by VorJack
Duane over at Abnormal Interests says “You Knew This Was Coming.”
Well, sadly enough, no I didn’t. I yield to Duane’s superior understanding of the apocalyptic nutjobs in America. Via Newsweek:
A growing conversation among Christian fundamentalists asks the question that may have been inevitable: is the oil spill in the gulf a sign of the coming apocalypse?
[...]
Now blogs on the Christian fringe are abuzz with possibility that the oil spill is the realization of Revelation 8:8–11. “The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea became blood, a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed … A third of the waters became wormwood, and many died from the water, because it was made bitter.” According to Revelation, in other words, something terrible happens to the world’s water, a punishment to those of insufficient faith. The foul water, according to the New Oxford Annotated Bible, mirrors one of the plagues God called upon Egypt on behalf of his people Israel.
Of course, Duane is right and I should have seen this coming. Anything and everything is grist for the millennial mill. You can find such time-lines as A Brief History of the Apocalypse, which list the various predictions for the end of the world. Most of those predictions would have been accompanied by signs and omens that the believer would have seized on for confirmation.
Modern apocalyptics – of which there are startlingly many given the failure rate of such predictions – are ready to seize on anything out of the ordinary to confirm their belief that the end times are upon us.
They do this all the time. I remember reading stories of astronomers discovering an asteroid which has a minimum chance of hitting earth and seeing comments that it was the asteroid send by god to punish man or something of the like. It keeps getting ridiculous. It is as if they are so desperate for the world to end they interpret every disaster as an sign of the apocalypse.
I know what you mean about people claiming the end times when they weren’t really here. It’s satan’s way of crying wolf and discrediting the real end-times.. But, if you would SEREOUSLY study the end-times you would know we are in them. The end days have not arrived yet, but we truly are in the end times. The end times do not refer to events that could have happened in any other time than the one we’re living in now. There are specific technological advancements that are prooof. The RFID chip, for example. The book of Revelation says that everyone will be required to receive a mark IN their right hand, or their forhead and will not be able to buy, sell, or trade without it. Well, the Governemtn already wants to put these chips in us, and they are going ….. you guessed it, in the right hand or, or in the forehead. Without them, we won’t be able to buy, sell, or trade. Mastercard is pushing to get rid of cash and implement the chips as soon as possible. This is just one of NUMEREOUS very specific events happening, that points to the end times. God also tells us that people would not believe it’s the end times, eventhough they can determine the weather, by the signs. People won’t want to believe it’s the time to be judged by god. Their choice. Can’f force them.
Please stop reading “chicken little”, it is getting utterly bothersome and childish! Grow up and join humanity!
I think maybe you are in your end times, but the rest of us aren’t.
We’re not death worshipers, we have eternal life coming to us. Is insulting others the best you can do? That’s okay. “count it all joys when you walk through the fire, when you suffer for righteousness sake.”
Your attitude toward God and those of us who love him, was also foretold in the bible. God said we would be hated. by the way, over 90 percent of the bible can be proven archaeologically. People that supposedly had never existed, have been proven to have existed, and did the things that the bible says they’ve done, at the time the bible says they were done. The Egyptian chariots were found right where they should have been according to the events the Bible tells us happened when the children of Israel escaped them, and the sea was parted by God so they could pass through, but was brought back down on the Egyptians as they tried to cross. The bible accurately foretold the rise and fall of every superpower in history, anywhere from 1000 – 3000 years before it happened, and it’s foretold the one world order we’re about the live through. It’s also foretold HOW these nations would rise and fall, and in what succession it would happen. Also, the scientist of today are just now figuring out things that God TRIED to tell us almost 3000 years ago, in the Bible. Also, Darwin himself said that he knew his theory of evolution” had too many holes in it to be true, but that a bag with holes in it is better than nothing to take your fruit to market in. ” In other words he’s a liar, and only wanted to make everyone think that he proved evolution.
Your language shows no lack of unrighteousness! Your view on scripture is so totally faulty. I have read in the NT that you are the child of the devil. Try again.
Do you know why they foretold that nobody would believe you when you talk about this god of yours? Hey, Mr. Obvious, do you know?
– Yeah, it’s obvious!
Not so much a prophecy that there are unbelievers as an eventuality of telling people there’s a man in the sky who counts the hairs on Jane’s head and moves her around like a puppet and puts the paranoia deep into her skull. He made the whole universe, but he really cares about Jane. When you don’t listen to Jane, he puts you in an eternal torture chamber! When he says the time is up, he hoists Jane up into a glorious heaven near him while the rest of us regret not listening to Jane. We laugh now, but we didn’t see the warnings of rapture and repent. The earth was just turning, and Jane tried to save us. What a hero, Jane is! If only god existed, he might have said something we could confirm.
What you say? Oh, 90% of the bible is archaeologically confirmed TRUE? Show us proof of the miracles, Jane! Where is god now? Why won’t he do any miracles, why the cryptic “signs” only Jane can see and interpret? If god were real, I think he could do more than … ordinary earthly events that make Jane scared.
You’re not scared? Way to rationalize, I knew I could count on you, Jane. Bad news GOOD says Jane. Don’t wait too long, says Jane. It’s really coming, this time for sure. God is real because I said so, says Jane. God is real because I can quote the bible.
Wow, thank you Mr. Obvious!
You really think God doesn’t do miracles. How about the miracle of prophecy. God told us through the Bible that he’s using prophecy so people will KNOW he is God.
Behold, the former things have come to pass, and new things I declare; before they spring forth I tell you of them.
-Isaiah 42:9
Now I tell you before it comes, tath when it does come to pass, you may believe that I am He.
-John 13:19
the bible foretells many signs that would culminatein the last days. Jesus indicated these signs would arise together as His return drew near (Matthew 24:33-34) Though many of these prophecies won’t climax until the tribulation perios, our generation is the first to see every trend in place. As the final seconds of this age tick away, these events will come into even clearer focus. Keep in mind as you read through this list that these prophecies were penned 1900 to 3500 years ago! (The Bible was penned over thousands of years, not in one sitting).
Here are just a few of these. There are at the least 101, that I KNOW of, but I don’t have time to list them all for you now. I will list them a little at a time. Even if you don’t want to see them, God know s someone does. Like he said “My word does not come back void.”
1. False bible teachers would bring in heresies, have many followers, and cause others to reject God’s Word (2 Peter 2:1-2). It is very common today to find people who reject the bible out of hand because they have heard it misrepresented by a false teacher.
2. These false prophets would be monely hungry, smooth talkers (2 Peter 2:3). A growing number of TV evangelists epitomize this. They twis the Scriptures, using misleading words, to make merchandise of the unwary.
3. The Christian gospel would be preached as a witness to all nations (Matthew 24:14; Mark 13:10; Revelation 14:6. Today, portions or all of the Bible have been translated into over 2400 languages and dialects covering over 90% of the world’s population.
4. Global communications forseen (Revelations 11:9-10; 17:8 ) The Bible prophecies that the ENTIRE WORLD will “see” certain events unfold. The invention of the television and the deployment of global satellite networks during the 20th century allow news to travel the world at the speed of light for the first time ever. Remember that in the apostle Johbn’s day, news traveledat the speed of horseback.
5. Mankind would be capable of destroying all life. (Matthew 24:21-22.) Consider that when Jesus make this prophecy the armaments of His day were swords and spears. But today, with nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, it is possible to wipe out all flesh on planet earth.
6. The use of nuclear weapons anticipated (Zechariah 14:12). The neutron bomb melts (dissolves its victims -just as god warned 2500 years ago- “Their flash shall dissolve while they stand on their fee, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, and their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.” This was unimaginable in Zechariah’s day.
7. There would be a global cry for peace (1 Thessalonians 5:3) Never has there been such a concerted, global effort to bring about peace at any cost as there is today.
8. The Antichrist would use (false) peace to destroy many (Daniel 8:23-25). With all the problems facing mankind, multitudes are looking for a “saviour” to usher in peace and prosperity WITHOUT MORAL ACCOUNTABILITY. The Antichrist will promise the world and Israel such a peace if they follow him-but his intentions will be evil.
9. In the last days Israel would have a peace treaty in place that the Antichrist will confirm and eventually break (Daniel 9:27) Currently the world’s governments are striving for an Israeli peace treaty.
10. Damascus would be destroyed (Isaiah 17:1, 14; Jeremiah 49:23-27; Amos 1:3-5; Zechariah 9: 1-8). Damascus, Syria is increasingly in the news and is extremely ani-Semitic. Many terrorist organizations have their bases in Damascus. God declares that they will become a ruinous heap because they have violently taken what was not theirs. In 2007, Israel vowed to wipe Syria of the map if syria attacted by chemical weapons.
11. Chaotic weather would be prevalent (Luke 21:25-260> Jesus foresaw “The seas and the waves roaring’ in the last days. He laso likened these signs to birth pangs. (Matthew 24:8). The Greek word “odin”, often translated as sorrows in Matthew 24:8 literally means birht pangs. Furthermore, the apostle Paul reminded us that the creation itslef will be delivered from the curse at the end of the age. (Romans 8:21). And that the “the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs’ (Romans 8:22). As delivery draws near, birth pangs always increase in both intensity and frequency. Therefor, the creation itself would travail as the time of delivery draws near. Of course chaotic weather is not new, but there are indications that we are witnessing an increase in strange weather.
12. There would be a move toward a global government. (daniel 2:40-44); 7:23 Revelation 13:7-8) The former roman empire — which encompassed presnt-day Europe– would revive and eventually domi9nate the world. The European Union has steadily moved forward in its attempt to unite Europe politically and economically. It has succeeded in creating a european parliaments, a court, and a common currency. And globalization is not unique to Europe, it is happening everywhgere.
13. Literal Babylon (formerly called Babel- Genesis 10:10) would reemerge in the land of Shinar–known today as Iraq (Zechariah 5:11; Isaiah 13). Saddam Hussein spent over 20 years rebuilding the city of babylon. Today, with Saddam’s regime overthrown, the international community is discussing how to rebuild Iraq
14. The fact that god once flooded the earth (the Noahic Flood ) would be denied (2 Peter 3:5-6) There is a mass of fossil evidence to prove this fact, yet is is flatly ignored by most of the scientific world because it was judgement from God on man’s wickedness.
15. Increased interest in Vegetarianism anticipated (1 Timothy 4:3-4). The New Age Movement has swept the globe during the past 40 years popularizing this.
16. Many wars would erupt (Mark 13:7-80. Accrding to Project Ploughshares, there are dozens of major armed conflicts in the world today.
17. Ethnic conflicts would be prevalent (Matthew 24:7; Luke 21:10). Jesus used the Greek word ethnos to describe the last days’ battles. Today, as never in history, we have ethnic group rising against ethnic group.
18. The earth would be filled with violence (Luke 17:26; Genesis 6:11 -13). In the United States along, violent crime has increased nearly 500 % since 1960. fifty years ago abortion ( the vilent murder of an unborn child) was illegal in most countires. Today abortion is leagl in most countries and 46 million children are aborted each year.
19. Jesus foretold that there would be fearful sights (Luke 21:1). The Greek word translated “fearful” is phobetron, which can also be translated terror. According to the U.S. State Department, between 1981 and 2006, there were more than 38,000 international terrorist attacts.
20. Multitudes would travelt o and fro (Daniel 12:4) . Prior to the Industrial Revolution, few individuals traveled beyond their own communities. Until recently, horse, foot, and boat were the only modes of transportation. Yet today we travel by car, bus, plane, train, subway, ect. Millions and millions are tunning to and fro just as Daniel prophesied 2,500 years ago.
21. Knowledge would increase (daniel 12:4). today we are witnessing an explostion of available knowledge. With the advent of the Interenet, it is estimated that our cumulative knowledge is doubling every five years. This exponential increase is beyond waht anyone could’ve imagined.
22. Deadly diseases (with the bible calls “pesitlences”) would be common (Matthew 24:7, Revelation 6:8). Emerging diseases such as AIDS, ebola, Hanta Virus, Dengue, West Nile, SARS, bird flu, ect., underscore this fact. Ironically, just a few decades ago, some scientists were forecasting that advances in medicine might soon eradicate deadly diseases.
23. The final generation would be open to receiving a mark in their right hand, or in their forehead (Revelation 13:16). Consider haw the up and coming generation is tattooed, perced and marked with all kinds of insignia. And today, for the first time in history, global tracking and marking technology is available.
24. A global economic system would exist (Revelation 13:16- 18). This was unthinkable in the apsotle Johbn’s day. Yet today, globalists in every level of government are seeking to unite the world. connecting the world monetraily is crucial to their goal. check out you tub’s videos on our presidents stating it’s time for a one world government, or a new world order, or a one world order.
