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Christianity in a nutshell.
nuts in a Christianity shell
LMAO!! That would kill ‘em! It’s just so hard NOT to poke fun!
I’m trying to figure out what this guy could be pointing at that would make sense for the conversation. Perhaps the recently deep-fried touchdown Jesus?
Once in a while reading the morning paper really makes my day. A giant Jesus statue burning down after getting struck by lightning? And it was referred to at Touchdown Jesus? A about fell out of my chair.
yes. quite “blessed” to actually get to see it on fire myself. lol. You’d never think living staying in monroe had such perks.
What nonsense. In no way do I demand that other people “tolerate” my opinions, just as I would do my fellow man no favours by “tolerating” his opinions. A free exchange of information is how we grow in our understanding of the world and each other.
It really irks me when people like you, Tyler, suffer from this misguided seem to think that if I do not excempt your opinions from criticism I am somehow being a bully or disrespectful of you as a person. I reserve every right to criticise, lambast, ridicule, or otherwise argue against any and all propositions you hold inasmuch as you choose to make them public, as would I expect nothing less from you in return.
Ideas are not people nor will they ever be and it is hardly intolerance the be “mean” to ideas. You would have us stunted back to the stone-age just because you think people are too fragile to consider that they might – gasp! – be wrong for a change by being exposed to differing views. What complete and utter hogwash. I will respect you as a person – as I do any human being who does not go out of their way to deserve my disrespect – but that respect does not in any curtail my freedom of expression. I will not and do not respect your opinions even if you agree with me.
If you do not like it. Well, feel free to argue against my views. I welcome it.
Agh! Sorry, my comment showed up in the wrong place. It was meant for Tyles. Feel free to delete this duplicate, kind moderator.
The fact that we see something we don’t understand, or agree with, and suddenly find it “so hard NOT to poke fun” evokes an image of a young bully in the schoolyard. Basically, it’s not important to me, so I’m going to trash it.
A sad comment on those who consider themselves enlightened.
Personally, as a person of faith (Christian to be specific), I respect your right to believe there is no god, I’m ok with that. I am also ok with those who believe in other gods that I do not. Why wouldn’t I be? (Granted, not all theists do the same)
We all demand tolerance for our faith, or lack thereof. And then quickly turn and beat on those who are different. Theist or Atheist, seems we all behave the same.
How can we eliminate the need to disrespect those who believe different? (perhaps we can’t)
I for one, will respect your choice and/or belief.
Anyone want to join me as people who choose respect and tolerance?
So you’re intolerant of us laughing at what we find funny? :)
Caricatures are always funny! ;)
Especially when the thing being caricatured does all the work for you.
I (as a former Christian), cannot tolerate Christianity. Not so long as Christianity functions the way it does, and tries to force it’s way-of-life (which is different for many apparently) onto the rest of the world.
Even as a Christian I’m sure you can also understand how wacky Christianity can seem from an outside perspective, or (like above) when summarized. That’s true for other religions too of course.
Also, “respect and tolerance”? Really? I know YOU may very well have a set of beliefs based in Christianity that emphasizes those things, but that really only comes through cherry picking, and you may find through time that many other Christians only say those things and rarely practice them.
One last thing:
“I for one, will respect your choice and/or belief.”
So from what I remember of being a Christian, you are going to respect my decision to ignore God (who somehow loves me) and then be sent to hell where I will essentially suffer for eternity? There seems to be quite a lack of urgency in Christianity regarding those who will “burn forever”.
I think every atheist respects your right to have your beliefs. What we don’t respect are the beliefs themselves, which happen to be absurd.
Tyler, in the scheme of things, it is we who often feel bullied by the christian majority in this country.
http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p459/NiobeVerreuil/Other Stuff/boohoo.jpg
Further, it is we who actually *are* bullied by Christians. It’s not just people posting cartoons on a website. Christians are actually fighting against the rights of people to get married, for people to send their kids to public school without religion being pushed on their kids, etc. Every day my daughter is led by a government official in an oath to a god that we don’t believe in. If the government did that to your kid every day, you’d be up in arms, I expect. But we are told we’d be “unamerican” if we protested that.
Atheists are discriminated against in the workplace, at the polls, etc. This is more than just someone drawing a cartoon we didn’t like. It actually has impact on people’s lives. No atheists I’m aware of had a fit and threatened to boycott South Park (or worse) when they had an episode making fun of atheists. We laughed. I was actually kind of disappointed that they weren’t as vicious as they were when they made fun of others.
Now, I do respect you, just as I respect other people. However we have a political difference of opinion on the matter at hand. In fact, the word “political” is a good analogy here. If you and I disagreed about tax policy, or the war in Iraq, or even a movie or a novel, you wouldn’t come here demanding respect and asking we please not ridicule the opposing side’s opinion.
I ask the question often, as do other atheists, why is it that religion is a protected sort of opinion that we aren’t allowed to debate in the same way we debate politics or art or literature… or really opinions of every other endeavor of human interaction?
And the point that Daniel makes humorously is also a valid one… will you please respect and tolerate our right to make comedy? Why not?
You can see we go back and forth on that forever, each of us *not* contributing to understanding, nor engaging the subject at hand. But rather each asking the other to please drop the uncomfortable questions at hand and let’s instead talk about how much we really like the discussion now that we’re not discussing things anymore.
It may help understanding the next cartoon (and the last) if you imagine it prefaced by these words:
“Sometimes, to atheists, this is how it feels:
http://www.webs05.com/images/religion/cartoons/atheist-cartoon.gif
Which is why we laugh at these cartoons. These are sad, rueful laughs of recognition. Try and step into our shoes as a minority, and read our stories about how some of us have been treated by our co-workers, our families and sometimes our own parents… and see how we’ve been treated by people who really should love us and treat us well, except we have a different opinion about unknowable invisible things than they do.
Beautifully stated Siamang!
Superb! Well put
“We all demand tolerance for our faith, or lack thereof. And then quickly turn and beat on those who are different. Theist or Atheist, seems we all behave the same.”
“How can we eliminate the need to disrespect those who believe different?”
First, you should look in the mirror.
Second, you should Look in the Mirror.
Third, you should LOOK IN THE MIRROR.
Fourth LOOK IN THE F’ING MIRROR!
Then you might want to ask yourself why you specifically come onto an atheist site, show no tolerance toward us, and lamely attempt to take us to task for somehow disrespecting your beliefs.
What, exactly, about this cartoon can you really be offended by or take issue with? It is in your bible. You may have a difference of opinion with the bible, but the cartoon answers the question pretty accurately. Nobody is just picking on Christianity out of the blue here, they/we are just pointing out an absurdity perhaps you find it easier to ignore, or just prefer to ignore. Yadda-yadda tolerance — please examine your own beliefs and/or the beliefs of people who believe in the same god of your bible. It seems a lot of Christians may be like you in the way they prefer to ignore the destructive, vengeful acts of god described in the bible out of preference for the cheery, wholesome Jesus character and all his “tolerance”.
