QotD: Worthy of Worship

by VorJack

The phrase “worthy of worship” is an important one in the Philosophy of Religion. For example, some people would say that a God that is not morally perfect and omni-benevolent – “all good” – is not worthy of worship.

However, this is an understanding that seems to come from centuries of monotheism influence by Greek philosophy. The ancient Romans honored all sorts of Gods, Minor Gods, and demi-Gods. There’s even a legend in which the Romans build a temple to the virtue of “common sense.” To most of the Romans, it seemed that anything that has enough power to deliver benefits to the worshiper was “worthy of worship.”

But all of this raises the question: what is worship? What does it mean to worship something? What benefits does it provide to the worshiper, and to the thing being worshiped? Does it require absolute devotion, or just a pinch on incense?

And once we’ve decided on that, what makes an entity worth of worship? Think of Apollo in the classic Star Trek episode Who Mourns for Adonais? Would an extremely powerful alien creature who protects and rewards his worshipers be “worthy of worship?”

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73 Responses to QotD: Worthy of Worship

  1. beyonddeities says:

    I would say the act of sacrifice, or sacrificing something, is usually part of the whole worshipping gig. I am too hungover to be here.

  2. Mike says:

    “Would an extremely powerful alien creature who protects and rewards his worshipers be “worthy of worship?”

    Worthy or not, it would be pragmatic.

    • Francesc says:

      And safer.
      All hail the Ori!

      • brgulker says:

        Hallowed are the Ori.

        • Elemenope says:

          I’d be curious to know how you would define worship.

          • brgulker says:

            Lame jokes aside, here’s a quick and hurried summary of how worship functions in my life. I do not picture God as a being who craves/needs worship. That sort of God feels juvenile and insecure to me, like an adolescent constantly obsessed about his/her looks and attire. I don’t see worship as placating an angry God and/or better positioning myself in God’s “favor.”

            In my life, worship is fundamentally concerned with expressing gratitude and joy, celebrating life, goodness, and beauty, etc. I am alive – what a gift! I am being redeemed (i.e., in the process of becoming more and better than I am)! I have a community to which I belong! What wonderful things! I can’t help but express my gratefulness, celebrate these gifts with others, and simply be filled with joy. On the individual level, I say short breath prayers, journal, etc. On the communal level, I join with others in song, participate in community and rituals, etc.

            Again, rushed and hurried, but since you asked :)

            • Elemenope says:

              Thank you.

            • nomad says:

              Like quick hurried summary. Very clear.

            • Allison says:

              Very nice. Given that definition, I suppose I am a dirt-worshipper. The earth does, after all, provide for us quite well.

            • brgulker says:

              That’s interesting. The Ancient Hebrews seemed to have a firm grasp of that as well. The theme of human beings coming from and returning to “dust” recurs throughout the OT.

            • nomad says:

              Didn’t they borrow that from Zoroastrianism?

            • brgulker says:

              They “borrowed” from lots of places. Religions are always impacted by the culture, philosophy, science, etc. of the surrounding culture in which they develop.

            • nomad says:

              Sure, sure. But that’s a kind of meaningless generalization. I was under the impression that the Hebrews origin myth in particular arises after the Babylonian captivity during which they absorbed the Zoroastrian creation myth. That it did not exist in Hebrew mythology until then.

            • brgulker says:

              I didn’t mean to point to the creation stories of Genesis per se, although the “From the dust” theme certainly appears there. As to which stories come from which specific cultures at specific points in history … I’d need to brush up on my OT scholarship. It’s been a couple years since I got that deep into it :)

            • nomad says:

              Well, I only have a cursory knowledge myself. That’s just my impression. I could be wrong.

            • Michael says:

              It’s all over the OT, from books as disparate as Genesis, Jeremiah, and Ecclesiastes. The theme probably began its life in Hebrew mythology in Genesis, but of course the idea existed even before then. We are talking about very ancient mythologies here, and they weren’t written down, so it’s hard to know who “came up with” the myth.

              I’m not sure if it’s always “dust” specifically, though, of if it is sometimes dirt or mud. I don’t remember that specifically and I don’t think it really matters.

