US missionaries are being held in Haiti for attempting to take 33 Haitian children out of the country:
Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive said some of the children have parents who are alive. The government is attempting to locate them. He says a judicial system needs to determine whether the Americans were acting in good faith – as they claim – or are child traffickers.
The Baptists are mostly from Idaho. They have been held since being arrested on Friday trying to enter the Dominican Republic with the children.
Haitian officials yesterday said they are considering sending the group back to the US for prosecution. Haiti’s court system was crippled by the earthquake on 12 January, which destroyed the Justice Ministry building in the capital, Port- au-Prince, and killed many government workers.
Since their arrest on Friday near the Dominican border, the Americans have been held inside dingy concrete rooms in the same judicial police headquarters where ministers give disaster response briefings. They have not yet been charged. A lawyer representing them alleged yesterday that they were being treated poorly and that one of them, a diabetic, fainted and was taken to hospital. Attorney Jorge Puello, in the Dominican Republic, said they were not being given adequate medical care and food.
I liked Cynical-C’s response:
Not being given adequate medical care or food? Why not? It’s not like there was a major natural disaster in an already poor country or anything. Can’t missionaries kidnap non-orphans anymore without all this red tape?
I think these folks were probably trying to do what they thought was right — help children in terrible conditions. They obviously went about it the wrong way, however. Their parents could be looking for them, and it would make them impossible to find if they were adopted to someone in another country without their knowledge.
This quote is disturbing:
One nine-year-old girl was crying, and saying, ‘I am not an orphan. I still have my parents.’ And she thought she was going on a summer camp or… something like that [when she was taken].
So it appears they lied to the children to get them to go along with them.
Do you think these missionaries should be charged? Or released?
Update 2/4: They have been charged with kidnapping.
Definitely charged! They committed a crime. If they had succeeded, families would have been destroyed. And chances are a high percentage of the children would have been victimized . . either turned in to unpaid servants or molested. Because, sadly enough, that’s too prevalent in their culture, based on personal experience.
Charged. They kidnapped children, why should they be given a pass for being missionaries? I’m not entirely convinced they weren’t engaged in child trafficking.
String ‘em up. Missionaries is a nice cover story for a bunch of sicko child kidnappers.
This has bothered me to the point of writing my own post. And, no, I won’t be offended if you prefer to delete the following self-serving link or moderate it to the spam can:
http://sartastic.com/2010/02/string-em-up/
Some Christians will lie, cheat, steal or even murder in order to convert the heathen. While Christian will talk about absolute moral standards, sometimes there are no standards when it comes to spreading the faith and preventing the heathen from going to hell.
Umm, charged. Definitely. They need a good shot of real life to inoculate them for their mind-disease.
Charged, but I’d say a light sentence unless there’s evidence of bad intentions. My interpretation so far is that they were trying to help, but are absolute morons. Charge them to make a point to other good-hearted but moronic people out there, but these particular idiots don’t need to spend the next decade in prison.
As more information comes to light, my view on how harsh the sentence should be may change.
“…but are absolute morons”
duh! They are baptists. (kidding)
I agree. But the fact that they deliberately lied to children that they knew weren’t orphans doesn’t scream “innocent misunderstanding” to me…
They should not be able to travel to Haiti ever again. I am not sure about the law, but they should have their pass ports taken away for at least five years so they can’t travel anywhere outside the US.
I have notice that all these missionaries have this belief they are “saving” these children because the majority of the country practices a form of voodoo. My guess is that if their religious point of view didn’t BELIEVE they had to convert the entire world to their religion, they wouldn’t even be over there helping. Which is sad that fellow humans can’t just help each other. There always has to be a catch.
I heard a report on NPR about this, and the woman they interviewed brought up a really good point.
She ran an adoption agency that specialized in cross country adoptions. She said it’s a really bad idea to pull kids out of disaster areas and adopt them out, even when they have lost both parents. Many people there lost children who were buried under rubble. If those families start hearing rumors about children being taken out of the country, they could start having false hopes that their children survived and were taken away. The children who are moved out of country also have serious issues. They never get closure on the loss of their families.