Don’t you fucking dare bring up the tolerance issue when you’re a part of the most bigoted and intolerant group that has ever existed on the Earth.
It’s important to tolerate the Flat-Earthers too. Tolerance is important.
Absolutely… don’t you dare make fun of young earth creationalists either! There will be riots in the streets if we don’t accept their beliefs.
And yes, I just grouped YEC with Flat-Earthers, and Anti-Coperniscians too… wait? You mean to tell me thats the job of the Catholic Church?
sorry tyler, but anyone who accepts a belief system which advocates me being tortured for all eternity simply for what i believe in has no right to tell me or anyone else about ‘tolerance.’
You may have not realized it but you used ‘Athiest’ and ‘Believe’ in the same sentence implying that Athiests ‘Believe’ something
Just saying
Parad0x13: You may not have realised it but you just misspelled atheist twice in the same sentence, in two different ways… just saying.
Lol
He misspelled atheist only in a way, and a pretty common one, transposing the “i” for the “e”.
Hey, at least he was coherent!
I don’t know what version of Hell you believe in, or any, but if it involves suffering for eternity, and if you believe that any person deserves such for his deeds or thoughts in a finite life, then your belief simply is not respectable.
Tyler, as a former Christian, I call crap on your whining for tolerance and respect. Christian doctrine does NOT respect other faiths or disbelief, therefore it cannot demand respect for itself.
I will respect your RIGHT to believe in any dang thing you choose, however, I do NOT have to respect the belief. I will actively disrespect an ideology that disrespects me as a human, a woman or a non-believer. I will actively disrespect any faith that says some book written ages ago is more reliable and trustworthy than science. I will actively disrespect a faith that has glaring and repeated contradictions throughout it’s holy writings yet holds those scripture up as infallible. In short, I will disrespect that which does not merit respect.
So quit your whinging and moaning about respect. You can pray to your invisible friend all you want, just don’t expect the rest of us to bow and scrape just because you choose to.
Bully in a playground? More like student who makes fun of his physics teacher telling him the world is flat!
Well said. As a part-time animist, I’ll join you gladly.
What nonsense. In no way do I demand that other people “tolerate” my opinions, just as I would do my fellow man no favours by “tolerating” his opinions. A free exchange of information is how we grow in our understanding of the world and each other.
It really irks me when people like you, Tyler, suffer from this misguided seem to think that if I do not excempt your opinions from criticism I am somehow being a bully or disrespectful of you as a person. I reserve every right to criticise, lambast, ridicule, or otherwise argue against any and all propositions you hold inasmuch as you choose to make them public, as would I expect nothing less from you in return.
Ideas are not people nor will they ever be and it is hardly intolerance the be “mean” to ideas. You would have us stunted back to the stone-age just because you think people are too fragile to consider that they might – gasp! – be wrong for a change by being exposed to differing views. What complete and utter hogwash. I will respect you as a person – as I do any human being who does not go out of their way to deserve my disrespect – but that respect does not in any curtail my freedom of expression. I will not and do not respect your opinions even if you agree with me.
If you do not like it. Well, feel free to argue against my views. I welcome it.
“We all demand tolerance for our faith, or lack thereof”
I wasn’t aware that “tolerant” meant “never to be made fun of.” Nobody is saying you don’t (or shouldn’t) have the right to believe what you believe. All we are saying is that it’s hysterically illogical.
Granted we all need to be able to laugh at ourselves.
If this is innocent fun, I get that.
Sometimes it seems that it’s more about one group saying… “you, believe that? you’re stupid” And the response is “No, you’re stupid” And we’re talking about things that people base their entire life around.
If you’re an Atheist, cool. I suppose, if I found something comical about that, you’d be open to me saying so.
I get the humour. I just hope the attitude of respect and tolerance follows. I’m not pointing the finger at atheists or otherwise. I’m suggesting that we all are capable of hurting each other (intentionally or not).
Based on the response, sounds like I’m coming off as a killjoy… sorry about that.
We are all capable of hurting each other, that’s very true – but it is a lot easier to hurt each other when you can blame it on God, and it’s a WHOLE lot easier to get other people to hurt each other!
If you find some flaw in our arguments, feel free to point as many fingers as you want. Unlike you, we don’t demand inconditional respect to our ideas.
There is a difference between stating that an idea is stupid and tying someone to a stick and setting them on fire. Christianity has the worst track record of any religion when it comes to not respecting the rights of others.
If I were to see one christian who were offended by the actual persecution which makes up most of the history of christianity, I would be a lot more inclined to take their comments about persecution at face value.
I don’t mean offended that atheists keep bringing up the Inquisition. I mean, offended that the history of christianity is entirely a history of christianity being forced (often violently) on people. Christians have tortured and murdered millions of people in the name of a man who’s basic message was love and peace. But I can’t seem to find any christians who are offended by witch burnings. Plenty of christians who are offended by cartoons. But never met one that was offended by actual persecution.
We get it.
Concerned troll is concerned.
While I respect your right to have faith, I do not respect your faith at all.
I respect democracy but not the manifold lies of your faith that utterly despise many.
Oddly enough I like you Tyler, even though your a christian and your beliefs are comical you’ve a select breed of balls to post here and repost without malevolance.
Being said, your beliefs inhearantly undermine the basis of logical thinking infact thats a pretty good definition OF a beliefe. However if you can logically debunk Antitheism I’d appreciate your standpoint that much more. The problem is that all of the history that your clan have writ is so brutal and horrible that any attempt to decree “Tolerance” is laughable.
You don’t have to accept the history of your religion to accept that your god exists without proof, and so any claim that you are directly supporting the hatred and bigotry christianity and its cohorts have caused would be unfair. But if that’s the truth and you don’t support christianitys downfalls then don’t base Tolerance on any christian basis. If there’s a real undeniably evident deficit to making funny cartoons toplogically attacking your faith then please tell us because I don’t think many here find any REAL harm (Maybe just some hurt pride that needs a bible badaide)
For sake of argument, if the above is “caricature” of why biblegod created man, then I’d be curious to once and for all learn the real reason from any Xian: So? Why did “God” create man? At a minimum, this “God” knew that most of humanity would end up in “hell”, but yet, created these hellbound human beings anyway. The more moral, compassionate thing to do would have been to simply not bring into existence those whom this “God” knew, a priori, would burn. This way, those whom “God” knew would believe still retain the illusion of free will, as with an “omniscient” creator, that’s the best you’ve got anyway.
