I was thinking it was time to stop mocking Harold Camping and his followers. Matthew Paul Turner has a very generous post up about the Camping followers who believe that the Rapture will happen on May 21st. He’s got a little sympathy:
For me to believe that those who suggest May 21 is THE END are crazy is to also believe that members of my childhood church (including me!) were crazy in 1987 when we believed beyond any doubt that Jesus was coming back in 1988.
And we weren’t crazy. We were misguided, misinformed, naive, and certainly a bit sheltered. But we weren’t crazy. We had our reasons for believing that Jesus was coming back in 1988. Our reasons were biblical. We were convinced that the doctrine that supported such claims was sound and good and 100% true.
I was about to say something snide. After all, I grew up as an Episcopalian and so I managed to avoid all that. God won’t destroy the earth, that would be rude! But then I remembered a brief fling I had with Nostradamus as a teen. Someone brought in a copy of The Man Who Saw Tomorrow to class once, and Orson Welles had me hooked. So, yeah, I been there.
But then I read an interview with Gunther von Harringa, President of Bible Ministries International, a group affiliated with Camping’s radio. The folks at American Jesus asked good questions (in bold):
Just for the sake of argument, if God does indeed choose to change his mind and delay Judgment Day, how would your group proceed? Is the Mayan date of December 21, 2012 a possible backup date in case May 21st doesn’t turn out to be the end of all things?
No, the Mayan calendar has nothing to do with the Bible. God will not change His mind because He Has given us the accurate date in order for genuine believers to warn their families, friends, and the world at large, as He commands in Eze. 33:7, So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me. There are also no other “back-up dates” because the Bible guarantees this with many proofs and much evidence…it WILL happen, and NOTHING can prevent it.
Once again, just for the sake of argument, if God does change His mind and delay His plans, then would you be willing to conduct a follow up interview with us, or if they do turn out as you have told everyone they will, could we go ahead and set up an interview in heaven?
Because of the utter devastation that will engulf the entire world an interview would be virtually impossible; moreover, by God’s mercy, I don’t plan on being here.
Absolutely no humility there. No, “well, this is our interpretation.” It’s beyond question.
What’s the result of this? Check out the story on NPR:
“Knowing the date of the end of the world changes all your future plans,” says 27-year-old Adrienne Martinez.
She thought she’d go to medical school, until she began tuning in to Family Radio. She and her husband, Joel, lived and worked in New York City. But a year ago, they decided they wanted to spend their remaining time on Earth with their infant daughter.
“My mentality was, why are we going to work for more money? It just seemed kind of greedy to me. And unnecessary,” she says.
And so, her husband adds, “God just made it possible — he opened doors. He allowed us to quit our jobs, and we just moved, and here we are.”
Now they are in Orlando, in a rented house, passing out tracts and reading the Bible. Their daughter is 2 years old, and their second child is due in June. Joel says they’re spending the last of their savings. They don’t see a need for one more dollar.
I pity the kids. I don’t know how to feel about the parents. But Camping, von Harringa and the rest deserve everything we can throw at them.
RE: “Their daughter is 2 years old, and their second child is due in June.”
I guess it’ll be born in heaven then?
Naaaah. It’ll be stuck in purgatory, because it was never baptized.
They’re evangelicals, who don’t believe in purgatory, and baptism doesn’t matter, it’s just symbolic. Their daughter is OK, because she’s under the “age of accountability”.
I stand on my position that abortionists are the ultimate martyrs, because they forsake their eternal salvation to save a lot of embryos which would have been otherwise damned for eternity just for undergoing the wrong flavor of rituals or ending up in the wrong denomination/sect.
As they die before having a brain, they won’t even have the chance of (God forbid!) becoming filthy Atheists.
I thought it was Limbo.
“Absolutely no humility there. No, ‘well, this is our interpretation.’ It’s beyond question.”
But you know they can’t be anything like as confident as they let on. Somewhere, way back in their psyches, underneath stacks of broken golf equipment and out-of-date Vogue magazines, they’re already working on damage control.
Why every time I read an interview with some religious folk I always hum the “trololo” song?
So, did these people take into account the various calendar adjustments over the years, too? Somehow, I doubt it.
http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=3358
I can’t see how a human-made dating system can possibly affect global events.
Didn’t this guy *swear* the world was going to end in 1994…?
I think you make an important point. These beliefs are not harmless. We can all laugh them off – but for the people caught up in this delusion, there are consequences. Not only will the whole world be laughing at them, but there are obviously financial and career and psychological problems ahead for these people.
What we can expect however, is that very few of these followers will shed their faith no matter what happens to them.
What worries me the most about this is that the host for their internet radio station won’t be able to handle the load and I won’t be able to listen to the reports not roll in. It’s going to be a very interesting (and likely very funny, barring any horrible incidents with pudding or Kool-Aid) broadcast.
