Homosexuality and son-father estrangement

After posting the review of Bieber, I ran across a link to the following excerpt of a book by Michael Quinn which raises strong doubts about how poor father-son relationships could cause homosexuality.

He notes that fathers and sons in our culture have historically had “issues.”

For sixty years, various studies have demonstrated that a significant percentage, perhaps a majority, of American males have always felt estranged from the fathers who raised them. As early as 1928, Meyer F. Nimkoff found that 60 percent of the 1,336 males he studied (average age twenty-two) did not feel close enough to their fathers to confide in them, and the father-son relationship was distant in other significant ways. He concluded: “If sons withhold trust from their fathers, it appears they deny his leadership and limit association with him, also.”[3] Researchers have also noted that one-third to one-half of American teenage boys and adult men regard their fathers as “distant,” unaccepting, “cold or indifferent.” The psychiatrist Irving Bieber found that 37 percent of the heterosexual males he studied even said they “hated” their fathers, which was paralleled by a study that 21 percent of male heterosexuals at the University of Utah disliked their fathers.

As indirect evidence of this widespread father-son emotional dysfunction, studies of thousands of American adolescents since the 1930s have shown that only 5-22 percent of the young men “preferred” their fathers. In contrast, 34-76 percent of young men listed their mother as the preferred parent, even though the surveys also allowed sons to indicate equal preference or no preference. These statistics apply to young men in families without divorce. In addition, 82 percent of males in a 1978 study felt alienated from their fathers, while a 1985 study reported that only 8 percent of 500 male adolescents felt “loved” by their fathers.

Thus, claiming father-son emotional distance as the explanation for male homosexuality is similar to claiming that right-handedness causes homosexuality merely because most homosexuals are right-handed. The equation “abdicating fathers, homosexual sons” is a theory based on isolating homosexual experiences from human experiences generally. Typically, authors whose “reparative therapy of male homosexuality depends on “a failed relationship to father” do not acknowledge such well-known studies of father-son “failure” among American males generally. As the psychiatrist Richard Green, whose own research was originally based on the assumption of parental causation, has observed: “A gnawing question in these studies is what percent of heterosexuals answer all items [concerning father-son relationships] in the ‘homosexual direction’ and what percent of homosexuals answer all items in the ‘heterosexual direction’.” Because of such inconsistencies, Green returned to genetic or other biological determinants for homosexuality.

Quinn proposes that a son who is different in the gender sense might actually pull away from dad and not the other way around.

Another fallacy involves attaching great significance to the finding of many studies that homosexual men are “more likely” to describe their fathers as “distant, hostile, or rejecting” than heterosexual sons are. Such a pattern is unsurprising in a culture that has negative judgments about homosexuality. In other words, since both heterosexual and homosexual American males report unsatisfactory relationships with their fathers, the higher incidence of strain between homosexual sons and their fathers is more likely a result of the sons’ “homosexual tendencies” rather than the cause

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  • Michael Bussee

    I completely agree with Quinn that “since both heterosexual and homosexual American males report unsatisfactory relationships with their fathers, the higher incidence of strain between homosexual sons and their fathers is more likely a result of the sons’ “homosexual tendencies” rather than the cause.”

    Amen to that! It is all too easy to start with the assumption that a gay man must have had a troubled relationship with his Dad and that caused his homosexuality. All you have to do then is hunt backwards for the trouble. You will find it.

    Trouble is, who hasn’t had some tension in their relaionship with their father? Who can’t find something wrong with the ways things went at times? It is a huge leap, and a logical fallacy, to conclude that the “trouble” must have caused the gayness, when it very well could be the other way around.

  • Warren

    Timothy – Yes, and no one was gay (that we know of).

    Fathers are important for sure, but the actual evidence relating father issues with same-sex attraction is weak, IMO.

  • http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com Timothy Kincaid

    Wasn’t the premise of 1955′s Rebel Without a Cause that society was unraveling because of the distance between children and their parents, particularly fathers and sons?

  • Drowssap

    Even Narth says that most boys with absent fathers end up straight. However doesn’t their model predict that among boys who don’t become gay we should still see a lot more bisexuals? The more distance, the more bisexuality.