25. A man would control all banking and commerce (Revelation 13:16-18). remember, this prphecy was penned 2000 years before our computer-driven society. Yet, until recently, you couldn’t have imagined how a person could contol all commerce.
26. famines would be common (Luke 21:11; Revelation 6:5-8). According to the Unived Nations, and estimated 854 million people went hungry in 2006.
27. Great signs from heaven prophesided (Luke 21:11, 26). Unexplained sightings in the sky appear to be increasing, for instance in 1947 UFO testimonies have exploded –terrifying many. since then thousands of unidentified aerial sightings have been reported annually.
28. The sun would scorch the inhabitants of the earth (Revelation 16:8-9). In recent years, solar activity has intensified markedly. Though this prophecy is clealry a divine judgement on unrepentant mankind, a compromise in the Earth’s atmosphere due to nuclear war or other ecological disaster could also facilitate this judgement.
29. The nation of Istrael would be born in one day (Isaiah 66:8). On may 14, 1948 Israel became a nation.
30. The Jews would begint o regather in Israel (Isaiah 11:11-12; ezediel 37:21-22; 38:8, Luke 21-29-31). Over five million jews have returned to Israel in recent times! This is unprecedented in human history. Never has a people group been dispersed for hundres of years to every corner of the globe, then regathered back to their homeland. yet God said it and He has done it right before our very eyes!!
31. Returning Jews would come fromt he north, soulth, east, and west (Isaiah 43:5-6; Jeremiah 31:7-10). am azingly, nearly a million Jews have emigrated from Russia in the North. Over 100,0000 ethiopian Jews have emigrated from the south (Zephaniah 3:10). Since 1948, Jews have emigrated from Europe, Asia, the Americas, everywhere!!
32. during the diaspora (the dispersion of the Jews to the four corners of the globe), Israel would become a wasteland (Deuteronomy 29:23-28; Ezekiel 36:8-11; Ezekiel 36:33-36). during the past 1900 years Israel has became a nearly uninhabited, desolate wasteland.
33. Israel, once a desolate desert, would blossom in the last days and export produce to the world (Isaiah 27:6; 35:1-2; Ezekiel 36:34-36). Israel’s increased rainfall and world-renowned irrigation technology have caused the land to blossom. Incredibly, as foretold, they currently export over 800 million dollars worth of fresh produce each year, including over 200 million in flowers and ornamental plants.
34. Israel would prosper economically (Ezekiel 38:12-13_. amazingly, this recently regathered, often attacked, tiny nation exported over 42 billion dollars worth of goods in 2006. This was inconceivable a century ago! In contrast their neighbor Jordan exported less than 5 billion in 2006.
I have many, many more of these end-times prophecies to share with you, wich are all coming true, just like god tells us in the bible. And, just as God told us, it would all happen within ONE GENERATION. The generation born in 1948. Those people are all 62 years old now. The average life span is 75-80 years now. Jesus told us that SURELY THAT GENERATION WOULD NOT PASS AWAY BEFORE I RETURN. which means there will be plenty of the 1948er’s left. Which means it will be soon.
You ask why God doesn’t do any miracles now? He’s done plenty of miracles in my life, since I’ve been saved and living inside the will of God.
1. Through prayer, and denying myself the right to retaliate when my used-to-be-drunk-everyday husband would say hurtful things to me, God has made changes in my husband (the very ones I asked him to) that I would never have thought possible. But, he also made changes in me that I never thought I would be willing to make. He changed me from the inside out, just like he did my husband. We now love and serve one another. We honor God with our marraige, and he keeps making it better and better. Tim will never be perfect, and I don’t expect him to be. I know that we will hurt each other because we are both sinners, and our sin makes us selfish people. but, as time goes by, because we have the Holy Spirit living in us, we will be changed for the better and better (glory to glory it’s called in the Bible) We live in a fallen world that thinks it should make up its own mind what is right and what is wrong, and that’s why we have so many people who hurt others and don’t really care at all. I didn’t care before God changed me. I wanted what I wanted no matter what. He wanted what he wanted, no matter what. Since we’ve followed God’s plan for marriage, he’s definitely blessed it. If we would’ve continued following the world’s plan for marriage we would have been divorced years ago. “There’s a way which seems right to man, but the end is destruction thereof”
2. I had been praying for God to help us buy a house, (even though my husband was on disability at the time because of injuries from work) We live in an apartment building and our son needs a yard to play in. I’d been praying for about a month, when my husband comes home saying that his boss said “God’s been telling me for the last four weeks that I should buy you a house.”
We didn’t even know he was a Christian, because the subject didn’t come up. We just thought he was a really nice employer. Not only that, but we’re getting the house at 4.9% Which isn’t too bad.
Over the last 2000 years people have repeatedly claimed that these same prophecies represent their own time with just as much basis for their claims as you have (i.e none). So far they were all wrong and odds are that so are you.
I’m not discounting your opinions, or the fact that you believe that “the end is near”. However, Christianity was based on apocalyptic prophets like Jesus. John the Baptist, who many people believe taught Jesus, was also an apocalyptic preacher. Paul, the apostle who was credited with the spread of Christianity throughout the late 1st century was also an apocalyptic. I am not saying that I disagree with what you have said, all I am saying is that people have been looking for “signs” that the end is near since the beginning of the religion. I maybe contradicting myself though because I do believe that some of the things you have said seem to have some significance when it comes to signs of the end of the age.
“God has made changes in my husband (the very ones I asked him to) that I would never have thought possible.”
Whoops there goes free will. Do me a favor and next time pray that God Heals all Amputees instead of something so selfish as your relationship. The worlds plan would be to seek counseling and talking over your problems with your spouse. I guess when you have god willing to strip away a persons free will and change them for you, sitting silently and wishing things improve is a better response.
“I had been praying for God to help us buy a house, ”
OK then, the Next, Next time try praying for something a little less self-centered and a little more substantial like that Amputee thing I mentioned.
I’m wasting my time, the narcissistic ninny is probably wishing for a new car next.
Hey Jane. I read some of your list and the first few are clearly eventualities not prophesies. An eventuality is what may also be known as an easy guess. People won’t believe us! Preachers will ask for money! DUUUUHHHH.
The next few, the ones about nuclear wars and global communications made no sense from the passages you said for me to look up. Did you read this list somewhere while consulting a bible, or did you just believe what someone else wrote down? The nuclear war one in particular, you can find it if you squint really hard, it’s not a prophesy though. There is some effect of some kind of plague, but nobody says a bomb was dropped that had the capacity to disfigure people, nobody says they were launched or anything that gives any indication anyone saw anything about the future. The one that supposedly predicted television seemed extremely irrelevant to television or communications or anything of the sort. If someone sees that passage as a prediction for television, they are nutballs, gazoon, not all there. If I had said that 10 minutes before reading your posts, that would be another example of an eventuality.
A prophesy is I say this will happen because I claim to have visions and see it, then it happens and you think I have magic powers. What is not a prophesy? Scouring the bible for any glimmer of a sideways hint that ancients were talking about the future in vague language that I can interpret to fit making them true. A prophesy of the bible, if this is god’s book, would speak in discernible vision and language. It would say something a lot more noticeable regarding nuclear war if it meant it in some way. It would say something a lot more suspiciously obvious about global communications anywhere near that passage you sent me to look up myself, regardless of the era people were living in. If I prophesied an airplane in biblical times, I might call it an airborne flying donkey cart, but you could envision that I saw the damn thing in the past when such machines were not possible. On the oral history pre-written bible, such a story would not come off so vague as to be picked at with tweezers and an electron microscope by some end times freak just to say it’s all coming true like the bible said.
I didn’t have the patience to look up every single passage to check your sources, but I got an idea that you haven’t done your homework either. I think a lot are going to be eventualities and some others pretty hard to see what you have been convinced to see is there. A third option may be that some hit the mark pretty close, but I don’t really care. Someone may have said “I wish I could talk to so-and-so right away, but it will take 4 days to travel”, and you might think, aha, telephones! Humans not surprisingly make a lot of technological progress on making wishes like that happen. It’s not prophesy.
Prophesies should be glaringly obvious, not scraping the barrel. How do you know what they foresaw if they haven’t described anything close to it? Imagine someone wants the prophesies to be true and then compiles the best they could come up with for evidence from the bible — because that’s what has happened here. If there are 101 and I found mistakes in the first 4 or 5, you’re not doing so hot.
Jane, When you copy somebody’s else words (even a retarded fundie website) the decent thing is to mention that and not pretend it’s your original work.The google make it really easy to find the source.
Scared???? What do I have to be scared of???? I’m not afraid of the future. I welcome it with open arms. Many are afraid of a nuclear haulocaust. Not me. I know what will happen. god tells us that unless he returned to stop it all flesh would be destroyed. He is returning. The signs are everywhere. Pick up a KJV bible and a newspaper. You’ll see.
Can I have all your stuff when you’re gone? Im serious. We can sign a contract now, I’ll give you all the money I have you just tell me what day I can have your stuff.
“Pick up a KJV bible”
Well now that explains a lot. Tell me Jane, how did someone get saved before the precious KJV was written?
> “I’m not afraid of the future. I welcome it with open arms. Many are afraid of a nuclear haulocaust. Not me.”
No, you’re just afraid that a clandestine one-world government led by Satan is out to get you. And you look forward to the Apocalypse where billions of people are going to die according to your Bible.
Yep, being a fundie sure sounds comforting.
What a Moroon.
Her “real” life begins after she’s Dead.
Your Wall of Text is just one big block of Fail. It’s a monument to stupidity.
@Jane
You have really drunk the cool aid. Very little of what you say has any truth in it what so ever. You really need to understand that you’ve been fed a pack of lies to keep you afraid so your ass stays in the pew and your hand in the collection plate.
The bible names places and people that really existed in history. But get’s the deeds wrong and the order of the events. It only proves the people writing the bible knew some current events and some geography.
The only evidence of a million jews leaving Egypt was some shards of wood in the red sea that look like they might have been wagon wheels. This gets spun into Pharaohs army of chariots when it’s likely some merchants wagon that floated off in a flood. The whole exodus story is full wholes. The Jews crossed the sea to escape the Egyptians, wander the desert and eventually settle in Palestine. What the lunes don’t tell you was Palestine was an Egyptian province at the time. So who were they running from/to? The Egyptians or any other civilization in the area have no record of such a migration. There’s no archeological evidence of a million person march.
If Jesus fulfilled all the hebrew prophecies, why are Jews not all Christian?
The reason is that he didn’t. The prophecies in the bible were rewritten to match events and are different than those in the much older Torah. Most times the prophecies were written after the fact.
There are a lot of prominent atheists that used to believe what you do. Dan Barker for one. A former evangelical minister started studying biblical history and manuscripts so he could argue with atheists. He soon discovered most of what he grew up to believe was wrong. He now is an atheist and runs the Freedom From Religion Foundation. There’s bible scholar Robert Price, and many others with similar stories.
Oh you stupid, uneducated liar for Jebus….
Surprised we didn’t get dealt the “Darwin got saved on his deathbed and denounced TOE” card.
If only the rest of you biblical death worshipers haven’t been saying that for the last 2000 years it would lend your absurd proclamations just a tiny bit of weight. All you get right now is the laughter and sighs of exasperation at the antics of silly Death Cultists such as yourself.
Please provide a source for your claim that “the government” – whoever that is – wants to implant RFID chips into us.
And while you’re at it, please provide a source for your alleged Darwin quote.
That should be easy for you. I mean, surely you can back up your claims, right? Anything else would be … dishonest.
No answer. Huh. What a surprise.
No answer yet because my family is more important to me than other things and I’ve been spending time with them. I’ll post it. Not in a hurry to impress you. My name is already written in the book of life. That’s good enough for me.
Its OK we’re used to kooks stopping by and expounding on about how much evidence they have then claim “Real Life Stuff” is more important and vanish into the aether. Funny how that really important message and earth shattering news to save our souls just isn’t that important once evidence is requested.
You sure were in a hurry to post that tl;dr nonsense list, Jane.
That’s because copy/pasting crap from fundienutjob.com doesn’t take that long. However our buddy Jane is not a smart plagiarizer, I got suspicious when she claimed 101 sighs, which sounded a bit to specific for someone just writing a blog reply so I googled “101 signs of end time” and the top hit just happened to have Jane’s list word for word. So either Jane copied the list and in an example of xtian morality didn’t bother to mention the source or it’s a miracle and a proof that the list is divinely inspired like the mythological 70 independent translation of the buybull to greek that turned out exactly the same.
