According to John Loftus at Debunking Christianity, Dr. Ken Pulliam recently suffered a fatal heart attack and died suddenly.
Dr. Pulliam maintained the blog Why I De-converted from Evangelical Christianity, and was a major contributor to the atheosphere. His lengthy series of posts on atonement was remarkable in it’s depth.
He will be missed dearly.
I’m still in shock over this. At first, I did not want to believe this. This has me VERY upset.
Mika’il,
I feel the very same way. I started every morning with coffee and Ken’s blog. There’s a podcast on Common Sense Atheism of Luke interviewing him. At the end, he says he enjoys his everyday life-family, work, etc. cause you never know when it could be your last day.
I’m gonna miss him a lot.
This was a real blow. It’s a little unsettling to visit his site now. It looks like it always has, as though nothing had happened. I think all of us who used to drop in there are grieving.
Dr. Pulliam’s death is indeed unexpected and tragic; his writings showed his intelligence, wide-reaching knowledge, and honest, open-minded approach — as well as his exemplary willingness to engage the discussion. He will indeed be missed.
One thing about this UF post *did* strike me, though: the “RIP” in the title. It’s interesting how ingrained theological concepts can be in everyday language… even for atheists or those who are uncertain about an “afterlife.” Still, those three letters immediately communicate what’s intended: the passing of a human being who holds a place of honor in our memories.
I think rest in peace is good. We know he isn’t being tortured somewhere. We know he isn’t being forced to eternally worship a tyrannical god. We know he isn’t cold, hot, hungry, thirsty, or tired. He feels no pain, pleasure, happiness or depression. He’s just…..dead. The same state we enter after sleeping for two or three hours, he is in forever. The only way he lives is through his ideas, which live on the internet, and in the minds of the people who he reached with his beliefs to him, and the minds changed by the people he reached transferring his ideas. His beliefs will continue on for many centuries, possibly longer, along with the beliefs of others, he is a part of the fiber that will usher in a new age of freedom from religion. I think that’s a lot stronger than any religious afterlife. It isn’t abstract, or physical. No pearly gates, no streets of gold, no virgins. Rest in Peace, Ken.
“We know he isn’t being tortured somewhere.”
How do you know?
“We know he isn’t cold, hot, hungry, thirsty, or tired. He feels no pain, pleasure, happiness or depression. He’s just…..dead. ”
How do you know?
Your faith must be powerful, indeed, to put your eternity in the hands of your personal views.
Psalm 14:1 — The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
Mark 1:15 — “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”.
May God be merciful!
~Yvonne
Oh look, another pitiless vulture. I’m really getting sick of Christians who use tragedy to push their wares.
Psalm 14:1 — The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
Too bad there isn’t a line in there that says “The monster says in his heart, funerals and memorials are great time to pimp my God.”
The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” The wise say it out loud.
Isaiah 5:21
Woe to the motherfuckers who base their entire lives on something that isn’t real-Daniel 6:9 (up your ass version)
Again John C quotes the bible when it suits its purposes. I wonder how long it will be until he tells us to ignore the bible.
Ah yes, Isaiah. Probably the most repulsive book in the entire Bible. The one where God boasts how he will personally kill men, women, and children in elaborate, sickening detail. The women shall be raped and the infants killed before the eyes of their parents. Entire countries shall be wiped out and the rivers run red with blood.
Forgive me if I don’t put much stock in any advice that book has to offer.
By the way, John…
Is. 5:21 (“Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!”) is part of the threats God issues. The threats I assume you will have us ignore, as you always want us to do whenever the Bible shows God in an unpleasant light.
You are shameless in your cherrypicking.
TRJ-
No sir, it’s just that after a quarter century I know Him and His true nature, that’s all. Its the duality (good & evil, light & dark, true & false) that fall, like scales before our eyes as we go ever deeper, ever higher in Him. Besides, He offers a Light by which you may (rightly) see/read/hear Him in truth but so far you have been content to see in your own (lesser, like my own dim, compared to His, as the moon is to the Sun) light.