            • nomad says:

              “it’s hard to know who “came up with” the myth.”
              Historians make certain deductions based on chronological events. If a certain theme does not exist in Hebrew mythology until a certain point in time where they happen to be subjugated by a people that does have that particular theme in their mythology and then the Hebrews emerge from captivity with new creation myths resembling those of their erstwhile captors, it’s safe to say they derived the new theme from them. “It’s hard to know”. It’s impossible to actually “know”. But one can draw conclusions from the evidence. Come on, guys. Let’s not reinvent the wheel.

            • brgulker says:

              Regarding the dust vs. mud vs. dirt — they’re basically synonyms in that literature, at least that’s my understanding.

              Regarding the chronology of when certain stories appear in the literature, I’m not sure that timeline is completely clear either, based on my understanding of the scholarship. I think it’s generally well-accepted that Genesis 2 is older than Genesis 1, and I think it’s pretty clear that Genesis 1 is very similar to other ANE myths, such as Enuma Elish.

              But generally, I think Michael is right in spirit, if not in letter in this particular case. The OT is a complex piece of literature (or better, a complex compilation of several different pieces of literature), which has been redacted through the Centuries and didn’t appear in “final” form until a much later date than the origin of the smaller parts. So it is hard to know precisely when the Hebrews adopted any particular story or myth, even though we can generalize with some degree of confidence.

            • nomad says:

              Ah yes. Agnostic scholarship. Anything’s possible.

            • Siberia says:

              So basically you define worship as being happy?

              I mean, I’m thankful and honor my mom for giving birth to who I am – not only spitting me in the world, but actually caring and raising me – and I do the same to my sister, but I don’t think I worship them. I celebrate life and beauty – I am an artist, after all, albeit a lame one – and there are moments I’m just stunned in awe of the universe and all it means, but I still wouldn’t call that worship.

              Interesting stuff.

        • Yabo says:

          I’d rather worship the ancients.

          But only because Atlantis looks cooler to live in. And there’s Weir. *drool*

    • trj says:

      There’s something to be said for pragmatism. I think God, as he’s portraied in the Bible often appears to be unjust, unloving, and an overall asshole. But if I really believed he existed I might go through the motions of worshipping him regardless of how little he deserved it, if I thought it would keep him from torturing me for eternity. My worship would be based on good old-fashioned fear of God.

      • Michael says:

        But the question of how exactly to worship him would still not be clear. Do you want to go old school and worship like it’s 700 BCE, sacrificing animals and such? Do you listen to Hosea and prefer to pray? Do you listen to Matthew and pray instead in private? Do you follow the ten commandments, or the new covenant under Jeremiah, or the new covenant in the NT? Do you rest on Saturday or Sunday? Do you follow the teachings of Jesus in Luke and Acts and focus on good works? Do you sing psalms and say the Lord’s Prayer, or do you again listen to Matthew and pray your own words, independent of the Bible? Do you tithe? Are you required to tithe all your possessions lest you end up like Ananias? Or do you render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s and render unto God that which is God’s?

        If you really want to just please God based purely on scripture, you are going to have some serious decisions to make.

        • Siberia says:

          And hope you don’t pick the wrong one.

        • trj says:

          Well, my first problem would be that I wouldn’t worship the Biblical God out of love or respect for him, so if he expected me to actually be sincere in my worship, rather than just pay lip service, I’d be doomed from the start. I’d have as much love for that God as I would some mafia guy coming to extort me.

          But yeah, it’s a sad state of affairs that the Bible – the collection of documents supposed be God’s ultimate written legacy to us – can’t agree with itself on the arguably most important point of all – how we obtain salvation. One could argue that this is because there are multiple paths to salvation. It’s a valid point. But only until you realize that some of the Bible’s proscribed paths contradict each other. Then it’s just another nail in the coffin for the Bible’s authority.

    • nomad says:

      Sometimes I think we expect too much of God. I mean all-powerful, omniscient, omnipresent AND good!? I mean, c’mon. So he created the world. How many projects have you created and worked on that did some unexpected things. If evolution proves anything it’s that God is a trial-and-error kind of guy. So he messed up a few times. NOBODY’S PERFECT! What if God is just as clueless as the rest of us, more or less. And these notions that he is omniscient (rather than knows a lot), omnipresent (rather than psychic) and all good (rather than a nice guy)…maybe they’re just the exaggerations of his press agents. Hey, just because he created the world doesn’t mean he can control it.

      Two words..Franken stein.

