Jon and Kate plus 8 plus 8 plus million

Jon and Kate have an announcement.

Please let it be: We are leaving the show and getting counseling.

I’ll do it pro bono.

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  • http://theformers.wordpress.com Debbie Thurman

    The announcement is said to to be a divorce and 40 more episodes planned by the network. Pretty sad and sick. Even sicker is the agreement they signed giving Jon the right to have girlfriends if he would hypocritically tape the show for six months. I have only watched it a couple times because I can’t stand to see those kids being raised i a fish bowl. The soap opera element is tailor-made for ratings.

  • Jayhuck

    Oy – If this wasn’t so sad – and it really is – it would be laughable considering all the time, effort and money that has gone into trying to deny a class of citizens marital rights

  • http://theformers.wordpress.com Debbie Thurman

    I don’t see the two issues as being closely related, Jayhuck. You can find screw-ups of all shapes, sizes and orientations. Jon and Kate and all the other straight bozos don’t make the case for gay marriage. I think it would be far better for gay marriage advocates to use positive illustrations, to the extent that they exist.

  • http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com Timothy Kincaid

    I think it would be far better for gay marriage advocates to use positive illustrations, to the extent that they exist.

    I agree. Jon and Kate’s public nonsense says nothing to the debate about marriage equality.

    The failure of the heterosexual community to engage in the institution of marriage with dignity is relevant only to the extent that it betrays the hypocrisy of claiming that civil marriage has “sanctity” or is “traditional”. Rather than rely on the failures of others, advocates for marriage equality should show positive illustrations of gay couples treasuring marriage and upholding its principles.

    That one of the interesting things about marriage in Massachusetts. That state does a better job of treating marriage with respect than any other state. So opinions there about marriage are not driven by failure but rather by success.

    And after five years, Bay Staters have had time to get to see real same-sex marriages, how they function, why they occur and what they mean.

    By every measure, in every poll, it is clear that Massachusetts, having seen it first hand, is content with marriage equality.

  • Jayhuck

    Tim and Debbie,

    I think it would be far better for gay marriage advocates to use positive illustrations, to the extent that they exist.

    I absolutely agree. And Tim, you are right, it doesn’t speak directly to the issue of marriage equality. I really just find it amusing that when there are “screw ups”, or whatever you would like to call the Jon and Kate issue, dealing with opposite sex marriage, you really don’t see the level of outrage from conservative Christians that you do when they address the issue of gay marriage. At least I don’t see it. :)

  • Jayhuck

    I’m elaborating on that last post – I just don’t see the same kind of intensity being given to the problems within opposite sex marriage as I that which goes into trying to ban marriage equality – But the fact of the matter is my post has little if anything to do with this thread ;)

  • Mary

    The best thing anyone of us can do for these people is to not tune in. They obviously are in pain and struglling with complications. I pray they surprise the viewers with a commitment to marriage counseling.

  • Jayhuck

    Mary,

    I pray they surprise the viewers with a commitment to marriage counseling.

    AMEN!

  • Eddy

    Jon and Kate would be ‘under the radar’ of most conservative Christians. Most consider me tainted by how much television I watch; I doubt many even know who Jon and Kate are–they aren’t on the Disney Channel, are they? Their impending divorce should be of no real significance to Christian conservatives unless Jon and Kate also profess to be devout Christians. Otherwise, just another shipwreck. Cause for concern and prayer maybe– perhaps it’ll even slip in as a sermon example in a few churches–but not outrage.

  • Jayhuck

    So conservative Christians don’t care about opposite sex marriage in general – just one’s they consider significant?

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton Warren

    As far as impact goes, probably because we watch the show we see it differently here. They have a website which provides a clear Christian witness (surreal right now).

    I think any public upsetness will be muted because it can come across as hitting people while they are down. However, I lean toward the view that high profile divorces like this detract from pragmatic arguments for marriage being between a man and a woman (e.g., straights stay together longer than gays).