I have always spoken the (shameless) truth in love to you TRJ, you deserve nothing less my friend, all the best.
Of course he’s shameless. His morality is based off of gawd and the buybull. No logic, no empathy, none of that shit. Honesty? Get the fuck out. gawd needs more people to worship him forever when they die! If it serves gawd’s purpose, then it is ALWAYS justified. gawd wants MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE people toys, and he wants your WHOLE LIFE so give it to him or he’ll send you to a place that burns forever…and he’ll replace your skin so that you can keep on feeling pain for all eternity! Don’t forget that gawd is good and perfect and holy and just…don’t you fucking ever forget that…he’ll fuck you up if you don’t. You must tell him how perfect he is always. Don’t tell him whatever shit you need until you have first PRAISED him.
Our father who art in heaven, HALLOWED be thy name. Thy KINGDOM COME, THY WILL BE DONE, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily braid(fill our heads with the buybull) and forgive us our trespasses(like thinking that women are attractive, or not worshiping you enough) as we have forgiven those who trespassed against us(because we aren’t allowed to fight back, we have to turn the other cheek). Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil(like people who disagree with us). For THINE IS THE KINGDUMMM, AND THE POWERRR, AND TEH GLORIES, FOR EVAR AND EVAR, AMEN.
I can’t wait till I die, when I’ll get to praise gawd forever! No need to eat or sleep, I’ll just spend 24 hours a day praising gawd! I’ll be a gawd-praising…a gawd praising…a god praising machine.
And people say that nihilists have depressing outlooks on life.
John. You forgot to capitalize “Truth”.
Still, all the best to you too.
Thanks TRJ, ha, you made my heart glad to see your comment when I returned home, I appreciate you.
Take care-
These are much more than personal views. I have read and personally debunked THOUSANDS of Christian arguments. I have no credentials; I’m just a junior in high school. That speaks oceans. All anyone needs to rip apart any religious teaching is a will, persistence, and some time.
Yvonne, there is an abundance of people who have fundamentally different views than you do who say I will go to hell. Your faith must be powerful, indeed, to YOUR life in the hands of your personal views. Allah will make you burn forever, and the God of certain denominations will make you burn forever, so you’re just as likely to go to hell as I am.
I would question your faith very hard. The faith that makes you disrespect the dead. The faith that undoubtedly consumes your life. There are many people online who can help you with this. Evid3nce did a series “Why I am no longer a Christian” which I think you should at least watch. Here is the link to it. Its long, but its in parts, so you can watch it over your lunch break, or over a few weeks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOmSYHzeoNA&feature=related
You provided scripture…how can I know that scripture is reliable? Because it is the word of God? How do I know it is the word of God, because the bible say it is? How can I know that God is real, and that his word is reliable? Because the bible says so? That’s called circular logic, and you’ll be forever trapped in your faith if you allow yourself to do it.
“I have read and personally debunked THOUSANDS of Christian arguments.”
Hey, the circular one only counts as one argument, no matter how many times or in how many differents ways is it written :P
The gospel is not in arguments its in the power of God. Power to free you from your sin, your love of sin. All of you will reach a point of blackness in your life. How do I know, because my God tells me so. And you can laugh and mock but you may be in it right now. A Black hole of despair. It is here you can cry out to Jesus and He will come if you humble yourself, Repent of your sin and He will come. Kid if you are in Jr High you can debunk all you want in your mind. The gospel is in power. Your going to get hit with a train wreck that all your pat answers wont help. Jesus will be there if you want him. you call us vultures because we don’t allow you to remain in your nihilist wishful thinking. Repent and believe the gospel. Tragedy is good time for you to be shocked awake to life.
“How do you know?”
Because in matters as important as this, it cannot be left up to faith.
“How do you know?”
Nincompoop, see the above.