“The more moral, compassionate thing to do…”
Moral? What set of morals are you applying? Biblical morals? If you take God out of the picture, we’re all just animals, right? Are we going by the rules of nature? Do whatever feels good, and screw whoever gets hurt in the process. Have sex with everyone you want to, it’s natural. Cheat on your wife, it’s natural. Indulge in chemicals and orgies and violence, have your fill till everyone is reaping the bloody consequences. If any of that sounds “wrong” to you, tell me where you get your morals from. We don’t see morality in society or in nature.
Do you like to pick and choose some morals and leave others? Well if there’s no God, then you can open up the door to “whatever you feel man” and see how you like the flood of self-indulgence. Or you can argue with the pedophile who’s doing what turns him on. Is he a freak? Or just a product of godlessness.
Morality? What is morality? And what is truth?
What is morality? You might as well ask what is the purpose of life?
The answer to both is that there is no answer.
Yeah, the point I was making is that saying something would be more moral is calling into play a set of morals. So what set of morals is God being held to in this discussion?
Of course there is an answer: morals is a set of rules humans give themselves to live in society.
I’m asking which set is being referenced.
You need to say where you are from with your question.
Morals are in our society, withouth the need of a god. They may have arisen as an equilibrium point of a game between the individual and the society with the help of our ability to emphatise. Morals are natural -as everything wich really exist- and moreover, our ability to understand them is the result of natural selection.
Do you think that our morals are so different from the behavior of other social species?
Ah, the classic “morals come from god” falacy. So you don’t see morals in nature? Then maybe you can explain the behaviour of these buffalos (around 4:30): Why would all these buffalos risk their lifes to rescue the calf?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM
Of course buffalos don’t understand the concepts of “right” and “wrong”, but they instinctively know what’s best for the herd. Unless you think they also ate from the tree of good and evil and god expelled them from paradise, too.
I don’t hurt people and blame it on God.
I’m only speaking for myself. But I take serious issue with other “Christians” who do.
I posted my comment as a way to discuss tolerance amongst all belief groups. Seems like most of you agree that even if it doesn’t always play out that way, it would be better if it did.
I do see the humour in the caricature above. I just thought this would be a good forum to discuss what I brought up.
I do not see this as a good platform to defend my faith, or attack anyone else’s or choice not to. The rules of the forum say not to evangelize… I respect that.
I live my faith, and see no reason to defend that, or attack what you believe. We could discuss it until the end of time (and I’m sure that’s what’s going to happen). And then we die. After that, either there’s a god, or there’s not. If you don’t believe there is… why waste so much time arguing against it? Don’t worry about it. Have a good life.
Again, I’m trying to respect and accept everyone, as best I can. I’m human same as you and I already appreciate the comments pointing out that tolerance includes being open to ridicule and being made fun of. I can take things the wrong way with the best of them…
“After that, either there’s a god, or there’s not. If you don’t believe there is… why waste so much time arguing against it? ”
Well, to me the main reason is that people who believe there is one also (in great, powerful numbers) believe that knowing that there is a God, and knowing what He wants all of mankind to do, *legislate* those dictates on the rest of us.
I mean, it’s all well and good to go our separate ways on Sunday morning. But come Monday, many of the people who got together on Sunday were drawing up plans to go to my daughter’s grade school and see if they can’t convert her with a free bible and a tract and a “helpful conversation” after school.
Somewhere else, that same Sunday, a bunch of people in a different church were teaching people in Africa that condoms cause AIDS, which increases the risks to health and welfare for believers and non-believers alike.
Still others are mobilizing to use the power of politics to annul my mother-in-law’s (gay) marriage.
All under the mantle of “God”. They *KNOW* they’re right, and everyone else *has* to be wrong, because God “told them”. So it’s indisputable. You can’t argue, or discuss or do anything with these people.
There’s a bumper-sticker that says “God said it, I believe it, THAT SETTLES IT!” Well, no atheist came up with that bumper-sticker. That bumper-sticker alone is a more condemning damnation of religion than this stupid cartoon above.
No man is an island. We all depend on each other for a functioning society. In a functioning society, we *do* need to discuss ideas. All the ideas. Not just some of those which aren’t the “protected ones”.
“I don’t hurt people and blame it on God.
I’m only speaking for myself. But I take serious issue with other “Christians” who do.”
I’m sorry if you thought I was implying that you hurt people and then blame it on god. What I was actually trying to say is that you are defending in institution (probably with the best possible intentions) that has a really really long track record of hurting people FOR GOD.
By hurting people, I absolutely do not mean, hurting their feelings or making fun of them. I mean torturing and murdering them. For most of the last 1700 years, no one in Europe had the option to be atheist. You would be killed if someone accused you of being an atheist. Killed after several hours of being burned with pokers while your local bishop recited scripture at you.
This is not an exaggeration. This is the reason you are a christian today!
You may have the best intentions. You may be defending the better parts of what christianity can be. But no matter how many good people try to make christianity about something good, it can never be anything good. Never. It is too late. Liberal christianity is just one more branch on the roman catholic tree. If someone defends christianity, they are defending persecution (also the rape of children but that’s a different story). Whether they know it or not. Whether they are trying to or not. Whether they are nice people or not. It is 2,000 years too late to make christianity anything but the malignant tumor on our collective consciousness that it had been long before any of us here were born.
Tyler, I am sure you are a very decent person who tries to respect the beliefs of others. And I am sorry if any of this sounds like a personal attack. It is not intended that way. But because of decisions made by the christian church (I’m not talking about random christian wackos who drown their kids for Jesus, I’m talking about the people who decided your most deeply held beliefs), it is now impossible to broadly defend the institution of christianity without defending a lot of things that I’m sure you personally would never condone.
But as I told one of the other christian posters here a while back. You have the right to believe whatever you want. I have the right to believe whatever I want. I have the right to tell you your beliefs are wrong. You have the right to not believe me. You have the right to tell me I am wrong. I have the right to not believe you. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. No belief is entitled to special treatment.
Also, the cartoon does accurately describe christian theology. It intentionally contrasts different statements from that theology to show the inherent contradiction, which was probably intended disrespectfully, but this isn’t really a caricature of mainstream christian belief.
“I posted my comment as a way to discuss tolerance amongst all belief groups”
I’m curious as to you definition of “tolerance.” It’s not like people here are asking for legislation outlawing your beliefs, or actively trying to keep you from getting a job because of your beliefs. We just think your beliefs are silly, abnd as a result poke fun at them sometimes. We “tolerate” you just fine – we also happen to disagree with you and we say it.
Sorry for typos.
BTW – I’m not sure I see this as a “caricature.” As near as I can tell this cartoon includes nothing but accurate statements of mainstream christian beliefs.
Nox
You have now met… at least via the internet, a Christian who is appalled, horrified and angry about the atrocities that were carried out by people who hid their own agenda’s behind Christ.