Good to read something on this subject that is intelligently written.
This may cause me to rethink my stance that the missionaries were right (in their own minds) anyway…
I am, an “ex-Christian”, of sorts, I still go by their tenets, but not the rites and religion..
If words were stones, I’d be dead from all the abuse over at CNN/Mixx..
They should be charged.
Where do they think they got the authority to take the children away from their natural home (even if it is largely in ruins)?
Instead of taking children, I would expect real missionaries to help everyone there – dig people out, help provide shelter, hand out food, etc. Not lie to kids and try to smuggle them out of the country. If their intentions were really true, why couldn’t they just fly out in the normal way? Why try to go to the Dominican Republic?
Does it say anywhere whether someone has contacted their churches back home?
Len, I’m in Idaho. About half of them are from Central Valley Baptist Church in Meridian, ID. The church is aware, but as far as I’ve heard, they haven’t made any statement beyond requesting their release.
I followed a couple of links and found these snippets:
“Willeit [spokesman for the orphanage where the kids were taken] said a woman from the group had spent time in Port-au-Prince before the quake winning the trust of people in an area from which children were taken.”
So someone spent time there before the quake. I guess it must have been prophesied. Pity they didn’t warn everyone.
“In Idaho, Rev. Clint Henry denied his Central Valley Baptist Church had anything to do with child trafficking and said he didn’t believe such reports.”
“Where do they think they got the authority to take the children away from their natural home (even if it is largely in ruins)?”
Never been a religionist, huh? DUH! They get their authority from God, and it supersedes any earthly law. LOL
Moreover, those childrens where from Haiti, a poor country overpopulated; they had a natural disaster. The best for them was going to US, no matter what his actual family wanted.
Not what I think, of course, but maybe that idea was in missionaries’ mind (and maybe not). I do think that they had good intentions, but they still did a crime on purpose, they must be charged.
Actually, I was a Rev, so yes I really do know. But I saw the light. It’s sometimes difficult to remember the brain-dead ways of the past.
What do you think? Maybe they should be marked(under surveillance) instead of full percecution of the law, maybe some are innocence. Let the evil commit according to her nature.
Fly out, from Haiti?
Surely you jest.
Using a bus and going to near by Dominican Republic make sense..
What we need here, in order to really be knowledgible, is for the missionaries to explain their actions…
And for the Haitians to do the same..
Otherwise, this is all a waste….
Investigative reporting, anyone?
Charged! All the other comments had the reasons I thought of. But I am especially fond of Gwenny’s.
Charged. Innocent until proven guilty under Haitian law.
Charge them – to the max – for kidnapping. For me this is an example of the unconscious arrogance that says “religion is always right”. As long as it remains unconscious, and we let it slide- or just slap them on the wrist, we are supporting the argument that ‘religion is good’. They should learn that ‘good intentions’ are not a valid reason to break the law.
Absolutely. There was nothing stopping the missionaries from aiding the children while in Haiti, helping at orphanages, making food and monitary donations, etc. – all very honorable. Nothing made them TAKE the children, except their “God-ordained” nut-job baby-lust.
All I know is, as a parent, if some stranger masquerading as a missionary kidnapped my child I would be pissed, disaster or no disaster.
The “law” in Haiti does not impress me one iota.
But, then, neither does religion.
The truth does, but where is it?
Charge them to the full extent of the law.
While the crime was not committed on United States territory, their status as US citizens and their intention to travel to the United States could put it under federal jurisdiction. Under Section 2A4.1 of the Federal Sentencing Guidelines[1], “kidnapping, abduction, or unlawful restraint” carries a Base Offense Level of 32, with a 3 point enhancement if the victim is a minor, for a total offense level of 35. That results in a recommended sentence[2] of 168 months, or 14 years. Of course, *33 counts* of the same charge would result in another enhancement. However, something tells me they won’t be doing that kind of time.