  • Eddy

    So conservative Christians don’t care about opposite sex marriage in general – just one’s they consider significant?

    Already answered:

    Cause for concern and prayer maybe– perhaps it’ll even slip in as a sermon example in a few churches–but not outrage.

    Please note that ‘concern and prayer’ ‘translate as ‘care’.

    It was meant to provide counterpoint to this nugget:

    you really don’t see the level of outrage from conservative Christians that you do when they address the issue of gay marriage.

    An apples and oranges kind of thing. Asomewhat well-known media couple getting a divorce (something that is legal but that many churches often decry from the pulpit and fight against in their congregations) juxtaposed against ‘the issue of gay marriage’. Warren’s observation that they do present ‘a strong Christian witness’ on their website should ramp up how many pastors or churches address their specific divorce before their congregations. It should also ramp up the concern and prayer but would still not justify ‘outrage’.

    I do see strong resistance to gay marriage from many Christian conservatives but really have no barometer by which to gauge their ‘level of outrage’. Media coverage would not be a sufficient barometer. Churches speaking out against divorce is ‘old news’ and doesn’t sell; speaking out about the pending issue of gay marriage is more timely and topical and hence gets more media exposure.

  • David Blakeslee

    A public identity creates an image, which becomes a target.

    Lights, camera, make-up, tummy tucks and so on…”Action!”

    What a fantasy we have made of marriage.

    It is full of blessing and experiences incomparably wonderful.

    Trauma, suspicion and hurt also…

    Jessica Simpson espoused Christian ideals as well…

    Putting a sacred rite on TV can only trivialize it…people play to the camera…commercial breaks…artificial construction of tension, conflict and resolution.

    Ask any Judge in a court which has TV.

  • David Blakeslee

    Warren,

    No “Father’s Day” Post?

  • Jayhuck

    Warren,

    No “Father’s Day” Post?

    Since there is no other place to hang this, I guess I’ll just say Happy Father’s day to all the gay and straight fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers out there! That reminds me, I need to call mine too :)

  • http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com Timothy Kincaid

    However, I lean toward the view that high profile divorces like this detract from pragmatic arguments for marriage being between a man and a woman (e.g., straights stay together longer than gays).

    Warren,

    I hope you’re using that as an example of an argument rather than a statement of fact.

    I don’t know of good information about the length of gay relationships. Some that pretends to be is laughable.

    How would one go about measuring the length of something that isn’t allowed in most states? In the next decade or so we will be able to have some measure of the length of gay relationships based on either divorce rates or domestic partnership terminations. At that point we can say that gay marriages last shorter or longer on average.

    But until then it’s difficult to say. It’s hard to compare something when the way you measure it is not the same for both groups.

    The Urban Institute says that “30 percent of gay and lesbian people are living in a committed relationship in the same residence.” After the 2010 census we may know whether or not that is true.

    I have noticed, however, that many of the same-sex marriages that have taken place since legalization seem to be between couples that have been together for many years, sometimes many decades.

  • David Blakeslee

    Maybe the announcement is she is pregnant again…

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton Warren

    @David Blakeslee:

    I wonder if Vegas has any odds on that one.

  • http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com Timothy Kincaid

    Alas, it was as expected.

    Sigh.

  • Michael Bussee

    They used to say that if America crumbled, it would be from the inside. Same is true of heterosexual marriage. Gays pose no threat to it.

  • Mary

    Yeah, I’d love to hear the outrage from conservative christians on this – NOT. But hey if Jon and Kate were gay you could bet on seeing it everywhere. Sadly, this is a human tragedy for the children and the spouses. No one ever goes into a marriage with the contigency plan being divorce and having 8 kids to manage and raise.

  • David Blakeslee

    Hmmm….

    Passive vs. Controlling; doesn’t sound quite right…there is a part of marriage that is about accepting the limitations of one’s partner…but there is a part of marriage about dealing humbling with how my limitations place the marriage at risk.

    The illusion in acceptance of the partner, is that the limitations we accept will not harm the marriage…They still do.


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