by VorJack
This was kicked around a bit in yesterday’s post, but let’s focus on it a bit more.
How should the attendees at Comic Con respond to Westboro Baptist?
Some thoughts: Westboro seems to want two things, publicity and lawsuits. So the best response is to deny them both, while still marginalizing them.
Some folks have had luck just blocking them from the view of their intended victims, but I think most of us would rather be more proactive.
Absurd mockery seems to work, like the way Purdue’s Society of Non-Theists dealt with an annoying campus preacher. That was pure serendipity – he just happened to show up on their annual Pastafarian Preaching day – but it’s hard to take someone seriously when people are dancing around them singing pirate songs.
Any ideas?
i saw some comic writers and/or artists on twitter mention donating a certain amount of money for each hour they are outside protesting to gay rights groups, or atheist organizations in fred phelps’ name.
win
Great idea. I’d suggest a slight modification – make it a general donation event open to anyone at Comic Con (and people online), and preferably put up an electronic sign in plain view of the Phelps clan to show them how the donations steadily accumulate.
It wouldn’t have anything specific to do with comics, but it sure would be delicious payback. And at the same time it supports a good cause.
One wonders how the Westboro Baptist church would react if their Sunday religious services were picketed by gays and atheists protesting heterosexism and theism.
Michael Moore did that on a documentary. Technically it wasn’t in their Church, but the WBC were protesting homosexuality and then Moore came with a truckload of flamboyant gays to annoy them by acting camp.
But undoubtedly someone must have picketted their services with the amount of hate they get.
Ideally (to my mind) there would be no pictures, no interactions, no blogging or tweeting about them, no media — nothing. Just utterly ignore them so when they eagerly scour the web looking for mentions of themselves at Comic-Con, they are firmly denied.
Yeah, I know, this ain’t gonna happen. But I’d love to see the trolls go completely unfed.
ZenMonkey, that would be the best of all worlds. It’s why I mostly ignore anything to do with WBC, trying to practice what I preach.
There is another side to WBC’s actions. They tend to bring communities together. During many of their visits, Christians, atheists, gays, straights, and many others gather to protest their hate. As despicable as they are, I have to wonder if they aren’t a force for good in the world. By blatantly laying out how hate filled the anti-gay groups are, they expose a naked, ugly face that is easy to despise.
Agreed. I’ve seen a couple of clips of church members laughing and even singing with people protesting them. They shouldn’t be allowed to have any fun.
Well ZenMonkey is probably right about feeding trolls, but I would do it anyway in this case. The usual WBC tactic is to get someone to throw a swing so they can sue. The crowd at CC can probably think of some good ways to f*ck with the phelps clan without resorting to violence…
Maybe a guy in a Thor costume with a day-glo orange and green sign that says “Thor hates christians”, or a giant banner of the last page of Preacher by Garth Ennis being put up across from where WBC will be picketing.
Yeah. Being someone from Kansas who has seen the dirty tricks Phelps uses, there is not much to do. They like to use their children, so even if you just want to flip them off. You can’t because you are an actual human being who doesn’t want to hurt the feelings of a little kid. Even though the kids are being brain washed by the parents. Anyway, not blogging or showing more attention on the issue would be the way to solve it if we lived in a more mindful grown up society but we don’t. The only real weapon is smart humor. If you can make others actually think how stupid all this is with intelligent humor, you can change the world.
I like the thor sign. Or maybe make a sign that says “Jesus was a mutant!” I saw that in a x-men comic once. It stuck in my head.
I have no problem giving a little kid the finger or having a little kid see me give their parents the finger, or curse at them. I dislike when I’m inclined to do so, that someone will censor me and say, but there’s kids around. I don’t think giving anyone the finger in this case would even be effective or even really provide relief or satisfaction for the person making the gesture. I certainly would feel like I hadn’t done enough, but what is enough.
It’s hard to turn that feeling around and take that power away from the Phelps. They’re going to feel satisfied with their efforts no matter what, and that’s the feeling you want to take away from them. You can ignore them, but not everyone is going to. Even if everyone did, I think they’re as delusional as someone who thinks flipping them the finger is “showing them,” they’re going to feel self-righteous anyway. And they want to get beat up, that’s a hard-on for them.
If you can just make it up in your mind that their satisfaction with the efforts are hollow and vile and nothingness, that they are nothing, no matter how much they think otherwise, you sort of win. We want our enemies to cry, to feel powerless, we want them to go home depressed and crawl into bed and eat a box of cookies and get a shut-off notice from their electric company and feel hopelessness as they reach for the remote and they can’t even find comfort in tv because they didn’t pay their bill, and cry some more and make their cookies all salty and wet.
