Most were shocked by the charred scene of Joe Stack’s kamikaze attack on a Texas IRS office, but for an alarmingly growing number of Americans Stack is a hero.
The Web was studded with praise for Stack almost immediately after his plane slammed into the Austin office complex Thursday morning. The admiring salutes appearing on sites ranging from Facebook to the pages of extremist groups reflect what experts say is an “explosive growth” in the anti-government patriot movement.
“Extremist groups are already aligning behind [Joe Stack], beginning to talk about him as a hero,” said Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center which studies American militia and hate groups. “The growth of those groups has been astounding.”
Stack’s suicide note, an angry rant against the IRS and the government which was posted online the morning of his death, got around 20 million hits before it was taken down at the request of the FBI, according to Alex Melen, president and founder of T35, the network service provider for the Web site where the note was posted.
Melen, 25, said within minutes of taking the note down, the company was “bombarded” with around 3,000 e-mails demanding Stack’s words be reposted. Some of the e-mails contained personal threats against Melen.
“What’s funny is most people were pretty much praising him,” Melen told ABC News.
Are we in the middle of an anti-government resurgence that will soon embrace violence? The same kind of nutjobs that bombed abortion clinics will be attracted to this movement, and though the leaders will say they non-violent, there will always be people willing to do the dirty work.
These people talk about how liberals are destroying America, but I honestly feel if anyone brings in this country into civil war, it will be teabaggers.
Any ideas on how to diffuse this growing situation?
What?! There are a few nuts on the internet and the mainstream media is blowing it out of proportion?! I can’t believe it!
I think its time to stop with the teabagger joke. I know this is a term they originally used for themselves, and damn it’s funny… but most of them don’t even realize that now, and think it’s just a made up slur. Also I really upset my mom when I said that once. So that may be a (very small) way to start with diffusing the situation (ok it likely won’t help one bit I admit).
It’s funny how places like FreeRepublic tried to brand Stack as a “lefty” and a communist (he quoted Marx in his suicide note!) yet all the people hailing him as a hero are right wingers. Sick. I really feel horrible for the guy’s family.
It’s hard not to call them that when they continue to festoon themselves with tea bags. I suppose tea infusers might be too noisy.
Never mind that they called themselves teabaggers, and only got offended when it was pointed out that “teabagging” is a sexual act. I say we keep calling them “teabaggers”, if only to remind them of their own idiocy.
Burning down your home, leaving your family in the streets, then doing a kamikaze is a cold thing to do to your loved ones. Obviously the man was angry and selfish.
Um… THIS.
And I think we can safely add “self-destructive” to the list.
BillZBub, I think that is a reasonable suggestion, except that “deluded, hateful, selfish know-nothings” just doesn’t roll off the tongue easily.
I feel bad for someone who is driven to this level of frustration.
His actions WERE USELESS!!! The IRS is NOT the bad guy. IT is the congress!!!
The IRS are just bill collectors, all be it nasty ones.
But it is congress that sets the taxes so they can live their lavish life style while we are unemployed.
Attacking the IRS is just telling congress that we don’t understand taxes so we will kill the messengers. So they will not feel threaten.
And NO, suicide bombing anyone is silly, so no one should be doing it.
It’s “albeit.” For future reference.
Let me see if I got this….
A Muslim flies into a government building, proclaiming his hatred of the American government, and he’s a terrorist.
An American flies into a government building, proclaiming his hatred of the American government, and he’s a hero.
cool, got it.
Their intent was mass murder, his intent suicide. Got it. Flying small plane into a building is suicide, your highly unlikely to kill anyone. But wow i gotta say that fire really went nuts. But yea hes still a douche.
1) I was using a rhetorical device. I wasn’t trying to equate Joe Stack exactly to 9/11
2) however, please try and tell me that if a Muslim, foreign or American, flew a small plane into any building, government or not, he wouldn’t immediately be labeled a terrorist. At the least, there is no way the current crop of anti-government protesters (the TEA partiers) would defend or support his actions
If you just want to commit suicide you put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger. If you fly a plane into a building, even a small one, you are more then likely to kill others.
Agreed. Sorry, but if Tim McVeigh had driven the truck full of explosives into the Oklahoma building, it woudln’t have been suicide.
This man didn’t just want to kill himself – he wanted to take his wife, his child, and anyone at the IRS (even an innocent taxpayer who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time) with him.
This is no hero. A hero would have run for office. Would have petitioned people to change the laws. Would have *lived* to make things better.
Instead, he’s someone that may have gotten a bad rap on his taxes – but that doesn’t justify attempting mass murder.
“Any ideas on how to diffuse this GROWING situation?”
Yeah, just a few come to mind…
Get RID of noted Islamic Fundamentalist & Marxist Dictator Barry Soetoro. He is a HUGE failure, and crippling our nation further with new welfare programs will only make things WORSE.
Get RID of at least HALF of the current stock of Do-Nothing govt. bureaucracies that suck down loads of cash, but produce NOTHING. Joe Stack was DESTROYED by the greed and demands of a WILDLY OVER-BLOATED “government” that sucks-down cash for their own, self-serving purposes while IGNORING their so-called ‘constituents’.
