Gug speaks to CNN

Gay Uganda talks to CNN. Roll the tape:

  • http://gayuganda.blogspot.com gayuganda

    Uh….

    Will Maazi send the police after me? Because I am a criminal, breaking the law of the country, in his view

    Or Giles Muhame, knowing who I am, make sure I am hanged now… judicially of course?!

  • Maazi NCO

    Uh….

    Will Maazi send the police after me? Because I am a criminal, breaking the law of the country, in his view

    Or Giles Muhame, knowing who I am, make sure I am hanged now… judicially of course?!

    Please do not flatter yourself. Enjoy the limelight while it lasts. It is good you are playing fiddle to your western fans. In the future, you will certainly need their help to relocate overseas when the sodomy laws are strengthened to take care of gay militancy.

  • http://gayuganda.blogspot.com gayuganda

    Maazi,

    I am sorry but you are deluded.

    I am not leaving Uganda. No way.

    I love it. It is my country. It has my people. I am too in love with it.

    Now, you will do your best to have me thrown out of the country. I promise to do my best to make sure that I stay.

    We shall see, even if I do die, executed by the your legal means, but, I will die in my country, which is Uganda.

    Now, take that, and mull over it.

    gug

  • Maazi NCO

    Maazi,

    I am sorry but you are deluded.

    I am not leaving Uganda. No way.

    I love it. It is my country. It has my people. I am too in love with it.

    Now, you will do your best to have me thrown out of the country. I promise to do my best to make sure that I stay.

    We shall see, even if I do die, executed by the your legal means, but, I will die in my country, which is Uganda.

    Now, take that, and mull over it.

    gug

    Whatever floats your boat man. I see you are still pretending that anyone who is opposed to your deviant behaviour wants you dead. Anyway, its good propaganda and will keep your western fans entertained. Staying or leaving Uganda is your choice. I am only advising you to seek alternatives because gayism will NEVER be accepted by the Ugandan people.You are free to reject my advice. It is inevitable that the gaps in the sodomy laws will be closed at some point in the near future and there is nothing you can do about it apart from crying out to your western fans thousands of miles away. Now take that and mull over it

  • http://gayuganda.blogspot.com gayuganda

    Maazi is like Ssempa.

    I think you both boast the same kind of ‘education’…. No, I am very poorly qualified to teach you English. You seem to know it better than me.

    So, I will not point out your words and thoughts…. they seem too clear to all but you.

    Have a good day, Maazi.

    And, I do plan to stay in Uganda.

    [If only to spite you...!]

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Maazi

    You really are a ‘little charmer’, aren’t you.

    (Oh, and don’t start telling us you ‘love Jesus’, by the way … after what you’ve said your compatriot, telling us that you loved Jesus would be a disgusting travesty, and could bring condemnation upon yourself.)

  • Maazi NCO

    @ Maazi

    You really are a ‘little charmer’, aren’t you.

    (Oh, and don’t start telling us you ‘love Jesus’, by the way … after what you’ve said your compatriot, telling us that you loved Jesus would be a disgusting travesty, and could bring condemnation upon yourself.)

    Its always funny how westerners pander to the nonsensical Africa stereotypes dished to them by western ignoramuses masquerading as international journalists and assume that everyone opposed to abberent sexual activity is motivated by religious belief. Gayism is not part of African culture, traditions and customs. For that reason, it will remain banned. No compromises.

  • MUHANGUZI

    i always get amused when people say stuff like ‘Gayism is not part of African culture, traditions and customs.’

    well how about sacrificing twins? (African culture and customs… *face-palm*)

    actually there is a word for gay in almost every local dialect in Uganda, which usually comes first? the act or the word? (mind you these are not new words!)..

    Kabaka Mwanga has an interesting history, if you have ever bothered. the truth is the only thing being imported into Uganda from American Evangelicals and other xtian fundies is HOMOPHOBIA… the average Ugandan doesn’t really give a hoot who you sleep with and how you sleep with them, provided you keep it a private matter….(which it is, to start with…).

    if you don’t like men who sleep with men, the solution is simple… DON’T SLEEP WITH THEM! …am straight and find it amusing why people are so afraid of gay people, they’re human beings just like you and me, only differing in a small way (sexual preference- which shouldn’t be a crime!)

    i am Ugandan and I am appalled at the levels of homophobia ignorance in my country….

    TUSWALA!

  • http://gayuganda.blogspot.com gayuganda

    [South Africa is thus not part of Africa...]

