The following is a guest post by Sandra Price.
I questioned a very nice man yesterday who explained to me that he was recently saved. He had been told the story of God and Jesus as a child and never questioned the story. From his discussions about his early days, there were no books but the Bible, no music except what was in church and on the radio. There was no extended education and he joined the Navy during the Korean War. He is a very America-loving individual with strong family values. This man is now in his mid seventies, happily married, with many friends in the community. He is far more popular in our area than I am because he has accepted God and a promised spiritual life after he dies. I envy his assured life and future. He admitted that joining the armed forces may be the only choice for today’s American youth. Fighting and killing for America is a guaranteed job, insurance, retirement and a way to see the world.
This is a typical American man who is totally secure in his choices. I tried to locate a spark of interest in a deeper look at human values and there is nothing to spark. When I asked him about faith versus fact, he threw the old bromide at me that we should never discuss religion and politics. I asked him why and the conversation ended.
We can stop billboards for God and put up our own ads for our own truths but we cannot and should not expect a single conversion from a brain and mind who is totally content with what they learned as children.
These folks assume that Humanists have never read the Bible. If we had, we would believe as they do. They have no knowledge of the history of the various churches and how they used terrorism to sell God and Jesus. The history of the Inquisitions in Europe has never held an interest to them and Science is based on myths from outer space.
How do we approach this attitude? How successful were we as parents to stop the indoctrination of the promise of Paradise? Why do we need to?
If we take a look at what has triggered the massive wars and slaughter of people, it will take us back to “my God is good, and yours is bad.” We have several generations of Americans who believe that Jews and Catholics are the enemy. We search for the words of our founders for the truth and the interpretation of their words brought on a deadly civil war in America. It was the Christians churches who wanted to slaughter people of color including our American Indians. When this was prohibited by our Constitution, a war on homosexuals was started and innocent gays were tortured and killed. We have a man running for office today who wants the freedom to ban certain people from being served in public restaurants. Who is behind this reversal of civil rights? The Christians.
We are heading back to the dark ages. With our Christian-American values blasted all over the world, it is no wonder Islam wants us dead. We take pride in our Crusades to kill off others who never heard of Jesus. The history of the Missionaries in South and Central America is a tragedy of annihilation of the masses. It all starts when a head of the household teaches his children to massacre “those other people.” Many of our last three generations were not taught human values. They were given the information that they were chosen by God as Christians to work for the “end of times.”
In America it is now to the point of giving a litmus test to all our candidates before we elect them to guarantee that they know who the enemy is. It has been America’s dirty little secret since the end of WW2. This attitude has eased up somewhat but not nearly enough to claim that we Americans are free.
How do we become free? We can start with education.
The State of Texas has decided that the academics in their schools must include a Christian God. The fear is that their children may catch a touch of freedom from those sinners in California is being challenged by the Texas Supreme Court and should be a problem for the U.S. Supreme Court before the Union is split over freedom of religion.
America is heading for another religious war waged against non-Christians and the kick off was seen in the Republican Primary of 2008. All the Candidates had to expose their lack of belief in Evolution. The question was offensive and the answer was a tragedy.
The experiment in the development of a free nation has failed. The first generations of Americans were fabulous and the following generations were the developers of scientific discoveries that would lead the world in many subjects. We went from the horse and buggy to men walking on the moon.
A similar growth was seen in the Middle East where we all recognized the growth of math and science and in Europe where art and music brought on our culture. What happened?
The Catholics hit Europe and music, art, architecture all fell under the rules of the Pope; in the Middle East Mohammad took over the science and development of the Muslims. In America the Christians began to promote prohibitions of freedom of religion and the development stopped except in the development of killing and torture weapons. Many writers have exposed this destruction of the human mind that will destroy our planet.
When will it stop? If one takes a look at which God out numbers the others, the Christians will win in anticipation of Armageddon. This is not a new fight as we have seen what Christian soldiers can do to enemy gods. It is not enough to kill others, but to demolish depictions of their Gods.
I’m sick with worry that so few humans can see where all this fighting can lead. When Rome took over the British Isles, it was total destruction and sent millions into hunger and agony. Has anyone read about this horror? Crown heads of England massacred millions of humans when the Pope tried to issue laws on the Tudors. Even the art of the Renaissance was in jeopardy. Slaughter of humans hit a new high under the various Popes who tried to change humans into clones of the saints. These books are covered in dust in many libraries where people have no interest in human values.
It is long past the time when all humans must talk about religion and politics. What is it in their minds that cannot explain what and why they believe as they do? I understand blind faith but not blind killing of innocent people. I understand people wanting to sell Jesus to their children but how can they explain the consequences for killing innocents? The answer is that in the minds of Christians there are no innocent people.
What do we do?