They’re delusional, so nothing’s going to have that effect on them. So, nothing. Just try not to think about it, because they really have no power; the more you think about it, the more power you give them because they’re in your head anyway.
Hang on, isn’t the last page of Preacher [SPOILER, kind of] Jesse and Tulip riding off into the sunset? [/SPOILER] How would that be contextually relevant to the WBC nonsense?
I was actually referring to the scene [SPOILER] where the SoK kills god. I thought that was on the last page but I’d have to check.
Someone needs a poster sized version of the ‘Your god was nailed to a cross, my god has a hammer. Any questions?’ picture.
Link
http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/4/26/633763766100652315-ChristianityMygodhasahammeryourgodwasnailedtoacrossAnyquestions.jpg
I like what this kid did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Of_2ykZpQ
Thanks, Lisa S! Good link!
Counter-protest by the First Church of Shatnerology (much the same principle as the Pastafarians, but more appropriate to the locale). It’s a pity that the Shat isn’t one of the guests, because they could call on their god to appear…
That would be perfect. I’d like to see the Phelps clan top that. :)
Just say that you’re the church of the Dark Side. Then challenge them to summon their god. When they can’t, you simply have Darth Vader and the 501st walk out.
I’d be up for chucking a satchel-bomb into that obscenity they all gather in and call “church” one Sunday morning, then banging on the detonator until it went “click”.
Quit holding back, let us know how you REALLY feel.
Hey, that was the polite version! If I was in a bad mood I’d save Fred Phelps and his troll-doll daughter until last and finish them both off with a stapler just to see how long it would take.
Someone needs to carry a sign with a picture of Thor on it that says, “My god has a hammer, yours was nailed to a cross. Any questions?”
lol
I have to remember this one. LOL
Put together a platoon of bicyclists, each with airhorns attached to their bikes. Ride past them constantly, blowing the horns.
Vevuzelas?
BRILLIANT!!!
THIS
@Lana: +10 internets, you have advanced a level!
I’m telling you – gather all the storm troopers and a darth vader and then confront them… the Empire Strikes Back! Show them the true meaning of organized protest.
best counter protest signs evah: http://laughingsquid.com/san-franciscos-answer-to-westboro-baptist-church/
I had hard time breathing from laughing watching these.
I’m convinced that they genuinely believe that God’s wrath is being poured out on us as punishment for our sin, so I don’t really think any sort of counter-protest is going to make a difference. The more vocal and outspoken people are about the protests, the more they feel that their protests are justified. And I mean, aside from the superficial level of hate, they appear to be pretty nice; plus, they’re nonviolent protesters, so I say just let them do their thing.
“Pretty nice”? What is the matter with you? Picketing the funerals of deceased soldiers, actors, whoever, telling their family with vocal rage that ‘god hates fags’ and that their loved ones are burning in hell as they speak is not, in any way, in the same solar system as ‘pretty nice’. These people are viciously cruel – they aim to cause psychological pain to the bereaved then cash in at a court when that pain overflows into a violent reaction.
I should have specified physically nonviolent.
Yes, protesting aside, they seem to be pretty normal and nice (or maybe pleasant is a better word) people. And I honestly feel that they are a bit misunderstood. Like I said earlier, I think they genuinely believe that they are warning people of God’s wrath. In their minds, they aren’t preaching their hatred, they are preaching God’s hatred. Obviously, it doesn’t come off as that to everyone else, but in their eyes they are doing us all a favor by proclaiming God’s wrath.
I absolutely agree with you. These people actually believe they are doing good by warning the rest of the world about gods wrath… They also believe that because the world hates them, it’s proof that what they are doing is the right thing as it says so in the bible. They really just need to be ignored. When people get angry and shout hate back at them, they actually feel like they are getting a pat on the back for a job well done. If I were there, I wouldn’t bother wasting my breath on them.
Totally! Here in the real world, yeah, they look crazy and kind of mean, but in their eyes their doing us a favor, and no matter how delusional I think that is, I can’t fault them for being sincere. Plus, if I’m just going to retaliate at them with equally hateful words, how am I any different than they are?
Christ Jesus, I meant “in their eyes they’re”
I don’t know if you can or can’t “fault” them for being sincere. I mean, I think that’s what we’re all talking about and why it’s kind of hazardous to leave them be, in a sense. At their protests, I think leaving them be is the best way to handle them because they’re attention whores.
