. Our life on earth is but a vapor it appears for a little while and then fades away. It wont be long till we who believe will be translated into the very presence of the Lord. And we will understand more clearly than we do now. It is Obedience now and understanding later..
1.- Satan was created by God -following your logic, if we can name it logic at all
2.- Man’s lusts were created by God
3.- God knows everything, that means he can foresee the future. Wich implies he can know beforehand who will be a sheep and who will be tortured for all the eternity.
4.- So, I’m going to be tortured for all the eternity because God made me the way he did.
Fine, if I was created so that he could torture me for all the eternity who I am -or you- to oppose his willing? But please, just don’t call that “love”
“It is Obedience now and understanding later..”
How do you know? How can you trust God? Why it is not obedience now and torture for all of us later?
If someone is perfectly capable of preventing evil but allows it anyway then he is himself evil.
Actually it’s even worse than that. Satan is an agent of God, which means God is complicit in the evil Satan commits.
Satan? I thought Lucifer was imprisoned. Unless you mean the judaic satan who plays devil’s advocate to god testing mankind with strife.
Pain is physiological. Disease is pathological and has nothing to do with sin. If it did then I have more power than god since I know how to fight disease. You can pray all you want but proper plumbing beats god’s wrath. Murder and Theft are crimes and are punished by humans. Sodomy is not a crime and is “kind of fun”. It shows priority really, it’s like chasing up parking tickets while a serial killer hacks people to death in front of you.
Which creator? Got proof it’s not Brahma?
Hi Avicenna, God makes no attempt to prove that He is, It is so self evident Only a fool would say in his heart there is no God..All the problems of whatever that men suffer is a result of man’s sin. not necessarily the indivduals sin. But mankind in general. God is God he does not have to answer to any man. The reason a man is unable to find God is the same reason a crook can’t find a cop. even if he is seen of a crook he would hide from him unless he repented and was willing to confess his crime.
A fool convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
A person is far wiser to place his confidence in the eternal Son of God than some egotistical skeptic that thinks he knows it all. And is unable even tell me which came first the chicken or the egg.
“The reason a man is unable to find God is the same reason a crook can’t find a cop. ”
Austerity cutbacks?
“A person is far wiser to place his confidence in the eternal Son of God than some egotistical skeptic that thinks he knows it all. And is unable even tell me which came first the chicken or the egg.”
It was the egg. That’s been known for quite a while now.
First belly-laugh of the day :D
Actually in the past, if your collection of faerie tales is to be believed, god went out of the way to prove that it existed. It’s only now days with the rise of science and the ability to communicate with each other over vast distances has god strangely fell silent. Cheeze sammiches and dirty windows and the rantings of crazed men is the best it can do.
If god was self evident there would only be one religion and missionaries wouldn’t be needed to spread the word.
A just person doesn’t punish the unborn for the sins of their parents or their neighbors. The thing you call god is a special kind of monster.
]
So much for god being self evident.
Your infantile chicken and egg question has already been answered. Maybe if you ask it a few more times you will wear someone down instead of sounding like such a prat.
Yeah, it’s foolish not to say it out loud.
He. You don’t even realize that the “chicken and egg” question is just an expression and not a science question. It is not meant to be answered since that would defeat the purpose of the expression.
Though if you insist on a scientific answer, the egg came before the chicken by some hundred million years. We’ve known that for more than a century, although I don’t expect creationists to make use of such recent information.
A fool is a man who accepts things without proof. The greatest of our problems have no blame. Man is capable of infinite cruelty and kindness within the same breath because he is a man. People such as mother Theresa in her understanding of kindness prolonged the suffering of others and caused unnecessary death because her idea of kindness was based on an faith rather than an understanding.
I have nothing to fear from your or anyone else’s god any more than I have to fear being on the naughty list of Santa.
Evolutionarily speaking the egg came first. The domestication of chicken occurred in South East asia around 10,000 BC and occured via the domestication of the Red Jungle Fowl which is the chicken’s closest genetic ancestor. Various egyptians refer that fowl came from the east and India and China indicate they imported chickens from the east and south respectively pinpointing the location of domestication. At some point between Red Jungle Fowl domestication they stopped being red jungle fowl and started being called chickens. However it is merely a domestication issue. Chickens can backbreed into red jungle fowl thereby “stopping being chickens”.
However it’s pointless. The evolution of chicken is via domestication and indicates a drastic change in allele frequency caused by interbreeding rather than a specific chicken genesis event (CGE) since the chicken is regarded as a subspecies. Indeed apparently there were two such events since chicken was well known in south america and indeed south american origin chickens lay blue eggs and are related to a different bird.
We do know a lot. Not everything but a lot more than the bible.
I’ve got to find a way to work that into a conversation.
Why not? If he caused it and doesn’t take responsibility, he’s irresponsible and doesn’t deserve any worship.
Or maybe there’s another reason. He doesn’t exist. He’s imaginary.
It’s pretty thick-headed to quote passages from a mythology you believe in, to others who don’t believe your particular mythology.
What did I do with Jesus Christ? Well, I found him, killed him, and ate him with a nice Chianti and fava beans.
Well Skippy,
At least now I now know the true profoundness of your intelligence, It is no wonder with a great brain like that you doubt the very one tha created you.
Now sir, you own me a new ironymeter
August wouldn’t know irony if it came up and beat him about his skull.