Tell the welfare loafers that the Gravy Train is NOW OVER, and it’s time to Sink or Swim, just like the rest of us white folks.
Tell the U.S. Congress that they are welcomed to keep on swimming in Scotch, Cocaine and Hookers… as long as they START PAYING FOR IT WITH THEIR OWN MONEY.
It’s your choice. You can either take this advice NOW, or wait until you DON’T HAVE A CHOICE! Because you will soon find out the REAL meaning of “Change”.
Troll.
Worse than a troll.
Not even qualified to be a troll.
I was going to go with the “T-t-t-t-t-troll! In th-the dungeon!” line, but I got lazy.
Can I jam a wand up his nose, now?
Feed the person some real nutrition and send the brad on the way.
“They have a CAVE troll.”
Your sword emits a blue glowing aura
You are standing in a field west of a small, white house.
There is a mailbox here.
NEEEEERDS!
(plugh)
And you know what? Someday the sky is gonna fall. It’s happened to every culture that has ever existed. Ours won’t be the exception.
Know what else? Barring some cosmic disaster, it won’t be any time soon.
The crazy is strong with this one.
Lol no doubt.
RANDOM words in ALL capital letters gets your POINT across much BETTER doesn’t it?
Survey says! No. No, it does not.
Why do you CAPITALIZE random WORDS?
It makes your rambling SCREED rather DIFFICULT to read!
Joe L., excellent point. As far as doing anything about the increase in militant behaviour, we probably can’t do much as a group. However, one-on-one, we can try to defuse it in individual conversations. There is a part of this militia movement that has mental health issues, so that’ll have to be left up to the medical field. All of these people feel threatened by change and don’t have the skills to cope with it. Unfortunately, most of them don’t want to learn those skills and take great pleasure in their rage. It’s almost as though they aren’t fully alive unless they are angry about something.
FRIDAY’S GREGALOGUE: RESPECTABLE JOURNALISTS
So anyone with more than half a brain saw the plane crash into the Echelon Building for what it was- an ugly, shocking event caused by a bitter weirdo. And nearly everyone was thankful it didn’t turn out worse.
But I guess Washington Post contributor, Jonathan Capehart, has less than half a brain. After reading Joseph Stack’s suicide note, J.C. wrote, , “I am struck by how his alienation is similar to that we’re hearing from the extreme elements of the Tea Party movement.”
Well, for me – I’m struck by how boringly predictable a respected journalist like Capehart can be.
I use “respected journalist” just for fun. Capehart is a tool.
I mean, seriously dude, you couldn’t have resisted, for a moment at least – that urge to…go there? I mean, I know you hate those damn teabaggers, but linking them to this horrible crime seems almost like a parody of jackasses like yourself. Maybe that was your intention: your comments were just an elegant satire on elitist left-wingers! In that case, bravo.
For as most of us know: during those massive tea party protests, there were no acts of violence. As I’ve said before, people were throwing picnics, not Molotov cocktails. The same could not be said for the more romanticized WTO protestors, or the dopes in Copenhagen, who capture the imaginations of tools like Capehart, because they don’t shop at Walmart.
But as the great website HotAir pointed out, in order for Capehart to link Stack to the tea parties, he had to deliberately omit key parts of the suicide note. You know, the stuff where Stack bashes Republicans, Bush, our current state of health care (which he says kills thousands), and of course, capitalism.
So why did Capehart do that? Well to get Stack’s story to fit the assumptions that only J.C. and his friends share, he had to lie. For that, he approximates a scumbag.
No, sorry – he’s definitely a scumbag.
And if you disagree with me, you’re probably a racist homophobe who eats babies.
At our local Tea Party event, I saw very angry people. One young man was trying to engage in a debate, and they grabbed him by the scruff of his neck and threw him out of their group.
I only know whats going on here in my home town in Oregon, but it looks pretty damn ugly.
To the question ‘How can we diffuse this?’, thats pretty easy. We just need to run a delaying action. Keep them half appeased for another 15-20 years. They are all OLD, they have almost no young blood in their group. If we keep them half appeased, I think most will die off from heart attacks. This is a last dying gasp of that particular brand of conservatism. We might get the occasional nutjob like Joe Stack, but for the most part they will stay at the country club and bitch while younger voters continue to vote more leftish.
Unfortunately, this kind of thing seems hereditary. The parasitic meme is passed on from generation to generation. And while the young in general hold more progressive attitudes the consensus seems to shift to the conservative end as a generation ages. Either that or the conservatives become more vocal as they get older. This demographic is with us always.
In his manifesto he did rant about the Catholic religion, but other than that, pay your taxes and don’t kill people.