“Your faith must be powerful……”
Nope no faith at all. Nobody has presented any evidence of either a torturous afterlife or a blissful one.
“Mark 1:15 — “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”.
They’ve been saying that for about 2000 years now this god thing of your’s isn’t much for punctuality.
Ken was a great, great man. An absolutely remarkably, truly stand up guy. He will be sorely missed by all of us. The world just got a little less brighter now that he’s gone.
He was an atheological wrecking machine. A formidable PhD-carrying destroyer of fables, myth and superstition. His contributions to secularism, freethought, skepticism, rationality and reason were and still are amazing and truly valuable to us all.
Rest in peace Ken.
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as a christian i too am sorry for this. i hope he rests in peace.
I believe the saddest part of this is Dr. Pulliam now has proof he was wrong. It saddens me he apostatized and remained that way.
Stay classy, Scott.
“It saddens me he apostatized and remained that way.”
I bet it doesn’t really.
Yeah, that really fucking blows, right? God, the omniscient, omnipotent heavenly father, who is a champion of justice and fairness, condemned this benevolent man to an eternity of being burned alive whilst having his flesh constantly replaced so that he can feel more pain, because he didn’t believe in God. It doesn’t matter what he did on earth, it doesn’t matter if he helped thousands or killed them, the only thing that matters is whether or not he believes in Jesus…because God sent his only son, Jesus, to die on a cross, as a vicarious punishment for all the things that mankind does. God didn’t bother to provide evidence for his existence. He never sent an angel, or a burning bush, or a talking donkey. No, God didn’t show any evidence. He’ll send his son to die on a cross, but he won’t prove his existence. Sounds lazy to me.
I’ve quite often heard emotional appeals when debating Christians. “Do you really want to believe that life is an accident, and has no purpose?” Fuck yes I do. Which one of these sounds better? Consider the following scenario:
You are trapped steel box, buried in the ground. There is a hatch on top, with a cheap padlock, and a key. All that has to be done to save you is to unlock the padlock, and pull open the hatch. You scream out loud for help, but, nobody comes. You scream for hours and hours, until your throat is sore, and you are sweating, hungry and thirsty. You sit down, knowing that you can’t keep your pace up. You let out a scream every few minutes. Then only a few times an hour…then only once an hour…then just a few times a day, until finally, you open your mouth and try with all your might, but nothing audible comes out. You are to weak to stand. You realize that you will die very soon…and you do just that, you die.
Which sounds better? That nobody was around, and it was just unfortunate, or that an omnipotent being stood outside the whole time, listening to your every scream, but doing nothing. That that being had a plan that required your death, but did not tell you why you were not being helped. Your God supposedly created the universe, and yet the only way he wants to carry out his plan is through the suffering of the people he supposedly loves?
Good news:There is no god. Ken is dead. Not in hell, not in heaven, he’s just dead. His brain is no longer receiving power because of his failed heart, and is no longer operating. He is sleeping…forever. Your sick, sadistic God cannot have him, not to torture forever, and not to force to worship forever.
Sounds like you’re preaching or writing some kind of text for faith.
Not exactly what that statement is supposed to mean; its clearly loaded, but I’m not sure with what.
Religion doesn’t hold a monopoly on morality, nor does it hold one on theses designed to present morality, beliefs, or views.
There was a time when I wanted to become a minister, and atheism is something I am passionate about so perhaps some of that bled through and made my writing like a sermon.
I still stand by my aforementioned writing; I consider the atheistic view of death to be superior in every way to religious views of death.
Um, that’s not the God of the bible. If you seek for Him with all your heart you will be found by Him. He resist the proud but gives grace to the humble. God does not cause us to suffer, our sin and the sin of others does. You will suffer in this world either way. The question is what will you suffer for, your sin and rebellion and the glorious kingdom? Purposeless suffering or suffering that brings redemption? Repent of your sin and cry out to Jesus. God does answer prayer, he will help, give strength and show you His reality. You are super angry, do you want peace, do you want life? That is the question because you can have it.
