by VorJack
After attacking King Leopold’s memory, I probably ought to leave Belgium alone. But this came down a few days back, and I’m not sure how I feel about it:
Vatican Criticizes Raid on Belgian Church Offices
The Vatican expressed “shock” on Friday at the raid on Thursday by the Belgian police of church offices in their search for hidden evidence of child sex abuse by priests. It also voiced its “indignation” at what it called the “violation” of two cardinals’ tombs in the search.
RelatedIn a bold and provocative assertion of state over church as anger rises in Europe over abuse by priests, the police not only detained the members of the Belgian Bishops’ Conference for nine hours on Thursday while searching for documents related to sex abuse cases, they also drilled into the tombs of two cardinals in the Brussels Cathedral.
Given the grudging response of the Catholic hierarchy to government demands for accountability in the pedophile scandal, I’ve been hoping that some country would take a more aggressive response. I cheer the Belgian attempts to force the Church to give up its incriminating document, and I hope that other countries follow suit. But some of this seems excessive. Drilling tombs? Based on what evidence?
In another example, the government confiscated some confidential files from a child psychologist, which may cause collateral damage.
A panel set up by the Catholic Church in Belgium to investigate sex abuse by priests is disbanding after a police raid last week that confiscated documents the panel says were confidential.
Members of he Andriaenssens Commission, named after its president, child psychiatrist Peter Andrianssens, met today and announced they would be resigning because of the breach of confidentiality.
Raid the Church, surely. But raiding related groups that were (I presume) trying to aid the victims seems like a step too far.
As to opening the tombs, they couldn’t have done that without a warrant, and they couldn’t have got a warrant without good reason. Neither side has said *why* the tombs were opened.
As far as I know, tombs were not open. They drilled a small hole and got a camera inside to seek for hidden papers and files.
Newer cement? Lets drill a hole and see whats being covered up.
The church never cared for the sanctity of the remains of those it killed in its quest for political hegemony. Why should we care about their tombs, other than as artifacts of their twisted social experiment? They’re fortunate the entombed weren’t tied behind horses and dragged through the streets.
Actually, they did. They permitted the families to bury their dead after the crime, or war, or whatever.
Anyway, it is patently absurd that the Church would hide any papers and files about a modern scandal in tombs that are hundreds of years old. So this action by the Belgian police was totally unwarranted, and seems based on a conspiracy theory as opposed to hard evidence.
Check the church’s safes, perhaps. But tombs; that is really crap.
Yes, sounds weird to me too, but maybe they got strong indications – let’s see what comes out at the trial.
Newer cement or signs of recent “repair”?
Lets drill a hole and see whats being covered up. perfectly reasonable when investigating an organization with a history of conspiring to cover up wrong doing.
This, basically. Time has shown that there aren’t many depths of dishonesty and deceit that the Roman Church won’t stoop to in order to protect what they believe to be their privilege.
What they said.
Fourth’d
Actually it is not that weird, what is the best place to hide a USB stick?
What about Hispanola? No one was left to bury anyone. You know of indigenous grave sites there?
The tombs are not so old: 100 years at most. They are the two last deceased archbishops’.
Moreover, the searches WERE warranted. There always has been an open conflict between the Catholics and the Atheists in Belgium and this is the latest episode in this war.
The Catholic: “They permitted the families to bury their dead after the crime, or war, or whatever”.The church here in Spain, who supported Franco, seemed happy to let people who died supporting the communists rot in unmarked roadside graves. Indeed, some people here still don’t know where their relatives lie. So you’re not exactly factually correct there…..
“Anyway, it is patently absurd that the Church would hide any papers and files about a modern scandal in tombs that are hundreds of years old.”
Patently absurd based on what, exactly? Their brazen, bare-faced audacity in the face of such accusations as to blame the victims, the Jews, the homosexuals, and anyone else but themselves and their fellow priests? Yes, perhaps it is absurd to think they would even bother to hide papers and files anywhere. Still, I do not think the site is at all unreasonable for suspicion given the church’s history of duplicity and the fact it was recently worked on. And why is drilling a hole for a camera to investigate as non-invasively in the midst of a police investigation as possible some sort of crime when slapping some new cement on a tomb to make it prettier is perfectly all right?
“Actually, they did. They permitted the families to bury their dead after the crime, or war, or whatever.”
Not in consecrated ground, meaning they were screwed for all eternity, and their families had to spend the rest of their lives believing their loved ones were suffering in hell. Forgive me if I don’t share any respect whatsoever for this church I once called home.
If this Andriaenssens Commission was set up by the Catholic Church, then it’s perfectly reasonable to seize their files. Would you accept the findings of a panel set up by BP to investigate the oil spill? I understand that victims of abuse who were confiding in this panel do not want their stories to be made public. However, I feel the state has a right to know about such serious crimes in order to prevent more molestation. I assume the Belgians have the equivalent of an ‘in camera’ proceeding.
If anyone’s tomb is going to “desecrated” I suggest we start with that meddlesome priest Thomas Becket. Religious immunity from civil prosecution has always been a bad idea.
Here in France, any trial involving people who were minor at the time of the supposed crime is kept under very tight confidentiality. I hope it’s the same in Belgium, so people having told a story of rape when young would not see their name made public.
I also hope that this is the case, but sadly enough you have the media and they don’t care about the victim at all.
Exactly the point I was going to make when I read that part of the post. How does the Catholic Church get away with using its own employees to investigate its own crimes? No other institution on earth could get away with a stunt like that. The government is much more qualified to investigate, especially based on the Church’s previous damage control over molestation charges. It merely shuffles priests around to different churches; it never turns in one of its own to be dealt with properly by the law. The Church is utterly shameless in its actions, and the Pope should be arrested like the criminal he is for covering up his organizations wrongdoings. If anyone here reads Richard Dawkins, you should check out this link:
http://www.irreligion.org/2010/04/10/richard-dawkins-i-will-arrest-pope-benedict-xvi/
It is the fault of the church in this case. They have a known history to cover things up.
But it is not that good because now new people will probably not dare to come out and tell the abuse, scared that everyone will know.
The Andriaenssens Commission WAS set up by the church. The graves were not opened : a small hole was drilled and a camera used, because work was recently carried out on them. Now, word is coming out that in 2000 Danneels refused to talk to a group of victims. He allegedly told them that there accusations were only destined to harm the church and were the result of a sick imagination. (Volgens hem waren de slachtoffers er enkel op uit om de kerk kapot te maken en waren hun verhalen ontsproten aan een ziekelijke fantasie. Dat blijkt uit een getuigenis van de voorzitster van de Vlaamse Werkgroep Mensenrechten in de Kerk, Lieve Janssens.) He said at that moment “I haven’t heard anything about proven facts.” . Well, I guess justice is now looking for some fact to prove. However it will be difficult, and the expectation is that justice will not focus on the abuse itself but on the cover up, as this can be proven based on paper trails.
So long as they finally smack it into the Catholic hierarchy that they DO NOT get to be above national and international laws any more. That’s what I want to see from this: Acceptance from the Vatican that they just can’t settle shit like this in-house.
No one expects the Belgian Inquisition!
Ha!
There’s a REASON Belgium is one of the most offensive swear words….
It is not getting any better for the Catholic church. There might be 5000 victims, the question is will these victims dare to come forward?
The Vatican was even upset that Belgian police dared to do the raid.