    By Comparison:

    Men who play college football have more arthritis by the age of 50. However even the men who don’t get arthritis have more aches and pains than students from the Chess club. Arthritis is the extreme edge of symptoms, but aches and pains are common.

    Why don’t we see noticably more bisexuality among men with distant fathers? If the Narth concept was right some men should become gay but an even larger group should become bisexual.

  • Warren

    Michael – the hunting backward for trouble comment reminds me of Julie Harren’s homosexuality 101 where she reports a mother-daughter break in infancy could cause lesbianism. This leads to people who look for historical events to explain things. I recall being at an ex-gay conference hearing a woman’s complaint that she was born C-section and thus did not get to bond with mom in the hospital. Her lesbianism resulted from this lack of bonding.

    You know, my mom was kind of distant. Maybe that’s why I think ladies (well, for the last 30 plus years, one special lady) are fine.

  • Ralph

    I agree that relationship problems between father and son may or may not be the only cause of homosexuality. I’m sure that it isn’t any one thing, but a mix of issues. A case can be made for sons who are beaten and abused by their fathers and most of them grow up heterosexual (perhaps with some problems though). However, we are not all alike and not clones of one another. Every one of us experiences things differently and maybe, just maybe those who turn out with homosexual or bisexual issues, may experience things and probably did, differently than those who are heterosexual as adults. So by this reasonsing, those who are hanging their hat only on one issue like dysfunction with mom or dad or both, that a son will be homosexual I think may be missing many other factors.

  • Mary

    I’m not sure about any of the theories. With the way one of my siblings spoke of his father – that sibling should be gay. Except that sibling does not have any of the talents and gifts of many gay men. He simply did not like his father.

  • Michael Bussee

    Warren: It’s all a classic case of post hoc, ergo propter hoc — and it seems that NARTH lots of other reparative therapy types did not have to take a course on logic or research design. Didn’t they have to go to college, take exams or get a degree? Weren’t they taught that “correlation does not equal causation”?

    From wiwpedia: “Post hoc is a particularly tempting error because temporal sequence appears to be integral to causality. The fallacy lies in coming to a conclusion based solely on the order of events, rather than taking into account other factors that might rule out the connection. Most familiarly, many superstitious beliefs and magical thinking arise from this fallacy.”

  • Drowssap

    The most interesting part to me isn’t the “distant fathers” hypothesis itself. No doubt about it, this one is bust. The interesting part is why do smart people still believe in it? Why is there an organization like NARTH devoted to this concept?

    Why doesn’t NARTH reinvent itself along the lines of the latest research? They are going the way of the Dinosaurs.

    Is Narth a bad organization with good people?

    Is Narth a good organization, with good people with the completely wrong idea?

    Is Narth a bad organization with bad people?

    I don’t get it. That place needs reform.

  • Mary

    There are matters where the correaltion is so high – time and time again- that this is why many people are saying that the issue is both biological and environemental.

    Keep in mind. That my sibling came from the same home I came from and I turned to gay relationships at on time. Sooo…..

  • Lynn David

    I guess being sick these last 10 months took me off the posting leaderboard… but I am happy to see some sanity come about concerning gay men and their fathers.

  • Drowssap

    Lynn David!!!!

    What happened to you? Funny, I thought about you the other day while I was reading these boards. I was thinkin’ “I wonder what happened to that guy.”

  • John Weaver

    Warren, I don’t want to go off topic, but what do you think about the recent controversies surrounding Mercy Ministries in Australia, concerning both the GLBT community and the mentally ill. I realize, of course, that most other ex-gay ministries are not nearly that extreme, but I just would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

  • Lynn David

    Drowssap…. I had a leg wound that wouldn’t heal, then it apparently got infected by MRSA and that ate into a vein which bled out to the tune of about 10 pints of blood. All this while I was driving across town, I noticed the blood sloshing around in the footwell of my pickup and then drove to the ER. Made the mistake of thinking I could park normally instead of by the ER patient entrance (I wasn’t in any kind of critical condition, was I??), but I called the ER and told them I was outside. But I collapsed broke my wrist, ended up with my chronic sciatica that couldn’t be stopped because of the broken wrist which couldn’t be fixed because I was unstable from blood loss. So the sciatica killed the muscle tone in my right leg. Almost home by New Years but MRSA came back, got cysts lanced, ended up in a nursing home and then got C-diff which nearly killed me….. but I’m much better now…. I so hope.