Sadly, I can imagine that there are going to be some seriously depressed people out there that night. I only hope that they have non-believers around to help them. While I think the whole thing is ridiculous and quite worthy of mocking, I don’t wish anyone harm.
What struck me about that NPR story was the man who’s wife and children don’t believe. You’d think that sort of dissonance would make him question at least one of his beliefs (either the belief in his wife and children as wonderful people worthy of salvation or his belief that God is good).
I wonder if you could sue for lost wages or something when the apocalypse doesn’t happen? After all, they relied on Camping and Family Radio’s guarantee that the apocalypse would happen when they quit their job, gave up their job opportunities, and spent all of their savings.
She’s going to be pregnant for the Rapture? Someone didn’t read their Bible very well. Matthew 24:19 says, “And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!”
I hope someone is scheduling interviews with these folks on May 22. Those should be hilarious.
I see nothing hilarious. Because many people will laugh at them, their only choice will be to stay within their community to find some comfort at the very moment they are able to leave it and retrieve freedom.
I hope these people haven’t alienated all of their family and friends so much that there’s nobody on suicide watch for them. Really. Because you known that evil old fuck is going to break out the Kool Aid and rat-poison when nothing happens.
Really? How do you know that?
I mean, it’s not like that’s what he did last time he predicted the end of the world…
One of my friends posted on craigs list that he would care for any lost animals or left behind assetts. And is offering that if anyone would sign them over he would guarantee that God would show them favor. So far no free cars, but we’re crossing our fingers someone out there is fanatical enough to give into the ploy.
More seriously, it says in the bible (Jesus’ own words) “nobody knows the day or the hour in which the lord will return, only the Father.” …..So…..I’m confused on what would make them privy to knowledge that even Jesus didn’t/ doesn’t know??
These are the same people that know perfectly everything God wants, but explain away any inconsistency with “the Lord works in mysterious ways”…
or if they do turn out as you have told everyone they will, could we go ahead and set up an interview in heaven?
Har har. As if any journalists will get into Heaven.
C’mon! You know the folks at wingnutdaily consider themselves journalists and sure they are going to heaven. maybe they could schedule the interviews in heaven!
will BatBoy be available? I’ve always wanted to meet him.
No, he will be debating a highschool girl about the constitution.
I can also sympathize with the followers. I was raised in a Jehovah’s Witness family, and these people have had no doubt the end was going to come on or before specific dates. Of course the dates pass, and the leaders find a way to spin it. “It was gods way of getting the less faithful to leave the organization” was my favorite. And the true believers just eat it up and plan on the next date – putting off ever living in THIS world.
I find this sad, not just because these people live in needless fear up until the non-event and also subsequently with cognitive dissonance, but also because no one makes a permanent mockery of these sh*t disturbers afterwards. These people should be hounded in the press, in the blogs, their names broadcast to the universe until the day they die. I’m not suggesting that they should be hurt in any way, but they should not be able to get away with just a “Oops, sorry, I guess my calculation was wrong, it’ll be May 21, 2012.”
Oops. Should not be able to get away. Sorry.
ftfy
As bad as it may be, I can’t wait until May 21. These people deserve a good slap of reality right in the face, and May 22 will be it. I have no sympathy for people that decide to turn off their brains and become stupid, mindless automatons simply following whatever cult happens to reach them first. And that is exactly what’s going on when people forfeit their livelihood and the livelihood of their kids over an ancient volume of Harry Potter.
You don’t really think it’ll make a dent, do you? The people who believe this bull are so deeply entrenched that nothing short of a literal act of God would change their mind.
Most will find a way to go on and to still justify their beliefs. It’s happened many times before. Leon Festinger’s “A Theory of Cognitive Dissonance” was based on his study of Millerites, Jehovah’s Witnesses and others. see http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm
I’m just glad I’ll get to see how Smallville wraps up before the end. ::snerk::
Just wondering: when Jesus returns for his followers, how are they going to see him descend from the sky? If he only comes down in one location, only people within a few hundred yards will be able to see him, let alone the other side of the world! The possibilities are endless:
- a worldwide system of mirrors which will reflect the single image everywhere (but that wouldn’t work when it’s daylight on one side and nighttime on the other.)
- he makes or hires thousands of angels as “deputies” and makes them dress up like him and when they all come down everyone thinks he sees Jesus descending
- he buys everyone in the world solar-powered TVs or computers with streaming live video so he can broadcast it from a single location (again, a problem at night on the opposite side of the globe.
- Mass hypnosis of all born-again believer, so they all will hallucinate at the same time!
For this problem to become relevant, you have to realize that the world is larger than your sheltered village community.
Probably in EU we have less of that because the population density is so much higher.
Is it happening 12:00 a.m. eastern time or Jerusalem standard time? Maybe we have to wait till later in the day. lol
I’ve wondered the same thing. While I’m enjoying my planned It’s-not-the-Apocalypse lunch with friends on the 22nd, It’ll still be the 21st in the US.