I googled on a phrase within her introductory paragraph (“Keep in mind as you read through this list that these prophecies were penned 1900 to 3500 years ago!”) and came up with 27 hits. One of which seems to be a book 2 guys wrote, which is the original source.
http://www.thebereancall.org/node/4966
I would have pegged it as nearly impossible to find the original source, given it reads a lot like an email forward of “101 true amazing facts about animals” that aren’t really true, or “Stuff George Carlin said” that George Carlin didn’t really say. I read on one site where someone posted this same list, the first comment afterward is “You really did your research, and I applaude you”.
I tried at first to match up some of the predictions with the biblical passages, and I think the trick here is that nobody opens their bible to the passage for a comparison, they just take it on face value. These Berean Call guys are pretty effed up about their end times. I read around their site a little. I didn’t find any strength to any of the so-called “prophesies,” just a lot of reaching, or in some cases, passages that didn’t have any relation to whatever they claimed was predicted. They know if they can list a few that are close, nobody’s going to check each one.
The apocalyptics are a bit slow on the uptake, when it comes to oil rig disasters. Here’s a highly abridged list of just the larger spills and fires. Of course, thousands of smaller incidents take place, everywhere on earth that oil is extracted. It wasn’t long ago that everyone who changed the oil in their car blithely threw it on the ground or down a storm drain.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001451.html
I am surprised it took them this long to see the oil spill that way… Oh confirmation bias, where have you been.
It could very well be. A large number of people who calaim to be christians are not. They are religious. There is a difference. God does not want us to perform “vain babblings, and meaningless repititions (religion). He wants a RELATIONSHIP with us. But, he’s not going to force us to have a relationship with him. He wants it to come from the heart. That’s why he didn’t make us into robots that automatically worship him.
You have a RELATIONSHIP with gawd in the exact same way my little brother had a relationship with his Woobie.
Lol – I said a similar thing yesterday to a fundie who door-stopped me:
Fundie: “It’s not faith, it’s a relationship with Jesus!”
Me: “Your ‘relationship’ is about as meaningful in the real world as mine used to be with my right hand as a teenager. Bet my hands achieved more by doing what they were doing than yours do by praying, too”.
He left after that.
This is interesting, since the spill is most directly impacting the economies of some of our most religious states. Apparently god wanted to start the end times by punishing the most faithful.
Maybe they were praying to the wrong god.
Oily Rapture.
“The fool has said in his heart there is no god”
In the 21st Century, the fool says there is a God.
LOL, good thing we’re not saying that in our heart, but instead with our minds and mouths.
This might sound weird, but I love reading your comments. They’re often hilarious. xD
We will have our apocalypse, but it will have nothing to do with god, because there is no god.
Cue the religiobots and their misquoting the Bible left, right, and center in 3…2…1…
What do yo think about the fact that Israel has become a nation again? And, tjust like God said, they are: Hated by almost every nation, a burdensome stone, have found oil on their land, exactly withere God told us in the bible it would be found, and are going to be rich, ALSO
What about the RFID chips that the government already wants to put in people, and that Mastercard is trying to use instead of cash? What about the passage that says that all the world will watch the two witnesses who were killed, for 3 days. When, before the end days witht he use of satellite dishes, and all the technological advancements has this ever been a possibility? There are so many things that people have no clue about in prophecy, and how they are coming very true, but want to bash prophecy as if there’s no way it will ever happen. Research it. You’ll see. Also, the HEAD OF NASA’S EVIRONMENTAL RESEARCH DEPARMENT says that humans use of aerosol sprays are NOT causing the problems scientists say they are. It’s all a smoke screen for the Governent to tax us more, and take more control over our lives. RESEARCH IT ON “In the Market with Janet Parshal” webiste.
“What do yo think about the fact that Israel has become a nation again? And, tjust like God said’
Leaving aside for the moment that the Bible ain’t God, where in the Bible does it say this?
Sorry. My brain goes 90 miles an hour with thoughts, and my typing is not all that great (as if you can’t tell.)
Sereously though, if yo would research what the bible says would be the signs of the end times, then keep up on news, (not just what’s on T.V.), you would see that there are over 50 end-time prophecies that have come to pass, in the order they were to come to pass, in the one generation they were foretold to come to pass, and that they will continue to do so. When there is a 7 year peace treaty drawn up with Israel (Obama is trying to force a peace treaty with them right now), know you have only 7 years left.
Have a great afternoon nomad.
Care to list this 50+ then?
Wait, I’m going to make some popcorn.
Perhaps with “cheddar jeeses” flavouring? My favourite after salt and vinegar.
I loves me some cheddar popcorn–especially if it comes from Garrett’s Popcorn in Chicago. That stuff singlehandedly changed my opinion about popcorn.
This ought to be good… No, wait: I meant BLANK, not good.
“Sorry. My brain goes 90 miles an hour with thoughts,”
So your excuse for being a credulous scatterbrained idiot, is being a scatterbrained idiot? Fantastic!
Sereously can I have all your stuff in 7 years?
Why seven years? Some fundies think the world will end on Dec 21, 2012.
God told me she has better stuff.
” When there is a 7 year peace treaty drawn up with Israel (Obama is trying to force a peace treaty with them right now), know you have only 7 years left. ”
Our news are all speaking about the soccer championship now, so I must have missed it. When did US began a war against Israel???
Also, I knew it! Obama is the antichrist!
I’m sorry, could you please be a bit more rambling and incoherent? If you can’t go off into at least twenty different directions I’m afraid it doesn’t count.
Why is it that you atheiists who are supposed to be sooooooo tolerant can think of no better reply than to downgrade someone. do you not have any kind of proof of anything you say about God not being real, or what? I mean this is a discussion site, isn’t it?
Who said atheists are supposed to be tolerant?
Tolerance: It doesn’t mean what you want it to mean.
“do you not have any kind of proof of anything you say about God not being real, or what?”
Logic Fail.
It’s not up to us to disprove the existence of a divine zombie who became his own son and sacrificed himself to himself to forgive its creation for the sins it caused by creating them in the first place.
Yep its a discussion site prove to us that your god is real. We can discuss your evidence once you present it. You know, once we get done laughing.
how do you explain life? what is the difference between a living and a dead body? I think the “life” that all of us have is proof that God is real. You can make of it what you want, maybe say that we evolved from microbial ooze millions of years ago, that’s fine. I believe that we were created and given life by God, so in my opinion, our existence is proof that there is a God.
You should look up the definition of the word proof.
For what? That is my proof. It is what I believe.
“What I wish was true” is not proof to anyone else. It’s not even proof to you, it’s just the point where you stopped asking questions and invented the answer you liked best.
Goes like this: I think jellybeans are proof of unicorns. I think coffee is proof of Nemterequeteba. I think swords are proof of the Power of Greyskull.
I like these answers, don’t try to tell me that’s not proof they are all true.
I never said “what I wish was true” anywhere. Try reading a little better.
I’m interpreting your words for you because you don’t seem to know the implications of your beliefs and how you got them. You are actively avoiding the comprehension that you actually did say “what I wish was true”. You think you said something very different and that’s another thing you wish was true, that what you said and what I said you said were different but they’re the same. I read just fine, and you rationalize like a pro!
Hahaha thank you for trying to interpret my beliefs for me. What is true for me and what is true for someone else may be two different things. You certainly do not believe in God, which you may hold to be true. I do believe in God, which I believe is true. Don’t think that everybody agrees with you and that you think you are right about God not being real, because there are 2 billion people on this earth that would beg to differ. It is very ignorant for you to tell me what I believe. And I got my set of beliefs from reading the Bible, going to church, and learning about my religion.
Seriously? Arguing that because 2 billion people have bought into the same delusion you’ve bought into makes “god” real? No. That’s called “argumentum ad populum.” And speaking of your religion, can you tell us why the earliest gospels don’t mention Jesus’ resurrection?
You seem to have confirmed your set of beliefs not from reading the bible, going to church, or learning about your religion, unless that is where someone turned you onto this “life” thing that really settles the matter for you.
Also, the existence of god is not something that can be just an opinion. You seem to be mistaken and ok with it being just another opinion or outlook. God of some sort either exists or does not exist, so someone’s opinion is wrong and need not be considered. It’s not like Siskel & Ebert debating Benji the Hunted; in a case like that you’re entitled to your opinion, but whether something exists is not a matter of opinion.
Since neither one of us has any proof of god’s existence, you have attributed something you think is “neato” and “magical” to a deity as sufficient evidence. That’s wishful thinking, my friend. Which is what I said you said, and you deny having said it.
Do you know what the gospels are????? Are you kidding me??? Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, all mention the crucifixion of Jesus!!! These four books in the New Testament are known as the Gospels. Maybe you should do some more “frakkin” research about the Bible before you come here and make yourself look stupid.
Whether you choose to believe is your own choice, I believe that God is the only God and he IS real. Bash on me all you want, I really don’t care. Bring on the persecution!!!
2 billion people can all be wrong about something. If 2 billion people believe Jesus Christ is real and God is real, does that mean 4.5 billion people are more right because there are more of them? Or more wrong because they don’t agree with your silly proof or the natterings of 2 billion people, or have their own silly gods that aren’t like yours, or some other thing?
How can you use a thing like a large number to suppose that proves anything to us, when you aren’t concerned or persuaded by the even larger number who does not belong to your puny group!
You idiot. The earliest gospel–Mark–didn’t originally have the resurrection in the narrative. The narrative ended “abruptly” at 16:8. The longer ending (16:9-20) is believed to have been a later addition. But let me guess—you never knew that, because you probably belong to a sect of Christianity that doesn’t bother with academic scholarship regarding the composition of the Bible. Why don’t you read Bruce Metzger’s “Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament” and then come back, m’kay?
You dummy. This is not “persecution.” You trundled your dumb ass onto an atheist blog and started warbling about your imaginary sky-friend. What did you think would happen? That the big, bad ol’ atheists would all say, “Look! Random internet person who has said stupid stuff we’ve all heard before has totes convinced us! We shall all now pursue this random internet person’s particular religious mythology!”
Oh my, we should read the bible to learn what is written in the bible so it has to be true? And then persecute you because you’re expecting it?
You are the religiobot Roger prophesied!
Just so you know, the 2 billion people I referred to are Christians in the world. Another 1.5+ billion are Islamic who believe in the same God that I do, the difference is they believe that Muhammad was the prophet, they do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God. So, out of the world’s religions, over half believe in one true God. You atheists represent less than 1 billion in the world. I know to you, numbers don’t mean a thing because they don’t back up a point you’re trying to make. Just so you know, over 50 percent of the world’s population belong to monotheistic religions. I’m just sayin…
Ahahaha Roger you are truly ignorant!!! I’m sorry I misread your post and thought you meant the crucifixion of Jesus, not the resurrection. Your implications are ridiculous!!! What do you want to know about the Bible. P.S. I studied Bart Erhman’s book about the New Testament, thank you very much!
Kodie, what are you talking about? Your post doesn’t make sense.
There is no point arguing with wilful ignorance. If someone is so invested in their fairytale that they refuse to look at the evidence in case it disturbs their comfortable fantasy, no amount of reason is going to shift them.
“how do you explain life?” – The Same way I explain Art.
“what is the difference between a living and a dead body?” – Dead ones don’t eat as much.
“I think the “life” that all of us have is proof that God is real.” – Fire is hot, Water is wet, therefore god exists? That evidence works to prove all gods not just whichever imaginary critter you dreamed up.
“I believe that we were created and given life by God, so in my opinion, our existence is proof that there is a God.” – It’s also “proof” for every other creation myth that man has dreamed up. Your opinion isn’t proof or evidence. You’re welcome to believe in Farie Tales just don’t expect people to treat your wishful thinking as evidence.
Okay, so the “life” in you, whatever makes you breathe, think, and feel emotions, is the same thing as art? I’m not talking about the physical world around us, I’m talking about the spark that is in each person, even you. And I don’t believe in other gods, I believe in ONE God, and to me it does prove he is real.
So please tell me where we came from, did we evolve from apes or something? I would love to know since you are so sure that God isn’t real.
Right, if it seems like magic, it must come from a magical place.
This is so bad it’s almost laughable. You’re talking about human consciousness? Human consciousness and sentience is a result of millions of years of evolution and natural selection–not the result of an imaginary sky friend’s vicissitudes. And if you want to know how human beings came about, here’s a tip: do some frakkin’ research (and no, neither the 700 Club nor a collection of Bronze Age myths count as research).
