by VorJack
I haven’t quite made my mind up about Scientology yet. I like to stay reasonable and view all religions as more or less equally absurd. But Scientology is so transparently constructed that it’s hard to take seriously. I’ve been known to refer to it as “Hubbard’s Tax Shelter,” which isn’t really helpful.
Perhaps it’s because it is so young. Most major religions have had time enough to shed the embarrassing beliefs of their early years, like Christianity discarding the weirder beliefs of the first church patriarchs. They get a chance to streamline and systematize their religion, making it seem more natural.
But we have to deal with Scientology now, as it is. Which is why I was a little bothered when I heard the rumor that Scientology was making a major push for conversions in Haiti.
A new report on Gawker is worrying, but not for the reasons I suspected. Apparently the Scientologists are well meaning but bumbling:
I knew we were traveling with doctors and EMTs, but I didn’t expect to see 50 scientologists, in their yellow shirts with Volunteer Minister on them. They were completely unprepared for going to a third world country, let alone a disaster zone. One girl was in designer cowboy boots. I asked her if she’d brought any sturdier footwear.
“Oh no, these’ll be fine.”
I asked another guy what he’d packed and he said he hadn’t bothered to bring soap or toilet paper or food, but that he’d just “buy whatever I need at Port-au-Prince airport.” I couldn’t break it to him.
They had no place to stay, and no supplies — their idea was to use the ton of money they had to buy food to distribute when they got there. But there was no food and no water. That was the point.
This isn’t flattering for the Scientologists, and it causes problems for the rescue effort. Time and supplies are spent helping these people get situated. Most of it seems to be minor, but there are times when ignorance can lead to great unintentional harm:
One nurse told me that the Scientologists actually caused harm — they gave food to people who were scheduled to go into surgery. That then led to complications in the operating theater.
As Ed Brayton likes to say, there’s ignorance, and then there’s virulent ignorance. If the Scientologists are victims of the first kind, then hopefully they’ll learn something from this experience and be more prepared and helpful next time. But my fear is that the Scientologists are practicing the second: ignorance that refuses correction and is not open to evidence. If the Scientologists bring the same “we know better than the experts” attitude to relief efforts that they bring to psychology and medicine, then they may end up causing real harm.
“then they may end up causing real harm.”
More than they already do?
They are as out of touch with reality as their religion is. Let them go on acting stupid – maybe these examples will stop others from converting to such nonesense.
“Let them go on acting stupid …”
I don’t think its an act. :)
“I asked another guy what he’d packed and he said he hadn’t bothered to bring soap or toilet paper or food, but that he’d just ‘buy whatever I need at Port-au-Prince airport.’ I couldn’t break it to him.
What the fuck? I know scientologists shelter them selfs but are they that unaware of what the hell is going on there?
What the hell are scientologists doing in Haiti. It’s not like the Haitians have nearly enough cash to buy the xenu points, or whatever they are called, yoe need to advance in scientology. As for the idiots in the story, just kick them out of the field hospital and let them fend for themselves in the streets of port-au-prince.
Haiti may be the most religious country in the western hemisphere, so Haitians are an easy mark for any religious con artists. I’m just waiting for the Muslims to show up saying “there is no racism or slavery in Islam and our prophet Mohammed was a black man”
If the Scientologists bring the same “we know better than the experts” attitude to relief efforts that they bring to psychology and medicine, then they may end up causing real harm.
Then be prepared for them to cause real harm, because that’s what the core of Scientology is all about. It’s an anti-intellectual religion at its core, mostly because the founder was afraid of psychologists.
I personally think that if Hubbard had stuck with Judeo-Christian imagery for his mythology instead of writing his own sci-fi pulp mythology Scientology would be one of the largest religions in the US today. It tells people that being selfish is good and that experts shouldn’t be trusted – that’s the core of a certain stripe of Evangelical Prosperty Gospel Christianity today, and Hubbard’s church could be raking it in if he’d been a bit smarter about creating his religion.
What I have never understood is why people believe that a science fiction writer could be a prophet. I mean why would you take someone serious on things like a new religion when you no that person writes fiction for money. Although I might have seen Sauron the other day and Smaug might have flown overhead 2 months ago. And I have seen classified pictures of Roswell which makes me think it might have been the Millennium Falcon.
Dutchhobbit, let me introduce you to two interesting figures in history.
Joseph Smith was a convicted con-man. Well known for confidence schemes, people weren’t shocked when he created a religion. They were shocked when people actually followed him and believed the crap he was spewing.
Mohamed was the son of the caretaker of a pile of rocks that people worshiped. The rock worship had nothing to do with the Abrahamic god. Mohamed saw how successful the Jewish and Christian faiths were, so he co-opted them and blended them with his dads rock worship. I bet people at the time were just as incredulous about that faith.
If we had a detailed account of the goings on in Jerusalem in 30ish CE, I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that our pal Jesus would be just as crazy.
VorJack, you said “Christianity discarding the weirder beliefs of the first church patriarchs”, have you written about this? Or do you have a post coming soon detailing these juicy bits? I would love to learn about these weirder beliefs.
Now I’ll have to go look up what Jules Verne’s religous beliefs were. Too bad Isaac Asimov didn’t create an organization with a religion-like structure, it would have to be better than Mensa.
What’s unfortunate is that just their existance there is taking away supplies, food, etc from the needy. And by the sounds if it, they have no intention of rationing anything when it comes to themselves either.
Does anyone else give a sigh of befuddled resignation when they find out that someone famous they sorta liked or respected is a Scientologist? Is it just me?
Yeah, it depresses me to find out that someone I had respected (or at least liked) is a nutbar.
Does your befuddled resignation get offset by the upbeat warm fuzzy feeling you get when you find out Brad Pitt is an atheist?