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Maazi

    You cannot deny that extremist so-called ‘christians’ in UG have been at the forefront of the deceitful, despicable and anti-christian campaign against gay Ugandans (of which there are plenty, by the way).

    I’m not a ‘ignoramus’, by the way. I am actually really quite well informed on the situation in UG, and many UG friends and contacts, both gay and straight, both religious and not. One of my UG contacts is close to a (sensible) senior member of the UG Government, and this contact think that my analysis of the situation is really rather perceptive!

    You make a fundamental mistake in your appraisal of ‘culture’. You forget that culture is a relative and evolving thing, and the discussion sparked by people like Bahati is leading to a wide-ranging, and maybe ‘culture-changing’, discussion in UG.

  • Maazi NCO

    All of you can bray all you want, but gayism will NEVER be accepted by the Ugandan people. There is no room for such deviant sexual behaviour in most of Africa–this is popular consensus. Deviants who insist on practicing gayism in defiance of the law must be ready to be prosecuted. Its as simple as that !!

  • Maazi NCO

    i am Ugandan and I am appalled at the levels of homophobia ignorance in my country….

    MUHANGUZI,

    If you are appalled then go and live in USA. While you are there, remember to be appalled that more than 40 states in that nation ban gay marriage and that FDA bans sodomites from donating their risky blood to hospitals. Also be appalled that sex deviants are unable to serve openly in the United States Armed Forces.

    You make a fundamental mistake in your appraisal of ‘culture’. You forget that culture is a relative and evolving thing, and the discussion sparked by people like Bahati is leading to a wide-ranging, and maybe ‘culture-changing’, discussion in UG.

    Richard Willmer,

    This is just wishful thinking. The Bahati Bill—in spite of its numerous flaws— is leading a debate that will eventually see gay advocacy in the PUBLIC SPHERE extinguished in Uganda. No need to deceive yourself with fake statistics manufactured by westerners claiming that our people are becoming more tolerant of gayism. In fact, the anger of the Ugandan people towards gayism is stronger than it was when a UNESCO boss was expelled from the country in 2007 for secretly distributing pro-gay sex literature in schools. The Ugandan people are angrier than they were when local proxies for the Euro-American Gay Propagandist Lobby presented themselves publicly back in 2005.

  • http://gayuganda.blogspot.com gayuganda

    There will come a time when all Ugandans….

    No. ALL UGANDANS MUST MUST THINK like Maazi.

    That time is very near. It is pre-eminent. It must come.

    ALL UGANDANS, nay, ALL AFRICANS must, No, MUST think like Maazi….

    [Gosh, am I glad that I am an African, and dont think like Maazi!]

    Hey, dude, sorry to say, but… why the anger? Why the huge chip? This is a typical case of you having to look close in your mirror, to actually come to grips with what you are.

    Why are you so bothered, dear Maazi?

    No, I am no longer complaining that you represent Africans, or Ugandans. Thanks to your sermons on this blog, I doubt anyone believes so anymore.

    But, I am concerned about you…. you are gonna burst a vein somewhere.

    Why the anger, Maazi? Why the huge chip on your shoulder that only you dont see?

  • Maazi NCO

    Dear GayUganda,

    Why are you so bothered, dear Maazi?

    I am not bothered at all, but you should be.

    But, I am concerned about you…. you are gonna burst a vein somewhere.

    Ha, ha, ha. You shouldn’t be concerned about me. You should be concerned about yourself and your standing with the law.

    Hey, dude, sorry to say, but… why the anger? Why the huge chip? This is a typical case of you having to look close in your mirror, to actually come to grips with what you are.

    If this is an attempt at psycho-analyzing me, then you are a complete failure.

    No, I am no longer complaining that you represent Africans, or Ugandans

    Ah, that’s good. You are beginning to see the reality. Your pro-gay views are only respected in liberal segments of Western society while mine are mainstream in Uganda and most of Africa. On a global scale, my views are mainstream in nearly 80 nations worldwide that criminalize sexual deviance and in many of the 112 nations where gayism is not explicitly outlawed, but is nevertheless legally restricted via bans on gay marriage, gay propaganda in schools, ban on gay blood donation and ban on gay military service. It goes without saying that in many of these 112 nations, gayism is overwhelmingly rejected by society.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Maazi

    I speak with Ugandans on daily basis. Almost without exception, they hate the anti-gay rhetoric of people like Ssempa and Bahati.