I have done research, show me where I evolved from a monkey over millions of years. Apparently everybody on here is quick to respond but no one wants to prove me wrong. Laughable is believing that whatever you find on wikipedia is a viable source. Go ahead and believe wikipedia, and google, and whatever other bogus site you can find.
Not magic, more like an act of God.
Starting off with the ridiculous argument that someone has to prove that *you* didn’t evolve from a pre-human species is, again, laughably absurd. *You* didn’t evolve; the human race as we know it (homo sapien) is but one branch in a long line of mammalian development. At any rate, I don’t think that the mountains of evidence that support the theory of evolution and natural selection would budge you one inch from your position of stupidity.
So then tell me where I evolved from. You say mammalian development got me to where I am today, so prove it! Everybody on this site wants PROOF that God exists, so I want PROOF that I evolved from an ape.
Read this and this. Feel free to go to libraries and bookstores and check the sources cited in both essays. Heck, try this book–it’s not too technical and can help you.
Go ahead. You’ll learn something.
Once again, wikipedia is not a reliable source, anybody can put anything they want on there. I’ll look into the book, maybe I will learn something. Meanwhile, check this out: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/genesis.html.
Idiot. I told you to check the sources at the end of each article–each of those entries is extensively sourced with reputable scientific data. And quoting the Book of Genesis isn’t the proof of your deity’s existence. Try again.
It’s proof enough for me idiot. And I have a hard time believing that someone says something happened 65 million years ago when civilizations have only been around for the past 25,000 years or so. Science is nothing but guesses and a bunch of “maybes” or “we think so’s”. You can argue the same thing about religion, but I do not believe anything somebody tells me about the world 65 million years ago. That is ridiculous!
Or you can go to the real talkorigins.org instead of a page made to look like it with the text of your magic book of fairy tales. But then you obviously cherish your ignorance so trying to reason with you is probably a waste of time anyway.
Whoa you got me and my book of fairy tales!! There is no reasoning with faith. It is either true or false. I believe my faith and religion to be true. Obviously you are not a believer. So what is there to reason about?
No spark, Just well understood chemical reactions turning food into energy that drives the mechanisms of our muscles. Our brains are information processing machines. Preprogrammed by millions of years of natural selection to seek attachments to organisms similar to ourselves. These attachments are the key to the survival of the species. We hunt in packs and group together to fight off predators. We have special attachments to our mates because our young are so very vulnerable for so long. The female can’t care for the young by herself so needs to keep a male around to provide for both her and the offspring until it is old enough to fend for itself.
As these brains become more complex there is extra capacity for abstract thought, communication, making of tools and shelter. The greater the intelligence the greater the chances of survival. So it becomes selected for over millions of generations.
Today we are creatures that have love and friendships, art and science because today like in the past these are important to our survival. Without them we would be extinct like those we replaced.
I like your post but I still think that there is something beyond chemical reactions and neurons firing in the brain and all that stuff. I just think that there is some sort of spark, something like electricity i guess, that gives us life. You may call it chemical reactions in the brain, I call it the Holy Spirit. That’s just my opinion. And if we have evolved like you say, then why are there still primates? Would they have not evolved like us or become extinct, after all we are very closely related biologically. This is the main problem I have with the theory of evolution.
It is, at this point, obvious that you aren’t trying to learn diddly-squat about evolution. Your “main problem” with evolution is ridiculously stupid.
First, homo sapien didn’t evolve from apes. Both apes and human beings evolved from a common ancestor. Second, evolution does not mean that a prior species is automatically “exterminated.” Evolution is, as simply as one can make such a concept, change over time. As they say, try again. I’m sure you’ll have one more “main problem” with evolution.
I don’t mind hearing your sides about your argument, but you aren’t going to change my mind.
Well at least he’s upfront about his purposeful ignorance.
“I just think that there is some sort of spark, something like electricity i guess, that gives us life”
Of course. If you believed what a 2000 years old book said about the world, why shouldn’t you believe what Mary Shelley’s wrote “only” 200 years ago?
JS, please tell us why your ONE god is real and all the other gods aren’t. You see, we don’t believe in all the other gods either. We just happen to believe in 1 less god than you do.
Well, JS, you just told everyone that you’re another liar for Jebus. Here’s what YOU said: “So then tell me where I evolved from. You say mammalian development got me to where I am today, so prove it! Everybody on this site wants PROOF that God exists, so I want PROOF that I evolved from an ape.”
Now, I pointed you to work that proves it…and then you later say, “I don’t mind hearing your sides about your argument, but you aren’t going to change my mind.”
Willful idiocy such as yours doesn’t deserve polite response, so you won’t get one from me. You’re an idiot, a clodpoll, a witless imbecile so inured to a set of gruesome fairytales and myths that you can’t reason your way out of a wet paper bag with both ends open.
I believe in one true God, I don’t believe in other gods. Simple as that. And I love the comparison of the Bible to Frankenstein, that was pretty good. And to Roger, the work you told me to look at, granted it was written by a scholar, doesn’t make sense to me. Again, I have a VERY hard time believing something that guy said about the world 65 MILLION years ago, that seems ridiculous to me. You can only make guesses about something happening that long ago. So keep going with your theory of evolution, I don’t buy it, but I’m not going to condemn you for it. You can keep calling me names over the internet all you want, while it may make you seem cool to your internet buddies, it’s quite childish and immature.
I have one question for all you non-believers, why are you so angry?
You have discarded information on what goes on 65 million years ago on the basis that your brain can’t grasp how anyone can know. You have invented that it’s all guessing if it’s that long ago. And yet information exists that could guide you to understand how we know what we know, what tools and instruments we use to know, what knowledge we had before that was improved and improved, you arbitrarily avoid knowing how we know.
Your god who is unknown is often excused to be so supernaturally outside the earthly conception of human brain capacity, yet you willingly believe he exists. There is no way to know. There is no history of exploration to the matter that gets anyone any closer to finding god than they ever were.
Science and knowledge just intimidate you. You settle on what you wishfully think, you warp it to make more sense and knowability than actual known things because you don’t want to change your mind. You want, another word for wish, for it to be true, and object to exposing yourself to what we’ve found out to the contrary on the basis that it is more impossible to be true than a god who has never been found, can’t be seen, can only be spoken of and credited with certain feelings.
No, we are not angry, it is hard to keep it together when trying to have a conversation with someone who wants to be so stupid, though. You have said “all you non-believers,” I think one person told you what you are. You ask a bunch of dopey questions like you are actually curious and then you admit you aren’t going to change your mind. In good faith of you, we tried to have legitimate discussion with you, but you pull every dirty and predictable Christian trick, every fallible argument, and pretty much wasted a lot of people’s time to look up articles to show you the answers to your questions, and then you make up reasons to not read them.
Do you want us to be happy with you that you are here being an idiot on purpose? You don’t have any rational defense for your position, so… we get it. You’re a Christian and you want to believe whatever you like and you’re not going to change your mind. Big deal, now the discussion is over and you can go away, with your imaginary persecution that people hate you for believing in god. You’ve acted very poorly here, and you’re done playing.
Once again, thank you for telling me what I want, wish, and believe. And why would I not suspect you to not believe in God? You have said anything and everything you can think of to discredit my religion. Someone who believes in God wouldn’t do that, so I’ll take it you don’t believe in God. You are obviously grounded in your beliefs, as am I. You are just as stubborn as I am. Although I do enjoy the debates, you make the least sense of everyone on here. I’d rather listen to Roger sit here and call me an idiot that read your ramblings that say the same things every time.
You asked “why are all you non-believers so angry” — what gives you the idea that we’re angry? You do not think it makes sense that we are impatient with your behavior and willful ignorance of proofs you are shown that you have asked for, and conclude that you are being persecuted for your beliefs instead.
You have not shown any proofs, so we are not stubborn in what knowledge we have as you like to pretend, another thing you pretend is true because it fits with your wish-beliefs. If you can provide evidence which contradicts it and not just what always boils down to wishful thinking — we will look at it. You haven’t done the same. You ask for proof and then you don’t even look at it. You are playing games, so of course people are a little nasty to you.
No one cares what you’d rather either.
“No one cares what you’d rather either.”
What?
And what do you want proof of? That God is real? That we didn’t evolve over millions of years? You wouldn’t hear it!!!
My proof lies in the Word of God. You don’t believe in God so his Word would be hard to come by for you. You say my religion is based on a fairy-tale, and that’s fine. I think that evolution is based on a fairy-tale as well.
“another thing you pretend is true because it fits with your wish-beliefs”
hahaha what is up with you and your whole “wish-beliefs” thinkg?
Have you ever read the Bible? I know there are a lot of inconsistencies in it, but there is also a lot of truth as well. Maybe you should take a peek at it, it may change your mind.
“You have said anything and everything you can think of to discredit my religion. Someone who believes in God wouldn’t do that, so I’ll take it you don’t believe in God.”
They would if they believed in a different god.
“I know there are a lot of inconsistencies in it, but there is also a lot of truth as well.” – How do you tell the inconsistencies from the truth?
Why do imbeciles like this “JS” assume that we’ve never read that foolishness called “The Bible”? Oh, yes, “JS”–we’ve read that collection of Bronze Age myths; and you’re right. It did change our minds–it helped some of us realize that the “god” presented in those texts was a megalomaniacal, egotistical, selfish, insane, homicidal, genocidal, self-aggrandizing, petty, vengeful, narcissistic hodge-podge of regional deities. Of course, it’s easier (read: comforting to weak minds) to believe that some imaginary sky daddy magically poofed the world into being rather than accept geological evidence of the Earth’s age being 4.6 billion years old and the biological evidence regarding human origins. Yeah, that makes perfect sense, because the fairy book said so.
And when presented with scholarly evidence, the imbecilic simpleton babbles that 65 million years is simply too hard to understand and then tries to equate the theory of evolution and natural selection–mind you, a theory that the idiot has already said he/she doesn’t understand and won’t bother trying to understand–with a “belief.”
Of course, he/she can’t articulate why his/her belief in *one* god is so much better than belief in multiple gods–can he/she prove the existence of the one? What about religions that posit the existence of many gods? Mind you, the idiot doesn’t know much about the history of his/her own religion (as evidenced by the lack of knowledge about the gospels and the fact that the earliest manuscripts of the first gospel Mark lacked any references to a resurrection).
Inconsistencies in the Bible can be picked apart from a number of methodologies. Some of the main ones used are the method of dissimilarity and the method of attestation. The method of dissimilarity is used to discriminate what is true and what is made up. For the early Jewish Christians, they believed that Jesus was the Messiah, the savior of the people. Now, why would someone who believes that this all powerful being could be put to death by mere mortals? This gives credit to the Passion Narratives in the Gospels because someone would not make up a story like this about an all powerful savior being killed by humans. This gives credit, in a historical fashion, to the description of the crucifixion of Jesus.
The next method, attestation, is used by historians who take different sources which “attest” to similar events. For example, look at the resurrection of Jesus again, although it is not in Mark, the narrative is present in Matthew, Luke, and John. Historians gather evidence from these Gospels and can draw a conclusion that Jesus was crucified, and possibly resurrected. However, a historian cannot “claim” that a miracle happened, like the resurrection, because that crosses the line of Christology, the study of Jesus, and into the realm of theology.
We can argue about the Bible all day, but I would rather stick to the New Testament. This is the part of the Bible that I like, and I know you will say something about the Creation being in Genesis, so go ahead and call me an idiot again. But I would love to discuss the New Testament with you.
Some of the main ones used are the method of dissimilarity
I’m sorry, but that’s not the principle of dissimilarity I’m used to. What you’re describing sounds more like the principle of embarassment.
Further, while it may lend credence to the bare fact that Jesus was crucified, it does not necessarily lend credence to the trappings of the passion narratives.
The next method, attestation, is used by historians who take different sources which “attest” to similar events.
The problem with the principle of multiple attestation is that the Matthew and Luke are believed to have been using Mark, and the author of John may have been aware of the same traditions. It’s hard to say that we’re actually receiving multiple attestations when they may all have been using Mark as a major source.
Yeah, it’s thought that Matthew and Luke used Mark. However, they also used an independent source not found in Mark, the Q Source. In terms of historical accuracy, John is thought to be the least accurate of them all, mostly because of the fact that it was the latest of the Gospels to be written and it has a lot of theology ingrained in it. In the argument of independent attestation, this works for the Gospels expect when one tries to explain the synoptic gospels because like you said, Matthew and Luke both used Mark. The Q Source aids in the argument for independent attestation because this source was not used in Mark, only in Matthew and Luke. Verbatim agreement is also present in the Gospels, which allows historians to make basic conclusions on the events told in the Gospels.