I know I get these feelings. I try to think that I’m above it, but it’s difficult to suppress those animal urges. Its disheartening to see people you respect believing in rubbish, and it’s gratifying to see others that share your viewpoint.
This video on why Tiger Woods was so fascinating could easily be applied to this question too.
http://www.atheistmedia.com/2010/02/evolutionary-reasons-for-celebrity.html
I don’t believe it. Have you seen pics of Brad Pitt eating babies?
No but he hasn’t denied it either!
As we learned with the ‘Glen Beck won’t deny raping and killing an eight year old girl’ incident, lack of a denial is just as good as eye witness testimony!
You don’t know yet why he and Ang keep having or adopting so many babies. Maybe they are into agriculture and not really a family like the magazines portray them.
This happened to me not too long ago when I found out that Bill Maher was an AIDS denialist (and anti-vaccine, and anti-pharma).
And George Carlin ended up being a paranoid conspiracy theorist/borderline 911 truther.
*SIGH*
In Carlin’s defense, it’s really hard to say that for sure. Towards the end of his life, Carlin made jokes about just about everything, including things that completely contradicted his earlier jokes. If you watch some of the interviews he did before he died, you see most of the stuff in his act was made up.
I feel yeah about Maher though.
I feel that way, yeah. Disappointment. I don’t get too jazzed over who is or isn’t an atheist, though, I mean, that doesn’t alone make them worth a lot more of my notice, or a lot less.
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Seems to me if they are this bad, let them go have fun there. They wont get anyone if thats how they are. They will just hurt the “religion”
Travolta flew them down there in one of his jets, he managed to land and dump out the “ministers” while there was a waiting list of “real” emergency responders and supplies waiting to land.
The world just gets a bit crazier by the day…
Wow. Just wow. The ignorance this friend of yours spouts evokes nothing else.
Except maybe for the word Backpfeifengesicht. I can’t think of any other way to describe what I feel right now for this friend of yours.
I know a guy who lives and breathes Scientology. He thinks he is very intelligent, and he can’t be reasoned with. He knows it all, from banking and mathematics to civil engineering, astronomy and physics. His vast wealth of knowledge includes all aspects of psychiatry, pharmacology, neurosciences and the practice of all the medical sciences. Mind you, he’s completed nothing beyond his high school education, but Scientology has taught him all he needs to know. Scientology works for him so it should work for everyone, and that’s that. He hasn’t caught a cold in 17 years and his life is perfect and blah blah blah stfu already.
So when he started making a lot of posts with wild medical claims at a private forum where I am administrator, I had no choice but to intervene. One of the things he proclaimed to all the members was that AIDS is not real but rather it is a conspiracy dreamed up by big government and the pharmaceutical industry — and that the HIV virus is harmless. He also claimed that anyone who had the HIV virus in their body but were “uncomfortable having it in their system” could easily remove it simply by drinking pineapple juice. He learned these things from his fellow Scientologists.
Regardless of what anyone here believes regarding HIV and AIDS, clearly this man was touting unproven and potentially dangerous information as being the absolute truth. I asked him to retract his statements. He argued with me. I told him to retract his statements. He argued some more. Finally I removed his statements myself, banned him from the forum and posted a disclaimer regarding his previously displayed misinformation.
This experience was only one small example of dealings I’ve had with the phenomenon of Scientology in recent years. I do not see it as a religion. I see it as a dangerous mind-sucking cult which was set up to do one thing and do it effectively: grab money from unsuspecting individuals who mean well but do harm while getting totally ripped off. It has also managed to inadvertently kill a number of its adherents in ways not unlike the recent deaths associated with James A. Ray’s New Age razzle dazzle.
I think the arrogantly fraudulent “religion” of Scientology should not be tolerated even a little bit, and I believe it should be completely banned worldwide — but these are just my personal opinions. Clearly the United States Federal Government in its infinite wisdom knows best… :rolls eyes:
I see it as a dangerous mind-sucking cult which was set up to do one thing and do it effectively: grab money from unsuspecting individuals who mean well but do harm while getting totally ripped off.
That’s what religion is.
As for his AIDS claims, How about we get a syringe full of HIV positive blood and a glass of pineapple juice and he can come by prove his point when ever he likes.
Yoav said, “That’s what religion is.”
Well, yes, LOL, that is what religion is. I just don’t see Scientology as a religion. I see it as a faux religion. Somehow maybe this makes it even worse…or doubly bad?
Two of the main differences I see between scientology and the major religions are:
1) Scientology exists solely to make money. That is the over-riding concern, everything else is secondary. For the major religions, money is very important, but not an absolute imperative.
2) The leaders almost certainly do not believe scientology’s claims. They stay for the money/control
REAL cowboy boots are very sturdy footwear, but they’re not designed to be walked in for long distances. They are a Mexican interpretation of traditional high heeled Spanish riding boots. Cowboy boots are great for holding a rider in the sturrips while roping a steer and great for protecting the ankles from minor scrapes, but no matter how well broken in you just can’t walk far and fast with those pointed toes and high heels.
But then Scientologists shouldn’t really be expected to make sensible choices in footwear.
It’s worse than looking for converts. What they’re actually doing in Haiti is looking for cheap/free labor to export. If you call down to FLAG (their Florida headquarters), as often as not you’ll get a Haitian accent answering. They’ve brought back planeloads of refugees who have no idea Scientology will be withholding their passports and forcing them to work 10-12 hour days for as little as 200$ a month.
Seriously?!
Seriously! Scientology is organized crime, only worse.
Keep posting stuff like this i really like it
@ Revyloution
“Christianity discarding the weirder beliefs of the first church patriarchs”, have you written about this? Or do you have a post coming soon detailing these juicy bits? I would love to learn about these weirder beliefs.”
Need more fapping material, do you?