  • Drowssap

    Lynn David

    Holy Mother of Zeus!!!!! I’m sayin’ a prayer for you right now.

    Well I guess the big news over the last 10 months has been two studies from Sweden.

    Study #1

    Society’s attitudes have little impact on choice of sexual partner

    Cliff notes: The publics attitude about homosexuality doesn’t seem to be a strong influencer of SSA or OSA. “Instead, genetic factors and the individual’s unique biological and social environments play the biggest role.”

    Study #2

    Gay men and straight women have similar brains, study says

    Cliff notes: Gay men appear to have more female type brain wiring than straight men, even in areas that have nothing to do with sexual orientation. The scientists don’t believe this has anything to do with socialization or learning… or genetics. This was a big one.

  • Drowssap

    Lynn David

    Oh yeah and so far Narth has no comment on these studies.

  • Nick R

    Drowssap ~ Aug 3, 2008 at 6:30 pm

    118586

    The scientists don’t believe this has anything to do with socialization or learning… or genetics.

    From the link you provided:

    Savic said she thought the brain differences originated in the womb or infancy, probably as a result of genetic or hormonal factors.

  • Drowssap

    Nick R

    You’re right according to that story Savic does say that.

    However I have the actual research study and her published conclusion is different.

    As to the genetic factors, the current view is that they may play a role in male homosexuality, but they seem to be insignificant for female homosexuality. Genetic factors, therefore, appear less probable as the major common denominator for all group differences observed here.

    The next paragraph goes on in more detail about how hormones. For whatever reason Savic is a lot more interested in a hormonal explanation.

    Mechanisms behind homosexuality are often discussed in terms

    of an under-exposure to prenatal androgens in HoM and overexposure

    in HoW (56). In animal experiments manipulation of

    testosterone has been shown to alter development of the androgen

    receptor neurons by influencing anatomical connections and patterns

    of programmed cell death (57). Interestingly, male rhesus

    monkeys are found to have more androgen receptors in the right

    hemisphere, whereas the distribution is symmetrical in females (58).

    In rats, male cerebral asymmetry is established, in part, by early

    androgen exposure, because castration at birth blocks the normal

    rightward brain asymmetry. The symmetry in females, on the other

    hand, can be reversed to the male pattern by neonatal ovariectomy

    (59). To what extent these data are relevant for humans remains to

    be clarified.

    The present study does not allow narrowing of potential explanations,

    which are probably multifactorial, including interplay between

    pre- and postnatal testosterone and estrogen, the androgen

    and estrogen receptors, and the testosterone-degrading enzyme

    aromatase. It nevertheless contributes to the ongoing discussion

    about sexual orientation by showing that homosexual men and

    women differed from the same-sex controls and showed features of

    the opposite sex in two mutually independent cerebral variables,

    which, in contrast to those studied previously, were not related to

    sexual attraction. The observations cannot be easily attributed to

    perception or behavior. Whether they may relate to processes laid

    down during the fetal or postnatal development is an open question.

    These observations motivate more extensive investigations of larger

    study groups and prompt for a better understanding of the neurobiology

    of homosexuality.

  • Drowssap

    Gaaah…. this one is formatted better.

    Mechanisms behind homosexuality are often discussed in terms of an under-exposure to prenatal androgens in HoM and overexposure in HoW (56). In animal experiments manipulation of testosterone has been shown to alter development of the androgen receptor neurons by influencing anatomical connections and patterns of programmed cell death (57). Interestingly, male rhesus monkeys are found to have more androgen receptors in the right hemisphere, whereas the distribution is symmetrical in females (58). In rats, male cerebral asymmetry is established, in part, by early androgen exposure, because castration at birth blocks the normal rightward brain asymmetry. The symmetry in females, on the other hand, can be reversed to the male pattern by neonatal ovariectomy (59). To what extent these data are relevant for humans remains to be clarified.