On the criterion of dissimilarity, as I stated above it is used to find validity in texts by looking at things that authors would not have made up. For example, the betraying of Jesus by Judas. If Christians believed Jesus was a great teacher whom everyone loved, then why would they make up an event where he was betrayed by one of his closest followers.
And on the subject of John, it seems highly unlikely that the author of John used Matthew or Luke in creating the Gospel. For instance, in John, Jesus is called the “Word of God”. This is only found in the Gospel of John. The Gospel of John is far different from the other Gospels, and I may be mistaken, but I think that in John the time in which Jesus was crucified is different from the Synoptics.
Along with the Gospels, there are a lot of other sources historians count as credible which include the Passion Narrative, the Birth Narrative, the Signs Source, the Discourse Source, and the Gospel of Thomas( Sayings Source which was never canonized).
“maybe say that we evolved from microbial ooze millions of years ago”
Obviously not all of us have evolved quite as far as others. Keep believing your fairytale.
Three days! Hm. I figured it would have been the same day, but I guess the religiobots were busy on Whirled Nut Daily getting their daily dose of fearmongering and “Obama iz teh AnitChrists!!1!”
i remember going to church as a good christian girl and hearing all about how earthquakes have increased in recent years, and hurricanes, and every other conceivable natural disaster… it’s a “sign of the end times”, of course. caused by god. but when you look at it from a secular view, apart from earthquakes, most of the climate-related natural disasters can be chalked up to (drum roll please) human intervention, global warming, carbon emissions, etc. i kind of like the idea that the oil spill is part of the apocalypse. guess what, it’s not caused by god… man brings the apocalypse on himself.
I know, right? It’s like selfulfilling prophecy.
Maybe the CEO of BP is religious and just feels like he’s doing god’s work by fulfilling prophecy…
I once worked for a Christian. We used to use these aerosol cans for the job. When I told him how nasty it was for the ozone and for me to breath in, he told me that it says in the bible that a third of the earth was going to burn so he was just helping it out along….of course I was christian at the time so I didn’t think twice of it…
Nice…
Don’t forget our communication abilities have increased. A few decades ago we would have never heard the news about Hurricanes, Earthquates, Storms or other natural disasters from other parts of the world.
Additionally the 24 hour news cycles pretty much ensures someone somewhere will be trying to tell us about a disaster.
So is the oil supposed to be blood or wormwood?
Hell, let’s make it a two-fer. I’m sure someone can twist the Book of Revelation to mean both blood and wormwood.
But wait, part of the fairy tale that the christians are waiting for to happen is the revelation of the “Anti-Christ”. Hmmmm, didn’t somebody in the New Testament indicate that the Anti-Christ was already in the world at the time that this statement was written? Really people, how much of this drug induced fairy tale are we going to accept as the absolute “Word of God”? If the “book” of “revelation” had told us to have sex with our siblings while kissing pig’s asses, do you think the catholic church would have included it in the book? How much of this fairy tale was actually written by the catholic church or by some ancient hippie who took to drinking spirits made from mouldy rye?
Actually, the oil spill was caused by tattooed people eating Shrimp Gumbo! In the book of Deuteronomy, there is a law against eating shellfish and having tattoos! It was probably easier for God to punish the people by having an oil spill rather than providing stones to throw at the sinners! Hmmmm, that reminds me….I’ve got to go to the store to pick up a bag of de-veined, uncooked shrimp that is on sale!
Tattoos are also prohibited in Leviticus, as is self harm. Basically, the bible predicted and prohibited Evanescence fans and other emos.
You know that if “we” actually had followed everything in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, none of us would be alive today and there be an awful lot of blood stained stones laying about! For all the natural disasters that have happened, we will always have soothsayers like Pat(sy) Robertson around to blame it on “sinners” that have broken god’s “hol(e)y laws”. Funny isn’t it that NOTHING natural has happened to the child molesting Vaticanites….might that mean that God approves of molesting little boys? St Peter’s Basilica is still standing, the Catholic Church is still very rich(for now) and powerful AND there have been NO oil spills nearby. Surely Pat(sy) must have something to say about this or does he also approve of……well, you get the hint!
I’ve been to Patmos. It’s the proverbial desert island. Still, I think maybe the Romans recognized that John was crazy, and were being merciful when they exiled him instead of executing him. A mistake, IMHO.
[Dumbass containment system activated!]
LOL! That was…. special, huh?
:P
Now if Obama could clean up the real oil spill with such ease!
Maybe he should try the dumbass containment system?
I was quite enjoying the dumbass – shame I had to go to bed! I was trying to see if I could get him to have an apoplectic stroke over the internet :D
dammit! I missed the meltdown………that’s what I get for having a long commute…..sheesh
Aww, I missed the dumbass too. That containment system really worked!
For a taste, check out the Preacher thread on the forum….
Hey wow, I never even noticed this site had a forum!
Sadly, it seems that that thread too has been cleaned up and my insatiable thirst for scandal will remain unsatisfied once again. :(
Got ya covered:
http://stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm
If the apocalypse is immanent, the fundamentalists certainly don’t need a lot of their material things – money, property, etc. I’d be very happy to take these impediments to eternal life off of their hands!
A
Lol – TESTIFY!
Wait help me out here. If the Bible thumpers believe the oil spill is a sign of the end of the world then the drill baby drill chants + Bush’s quest for oil at any cost + being against alternative energy + opposing regulation of the oil industry + Rush saying the oil spill is not a big deal and the ocean can handle it + = ?????
Oh my gosh! The Republican Party is really the Anti-Christ!!! O.o The very party they probably support!
Oh, many Christians would do all they can to move the apocalypse along. So much for giving the unredeemed sinners a chance.
Christians are people who set fire to their house, run out of it before they get burned but making damn sure the rest of the inhabitants remain to get punished for not being more aware of the circumstances which brought about the fire in the first place! And God is going to reward them??!! I think NOT! Very scary folks!
Why do they want your money if the rapture is to occur very “soon”? Will it guarantee them a first class ticket on the heaven bound express?
Could it be that the anti-chirist is a woman? Called Palin in 2012?
Could you be talking about Sarah Plain(oops there I go again, mis-spelling her name) being the anti-christ? If only she went to the wizard of Oz to get a brain……oh….wait….Americans don’t elect republicans with brains….silly me! Yup, she is the anti-christ! Oh me, oh my…..oh dear!! What shall we do?
There is a God and I suggest some of you to start believing. The end of the world can not be predicted. Have a good day
Only some of us? Anyway, go on with yourself, there is no god. I don’t overly care when the end of the world is. I hope it’s after I’m dead though. I don’t see how any of that computes there is a god?
Do you have to see to believe?
Yep.
You know, it’s really hard to just start believing in something which one finds unbelievable.
That ought to be very simple to understand. But I guess not.
Which god in particular? I only ask because YOUR God (I’m assuming that you’re Christian, Jewish of Muslim) was only invented four to six thousand years ago – and the universe is provably at least fourteen billion years old.
I am always appalled that it’s a question of “believing.” If someone said “you’d better start being nice to other beings”, I’d have a much easier time of it. Why would belief alone protect you on judgment day? Does a nasty believer come out better than a saintly person who believed a slightly different doctrine?
Take that to it’s logical conclusion, Rev. An atheist who is good because being good seems to him to be right is a better person than a theist who is good because to not be good would, in his eyes, lead to him being punished.
Agree completely Custador!
Is believing important? Yes, its what this whole blog is about, belief and unbelief. John 5:24 comes to mind JC saying “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. Passing (via belief) from death to life.
But its not about ‘what’ you believe but ‘Who’ you believe. If you believe the Truth (Himself) you can’t go wrong, cant get lost. (unless you allow the religious types to muddy the waters as they will always try an do, hence many of your ‘church’ experiences here).
The Truth can be utterly trusted, yes He can! All the best.
Baloney
Having faith and accepting God into your heart will save you.
FROM? As opposed to? What will happen if I choose not to?
If you choose not to believe you will die and there will be nothing. Do you or anybody ever think about that? What if there is no God? How did we get here? What if there is no afterlife? What happens, does your body die and that’s the end of life as you know it? I used to think about that all the time and it really used to scare me. I have strayed from God but recently I have felt him back in my life. I have started reading the Bible and praying every night and just trying to be a better person. I’m not the type who is going to condemn people who don’t believe because I have no place in judging them. However, I truly believe there is a God and I do believe that non-believers, even atheists who are “good” people, will not be accepted by God because they have not accepted them. And to Andy Paluka, being a good person is only half of what it means to be a Christian, you also need to believe in God, that is what saves you.
Hi JS,
If believing in God makes you a better person, I’ve got no problem with that. You say you’re not going to condemn people for not believing, but that’s exactly what you’re doing! It’s the telling other people that they have to believe in God or go to Hell that is the problem. Especially when you tell them exactly what kind of God to believe in and… you know… burn them at the stake if their beliefs are slightly different. That’s a big part of the Christian tradition, I’m afraid…
Andy
Hell was fabricated by man in order to scare others into believing what ever the torturer wanted. My problem with the WHOLE issue is that we combine God and religion. What if there is an eternal being that exists out of time, space and our corporeal existence…..what if? Religion and money(getting rich) have been always the case throughout history. Man created religion(heaven and hell) in order to control other people’s lives and in that way, an easy way to make plenty of loot…..NOTHING ELSE! Now we blame God for what insanity is foisted upon us by self seeking, greedy bastards only interested in stuffing their wallets by providing an easy access to the divine. Has any one ever not found a “man of God” who hasn’t wanted money or riches? I for one do believe in a “spiritual” “deity”, but not out of fear or death but out of finding something outside of my experience and my physical life. I loathe religion and I am convinced that all those who call themselves God’s messengers are nothing more than prostitutes….and lousy ones at that! In MY personal spiritual quest, I have discovered that God is NOT religion and that should these con artists, who believe they’re going to receive rewards in heaven, actually end up in front of the Judge(the fact is there will be no judgement or judge) they would NOT be happy with the final sentence. Far more guilty are the ones who lead man away from spiritual freedom than the ones who fell for, never heard or believed the deception! They should be far more worried about the hell they put others through, prescribing damnation for those who disagree with them as they may face it in the end!
“I used to think about that all the time and it really used to scare me.” Why would a being who many claim is all about love have to use fear to get people to worship him/her/whatever? Using fear as your guide is not the best way to find answers to questions you have asked. Instead of hiding behind religion ask the other readers of this blog what would be some good books to read to find these answers.
Fear brings in the loot……are you afraid?…..get ready to open your wallet for “Jesus”!
I’m sorry if I used the wrong words. I said it scared me to think that all I/we had was life as of right now. It really used to bother me to think that when I die it would be the end of my body and soul. I am not fearful of God, though I am reverent of Him. The thing that “scared” me was the thought that there was no life after my body died and that my soul would “disappear”.
And to Michael, religion and money have not always been combined into one. Priest’s abuses of the Church spawned during the Middle Ages when priests would offer indulgences to people for fighting in the Crusades. This eventually evolved into priests selling indulgences to relieve sinners of penance and give them righteousness. I understand where you are coming from though, and I do believe that some people use religion as a way to make money. It saddens me that people do this because it makes Christianity look like a scam to alot of people who have doubts.
If you have lived you life to the best of your ability, why would it all ending scare you. Is it that you really fear the unknown or are you afraid of death?
it was a little bit of both…
Have you ever been to a church/temple/synagogue where a collection plate HASN’T been passed around? Before you can say that the building needs funds to stay upright, I ask what does God need of a building/staff/leaders(priests/pastors/preachers)? Money and religion DO go together hand in hand. There is not a single religious group that doesn’t want your money, and again I ask, what does God need of money??!! Refuse to give money “to god” and see if they will be responsive to you. Their job SHOULD be to aid mankind in the evolution of his/her spirituality not get their sticky grubs into people’s wallets and bank accounts. In most, if not all, cases the churches want to know exactly how much you earn in order to calculate how much “God” wants! PTL- not praise the lord….it’s Pass the Loot!
I agree with you that some people do use religion to gain monetary status. However, that is not always the case. When I was younger, my family went to a church that tried made us sign a contract to give a certain amount of money each year before we could even be considered “members” of the church. We only stayed at the church for a little over a month because of this. I think it is wrong to make people pay to participate in religion. But now, we go to a church where giving is strictly voluntary. Even though you are not forced to give every Sunday, it is encouraged(kind of like tipping at a restaurant). A church cannot operate on nothing, and a preacher must be paid money because that is how he makes his/her living. That being said, I do not agree that a preacher should pull into the parking lot on Sunday driving the most expensive car in the lot. Churches need money to operate, but there is also a line that is drawn between necessity and excess. Also, churches must pay for other things like mission trips. Our church does a couple each year and even though every person who goes must pay a little bit, the majority of the cost is covered by the Church. Another example is Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners provided to families in the community who may not be able to afford a good holiday meal. Our church pays for the majority of food provided for free to needy families. There are tons of ways the Church spends the money it is given, it doesn’t just go the pastor of the Church. You may be right in some situations, but there are a lot of churches who don’t fit the stereotype you suggest. God Bless.