My hope for humanity is that the next 3 generations can see through the hypocrisy of the churches, mosques and temples. I believe that this will erupt in America and the rest of the world will join us in dividing our species into groups who will fight for the end of civilization. Winner gets into heaven.
The problem is that there is no place left for Humanists. I will never take up a weapon to kill another human. Of course I am at the end of my life and my kids are survival trained to protect themselves. The human species has lost by default and I can only hope someone has written down all this emotional war mongering based on superstition and the supernatural. We ignored the great Aristotle and the other great masters of logic and reason. We ignored the brilliant mind of Shakespeare who exposed the hypocrisy of his day. We ignored the emotional expression of love given to us by Verdi, Puccini and Mozart. We look at the Roman statuary in the Vatican and wonder why someone would hack off the sex organs of those glorious men.
This action should prove to all humans that our Christian leaders are sexually stimulated by looking at Greek and Roman Porn. It is nothing but poorly programmed brains instilled from childhood on human beings. It is no wonder our Priests cannot be trusted.
The future of Humanism will never be accepted in America. The whole concept of individual freedoms for all humans is being attacked by all phases in all religions.
I will do what my friend did yesterday and simply shrug and walk away.
Well written, and though provoking.
My first thoughts:
As much as I want to blame religion, I think that human psychology is more culpable than any ideology. Looking at the clinical experiments of Maugrim and the Stanford Prison experiment, I see a species of ape that is easily convinced of an ‘us vs them’ attitude. I’m watching that same dynamic unfold in my beloved skeptic community. We’ve dehumanized the Teaparty activists. We call them teabaggers, and other derogatory names. We consider them brain washed and misguided. We’ve stopped thinking of them as individuals.
Education is the key, you’re correct. But beyond history and science, we need to learn to constantly examine our own lives. Explore our own prejudices. Religion doesn’t make one stupid. Wanting a small government doesn’t makes someone cruel. I may disagree with people who hold those views, but I cannot let myself begin to lump them into one amorphous group.
Religion is evil, not in and of itself, but because it creates an ‘us’ or a ‘them’. Read up on those two studies, and compare them to the real world events under Stalin, Pol Pot, Rwanda, Bosnia, and of course Nazi Germany. We don’t need religion to kill each other. We just need a line of demarcation.
It’s funny to see the direct correlation of humanitarian depression to religious fanaticism and surprisingly anticlimactic to re-realize the ‘Bone Dense’ theology some bible thumpers (most/all bible thumpers?) portray in how they regard the absence of information to be a triumph. I’ve been in situations trying to explain the absent of logic in religion to believers only to be intellectually dissuaded by invalid arguments attributing faith and “emotional progression” to happy lifestyles and “inherent truths” and it’s unfortunate but honest for me to say that I’m relieved that I’m not the only one who cannot dissuade everybody. I almost think that it would take a Scrooges Christmas scenario to change the stagnant mentality of some concrete believers and no matter how much logic I inject into a conversation/debate it seems replicating that progress is futile. I want nothing more than to open eyes and hearts of people who live like this old man does but the symmetry of an argument is astounding when I question why I should shatter his believe system (However stupid they may be). Then it hits me… so he doesn’t rot other people’s minds!
As beautifully written as this is – I must respectfully disagree.
Oh, not in substance – it is true that the thrust of our society is shown in the popularity of the apocalyptic vision offered by any number of evangelical preachers (and those organizations that support them) and the utterly asinine actions of public councils like the Texas school board. Perhaps fortunately, I find I have a more hopeful notion of the relevant causes.
Church enrollment is shrinking across the board, even in its bastions in the deep south. “Young people”, a group that I would define as those of Gen X and younger, report far less identification with any faith than any previous generation – to a startling degree.
The author is right. The hegemony of faith is failing simply because we have grown to distrust anyone who proclaims authority; the very force that is damaging scientific endeavor (by causing us to question anyone who claims to know the truth) is being driven by the underlying hypocrisy of those who have, for generations, claimed to know truth and offered only truly empty platitudes. Is there comfort in faith? Of course. However, increasingly that comfort is hollow.
Like any philosophical construct, faith for its own sake is coming to its end. Perhaps not in this generation, perhaps not in the next, or even in the one after that – ideas take a very long time to die, and don’t often go gently. In fact, it is likely safe to say that the violence being flailed about in recent days is an attempt to hold on to relevance in a world that is increasingly hostile to ideas that oppress and enslave rather than enlighten.
All things have their time. All ideas have a life cycle. The church has had a two thousand year arc, certainly, but barbarity does not hold in the face of enlightenment. Religious organizations must avoid truth; the more they try to put their (let’s be honest here) placebo up for scrutiny, the more it becomes obvious that it is, in fact, a placebo. Islam’s nations are, as the author points out, examples of what happens when religion manages to compromise free speech… but even there, the brittle wall of ignorance fails due to humanity’s simple need for truth.