I get just as angry when I see intolerance or injustice carried out in the same way today by people who use Christianity as an excuse for hate.
I would never try to defend that, and I believe that they are most certainly wrong.
I stick to trying to live my faith as best I can, and trying to respect and accept others. I have no control over any other person. I think perhaps what happened in this case is that for whatever reason, this hit a nerve with me. And part of acceptance is letting that go and respecting that people have a right to poke fun. Many of you have helped me to see that.
This is partly why I tried to open the discussion about respect and tolerance. To get opinions from those who believe differently than I do.
I’m glad I did. Many of you have helped me to learn how I can grow in this area. And this is one Christian who hopes to continue to learn to do this better in spite of those who continually attack those who don’t share their faith.
Fair enough Tyler, sorry about the angry tone of the last post. Go ahead and read the 2nd sentence in paragraph 2 as “this is probably the reason you are a christian today”.
Sorry, paragraph 4 should say “this is *probably* the reason you are a christian today”. The thing in para 2 about the difference between the official church doing something for god, and some random christian doing something then blaming god was actually quite central to my whole point.
“I stick to trying to live my faith as best I can, and trying to respect and accept others.”
That’s admirable, but the problem is that the religious philosophy you’ve adopted and espouse does *NOT*, itself, try to “respect and accept others”. In Deuteronomy you won’t find much about tolerating and accepting those who are non-christian. In fact, you’ll find quite the opposite. Thus, there is some inconsistancy when you say that you are “horrified and angry about the atrocities that were carried out by people who hid their own agenda’s behind Christ”, because these people weren’t necessarily hiding anything. It just could be that said people were/are being truer to their “faith” than today’s cultural/liberal “Christians”.
…and it also fails to explain following a god who – according to his own book – committed exactly the type of atrocities you are horrified by.
Nox
No worries, I get your point. No, that’s not why I am a Christian today. But it’s true that could be why many are.
For reasons I feel no need to explain, I have always sensed that there is a god. Upon my own searching and experience, I believe in the god of the Christian faith.
I believe change is possible, nothing is impossible.
In the spirit of what we are discussing, I do not agree that my defense of my faith is a defense of the atrocities carried out in the past. I do not defend it at all.
Let’s say I defend America. Do I then defend or support all crimes carried out by Americans each day? no…
Or maybe your point is that I do. In which case, I see your point, but I don’t agree.
Regardless, I do appreciate that you are able to speak to me in a respectful way, while also standing by what you believe. This is what I had hoped to find. And also, what I hope to get better at through such discussion.
Tyler.
My actual point would be something more like if you defend America then you defend or support the U.S. Constitution and the Revolutionary War. I’m not saying you are responsible for every instance of persecution carried out by every christian. I’m saying the foundation of christianity is persecution. The reason that christianity is the dominant religion in the world (and the #1 reason why most christians are christian today) is a side effect of how much the christian church did not respect the beliefs of others.
All that stuff about respecting other people’s beliefs was completely outside the realm of christian thought until relatively recently. And as far as I can tell it was mostly added as a public relations device. The values of the Enlightenment began to reach into christendom, and the church adapted to keep from being seen as an archaic evil institution.
But I for one enjoy having discussions with people of all views (including ones I disagree vehemently with), and I appreciate that there are at least some christians who are open minded enough to sit down and have an actual discussion. (I just wonder what your brethren would say if they knew you were talking to atheists)
‘just wonder what your brethren would say if they knew you were talking to atheists’
Good for him! What is an ‘atheist’ anyway but a label? Labeling is a terrible thing to do to anyone since we invariably reduce, detract or limit him/her in some fashion by assigning any ‘label’, self-assumed or otherwise. Dignify all humanity, for we are all human beings and fellow-men (and women) first and foremost, fellow travelers in time and each is of immense, inestimable value and worth.
Labels-bad, but no labels rather love and affirming dignity-mucho good! Ha :)
All the best to all!
“No, that’s not why I am a Christian today.”
In a very real sense it is.
I think Nox’s logic is sound. You wouldn’t have a problem saying “Egyptians, Algerians and Moroccans speak Arabic today because Arabs/early Muslims were conquerers.”
Similarly, the reason Christianity is so prevalent in Europe and its colonial offshoots is that it ruthlessly oppressed opposition, and made a point of evangelizing anyone it came in contact with.
Nox,
:) I would welcome their comments. I’m not alone here. I know MANY Christians who take the same approach as me. And I hope to see more and more.
The foundations of Christianity as I believe it, spoken by Christ Himself is to love God, and to love your neighbour as yourself.
This is how I try to live.
Tyler, please stop replying at the bottom of every thread all the time; use the “reply” button at the bottom right of the post you are replying to – it makes nests of comments much easier to follow.
my bad.
Will do.
tyvm.
Tyler,
For what it’s worth, I am a former christian who came to atheism as the result of a long hard search for god. Literally every relative that I am aware of having is a christian. And most of them are kind and decent people. I have nothing but sympathy for those pour souls who are still stuck in the matrix. And while I could never accept the bloody history of christianity or the flagrant lies and errors in the bible, I would never think of someone as less of a person or less entitled to their beliefs because they were the victim of a deception that I once believed so fervently myself. I don’t consider you the enemy. I consider you the innocent hostage of my true enemy.
“This is how I try to live.”
Maybe, maybe not, but you don’t represent christianity.
All this dark and false cartoon confirms is that you are still attempting to ‘see’ for yourself in your own (dim) lights. My (own) light is just as dim as yours, but its not my light through which I see in truth, but His. Ps 36:9 Until you receive your (spiritual) sight, you will never see in the light of truth.
He supplies all that is needed, He is that ‘All’.
All the best (no pun intended, :)
John C, have you ever considered actually contributing something meaningful? You’re either insane or the world’s longest running Poe.
Custy, have you ever considered actually hearing (as opposed to simply reading) what was written? There is a part of your being where you can ‘hear’ the truth, get in touch with it man.
All the best…
John C:
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
What do you hear there?
The same nothing that you do when trying to ‘see’ God in your own light of futile reason instead of the Light he offers you from which you may truly see. You know, that invisible (1 Timothy 1:17, 6:16) God you don’t ‘believe’ in because you can’t see/prove He even exists, can’t seem to ‘find’ in the realm of the senses?
There exists a dimension of spirit, a whole ‘nother realm and that realm is within you, housed in your inner man awaiting your discovery. It’s kinda like where we find and ‘unearth’ precious, sparkling, priceless jewels and gems, deep in the earth (that earth that is you, adam meaning man of the red earth). David said ‘what is man that thou art mindful of him’? Yes, that is the question, what is man? Furthermore, what (or Who) is in man? Its a beautiful journey Elliott, so get His miners light on and start digging, precious and beautiful discoveries await you.