A church cannot operate on nothing, and a preacher must be paid money because that is how he makes his/her living.
Yet the apostle Paul worked for his living (as a tent-maker, or so says tradition). And Christianity survived for centuries without church buildings. Why *must* money be collected for these things?
Also, churches must pay for other things like mission trips
Why mission trips? As one of the church fathers supposedly said, “Sit down, young man, God will convert the heathen when he’s good and ready.”
You might believe that giving is voluntary but have you really stepped back and watched how the big givers and the small givers are treated. I would bet the preacher pays much closer attention to the big givers then you might think. You have brought up a subject I don’t see so much as charity by the church as charity by others the church takes credit for. The meals and all your church gives out. Where does the church get the food? Do they go to the local stores and buy the food or are local stores give them the stuff to be given out by the church? Charity is giving without expecting anything in return. I very much doubt that your church just gives stuff away with no expectations.
I hate to bring iy up again: WHAT DOES A “SUPREME SPIRITUAL BEING” NEED OF A CHURCH BUILDING? Jesus spoke of giving WITHOUT expecting anything in return(“Sermon on the Mount” – from the book of Matthew). This is true charity! Every religious organization, at least in North America, gives a tax receipt to all who “donate” to their cause. If those tax receipts disappeared tomorrow, churches would shut down everywhere.The givers are as greedy as the takers! Pat(sy) Robertson endorses “reciprocity” which in his twisted mind means: “give money to “God” and he’ll “send”(somehow…I’d like to see that) money back to you”. I have met people who have fallen for this scam and have gone massively into debt, waiting for God to send them riches and glory!Money….greed…..religion….they all belong together. If you don’t understand the point I’m making, then watch Pat(sy)’s lawyers fight to win against a family determined to protect a deceased, loved one’s estate. It’s happen to my family in our case against the “Salvation Army”. WE LOST! Eternal salvation is just not as much fun as compared to ripping off a senior citizen trying to stay alive on a meager income.WOLVES…..ALL OF THEM!
It is time to make them accountable for the “demonic” sin of greed. Why is there never an excorsist around when you need one?!
Baconsbud-
Believe it or not, people actually do good things just because it seems like the right thing to do. You can argue that people do it for recognition, which in my church’s case is not why we do it. You may say that we feel the need to help others because it makes us feel good. I know you will have an argument for that as well. Regardless, it does make me feel good when I help somebody else out, whether it be delivering Thanksgiving/Christmas dinners to needy families, buying toys for kids who would otherwise not have Christmas presents and taking them to them on Christmas Eve, or going on a mission trip and helping someone repair a roof on their house or even build a house for someone who didn’t have one. You can argue your views of “charity” all you want, and maybe you have a good reason to think the things you do. However, I’ve been apart of and witnessed the “charity” you say does not exist in Christianity. I have never expected anything from the families I have helped and I wouldn’t want to, the greatest satisfaction I get is knowing that I have helped someone in need. I believe that is one of the base principles of Christianity: help those in need.
To JS….are you saying that when people are sending their $18.00 a month to the 700 club that they are REALLY feeding the poor, without strings attached? There is a High Anglican church east of the city I live in that feeds the poor and destitute. What amazes me is that the congregation is so small and not exactly wealthy enough to do all that they do. This is charity! Unfortunately this is not the example of charity Beany Hinn uses when he offers fake healings, takes people’s money and builds mansions for himself, complete with a security force.! Don’t bother telling me that Patsy Robertson lives in a “lean-to”. He believes in reciprocity……the biggest scam in history! Religion + Money = wow, they really fell for it…..we’re rich!
If you want to find an argument, you will. If you want to believe something, you will. We can sit here all day and if you want to believe that people are selfish and only look out for themselves, then you will. If you truly want to believe that some people out there really do have a heart and do help others because its the right thing to do, then you will. I know there are a lot of people who use scams to make money, and many of the times religion is involved. In today’s world, people will do anything to make a buck, from killing a gas station attendant for $50 or claiming they are the reincarnation of Christ and ask people to send them money. When you talked about the church in your city, that is the true meaning of charity. There are many churches out there that practice the same thing.
To JS….I do KNOW there is a god! Nothing will change my SPIRIT on this issue. But I do not trust those who stand by the bible while ignoring EVERYTHING that Jesus taught(something that all of christianity does very well!)! The apostle Paul wrote in Galatians that sin was no longer an issue if the SPIRIT is guiding you(no christian alive would deny that they don’t sin)! Why then is sin still christianity’s BIGGEST issue?! The very issue of sin is what keeps the “faith” going, quite unreasonably! Could it be possible that christianity and all it’s adherents are being guided by the devil( I John, 3)? If you say the bible is infallible…..yup, I guess it is true, indeed! As the Gnostics say: “WAKE UP!”.
JS, if you “know” there is a “god,” you should be able to offer up something in the way of “proof” and “evidence” of this “god’s” existence. No, no arguments for its existence–you’ve got to be able to offer some concrete, tangible proof and evidence of this being’s existence.
Forgive me for asking….Who gives you the right to judge in place of God? Until you have been judged(AFTER you’ve kicked the bucket), you have NOT the right to judge who is accepted by God and who is not! Do I once again have to quote Matthew 7:1-2….”Do not judge, lest you be judged”. What is wrong with Christians that they will NOT read and obey their saviour’s words??!! Is it fun to condemn others…..does it make you feel special? You are not as Jesus said that you will not be one of God’s children if you DON”T follow EVERYTHING that he taught. Get with it….don’t just lip read the teachings of Jesus…..live it ALL! After all, “faith without works is Dead”.
PS……I am saved….at the bank just around the corner and it is NOT affiliated with the 700 Club! Praise the Loot!
where did humans get their conscience… their sense of right from wrong… from?
Evolution. If you’re going to go the other way and suggest that God gave them to us, you need to ask yourself this:
Did God tell us what was right and wrong because those things are inherently right and wrong, or are things right and wrong because God told us they were right and wrong?
That’s an important question; if there are inherent rights and wrongs that God just pointed out to us, then why did we need God? The only thing that could make them inherent is the consensus of our own minds, i.e. we’re evolved to regard some things as right and some things as wrong – so that’s God out of the equation for option one!
But what about option two? Things are right and wrong because God says so. Well, that means that God could make anything he wants right or wrong, and that’s easily debunked. What if God says that beating your children with sticks is right? Or letting a mob of strangers rape your daughters? Or murdering your own son? According to various versions of God’s books, those things are all right. Getting a haircut, wearing synthetic fibres, having tattoos. though? All wrong! So, God is out for option two as well.
Well you’ve convinced me … you don’t know the answer to a question therefore your god exists. How you ever found anyone but the braindead who think this is some sort of “killer” question?
Maybe you could also add this one … where do believers get … their arguements … from?
originally from the bible….or from a box of “Cracker Jacks”….same thing! Happy?
Look at the Earth, Sun, Moon, stars, trees, seas, the birth of a child (if you’ve seen one up close), etc..etc. How can anyone say there is no God? It’s all about love and “relationship” NOT “religion” with God and people. You believe in oxygen because you’re breathing and you need it to live, yet you can’t see, feel, taste, or smell it right? Need I say more? Now if you’ll excuse me I’m going to finish watching the Celtics/Lakers game. Go Celtics!! (even though I’m from Detroit)
Even if you are an atheist, it is hard to deny the signs all around us that something amazing is happening. The government is out of control and police regularly violate basic constitutional rights, the amount of information is exploding, travel has increased, common sense tells you that man cannot continue to live as it has for the past 2000 years. Technology puts power in a small number of hands. In the near future, we will become even more enslaved than we are now to the elite. The mark of the beast (microchip, see: rev 13) is coming soon.
Even if you are an atheist, it is hard to deny the signs all around us that something amazing is happening
And yet, I’m denying it. And I’m finding it surprisingly easy.
Every generation has had its signs and portents. Get over yourself.
The government is out of control and police regularly violate basic constitutional rights, the amount of information is exploding, travel has increased, common sense tells you that man cannot continue to live as it has for the past 2000 years.
Yeah. I mean, it’s like the 1920s all over again. What with the rampant constitutional abuse, and the new communications technology, and the increased globalization. Clearly the old ways would no longer do.
Times, they are a’ changin’.
——
I have to tell you, my favorite part is the part of your comment that takes signs and portents from American politics, as if it was the only political entity that matters. Are they repressing people in Sweden, and if they were, would that be a sign too?
Funny how often the USA constitutes the whole world to a millenialist.
“it is hard to deny the signs all around us that something amazing is happening. The government is out of control and police regularly violate ….,”
You are absolutely correct. In exactly the same way everyone else has been when they have said it for the last 2000 years.
It must be a SIGN!
When you have already decided what the conclusion is, you can always find “signs” that line up to “support” your conclusion or “agree” with a decision you’ve already decided. You are inventing the context limits and then you go reading the news like it’s really new, the time is now, oh god, it’s happening now! You’ve decided there is a god and the bible predicts end times, and fit in the events you happen to notice within a time frame. You let that influence you so you think that everyone must notice the same flow of events in the same context you do — big mistake. Not everyone has such a narrow view of history as you do, nor heeds the bible, which has said the same thing for almost 2000 years, and events over those 2000 years which have been at least as momentous if not more than whatever is happening now. The world, it’s just turning. Jesus is not coming back. That’s a pretty ridiculous assertion.
I wonder how many imminent end times have to happen before Christians give up and get it! It’s been a long time and they are still pretty sure, then nothing happens, and they find more signs and wait in the pumpkin patch again. What idiots!
Don’t hate people because they believe something different than you, that is pretty narrow-minded. I don’t go around calling non-believers “idiots”, so why would you do it? And Jesus is coming back, God is real, there is a Heaven and a Hell, and I know where I’m going, do you?
Why would we not call you an idiot, JS? You’re an idiot, so why do you think we shouldn’t say so?
I don’t hate you for your beliefs. I just think your beliefs are based on a fantasy. I don’t think it is narrow-minded to weigh your beliefs against evidence and call them false. What you have done is assume atheists are looking through the same lens you see the world through, and must be pretty amazed by the current events and unable to deny that there must be some end times action going on. You are the one who is narrow-minded to (a) fit current events into end times wishes and predictions, and (b) presume everyone must be as easily convinced of end times as you are.
So, yeah, that is idiotic behavior! People have been expecting these end times any time now for a couple thousand years. Now is no time different than any of those other times. Jesus will not be back. He didn’t resurrect. That’s impossible, and no, you don’t know where you’re going. If you believe in god — only he knows where you’re going. I don’t believe in god, so I think you’re going to live here and then you’re going to die someday and then nothing. Supernatural things you believe in are simply ridiculous. It’s not close-minded at all to consider belief in the supernatural a somewhat insane way to frame your life, and for people who await eagerly for the apocalypse and Jesus’s return to be wasting their time, if not a lot of earth’s resources. You’re not based in reality, dude.
Sorry, part of my post mistook JS as the person I had initially responded to, Christian Peper. Disregard those parts!
I don’t call you an idiot, but I am unwilling not to call you stupid, just like what the bible says you are.
“And Jesus is coming back,”
He already came and left if you believe in the bible(Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.)
Sorry, but Jesus died two thousand years ago! His spirit(christ) lives! I am a Pentocostal Gnostic. I can guarantee that if Jesus were to come back and see how christianity has performed, he wouldn’t be pleased. He taught love…..christians don’t love…they hate and judge their fellow man! A school of Gnosticism in around the first century taught that in the physical world we are already in HELL and that to evolve spiritually, we will find and enter into heaven in our physical lives. Hence: world = hell, spirit = heaven. I can’t imagine a worse hell than what injustices have been performed on humanity in the name of religion. We are already judged by how we treat our fellow man, so skip the fire and brimstone crap that only hate filled idiots believe in!
To Custador, i guess you can call me an idiot, everybody has their own opinions. Even so, you do not know me. Maybe you think I’m wrong because I believe in God and you don’t, that’s fine. I’m not going to condemn you because that is what Jesus taught not to do.