Western society is predicated on freedom – and thus it creates a dichotomy. You cannot be free and be beholden to a ‘faith’. You cannot respect your neighbor’s freedom by curtailing it. In the last two generations unthinkable strides have been made in the US alone to recognize personal freedom and endeavor, strides that were opposed at every turn by religion and its conservatism. Sexism. Racism. They fell, one by one – in less than a generation. What’s left? Homophobia is on the block. In another thirty years, our legacy will be one that grows increasingly more tolerant, increasingly less bound by the altar.
For those that look at the US and say it is depressing that 48% of americans refuse to ‘believe in evolution’, remind yourself of the Scopes Monkey Trial and the fact that a mere fifty years ago that number would have been much higher. For those that say ‘evangelicals have seemingly taken over the news’ – look to politics. Only 34% of the american public willingly self-identifies “Republican” these days, and only 14% of Americans claim to be members of the reactionary Tea Party… and there is a large overlap here.
The cultural revolution continues. I cannot be sad – only realistic. The times continue to change, an change brings with it uncertainty and upheaval.
How much different will our world be when the Boomers aren’t in charge? That time is coming /awfully/ quickly, after all. My grandfather was openly racist. My father loses business if he uses the ‘n-word’ like he wants to. I am an open athiest working for a Catholic organization. My, how times change, hmm?
Wow- how insightful and well written! Thanks!
:)
Agreed, very insightful. I see the validity of panic when the decreasing humanatarianism is so undeniable but at the same time statistics dont lie, less and less people are retaining intentional ignorance as education becomes more widely available (Internet, educational systems(nix Texas)) and I see a bright future maybe 4/5 generations downward but until then? Turmoil like god being taught in school and bible belts existing show that there is still much to be done
I hope that natural selection weeds out these destructive memes. Some people may be happy in their ignorance. But that’s a consequence of other factors in their lives, not the ideology. Living your life according to fairy tales will lead to conflict and unhappiness, sooner or later. And the ones who don’t will eventually die out. The decline in racism over the past generation is evidence of the hard core racists simply dying out and not being able to pass on their bigotry in the open. A similar process is happening with regard to religion’s uncriticizable position.
And when exposed to heavy doses of facts, fairy tales have a hard time remaining credible. The failure of Christianity to take full advantage of the Internet is indicative of that. It’s hard to avoid inconvenient facts cruising the Web. All we skeptics need to do is to tell the truth and not shut up.
“When I asked him about faith versus fact, he threw the old bromide at me that we should never discuss religion and politics.” – after he just did, at length.
I hope someone will assist her in editing for historical inaccuracies, generalizations and exaggerations. The truth is bad enough.
I think that there is a place for humanists. Do what you can to keep Star Trek on the air forever; it’s one of our best weapons.
No I don’t think people really fight about religion. People fight about land and resources. Religion just makes a continent excuse. If you took away religion we would simply find another excuse, or just be honest and admit that we are fighting about land and resources. Heck the Soldiers that the US sent to Iraq knew they where going there because of oil. And in early interviews they said as much. Eventually the powers that be caught on and educated them to give other excuses.
The thing is that every ideal can be misused. And any position if taken too far can take us to some very dark places. Theists like to point to communism and say see this is where Atheism leads. To some extent they are exactly right. It doesn’t have to but it can. And the persecution of minorities in the name of equality is just as virulent as under any religion.
In theory every model of society is perfect. The Kingdom filled with smiling an contented peasants working for their king. The democracy where the will of the people is achieved and the Workers paradise where all have liberty and equality. In Practice there is always corruption and inefficiency. While we may point at some western countries and say see but democracy works, what about all the places and times where clearly it is not working? Where Corruption is so entrenched that it is impossible to win office without ending up with debts that must be paid. What about all the places where dictators have been elected into power?
“In theory every model of society is perfect. The Kingdom filled with smiling an contented peasants working for their king. The democracy where the will of the people is achieved and the Workers paradise where all have liberty and equality. In Practice there is always corruption and inefficiency.”
Excellent point!
Its viable and honest to conclude that humans will, in lack of theistic conflict, end up killing one another reguardless. Even as I would agree that its illogic to conclude that there would be no war if religion had been eradicated I would assert that theistic conquest has been the underlying propensity to much death and hatred that would otherwise not have been there at all. I propose this without statistics or any evidence to back myself up in this blog but with the unfortunate understanding of what can happen to a society with god and spears meets another society of gods and arrows
“The problem is that there is no place left for Humanists…” … in the United States, at any rate. Hubris has a way of catching up though.
Well written, and more than a bit chilling. It had me writing out diatribes about how though there is no evidence for God, there is plenty of evidence for It (big-I It, for I refuse anthropomorphizing something that has no flesh, and thus no penis) being a detriment for society, and a negative influence on fundamental American values.