“I really wish I could know it all, But only the skeptics have that ability.”
YES! Yes we do!
We don’t know it all yet, and no single person can know it all, but we collectively WILL know it all eventually. That’s called science, and it simply works. We are peering into galaxies on the other side of the universe and seeing new planets form, we’re drilling down to the center of sub-atomic particles and finding the essential building blocks of all existence, we’re discovering new medical treatments that greatly improve the quality of life for countless fellow human beings. We are skeptics and scientists and dreamers and innovators and we are leading the future of this planet and this species.
I know you’re aging, but there’s still time to move beyond your superstitions and join us here in the twenty-first century.
I didn’t do anything with him Officer, I swear!
I did see 3 old perverts touching him in a way I wasn’t certain was appropriate given that they just arrived and have no relation to the Mother or the Father. You should ask them!
You know what my answer would be on that exam? “I waited for 30 years for him to show up, and he never did.”
You seem to think that everyone here just decided to reject God but the secretly know he exists. That is not the case. I am far from the only one who spent many, many years seeking god, praying, studying the bible and even working in ministry before facing the conclusion that the being we were told loves us more than anyone is either non-existent or behaves in a way which in a human we would call emotionally abusive.
Ya know, honestly ALL one has to do to prove one is correct is to provide a testable means of proving one’s statement. That’s it. That’s what we call “SCIENCE!”
-”God can heal you with Prayer”. Show an independent case study with testable repeatable processes that show statistically significant improvements. Have others repeat this and get similar results. Result: SCIENCE proves FAITH
-”The Word of God is perfect and not open to human mistranslation”. Do multiple independent studies where groups of people translate a random page of the Bible from English to Japanese to Swahili to French to Latin to Inuit and back to English. If the final result is word for word the same as the original, and this can be independently verified: SCIENCE proves FAITH.
I’m sure there are many others, but that’s ALL you have to do. You have to PROVE it. This must then be VERIFIABLE. Once verified, it becomes TRUTH (or at least for a time until a better hypothesis is formed, tested, and proven).
Other than that, chant once a week in your magic house to your invisible friend. I don’t care. But don’t then tell me that the invisible guy told you (and ONLY you) that I have to do something or stop doing another.
If we were to have a double-blind controlled study to determine whether prayer can heal, I wonder what the placebo would be. Praying to a desk lamp?
It’s actually been done by a Christian cardiologist, who trumpeted his (statistically insignificant) results very loudly (and still does), despite the attrocious quality of the study and the critical demolition it received.
I believe the placebo was telling people that they were being prayed for when they weren’t.
IIRC the outcome was that if you THINK that someone is praying for you, whether there is or not, you do recover slightly more quickly.
I thought the result in that study was that people being told they were being prayed for did slightly worse but maybe I’m thinking of another study.
One study has shown that the people being prayed for did slightly worse. The cariologist I mentioned did a study where he split patients into two groups and had a group of seven Christians pray for one group but not the other. No effort was made to determine if there was anybody else besides the seven nominated Christians praying for one group or the other, and the study method was poor at best; the difference wasn’t statistically significant in any event.
“Only one life it will soon be past Only what is done for Christ will last.” It is a sad commentary that unGodly corrupt vile blasphemous ungrateful heathen yet still loved by God. Continue to demean the only one true God by placing the blame on the righteous God who created them and loaned them every breath they breathe, have the audacity to blame God for all the trouble that they and their father the devil cause in this beautiful world that Christ created. Certainly they if they continue with the attitude they so often express have nothing to look forward to but the certain fiery indignation and wrath when God pours out His vengenge on those who have refused His love and forgiveness. It is only by His compassionate mercy that they are given opportunity after opportunity to confess their guilt and escape the wrath of an angry God. I would not want be their shoes for all the wealth and fame this world holds. I say this realizing except for the grace of God I could be one of them. However the same grace that redeemed me is available to all men who confess their need of forgiveness and salvation. So knowing the terror of the Lord we pray and persuade those who will, to flee the wrath which is to come. Jesus Himself came to His own and His own received Him not, but to as many as did receive Him He gave them power to become the sons of God even to those who believed upon His name. The Bible says that God’s Spirit will not always strive with man. And I believe it wont be long before the door of salvation will be forever shut.
Evil things have been done and are still being done for “Christ”. The problem is when you do things in a god’s name you tend to excuse the worst evils in the world because you don’t care about the effects, merely the act.
The world is beautiful for you because you are lucky. If you were born in Bihar or Sub Saharan Africa or Romania your tune would be very different. You are incredibly lucky for merely existing.
How is living a good life deserving of wrath and torture? I am confident I have done nothing wrong. I don’t need forgiveness for my sins because my sins are petty, childish and harmless. Your sin is cardinal. The sin of ignorance and the sin of spreading ignorance. If god made the universe and you then he would want you to understand it. Not hide behind scripture waiting for the end. It really is pathetic. The universe is far more impressive than even your wildest dreams.
Again. I ask what proof that your god exists and to heed one important piece of advice.
All we have is built on the sweat, blood, tears, luck and genius of small fragile human beings. To turn your mind inwards and assume a book written 2500 years ago knows everything is hubris. We don’t know everything. The day we know everything science will stop. And hell even then we would still have scientists throwing themselves at the end of knowledge because there may be more. We strive to that day. Our achievements are individually small but together we are unstoppable and that is why we live in the age of humanity where we affect our planet on a grand scale.