Joe Stack is not a nut job. He was not a crazy man. I do not agree with his actions, but his motives were 100% real;true;logical, and genuine. If you sheep actually read his letter you will see that he was a man that was fed up with ‘our’ CORRUPT government which is not for us. When you sheeple finally realize that your own government did 9/11 you will understand who the real enemy is. Stop watching propaganda (it’s not news.) Learn to use your brains again. Celebrity fashion, is not news. American Idol, is not news. Good lord sheep, WAKE UP to the real world. Your very government is attacking you, and yet you go to it for answers like brain dead zombies. The very citizens you call crazy would/will willingly give their lives so that you can ridicule them. The government does not have your interest at heart; it lives for it’s own purpose; and that is not for America. 9/11/1990: George Bush announces the coming of the New World Order. 11 years later 9/11/2001, terrorist attacks which brought us the Patriot Act. Anyone with an IQ over 70 when presented with the evidence against the 9/11 story will see that we’ve been lied to. www911revisited.com. Joe Stack is only a lunatic if you are still not awoken to reality. Take the red pill; the rabbit hole is very deep.
ALL CIA DA, not Al Aqeda.
Note this is the same “logic” that justifies flying planes into the World Trade Center.
Thanks for illustrating how criminal and insane Joe Stack was.
That right there, folks, is living proof of what I’m scared of. People who say they don’t agree with the violent actions, but then rile it up with their crazy beliefs.
Americans are simply too well fed to have a revolution. I wouldn’t really start worrying until that changes.
By then, if things actually did hit that low, I might join in.
elementrope, exactly, exactly!
Ive been saying that to everyone. And not just food. Were well fed on intellectual pablum too. Cheap food and big TV’s will keep any bubba revolution from starting. Unlike most of you gun hating liberals (joke, J/K) I see these people all the time. As much as they like to talk about hating the government, they are way to fat, lazy and prosperous to revolt. Even at 10% unemployment, most people have food, shelter and a few extra bucks for beer and TV.
Revolution comes from desperation, not discomfort.
Funny you mention this. I’ve been reading Carlyle lately and I just finished a rebuttal to his superlative Latter Day Pamphlets. The rebuttal said exactly that about the revolutions in 1848 – nobody knew what new form of government they wanted; they just wanted quit of the old form, and in the end they got a new form of the old form (generally).
Ugh, Carlyle. Weren’t the Latter-Day Pamphlets the ones where he defended slavery and whined about economics simply because it came to conclusions he didn’t like?
Nietzsche filleted him good in Twilight of the Idols.
Yeah, I didn’t realize all sheep owned planes. He was a baby boomer who grew up believing he was entitled to everything his heart desired.
The only way to stop any of this is the control of $$$. I feel we need to go back to the ways of pre-baby boomers. If you didn’t have the money for it you did without. Saved up your money if you were going to buy something and if you did use credit, you paid it off as soon as possible.
I wish I listen to my grandpa and grandma….
Ooooh, you’re a “Trufer”. Nice. Prove it.
Celebrity fashion and American Idol? You…. don’t really understand the audience of this site, do you…..?
OH hey look you can spell a word in an incorrect way to be cute. Prove it?
demolitions in the twin towers:
http://www.911revisited.com
By the way, many say “well it would take time to plant all that before hand.” Well, well well. A week before 9/11 the bomb sniffing dogs at the twin towers were called off. An unknown construction company was doing construction throughout the buildings. The company that Bush’s brother owns (Demolitions Inc.) removed all the steel from the twin towers after they collapsed and melted it so it could not be tested! There were emergency drills a week before 9/11 happened, and etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.!!!!
WTC7, which wasn’t even hit was annoucned collpased by BBC before it even fell!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_JRe67v1g
Also, the owner took out an insurance policy weeks before it happened and made 5 billion on this, and is on record saying they had WTC7 “pulled”: demolition term for brought down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYdAJQV100
9/10/2001 Rumsfield says they lost 2.3 TRILLION (no one loses that much):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eraYsZJrew
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml
Shankesville Crash site:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsS-xpyqi1w
Bush caught lying about 9/11:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm73wOuPL60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlWSv0NZBRw&feature=related
Also, if you go to the FBI website, you’ll see that Osama is not charged w/ 9/11.
It matters no what evidence is presented if you sheep are blind to truth. I’ll just say this. A revolution/second civil war is inevitable at this point (if you don’t realize this you’re uniformed.) I only ask this: Before you go after/attack the very countrymen who will lay down their lives so you can attack them, at least LOOK AT THE evidence which is the bases for their beliefs. It’s a hell of a thing to kill a man, what must you do to a man to make him give his life willingly?
So you’re saying that the FBI is not part of the massive government conspiracy that takes in the FAA, the White House, the Air Force, the Army Corps of Engineers and a British media company?
I mean, presumably, if the FBI had added it to the list of reasons they wanted him, that would just have convinced you that the FBI was in on it, right?
“at least LOOK AT THE evidence which is the bases for their beliefs.”
How do you know unless you were one of them? Tell us more and stay away from dihydrogen monoxide.
Re: The BBC link:
I can see nothing in there to suggest that WTC7 hadn’t yet fallen, but if you say that’s the case I’ll believe you. However, as the fire department engineers believed it was going to collapse and had spent several hours evacuating people, it seems easier to blame it on a miscommunication (“will collapse” becoming “has collapsed”) than to assume that the US government would entrust their plans (to murder thousands of their own citizens in order to spark a costly and destructive war) to an independent foreign media organisation.
