The following guest post was submitted by Alex Abbott, who comments here under the handle of “Teleprompter.” He also blogs at The Electoral College Student.
Recently, while studying among friends at my college library, a friend’s pal mentioned how he’d live his life entirely differently “if he didn’t believe in God”. When I hear statements like this, I contemplate how I was raised as a Christian, but have become an atheist. I remember how it feels to be on both sides of the table.
When I hear people claim how they’d live their lives as atheists, fulfilling all their immediate desires, not thinking of the happiness of others, I’m dismayed.
I find it comical how people believe that atheists only live for the moment, embracing a chaotic world with no meaning or purpose. To an atheist, civilization’s possible because humans fought against the indifference of nature.
Rather than ignore the needs of others, most atheists acknowledge that practicing awareness and sympathy for others is actually the best way to improve their own lives, because it produces a more stable, caring world for everyone.
Shared morality
Most atheists believe that when people rise above their instincts, striving to live in harmony with each other, a better life is possible. Most religious people also affirm faiths which call people to rise above selfishness and follow a common moral heritage, for a better life.
Some religious people say humans are sinful, so human beings must work to overcome temptation. Some atheists say humans thoughtlessly follow their instincts, allowing them to mistreat others — so human beings must work to promote empathy and mutual respect. There’s a common morality, responding to common needs and problems.
Common values
I’m an atheist because I believe religious ideas have great value, not because I reject all religious ideas. I’m also an atheist because I still accept many of the values of my earlier religion.
Because I agree to love others, I accept that the devotion of members of other faiths is just as genuine as mine was, and cannot be chalked up to delusion or insincerity.
Because I agree to pursue truth – if God creates all truth – I accept similarities between Christian narratives and other religious traditions, and realize that how I approach the world is influenced by similar reasons which cause others to approach the world differently.
Because I agree to seek what’s right, I accept the existence of common moral demands between all great religions, pointing to moral demands higher than any creed.
An overlapping hope
However, I understand how religious people can encounter these same observations and reach different conclusions than I have. I also understand how extensive parts of religious tradition don’t require a black-and-white, literalist idea of truth.
This is another belief I share with my religious brothers and sisters. I understand why someone believes the message of Jesus or the Buddha, not because they know the factual accounts as literally true, but because they carry hope of spiritual truth within them. I also take a leap of faith, and I also carry hope of unseen truth within me.
I carry hope that people of different traditions will peacefully practice their faith, or lack of faith.
I carry hope that all people will recognize the fragile nature of life on this earth, and work together to protect it.
I carry hope that people of faith, or none at all, will pursue social justice – that there’s a moral calling to protect the needy and vulnerable, whether it’s because there’s only one, incomparably meaningful life — or because each person’s immensely valuable in God’s eyes.
I carry hope within me, that people who live after I do will appreciate obscure philosophy jokes, poetry, or the sage wisdom of streetlights before dusk.
I carry hope within me, that those who people will inherit a better world.
Although none of these hopes may become truths, I understand how I also believe and live through occasional acts of faith. As I live every day to help this faith come alive, I’ve found extraordinary meaning and purpose. While others go, but for the grace of God–I go, but for the grace of hope.
I am an atheist and I do this. I have no hope for a “better life in heaven” or fear that I will be “cast into the fiery furnace of hell.” Having seen so many friends die, I am trying to live today.
I do think that the world is chaotic. I don’t think that “everything happens for a reason”. Life is what I make it.
I see nothing wrong with thinking this way.
Trying to live today is all well and good. By chaos, I’m talking about the people who say, “I wouldn’t hesitate to rob people and do violence if I thought we lived in a godless world”. I am talking about moral chaos.
I don’t think that “everything happens for a reason”, either. I agree that “life is what I make it”…and I believe people should work together to make life less morally chaotic, that we as human beings should have an order to lives which enables all of us to fulfill our greatest human potential…and this is the of meaning and purpose I find as an atheist.
I may not have made any of that clear enough in my essay, so I hope that clarification is helpful.
The problem here isn’t that atheists don’t see an ultimate purpose (I don’t see one, either – so what?), but the problem is that non-atheists are too often hoodwinked into believing that you can’t even have your own meaning and purpose in a godless world, that life is somehow less worth living or less meaningful. I’m writing to declare that these statements are wrong – that an atheist can find every bit as much meaning and purpose as a believer.
Right Alex. Many of the believers do see atheists as “less than” and morally compromised and maybe even a bit evil. It is not a good feeling to be considered this way, and in a room full of Christians I often feel uncomfortably judged and disregarded.