Your god is a small god. Utterly tiny in scope and scale compared to what we know of the universe. There is more wonder in the tiniest of viruses than the combined books of all faith. And that is what scares you. That we know so much and with such clarity of mind that we cannot be controlled by the chains of religion again.
You think that is wonder? I can show you things that completely wrench the human thought process down new and exciting routes. The question remains, are you willing to stop believing and start asking questions?
Oh, he’ll ask questions, all right. Lots of them. It’s just they’re not very bright and he isn’t interested in hearing the answers anyway.
August is one of those Christians who feels that every time he doesn’t himself know the answer to a question it proves the existence of his god. And like so many other fundies he has perfected this kind of thinking to such a degree that he actively shuns and ridicules knowledge, prefering not to learn it, and proclaiming it to be a prideful and arrogant vice. He is much more comfortable reveling in his unchanging dogma which provides for him all the answers he needs, which is none.
Of course, but the offer is always there. There is one thing we can always learn from christians. That we should always be ready to teach people the reality of science. They got their pseudoscience into places because they were willing to do that. In order to stop them we need to do the same.
I like the quote from Pratchett about “Ceaseless punching at ignorace”.
Trj. says,”August is one of those Christians who feels that every time he doesn’t himself know the answer to a question it proves the existence of his god.” Wrong August does not feel any responsibility at all to prove the existence of God. God Himself does not try to prove His existence! For only a fool has said in his heart there is no God. Any person with an ounce of sense would have to admit all the tremendous marvels of the universe did not just happen. There are multitudes of folks who have said with there mouth there is no God that later when converted said they never really believed it, and in their heart of hearts always really knew that God is real. They simply were trying to convince themselves that they were atheist because it seemed the popular thing to do. They were convinced of the reality of God and convicted of the terrible sin of denying God with their mouths and received Christ as their Savior. I pray that you too will find the courage to do the same.
” God Himself does not try to prove His existence! ”
Nor does Santa. Or the tooth fairy. Or leprechauns. Ever wonder why this might be?
“Any person with an ounce of sense would have to admit all the tremendous marvels of the universe did not just happen. ”
equals ‘I don’t understand it, God did it’. But even allowing some creative force in the Universe, you are still a million miles from your appalling sky-daddy.
“They simply were trying to convince themselves that they were atheist because it seemed the popular thing to do.”
The popular thing to do? What planet are you on?
You are confusing atheists with uncommitted christians. You think we all just decided church was boring and we wanted to sin? You have been repeatedly told several reasons why anyone who put any thought whatsoever into the matter would decide christianity is fraudulent. Rather than address any of that you continue to make your silly impotent threats as if anyone here is afraid of a character who only exists in the imaginations of the weak minded.
The reason god doesn’t stop us from blaspheming is because he can’t.
I only hope that you do not wait till you are crying out for a drop of water on the tip of your tongue before you believe. The only reason God does not stop a person right away for the basphemous words spoken against Him is His long suffering love and patience, However the bible says that He will not always strive with a man. The moment of truth will surely come. Those who profess that they know that there is no God and hold to that denial of His eternal existence will have eternity to regret it. I am not threatening any one I am simply passing on the truth of the only authorative,infallible Word of God. Heaven and earth will pass away but His Word will not pass away for it is forever established in the Heavens.
Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds, coming from a grown man, even? No, I guess you don’t have any idea how stupid that sounds.
Only authoritative, infallible Word of God? Seriously? Do you even have a clue how many contradictions there are your infallible word?
And let me just say that I would rather burn for eternity than to serve a god who (according to your infallible Word) commanded the slaughter of children and set the price of a woman’s rape at a few coins given to her father.
People mock me all the time but I don’t feel the need to punish them. What do I care about the opinions of the ants beneath my feet?
Tell me this. Is his boundless love the reason as to why he allows blameless suffering on this earth? There is no sin that brings about Ebola considering it mainly kills devout christians rather than anyone specific. Or that africa is such a horror filled continent despite it’s huge christian population.
Maybe they aren’t praying hard enough eh? Obviously your prayers must be worth a lot more than theirs.
A
Ah, the good old “atheist are not really atheist because I refuse to accept someone would not believe in God” defense.
Like Nox said, those “atheists” you know were more likely uncommited Christians who just never gave religion much thought. Most atheists I know are atheists exactly because they did examine the claims of religion and found them wanting. Not to mention absurd, inconsistent, and immoral.
Anyway, someone’s faith says nothing about whether the thing they believe in actually exists. Lots of people become Muslims or Hindus; does this help to convince you that Allah or Vishnu exist? No, I thought not. So why should it convince us of God’s existence because someone you know becomes a Christian?
People’s tendency to believe in gods says more about human nature than it says about the existence of God. In fact, the readyness with which some people accept (or invent) whatever religious claim can be considered just another supportive argument for God being made up.
Hi Kodie you asked, “Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds, coming from a grown man, even?” Then said,”No, I guess you don’t have any idea how stupid that sounds.” Well on the contrary, it would not surprise me a bit if my statements
sound as stupid to you as your views and statements sound absolutely stupid to me! It is very evident that we see things from two opposite perspectives, you seem to lack any spiritual understanding. And I find it very hard to believe that with all the signs of the times and biblical facts that any man with even the slightest spiritual discernment could be so lacking of sensing of the presence of God.