[1] http://www.ussc.gov/2009guid/2a4_1.htm
[2] http://www.ussc.gov/2007guid/SENTNTAB.pdf
Pyrrhic victory. Unfortunately what must be done must be done, but do you think it will overall be a boon to their persecution complex or not? I think whatever Baptists stayed out of it will just side with the persecuted do-gooders and never shut the hell up. Not ever. The only plus side is, well, justice. If you consider it a bonus, UF will have another source of material so we can vent about what’s wrong with these people.
Put ‘em on a chain gang clearing bodies and rubble, then execute them. That would be the Christian thing to do!
I take it, Boss, that you do not side with the extremeists, nor with the so-called Christians.
I am now, perhaps a Diest. As I see our world out my window, its beautiful; impossible without a “God”. Then ,as I read these posts or think of the Nazi death camps or the Romans and their games, or what some men have done to others, I am confused..
Good and evil seem to exist, sometimes man does not know the difference..
Due process anyone?
I heard the NPR report on this, and I could swear they had an interview with one of the missionaries (or at least someone who’s currently in the states who’s a part of the larger missionary effort).
It seems possible, at least to me, that this was an honest mistake. Maybe it wasn’t. I don’t have enough information to know for sure. But to assume guilt before any real, credible information has come to the surface is a mistake.
I should add that in this interview, the woman said that advice was sought form Dominican authorities, who apparently okay’d things. I don’t know if that’s true or not. If it is, it certainly affects the overall situation.
Well that makes perfect sense to me. After all, we’d all be nodding in agreement if a weird Mexican Satanist Cult swooped into New York and kidnapped kindergarten children after 9/11 – because the Canadian Government had said it was OK. WTF are you smoking?
This is arrogance on a national scale. Well they are only poor Haitian people therefore we have to save them …..
OMG that made me laugh . . but is, of course, quite an accurate assessment of the situation. I have found that putting the event in terms of your own life helps you see the other person’s pov. So, how would you feel if during a disaster groups of well-meaning people came to your town and took your children?
Very hard to imagine the situation in Haiti….
Until I recieve some good info from the Haitians and the missionaries(with whom I sided and protected…ha….), I might be rather angry….and dead.. most of the children had no parents, to the best of my knowledge…And then their is the language barrier, and the culture barrier, and the “religion” barrier.
I have more faith in the missionaries than I do with many of the internet posters, who seems to be filled with anger, hatred, fear….
I may have done things the same way the missionaries did……we are all human.
The two homeschooling parents who beat one of their adopted from Africa children TO DEATH for mispronouncing a word had dozens come to court to support them. Just because criminals have people who support them does not made them right, good or not criminals. I invoke Godwin, and remind you that Hitler was loved millions.
Yes, THERE is a language barrier. There is, however, no religion barrier. 80 plus % of Haiti is Christian, unless you are one of the “our way is the only way, die heathens” fundamentalists who thinks Catholics aren’t Christian. I’ve been Catholic, Presbyterian, Mormon and Born Again. Yes, however much you might loath it, they are all the same.
Ignorance of reality does not negate it. To the best of my knowledge many of the children DID have families . . .and, yes, the parents willingly gave the children to the missionaries. Which, of course, means that the missionaries were knowingly lying about them being orphans. Lying about what they were planning to do. Lying about far too much for my comfort. When you add in that their “lawyer” is a man with warrants in a number of countries for trafficking in slaves, the picture gets scarier and uglier. How many of those children would end of in the homes where they were slaves . . .molested . . .beaten to death for mispronouncing words?
Don’t have to have faith in posters. . . but listen to the opinions of professionals who have weighed in. I, otoh, find that most missionaries are scary, dangerous people. But then, some of my ancestors were Native Americans who were “rescued” by the sort of missionaries who kidnapped, tortured and murdered hundreds of thousands of aboriginal persons the world over. To me, missionary is another word for demon.