“The same nothing that you do when trying to ’see’ God in your own light of futile reason instead of the Light he offers you from which you may truly see.”
What light has He offered Elliott that you see?
John C is not a single person, is an organization devoted to win the Guiness award because of the longest Poe. Since the beginning of times the title of The Commenter has been legated from the master to the best of his pupils.
In fact christianity did born when a Commenter was expelled (historians don’t agree about the rule he broke) and he decided, as a vengeance, to do a real thing out of the Poe trying to eliminate the sense of the institution. He called himself Jesus C. to mess with it more.
Ah, yes, leave it to a “True Christian” to spout-off meaningless Christianese to the unconvinced, as if that will convince them.
after all this talk about touchdown jesus, i thought i would just mention that i go to school in the area and saw it often.
but it wasnt most commonly called touchdown jesus, it was most commonly called butter jesus, because it looked like it was made of butter.
and then it melted.
I’m a Christian who is part of a group called Believers and Non-Believers in Dialogue. The first thing we had to do was learn to stop attacking each other for things that we did not, in fact, believe. I got hammered in our first session for believing that the world was created in 4004 BC, which I do not believe, and do not teach. The above illustration is another one of these. I don’t know of any Christian who looks at things this way, nor do I know of anyone who would feel it accurately expresses what Christians belive. Some do, I suppose. But please, don’t paint me with that brush.
@ Stephen
I’ll try to avoid painting you, but you do know that the 4000 BC thing is not something atheists came up with to slam christians right? It is a mainstream christian belief held strongly by millions of people, and a few hundred years ago your christian brothers would have convicted you of atheism and executed you for espousing old earth creationism. This cartoon isn’t a strawman, it is just literally stating the logical followup to a belief which is held by the majority of the world’s christians.
@ John C (and all christians)
Where do the Albegensian Crusade, the Salem Witch Trials or the Spanish Inquisition fit into your vision of christianity?
All the best…
The true ‘Christian’ experience is a much more radical departure from one’s original (first birth consciousness/identity). In the tragic examples you reference above we are witnessing a sort of self-preservation (which has roots in religion, not the truth, external behavior modification, etc) and holding on to the ‘life of this present age” which we are to ‘be dead to’ and attempting to externally enforce a faulty worldview, ie Christendom (instead of partaking of the divine nature, that original, made in God’s image and likeness…again) and expressing the life and nature of Christ in you. (Col 1:27)
A truly InChristed, mature believer is dead to himself, to his old life and now Christ (who is our very life, Col 3:3) lives His real and risen (resurrected as opposed to fallen) kind and quality of life through him (Gal 2:20) in ‘this present age’. Jesus, when asked why his disciples don’t fight, take up arms like others, etc (paraphrased) answered ‘because they are not of this world, this is not their homeland. The spiritual one will never ‘try’ and conform anyone to a certain behavior, will only model it him/herself as an example to follow, if they would be led in the Way.
We do not ‘strive’ to live our own lives, but have discarded it completely in view of the life offered us, now Christ lives His life through us, we are merely containers for His presence, his life and nature wherein we shine ‘as lights in a dark world’ (this present age again). Its a fair trade, he only asks in return from us that which he gave, and he gave his all, his very life.
Now Nox, may I ask you a question sir? How is it that, despite incessant curses, name callings and all manner of hatred for the last 18mos (with a few moderates mixed in every now and then ha) that *my love only grows stronger, brighter day by day for the wonderful people in this forum? You guessed it, its not me but Him. I can honestly say that I love those who despise me, yet not I. Now here lies the difference, these who label themselves ‘atheists’ can not (honestly) say the same in return. There my friend is the great chasm, is the gospel truth for ‘God is Love’. (1st Jn 4:8)
All the best.
You still have to proof it.
Why is it that people who believe in God have to prove anything, Proof of God is something that is individual, it is personal. I have a better idea why don’t you explain why more atheists commit suicide when things go bad for them then people who believe in God.
Atheists at least believe death is death, the end. People who believe in god are put off by ending up in hell if they commit suicide! Duh. I don’t know where you got your statistics, but that make sense. Anyway, you do have to prove your god to inflict his situations on other people. It’s not just personal if you make it political. And if you’re going to act as though god exists, you do have to show evidence, I don’t know why anyone who believes in god assumes everyone else has had a personal experience, or why they think less of those who haven’t, or who are smart enough to attribute strange experiences to the natural world rather than some supernatural intervention.
If you assert something is true, you have to bring evidence — always!
“I can honestly say that I love those who despise me, yet not I.”
As is often the case with Christian waffle, you contradict yourself. You say you love, but then you say that it’s not you. So you don’t.
Regarding atheists not being able to say they love people who despise them, why should they? Can atheists respect those same people? Of course. I would choose respect over love in such circumstances, any day.
And – I have to say it John C (could it maybe for the first time? [/sarcasm]) – those blocks of meaningless prattle are broring and counter-productive. Unless your aim is to either put us to sleep or just have us skip your posts..
Sorry for the typos – the sleep-inducing effect of John C’s wall of text was too much for me.
@ John C
Even though you didn’t exactly answer my actual question, it appears that you did honestly try to, so I’m going to try honestly to answer your question.
“How is it that, despite incessant curses, name callings and all manner of hatred for the last 18mos (with a few moderates mixed in every now and then ha)”
Just to let you know, I’ve actually defended you a few times on various other threads, and this is coming from someone who is most definitely not moderate. Thought that might make ya feel more loved. And I suspect that despite the curses and hatred, you actually find more acceptance here among the enemy than you would in most mainstream christian churches. I’m even gonna venture a guess (go ahead and tell me if I’m wrong) that someone with your unique religious views has probably stormed out/been chased out of quite a few churches. I’m guessing more than 20 churches in 20 years. Is that high or low? Most of the churches I’ve been in would call you a heretic. And that isn’t an insult. I tend to side with heretics.
“my love only grows stronger, brighter day by day”
While there’s no way I could really verify the brightness of your love, there’s also no way I could answer your question without accepting this premise. And you seem like a love-your-enemy, turn-the-other-cheek type guy. You’ve talked in other threads about your extensive volunteer work, and how it is motivated by your undying love for mankind. You seem very sincere, and I have no problem taking your word on this. But…
…that would change absolutely nothing about the nature of actual christianity. Surely you don’t believe that your own beliefs are anything similar to mainstream christian thought. The idea that god is love is a cute idea. But it’s a little hard to reconcile that with the scientific and historical evidence that god is imaginary or indifferent, let alone the biblical evidence that god is hate.
“I can honestly say that I love those who despise me, yet not I. Now here lies the difference, these who label themselves ‘atheists’ can not (honestly) say the same in return.”