Oh, and when the owner said “maybe the smartest thing to do is just pull it”, he was talking to the fire chief (who isn’t a demolitions engineer), about removing fire fighters from a building that was about to collapse. As his office later clarified:
And as fire fighters said at the time:
But I guess as “pull” has no meaning other than to deliberately demolish a building, and can’t be used in any other context, you must be right, mustn’t you?
–cite
“When you sheeple finally realize that your own government did 9/11 you will understand who the real enemy is.”
Who is the real true logical and genuine enemy?
The New World Order that has infiltrated our gov.t, and the govts. of most of the world. BBC announced the collapse of WTC7 before it even happened FFS!!
If so…so what?
Yeah; if that is your response it’s not worth my time.
I’m honestly asking. If what you are saying is true, what does it matter? You have to convince me, not just drop buzzwords and then huff and leave when someone asks you to explain what you mean.
BBC announced the collapse beforehand because they had prior knowledge and made a mistake. Media is simply controlled propaganda. People realize how Stalin, and Hitler used propaganda, and yet can’t see the same is done to them. I’ve posted a link to the BBC announcement, but not surprisingly that post is awaiting moderation. The post contains much more evidence as well.
Every govt. in the history of mankind has lied to it’s people; yet it’s considered an act of lunacy to question our very own govt.? 84% of American’s don’t believe the govt’s. story about 9/11, but you’d never know that if you watch the MSM propaganda. What’s going on now, is that they (the powers that be) are in panic mode and doing everything they can to shut us up, at ANY cost (yes “truthers” have been killed); there is a mass awakening of people like never before. It boils down to this. Whom do you trust, thousands/millions of people AND professionals, some the top in their field, or the government? Is it so hard to believe the govt. does not care about you? And I also ask you this? Why would your very countrymen lie to you? What is the motive? Now……….can you think of reasons the govt. would lie to you?
I’ll drop another truth bomb in which you’ll call me a conspiracy nut, but everything I say is factual; and your opinion of me matters not. Nazis gave Jews fluoride to make them docile. Do you know what the main ingredient in rat poison is? Fluoride. What benefit does fluoride have for your teeth? (research this!). Fluoride is a known toxin which causes a plethora of physical problems, lowers IQ, and calcifies your pineal gland. Everything I post can be backed up if you take the time to care. Add fluoride to someone’s water if you want to make them dumb and docile (i.e. a sheep.) Take it away and watch what happens.
Once I entered college, I began brushing my teeth more often. I also abandoned my faith and became rather vocal about it. I think it’s the best thing that Crest ever did for me. Except…
http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/fluoride.html
I’d have some more data for you, but Stalin hasn’t transmitted them to my fillings yet. Maybe yours are more fine-tuned than mine.
Lol, you post a link from quackwacthers, and avoid the tons of independent scientific studies done on it, nice.
Nice Poe, which poster are you?
Not according to German documents, or Jewish recollections. Do you have a non-crazy citation for this?
Do you mean warfarin? Or Difethialone? Sulfaquinoxaline? Zinc phosphide? Ergocalciferol? Strychnine? Tetramine? ANTU? Zyklon B?
There are lots of different rat poisons, and almost none of them contain any significant amount of fluoride. Those that do use fluoride (such as Sodium fluoroacetate) have to be tens of thousands of times more concentrated than fluoride in water supplies.
Two items on that list are worth noting in light of your argument:
1) Ergocalciferol is a form of vitamin D, and like all forms of vitamin D, it’s poisonous to rats. I guess that means that it must be dangerous to humans too, and rickets be damned, right?
2) Zyklon B was developed by the Nazis in order to kill (not pacify) Jews.
It prevents decay and cavities.
Pretty much everything is a known toxin, in sufficient doses. Fluoride is easily passed out in urine, and so is only a problem if you get a massive dose in one instance, such as from breathing in pesticides.
And yet you include not a single link or reference in your post. Telling.
So Texans, whose groundwater contains an unusually high level of fluoride, were historically sheep-like, and they only became belligerent when the federal government reduced the amount of fluoride in their drinking water to the mandated one part per million?
Don’t you also know that the New World Order poison those who expose her with dihydrogen monoxide? Your days are numbered.
> “I’ve posted a link to the BBC announcement, but not surprisingly that post is awaiting moderation. The post contains much more evidence as well.”
Ah yes, the hallmark of conspiracy nuts – everybody is out to censor you, including the owners of random forums you post to.
What happened in this case is that your post hit the moderation filter because it contained more than two links (I think two is the limit, anyway). This is done to prevent spammers from advertising via links. But of course you instantly take it as proof that someone wants to suppress you.
Very well – if it’s a recognized study you want, it’s a recognized study you shall receive. Here is a study on fluorides by the International Programme on Chemical Safety. IPCS was created by the World Health Organization to assess “the early warning and prevention of harmful effects of chemicals to which humans were being increasingly exposed, and for the assessment of the potential risks to human health.” The study lists health risks of fluorides, including adverse affects on bones and the results of overdose, as well as suggesting that more studies need to be done to see how fluorides impact the environment.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/ehc/ehc227.htm#11.0
Their conclusion:
Fluorides can have serious health risks, but the nations of the world must work to maximize their benefits and mitigate their negative effects.