    The present study does not allow narrowing of potential explanations, which are probably multifactorial, including interplay between pre- and postnatal testosterone and estrogen, the androgen and estrogen receptors, and the testosterone-degrading enzyme aromatase. It nevertheless contributes to the ongoing discussion about sexual orientation by showing that homosexual men and women differed from the same-sex controls and showed features of the opposite sex in two mutually independent cerebral variables, which, in contrast to those studied previously, were not related to sexual attraction. The observations cannot be easily attributed to perception or behavior. Whether they may relate to processes laid down during the fetal or postnatal development is an open question. These observations motivate more extensive investigations of larger study groups and prompt for a better understanding of the neurobiology of homosexuality.

  • http://mikeensley.vox.com Mike

    Warren, what terribly sad but not surprising statistics. I would have to say my own life reflects the “pulling away” coming more from my side than dad’s…

    Anyways, thanks for sharing.

  • Lynn David

    Thanks Drowssap…..

    I heard about those Swedish studies while I was incarcerated. Had a number of the family as caregivers and we discussed those studies when they came out – but mostly other things. I think any gay man or lesbian with a grounding in the sciences undestands innately that gays and lesbians come about their shared same-sex orientations via differing modes. Savic seems to be all about hormones for both and I agree it might be that primarily for lesbians. But Savic doesn’t understand what controls those hormones in men which is likely genetics – but not genes – as I have always said. That genetics being gene expression. Thanks for the links on the Swedish articles, I’ll have to add them to my voluminous collection of biological controls on homosexuality.

  • Eddy

    While I agree that a child can and will internalize messages they receive from the dad, I have real problems with labels such as ‘bad father’. Can’t a good father make a few regrettable mistakes? Isn’t it possible to present a good father with a challenge that he’s not equal to? LOL. I wish the study was about the potential impact of specific types or instances of bad fathering.

  • Ann

    Isn’t it possible to be a good father and yet not have a bonding take place? If so, can this leave a void in a son’s or daughter’s life and what are the implications of that?

  • Drowssap

    Lynn David

    You might like this one too.

    Males and female animals behave differently but scientists haven’t been able to figure out why because their brains are so similar. These guys think they figured it out. Brains contain an instruction set for both male and female instincts. One is turned off, the other is turned on. When I read that I was blown away. In a general sense this might explain why people are straight, gay, transgendered, etc.

    When Minnie Turns Mickey

    Same basic phenomenon discovered in flies

    Flies get ‘mind-control sex swap’

  • http://www.wthrockmorton.com Warren

    Ann – The failure to bond can of course occur for reasons other than the fathering is deficient. However, the reparative theory calls for the father to woo the boy away from the mother. This is viewed as universal. Dr. Nicolosi has said recently that even if there are temperamental factors at work, it still requires the classic triad to bring out homosexuality.

    Even if this bonding does not occur, it does not implicate it as a cause of same-sex attraction. The real unanswered question by any theory involving parental relationships is how these relationships turn the brain from an opposite sex attracted brain to a same-sex attracted brain.

    If we could get them to address this with more than just “the brain is plastic,” we might have something we could test.

  • Ann

    Dr. Throckmorton,

    Thank you for your answer – I was really asking a general question about the implications of non- bonding with a father figure for either gender rather than the reparative theory for same gender attracted males. For instance, I have heard that the rate for unwed young mothers is higher when there is little to no relationship with the father. I believe drug abouse is more prevalent in both genders as well. Is there any validity to these theories and, if so, what is a substitute for a bond that does not occur regardless of how good the father is?

    If we could get them to address this with more than just “the brain is plastic,” we might have something we could test.

    Who is “them”?

  • Drowssap

    Lynn David

    How did you survive being out of work for 10 months? I own a small company and it’s small enough that I have to do a LOT of the work myself. If I was out for even 1 month I’d be dead.