In other words, you have blatantly and with a total disregard for law and the best interests of children, done what you felt your god told you to do? Then you are criminal too. Missionaries are not above the law. IF there is a god and, in fact, they were doing s/he/it’s will, then they should rejoice that they are persecuted . .even if it means their death. Great, based on the alleged words of Yeshua, will be their reward in heaven.
Gwenny, your reasoning is strange.
If one home-schooler comits a crime, does that make all homeschoolers criminals?
Please think about this.
From what I am told, the Haitian regligion is African VooDoo, not so-called Christian.
And how many Christians are in fact Christians?
Please think about this.
Bear in mind, I was not there, as a ghost, hearing everything, able to pass judgement with complete knowledge..
Noone was, and I do not even trust many so-called professionals..
Were you there, Gwenny, to hear every word?
Nor, was, I, so, no jugement can occur.
That final paragraph….
think it over…
I’m not surprised you find logic confusing.
Just because you MIGHT find one good missionary doesn’t mean the rest aren’t scumsucking sex slave traffickers? I’m just saying, being a missionary isn’t a guarantee of goodness . . .and how can you judge their goodness, seeing you weren’t a “ghost” there?
Oh, and just for the record, I wasn’t saying all home schoolers are evil. LOL I homeschooled myself after a fundy teacher grabbed my daughter and ripped her pentacle off her neck and the school system suspended her and give him a couple of days off with pay.
“from what you are TOLD” Indeed. The official religion of Haiti is Roman Catholicism: religious demographics of Haiti are as follows: “Roman Catholic 80%, Protestant 16% (Baptist 10%, Pentecostal 4%, Adventist 1%, other 1%), none 1%, other 3% Just for the record, Vodou is specifically AMERICAN (ie, originating in the Americas) NOT African. The New World Afro-diasporic religion of Vodou is also practiced. Vodou encompasses several different traditions, and consists of a mix encompassing African, European and indigenous Taìno religious elements. In this way, it is very similar to other Latin American syncretist movements, such as the Cuban Santería. It is more widespread in rural parts of the country, partly due to negative stigmas attached to its practice.
Amazingly it wasn’t the countryside that suffered the most devastation. It was the predominantly Christian capital city. Perhaps it is the Vodoun gods who are real and they are punishing the Haitians for abandoning the faith of their ancestors?
Do you believe the Bible? You weren’t a ghost there, either. You never heard the actual words of whoever the Jesus myths are based on.
This means you will stop believing your minister?
Didn’t need to be. I’ve watched the video interviews of them defending themselves . . .the lies you can clearly see them telling when compared with what actually happened.
Nice theory, but I would wager you will judge dozens of people today and find them unworthy and even evil based simply on how they look. The life of the modern fundamentalist Christian is a life of judging.
I’m sorry. What exactly are you asking me to think over? Whether you claimed to be just like the missionaries who committed illegal acts? Or are you unfamiliar with the teaching of the New Testament on suffering for the Word of God?
Matt 5:11-12
Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Matt 24:9-13
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
TRUE followers of the words of Yeshua would not be fighting the law, fighting being punished for what they felt was the will of God. They would be rejoicing. They would be dancing in the streets that God had honored their people to be martyrs and have an assured ticket into Paradise.
Re: Gwenny…
I do not know how to converse with one so full of hate, other than to ignore and go away….Which does no good..
Please read your words,Gwenny…..
If a missionary did evil to me, I too would hate them, I think…My parents may have not treated me nor my sister well, she remembers more than I..Completely forgetting is a wonderful defensive mechanism..
Why is it that I defend the missionaries?
I see them being verbally attacked and accused of a crime. Not a pretty picture.
I’m sorry. Can you be more specific? Please directly quote what you think is “hateful” in my posts.
Don’t let me keep you here. Although I’m quite capable of logically countering your ill-thought out appeals to emotion for as long as you are can making them.
::reads:: Brilliant! I’m brilliant. LOL See how I deftly use statistics to support my claims. And my clever use of your own scriptures to teach you a lesson?