Here in the space where we’re talking about it, a lot of people have sincere beliefs and sentiments which are attached to insanity. Someone tries to comfort your grief and tell you your loved one is in heaven — sincerely trying to comfort you and meaning well, but it’s damaging and insensitive at the same time. Another example: asking you to pray for their friend of a friend who has someone in their church with cancer, because they promised their friend who wants to create a prayer chain. We’re several people removed from the person with cancer, who is this dope who interrupts me for an idiotic prayer chain? Who takes these things seriously, why I don’t even know this person with cancer, why don’t I just pray everyone gets cured of cancer. A lot of other people I don’t know have cancer, what is so special about this one, darling? It’s depressing people are still that stupid.
It gets a lot more intrusive than that but that’s enough. Sincerity is not enough of an excuse for believing in magic and hell and salvation, even using it for loving and inclusive and comforting purposes. The trick here is, this pops up too often when it’s awkward to really open up the dialogue, it becomes too confrontational – you’re uncomfortable and they continue to be oblivious. If they already think atheists are jerks, and they probably do, it’s not going to help the image to admit you’re a cold bastard with no feelings so of course you don’t want in on any damned prayer chain. No matter what you say, that’s what they heard.
Mostly I wonder why so many people have permission to walk around crazy, although sincere, and use that crazy to blab to everyone else how insensitive I must be not to be more than glad to pray. I’m sincere too, that should count. (That prayer chain thing didn’t actually happen to me, but stuff like that happens.)
I’m not trying to ask anyone else to not fault them, I was just explaining why I don’t. Sincerity isn’t always sufficient enough for me, but in this case it is enough for me to just leave them in peace. I realize that they do a lot of things perceived as hateful and hurtful, but I just don’t see how reciprocating with more anger and hate is going to make the situation better.
I think your indignation with the WBC and religion in general is valid; I understand and probably share a lot of those feeling; however, I also understand that we’re all human beings and judging from our history, we’re prone to doing and saying hurtful/irrational/crazy/etc. things. So I’m kind of caught somewhere in the middle where I know I should be upset at the things they do, but at the same time can sympathize with why they are doing those things.
(And I’ve had the prayer chain thing happen to me before. I’m always straight up and let them know I don’t pray myself, but that I’ll try and pass it along to someone who does)
I’m aware you were referring to them being physically non-violent, but I never mentioned anything about them being violent anyway (though, as others have covered, violence doesn’t have to involve physicality). As I said, they have taken it upon themselves to be deliberately cruel to bereaved families AND they hope to make a buck out of it into the bargain. If you think they’re nice ‘other than that’, then there’s not a whole lot left, but regardless they still treat their own family members like dirt if they dare disagree with them. Phelps disowned some of his own children for ‘falling away’ by no longer agreeing that ‘god hates fags’.
Saying WBC are “nice other than the hatred” is like saying the KKK are nice other than the hatred. They are vicious bigots who will turn on their own for the sake of their hatred. These are not nice people.
It’s almost kind of nice to hear that some of his children didn’t incorporate these hateful attitudes, although I’d feel better if I knew how far away their own attitudes are from it. If Phelps disowned me, I would have to say something along the lines of, you can’t fire me, I QUIT!!
Phelps having any idea that he can disown his family for rejecting him first is ridiculous.
There’s a talk his son gave, I think it was at the Freedom from religion convention, where he talk about his way out of WBC and the abuse he and other family members have suffered. Google it, it’s a bit long but I think it well worth the time.
“but regardless they still treat their own family members like dirt if they dare disagree with them.”
You hit the nail on the head! That’s exactly why I do feel compassion for them! It’s almost like they are trapped in that family. I don’t think walking away from an abusive and dysfunctional relationship like the rest of the Phelpses have with Fred would be an easy thing to do, especially when it means never getting to see or communicate with your brothers, sisters, cousins, etc. ever again, and honestly, if faced with that decision, I don’t know what I would do. So it doesn’t feel right to me to be critical of the ones that stay because, in my opinion, that’s pretty much a no-win situation. I think that Fred Phelps is wholly responsible for that entire bad situation, but as for the rest of them, I just feel sorry that they have to choose between their family and escaping an abusive father/grandfather.
I feel sorry for them in some ways too, but that doesn’t make them nice, ordinary people. They are choosing to inflict pain and suffering on others. Whether they feel trapped or not is irrelevant, and I find it hard to believe that every one of them is just playing along to avoid the wrath of one old pastor.
Violence doesn’t have to be physical, dude.
Two words: Psychological. Abuse.
Testify sister!
well maybe they should do something which angers the wbc so much they start fighting.
To stop those monsters 1-2-3,
Here’s a fresh new way that’s trouble-free,
It’s got Paul Anka’s guarantee…
Guarantee void in Tennessee.
Just don’t look! Just don’t look!
Just don’t look! Just don’t look!
Just don’t look! Just don’t look!
Now I have an image in my head of Phelps holding a giant donut. :)
My Two cents.