To Kodie, Jesus did resurrect! At least that is what I believe. Maybe you don’t, again that is fine. To you it may seem impossible, but to me I see it as an act of God. So I can see how for someone who doesn’t believe in God, that an act of God would seem impossible. You also think that my belief in a higher power is ridiculous, well I think not believing in a higher power is ridiculous. Life did not just come out of nowhere, it was created by something or someone, and that is God. And I frame my life around the belief in God, why is that so crazy? I would rather be “crazy” and accept God than be “normal” and not believe in Him.
Darkmatter- The Bible says I’m stupid?
Where did life come from? If from Adam and Eve…….inbreeding and incest(God invented and authorized)…..now I understand how we have a world filled with perverted idiots! The story of Adam and Eve is an allegory, which is one of the ways spiritual “truths” may be passed to others without losing the elemental message. Another medium to convey “truths” is through myths, nursery rythmes and fairy tales. The bible is rife with these kinds of lessons by which man could discern the spiritual meesages. Reading it literally(as ancient Catholics thought it up) is just plain stupid and will get nobody anywhere!
JS, I think you’re an idiot because I, as an atheist, know more about the history and origins of your religion than you do. Christians who come here and grandly proclaim “JESUS LIVES!!!111!!!1!!!111!!!1!!” and other similar messages as if we’ve never heard them before do not deserve to be called anybody else. I can give you a potted history of your own holy book explaining why the supernatural claims it makes are complete crap and telling you when they were invented (for example, the virgin birth myth that got written into the story CENTURIES later), but if you can’t be bothered to learn what it is you’re actually spouting, then I’m damned if I’m doing it for you.
Once again, you do not know me. You do not have any idea what I know about the Bible. You can keep your assumptions to yourself. Good luck with your atheism, I hope it works out for you. If at some point in your life you feel the touch of God, then that is wonderful. God bless you and take care.
I know exactly what your level of knowledge about the history of the bible is from what you said in reply to Kodie. You may think you’re different, somehow gnostic (do you even know what the gnostic movement was?), but to me you’re just another cookie-cutter Christian of the type who post-and-run here constantly. You “know” exactly what a series of preachers have told you the bible says. My advice to you is to read the whole book, cover to cover, with an objective eye (if you’re capable of such a thing) and then come back and talk to us. See if you can’t spot some of the glaring contradictions for yourself, see if the insane twists and logical falacies of the apologists don’t sound hollow to you, see if you can figure out the importance of Leviticus telling us all what recipes we should use for burnt offerings on different days of the week.
I’m not going to sit here and defend myself against someone who doesn’t even believe in the Bible. If you have read the Bible, cover to cover, like you said, maybe you should take some of it to heart. I do not believe everything in the Bible because there are a lot of things that are especially hard to believe. And yes I do know what “gnostic” Christianity is as I am studying the New Testament right now and I do believe that to understand the Bible you should look past the literal meanings presented. Maybe you can enlighten me on the “history” of the Bible.
Oh dear, backed yourself into a corner there. It’s really the most ridiculous thing to me to consider there are folks who look at the bible and can’t believe what they read – actually say that it is too hard to believe!, and yet still believe it is the precious and holy message written by god, and that it’s up to humans to pick it apart and decide what is true and how it is to be interpreted, and then won’t even get into an argument with someone who also doesn’t believe the bible is true! How odd you are, JS.
How is that odd?
Because normally when something is so hard to believe, you discard it as nonsense, you don’t turn it into something you wish it said so you can cling to your deity and believe in salvation. Doesn’t that seem like a silly way to go about things? If some of the bible is not true, why do you believe any of it? And the parts you believe but do not take literally, why do you think god wrote it that way, in a secret code, so you could interpret it to mean what you want it to mean so you can believe that you’re saved if you believe the interpreted version, distancing yourself from those fools who literally believe it is the word of god and take it at face value?
I mean, you are actively creating the god to your vision, just like a primitive man created god because he didn’t know what the F was going on, made up reasons and arbitrary rules to adhere to. You add the step of studying it really hard to squeeze out what you determine to be the really real meaning, but you are doing the same thing. That’s why most of us DO NOT believe in the bible and why you should either take your huff and go if you don’t want to defend yourself, or try to learn something.
I never said the Bible is not true. I said that some parts are difficult for me to believe in. I don’t try to make the Bible mean something it doesn’t. My lack of understanding of some parts does not make the Bible as a whole unbelievable. There are just some things that I just do not understand. If everyone on here knows so much, then teach me. I am an open individual and I respect other peoples’ viewpoints.
That’s exactly like saying you don’t believe everything in the bible – that it’s not (all) true.
That’s exactly like trying to make the bible mean something it doesn’t, so you can believe it a lot easier. Why would god make it up to you to interpret less literally? Why would a supreme being write an important message so that you would have to re-write it so it makes more sense to you?
Okay. I can’t explain myself anymore than I already have. I am a Christian. I believe in God. There is nothing more to say. Apparently we have strayed from the original topic of this discussion but I have enjoyed the conversation. God Bless.
It is my sincere hope that god will reveal some of himself to you. The bible is not the word of god, so let god tell you of himself directly. I am a deist but a terrible critic of people who read the bible and don’t follow it! Only through the spirit can you discern spiritual “truths”, so give into the spirit and close that darn book(the bible)….it is really quite a useless document!
I’m sorry to tell you but the bible was NOT written with the hope that people would read it LITERALLY! You can thank the Catholic Church for convincing their priests and early followers(later one’s couldn’t read Latin) to read it literally. Most of the New Testament was written by Gnostic Christians for Gnostic Christians and can not be understood by anyone else! Proof of this is in the way modern day “christians” do not make any attempt to try and follow anything Jesus said in the “Sermon on the Mount”. In Matthew 7, Jesus tells us not to judge, but this is so utterly ignored. The cornerstone that holds “christianity” together is based on IGNORING what Jesus said. If we can’t judge then how can you determine whether a person is sinning or not? Looking at the books of Elaine Pagels and many others will substantiate this fact. According to Ms. Pagels, Paul was a Gnostic and not what we would call a “christian” today. I am a Gnostic Christian and I do NOT sin, nor do I judge my fellow man…..not even the worst monsters that have done terrible injustices to humanity. It is NOT my place to decide who goes to heaven or hell. As far as I am concerned, and the bible will substantiate my conclusion, modern day christians are the children of the devil(that is if “it” existed….which in fact “it” doesn’t!).
Which Scottsman is the true one?
umm….just a thought. Didn’t the Children of Israel say that “somrthing” was happening and that the world was crashing down, when in 71 AD, the Romans burnt Jersualem to the ground, temple and all? This caused the Dispora….which one might say was a major(?) reason to travel? Furthermore, didn’t the Romans think something was going on when Nero burnt Rome to the ground? Didn’t the Romans also think the world was going to end when their empire was crumbling beneath their feet and invaders were knocking on the front door? We can only guess what the Poles thought of Nostradamus’ “anti-Christ(aka. Hitler)” breaking down their doors. How about the total devastation put upon the citizens of Berlin and Dresden? I know they had it coming because you know what the old phrase: “those who live by the sword, die by the sword”. Trouble is America’s economy is totally governed by defense contracts, sadly financed largely by China! I can’t imagine what people will think when the Chinese come knocking on America’s door, calling in the loans.
Those who are deluded into believing that we’re
in the “end times” are hoping that an eternal being will come along and punish those they don’t like . The trouble is that there are too many christian, fundamentalist soothsayers looking into some one else’s backyard, commenting on how others live and the state of their dwelling while their houses are falling apart. Hence: “take the log out of your own eye, before taking the speck out of your neighbour’s eye”.
Do you think too many people had nightmares when in kindergarten the teacher read out the story of “chicken little”? The “end times”?….only for very small minds!
What do you think about the current situation between Israel and Iran?
wow, just reading this blog makes me feel guilty for not going to church today. I had no idea that things were as sad as they really are. To me and many this blog is just one more conformation of what is approching. Believing in god is believing that I have a hart. I can’t see it but I know it’s there because I can feel it deep inside my body. Faith, hope, love is there anything more important than that? That is what i recieve from believing in god. What do you receive from not believing?
“I can’t see it but I know it’s there because I can feel it deep inside my body. Faith, hope, love is there anything more important than that?”
Feelings, nothing more but feelings.
“What do you receive from not believing?”
Knowing that your faith, hope and love is just based on your emotion.
We know what’s inside the human body because we’ve cut them open and know how they work. You don’t seem to understand how that’s different. Nobody has ever found god inside a human body, so he’s not there. Nobody has produced evidence of god anywhere, only feelings.
> ” What do you receive from not believing?”
We receive exactly the same as you, except that we don’t project our feelings unto some deity of our choice.
Except Paul, the octopus.
Paul, the octopus, we love you. You pick the winner when you eat your dinner, Paul, the octopus, we love you.
Of course, that goes without saying.
Received from Not Believing:
Relief from fear, Peace, Hope and Love.
How do you know? is that faith I hear?
No, it’s not faith.
You openly put your god in the same category as emotions which are not real in the tangible sense. Emotions are interpretations of our body’s chemical reaction to various events. Certainly the en masse reaction that happens with religion (for example, on those televangelist programs) is a purely emotional response; modern psychology has demonstrated this and can reproduce it.
Children often times feel, emotionally, that imaginary friends or creatures are real; just as they feel that their parents are real. Both cases don’t have actual realities despite the emotions actually being their. Just because you feel that your god exists inside of you doesn’t present any proof o that your god is inside you (let alone in existence).
Emotions are in the realm/sphere of the soulical. Spirit is a whole different, higher dimension altogether within man’s being, is where the mysterious ‘kingdom of heaven’ can be found/known. We’ve all been invited to ‘come up higher’, but few ever pack their bags (are willing to leave/lose their own kind & quality of inherited, adamic self life to inherit this elusive ‘kingdom” within) and make the climb, journey to the great heights…within.
The mysterious kingdom of heaven is in the realm/sphere of the buIIshltical. Spirit is a whole, different, higher pile of buIIshlt altogether within your imagination, is where the frothing ‘diarrhea of your thoughts’ can be found/invented. We’ve all been invited to ‘go along with your fantasies,’ but none ever have the brain damage necessary (are willing to stop thinking/lose rational thought of the evolved, human brain to follow your trail of Jesus-crumbs to the fairy-land of nonsense-talk) and make the climb, journey to the great stroke…you’ve obviously suffered.
“Bullshitical” is my word of the day, thank you.
Of course it is, the things of the spirit make no sense to the natural man and mind, are not ‘reasonable’. But neither is Love…Himself who is also Spirit.
That’s why you can never love and know love, John C.
Until you have loved, you can not critize what you have never realized. It is completely clear that you are unable to love anyone including yourself. Sad…..very sad!
What do you call a person without emotions?
I call them Vulcans. ;-)
Kodie, you’ve got a way with words. But why ever speak so angrily to anyone? Come on now. What’s happened to you? Some huge hurt must have taken place. Hey, remember what I say, right now, God is knocking, and he’ll never stop. Don’t be so hard; you’re loved.
What the hell are you talking about? Did you just evangelize me???? BOLD. John C wrote most of that, I just replaced the words he chose for translation purposes. I thought that was a pretty good deed for that day!
Also, you’re evangelizing me, stop evangelizing me! You weirdo. There’s no Jesus. You want to discuss stuff, discuss it, but don’t evangelize people because you don’t understand why people say the things they do the way they say them. Don’t assume people live hurt and broken lives because a joke wasn’t funny to you, or that it’s because we can’t hear “god is knocking,” because that’s just something you like to think. Seriously.
What? Weirdo? I can’t believe you called me a name.
@John C….”soulical”? That doesn’t make sense! The emotion of love, without action or expression, is purely spiritual. Jesus in refering to the two greatest commandments, provided us with two totally spiritual requests: “love god and love one another”. There is no way to sin against these simple, spiritual commandments……unless one wishes to NOT love god. Spiritual life without love is DEAD! Otherwise it is nice to read your Gnostic view on the journey of the traveler. It is a very solitary and private journey, so please do not try to drag others along with you or you may end up taking the wrong road.
” That doesn’t make sense! ”
That’s his shtick.