      • Michael says:

        In The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, one alternative theory to Intelligent Design (by His Noodliness, of course) that it presents is Unintelligent Design. What if it turns out our creator just isn’t that bright? Maybe the FSM got drunk off the beer volcano after the first day and subsequently fucked up the Earth? It would make a lot of sense. I mean the appendix? What was he thinking? My guess is, he wasn’t. RAmen.

  3. WonderGoon says:

    “What does God need with a starship?” -Captain Kirk to “God,” Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

    • Revyloution says:

      Few at the time realized how subversive Star Trek was to religion. If they had, the churches would have been doing writing campaigns to get it removed.

      It’s only anecdotal evidence, but most atheist converts I’ve met have at good knowledge of the original series. The reliance on logic and clear thinking, plus the episodes where they clearly throw a harsh light on the concept of god, is death on faith.

      • DDM says:

        Star Trek itself was always anti-religious, in a way. Gene Roddenberry made sure that in the original series religion was abolished; and lo and behold once that happened everyone is happy, money isn’t needed anymore, and the future is about screwing every green-skinned, two bellybuttoned alien in sight.

        • James G says:

          Let’s face it, the Catholic Church would be dead against inter-planetary intercourse. If you had to get rid of either the Pope, or a hot eight-armed alien babe, it wouldn’t be a difficult choice.

        • busterggi says:

          I disagree, remember the whole planet of Romans episode? Could’ve been written by C.S.Lewis.

          • wintermute says:

            And Roddenberry always hated that episode, the outline having been provided by the producers, possibly because Moral Majority were beginning to figure out that he was an atheist.

            The series he had the most influence over was TNG, which was also the most hostile to religion (consider Devil’s Due for example). But, even in TOS, the episode you cite was anomalous.

            http://www.ditl.org/index.php?daymain=/pagarticle.php?8 is an excellent overview.

          • WonderGoon says:

            “Return of the Archons” dealt with the more cultish aspects of religion, as well. The whole “Are you of the Body?” stuff was probably the scariest thing I had seen on TV to that point. (I watched it in reruns).

            Insidious.

            The episode you refer to is “Bread and Circuses.”

            • WonderGoon says:

              “Return of the Archons” dealt with the more cultish aspects of religion, as well. The whole “Are you of the Body?” stuff was probably the scariest thing I had seen on TV to that point. (I watched it in reruns).

              Insidious.

              The episode you refer to is “Bread and Circuses.”

              Sorry. Meant my response for busterggi.

      • nomad says:

        On the other hand, maybe that’s why it vanished prematurely and despite sci fi fans clamoring for its return media execs turned a deaf ear. Years later came the Star Wars franchise. And someone saw the dollar signs. Only then did a facsimile of Star Trek return. What was it? 20 years later?

        • Revyloution says:

          Good point Nomad. The Star Wars franchise is overtly religious too. The prequel even more so than the original cannon.

          • JohnMWhite says:

            True, though I’d say a main theme of the prequels was that the dogmatism and inflexibility of the Jedi religion was their downfall.

            • Elemenope says:

              One of the things I liked about the prequels (really the only thing besides the really pimped lightsabre battles that I liked) was the real sense that the Jedi so had it coming for being arrogant, stodgy asses.

            • JohnMWhite says:

              Though Obi-Wan claimed only the Sith deal in absolutes, it really seemed to be the other way around. It seemed only Yoda finally realised what they had become, but it was too late.

            • nomad says:

              May the farce be with you!

            • Elemenope says:

              The big clue was when Yoda gave Anakin the worst advice possible to give when asked what to do about the people he was concerned about losing. If nothing else, Yoda should have known Anakin well enough by then to know that his answer wasn’t going to fly.

            • Sunny Day says:

              When 800 years old you be, understand teenagers you will not

              Hmmmm?.

            • JohnMWhite says:

              Come to think of it, I take it back, I don’t think he learned much. He made the exact same mistake with Luke in asking him to let his friends die. Luckily for him Luke managed to resist turning, probably because he wasn’t raised in a crazy Jedi environment.

  4. mikespeir says:

    What is worship? By some definitions we worship much lesser entities than deity.

  5. Warren says:

    I think worship is a human impulse which served (and perhaps still serves) a purpose in the psyche. Being perfect is not necessary to be worshipped – but as many a fan of a human idol will know, we instinctively place our idols on a pedestal and imagine that in all ways humanly possible they are perfect. We are inevitably diappointed, we know we will be but yet we persevere. Why? Not sure but it’s fun while it lasts.