I honestly can. You assume that an atheist can not know love because you define love as god. When I tell christians that their beliefs are destructive to themselves and to those around them, I am motivated by love. I am not doing it because I hate you. I’m doing it to help you. As Jesus C said “When you know the truth, the truth will set you free”.
You still have to proof it, sorry.
“The first thing we had to do was learn to stop attacking each other for things that we did not, in fact, believe.”
Perhaps you can tell us what *you* believe to be the reason(s) for why biblegod made people, since all of us nonbelievers are supposedly attacking a “caricature” of what the Christian philosophy actually teaches. That would be a starting point.
‘Perhaps you can tell us what *you* believe to be the reason(s) for why biblegod made people’
Because Love, by His very nature longs to share of Himself, to give of Himself to others and is inherently creative and so made man(kind) in His image and likeness for the sharing of (said Love) in fellowship together, with one another. That’s why it was a paradise, was Edenic, perfect, pristine, beautiful because nothing but Love lived there, they experienced uninterrupted fellowship in the spirit.
That original being (man) being in the very likeness was a powerful creature in his own right and so imagined he could ‘live’, or thrive of his own inner source and being (being ‘like God’ meaning self sufficient, needing nothing and no one) so he ‘went out’ into his (God-like) powerful self (ate of the tree of self knowledge, worshiped his own (powerful, beautiful) image. We see a picture of this in the well-known prodigal son story, man having gone ‘out’ (into self) in adam (son of rebellion, self) and awakening, coming ‘to his senses’ and returns back home to the Father (who was always looking for his son’s return) in Christ (son of love, of obedience).
There is so much more, but I’m sure you’ve had your fill by now Boomslang. All the best.
“There is so much more, but I’m sure you’ve had your fill by now Boomslang.”
So true—I’ve had my fill, and per usual, until/unless you can offer some kind of objective confirmation for your Christianese ramblings, you convince none but the already-convinced.
Any Christian that claims to behave honorably all of the time is missing the entire point of their religion: that we are not perfect. Making generalizations about Christians is often just inappropriate.
Beliefs should not be based on convenience. The only good reason to believe something is because it is true. Pick your least favorite US president. He probably lied, cheated, broke promises, etc., and you probably hate him. He was still the president. Anyone interested in faith or religions, should start by seeking truth.
Being a person of faith does not necessarily mean that you give up individuality or the responsibility to seek the truth analytically. On the contrary, it often entails seeking the truth. A faithful person, however, will seek the truth in humility, without assuming the conclusion before he begins investigation.
I am convinced that by seeking the truth you will find God–if there is a god.
I agree with you that if there is a god we will find him in truth. However there hasn’t been an inkling of scientific notion in that direction and so we carry on with what we have witnessed and know to be true or most logical and science that is statistically most accurate and if on that road we come across god squatting in the bush there still would not be a single believer in god and do you know why? Because to believe something is to accept it as truth without evidence, empiricle or otherwise. If god decides to show himself then nobody would have to believe in him becuase there would be EVIDENCE, a much sought after thing in science
This brings up something I hate the most, the misuse of the word beliefe
That’s a good question. Why an immortal, all-powerful, perfect creature would create humans?
(I’m tempted to say for the lulz.)
If I were imortal, all-powerful, and perfect I’d create humans… their the squishy ill-tempered animate version of chia-pets
I’m Christian and I find this hilarious =)
boomSLANG – John C confirmed he thinks Adam and Eve actually physically existed on this planet. You will notice everything he says has a great emphasis on feeling – if you feel Jesus then you will know etc. It is really all about feeling with him.
I like this cartoon because it reminds me of myself. Personally I would add a balloon that said: “Why would an omnipotent being get angry?”
“John C confirmed he thinks Adam and Eve actually physically existed on this planet.”
So, he confirmed his own thoughts to himself. Outstanding; good for him.
You might be interested in this film called “The Evangelist.” It’s about an extremist. Some details here: theevangelistmovie.wordpress.com
“Why did “God” create man? At a minimum, this “God” knew that most of humanity would end up in “hell”, but yet, created these hellbound human beings anyway. The more moral, compassionate thing to do would have been to simply not bring into existence those whom this “God” knew, a priori, would burn.” “I’m saying the foundation of christianity is persecution.”
“until/unless you can offer some kind of objective confirmation for your Christianese ramblings, you convince none but the already-convinced.”
Hi. I don’t belong here. I’m a sixteen year old Catholic kid who should be doing his Driver’s Ed work. Instead, I’m here, reading this discussion, because I marked “Religion” as an interest on StumbleUpon.
I’m glad that I did.
The last object I quoted wants the establishment of objective confirmation for Christianity. Well, I can give you a scientific establishment for the existence of an outside supernatural force, so let’s begin with that.
Current scientific theory has the creation of the universe as caused by the explosion of a singularity. According to the theory, the universe has then expanded and MOVED -rapidly- away from the epicenter of the explosion.
Newton’s Third Law of Motion: An object at rest remains at rest unless acted upon by an outside force.
Now, as far as I know, singularities just don’t explode every damn day, so that should be an indicator. Logically, some THING -outside of our own universe- set the universe in motion.
Now, since that THING is outside of our own universe, what the HELL makes you think that we can understand it? If the universe is so large as to consider it infinite, and the thing that created it is outside of that inifity, then it would have to be even larger. Hell, I’ll call it “double-infity”- for the lulz. ;)
We, with our admittadly limited brains (don’t deny it, we’ve all seen the news) cannot fully comprehend UNlimited. We have words and numbers and symbols that we use to attempt to describe infinity, unlimited, et cetera, but I don’t think that they come close.
And that is my objective, not-filtered-by-faith view of the existence of a THING outside the universe.
Lucius – we are all fish in a fish bowel trying to make conjectures about what is outside the fish bowel. You make yours and I’ll make mine. A book will make its and and other book will make something quite the opposite. Where does it get us? You seem quite logical – so I will ask you the same question I ask all logical, thinking humans… “why would God get angry?”
VidLord,
I honestly cannot answer your question without relying upon my beliefs as a Catholic. If I use my faith in my reasoning, will that count as “evangelizing” and get me banned?
Lucius, you are free to speak your opinion here. Please do tell how or why you believe God can have human emotion. Thanks.
Well, as a Catholic, we believe that God made us in His image. Modeled as we are on God, would not that make OUR emotions “God-like”? Shakespeare said it best in Hamlet: “What a piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how
infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and
admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like
a god!
I love Shakespeare and it sounds beautiful but why would an omnipotent being:
(that can do anything, create or destroy anything, and is all knowing)
get ANGRY over something? Anger is just one emotion God “feels”…there are others such as jealousy, sadness, happiness etc.
Lucius, your thoughts on this are greatly appreciated. Thanks for sharing here.