Apparently, logic and grammar….
“Who is the real true logical and genuine enemy?”
THE BORG!!
“Why do you resist us? We wish only to improve quality of life.”
“You will become one with the Borg.”
The other day, my S.O. was channel flipping, and The Best of Both Worlds, Part 2 came on. Needless to say, we stopped flipping.
I would have been pissed that I missed part 1. I don’t like part 2 as much as the cliffhanger.
Lizard Men!
I am familiar with the the Tea Party douche bags. In fact I have an old college buddy that believes global warming and evolution are scientific conspiracies, and that Glenn Beck is a sane and rational person. I have discussed these issues with him a great deal and I’m familiar with the quote mining and buzz words he uses to defend his position.
However when I read Stack’s letter it didn’t come off as an obvious teabagger rant. Yeah there were some elements but nothing that said that he was a “hardcore right wing nut ball”. In fact several of his close acquaintances said he never did say much about the IRS or politics in general.
Also can this crime really be classified as an act of terrorism? If he had gone into the building with a shotgun and killed several people wouldn’t it have been considers a mass murder not terrorism? Sounds more like a straight up case of nutball revenge.
You can not generalize an entire movement on one person. First, global warming, and man-made global warming (ever heard of climategate?) are two very different things. Earth goes through cycles of global warming and cooling (in fact all of the planets are currently going through some warming as our system becomes closer to the center of the galaxy bombarding the planets with intense gamma rays.) It is true that we will be in the center of the galaxy in 12/2012; the climates of our solar system have been changing as we get closer. (No, I don’t believe in some 2012 rapture propaganda, but us hitting the center of the galaxy is scientific fact.)
Glenn Beck is another propaganda tool. Just another NWO shill. He showed his true colors again just recently when he tired ambushing Madina, and consequently lost 500,000 viewers following this stunt. Foxnews is just as much propaganda as the liberal stations. People really need to mature out of the right/left paradigm. They are simply illusions of choice; you’re being played. They are dividing the country, when in truth the same powers control both democrats and republicans. [Not all, there are some, albeit rare, honest politicians out there.] United we stand, divided we fall…as they say.
I agree, what he did is MURDER, and should not be commended. Taking of life is terrible.
(in fact all of the planets are currently going through some warming as our system becomes closer to the center of the galaxy bombarding the planets with intense gamma rays.) It is true that we will be in the center of the galaxy in 12/2012; the climates of our solar system have been changing as we get closer. (No, I don’t believe in some 2012 rapture propaganda, but us hitting the center of the galaxy is scientific fact.)
Where did you get that information? I call bullshit.
The center of the galaxy is about 27,000 lightyears from the center of the Milkyway and the solar system is moving (at least from memory) at about 200 kilometers a second relative to the center of the Milkyway.
This means that it would take approx. 32 million years to reach the center of the galaxy at our current speed even if we were heading in that direction.
Oh snap. Science – It works, bitches.
You can not generalize an entire movement on one person. First, global warming, and man-made global warming (ever heard of climategate?) are two very different things. Earth goes through cycles of global warming and cooling (in fact all of the planets are currently going through some warming as our system becomes closer to the center of the galaxy bombarding the planets with intense gamma rays.)
Wow, you just packed about 4 different debunked climate-denier arguments into one paragraph. Well done!
> “It is true that we will be in the center of the galaxy in 12/2012; the climates of our solar system have been changing as we get closer. (No, I don’t believe in some 2012 rapture propaganda, but us hitting the center of the galaxy is scientific fact.)”
Uh-huh. Is this one of those facts the media and the NWO politicians are keeping from us?
It’s a scientific fact that the solar system is going to move 26,000 light years in the next two years? I find that hard to believe Mr Allergic-to-citations.
“Earth goes through cycles of global warming and cooling (in fact all of the planets are currently going through some warming as our system becomes closer to the center of the galaxy bombarding the planets with intense gamma rays.) It is true that we will be in the center of the galaxy in 12/2012; the climates of our solar system have been changing as we get closer.”
This is awesome, I wish I could bottle up Awake’s level of stupidity and sell it as a weapon.
“Global waming is caused by the Earth travelling to the center of the galaxy. The Mayans predicted it. The government puts fluoride in your water. Wake up, sheeple!”
Yep, it would make a potent weapon. Or a good laugh.
IIRC, “killing with Stupid” is punishable under the Geneva Convention, so no :(
“This is awesome, I wish I could bottle up Awake’s level of stupidity and sell it as a weapon.”
Fox News beat you to it.
“us hitting the center of the galaxy is scientific fact”
Ummmm, no. Here, educate yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way
We are in the Local Spur. Our solar system would be destroyed if we were closer to the center of the galaxy. Duh.