  6. Siberia says:

    I’ve no idea how to define worship. I suppose, judging by religious groups various behaviors, worship means surrendering your life and thoughts to the welfare of some sort of creature, so much that your life’s supposed to revolve around said creature and for that creature’s benefit, whether by living by or doing what the creature commands without question. Basically, a sort of willing, voluntary slavery to the worshiped creature.

    I seriously don’t know what would make a creature worthy of worship. I guess an overwhelming love or fear (or both) for said creature, which tells more about the worshiper than about the creature itself. Thus it wouldn’t depend on the creature per se, but on the worshiper’s reactions and emotions towards it.

  7. ikiru says:

    “Worship” is a word that doesn’t even make sense to me. No one and no thing is worthy of “worship.” It is part and parcel of absolutist thinking, which is, certainly for myself, foreign to my own way of thinking and being.

    I can think of persons that are worthy of love. I can thinking of ideas that are worth committing oneself to study or act upon or defend. I can even understand the notion of awe (having experienced it in relationship to the beauty of the cosmos). But I cannot fathom the idea of “worship.”

    Atheism, being the absence of belief in gods, naturally entails the absence of the notion of “worship” of anything.

  8. nomad says:

    One definition of worship is ‘to give worth to’. So the question becomes is God worthy of giving worth to? And how much?

  9. nazani14 says:

    My only reference for “worship” is how some fans act toward rock stars: buy everything they produce, wait in line all night for tickets, scream and cheer, etc. They do this because the star is meeting their emotional needs and maybe producing a pretty good show and music they will enjoy for years. That’s a bit like the Roman attitude; the object of affection has to deliver the goods.

    Worship like that of Job is more like the attachment of an abused woman to her abusive boyfriend. You have to hate yourself at some level to keep worshiping an evil or unresponsive god.

    Now, if an alien would come down and suck up all the oil in the gulf, I’d dance all night and buy the t-shirt, but I still wouldn’t offer up any kids or critters. PB and Haliburton execs? sure, take ‘em.

  10. ikiru says:

    Another thought: The corollary to worship is blasphemy– a sort of “anti-worship” if you will.

    As an example: I like Thoreau a lot– I mean A LOT. However, that doesn’t mean I agree with everything he said or did, not do I think he’s perfect. I don’t go about imitating him, but many of his ideas I find intriguing and resonate with me in more than just an abstract way. I think in many respects he is inspiring– to me. But were someone to say, “Thoreau was an imbecile” or whatever, I might disagree, but I will hardly think of it as “blasphemy.” Its just not your thing, fine.

    But contrast this to people who “worship” a god. When someone insults their idol (aren’t ALL gods idols, after all?), it is as if some metaphysical offense has been committed. Some believers seek to enshrine their form of worshipful attitudes on others through state legislation, some go so far as to murder the would-be blasphemers.

  11. Kodie says:

    I read this a couple times. Since I haven’t worshiped a god ever, I really tried to think, and it made me think of awe as well. Two different things. I am in awe of a lot of things, but I don’t worship them. I also don’t worship any person living, no matter how benevolent they are to me. I can esteem them pretty highly, I can be grateful, or even in awe of a person, but worship, no.

    Worship is, I think, to do whatever is necessary to gain the favor of [entity], and awe is just how impressed with them you are, regardless of how they act toward you. Worship is also a kind of love, maybe a sick sort of love, not like, for example, working (including office politics that make you act somewhat artificially to stay employed) to make money, even if you love your job; nor being the sort of person your spouse wants to stay married to. I don’t think that’s “sick” to take out the garbage and put the toilet seat down and not have extramarital affairs to avoid an argument, it’s cooperative living, respect, mutual consideration. The god who is described in the bible somehow requires the worship sort of “love” in order to receive favors. He loves you but he won’t do you any favors if you don’t worship him.

    The question is if god existed, and he was this way, would you worship him to gain favor, or would you only worship him if he were 100% benevolent…. any god who is needy enough to require worship has already failed the test. Anyone who denies worship to such a god (if he existed) may be putting themselves in a difficult position out of pride and integrity, but I don’t think even a benevolent god can ask me to worship him, much less this biblical god. I am not a puppet, I do not dance for nickels. I would have to admit that he exists, but I do not wish to live in tyranny. The usual answer to the question is that “free will” is not free if your other choice is hell. I have to treat him like any other person, I can be in awe, but I don’t owe anyone and he can’t own me even if he made me, he can live with me just the way I am like my mother, who made me, does.