Define this.
Cite sources of “signs of the times” and “biblical facts”
“Define this”
… something I pulled out of my arse which makes me right and you wrong, perhaps?
‘Cite sources of “signs of the times” and “biblical facts”’
… it’s all to do with interpretation – Hinton’s is right and yours, whatever it may be, is obvioulsy wrong.
Signs of the times? You mean like your loving God allowing infants to be raped, causing natural disasters that bereave innumerable families, and so on?
The tremendous marvels of the universe “didn’t just happen”. There are real forces at work here.
Plenty of your people converted to a different god. And people convert in times of desperation because they have no other options. Ever wonder why people seem to convert along very specific ethnic religious lines? Like if tormented daily I may rely on Shiva rather than Jesus since in my idea of a god as an ex hindu, a god is not a god unless represented by a giant phallus, booze and meat. Krishna may get all the ladies but shiva is the god of making women’s knickers fall off. (The Kama Sutra uses him as a model as said to be divinely inspired by his skills which apparently pay the bills no matter the era)
Because we are taught from a young age about god. Atheist children would not fall for this because they have no concept of a god indoctrinated into them so if they have to place their faith in magic they would invent a god rather than rely on an existing one.
Atheists are amongst the most discriminated groups of people out there. I think the LGBT and Queer communities are in the same boat as us because we stick up for them a lot but the rest of humanity really does not like us because the assumption is that morality comes from religion despite all evidence to the contrary.
Augie, Augie, Augie…accepting the advice of my son as he dangles from your cross, I forgive you, for you know nmot what you do…
Read Deuteronomy 29:29 Then Matthew 24, Then get Google Signs of the Times on you PC.
Pray that the good Lord will remove the scales of unbelief off from your eyes. Possibly you may come to the knowledge of the truth for the first time in your poor sinful life before it is eternally too late. This could be your last opportunity to receive Jesus Christ as your Savior. There is only one life and it will soon be past, only what is done for Christ will last.
God loves you, Christ died for you. Cease this blaming of God for all the evil that man has brought upon himself because of doing despite to the Spirit of Grace.You do not find Christians raping ,etc. It is done by unbelievers like yourself. That hope there is no God to give account to in this life and the next. They are either Satan worshippers or those who only god is their own ego and lusts no true follower of Christ will be found guilty of those things.
Is anyone else wondering if this is an exquisitely talented troll? I seriously hope so, because it would be sad if one were seriously this deluded.
No murder and rape by Christians? Dude (or dudette :P), have you even read the bible? Do you read the news at all?
“No murder and rape by Christians?”
… they ultimate denial has already been but in place:
“… no true follower of Christ will be found guilty of those things.”
Is that bag pipes I hear?
1 John 3:15 “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.” You and I may have a different definition of what being a christian means. A christian is a person who has the Spirit of Christ in him, a true follower of Christ will not murder nor rape.All true christians have eternal life abiding in them 1 John 3:15 (King James Version)
“. . . . . no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.. . .” If he murders he is not a christian!
*pats August on the head* Must be nice having a get out of jail free card. What about the prophet who ran a spear through the belly of a pagan woman while she was having sex with a Hebrew man? I’m sure you’ll invoke Old Testament clause, but let me remind you of the verse regarding God being the same “Yesterday, today, and forever.”
Luke 14:26: “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”
Leave it to fundies to be unable to argue logically for their religion from their own holy book.
Real true pastafarians don’t rape, lie, murder or steal. They are handsome, intelligent, amusing and cool people. And they never ever get anything wrong. That proves that the FSM is the real and only God.
If you found a so-called pastafarian that doesn’t have one of those attributes, that’s because he is not a real pastafarian and the FSM did not touch him with his noodly appendages. All hail the FSM!
Why do you guys keep feeding the troll?
Boredom? :P And Cthulu > FSM! ^^
You can’t be serious! What has Cthulu done for humankind? The FSM gave us pasta! Once he touches you with his appendages you are never the same again, and you will feel deep inside that the only and true god is the FSM.
Cthulu does not need to do for mankind, we can only accept the truth that he is. The FSM is a creation of mankind to deny the true darkness that the One will inevitably bring. :D
Hello Bender, Please dont worry about them overfeeding this friendly troll, I am not swallowing any of their skepticism.Jesus has been too good to me for me to ever deny Him. And He has always worked all things together for my good. Once a person has a personal experience with Jesus he is never the same.A person is only existing until he or she has that spiritual relationship with the “Risen Living Christ.” It is simply a matter of Choice and I have made Christ my choice years ago. And Jesus has never failed me! And He has promised to never leave me nor forsake me.
Hi Francesc, Trust you are well and doing fine this beautiful mrning that Jesus has blessed us with. I awoke this morning giving Him Praise and Thanks.I wish I could have the pleasure to meet you personally and have a good face to face conversation. I have never been very good at reasoning with those that are so determined to reject Christ sight unseen. Jesus Himself could not persuade everyone to receive Him,even after raising Lazyrus from the grave they sought to kill Him The disciple John was inspired by the Holy Spirit to give the real reason why some skeptics were so difficult to convince in.John 3:17-21 “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Many people who post regularly on this site are former Christians. And many of us managed to shake free from the chains of religion by actually reading and studying what was then our holy book. So we’re not rejecting Christ “sight unseen”. On the contrary, we’re rejecting because we have seen: the lies, the inconsistencies, the fairy stories, the twists of logic, the astronomical leaps of faith necessary to continue living the lie.