VidLord: Thank YOU. I suffer from a lack of intelligent conversation.
We also believe that God created us out of love. That God realized that He was so awesome, that he wanted something else to share it with. Thus, humans were made in His image. Then sin (“sin” here meaning the seven Deadly Sins, for the sake of discussion) was introduced, and as Man has a propensity to turn to sin and away from God, God got angry. Here was HIS creation, being turned away FROM HIM. Is that understandable?
Thanks to you Lucius for continuing the conversation. I guess I would say that love is a human emotion. Why would you limit your God to something that can be reproduced in a tiny clump of neurons? “Love” is just a happy feeling that you feel. Make sense?
Now why would God want something? You said He “wanted something else to share it with” First off, how would you KNOW what GOD “wanted”???
Lets take it further….why would God “want” for anything? If God wanted anything it could create it in unlimited quantities no?
Lucius: “I honestly cannot answer your question without relying upon my beliefs as a Catholic. If I use my faith in my reasoning, will that count as ‘evangelizing’ and get me banned?”
‘Don’t know if it’ll get you banned, but it will make you somewhat of a hypocrite, since you’ve gone on record to say….
“Logically, some THING -outside of our own universe- set the universe in motion.
Now, since that THING is outside of our own universe, what the HELL makes you think that we can understand it?”
You haven’t proven that the “THING” is a “God”, let alone biblegod. And more importantly, we have your admission that said “THING” is beyond our understanding. Thus, you can’t use your “beliefs as a Catholic” to answer questions about something that presumably cannot be understood.
I know that I’ve contradicted myself. If you’re right about God, however, then I’m doing exactly what I’m supposed to do. ;)
That statement was in answer to a previous request for objectivity. I used objectivity. Later on, I asked if I could use Catholic beliefs as a foundation, and I was granted that. I currently have no way to link the THING to “Bible” God. However, if you can prove that the THING is the Flying Spaghetti Monster, then I’ll gladly become a Pastafarian.
In the Catholic faith, there are two things that answer you. One is the belief that, through Jesus Christ, we have come to gain a final knowledge of God. The other is the existance of Mysteries, though those laregly pertain to praying the Rosary. We DO understand the nature of our God. I am not, at this moment, connecting our God with the THING simply because I logically cannot. I only do because I choose to believe so. Does that answer your question?
So… arbitrarily?
You have framed your beliefs in your faith as a Catholic because you cannot or choose not to examine what is outside that framework. You cannot really call an arbitrary choice to believe in the supernatural first cause — you’ve been taught and choose to believe what you’ve been taught, although you are open to “proof” that a different version of god caused the big bang, you don’t seem to be open that there is no god at all. Your whole framework and what you’re willing to be convinced of closely resembles what you’ve been taught of the supernatural in the Catholic way, and is very far from what most people would label “reasoning” or “logical.” I.e., you state that you want to use your faith IN your reasoning. There is no reconciliation, nor objectivity if you do that. It’s not exactly evangelizing to discuss what you wish to discuss with this as your foundation, so we know where you’re coming from, but it does sound silly to me to try to argue that you have faith in god AND you are attempting to use that as a foundation for REASON.
I don’t exactly get what praying to an inanimate string of beads is supposed to accomplish, either. Superstitions you probably call heathen or satanic are a lot like that.
“I am not, at this moment, connecting our God with the THING simply because I logically cannot. I only do because I choose to believe so. Does that answer your question?”
Why do you choose to believe in what you say an illogical faith?
Lucius,
I only know a (shamefully) tiny bit about physics, but I think most physicists say the Big Bang was the origin of Newtonian laws. Talking about the pre-Big Bang Universe in terms of Newtonian laws just doesn’t fly. I hope that answers your question at least a little.
Ah, I see what you mean, Elliot. Well, I have two other ways to explain the existance of a THING, but I forgot them. :c
“the existence of a THING”
I think this is where we falter with our little brains. We assume the “existence” of the THING … (existence means it fits into our laws) We are just little fish in the fish bowel and here we are assuming things based on our little tiny fish bowel laws about that which is outside the fish bowel! Funny ~ if we only knew how incredibly small and insignificant we actually are and how little our fish bowel really is…..
“…fish bowel…”
What a fantastic malapropism.
A little earlier when I was talking about all the people that the christian church has tortured and murdered in the name of Jesus, I was talking primarily about the Catholic Church. Now I realize you are 16, and have been given some bad information so I don’t blame you for thinking you are doing something good by defending the most evil institution in human history. But I have to ask you something Lucius. Are you at all aware of the actual history of the catholic church or the many changes which have occurred to catholic theology? Do you know that the current pope directly protected pedophile priests including one who raped 200 children at a school for the deaf? Have you ever heard of something called the Inquisition? What about the Crusades? In all your church based education have you ever heard of Cathars? Did they mention Summis desiderantes affectibus to you in catechism?
I’m not trying to pick on you Lucius. But it is clear that you have been given some really bad information. Your church is a little smarter than the fundies, so they know enough to change their theology when it becomes an embarrassment. But the idea that science can be used to prove the catholic idea of god begs the question. If your god is consistent with science, why did the pope get so pissed at Galileo?
I would let a deist get away with playing the “what started the big bang” card. But there is a really big missing step between “I suspect there must be something bigger than myself” to “it must be Jesus”. You are welcome here and encouraged to add your voice to the conversation. But be warned, many of the posters here are very familiar with the history of the catholic church, and I can assure you it has nothing in common with the history that the church teaches to catholics.
Sorry, I just saw that you don’t like links posted here. Anyway, I just thought some people here might be interested in this film. Freethinkers.org rated it one of two movies for atheists to look out for. It’s called “The evangelist”
Here is the best part of the whole fairy tale:
PART 1 Before Jesus, God handed out laws to keep people in their place…they tried to follow them but God would NOT forgive the wrong doers(everybody) and take them to heaven.
PART 2 God sends his son to spread the “good” news….people tried to follow the “good” news, still they failed and god would NOT forgive them and take them to heaven.
PART 3 Man kills his son(most gruesomely) and then god says: “NOW I can forgive them and take them to heaven”.
Does anybody recognize something rather screwy in this? What kind of parent is he to mankind? He created us just for this cosmic joke? I have always said that if people loved their children the way god is portrayed as “loving” humanity in the bible(mainly the OLD testament), their kids would be chained up in the basement, starving and laying in their own feces!
chained up? No they would be alive and on fire:
He burned everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire and brimstone, burned Aaron’s sons for offering him “strange fire”, burned the Israelites for complaining, burned 250 men for burning incense, and burned 102 more for asking Elijah to come down from his hill. Burning people alive is just God’s way of having fun.