I really wanted to be a Christian. I wanted to have that connection my friends had. I wanted that community of fellow believers. But studying the Bible opened my eyes to the incredible claims, the terrible crimes, the difficult contradictions. I fell further and further away. I do not understand how people can accept Biblical tenets.
Do you really want to know how Atheists are created…… Just expose a rational, working mind to religion.
Oops! I was referring to Alex Abbott’s line of text, “I find it comical how people believe that atheists only live for the moment, embracing a chaotic world with no meaning or purpose. “
“I’m an atheist because…..I agree to pursue truth”
…. This is exactly why I’m atheist. No more explanation needed. I contend (now) that if god were as plainly real as all other truth, then the pursuit is all the more laudable. And I need no more breathe it (god) into life, than I do a sunny day.
“religious atheist” -The term sends shudders down my spine.
I’d like to hear more about what immediate desires these kids would gratify, as atheists….in a dorm room, living on their parents’ dime. What exactly would they do? Cheat and steal?
“I believe religious ideas have great value,”
I don’t.
“when people rise above their instincts” Please, take some courses in biology. We owe everything to our instincts.
“To an atheist, civilization’s possible because humans fought against the indifference of nature. ”
Nope. We don’t anthropomorphize nature. Civilization arose because humans discovered, by trial and error, that certain practices allowed more of them to survive. I suggest the young man focus on that “fragile nature of life on Earth,” and forget about those empty concepts of spiritual truth, grace and sin. Yes, I’m being unreasonably harsh to a young person; sentimentality irritates me.
I apologize for the length of this response in advance, but I feel it is necessary to clarify again what I am saying here.
“religious atheist – the term sends shudders down my spine”
It’s not meant to do that. I’m saying atheism is as good as religion at things some religious people like to say religion has a monopoly in. The phrase “religious atheist” is deliberately awkward, but it’s awkward to make a point: there’s nothing inherently less “religious” about even atheism, because things religions claim to only do, all people can do just as well on their own.
“what immediate desires these kids would gratify”
It’s about the principle here. Is it repugnant to you that someone would cheat and steal and do other nasty things just because there’s no god looking at them? Is it repugnant to you that someone might have such little respect for the people around them that the observation of a god is the only thing that would restrain them?
“don’t believe religious ideas have great value”
I respect your right to that opinion, but I still disagree. Look at it this way: it’s easier to say religious ideas have great value as an atheist, because we judge them on a different standard – namely, not a religious one. So really, I’m arguing that atheism is a better way than religion to find the best parts of religion – a claim I believe most atheists would embrace.
“please, take some courses in biology. We owe everything to our instincts”
Yes, we owe everything…for both better, and for worse. Why don’t we just pattern ourselves after the violence and indifference of certain natural processes? Why do we have different standards for ourselves? Even Richard Dawkins say in The Selfish Gene that he doesn’t argue that people should necessary live by how things are in the natural world, but that the great quality of humanity is our ability to do better.
“we don’t anthromorphize nature. Civilization arose because humans discovered, by trial and error, that certain practices allowed more of them to survive”
Well, you don’t understand metaphor. I meant exactly what you yourself criticized me for not saying, and if you knew how to read a metaphor, you would’ve gotten that. Now please try harder to understand *what I’m saying* before you tell me to read biology or anything else that I already know – evidenced by the fact that I referenced The Selfish Gene in my comment (a famous work from biology!).
Also, trial and error is the practice of “fighting” against the indifference of nature. It’s the same thing: that’s why I used a metaphor. You use metaphors to talk about things that are equivalent. Please, pay more attention.
“forget about those empty concepts of spiritual truth, grace and sin”
There is something to be said for fighting – or should I not use that word now? too metaphorical? – against dictionary atheism, as PZ Myers has. I applaud him for that! This is part of why I have written this post…did I just happen to become an atheist, or were there certain things which drove me there? I’m explaining why I am an atheist, the way I can based on my experience. It’s my experience that some Christian concepts helped lead me to atheism – ironic perhaps, but entirely true for me, because it’s what happened in my life – and you know nothing about my experience, do you?
I know people who are entirely clear that all the supernatural elements and miracles in religion may very well be false, but they are still religious — why do you think that is? I don’t know for sure, but I think it’s because religions are on to something meaningful.
Atheism is true to me, but truth is not enough – you can’t only live for truth. You need “sentimentality”, too. The atheist/skeptical movement will go a lot further if people begin to understand this idea.