Quoting from a book that many of us know quite well – and have rejected – will not get you anywhere.
But I will agree with you about one thing: it’s a beautiful morning. Nature is wonderful. And doesn’t need any god to make it that way.
I have raised people from the grave too. It’s called a defibrillator. We have heart lung machines that have stopped people from dying for weeks even months bringing them back from the brink.
Evil deeds? I put this to you, Man is a moral creature because morality is an evolutionarily strong trait. You may think lying cheating and stealing help you survive, but they don’t. Strength of humans is in our ability to work together and you can only work together if you are moral. You may be the most badass thing on earth complete with an entry on badass of the week that makes John Basilone look like a cowardly dandy but if you are a complete immoral individual, the rest of us will bring you down for the sake of our society.
Humans are basically moral beings brought up to be nice irrespective of religion. There is no claim you can make that cannot be achieved by Atheists. Bearing in mind how few of us there are (Less than 5% of the world) we are heavily represented in the sciences and heavily represented in charity for our numbers. Not heavily invested with money but with time.
There is real evil in the world, and frankly we are not it. If you looked beyond your book and learnt something new you would see inconsolable evils that make your biblical plagues look like the fears of a child. A man fears the luddite movement, for it is a step backwards into a dark age. A man fears the treatment of our economy. A man fears the denial of healthcare to all members in society. A man fears the falling standards of education and the denial of rights to women. These are real fears and real evils happening now in our society. Your bible’s idea of evil is hardly scary now.
Hi Aviceanna, You said,”I have raised people from the grave too. It’s called a defibrillator.” We have heart lung machines that have stopped people from dying for weeks even months bringing them back from the brink.” It is always a great feeling to know that you were instrumental in the saving of a life. I have also been privileged to experience that a few times. However it could never compare with the joy you will receive when the Lord enables you to win a soul that will now live eternally with Jesus.and escape the torments of an everlasting Hell.without God. No matter how many times you revive a dying soul eventually he will breathe his or her last breath and pass on either to Heaven or to Hell!
No mattter how many times you revive an individual the time will come when all human efforts will be in vain, Then that person will face his or her creator and either be present with the Lord or cast into an eternal Hell. God has blessed mankind with great intellligence
many recognise that fact and many think it is just due to their own ability. You know what I mean, the so called “Self made man,” He knows nothing about the soul or God’s eternal plan for man.” I have known a few of them however when they think they are in deep dark trouble they cry out for God. True I have met a few professing atheist that would be classified as good citizens and they will let you know they pay their debts etc. Not realizing that the greatest sin of all is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and spurning the love of their Creator. God be their Judge,but He has aready said the fool has said in his heart there is no God. This life is but a vapor it appears a little whle and the vanishes a way. And then what really counts is what have you done with Jesus the Christ.
You have a really fu*ked up set of standards if you consider saying something about an imaginary sky dude to be worse then things like rape and murder (or spitting on the floor).
Having saved a couple myself and been part of teams that have saved more than a few: You’re a liar. There’s no better feeling in the world than giving somebody their life back, and your trite comparison with evangelism is insulting.
Hi Custador,You said,”There’s no better feeling in the world than giving somebody their life back, and your trite comparison with evangelism is insulting.”
I did not mean to be insulting, I respect the knowlege and ability that the Lord has enabled the medical profession to acquire.However until you have done both you will never know the measure of difference. One is temporal the other is eternal I had the privilege to serve in the Medics as as a surgical technician and held most of surgeons that I worled with in the highest esteem. However to play God with that knowledge and fail to give God thanks for it is really insulting. There is no greater joy on earth once you have become a christian than to with God’s help win a soul to Christ!
August, listen very carefuly: Get back under your bridge. Stupid troll is being stupid. “God” is not “allowing” me to spend years of my life learning to be good at what I do. “God” did not and does not “allow” dedicated, intelligent people to research, learn and apply that knowledge to defeat disease, injury and death. That knowledge did not come from “God”. It came from human beings working very, very hard and caring deeply about what they do. According to your warped logic, God’s answer to disease and injury was to create and than make humans suffer while they learn how to heal it (how exactly do animals benefit from this arrangement, do tell?) instead of just not creating disease in the first place.
I don’t thank God for my knowledge and skills, August. God has so far been conspicuously absent while I have been learning and honing them. And just to clarify: The fact that I called you an insulting liar should have given you some hint as to how much I think of your opinion.
Hi Custador, How you think of my opinion most likely is about the same as I think of your opinion, I have been called liars by liars before so I kinda expect that. And also I have called some liars when they have said that I said something that I never said, You are welcomed by me to express your opinion even though it is diametrically opposed to my opinion, Someone has said and it is generally true,” Opinions are like noses everybody has one.” And in my opinion you are so stuck on yourself that you would not want the One who has given you the ability to pursue the course you are interested in to receive any credit for His part in your achieivements. Knowledge is wonderful, however sometimes it puffeth up and causes some to develope a false mystique about themselves and they become nothing more than a self conceited snob.When in reality they are only that special in their own opinion.They seem to think that the God of the Universe is beneath them and they trample the blood of Christ under their feet as an unholy thing. And seem to have reverence only for their own selves.