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html
Without getting too dimensional on you Lucius, before the “Big Bang” …no time no “nothing”. But something can come from “nothing. Time does not come into existance until space is created. Read sometime by Brian Greene for the layman. These mind twisters are why science, especially quantum physics, does not play by the rules of common sense.
My cousin recommended this blog and she was totally right keep up the fantastic work!
Well, now, I was very pleasantly surprised to find that most of the comments I have read were actually courteous and reasonably well though out. I have had the misfortune of following threads that degenerate into mud-slinging contests between Theists and Atheists, that, frankly, became rather tedious and boring.
That being said, I would classify myself as an Atheist-Buddhist. Just so you know. I also believe that God, Allah, Jehovah, Vishnu, Zeus and all the others, all were created in man’s image, or perhaps a really trumped up aspect of the human psyche. It just fits.
I mean, look at it this way. GOD (bibleGOD), is essentially a teenager with anger issues and an inferiority complex. As has been pointed out, the bible is a mass of contradictions, and so is the character of God. He will send in his armies to punish the masses for their brutal acts, then turn around and condone, and in many cases outright encourage the same acts of brutality. And love your neighbor as yourself? obviously the slaves back then weren’t human, and the women were only a little above them, used as currency approved by God, as so much cattle to be traded for land.
Now I understand that times have changed, and the state of things are not the same as the bad old days, but I have to ask. If the beliefs of a religion as far flung as Christianity can change to gain acceptance in a new time, several times and after much bloodshed, just how strong is the backbone of this faith? It seems to me, that one good solid puff and the whole thing could come crashing down. the problem is, the puff needed is held at bay by the wall of…un-proof held up by the churches like a ring of garlic against a vampire( which is itself a device not found in the original Nosferatu story, added, I believe, when Bela Lugosi played his role as Count Dracula, again a character of mythical proportions, taken from a historical personage, Vlad the Impaler, who was NOT a vampire. Much like Jesus, he existed, he was born, he died, but he was not the son of God. But I digress) .
This un-proof is our inability to disprove the existence of God. I have seen this on many threads, the argument that the existence of God cannot be disproved. And they’re right, it is not possible to disprove a negative, the same way it is impossible to disprove the existence of my cousin’s imaginary friend, because I cannot see it, I cannot measure it. It exists solely in my cousins head, which is it’s own universe with it’s own laws. And I have now lost my admittedly meandering train of thought and shall end it here.
If I wandered too much, I apologize. If I have offended anyone, take that offense, cool it down, reason out why it offended you, and if it wasn’t just a knee-jerk reaction to my words, then by all means, let’s continue the words of the back and forth. (Yes I know it doesn’t make sense, that’s just the way I am sometimes.)
Love and Peace.
There is no need to try to prove the existence of god when there are so many gods and their varieties thereof proving their non existence.
Exactly! Didn’t God say somewhere, “Thou Shalt not worship any god but ME”? that’s most likely a paraphrase, but it still basically says “Hey man, don’t look at anyone else but me. I know there are others out there, maybe they look a little nicer than me, maybe they’ll even treat you with respect, but if you look at them EVER, I’m gonna mess you up good.”
Wow.
That sounded like a pimp. I’m almost ashamed. Almost.
Well, I’m probably going to get flamed or trolled for this, but here goes.
All in my opinion, God made people for companionship. It’s as simple as that. He wanted someone to talk to, someone with their own will. Angels are great and perfect, but they are bound to serve God’s will. Animals can do whatever they want, but they could never grasp difficult concepts like humans can. We, humans, are in the middle of divinity and mortality, heaven and earth, with our eternal soul and our corporeal body. And we were made for fellowship.
Having our own will means that our choices have consequences. For the sake of space, I’m going to narrow the choices down to two simple ones: listen to God or don’t. God offers eternal life and fellowship with Him. We do, however, have the choice to tell God that we think we can do perfectly fine on our own. That was the choice exhibited by Adam and Eve, though coaxed by Satan: God, I know you said not to touch this tree, but I know better than you and I accept the consequences of my actions. The Bible never says that Adam and Eve were surprised when they were kicked out of Eden; they knew full well the ramifications and acted anyway.
This free will is the gift of God through His perfect love. If we choose to accept Him and fellowship with Him, He will gladly do so. But if we choose to deny Him and force Him out of our lives, He will let us do that, too. It’s our choice and our consequence. God made people to fellowship with Him, and some of humanity would rather go to Hell than do that.
Me, I’d have stuck with a Labrador or maybe a flat-coated retriever. Oh wait! Humans made both of those breeds, not God.
If you don’t want to be god’s friend, god says you get to be tortured the rest of eternity. I think he’s more than a little insecure. I don’t think he should trust his friends either.
I’ve never really understood the story of Adam and Eve, if his first creation disappointed him so, why he punished humanity instead of killing them and starting over. Oh, because it’s just a story. Your “opinion” is based on a story.
“God made people for companionship. It’s as simple as that. He wanted someone to talk to, someone with their own will.”
Kind of a one-sided companionship there. Funny he hasn’t talked to anyone, EVER. A bunch of goatherders and shepards about 3,000 years ago claim god spoke to them, but that’s all the “evidence” we have.
Some companionship. Sounds like the guy who beat the cr*p out of his wife because he loves her or the white supremacist who tell you how much better black people had it as slaves. We all met people who, for whatever reason, decided that they don’t want to be our friends. However I never felt I had the right to send my minions to knock on the doors of such people and tell them that they really should be my friends because:
A: I’m really cool. and B: if they don’t I’ll have them tortured.
Toolen: “God made people for companionship. It’s as simple as that. He wanted someone to talk”
Why would an omnipotent being “want” anything? Dwell on this…..
Why do atheists make fun of people who believe in God ?
Answer : It is really then only why then can make themselves feel like they are superior to others who do not believe the same as they do. When you degrade people my making fun of them all you do is show your own flaws and insecurities, if you are so sure of the idea that there is not God then you should never have to make fun of people who do believe in God.
Mockery serves to help dislodge the unearned reverence that religion possesses in the wider culture. It’s not generally my thing, but it has utility, certainly beyond your armchair psychology analysis. And given that, the cartoon up top follows directly from what is taught by (many) Christians; they simply wouldn’t put it *exactly that way*. If it is ridiculous, that is certainly not the Atheist’s fault.
Because it is somewhat humorous to see the hoops you will make and consequently jump through to reconcile your belief in god with the natural world. We are not trying to be superior to something that disagrees with us, we are doing whatever we can to knock some “god-given” sense into you. You’re denying what is real to cling to a supernatural belief in nothing. You are making up stories to believe such voluntary stupidity is worthwhile, to spare you from realizing you’ve wasted your life believing in lies and crap.
Ha-ha. It’s so funny! Isn’t it great how easy it is to laugh at people for their beliefs even when it’s not even close to what they believe?