Not just from moving the Earth out of the”habitable zone” of the galaxy: moving 25,000 light years in just 2-1/2 years would require that the Earth be moving at roughly 8,000 to 12,500 times the speed of light, which is physically impossible– it takes a lot of energy to bring even a subatomic particle to near half light-speed (see the Large Hadron Collider); the amount of energy needed to move the Earth that fast would vaporize the planet.
I suspect he was mis-quoting the myth that the solar system will line up with the galactic equator in 2012:
http://2012wiki.com/index.php?title=Galactic_Alignment
NASA’s somewhat bored faq on the whole 2012 thing:
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html
More than likely. But then he immediately augmented that myth by linking it to global warming, claiming an increase in gamma radiation as the Earth nears the galactic center, thereby turning the whole thing from sillyness into full-scale, weapons grade idiocy.
Epic fail. And that is a scientific fact.
Let’s boil all of this down to its true core:
This country has been infantilized.
It really is that simple.
The two major ideologies … Left and Right … with the complicity of the mass media (which find the dualistic presentation dramatic and easy for them to portray) … have successfully done three things:
First, they’ve convinced everyone in the US that there is ONLY “Left” and ONLY “Right,” and that everything is just a variation on them (e.g. according to them, there are no true “independents,” even if there are “moderates” who are mostly one or the other).
Second, they have convinced everyone that they only need to listen to “one of their own” (e.g. Rightists only listen to Fox News since only they are “unbiased”).
Third, they have convinced everyone that each ideology is ALWAYS entitled to get ITS OWN WAY all the time — and that if it’s not, then it can ONLY be because the OTHER ideology has somehow ILLEGITIMATELY gotten in its way. (The “Birthers,” and the “Selected Not Elected” folks before them, are both terrific examples of this phenomenon.)
One sees this sense of “entitlement to have the country run the way I demand it be run” on every news show of whatever channel and whichever ideology.
While this has certainly built the two ideologies into very sound socio-political-economic structures — which are now bulwarks unshakable enough to pretty much put everyone in Washington at loggerheads over everything, so that nothing meaningful can be accomplished — they have also reduced the American public to screaming little crybabies who can’t handle it when things don’t appear right to them. They have also given people the idea that public demonstrations of personal sanctimonious outrage are not only acceptable, but required.
Again, that personal sanctimonious outrage is on TV every night on every news channel. Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann — and even some less-political people like Nancy Grace — spend their entire shows raging and fuming at HOW IMMENSELY CORRECT THEY ARE about EVERYTHING … usually because of some variation on “they love their country” or they’re trying “to protect society and tradition.”
Well, I love the country too, and I’d also like to protect society … but I’m adult enough to understand that this doesn’t entitle me to govern … and it doesn’t grant veracity to everything I say.
At any rate … with a steady stream of this crap paraded through our homes every night, of course snivelling little man-children like Stack are going to go berserk in immense ways and try to kill people in glorious fireballs. Of course people show up to “town hall meetings” packing heat and screaming at the speakers. Of course they gather in conventions and say that Tiger Woods’ wife did a GOOD THING by bashing out a car window with a golf club.
Of course there’s an epidemic of juvenile, sanctimonious outrage … and of course there are people who feel not only entitled to express it, but believe it is REQUIRED that they express it.
The problem is that it’s a self-fuelling phenomenon which cannot be undone. Merely telling people that their sanctimonious outrage is childish and that they need to grow up and become the grown adults they ought to be, will only trigger yet more sanctimonious outrage and thus an absolute refusal to comply, rather than convince them they ought to change.
Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book.
— Marcus Tullius Cicero, circa 47 BCE
I’ve always liked that quote, because it sums up the immutable truth that in every period in every place, people have believed their moment was exceptional and their status one of delicacy and peril, whereas hindsight has shown the vast majority of such moments to be unremarkable and unexceptional.
I don’t disagree strongly with your critique of American political culture on any particular point, but would only point out that none of those things are particularly exceptional in American political history.
I don’t disagree that there’s nothing exceptional about it. There was certainly a good deal of infantilizing before, during and after the Civil War … as well as at other times.
If there’s any difference, it’s one of quantity rather than quality, and that’s due to the advent of the mass media and the many means of communication now available to us. In other words, the “social virus” of infantilization is not now, but it’s now more easily transmitted.
If there’s any difference, it’s one of quantity rather than quality, and that’s due to the advent of the mass media and the many means of communication now available to us. In other words, the “social virus” of infantilization is not now, but it’s now more easily transmitted.
I go back and forth on this one. It seems to me that modern media makes every meme more virulent, but also less robust. It used to be, for example, that a meme group (like, say, a religion) would be the only game in town. It took actual physical missionaries and related props to spread, but once it was dominant in the area it squeezed competitors out. Nowadays, the cost of propagation is so small that an idea can spread like wildfire, and yet its ability to crowd out others with any sort of permanence is much weaker.
I see your point, and you might be right. But I wonder if it’s not the individual notions that become “flashes in the pan,” rather than the overall scheme in which they’re presented and the intrinsic, underlying immaturity which infests the country.