I meant sin and rebellion OR the glorious kingdom..sorry I am tired and should probably stop writing
Wow Scott, you really know how to be a Christian Douche! Congrats!
What if he was wrong? How tragic! :)
Never before has an emoticon been so revolting.
dam. i read that guys site all the time. =(
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I too read Ken’s blog each morning and am very sad to know that he is know longer with us. I will miss his blog when it stops being posted. I am so sad for his family and wish them all the best as they deal with the loss of a love one. My rant is the christians who do not show love at this time and it just reconfirms that the god they believe in is just a myth and makes no difference in their lives.
I wrote a respectful tribute to Dr Pulliam on my blog. I am a Christian, and Ken and I debated now and again but more often worked in harmony to confront the abuse of children by Christian Fundamentalist clergy. He prompted me to think, and he certainly helped me write better! I am stunned at this sad news. Ken’s death is a great loss. I invite comments to be posted in his memory, but I will remove anything disrespectful of anybody. It is intended to simply be a place to give a tribute to Ken Pulliam.
Goodbye to Ken Pulliam
We knew Ken when he was an ardent Christian and fellow student in Bible. I believe that the Lord took him so that he could not continue to dishonor the Holy One. My heart aches for his family. We are praying for them.
You think he was smote? How insecure is your god? If he doesn’t stand up to scrutiny, the efficient thing to do would be to appear – which he doesn’t do. What kind of perfect god does things so inefficiently? And then, the horrible, nasty thing to do would be to kill people because they talked about him in a way he didn’t like. You are a nasty person for even thinking that! You have bastardized logic to the utmost worst conclusions. You believe in an imperfect creation, who is actually an insecure piece of shlt. It certainly shows a lot for you to be proud of worshipping such a dick, and try to explain that is how love is supposed to work. You’re warped.
Or, he died from a heart attack, which isn’t exactly a miracle for a 50 year old man.
How about George Carlin? He dishonored the fuck out of the “holy one” for a lot longer than Ken, and a lot harder and yet he died at the ripe old age of 71. Pretty old if you consider his health habits(or lack thereof).
Also, I find it disturbing that you believe that God can kill people to shut them up, but he didn’t kill the 9/11 hijackers, Osama Bin Laden, Hitler, Stalin(who also banned religion) and people like them. Then again, the first four ten commandments are there to make God feel good, so I don’t guess that’s terribly out of character.
Every time you rise the question why didn’t got stop 9/11 or Stalin you get the generic Blah, blah, blah, free will, blah, blah, blah but as soon as an atheist die or diagnosed with a disease they will jump and claim their sky daddy has smote the heathen.
God works in mysterious, unfathomable ways, except of course when his followers can give him credit for something.
@trj
Having never been a Christian I can’t understand how anyone who studies the Bible can legitimately claim that their god is all loving when he often acts like a genocidal, vengeful, sociopath. How do you mentally equate the relationship between a parent and a child with the relationship that is often described between god and his creations. Is this what it means to have faith?
Are you familiar with the trope, “Because I’m the mommy and I said so, that’s why!”?
I have to give my own mother some credit for never, ever using that line. She always told me why I couldn’t do something, whether it was a good reason (it’s dangerous) or a bad reason (you’ll embarrass me). If we asked enough, she would pull out the passive-aggressive, “FINE! Do whatever the hell you want to do!” and then we couldn’t do it because that’s not the same as “Sure, go right ahead,” at least it gave some idea there’d be dire consequences.
I think some people’s idea of god is that his disciplinary (punishment) doesn’t need a good reason. He’s the authority figure and we’re the helpless, ignorant children. If we were atheists, we could do whatever the hell we wanted and there wouldn’t be any consequences (false, but often asserted). Even if we succeed on earth, there’s one final consequence we’re daring to ignore! I mean, at least in a family dynamic, you have evidence of parents and a reasonable idea what you do (whatever arbitrarily – or perhaps reasonably – displeases your parents) will have punishments. If you believe god is your father, and I think many people act as though it is as obvious as having biological parents, you want to stay on the right side of things.