Knowledge just means he knows more than you so he seems a lot smarter than you simply because he has acquired more.
We don’t think any god is beneath us anymore than we worry about hurting the tooth fairy’s feelings.
August, whenever someone happens to not like your God you accuse them of being stuck up and full of themselves. However, it is actually quite possible to reject your God (both from a moral standpoint and from the point of his non-existence) without suffering from an inflated ego. But I doubt you will understand that. To you, non-belief and self-importance are inseparable.
“However it could never compare with the joy you will receive when the Lord enables you to win a soul that will now live eternally with Jesus.and escape the torments of an everlasting Hell.”
Your god invented hell, so he can go to it.
You don’t know if he will go to heaven or hell. And you don’t know what it feels like because you assume that you are going to heaven yourself.
Everyone dies. It is a fact of life. Medicine makes sure you die old and broken rather than young. And quite honestly you assume that there is a god so you perform a series of rituals. While we don’t and just get on with our lives. I mean the closest thing I have to a ritual is my monthly bottle of wine and pasta on the beach.
Are you joking? The catholic church has doomed millions to an agonising death by HIV and you think calling a mythical entity silly names is a worse offence? This is why we think your morality is terrible. You have no idea what suffering is at all.
Yep, I’m fine thanks. I am pretty lucky too, when you consider that I was born in the good side of the world.
- This beautiful morning someone awoke with a rifles in his face, and he wondered if his family was going to be murdered after his wife and his daughter were raped.
- In the other side of the world a father decided to commit suicide, after being fired from his job because he never could overcome the death, in a car crash, of his wife and their only child.
- A baby awoke crying because his mother couldn’t give him milk, that is three mornings in a row, as she didn’t eat anything for a week.
- A woman mother of three was beaten to death when his drunk husband came home and she didn’t was compliant enough, the oldest daughter awoke this morning with his father on her bed.
- After fustigating themself in the morning because of his carnal desires, a priest went to the orphanate and he tried to force himself upon a child.
- The catholic president of a very catholic republic awoke this morning with an underaged girl in his bed.
- Oh, and a young boy couldn’t awake this morning because yesterday he was killed by some classmates because he was gay; lucky him, in some religious countries he would have been tortured before being killed.
All those people aren’t as lucky as I am, because you know, we europeans…I mean we americans… ¿we jewish? just happenned to be the people choosen by a caring and loving god.
Hi Sunny Day, You wrote,”It won’t work on the terminally stupid like August . When you believe you are condemmed to eternal torture for something your so called ultimate ancestor did etc.” Well Sunny I may be stupid about somethings, but not so stupid as to think I know it all, or to worship myself, or to think that i just evolved from an amoeba in the muck and mire, or on a rock so many eons ago. That theory is absolutely preposterous, and any one that would swallow that baloney would swallow anything.and when it comes to reaching out to help the needy I would be surprised if the the church of Jesus Christ.does not do more than all the athiest on the globe. Christians are admonished in the Bible to do good to all men especially to the household of faith. And for the most part they do..You are not going to Hell because of the sins of your ancestors. A person goes to Hell because of his own unforgiven sins. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I have never met a perfect man neither have you. But if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I have, and you better.before it is eternally too late.Have a good day and thank our Creator for His longsuffering patience with us. I believe Jesus is coming back very,very soon.
Provide evidence as to why the theory is preposterous. Stating it does not make it so. It’s also amusing that you’re promoting the idea of a magical friend in the sky while disregarding scientific theory. Are you a conspiracy theorist by any chance?
Sins… ah, like wearing garments of mixed cloths? Gotta say, God has his priorities straight… a woman gets raped, the rapist just pays daddy and everything’s hunky dory, but mixing wool and linen is a no-no.
Paul also believed Jesus was coming back very, very soon. Jesus kinda stood him up. ;)
The theory of evolution is absolutely absurd,totally contrary to reason and common sense.The Lord never told the Apostle Paul that He was coming very soon, Paul hoped that He would return in his lifetime.And we christians have that same hope.
No one knows the day or the hour when Christ will return,We only know that one day He will. The Bible says that a thousand years is as a day and a day as thousand years. So in God’s timing it has been just a couple of days and not even a wink of the eyelash in comparision to eternity.When the fullness of time had come God sent forth His Son. He will do it again at the right moment our part is to go into all the earth and preach the good news that is God Loves You, Jesus died for you, receive Him as your Savior and KEEP THE FAITH AND KEEP LOOKING UP! It will be worth it all when we see Jesus!
I used to think that too, when I was in the church – because that’s what I’d heard, in the church. I’ve written things on other blogs (discussing evolution versus creation) like “I’ll believe in evolution when a dog gives birth to kittens” and “it’s only a theory“. Because that’s what I’d been told.
When I finally read a little about it myself, I realised that I’d been told a bunch of rubbish – which was indeed absurd. Worse, the people who told me this rubbish must have known if I could find it out in a few minutes – after all, they were teachers in the church. When I finally understood what a theory was (in the very tightly controlled scientific sense) the real theory of evolution actually made sense – and it was nothing like what I’d been told it was.
I hope you spend the time to read what evolution actually is, and not just leave it at what you’ve heard in the church or other Christian circles.
Fixed ur tags.
Hardly
Atheists make up roughly 5% of the world’s population. We number in the millions. You have a billion plus followers of your superstition.