  12. Chuchi says:

    To worship is to abandon your doubt and skepticism, and to give an outside entity power over you that can only destroy your freedom.

  13. JohnMWhite says:

    Having been raised Catholic, I would have said I spent my formative years worshipping god. However, now that I think about it, I’m not sure I ever really did feel that kind of submissive love that one would expect of a worshipper. I said my prayers every night, because I thought if I didn’t something bad would happen, like I would fail my exams or my parents would die in a car crash. I knew god wanted me to communicate with him because I had been told as much by parents/teachers/priests, but I did it because I was asked, rather than out of spontaneous love. It basically always felt like a deal, a business arrangement.

    Even as a child, though I would profess a love of god, I don’t recall ever really feeling anything. I would never sing hymns as those around me did, partly because I couldn’t hold a note but also because god had never moved me to sing, or to praise him. As my child-like mind wandered during mass, I wondered why an omnipotent being required praise for doing what would take literally no effort. I was grateful to god for certain things, not the least of which was my life, which due to the circumstances of my birth was unlikely to have lasted more than a few days. I was more grateful to my cardiac surgeon, though, and was actually able to say so because I later met him. Also, I doubt he would have stabbed me in the heart had I not shown the proper gratitude.

    Now, in church we would have shows of worship and subservience, such as kneeling in the presence of the eucharist and the veneration of the cross at Easter. If that’s not idolatry I don’t know what is, but on Good Friday we would get a big wooden cross and everyone would come down to the altar and kiss it. I did so too, because that’s what everyone else was doing and I had been told it was to show our love and thanks to Jesus for dying on the cross for our sins. While I did it quite willingly, rather than feeling full of love and awe, all I could think was “well thanks, Jesus, but you’re god, couldn’t you have done it a much less painful way?”.

    Anyway, my point in all this is that I just never really got the worship mentality. I can’t help but wonder if some people are just different, because even as a child I would only ‘give myself to god’ in the sense that I knew it was what was expected of me, and have never really experienced the depth of love that some people have that moves them to displays of worship. I also always had a problem with all authority, and though I was a goody two-shoes in school, I would frequently clash with the management (their word for themselves, as it happens) over their demands for unquestioning obedience. Are some people born to worship, or is it something anyone can truly do, if they find the right recipient? I’m not sure if that’s the right question, but I do see what appears to be worship in some people that seems to come naturally, and myself and some others I know just never really felt it, even growing up in largely the same environment. But maybe those who look like they’re comfortable worshipping are simply going through the motions as much as I was, to appease their angry god.

    • Maybe some people are naturally more skeptical, while others are naturally more like sheep.

    • Siberia says:

      Y’know, I think I was the same way. I now say I never believed, because I didn’t.

      I did as you did: played the part. I prayed because I was taught I should thank god for everything (and so I did) and because I was taught I should ask god to heal me (never happened). I didn’t go to church, because my mum didn’t (she has a woo-like sort of Christian faith), but when she went she took me. I sang along because I really like to sing. I sometimes cried during sermons.

      But I fell asleep during prayer, I masturbated and then felt guilty about it, but the next day did it again and forgot to feel guilt. My prayers were mechanic, repeated things. I never felt the love other people seem to feel. I was told stories of miraculous cures and lives changed and it never made me bat an eyelid or believe it was possible.

      Then the days I was sad I wondered wtf was wrong with me and why I couldn’t believe or have faith like they did, what was I doing wrong? God ignored me, but not only that, I thought of all animals, human or otherwise, who suffered too.

      I was never taught that Christianity was true and the rest wrong, so the variety of religions didn’t faze me.

      Then I grew up and started to realize I was really talking to myself, I learned about placebo effect and read a lot of mythology, and then I finally came out to myself as a godless heathen of an atheist. Then I stopped pretending.

  14. BK says:

    “Worship” was the key to the birth of my atheism. I started to wonder why an all-powerful entity who could create and destroy life at will (among other things) would need to be worshiped.

  15. Olaf says:

    Neytiri is worth worshipping in my opinion.

  16. nomad says:

    Then there is the manner of worship. Christian worship. Kinda bloody wouldn’t you say. Metaphorically speaking of course. Do we really want to bathe in blood?