    You must have awesome insurance.

  • Lynn David

    Well… I had saved up a good amount – or so I thought. I have no health insurance, the company I had a policy with priced me out of it last year ($24,000 a year was ridiculous). I’ve saved all throughout my lifetime, worked as a petroleum geologist, own a farm (yep, gay farmer) and that is how I mostly get my income now. Stored my corn crop from 2007 and sold it this year for a goodly amount this year. Even so…. that savings, and income from my crop, is now mostly gone. These several sicknesses wiped me out and even now that I am home I still need some rehab on an arm/shoulder that froze up and I’m just hoping my soybean crop does anything better than 20 bushels to the acre this year since my cousin, with whom I share-crop, couldn’t get it planted because of the heavy flooding this year in the midwest.

  • Warren

    Mike – Thanks for your candor. It is still an open question whether pulling away actually impacts sexual attractions, even if it was you that pulled away.

    I recall a conversation with a young man who describes his dad as a wonderful man in every way. Very involved, not abusive, present, salient, etc. All was well until mid-teens when he became aware of being attracted to the same sex. At that time, he made a conscious effort to distance himself from his dad because he was sure he would disappoint his dad with his homosexuality. He thought if I can stop loving him then he will stop loving me and then it won’t hurt so bad when he finds out. This makes me very sad even writing it. The story had a happier conclusion but that is all the detail I want to give.

    I know of another situation where a young man came to his amazing father (I know this first hand) and made a SSA disclosure. They came to me because they knew I was skeptical of the reparative theory (they had been to your – Exodus website – and FOTF and NARTH). Nothing there fit them.

    I could go on. I wish I could somehow get across the harm that can come from repeating ideas with such little validation or support.

  • Warren

    Ann – The “them” is/are the proponents of reparative drive theory.

  • Drowssap

    When I read that it makes my blood pressure go up. I have heatlh and life insurance but no backup plan for income. I absolutely, positively have to work or I’m a gonner. My wife works as a preschool teacher which is like $900 a month. Everything else is on me. I’m only 38 and I haven’t started saving for retirement yet. Right now I’m happy just to pay the bills every month.

    Eeeeeeee…. I need savings.

  • Ann

    Drowssap,

    Have you checked out disability insurance? I have mine with Mass Mutual.

  • Drowssap

    Ann

    Actually I do have disability through my life insurance guy.

    My wife and I have a goal this year to save $5,000 which will give us a grand total of $5,000 in savings. =O

  • Ann

    The “them” is/are the proponents of reparative drive theory.

    Thank you for the clarification.

    I wish I could somehow get across the harm that can come from repeating ideas with such little validation or support.

    You’re doing it with posts like this – thank you – every individual comes with their own story and it should never have to fit another’s to be validated.

  • Ann

    My wife and I have a goal this year to save $5,000 which will give us a grand total of $5,000 in savings

    Drowssap,

    The best investment you have made is in your marriage and how you love and respect each other – with that foundation everything else will fall into place :-)

  • Evan

    Ann,

    There is one Swedish study I read several months ago which concluded that fathers’ involvement in their children’s development reduced behavioural problems in boys and psychological problems in young women. Apparently, according to the authors of this study, women who had benefited from paternal investment had better relationships with their partners and greater sense of well-being. The media report can be found here. Anyone interested can read the study here.

    It is known already that early maternal interaction and stimulation is crucial to the proper development of specific areas from the emotional brain which are later involved in forming social bonds (the amygdala and the septal nuclei). Animal studies proved that deprivation of early interaction can lead to serious social disabilities, such as inability to read social cues or to form bonds. These areas are very important in the formation of early attachment and later for the ability to feel love and attachment to a loved one. Children who are not properly stimulated or cared for can be impaired in their social and emotional life, sometimes for the rest of their lives. There’s no direct correlation with same-sex attractions, though. It might be a factor for those SSA-ed men and women who have avoidant personality and who are socially disabled by anxiety problems.

  • Michael Bussee

    Drowssap asked: “Is Narth a bad organization with bad people?”