That is … let’s say the “Tea party movement” is a Rightist fad that’s short-lived. (It might very well be.) But even if it flares up and then dies down, something else will come up in its place, perhaps to counteract it, engineered by folks on the Left. In addition, perhaps another Rightist fad will erupt in its place. Then either or both of those might die out, to be countered and/or replaced by others … and on and on it goes.
Thus, we’d be in an endless cycle of fury and immaturity, even if individual aspects of it come and go as they become fashionable and then less attractive.
The reason this would happen is because of the persistent infantilization of Americans, which makes them vulnerable to these things. The underlying infantilization isn’t going away — if anything it appears to be increasing steadily — and it won’t die out of its own accord. It will just manifest and re-manifest and re-re-manifest, etc. repeatedly in different ways.
I must say, from a personal point of view, I actually appreciate some days that the current political moment lacks any gravitas. I’d much rather deal with goofy tea party groupies than the John Birch Society or the Ku Klux Klan. People that are deeply unserious have the advantage of being not quite as dangerous as those who are earnest.
Just because these people are not as organized or secretive as past groups, doesn’t necessarily mean they’re any less dangerous. Members of the Ku Klux Klan might have egged each other on to do things, but a lot of these tea bag folks are very angry, are not really thinking clearly, and being as loosely knit as they are, uncontrolled. All it would have taken is for one of those who brought guns to a “town hall meeting” to have shot someone …
What’s more, we still have yet to see what the Left will conjure up in opposition to the tea bag folks on the Right. It’s not safe to assume they will be a bunch of Boy Scouts (or Girl Scouts) either.
All it would have taken is for one of those who brought guns to a “town hall meeting” to have shot someone …
…to kill the movement stone dead. Crazies are crazies with or without a masking political movement, but it takes a radical shift in the general perspective of what’s at stake for violence, thuggery, and assassination to be countenanced as legitimate political tactics.
And what Left? I haven’t seen a functional Left in the US in my lifetime.
Twice in one thread Elemenope, I read you saying things that I’ve been spouting. Are you following me? :)
That’s exactly right, our time isn’t special. It’s not even up to the level of other times. Obviously the Civil War was far worse, and the US was quite polarized prior to WW2. I mentioned it above, but it’s worth repeating. There is a serious age gap between the two parties. A few years will sort most of these problems out.
:-)
Given that you’ve dropped the insulting term “teabagger”, I question your interest in defusing this situation.
Didn’t ‘Teabagger’ originate as a self-appellation?
That was my understanding. I didn’t mean it as derogatory, I thought that is what they’re called. Teabaggers, tea party people, whatever they call themselves.
IIRC, in the MSM it was Rachel Maddow who pointed out to the non-Halo playing straights what ‘teabagging’ is, and the movement thereafter immediately regretted having picked it.
A sea gamer I think the term teabagger actually fits them quite well, considering that the only guys I know who teabag are retarded assholes who deserve a severe beating.
If guys like former Congressman and Senate candidate Rob Simmons are carrying around tea bags … and are proud of it! … then I can’t see how this label could be viewed by them as a pejorative.
I think everyone is missing the point that this guy apparently displayed signs of agitation and mental illness for years. It would be helpful if the IRS made public whatever records they have of their interaction with Stack over many years. Maybe he had a legitimate grievance, maybe the IRS was just what his illness fixated on. I don’t think this case is much different from any other attack/suicide, except that he had access to a plane.
While I do not want a return to the days when someone could be thrown in a mental ward on a spouse’s say-so, it’s time that mental health authorities were given more authority to observe and to intervene. We all need to stop ignoring our employees, co-workers and friends who are exhibiting strange behaviors. Interventions are not just for addicts. Maybe we could stop allowing disturbed people to drive, possess firearms, etc.
While I do not want a return to the days when someone could be thrown in a mental ward on a spouse’s say-so, it’s time that mental health authorities were given more authority to observe and to intervene.
Er…how? I’m not seeing a lot of room to maneuver between the two choices. I appreciate the sentiment (it is laudable to want mental illness treated early rather than end up in tragedy) but in practical terms our ability to be free agents depends pretty heavily on the right to act in a way others perceive to be weird without fear of being locked away. If this means that occasionally a person with mental illness will slip through the cracks and perpetrate something horrible, then that’s the cost, high though it may be.
I am mentally ill.
Depression, anxiety, ADD, and PTSD.
Does that automatically make me a danger to society? Or am I capable of being a productive citizen despite my illness?
I don’t want a return to the days of institutionalizing everyone with a hint of mental illness, like we’re all just bombs waiting to explode. Part of my treatment, part of my continuing recovery, is participating in society as best I can.
Nah, I definitely think you should be euthanized. Only way.
I’ve read a lot of your postings, and you’re obviously coping with your mental illness quite well. It’s the people who refuse to even consider that they may have a problem, even though they are acting out in destructive ways, that I am concerned about. A while back I subbed for a high school art class, and there was a lid who would not stay in his chair, but wandered around the room messing with the other kids’ projects. I sent him down to detention, and later found out that his parents keep moving him from school to school, and that his father doesn’t believe in mental illness. While he hasn’t physically attacked anyone, his behaviors are bizarre and disruptive, The kid needs evaluation and help, but probably won’t get any until he drops out of school and gets into trouble with the law (if then.) Is having his school years wasted because the adults around him won’t/can’t do anything his civil right?