  17. PuntyBunny says:

    what is worship – my take is it serves 2 purposes. One is to toe a party line & show where you stand, “keep the faith” is after all slang for stay with the group. Like in rote ceremonies. You’re making a public statement of your tribe. So insisting that people worship publicly, as churches do, is clearly part of showing power. On a personal level, I imagine that throwing wide the doors of your psyche, giving your all to this good feeling, surrendering, would be an entirely seductive feeling & that’s what I imagine a sense of given yourself to a god in worship does for people.

    worthy of worship – I actually can’t see any reason for worshiping a perfect god. That’s one of my MANY grips with xtianity. If god is perfect, why does he require worship? I would call egocentric insecurity a definite flaw. I’d be more likely to see reason in worshiping IMperfect gods. Like the greek gods. They were just your basic ego driven, horny, selfish people only with crazy diety-level power. Hey. If my crops are dependent on the mood of some sociopathic whacko with the power to turn all my oxen to fireballs, I thing shining him on in the form of some bending & pulling forelock is exactly the thing.

  18. SSlinger says:

    If there’s anything out there that started this universe spinning, it certainly doesn’t need our approval or accolades. The idea of worshipping some intangible deity is just a subtle way of mankind trying imagine that his view is more important than it is.

  19. Custador says:

    If it actually exists, that’s a good start.

  20. claidheamh mor says:

    what is worship?

    Could be just a feeling of rapport or (sorry for the overused cliche) “oneness” with — nature? I think worship isn’t necessary. I would find the Buddhist or Wiccan or “woowoo” type to be the least threatening, but then, I don’t feel the need for chanting or rituals. I’m uncomfortable with most of them, though I have experienced and joined in some. I feel no need for a once-a-week “fellowship”. If there were an entity, worship would be respect and affection.

    what makes an entity worth of worship?

    There’s only one way to get respect: earn it. The deity or entity would have to earn respect and affection. The only alternative is for the deity to demand them by threat of force. That’s definitely been Yahweh’s-God’s nasty approach.

    Think of Apollo in the classic Star Trek episode Who Mourns for Adonais?

    Done. Not too long ago I watched that one. He could be “good” to you and “love” you *if* you always complied with what he wanted. (Sound familiar, christians?) But he had the needy ego that had to be served and stroked. Actually sad and pathetic. Ooh, I could go back and change my definition of “worship” to “servitude, obedience and stroking”. (christians I’ve heard from don’t mind; they eat that stuff up. Because they’re supposed to.)

    Would an extremely powerful alien creature who protects and rewards his worshipers be “worthy of worship?”

    Not that kind, no. How about one that makes his creatures in his own likeness so they don’t need protecting and rewarding with dog treats?
    (god-treats? haha!) Christian God: FAIL!

  21. objectifier says:

    The powerful alien would probably be worshipped for the same reason so many worship their gods – fear of retribution by someone bigger and more powerful and at least a little psychotic. Occaisionally I might find a startlingly beautiful woman to worship, but I’m not young and buff or rich, so they usually aren’t interested in my worship and I get bored because there are plenty of other beautiful women out there. I have been working for a few years, off and on, with a writing a book tentatively entitled “be your own god” but I don’t even find me worthy of my worship. Maybe worship is just a bad idea, or at least one I cannot wrap my head around.

    This of course leads to that other question of what is worship, especially for those of us who do not believe in supernatural invisible sky daddies. I see people sometimes worshipping politicians, though this seems strongest when they are running for office and after they are dead. Kennedy and Reagan come to mind, one for the left, one for the right. When they are actually in office the facade fades but after their death it gets reborn. After his assassination, few remembered the bay of pigs but they did remember Camelot. Republicans talk about “what would Reagan do?” while forgetting his remarks about declaring the USSR illegal and the bombers are on their way. Also those who supported W going into Iraq seemed to forget that Reagan, after the marine corps barracks in Lebanon was car bombed pulled out the ground troops, remarking that the area was too unstable. No time softens memories of Ronnie nodding off at cabinet meetings or Jack with Marilyn Monroe in the oval office. Barrack is in that place now where we see him as he really is, just another flawed mortal trying to do a really hard job. The unlimited adoration by his followers during the election has faded but once he leaves office it will doubtless rise again, especially among african americans as he is the first of their ranks to reach the presidency.