    I definitely think so. They have not renounced Cameron’s views, they keep “experts” like Berger (“don’t stop bullying gay kids”) and Schoenewolf (“slaves had it better off”).

    Until they clean house, until they adopt real scientific standards instead of promtoing their theories as facts — bad organization run by very bad people.

  • Drowssap

    Michael Bussee

    This might sound really stupid because I see his name used a lot but who is Cameron? I guess I need to google that guy.

  • Drowssap

    Ann

    The best investment you have made is in your marriage and how you love and respect each other – with that foundation everything else will fall into place

    Yup. 100% true.

    If you’ve got these three things you’ve got a perfect life.

    A) A good relationship with your spouse

    B) Good personal health and a healthy spouse

    C) Healthy children

    Nothing else is terribly significant. I wouldn’t trade those three things for a billion dollars and I’m not joking on that.

  • Ann

    Drowssap, Michael,

    I don’t know who he is either but from what I gather, not too many people on here care for him. Who is he?

  • Ann

    If you’ve got these three things you’ve got a perfect life.

    A) A good relationship with your spouse

    B) Good personal health and a healthy spouse

    C) Healthy children

    Drowssap,

    Well said – the only two things I would add is belief/faith/trust in God, and if one is a Christian, belief in Jesus and the power of redemption He brings. The other thing would be to instill RESILIANCY in children anytime and anyway one can to meet the myriad of circumstances and feelings they will incur.

  • Drowssap

    Ann

    You are right but I’d add that anybody without good, strong values has an enormous chance to NOT have any of those 3 things.

    Take this example… (there are a million of these)

    Herpes Virus Link To Preterm Birth And High Blood Pressure During Pregnancy

    Their work demonstrates, for the first time, that exposure to viral infection — especially viruses of the herpes group — may be associated with pregnancy-induced hypertensive disease (pre-eclampsia) and also with pre-term birth.

    The research discovered the presence of viral nucleic acid in heel-prick blood samples from 1326 newborn babies, taken over a 10-year period. More than 400 of these babies were diagnosed with cerebral palsy.

    So a girl sleeps around, catches herpes and later her child is born with Cerebral Palsy. I doubt they teach teens how unbelievably dangerous STDs are in sex ed class.

  • Drowssap

    Ann

    If herpes caused Cerebal Palsy in adults instead of their children you can bet casual sex would lose a lot of it’s cool factor.

    …then again AIDS runs counter to that idea. I think I heard that AIDS rates were going up. So I dunno…

    In any case “old fashioned” values can be life savers.

  • Michael Bussee

    Drowssap asked: “I see his name used a lot but who is Cameron?” Check it out here: http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,020.htm

    Dr. Throckmorton has blogged about him quite a bit, calling his views and “solutions” to the “gay problem” “abhorrent” and saying “there are many evils in this world and Cameron is one of them”.

    In spite of this, EXODUS only recently stopped citing his ridiculous and hateful “research” (mainly at Throckmorton’s urging), but EXODUS has never publicly denounced the man or his views — as Throckmorton has done.

    NARTH continues to cite his “research” and seems to have no problem at all with his views of gays as “parasitic” or with his holocaust-revisionist ideas. EXODUS and NARTH have done very little to speak up loudly and clearly about this hatemonger.

    Why is that? It truly makes them look like “bad organizations with bad people.” Why won’t they do as Throckmorton has done? Do they agree with Cameron? If not, why won’t they say so and clearly denounce the man and his hateful teachings?

  • http://attachmentprone.blogspot.com Corey

    As a gay man, my father was very active in my life, and we still have a strained relationship. He couched my soccer team, did homework with me, gave me pep talks, paid for private school and summer camps, really and genuinely cared about being a good father for both my sister and I. But good intentions do not always mean good parenting.