Your best defense against mind control is education. Education is an individual choice. Never associate with ignorance unless you’re attacking it.
this is an interesting post and I agree with the broad sweep but the historical inaccuracies are egregious.
“When Rome took over the British Isles, it was total destruction and sent millions into hunger and agony. Has anyone read about this horror? Crown heads of England massacred millions of humans when the Pope tried to issue laws on the Tudors.”
I’m sorry but this just didn’t happen. Protestant and Catholic monarchs of England killed each other in roughly equal numbers. These numbers however were fairly small and were hundreds not millions.
So I agree our best defense against mind control is education, so try and get the facts right!!
It is disturbing how dangerous religious people are when they think they are doing good and being harmless.
They are similar to the girl C.S. Lewis described in The Screwtape Letters. This christian author described her christian beliefs as unthinkingly accepting; any other belief was just too silly to be entertained. He went on to say that it was as if she had been raised in a home that used only certain fish-knives, and upon seeing any other type of fish-knives, would conclude that they “weren’t real fish-knives at all”.
Even a christian could spot the usual blind, rote, automaton christian beliefs.
It’s always amusing to everyone to divide the world into two kinds of people, but I do perceive the contrast between people who question, challenge, learn, and change their beliefs accordingly, and those who unthinkingly accept almost like a knee jerking when tapped with the hammer. Neither side can comprehend the other. But I will posit that the latter side can’t comprehend the former due to a lack of intelligence.
I agree. It is a sensationalistic statement, but look at the slow, subtle (or not) forms of action it takes, not just the extreme form. Colloquial sayings would call them “shades of gray” or “the handwriting on the wall”.
Examples: Texas history revision and creationism in schools. The Republican “test”. More and more punitive attempts to “get America back”. Punitive anti-abortion measures by people who also oppose the contraception that would prevent need for abortions. The “religious right”, which would be a self-contradicting term that people would shun if we had true separation of church and state. One of the words relates to religion, the other to politics.
And I expect WOOOO John C EEEWEEEE THERE IS MORE to post now that WEEEEOOOOO the christian writer C.S. Lewis has WOOOEEEEE come up.
Two of Lewis’ fiction books are great, but I enjoy them for his incisive, scathing insight into people rationalizing their own dishonest actions, while disagreeing with his christian premises. He cuts a swath through OooowoooOOOO christians as well.
I admire C.S.Lewis, but not a huge fan candidly, is a bit too ‘heady’ at times. But his predecessor, George MacDonald (1824-1905)? Now there’s the real deal, just love his ‘spirit’.. Since you brought him up Claid’ster, here are a few of my favorite GM quotes for your enjoyment this evening:
CS Lewis said (after reading GM’s book Phantastes) said “Imagination does not merely daydream, it processes and composes the truth”.
GM Quotes:
“A man is in bondage to that which he will not part with that is less than himself”.
“The Wrath of God will consume what we call ourselves so that the real self God made shall appear”.
“To obey Christ is the ascend to the pinnacle of my being”
“There is a childhood into which we have to grow, just as there is a childhood which we must leave behind. One is a childishness from which but few of those who are counted wisest among men have freed themselves. The other is a child-likeness, which is the highest gain of humanity”.
GM Poem:
Lord, loosen in me the hold of visible things;
Help me to walk by faith and not by sight;
I would, through thickest veils and coverings,
See into the chambers of the living light.
Lord, in the land of things that swell and seem,
Help me to walk by the other light supreme,
Which shows Thy facts behind man’s vaguely hinting dream.
I admire C.S.Lewis, but not a huge fan candidly, is a bit too ‘heady’ at times. But his predecessor, George MacDonald (1824-1905)? Now there’s the real deal. Here are a few of my favorite GM quotes for your enjoyment this evening Claid’ster!
CS Lewis said (after reading GM’s book Phantastes) said “Imagination does not merely daydream, it processes and composes the truth”.
GM Quotes:
“A man is in bondage to that which he will not part with that is less than himself”.
“The Wrath of God will consume what we call ourselves so that the real self God made shall appear”.
“To obey Christ is the ascend to the pinnacle of my being”
“There is a childhood into which we have to grow, just as there is a childhood which we must leave behind. One is a childishness from which but few of those who are counted wisest among men have freed themselves. The other is a child-likeness, which is the highest gain of humanity”.
GM Poem:
Lord, loosen in me the hold of visible things;
Help me to walk by faith and not by sight;
I would, through thickest veils and coverings,
See into the chambers of the living light.
Lord, in the land of things that swell and seem,
Help me to walk by the other light supreme,
Which shows Thy facts behind man’s vaguely hinting dream.
All the best!
My apologies for the double dipping D, didn’t intend to sir, I promise ya! All the best.