  • Maazi NCO

    @ Maazi

    I speak with Ugandans on daily basis. Almost without exception, they hate the anti-gay rhetoric of people like Ssempa and Bahati.

    Richard Willmer,

    Of course. You speak to GayUganda, Frank Mugisha, Val Kalende, “Bishop” Chris Ssenyonjo, David Kato, Julie Oniezema, “Reverend Canon” Gideon Byamugisha and a host of other Ugandan spokespersons for the euro-american gay lobby. Please continue to deceive yourself that their views represent the opinions of most Ugandans.

  • http://gayuganda.blogspot.com gayuganda

    To know the opinion of Ugandans, you have to speak to one Maazi.

    I have followed the gentleman’s sermons for some time, And, I kind of find myself pitying him.

    Surely, it is of people like this that Jesus spoke. You want to take a stick out of my eye. But, you have a huge log sticking out of yours. I think the guy then uttered an expletive, [very, very appropriate] and said, first take the log out of YOUR eye. you will see better to take the stick out of MINE.

    Sounds logical, doesnt it?

    Maazi is like Ssempa. Ssempa loves homosexuals…. so much that he fully supports putting them in prison for life, and the death penalty… oh, I forgot, he became compassionate after some people pushed. Just 20 years in prison… that is the fitting punishment….!

    Maazi doesnt want me out of the country… that is me misreading him… can we pick out the number of times he has intimated that I get the hell out of Uganda, and Africa?….

    Poor man…. indeed, Maazi, you are to be pitied, rather…

    Of course, speaking to gayuganda, you dont get the opinion of most Ugandans. No, you get the opinion of gayuganda. And, of Val, Frank, and others…. thanks be to the deities for those Africans, Ugandans. They, for some reason, dont think that Maazi should speak for them. And, they assert that they are different…

    Isnt that amazing?

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Maazi

    Actually, the people you list are not those with whom I am generally communicating (although I do know some of them). I won’t names names, but …

    One of the things that many of my UG friends and contacts say is that they are fed up with the hypocrisy of those who are stirring up hatred of their fellow Ugandans. They feel that much of the anti-gay rhetoric is designed to deflect attention from the country’s real problems. Many educated Ugandans know full well that most of this ‘child recruitment’ stuff is just cheap, dirty propaganda, and that the vast majority of those recruited into prostitution are female (as is the vast majority of victims of child abuse).

    Perhaps the important point is that there is now an lively discussion on what was once a ‘taboo’. This is an encouraging development.

  • http://exgaywatch.com David Roberts

    It may be a little off topic, but I wanted to say that, from all I have seen, gayuganda seems like a beautiful person — kind, intelligent and thoughtful. I could only wish for neighbors like him and his husband. I pray for your safety and piece of mind my friend. Please forgive us for any part our culture has played in disrupting your life and robbing you of your safety. It truly is a crime.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Maazi

    We’ve looked at ‘culture’. Let’s now go to deeper (or ‘deeeeeeepah’, as Martin Ssempa might say!): MORALITY (which transcends culture).

    Two points for you to consider:-

    1. Yesterday, I received news (not from Frank M., etc., or Gug – but from another source) of an (alleged) attack on someone who had expressed opposition to the Bahati Bill, and whom his attackers believed was gay.

    Do you consider such attacks as morally acceptable? YES or NO?

    2. Martin Ssempa wants the Bahati Bill, but without the hangings (so he claims). He favours (or favoured – he might be starting to ‘change his tune’) 20 years imprisonment for those in consensual gay relationships. This would mean that two men in a long-term relationship would be sent to prison for a long time; HOWEVER, another man who sleeps with a different woman each night (and therefore constitutes a much greater public health risk) would not be sent to prison at all.

    Do you think that this is a morally acceptable situation? YES or NO?

    (By the way, on the subject of public health: according to a recent report [a copy of which I sent to Warren a couple of weeks ago] most current HIV transmission in UG seems to be from an unfaithful husband to his wife.)

    Let’s ‘grow up’. Let’s stop using ‘culture’ as an excuse for unjust discrimination, and instead look at FACTS and MORAL PRINCIPLES.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Maazi

    One more thing: I’ve spent the last year speaking with people who USED to Bahati / Ssempa, etc.. All but two no longer do so (and those two are rather less ‘certain’ these days, so there’s hope for their souls yet); some of those who have ‘repented’ have expressed their new-found opposition in public forums (there’s nothing like the ‘zeal of a convert’!).