Let me recommend, based on this, that you seek professional help. If you are saying your parents were missionaries and they abused you so badly you are glad not to remember, you need help. I’m serious. There is not hate here. I’m a survivor of parentable abuse at a level that would make a great made for tv movie. It’s a LONG hard struggle to anything remotely resembling sanity. I spent 35 years bouncing from Christian religion to increasingly restrictive Christina religion until I ended up Born Again about 20 years ago, crashed and burned and got medication. Now I’m an atheist. Getting help won’t make you an atheist, btw, I know plenty of recovered people who are content to continue as believers. But they’ve gotten help and found the way out of the morass of self-hatred and abuse.
Do you have any problem with the perpetrators of 9/11 being verbally attacked? How about the man who kept that girl imprisoned in his backyard for 18 years? Both of these thought they were doing the will of their god. Why should missionaries get a pass on being criminals, JUST because they claim to be doing the will of their imaginary friend?
I’m serious about talking to someone about your childhood! There is a way out of the nightmare. I hope you can find it.
“I may have done things the same way the missionaries did……we are all human.”
But we all don’t have to be criminal humans.
“I may have done things the same way the missionaries did……we are all human.”
But we all don’t have to be criminal humans.
Have the missionaries been tried and convicted in a court of law; or have they been convicted over the internet, by those with little knowledge and big opinions?
“they been convicted over the internet, by those with little knowledge and big opinions?”
Yes yes they have.
You did.
You’ve already acquitted them.
errr. why would it matter if they cleared it with the Dominican authorities? That’s where they were trafficking the children to, not from.
Charge them. the sense of entitlement and ‘domination’ that these people have needs to be battered down a few notches.
This is a bibbie, and a good point.
Define authorities.
For all I know, all of them may be using the wrong orfice from which to speak.
Getting advice from a government that is historically at odds with Haiti was probably a bad idea. If there was a disaster in Pakistan, I would not ask the Indian government for legal advice in extracting children.
I don’t think that the advice received changes the crime committed. It might affect the sentencing, but they should still be charged and tried.
To be clear, I’m not defending their actions. I’m saying I don’t think we currently know enough to be sure. They obviously broke the law; I don’t think there’s doubt about that. But we don’t know their intentions. I think it’s at least possible that they were doing the right thing in their own mind. That doesn’t make it right, but if that’s true, then “laying the book at them” as has been proposed several times above, is extreme.
Due process. Let the authorities investigate it and find out what really went on. Go on from there. That’s all I’m saying.
“Doing the right thing in their mind” could have included everything from selling these kids into slavery to “just merely” illegally taking them without any legal permission (in other words: kidnapping). And since they obviously broke the law, and did so with impunity, I see no reason that the book shouldn’t be thrown at them.
So, charge them with a crime, and marshal evidence so a jury can determine if they’re innocent (and should be released) or guilty (and should be punished)?
Isn’t that what due process is?
Of course, assuming an investigation merits bringing a charge — again, that’s all part of due process.
Well, erm, well, we were just doing a good deed! It’s ok because we didn’t know it was a serious federal crime and insane. It seemed reasonable to us, someone in charge of something said it was cool, how were we to suppose you’d think there was something wrong with it?
Seriously, do you think they should get a lesser charge because (maybe) they’re stupid and well-meaning? Ignorance of the law is no excuse. I hope you don’t think that meaning well exempts them from the severity of their crime. You seem to be implying that if due process yadda-yadda explored into their reasoning, they might consider this apples and oranges to actual abduction. Facts of the case do not, and are not supposed to be concerned with why you did it or why you were stupid enough to reason that “but this was different.”
“we don’t know their intentions”
Don”t we? I think one of the missionaries said her group wanted to:
“provide a loving Christian homelike environment”
That environment was going to include facilities for bringing in prospective adoptive parents to the converted resort where the kids would be incarcerated, er, housed. Of course, it’s coming out that some parents weren’t, when they gave up custody of their kids, told their offspring would be put up for adoption.
“provide a loving Christian homelike environment”
Re: intentions. Okay, let’s assume that’s credible information. Does that equal human trafficking and slavery? Because those things are assumed in several of the comments in this thread, so that’s the context of my comments.
