Free speech and religious (in)tolerance (again) (continued)

A couple of weeks ago I wrote a post about some guys who want homosexuality to carry the death penalty in the UK.

Well, today three of them were convicted of hate crimes.

On balance, I think that this is a good thing. They put leaflets through peoples’ (including gay peoples’) letterboxes entitled Turn Or Burn and Death Penalty?, which said that homosexuals should be stoned or burned to death and that capital punishment is the “only way to rid society of homosexuality”. To me, that’s a long step over the free speech line and a short hop from incitement, via threatening behavior.

I’ll update this when the men are sentenced. In the meantime, it’s over to you again UFers: Should I abhor what these men say but fight for their right to say it? Or should I hope to see them jailed?

Creationism barred from UK science classes

One of the major concerns secularists and atheists have with the UK’s program of free schools has been that faith-based schools have effectively been free to teach whatever they want as science – Including Creationism and Intelligent Design. But not anymore.

From the Guardian website:

“Leading scientists and naturalists, including Professor Richard Dawkins and Sir David Attenborough, are claiming a victory over the creationist movement after the government ratified measures that will bar anti-evolution groups from teaching creationism in science classes.”

The measure is not a complete ban, but it confirms that UKgov will not fund any free school that teaches any theory of origin except Darwinian evolution in science classrooms.

“Several creationist groups have expressed an interest in opening schools in towns and cities across England, including Bedford, Barnsley, Sheffield and Nottingham. Critics say they seek to promote creationism, or the doctrine of “intelligent design”, as a scientific theory rather than as a myth or metaphor.”

Well, if they want to do that now then they need to pay for it themselves.

Free speech and religious (in)tolerance (again)

News from Blighty today that a group of Muslim men are on trial for hate crime after handing out leaflets calling for homosexuals to be hanged.

Left to right, Ihjaz Ali, Mehboob Hussain, Umar Javed, Razwan Javed and Kabir Ahmed.

I’m sure I know how most Americans would feel about this, whether they agree with the homophobic message or not – But speaking for myself, I’m torn.

On the one hand, this is certainly a form of censorship. On the other hand, it’s censoring a group of extreme bigots who are trying to promote hatred to the point of actual murder.

At the moment I’m leaning towards this prosecution being a good thing – This is not a thought-crime, it’s attempted incitement. They actively promoted murdering innocent people. That’s the point where I think they lost their right to free expression. That said, I’m still open to persuasion.

Unfortunately, extremists like this will also raise questions about why Britain is so accepting of Muslim migrants (albeit these men seem to be second-generation, born British) who have no intention of adapting to Western values. I’ve argued many times that there is no such thing as an indigenous Brit, and that we are a country made up of migrants and the descendants of migrants. I’ve also said many times that there’s real strength in diversity. But here I’m forced to wonder if there is not such a thing as a British culture and British values, and if this kind of diversity really brings strength, or if it only brings division. Of course, it is to be hoped that these men are a minority within a minority, and that their time will soon pass. We shall see.

For now, I’ll throw this open to the floor: Where do you fall in this discussion, and what’s your reasoning?

Billy Connolly on religion

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Scottish national treasure that is Billy Connolly – Most definitely NOT SAFE FOR WORK!

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Jesus Camp

Here are the edited highlights:

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I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.