    Bahati gave ‘civilised humanity’ a wake-up call. And many people in UG and beyond have indeed ‘woken up’. Do not underestimate that!

  • Richard Willmer

    *USED to SUPPORT Bahati …*

  • Maazi NCO

    To know the opinion of Ugandans, you have to speak to one Maazi.

    To know the opinion of the Ugandan people a Vox Populi should be carried out in the country. I am confident that my view is pretty mainstream.

    Surely, it is of people like this that Jesus spoke. You want to take a stick out of my eye. But, you have a huge log sticking out of yours

    Spare me the religious sermons. Lets stick to talking about law and order.

    Of course, speaking to gayuganda, you dont get the opinion of most Ugandans. No, you get the opinion of gayuganda. And, of Val, Frank, and others…. thanks be to the deities for those Africans, Ugandans. They, for some reason, dont think that Maazi should speak for them. And, they assert that they are different…

    Man, are you okay? Please return to planet earth.

  • Maazi NCO

    Bahati gave ‘civilised humanity’ a wake-up call. And many people in UG and beyond have indeed ‘woken up’. Do not underestimate that!

    Richard Willmer,

    Not really. The crudity of the Bahati Bill handed the euro-american propagandist lobby a coup and allowed all sorts of Western ignoramuses who think Africa is a country to feel that they are entitled to dictate to the Ugandan people. These are the same ignoramuses who did not raise alarm when the law on sex crimes was amended in 1997 to allow for the extreme sentence of death for men who rape females. If gay sex practitioners who commit rape were included in that 1997 amendment, we would have heard all sorts of gayism-obsessed Western crazies denouncing a country they cannot even locate in a world map.

    One of the things that many of my UG friends and contacts say is that they are fed up with the hypocrisy of those who are stirring up hatred of their fellow Ugandans. They feel that much of the anti-gay rhetoric is designed to deflect attention from the country’s real problems.

    There are some Africans who believe that whatever comes out of the mouth of a westerner is supreme. So I am not surprised that there are those who would support gayism. May be 30–40 years down the line, when westerners have gotten round to decriminalizing bestiality, these same Ugandan friends of yours will be there to argue that sexual intercourse with a favourite pet is fine. These friends will cleverly argue that consent is not required since we never ask animals for consent before we hunt them for fun, kill them for their delicious meat or use them on racecourses, zoos and circuses for entertainment.

    Many educated Ugandans know full well that most of this ‘child recruitment’ stuff is just cheap, dirty propaganda, and that the vast majority of those recruited into prostitution are female (as is the vast majority of victims of child abuse).

    Well, I was educated both in Uganda and in Europe. I have also travelled widely in world from United States were I lived and worked for a while to the Middle-East and Northeast Asia and South-east Asia. With regards to “child recruitment” in Uganda, I do believe that militant gay sex practitioners are trying to swell their ranks by recruiting vulnerable young people who they claim are “confused about their sexuality”. In 2007, the Western-controlled gay militants in Uganda did distribute fliers in which they invited young people allegedly “confused with their sexuality” to contact them. This caused outrage among the Ugandan people. One must not forget the UNESCO boss who was expelled that same year for secret distribution of pro-gay literature in schools amidst parental outrage.

    Perhaps the important point is that there is now an lively discussion on what was once a ‘taboo’. This is an encouraging development.

    I agree completely that it is an encouraging development. But do not delude yourself that the Ugandan people are moving anywhere towards the liberal attitudes of the Westerners on this matter. Ugandans—young and old—are overwhelmingly conservative. So the idea that discussing “taboo” will lead to tolerance is complete nonsense. By the way, the lively discussion is actually between Westerners and their local proxies on one side and the rest of the Ugandan people on the other side.

  • Maazi NCO

    Yesterday, I received news (not from Frank M., etc., or Gug – but from another source) of an (alleged) attack on someone who had expressed opposition to the Bahati Bill, and whom his attackers believed was gay.Do you consider such attacks as morally acceptable? YES or NO?

    Richard Willmer,

    Vigilantism is against the laws of the Ugandan State. No citizen has right to take the law into his or her hands. Having said that, I simply cannot take the word of gay militants on face value. Gay militants in Uganda are incredible liars. They will say anything to appeal to the emotions of gayism-obsessed westerners. It is an important tool in their propaganda war against the consensus opinion of the Ugandan people with regards to gayism. These are the same militants who spread the hoax that a sodomite was beheaded by anti-gay Ugandans. Many western media outlets and blogs published this hoax and till date many (but not all) have refused to retract their false reports.