Do we really know that human trafficking was their intention? No, we do not. That’s what I’m saying.
“Do we really know that human trafficking was their intention?”
I don’t. Although, if they intended to find adoptive parents for these kids, it amounts to trafficking.
The parents of the kids didn’t think their children were going to adopted. And the people who took the kids, from press reports, claimed these kids were orphans.
Beyond that, to “provide a loving Christian homelike environment” is creepy.
Imagine if some do-gooder Haitians had come to New York after 9/11, and taken kids on a similar pretext of helping them (and misrepresenting that the kids were all orphans), in order to “provide a loving Voodoo homelike environment.”And imagine that they intended to place these kids in homes where they would be inculcated with the “loving” precepts of Voodooism.
From there, I don’t think it’s difficult to imagine this odd assemblage of kids and adults would have been stopped at the border, with the adults detained at least until matters could be sorted out.
Does it matter what their intentions were, considering they *were* taking children, illegaly, out of the country?
It doesn’t. It might alleviate their sentence in the end, or even exculpate them, but it does *not* dismiss the fact they were taking children illegally out of the country.
Charging the perpetrators with a crime is part of due process.
Absolutely. Their intent is irrelevant to their guilt; If they did it, they are guilty, end of story. Intent is only a factor when it comes to deciding on a suitable punishment.
Actually this depends on the charge. If it is a crime of which intent is an element then their intent is extremely relevant.
That’s factually incorrect. Not all killing is murder, and not even all murder is regarded to be the same, at least in the USA. 1st degree, 2nd degree, etc., etc., with further deliniation for manslaughter 1 and 2 (are there more?).
Intent is not only considered in the punishment; intent matters when it comes to defining the charge itself.
Intent is absolutely relevant.
If it’s different in the UK, then there’s our issue; I know nothing about law in Britain, so I can’t say.
I have to agree with brgulker. There just isn’t enough in this story to know whether a crime should be charged. It seems to me there is enough here for an investigation of whether charges should be brought, but every story has two sides and this article surely doesn’t show all of this story.
Thanks, Bill. That’s all I’m trying to say. We just don’t know enough of this story to know with certainty. There has to be an investigation which brings the facts, whatever they are, to light.
Okay, so my original comment about due process should have been given more context. Early up in this comment thread, several commenters (in my eyes anyway) are leaping to conclusions.
This blog self-identifies as being “reasonable” and “skeptical.” Those phrases, for me at least, trigger the notion of make decisions based on evidence (or a lack thereof).
As I see it, there is very little that we actually know about this case. We have reports from here, quotes from there, and stories from somewhere else. These “missionaries” may well be kidnappers who intend to sell kids into slavery. That would be horrific, and such people should be locked away. That is one possibility.
But they might not be. It is possible that these people are exactly who they say they are and were doing exactly what they say they were doing. They might be exactly what Daniel said they are in his post, well-meaning albeit ignorant people who made an honest mistake. That doesn’t justify their mistake, but that honesty — if present — should impact how we as members of various societies respond. Intent matters, not just to punishment but also with respect to defining what any particular crime actually is.
It’s obvious that this group of people did something wrong. I don’t think anyone around here questions that. But it’s not reasonable to say things like this,
because we simply don’t have enough evidence to support that.
Now, I don’t know what Gwenny’s personal experience is, and I don’t mean to demean it — but do we really have enough evidence to support the claims that are made there?
If there is, then I’ll join the “lock them up and throw away the key” crowd, because that would be horrible. But as far as I’m concerned, they’re innocent until proven guilty, and their claims about who they are stand until they’re proven false.
“Okay, so my original comment about due process should have been given more context.”
You want more attention? Here is your change and dont waste it. It’s only for my moment.
You make no sense, DarkMatter. I’m not trying to be rude, and perhaps it’s a language barrier. But still, your comments are incoherent.
I forgot about currency exchange.