It definitely is an abusive relationship not dissimilar from my own upbringing, but in the framework of there not being a god at all, it’s obviously arbitrary and not aimed at you as a result of insubordination toward an authority. Even in a secular framework, however, humility and some sense of powerlessness are not uncalled for. A lot of your own actions are within your control as well as some expected outcomes. A god-person would see that positive outcome as proof that what they’ve done pleased a god. But a lot of your own actions are within your control but cause bad outcomes, and a lot of other events are not within your control. I read recently (maybe here) that someone believed his daughter died in a car accident because he hadn’t prayed enough. When you think you are doing everything you can and bad things still happen, you are obviously being punished for some mistake you forgot you made, or some wish you didn’t make hard enough. The range of possible outcomes and the belief that someone outside yourself is causing them to communicate their authority by pleasure or displeasure, i.e. everything happens for a reason, you are going to imagine that god loves you, and that’s why he is trying so hard to control you to a narrow set of behaviors which glorify his existence, of which evidence is counted in the positive outcomes.
I.e., if I am secretly a murderer, but I am taking a class and I write a paper, god should cause the teacher to grade that an F for murdering. If I bring hot meals to the elderly and disabled instead of being a murderer, I should get an A on that paper, even if it’s the same paper. The quality of the paper and the teacher’s abilities to grade it fairly are not accounted for, but my grade may be seen as proof that god approves or disapproves of me as a person. If someone dies, it is assigned a reason. Someone was not praying hard enough, or god needed another angel, etc.; people rationalize god as perfect and people as sinners, everything that happens is a lesson or confirmation of his existence, and awesome powers to change grades or kill people suddenly, and we’re often minded to respect that power.
“I believe that the Lord took him so that he could not continue to dishonor the Holy One.”
I agree. That is exactly how I would expect the imaginary deity of a egotistical misogynistic barbarian people to behave. Kudos to you for showing the petty ignorant face of the thing you would worship as a god.
“I believe that the Lord took him so that he could not continue to dishonor the Holy One.”
If that were true it would have been Rhology who died.
Nice little explanation. And when God takes someone close to you? Oh, that’s completely different, right? That’s God being kind and taking them home and all that bullshit.
Then why does God take me? Of course eventually I will die, and someone eventually will say the same thing. Insulting and pathetic.
Once again, some so-called “Christians” drive by to whore for their imaginary sky-friend and spout biblebabble. It must be Tuesday.
I don’t exactly know what they’re after. It’s disrespectful, but do they think they’re warning us or threatening us, or attempting to demonstrate for us —- something? I mean, what is the result of someone dying? We grieve and remember, but when will one of these upbeat loving Christians bring forth that evidence of the whereabouts of Ken Pulliam’s eternal soul to really frighten us? It seems all they care about is being an asshoIe, and that is all they are accomplishing. They decorate their comments with the vague word “prayers” as if praying is necessarily an act of kindness. Suggesting someone was killed by a nasty god to send an example to the rest of us and then praying for his family (to find the bilious comment instructive) to absolve themselves of malice… how could their loving god ever let them make such a disgusting comment? Is that what passes for moral law in their imagination? Whatever “I” say is moral and kind and for your own good because “I” believe in god. You, godless ones, everything you say is foul, even “Have a Nice Day” because it lacks gratitude for the maker of the day!
Self-righteous pricks, god-given excuses. I pray that you awful-hearted Christians find your heads out of your asses one day; however, prayers don’t work. Try a crowbar and some lube.
I missed this the first time around because I’ve been ill. I am very, very glad that I did miss it. The anger would have been… Epic. Some Christians are filled with douche, and I will cite this thread as proof from now on.
To be fair, there are several Christians who have written nice things and simply paid their respects.
“Its depth”, dammit, not “it’s depth”