I think it’s a violation of his civil rights, actually, that he is not getting the evaluation and help that he is entitled to. If a child has problems that obvious, and the parents are refusing to do anything about it, that’s negligence, bordering on abuse, as the child is suffering.
It’s definitely denial. Acknowledging that there is a problem is the first step, no?
Agreed. By most definitions, I should probably be locked away for a permanent vacation in a white room with padded walls. But as long as I’m thoughtful and careful, I’m an okay person. I generally know when I’m about to hit a bad patch, and I can remove myself from society for a few days until it passes. I don’t need someone else to determine whether or not I’m fit to be a functioning member of society. I may be sick, but I’m in graduate school on fellowship, working, and in a healthy relationship. Mental illness and functional human being are not mutually exclusive, please no-one forget that.
@Elem
Got to agree that I don’t see how more intervention, unless it was mandatory, would help. You’ve got the big question of when to intervene; yep it’s great when you get the right person but what about the other 999 times that you don’t. What would help is more understanding of what mental illness is and more cash for support services. Unfortunately there’s no votes in stumping up the cash for treating “loonies” but lots when you buy a new MRI scanner.
You might be right — and if so, this only makes what these teabaggers are doing even worse than it already is … they’re taking a (now-deceased) victim of mental illness and touting him as their own hero. In other words, they’re using a person’s mental illness as an ideological weapon with which to bludgeon their opponents.
Doesn’t reflect well on their character.
How in the heck is this a display of mental illness?
Mr. Stack was angry and pissed off at a government that does nothing but take from us. I can not believe the naivety of people on here.
This guy had the guts to make the greatest sacrifice for something he believed in and you try to call him crazy? You are the crazy people.
Our forefacthers must be turning in their graves at all the politically correct pansies that now populate this country.
Violence?!?!?!? Oh no, he must be crazy!!!
Despite the fact that we have a government that is sending unmanned machines around killing civilians…but yeah, Mr. Stack is crazy.
Give me a break!
I probably shouldn’t fee the troll, but…
Had things gone according to plan, he would have killed civilians too, and had every reason to believe that there would be casualties other than himself. To respond to a tax dispute with smashing a plane into a building seems enormously over the top and the post you are quoting refers to earlier signs that he was suffering from mental illness, not just an attack on the government.
I’m not sure how it is naive to think that there is something more complex to this story than an angry man doing something angry. It’s really the opposite – to think this is just about the big bad government, and endangering the lives of anyone in and around the building can be justified because he has a beef with people in power far, far away, is rather naive itself.
Shame on you for comparing the Founding Fathers of the US to a nutjob with a confused manifesto scribbled from Alex Jones transcripts.
The Founding Fathers tried peaceful protest, then they tried non-violent civil action. The British fired on them first; their revolution was really self-defense.
Very different from a crank who thinks the President is a Muslim Kenyan who cooperated in 9/11 and flies a plane into a building.
I will comment only on the items for which I have professional or scientific knowledge:
first, the safety net for the mentally ill in this country is in such a shambles that people who are literally raving lunatics and/or are trying to off themselves on a semi regular basis cannot get consistent meds or medical attention unless they or a family member can afford to pay for it out-of-pocket. The best the rest can hope for is the occasional three-day-hold when they bring themselves to the direct attention of the police or get picked up out of the gutter. Anyone who can function semi-normally on a day-to-day basis is totally off the radar as far as public mental health is concerned. Taking away an adult human’s right to refuse treatment is a very,very big deal – far more so even than false arrest – so it is probably better to err on the side of personal liberty. Even the raving insane are rarely dangerous.
Second, the active ingredient in rat poison is warfarin, aka coumadin. It prevents the blood from clotting, and in excess causes massive internal bleeding and death. In very small amounts, it saves lives and mental health by preventing clots and therefore heart attacks and strokes in those prone to them.
Third the allignment with galactic center has already come and gone without any popular notice.
Well, that’s one of the more common rat poison, but there are several others. Some even use massive doses of fluoride complexes. Sodium fluoroacetate is the most common of those, but it’s not used anywhere as often as warafin, arsenic or strychnine.
And just because vitamin D is highly toxic to rats (used as rat poison in far lower doses than fluoride compounds) doesn’t mean that tiny doses of vitamin D are equally toxic to humans, and that adding vitamin D to milk is part of a government conspiracy to make people passive and easily-controlled, does it?
noted: there are *three* compounds in rat poison (warfarin, vit. D, and fluoride) that are used medicinally in small dosages by humans, not just one.
Sorry about the double post – on my phone, thought I was editing ‘meds.’
This is no different than the OKC bombing. Timothy McVeigh was a member of groups like this. He was also targeting the IRS offices in the Murrah building. The FBI and ATF need to Waco a bunch of these extremist groups ASAP.
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