And what do I mean by “sentimentality”? Nothing religious, supernatural, or dogmatic – merely the wonder about our Universe mentioned by Carl Sagan, or the amazement that out of trillions of sperm and eggs, we were the precise genetic combination which came to exist and experience consciousness. That is valuable! That is what makes people live! And it is like truth, it is a kind of truth in itself – but it is not fully an empirical truth.
You can’t scientifically tell me that it’s better to wonder about the Universe. But I will do it anyway…and that is a kind of faith. A kind of faith that an atheist can have…and perhaps, a faith that an atheist should have, if he or she so chooses. Faith in what you know to be false is something I avoid, but faith in what you can never say is true or false – but very much hope to be true? That kind of faith is necessary to live, in my opinion – and can lead to a more vibrant atheism.
It’s not just fluff or superficiality – it’s the underpinning of our entire humanity as individual human beings – that wonder about things, that curiosity and hope that moves each of us to live our lives to the fullest. I embrace that as an atheist every day – and it’s just as good, if not better, than spiritual truth, grace, or sin! That is my point – that an atheist’s wonder is just as good as any spiritual truth!
Well, “religion” has very specific connotations that do not fit most atheists at all. Specifically, when a theist or agnostic tells an atheist he is “just as religious as a Christian” (or something to that effect), she usually means he has faith in specific beliefs.
I wouldn’t disagree with that specifically, but this issue really comes down to the question of whether any specifically “religious” ideas have any value in the first place. Most positive effects of religion seem to arise from religious groups co-opting secular morals and ideas for their own purposes.
I can’t really agree with you there either. People aren’t “sentimental,” as you put it, because they have faith that doing so will make their life better; they are sentimental primarily for two reasons. First, because it is a basic mammalian instinct, and second, because they realize from their own experience that they and others prefer to be that way. And were this not the case, we would behave differently. So in that sense it is entirely empirical.
Ah, youth. My goodness, you’re full of yourself. OK, ” fighting the indifference of nature” is a metaphor for people doing stuff for themselves and each other so they live longer and have more children that survive. Trial and error is not “fighting,” even metaphorically, and your phrase is swoony and Romantic (in the 19th century literary sense.) I can’t help feeling your brand of prose would be better for rallying the Communards at the barricades than trying to whip atheists into a glassy-eyed state of …whatever it is you want us to do. Are you sure you’re not a Baha’i?
“I know people who are entirely clear that all the supernatural elements and miracles in religion may very well be false, but they are still religious — why do you think that is? ”
I think it’s because they are afraid they will be ostracized if they give up religion. They may lose an large part of their identity. Plus, some religious practices make humans brains release happy chemicals.
I don’t see any reason to fight against the dictionary definition of atheism. It’s just fine as it is. Sorry, but you don’t get to redefine sentimentality. Sentimentality is cheap and trite. The kind of awe Sagan was talking about is not.
If you name a “religious idea that has great value,” I’ll bet that that idea is not originally a religious value.
Just relax, grow up a bit, and accept that there are a lot of us “mere materialists” out here, quite happily raising families, contributing to the common good, and even hoping for achievable goals. There’s nothing to be gained in arguing about philosophy with people who have written off philosophy as a waste of time.
“the sage wisdom of streetlights before dusk. ” I’m going to pretend I never read that.
I am so with you on that count! Religious atheist is like a sunny night!
Please tell me you’re referring to sentimentality in this particular context. If not, that’s very insensitive to people who are naturally more sentimental, like I am.
Your conflation of religion and “religious experiences” confuses me….
“I know people who are entirely clear that all the supernatural elements and miracles in religion may very well be false, but they are still religious — why do you think that is? I don’t know for sure, but I think it’s because religions are on to something meaningful.”
Can you expand on this thought?
Thanks for the beautifully written blog post. I couldn’t agree more with your writing at this stage in the evolution of my thinking. I think of myself as an Agnostic that lives according to the principles contained in the Bible.
This is such a common thinking from fundies. whenever I hear BS like this, I just say to them ” So that Bible is the only thing that kept you from being a homosexual pedophile cannibal rapist that steals from the poor and pushes old ladies down the stairs just for kicks? You’d better keep reading that book bacause otherwise you will turn into such a monster in every sense of the word”.
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Just a quick point but one which I think needs to be stated. You made two statements:
“… most atheists acknowledge that practicing awareness and sympathy for others is actually the best way to improve their own lives, …”
“Most atheists believe that when people rise above their instincts, striving to live in harmony with each other, a better life is possible.”