Take their children from them and have them anonymously adopted to a foreign country. See how they like it.
I have to agree w/ brgulker on this one. While I can certainly believe that a church group from the US would do something underhanded like this (under the lying for jesus pretense), I do not know all the mitigating circumstances, or facts for that matter, with regard to this particular case. I cannot say one way or the other whether they should be charged, prosecuted, or otherwise.
It would be a mistake to jump to conclusions simply because I might personally like to see a few xian morons prove once again that their silly religion that claims to be the source of morality can’t reliably produce adherents that act ethically (let alone what most would consider decently moral).
In this case, they don’t have to be Christians to be morons, but this group just happen to be both. In the Venn diagram, it would be a small circle inside a larger one. I have heard of some celebrities offering to take a batch of orphans also, doesn’t make it right or wrong, but they probably have the means to ensure they are going through the correct channels… I mean hopefully, and disgusting if not, but that is just another example of potential to be a moron.
Just, I can imagine a lot of people think they are helping, but they can’t just walk in and take minors with the paperwork handed to them by another country, no lawyers? I mean, were they even too stupid to bring lawyers with them? Outrageously stupid.
I think they should be charged. It doesn’t matter whether they meant to do it with malicious purposes or not, they broke the law by trying to take children out of the country without proper papers and authority. I read in the Wallstreet Journal that an activist worker in the US talked to them before they went to Haiti and told them that they couldn’t just take children out of the country and she was pretty much ignored. I am much inclined to agree with my mother that they think they are doing the children good and also doing god’s work therefore they don’t have to follow secular law.
Charged, I learned a long time ago ignorance of the law is not a defense, so just because they may have not know they were doing something wrong they still kidnapped those children. If they wanted to help why not provide the orphanage with food and medical care?
“Rev. Clint Henry of the Central Valley Baptist Church told reporters, “we believe that Christ has asked us to take the gospel of Jesus Christ to the whole world, and that includes children.”
And the Web site of the East Side Baptist Church, had a link to the mission statement of the New Life Children’s Refuge, Haitian Orphan Rescue Mission, asking for tax-deductible donations and missionary volunteers. Paul Thompson, the Pastor of East Side Baptist Church, and his teenage son Silas, are among those being held in custody by the Haitian government for child trafficking.”
Link: http://www.esbctwinfalls.com/clientimages/24453/pdffiles/haiti/nlcrhaitianorphanrescuemission.pdf
Hmm… publicity stunt? Legal defense fund? $$$$$
I was sure something like that is going to happen when I heard interviews in the first days after the quake with people who have already completed all or most of the adoption process who where complaining about the delays due to the complete destruction of the Haitian government and the loss of documentation. There is a reason why the adoption process is so long and while I’m willing to give this group the benefit of the doubt they should be charged to make it clear that there will be no cutting corners since the next time it may really be traffickers.
“Haitian officials yesterday said they are considering sending the group back to the US for prosecution.”
Hmm … I think they will be freed under Haiti’s court, but I don’t thnk they will be charged in Haiti.
Well, gee, it’s not like religious people would mistreat children. Would they…?
Just like everyone else here, I say charge them with the crime. It seems there are reasonable grounds for this. That anyone would think its a good idea to take children away from their homes, family, friends, and culture is crazy to me. Of course the missionaries probably think they were saving their soulds from all that Voodoo and black magic in Haiti. Didn’t they all make a pact with the devil to get rid of the French? I would argue that taking anyone from their culture to indoctrinate them into another is cult behavior.
A few days after the quake I remember reading that there were concerns that people would take advantage of children, I wonder if the reporters thought there were taking about this.
I saw this on TV. There are claims that some parents (at least one) authorized the children to be taken; the parents wanted the child to have some perspective, since he could not support them.
If, however, it’s true these missionaries were there before the quake, who can tell whether they weren’t smoothing the path to take these children from their parents via seduction and promises?
A verbal authorization by a parent is not enough to think you can take a child out of the country. A verbal authorization from a parent is not even enough to pick a child up from school.