Apparently god is considerate enough to have a rolling rapture happening at 6pm local time for each, so we can have TV reporting as the rapture make it’s way around the world, like they do on new year.
Fox News is going to be busy!
I have issues with mental illness, including anxiety and depression, and I believe that Camping is also trying to manipulate those that have those conditions. They’re much more ‘willing’ to worry at times about, well, anything. It even hits me slightly although I am an agnostic and don’t honestly think a damn thing will actually happen. I have plans damn it! Many religions try and use a persons anxiety against them to get them to follow and comply, and hes doing the same thing. I personally plan a big day on the 22.
Yes, that’s me. I know that nothing is going to happen on May 21st. Yet, there is this small part off my brain that’s going ‘What if this does happen?’
I was the kid in my sixth grade class, after watching a show on the Mayans, started plotting out where I’d be by the time the world would end based on the Mayan Calendar.
I’m guessing med school may not be her thing, if she’s not bright enough to think this through.
Intelligence and faith are not mutually exclusive, much as I’d like it to be that simple. I know an excellent medical doctor who’s about as fundie as it gets; there’s just an area of his life in which he’s flipped the critical thinking switch to “off”.
Some of my colleagues are very religious too, but I don’t see them advocating for specific end of the world dates either. I supposed there are always exceptions to the rule
No, there is that. I think most of us have seen enough people’s worlds end without having to invent an end date for everybody else’s world.
agreed
I am betting when the 22nd comes around, they’re going to turn into a suicide cult. It’s unfortunate, but they’ll probably end up taking their children with them.
Highly doubtful. Suicide cults are usually, if not always (?), physically secluded communities in which the members live together with some self-proclaimed messiah.
That isn’t the case here. It’s a bunch of separate persons and families who believe in this crap, and much as I’m sure they adore Harold Camping – or rather, what he has to say – he’s not their messiah or even their leader.
The most comforting consideration here is that the medical community and its patients have been spared another delusional clinician. It would be nice to think the system would lead her to critical thinking and evidence-based decisions, but you can’t count on it. As a faculty member at one of the nation’s leading medical schools confided to me “We’ll graduate them if they’re crazy, but not if they’re two points low on tests.”
someone around here told their boss they were quitting their job because of “the end”. The boss told them, don’t come back here on the 22nd.
“The world couldn’t end today, it’s already tomorrow in Australia” Charles Schulz.
Excellent! That is my birthday! Maybe I am Christ and I don’t get ‘activated’ until the 21st.
My first order of business is to convert all churches to something actually of use to people.
Starbucks?
so they are saying the world is going to end in 4 days?
The argument in this article is that the end of the world is going to happen on May 21. To start out with to prove this is a bad argument, the date that the end of the world is not mentioned. It does not say if the world is going to end within this month or next year on May 21, or the next year. Not being clear on even the date shows this is not a trusting argument. Another reason this is a bad argument is because there are no concrete facts and/or evidence to show that the end of the world is coming. Meaning if there is some calendar showing the prediction of the end of the world, etc. I personally have never heard of May 21 being the day that the world ends, the one date I have heard is December 21, and this I do not believe either. Another part of this article that weakens the argument that the world is going to end is interviewing a 27-year-old lady and her husband with one child and another child on the way. She says because the world is ending she gave up medical school; her and her husband quit their jobs, and moved away to live in a rented house. And they are now spending the last of their savings. If they are in fact saying the world is going to end in this month, why did the couple decide to conceive another child, if they knew the child would never see the world or be living in this world? This sounds like irrational thinking to me, which lessens the value of the argument that the world is going to end on May 21. Overall, the message of this argument is very wishy-washy and the things said in this article do not add up.
Me thinks that come May 22nd these people are going to come face-to-face with a raging case of Cognitive Dissonance. It’ll be interesting to hear what kind of circular reasoning they come up with to explain away the very real fact that they’re still here.
They will say, “I must have miscalculated” or “God has given us a reprieve for a year. Send me money.”
Here’s what I don’t get on this one. Most people – even mainstream believers – look at these people and think “crazy” or at very least “misguided.”
So using an ancient text to predict the end of the world is crazy. But using an ancient text to believe an all loving deity came to earth and had himself tortured to death for your benefit is sane?
Huh?
I have been trying to get these people to sign the houses, cars and bank accounts to me but so far no one has faith enough to do so.
This is probably the 8th end of the world I have seeen in my life.
BTW – Why does Camping’s website still take donations? They won’t be here to cash the check, right.
I heard the NPR story when it aired, and I recommend that you listen to it because you can’t get the full effect of the young couple’s story until you hear their voices. They are the voices of the brainwashed, i.e., soft, airy, and sounding vaguely stoned and/or lobotomized. It was really creepy.
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