    In fact when I came out, I came out to him first. His response was, he said he was so proud of our relationship that I was able to tell him something like that and that he would never of been that close to his own father. He said he loved me and was very positive. So all the years of me feeling I would be rejected was my own issue. But his tennis partner’s son I was in love with at 15 and me and him hooked up although now he has a girlfriend and is “str8” but we are still good friends to this day. But anyway my dad found out by overhearing a conversation and tried to stop my relationship with him. So I felt like I was given a mixed message. Verbally there was the positive parental talk but in reality open aggression towards my first love. And there are still things that bother me like how my parents discuss my sister’s love life. They ask me questions about her bf, ponder when she will get married. Want to meet anyone she is interested in and so on but my relationships are just ignored- kind of like don’t ask don’t tell. Which is very hurtful even though not intentional.

    I always felt distance. It is the whole idea: what comes first the chx or the egg? Bad relationships with fathers do not cause being gay. Being gay conversely often cause bad relations. Everyone wants to feel accepted for who they really are, why narcissistic parents are so harmful, and when you are young and feel your parents want to change you or do not accept you at your most basic level your trust in them in broken and that strains the relationship. I think a large part of parenting is modeling to a little version of oneself. If you feel attached you want to pass everything down. Being gay throws that off. Also the study is flawed because the lesbians I know have the same sort of issues but with their mothers. So if like the study says, that there is some systemic societal issue with men being distant than why are there an equal amount or lesbians as gay men?

    The problem is parents want to live through their children, instead of accepting and loving what their child really is. I bet most parents of gay children deep down know their child was gay from jump street. Being gay I feel is a hybrid gender (It is my personal belief that gay men are a mix of male and female and that our brains must be different then str8 men. And conversely lesbians exhibit more masculine behaviors. And in a society that does not like more feminine qualities in a boy the father is probably embarrassed or giving him the benefit of doubt, may honestly not know how to relate as well. I have since 4 years of age known I was attracted to guys. My parents are married 31 years, were loving and there was no abuse. A lot of my str8 male friends also have issues with their dads. Maybe men just have a hard time being emotionally connected with another man.

    Additionally, why is homosexuality reported in all animal species. We are part of the ecosystem. Native Americans believed there were gods and spirits involved in the female gender and of the male gender and those who exhibited qualities of both were viewed as blessed. We should start viewing homosexuality as a blessing instead of something that can be corrected.

    The main root of the problem is people want an image or this fantasy so they blind themselves to reality.

    I would also like to point out that in the procreation of bees, the worker bees are perfectly capable of procreating but they do not. They are still part of the process and an important part of the ecosystem. Maybe gays affect the mating selection in another way then actually producing offspring themselves. Although now a lot of gays are having children so maybe this is just a tangent. In any regard, I hope my perspective helps in some way.

  • Don

    I know for me, I can’t look at any one thing and say it was the cause of my same-sex attractions. However, I do believe the relationship with my dad is a factor. So was my relationship with mother, other family members, my temperament, abuse, etc.

    At the same time, I don’t know of anyone in “ex-gay” ministries who try to get people to hang their hat on a single cause. It’s up to the person to look at the many factors that could contribute and ask God to bring healing where needed.

  • Charles

    A poor or good father-son relationship may only influences how one chooses the type of person one ends up dating, both for straight and gay people. One doesn’t become straight nor becomes gay, one is born with a distinctive nature and it is not the “athmosphere” one grows in that turns someone into a gay or a straight person. Sex is not a choice but a God’s given feature like talents and other things we are born with and we don’t have control over. The real issues boils down to how society reacts to minorities and how one lives his or her sexuality and how much they abuse of it. Homosexuality is perfectly normal in nature but some religions demonize it mainly on the basis that sex is only for having children, a principle that can be perfectly acceptable. The problem arises when straight people having sex are tolerated even if they do not have procreation intents. Also, many priests do not marry and do not procreate and their same own logic against homosexuality files them in the category of unnaturally behaving people. But we know they are aiming to higher goals so they are doing right. This means that there are people who are destined to reproduce and have children and others, like priests, singles, sterile male and females, gay people and others, are not. Not difficult to understand. Our society overemphasises sex and sex related issues to the point of deep obsession. Sex instincts are to be brought under control not to be indulged in to the point of dependence and hate for others who are not into our same objects of desire but in their own right have our very same urges.


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