A parent can sell their child, however that doesn’t make it legal. How could you possibly think that you could just take children out of their home country with no documentation? These people were obviously not interested in the legalities at all.
The reports I have seen said the group planned to stay no more than a few hours in the country, and some of the older children had been told they were being taken to boarding school. I guess you can lie if it is for a righteous cause.
Charged. They need to face the legal system to determine what should happen to them I agree that somehow this will lead to “christians are persecuted” here in this country, but they’d find another avenue for purporting this excuse regardless.
^ there should’ve been a period between “what should happen to them”. and “I agree that…..”
is there an edit function I’m not seeing?
Charged. I have no sympathy for the diabetic either. She should not have been in Haiti in its present condition.
Being diabetic is not a reason to avoid traveling, taking with you your insulyne. Althought maybe it is a good idea not to do a crime in a poor country after a natural disaster if you need medication.
But being diabetic is a good reason not to go to Haiti. There is already enough people there that need medical attention, they don’t need someone who has a medical condition that could cause them to need medical attention to go there.
I don’t know what everybody else has heard, but news reports suggested that they were planning to take these children to America and allow families to adopt them for a price. I think the report said $10 000 each, but i could be wrong.
That does not seem like a very innocent motive. How can you not know that taking children and selling them is horribly wrong and illegal.
They should be charged and the fact that they are christian should not be taken into account
Charged! Something doesn’t seem right about it. Why did they lie to the children? Why did they take the one who have parents? I don’t think they were trying to do what was right.
Mandy: I suppose I expressed myself poorly. I’m not excusing their behavior at all – I do think they should be punished and that what they did is indeed evil. However if the parents gave authorization, even just verbal, it’s not quite kidnapping – but child trafficking. They did not forcibly abduct children, if what I mentioned is true.
In fact it might be worse: if they were indeed sweetening the parents before the quake, it might be part of a bigger scheme invilving selling kids into adoption, not just a couple idiots trying to “help”.
The missionaries were intent on rescuing those kids from Catholicism. After a decade or so of indoctrination in Idaho, they could be sent back to Haiti to cause discord within families by preaching against Catholicism.
“held in dingy concrete rooms” – that is outrageous. The child-stealers should be chained to a chunk of rubble, and those rooms given to Haitian citizens who so badly need shelter of any kind.
I’ve been reading the Wallstreet Journal these past few days and it really seems that these people really knew what they were doing was wrong. According to the WSJ, several people/groups (including the Consul General of the Dominican Republic in Haiti) told them what they planned was wrong and illegal. But they went on with it anyway, even lying about the consul giving them permission to take the children into the DR. Mrs. Silsby used the Consul’s business card as “proof” that they were allowed to take the children. This is seeming more and more like “lying for Jesus” to get a profit.
Update on this from the BBC
The past paragraph is interesting; seems like the good old “lying fo’ Jeeeebus” to me. Bottom line: Charged.
I don’t for one moment buy the “but they were just trying to help the kids!” line. The fact is that these Baptists did not have to attempt to remove them from the country in order to help them. They could, instead, have given those kids a lot of help, right inside Haiti.
They have also told WAY too many demonstrable lies about what they were doing, to have any credibility in the matter. Such as the lie that the kids were all orphaned or abandoned by their parents … patently untrue, and the Baptists knew it, because they had spoken with the parents of some of them and had gotten permission, from those parents, to take them under the guise of educating them … sort of like sending them to boarding school … when the Baptists were not actually just setting up a free school, but were actually creating an adoption operation.
65 years ago, when I was an innocent child, the missionaries could do no “evil”.
Now, I wonder.
Things change.
But the world is still full of hatred and ignorance.
Our internet may be making it worse.
People here are hanging the missionaries without due process.
This is evil.
BTW, the good standing of the priests and “do-gooders” is slipping, and has been for al long time.
I am NOT a missionary.
When they tried to bring Christianty and civilization to Africa, they may have done more harm than good. The alternative was to do nothing, but learn and accept, and respect.. Did they do this?