However if you forget… our works include science. Nearly 95% of recognised scientists are atheists including such individuals as the men responsible for the green revolution.
1 Billion people are alive due to it’s research. One sixth of the world. We have others that save millions of lives. ORS, saves millions per year and its just sugar, water and salt but it’s still a discovery. We may not donate money, but we donate our time and our talent.
The theory of evolution is understanding how evolution took place. Evolution however is fact, much like gravity. We now we evolved, we just are debating the mechanism. It’s in our DNA. It’s not unique and its universal. I don’t know about you, but God does not seem like the kind of man to work in Open Source.
The Theory of Evolution is a phenomenal idea that explains how complexity can arise from simplicity and the system is elegant. There is more knowledge in a single turn of DNA around a histone than the entire book of Genesis. It shows how you fail to understand.
You can’t see the forest for all the trees mate. If God existed, he would be a scientist like us to make a system so elegant as this that is self regulating. Of course we discuss Spinoza’s god of the mechanism who set things up then left not your lego style god.
True we do not live in a perfect world and sin,death, and misery abound,However God does not deserve the blame for the mess that His creation has caused and is causing.
No more than an earthly father is to blame for the wrong actions of child that has been blessed with faithful parents who set the proper example before them. Place the blame where it belongs on satan and sinful mankind. God does care and the Judge of al the earth will do what is right. His delays are not denials and He is Holy and just. Shunning the love of God sure does not make the situation better but worse!
Your father analogy is incorrect. A father is not all knowing, all wise, or all loving (even the best of them). God supposedly is. Here is a more fitting analogy: Imagine if a computer programmer wrote a program, then when the program ran within the perimeters he specified, the programmer smashed his computer in anger. This is what God did if one accepts the account of the bible. He created man, and he created Lucifer, knowing that Lucifer would rebel and that man would choose to disobey. And given the fact that man had no knowledge of good and evil at the time of creation, how would they know it was good to obey God? Therefore, God punishes man for something that is God’s fault.
Please, for the love of all you consider holy, try to answer me with logic instead of spouting more platitudes.
He would deserve that blame if he existed, as Morpheus has already explained to you.
Shamir also was born yesterday, and the first contact with his mother’s blood infected him with VIH. He will probably die before he is 4 years old, and being born in a muslim family he is not going to hear about Christ. Is he condemned to eternal torture because of what? Is that fair?
Be careful because if the answer is that he is not condemned to hell because he couldn’t know about Jesus, then the people that told me about Jesus are responsible for my alleged future in hell, as if I hadn’t heard about him I wouldn’t be condemned. Then, everybody who speaks about him is not giving good news but condemning innocent people to eternal torture.
Consider this, your gut is filled with billions of bacteria. Do you care about each individual one? Consider that each bowel movement expels millions of them. Do you care?
The earth is like that. It has no care. Disease? It has no care. These are not evils, these are facts of life. An earthquake is no more evil than a tree falling on your. Malaria kills because it is a part of its lifecycle rather than the desire to cause death.
Most of the evil we suffer is due to ignorance and blind faith rather than malice. Never attribute to malice what can be easily explained by idiocy.
Francesc, My wife went to Wal Mart this morning, I knew the day before that she was going to Wal Mart. However she did not go because I knew she was going, she went for reasons of her own. God’s foreknowledge has absolutely nothing to do with a persons power of choice except the fact in His soveriegnty He gave each of us a free will. We make choices everyday. We must not blame God for the choices that we make. If we cooperate with Him we will make the right choices if we listen to satan or just rebel we will live with the consequences of our choices.”Choose you this day who you will serve as for me and my house we will serve the Lord”
Apparently I’m board again… *gets out the troll food* Personal experiences that may be interpreted with a widely ranging degree of subjectivity do not count as evidence.
God’s foreknowledge would be proved by nothing less than something akin to the following scenario: God appears to several people in widely varying locations at the same time, giving them a prearranged meeting point and informing each of them of a different piece of a cosmic puzzle (lets say an alien invasion). These people gather, piece the puzzle together, and inform the media. Aforementioned invasion comes exactly true. There’s a saying I quite appreciate, “Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence.”
I know August will not believe you, and will ignore what you said. They will prattle on some more about the supposed validity of it’s religion.
I’m just like god in my predictive powers!
If you are not going to answer any question I think I’m going to quit the discussion.
Did you created your wife? Did you make her personality? Did you created Wal Mart so that your wife could go there? Are you killing her and torturing her because she choosed to go to Wal Mart?
If the answer to any of those questions is “no” then your allegory is wrong and doesn’t apply.
This kid of my story, going to be death before he is 4 years old, did he had free will? Did he deserve some kind of punishment because of his parents? He is not living, by any meaning, the consequences of his choices, he is living the consequences of other people choices. That’s not fair and it is not free will.
One of the things I find most ironic about apologists, is that supposedly anyone can choose to follow the Xtian/Muslim/whatever god, but they wouldn’t even know that god if they weren’t indoctrinated on it first. There are no spontaneous christians – they always have to be told Christ exists first. Like the natives in the middle of the Amazon that never even knew such a thing as Christianity ever existed.
But now that they know, if they don’t accept Jesus, then they’re going to hell for ever. Thanks a lot.
I really like it when they talk about Gods supposed self evidence. If so then missionaries wouldnt be needed, and there would only have been 1 religion in the world.
What rubbish.