Christians would say that when you accept Jesus as your savior (savior because he died on the cross for you and took responsibility for your sin) the Holy Spirit lives inside your heart, changing you, and making you into a better person. It’s supernatural- Holy SPIRIT. The Christian faith is based on sacrificial love, with the example of Jesus leading. Spirit, love, and sacrifice. All those feed my soul, make life much more tolerable, and keep me going. It’s really just about feeling loved and then being willing and happy to love others and help them. There’s no use in trying to prove anything. It’s a spiritual matter. It’s about the love. This weekend I’m going out to give people in need on the streets of Chicago cheese sandwiches. I’ll ask if they want prayer, and I’ll tell you, most will shake their heads yes and receive prayers for love, joy, peace, and protection with tears in their eyes. It’ll be a ray of hope, and maybe they’ll feel love from Jesus in their hearts. I hope so, because it’s hard out on the streets. That’s what I can do to make the world a better place, and to share God’s love with others. Call me a freak and a fool. What, fellow faceless bloggers, have you done to share any kind of love with others in need. I have not seen it on this blog. I sense the desperate need to denigrate that comes from a sense of futility and hopelessness. Honestly, it’s a matter of spirit, and the Holy Spirit, if you ever feel it, is GOOD!
Great. You’ve preached your little sermon. Are you finished with your spirit-babble?
Yeah, I am. Thank you for the audience.
And 3 hours later, they’re going to be hungry again, asking where’d that cheese sandwich fairy go. It’s really a nice thing to hand people a sandwich when they’re hungry, but the reality is, as you say, it’s hard on the streets. That temporary feeling of love “from Jesus” that makes you feel like you’ve done a good deed praying for them isn’t likely to get them very far when you’re not handing them another sandwich.
I know Kodie. It does seem hopeless, but it’s what I can do, and you know, I’m a Christian, so I believe that people whose hearts open up to Jesus receive supernatural help and healing. That’s all I can hope for. It makes life livable. Sounds somewhat self-serving, I hear it as I write it. I don’t know anything except the feeling of Peace and Joy and Hope. People do get helped though. People I know personally have been freed from addictions, and given the strength to do amazing things. So there’s my “proof.” But I’ll tell you, it’s not proof I need, because I have this amazing feeling of Peace and Joy and Hope. I know it’s from God. Anyway, You are sweet to comment, as I know we have very different views. I think you have an extreme talent with words. Very FUNNY.
I believe Superman is my boyfriend.
Seriously, magic? Like a magic spell. That’s what you said. You think so, you think it makes any difference. Without praying on people, you can just say something else nice, cheer them up. You think you opened their heart to Jesus with a cheese sandwich bribe? I get that you’re capital P Peace, capital L Love, and capital J Joy, like some super sunshine do-gooder, a little of that has nothing to do with Jesus, a lot to do with you just like being that way, and at least generous, and that rubs off on people in positive ways also. Try it without Jesus one time, and see who feels more empty, you or the street people.
Seriously, magic? Like a magic spell. That’s what you said.
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Supernatural is a little different than magic, but yeah. As for the cheese sandwich bribe, it’s not a bribe, it’s because last time I went out, there were hungry people who asked me if I had food. So I’m bringing food. I don’t know. Deluded or not, I’m filled with peacejoylove, and I feel like talking to people about it. So, I’m grateful to you for your viewpoints, because you know it could get ugly, face to face, with the “freak, weirdo, stupid Christian” talk that’s tossed around. But I’m doing it, because yes, I do believe there is a supernatural shift that takes place, and I believe people are in need of God’s love.
Honestly, most of those people let you pray for them either to get a sandwich, but even more likely, they are already Christian and like someone like you to think of them in this magical wish way, which you seem to think is not quite the same but it is. You’re not causing any supernatural shift here.
If they accept prayer, it’s because they already think it couldn’t hurt, and they like it as much as you do. Just like I think just by wanting it enough, I can stare at the lottery form and sense which numbers will roll out of the bin tonight. Despite my mockery of your sort, I do play that game with myself, but I know really, there’s no effect and it is in my head because I want it so bad.
The recipients are likely already Christian, already pray (same as hope, dream, or wish) for some way out of their situation. If they pray because they are hungry and you think it’s a nice thing to bring sandwiches, that’s thoughtful but not divine. If you brought them free bank calendars, that would make no sense. Hungry people need food — not hard to think of it yourself. But they prayed last time you went, and you didn’t bring them food. They asked you, and you’re responding. That’s not Jesus. That’s how people communicate, with their mouth. God doesn’t bring food, you bring food. You think believing in god makes you want to help and bring food, but you’re just sort of like that anyway.
Treat your neighbors as you would treat yourself.
This is the backbone of Christianity. If you believe in God, you believe in helping others. Whether is be going on a mission trip to Haiti to help the earthquake victims, or something as simple as giving food to homeless people.
“Treat your neighbors as you would treat yourself.”
Christianity is defined not by you wish it to be but what the reality is and the above is in many cases not the reality.
“Treat your neighbors as you would treat yourself.”
You do not need to believe in God for this to make sense. The sentiment predates Christianity, and if it were all that Christianity were about I’d have a lot less problem with it. It’s all the supernatural mumbo-jumbo that you have to swallow that makes Christianity so dangerous, and ultimately so evil.
This is the statement that the Apostle Paul, in my opinion the most influential player in the spread of Christianity, based his theology on. From what I’ve seen, this way of thinking came about during the beginnings of Christianity. There is nothing dangerous or evil about Christianity, unless you consider helping and loving others as dangerous and evil.
“From what I’ve seen, this way of thinking came about during the beginnings of Christianity.”
I’m pretty sure that “be nice to each other” was around before Jesus.
And that part where women should STFU in church, or the part where Christians shouldn’t challenge slavery, or the part where Christians are encouraged to be entertained by their enemies roasting in hell, or the part where one should turn aside from one’s friends and family in order to serve God, or the part…
The part you’re referring to about women keeping quiet in church is in the letters from Paul to Timothy(I and II) and to Titus. However, many scholars agree that these letters weren’t even written by Paul, it is thought that someone in one of Paul’s churches wrote the letters to push through his own agenda. Also, there is a verse in I Corinthians(maybe Chapter 14?) that says the same thing as the letters to Timothy and Titus. Again, looking at the letter to Corinthians, earlier in the letter, Paul says something along the lines for women to partake in church, and then a few chapters later, he condemns it. It is also thought that someone after Paul wrote the letter added this in.
Wait a frakkin’ minute. Upthread you acted all “surprised” when I said that the earliest manuscripts of Mark didn’t contain anything about the resurrection and now here you are talking about scholarly agreement on the authorship of the Pauline corpus? Something ain’t passing the smell test, JS…and I think it’s *you*.
No I thought you said the crucifixion wasn’t in the Gospel of Mark, not the resurrection. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
“The Christian faith is based on sacrificial love,” – It’s also based on eternal torture, don’t forget that part.
“It’s really just about feeling loved and then being willing and happy to love others and help them.” – People can do this just fine without Farie Tales.
“I have not seen it on this blog.” – Because we should use a blog to brag about what good works we do every day of our lives?
“I sense the desperate need to denigrate that comes from a sense of futility and hopelessness.” – I sense a desperate amount of Projection in you.
“
Yeah, maybe…I don’t know. It’s not fairy tales though. I don’t think it’s mere myth. There’s power in the spiritual. And yes, it’s just what I “feel” so there’s no proof. But there is a good way to live in Christianity, and I’m suspicious of those who work so hard to put something down. Do you question why you’re so adamant in your belief that there is no God? Adamant enough to pick a blog apart and try to negate. This blog is so interesting in that so many are taking the time to say there is no God. But really, you’ll never know until he shows himself. Lack of proof is no proof at all. Who really knows? All Christians have is the feeling of Love and Joy and Peace that comes from believing. It’s spiritual/supernatural. Also, churches do good around the city. I live in Chicago, and I SEE them feeding the hungry, sheltering the sick, loving the unlovely. There’s good in it, so I still ask you, why work so hard to denigrate?
Not all Christians (or people who believe in anything anywhere supernatural) are the same, and many are like you, they don’t think atheists need to speak up. Do you know how much of a presence your imaginary friend talk has in the US or the world? Perhaps you don’t realize that atheists are the least trusted group in America. It does not seem fair that you can talk and preach and pray to sell your Jesus cheese sandwiches free to homeless people and atheists have to bottle up when the religious infringe upon our space with non-reality.
To legislate wrong education instead of science, or to legislate policies that take “end times real soon now” into heavy consideration. That is out of touch with reality, and why should we stand for it? Do you have any idea that gay people shouldn’t marry or what? A lot of laws still lean on this book you have, while you ignorantly spray sunshine farts all over Chicago as if it’s “all good.” I would bet you agree with some or many of the things that are not agreeable to so many people, simply for taking Jesus into your heart. It’s not all good. Why should we sit quietly? Atheists would have not much to say if religion didn’t push so hard against so many human rights, and reality in fact.
Why don’t you know this? You should be ridiculed for the fact that you don’t know why atheists need to say anything, because you haven’t done anything wrong. You don’t think you’ve done or said anything wrong, but you have. #1 is thinking “all Christians are like me,” and secondly, pride, 3, you condescended to me and evangelized me, D). ignorance of the misdeeds of so many who call themselves Christians, and grand finale: your persecution complex came out way too soon!
Please try to understand, you sound like you mean well, but get your head out of the sand, honey.
I’m not into science vs. the Bible for evolution, so don’t glob me there. I believe both are true, side by side. I guess if pressed in the company of Christians who were all “evolutions a lie” I’d have to agree to disagree with them. And I have other differences, which you don’t want to be bored with, but this I know. There is no condemnation in Christ. You know, I am a rank sinner to many Christians I’m sure, but this is the deal with me, I sin and God knows it and he still fill me with my “magical feelings” (crack up) so I’m spreading that word. And my Pastor spreads that word- the main message being the no condemnation message.
I think I get what you mean about your beliefs not being heard. Thanks for that insight. No, I’m not going to twist it for my purposes to evangelize. People are so suspicious of Christians too, so I’m shaking my head now.
What do you mean my persecution complex came out?
It’s been great talking to you. It was very enjoyable! I bet I’ll be kicked off for my little “God is knocking” comment, though admittedly, it was more antagonize than evangelize. Scuze it. If I’m not ejected, hope we’ll talk again. And I still want to know, what do you mean my persecution complex came out? Too soon? Because I like to keep that under wraps. Hahah…seriously though, I know what you mean about the law and “end times.” It’s scary to think who has power and what they’ll do with it. And! you can never know what people are really made of, thinking, planning on…As in, the Texas mayor who committed murder and suicide this week. Her coworkers are stunned, saying she was very involved, doing great work, blah blah. She was ill and struggling, and no one knew. Come on.
Well, I’m not trying to glob you for behaviors you haven’t admitted to yet. You sound like an ok not hateful person, but there are even some like you who reserve a little hate for groups of people it says in the bible it’s ok to hate — you haven’t said anything like that yet that I recall, so I’m not trying to homogenize Christianity into some hate group we love to hate. As a concept, it makes no sense and we talk about that a lot (some of it is recovery, and some of it is semantics, etc), and individually we can try to communicate about specifics…. and then hate you if we must, lol. Believers often serve as a helpful perspective if they don’t jump to conclusions, make presumptions, evangelize, etc. We’re not against the contribution or purposely make life difficult for you.
That’s very nice. If I’m not ejected, rejected, out the game, I’ll post more. OH, I’ll tell you about all the miracles I encounter this weekend out on the mean streets. That should start a discussion. Laugh.
I know I’m over a week late to the conversation, but Kodie, do you mind if I ask if you have read the Bible?
I’m always curious if people make judgments about Christianity based on the people that supposedly represent it, or from their reading of Scripture. I find this blog fascinating as so many people have been enraged by Christian thought and I wonder if it’s the people who make the faith so unlikeable or the Bible? Or I guess it could be both.
Same with the FSM, Allah, Zeus, and Santa Clause.
Protect pedophile priests, create traffic problems on Sundays, pay no taxes for being the service-industry equivalent of homeopathic remedies, turn away those in need at their doorstep…
When was the last time you saw a church open its doors for the homeless? (not just for some P.R. project)
Nah, they keep it nice and clean for those of you with money to give them!
Well in my church, we have a program where we allow homeless people to stay in our church for a period of time, I think it’s about 10 weeks or so, so they have access to showers, toilets, etc. We let them stay in the rooms that we conduct Bible study in and have two meals a day prepared for them by volunteers in our church. We do this so they can get a job, get back on their feet, and eventually be able to afford an apartment to live in on their own. Now, I didn’t see any news cameras or articles in the newspaper when we have people stay there. We didn’t do this for recognition, but simply to help the less fortunate in our community. Sadly, I know some churches don’t do things like this, but a lot of them do, you just never hear about it.
I will say, that’s nice of your church, and a good way to give to the community.
But I wish that “churches” were just people getting together and doing things like that simply because it’s a nice thing to do; not because it’s fear of a cosmic boogeyman.
Well it is kinda like that, we do do it to help people out, but we also do it because that is what Christianity revolves around: helping others.