Well since this is a comic book convention the obvious thing would be to do a faux protest right next to them with signs that look just like theirs that say stuff like “God Hates Mutants!” and “Muties Die God Laughs!” *insert random bible verse* and just play up the X-Men Mutant hatred portrayed in the Marvel Universe. I’m sure you could even get a few enthusiasts to argue with Phelps about whether or not Jesus was a mutant or if he was actually Wolverine’s father. Someone carrying a sign with a sign picture of Di Vinci’s “Last Supper” photoshopped to make everyone look like the X-Men would be great as long as Judas looks Magneto. Sounds like a good material for a Stan Lee, Dan Brown collaboration to me!
The other thing that could be done is some how draw attention to the fact the Fred Phelps is one of those few people that look and acts like a Cinematic representation of evil. He looks just like that evil preacher from Poltergeist II and he is an evil preacher. Granted this would be a little harder do to but easiest way to do it would be have a very short woman that looks like the actress Zelda Rubinstein walk up and down the street next to Phelps saying “Carol Anne don’t go into the light!”. Or possibly “Carol Anne don’t go into the ass!” making reference to Phelps well known Homophobia.
I like the anti-mutant idea! Show up as the “Friends of Humanity” and surround the WBC so you can’t even see them.
Actually start an elaborate religious ceremony involving Doctor Who or something right in front of them. I bet it would really annoy them.
The doctor? I am in!
I’m loving all these cool ideas………….
I’d carry signage similar to theirs saying something like “Fred Phelps has a Tiny PENIS”
I grew up about 30 minutes from WBC, so I’m pretty accustomed to dealing with them protesting EVERYTHING – my church, high school sports, local theater (including a Christmas pagent!). I would use their sense of humor to counter them – I like the Thor idea upthread. Maybe there could be a contest for the best costume/sign?
I guess saying someing funny about Phelps’ anatomy got my comment scrubbed
I was thinking about what I’d do if I met the WBC even before this thread. I think I’d shake the Fred Phelp’s hand. I may not agree with what he says(god hates fags, oddly, not one of those disagreements), but I’ll be damned if he’s not a hero for using the first amendment to it’s fullest. I don’t want the WBC to lose their lawsuits(Where free speech is concerned; disrupting things is another matter) because that would mean that the first amendment has lost.
And at the end of the day, all they’re using is words. Words not only protected by the first amendment, but also words that can’t actually do anything. It’s not like they’re killing every homosexual they see on the street in the name of god.
I agree with you that WBC’s right to protest, definitely a public event such as comic con (a private funeral may be considered a gray area in the balance between the rights of the family and these of WBC). However respecting their right to protest doesn’t mean we are required to respect their opinions and I think that a counter protest exercising our 1st amendment right to call an a*shole an a*shole is more then appropriate.
You could turn it into a game. Maybe a Flash Mob of other people protesting all kinds of stuff. and have a gameshow host come out like in Lets Make A Deal and ask people about objects they have with them.
I think it might be a good idea to get huge sheets, and nail them to large pieces of wood. And just use them like screens and surround the wbc protesters. When they are surrounded by cloth walls and no one can see them, problem solved.
They would just knock them down.
What’s worked in other venues is a second group of people wearing robes standing in front of the WBC with their arms outstretched, holding large blank signs.
But people would be holding the sheets. They probably would not do it if people held it because then the wbc can be sued for assault.
If you erect a barrier, it becomes censorship. In the US, it’s illegal to limit anyones free speech. I will defend the WBC’s right to free speech just as quickly as I will defend Christopher Hitchens. Blocking their view shouldn’t be tolerated. Mocking their view should be the goal. Or setting up charities for the numbers of hours they protest.
Is that true? No it’s not. If you can find an example of where it’s illegal for a person to censor another person, please do so, but I doubt it. I am thinking of a lot of examples where free speech is misunderstood as a right to speak wherever one wants however one wants, but anyone can tell them to leave, and if they don’t, the police get involved if it’s a private matter. The government is not allowed to abridge, but anyone else can.
I think the sheet-wrapping thing would be assault though. If it was just standing nearby with the sheet, I could see it might become assault just ’cause of the anger it might get physical.
Drive-by
Of course I don’t condone this, but it was the first thing that popped into my head.
Tbh a good thing about WBC existing is that they are likely one of the only organizations out there that unite all of us.
Two words: Superhero Sermon. Stan Lee must be a High Priest…. Deliver unto the heathen a fiery, brimstone sermon recounting the GLORIES and the WONDERS wrought by the almighty HEROES. (One must use the proper cadence in one’s speech, of course.)
‘Cause what the WBC is claiming we geeks do at cons like that is hilariously absurd. The only thing funnier is to *do* it, and be as punny as possible.