Even with free will, you cannot choose to do something other than what God has already foreseen. So it’s not free will, because God already knows what you’re going to choose. You cannot choose something else. Otherwise, he’s not omniscient.
Hi Len, Welcome to the discussion, Yes he is omniscient,but we are not though some act as though they are, and perhaps are so decieved and deluded they really think they are. I do know it is impossible to understand spiritual some things unless you are spiritual. However we try to explain some things in simple terms so that the simple can understand. However often to our dismay some cannot even understand the basics. I like to allow the scripture to explain when I am unable to myself. 1 Corinthians 2:14 “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
It won’t work on the terminally stupid like August. When you believe you are condemmed to eternal torture for something your so called ultimate ancestor did why would they give a fuck what happens across the street much less the city or world?
Hi Sunny Day, Did your mother ever wash out your mouth with soap, and attempt let you know that gentlemen do not use such vulgar language. The most loving and caring people I have ever known are christians. The very essence of christianity is a love and concernn for their fellow man and their is none more charitable than the church of Jesus Christ.
You may not use vulgar words, but you do use (1) name calling:
you use (2) sarcasm with a nasty message contained therein:
you (3) use circular reasoning that proves nothing:
You’ve taken to task someone for ‘language” which you mean a choice of certain words, and don’t hold yourself to any moral standards at all in your nastiness. (“great brain” sarcasm is hateful and nasty.)
You’ve ignored my posts on biblical contradictions.
You’ve posted 57 times and rising on this article alone, even though Daniel’s website
saysused to say “No evangelizing”. This makes you formerly a rule-breaker, and obnoxious.You’ve said you move on, then make a pest and liar of of yourself.
Maybe when Sunny Day called you stupid, it may have been a factual statement. If the shoe fits, you’re wearing it.
And the stupidest thing you do is continually, constantly quoting the writings from your particular chosen mythology to people who do not share your belief in your mythology. Your circular reasoning that a book saying a character in the book called Jesus is true because Jesus said it is, is genuinely stupid. I am not just name-calling. It actually is stupid behavior.
Avicenna said,” Knowledge just means he knows more than you so he seems a lot smarter than you simply because he has acquired more.”.
Every one is knowledgeable about some things and ignorant about somethings all of us are ignorant of more things than we are knowlegeable about, so none of us have anything to brag about. You may be a heart specialist but not know how to repair an automobile, If I am having a heart problem the most important to person to me is a cardiologist, but if my car wont run I would call a mechanic.If I have questions pertaining to my soul’s salvation, the most important human being to me is my pastor.Their importance to me depends upon my immediate need! Otherwise we are all just sinners either saved by grace or lost.
And yet you, while displaying for all to see that you know absolutely nothing about anything except fairy tales, are coming across as one of the most smug, self-satisfied braggarts I’ve ever read. Funny, that.
Hi Custador, If I have come off as a braggart,Please accept my apology I am trying to the best of my limited ability to share what I believe and what the Bible teaches.If I have bragged about myself or any of my acheivements tell me when.. I am very secure but I hope I am not sinfully smug. My hope is based on nothing less than Jesus’ blood and His righteousness.
Hi trj , You said about me,”….. To you, non-belief and self-importance are inseparable.” Wrong, I may not have stated my opinion distinctly but in my opinion there is a difference between an un believer and a non believer. A person who has heard the message of salvation through Christ and rejects Jesus is an unbeliever,while a person that has never heard of Jesus Christ is a non-believer not by choice for how can a person believe when he has never heard or had knowledge of the Lord, Generally speaking in America most of the population have heard and received or rejected. Though there are still many who have not heard. I do not believe everyone that do not believe are self important egotistical snobs I believe there are many that do not think they are important enough, if there is a God for Him to love or care for them, however many are, and it is pretty obvious when you communicate with them. I thank the good Lord that I learned as a young man to never feel slighted by a self conceited snob. I just usually pray for them and move on.
Then please, move on.
Custador. You’ll be probably pleased to know.. August moved on, probably to heaven.. He passed away mid June.. I’ve never seen any group attack someone for being concerned for their soul like this bunch did.. I think there will be a day of vengeance, by the Lord, for those whom have attacked his sheep… Hopefully, you and your “other” friends will see the truth some day.. I rebuke the statement that 95% of Scientist don’t believe in God.. Even Einstein said science without God is null… But from what I have read, most of you think you are beyond the wisdom and intelligence of Einstein.. and God… That tells me alot…… I’d bet that started at a very young age too.. lol. Good luck with happiness…
August 15, 2011, not mid June.
I’m sure that he would be proud that you came in here and said that. It just seemed to reinforce what was being said.
Actually Custador is a medical professional. No matter how much of your own feelings you wish to project onto other people, I sincerely doubt that the death of your average confused and ignorant believer would please him. You however seem to get off on wishing destruction and torture on people you don’t agree with. I hope you “move along” as quickly as August did.
So you’re going to sic your Boogie Man on me? Whats next, tell me that your Dad can beat up my Dad?
Rebuke, is that just another christian word that means shut your eyes really really tight and wish it wasn’t true?
Nope, not Einstein, just beyond the ignorance of believers and their mythological Boogie Man.
Just a few sentences before this you were wishing eternal torture upon us. Are all christians insincere liars like you?
You picked the wrong place to grieve. You’ll get no sympathy here, especially when you spew such hate at us.