I’m just not sure that either of those are true. They maybe be in a country where being an atheist is based more on actually thinking about religion. In countries where this is not true I’m just not sure that many people who are atheists, although they probably don’t even think as such, would have even though about such questions. The UK is a good example of that.
Interesting point. In the U.S., it’s much harder to be an atheist and not be constantly reminded that you are not like most other people. In the U.K. and other parts of Europe were religion has faded quite a bit more, people probably don’t reflect as much on their atheism.
In the UK if you think about why you an atheist then you’re not like other most people; if you are an atheist, even if you don’t think of yourself as an atheist, then are like a lot of other people. As a slight aside, my mother falls into the latter category as should would describe herself as a Christian yet doesn’t believe in god or to put it in her own words “she cant’ be doing with all that religious nonsense”*
I can imagine it’s somewhat difficult to imagine a culture when being an atheist is ‘no big deal’ when you come from a culture when religion forms such an integral part of everyday life. As a hooray for me, I live is the least religious place in England!
*If you’re reading this John C and you feel like posting a Christianity isn’t a religion post I’ll be forced to get Custy and Ty to hunt you down and give you a dead leg and a chinese burn.
That was for Ursa …
I’m an American. Really, there needs to be an ‘I’m American’ disclaimer on every post describing how it is to be an atheist in America, because I have read hundreds of those posts, and every time…someone from the UK or somewhere else chimes in about how hard it is to believe things are like that, and somehow the message never seems to get through. I say this not to criticize you, but to observe a common trend.
You will never understand just how thoroughly a society can be soaked in religion until you live in the United States. Atheists have to raise our voices here, or we won’t be heard – period. Atheism isn’t a default belief, and in most areas of the country, it’s regarded as a suspicious belief. It’s just not the same as the UK…at all. I didn’t even know anyone who was atheist or really what it meant to be an atheist until I was at least 14 or 15…it is not easy to become an atheist in the US without putting a lot of thought into the decision, especially if you’re a vocal one.
Well, firstly I don’t think America is the only country ‘soaked in religion’ but it does seem to stand out compared to other Western countries. Secondly I think the argument of misunderstanding cuts both ways, so you will also find it difficult to see how you can just be an atheist without thinking what this means. A good example is that whereas you had never met or thought about what it meant to be an atheist until 14 or 15; I’d met many, many atheists by then but I don’t remember really thinking about what that meant, or even describing myself as an atheist, until probably my mid to late twenties.
Lastly I think I mentioned it as I disagree with the fight against ‘dictionary atheism’ – if you live in a environment where by default you are probably an atheist then what cores values are there to rally around?
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I get you. Religion seems to limit the human experience by very well placed stop signs and closures in order to insure original thought is avoided by the human seeking connection to something greater, bigger than themselves. The whole “life is the ultimate game where your soul is to be won or lost” never jived for me. I went repeatedly back to organized religion under the misguided idea that I would finally be good enough for me to get the peace out of church and faith that others did. Religion failed me. I was devastated over and over when I just couldn’t get a connection I could feel and touch. It nearly killed me. It wasn’t until I ended up in Narcotics Anonymous where the emphasis is on finding a power greater than myself before I had any connection to anything at all. My power greater than me is simply energy. The energy I put it out with my words, actions or thoughts determine my experience. Ironically it is a basic thread through all the major religions of the world that- what I put into the world, I in turn get back from the world. The rest of the magic thinking, symbols, superstitions and “unicornia” just fills the faithful with unnecessary fears. It is the oldest parlor trick in the book to be able to exploit people who are filled with fear to get them to do what you want them to. I honestly believe that there was a creative intention behind my being put on the planet. It wasn’t to make stupid amounts of money or to dazzle millions with my brilliance. At the end of this existence, I hope I put more good, more unconditional love and understanding in the world than I took. I don’t split hairs on whether I am agnostic or atheist any longer. I don’t need a word to define my connection. It’s the world that tells me I need to pre-identify myself and I don’t. If anything I am a Momentarian. I get you, and I enjoyed very much what you shared regarding your experience.
Clinton R. Gandy
I think you are unintentionally doing a disservice to atheism and atheists by confounding our belief that the God myth is unbelievable, with the use of all these religious-sounding words that you splatter throughout your writing, especially “God.” I think you mean well, but I would never want you on my side in a debate between science and religion or atheism and religion or any other subject where clear use of semantics is the key to understanding. Good try; but no thanks.