    The same is true with religions. It was not until long after his death that the claims of divinity were attached to JC. I would bet that the same is true for most other gods and prophets. As the reporter said to Jimmy Stewart in the Man who shot Liberty Valance “When the legend is greater than the truth, print the legend” This explains why the bible wasn’t collated into the current canon until some three hundred years after the time of Jesus. Before that, they would have been worshipping a rabbi with a small following of fundamentalists.

  22. elizabethdamaro says:

    I only ever view worship as acknowledging the position of the pedestal. This pedestal has the idol on it. If it’s an idol, then it gets praise. And praise to the God of Abraham simply meant, obedience. That being said, I had no problem with worship to a seemingly arbitrary god as a theist.

  23. Jus says:

    Here’s a pretty good quote by CS Lewis:

    “The miserable idea that God should in any sense need, or crave for, our worship like a vain woman wanting compliments, or a vain author presenting his new books to people who never met or heard him, is implicitly answered by the words, ‘If I be hungry I will not tell thee‘ (Ps 50:12). Even if such an absurd Deity could be conceived, He would hardly come to us, the lowest of rational creatures, to gratify His appetite. I don’t want my dog to bark approval of my books.

    But the most obvious fact about praise—whether of God or anything—strangely escaped me. I thought of it in terms of compliment, approval, or the giving of honor. I had never noticed that all enjoyment spontaneously overflows into praise….

    The world rings with praise—lovers praising their mistresses, readers their favorite poet, walkers praising the countryside, players praising their favorite game—praise of weather, wines, dishes, actors, motors, horses, colleges, countries, historical personages, children, flowers, mountains, rare stamps, rare beetles, even sometimes politicians or scholars….

    I had not noticed either that just as men spontaneously praise whatever they value, so they spontaneously urge us to join them in praising it: ‘Isn’t she lovely? Wasn’t it glorious? Don’t you think that magnificent?’ The Psalmists in telling everyone to praise God are doing what all men do when they speak of what they care about. My whole, more general difficulty about the praise of God depended on my absurdly denying to us, as regards the supremely Valuable, what we delight to do, what indeed we can’t help doing, about everything else we value.

    I think we delight to praise what we enjoy because the praise not merely expresses but completes the enjoyment; it is its appointed consummation.”

  24. Jus says:

    What is worship?
    Very interesting topic!! To me, the essence of worship is *treasuring* in the heart the one/the thing being worshipped. (prizing, valuing, cherishing, trusting, being confident in, desiring, thirsting/hungering after, enjoying, being satisfied in, delighting in). The more you are treasuring that one/thing in your heart, the more you are worshipping it. “where your treasure is, there your heart will be also”. And then what you do in your life most likely will be an expression of that treasuring heart. What you do will be the measure of how intense you treasure and worship that one/thing, ranging from a pinch of incense, all the way to a readiness to sacrifice your beloved son as a burnt offering.

    For example, if people worship money, they will live their lives, arrange, order, schedule, and maneuver their lives in such a way as to maximize the gain of money, and minimize its loss. I guess the same can be said also for status, power, fame, sex, drugs, pleasure, happiness, peace, security, liberty, justice, virtue, wisdom, truth, gods, ultimate and absolute truth, God.

    But usually these are I think just forms of “self-worship”, where the ultimate goal is the self. To protect the self, to pleasure the self, to better the self, to expand the self, to improve the society where the self is in, etc. (Not that these things are bad at all…). For example, the worship of gods. For us who only give lip service to gods or worship from fear, in most cases, we are truly just protecting ourselves, and are thus treasuring our selves more than the gods we say we “worship”. So in essence we are paying lip service, in order that the gods may jump hoops, in order that *our* own designs may be served.

    (Though it’s a different story with the Buddhist “worship” of the Four Noble Truths, and the concept of the “No-Self”, and “No-Truth/Zen” and “No-Way/Tao”, where the goal is the extinguishing of the illusion called “self”).

    What makes an entity worth of worship?
    I think this is an even more personal and subjective question, and it ties to the “benefits” question. I think people will only worship what they have personally tasted (or trusted) as worthy. Like the song, “Lord, my ears had heard of you, but now my eyes have seen…“. No one will worship something personally worthless to them.
    (And I don’t think you can find a truly objective answer with this one either).

    Here’s a balanced article on worship, from a biblical point of view:

    http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/1983/406_Worship_The_Feast_of_Christian_Hedonism/
    “…worship is the most hedonistic affair of life…” — John Piper

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