    By the way, on the subject of public health: according to a recent report [a copy of which I sent to Warren a couple of weeks ago] most current HIV transmission in UG seems to be from an unfaithful husband to his wife

    Your statement above is completely true.That is why gayism which has the potential to sky-rocket the HIV infection rates must be beaten back without any compromise. We have enough problems with man-to-woman HIV/AIDS transmissions. We do not need to complicate it with sodomy-driven AIDS which is huge in the West and the reason why most health authorities in otherwise gay-friendly USA and most of Europe impose a blanket ban on sodomites contributing their high-risk blood to hospital patients.

    Let’s ‘grow up’. Let’s stop using ‘culture’ as an excuse for unjust discrimination, and instead look at FACTS and MORAL PRINCIPLES

    Well, moral principles vary place to place. In Amsterdam, it is morally right to buy cannabis in shops and smoke at home. In the United States, that same action will land you in jail. In Germany, Austria and Czech Republic, denying holocaust will land you in jail. In the United States, the same action will not even incur a fine not to mention jail time. In most Western nations, 3 consenting adults in a polygamous marriage are “bigamist criminals” who must be hunted down, tried in court and jailed. In most of Africa, polygamy is perfectly legal and gayism is morally unacceptable, un-African, decadent, perverse and degrading to human dignity—-and is therefore a sex crime with a strong punishment.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Maazi

    Do you support polygamy? For men, or for women, or for both? If so, what moral justification would you like to offer us (especially if you support polygamy for only one sex)? If for men only, what should the men who cannot get wives do? If for women only, what should women who cannot get husbands do?

    As a Christian, I do not agree that fundamental moral principles (e.g. “treat others as you would want them to treat to”) ‘vary from place to place’. Are you a Christian? If so, how do justify the idea of ‘variable moral principles’?

    ‘Enlighten’ us!

  • Jayhuck

    Richard –

    I suggest you simply ignore Maazi! I promise you, you’re not going to change his mind. Neither will you receive any compassionate, logical or coherent prose from him. The rest of us learned this the hard way ;) Good luck my friend, but srsly, just ignore him. I stopped reading his posts months ago. There are far better ways to carry on the fight than engaging this person :)

  • http://gayuganda.blogspot.com gayuganda

    Sigh….

    [I cannot ignore him... he is Ugandan...!]

    Sorry to say, but I am having great fun…. He is like a cock in the morning, crowing, crowing, posturing for others to admire his brilliant plumage. And, like Ssempa is, Maazi is a brilliant ambassador of the anti-gay people. Brilliant. The kind we ‘militant gays’ love, because they are so out and out frothing at the mouth, you know?

    Nay, he doesnt represent African thinking…. I love that… mainstream thinking… I love that Maazi. A few years ago, mainstream thinking in Rwanda was to go out and hack your neighbour… because he or she was of a different ethnic group. [Of course, Maazi, very unsuprisingly, blames it all on some Europeans, and Americans, and the UN....of course...!]

    Maazi, a very good morning to you….

    Some more please!

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Jayhuck

    Many read this excellent blog, and it may be instructive for them to see what passes for ‘thinking’ in some people’s head! (Most of my time on this issue is indeed spent on more ‘substantive’ work; commenting here is just a little sideline.)

    @ GUg

    You’re absolutely right: you can’t ignore people like him; your life’s on the line.

    @ Maazi

    Another question for you, honey: Archbishop Desmond Tutu supports full human rights for LGBT persons. Is he therefore, in your view, unAfrican? Would you prefer P.W.Botha as your ‘achetypical African’?

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Maazi

    One more question: since noone here is threatening to harm you in any way, why not tell us your real name? (GUg cannot, of course, for the sake of his own safety.)

  • Maazi NCO

    @ Maazi

    One more question: since noone here is threatening to harm you in any way, why not tell us your real name? (GUg cannot, of course, for the sake of his own safety.)

    Richard Willmer,

    What a bizarre request to make. It is completely irrelevant to this discourse.

    i. A few years ago, mainstream thinking in Rwanda was to go out and hack your neighbour… because he or she was of a different ethnic group. [Of course, Maazi, very unsuprisingly, blames it all on some Europeans, and Americans, and the UN....of course...!]

    GayUganda,

    Very, very clever. You are a brilliant propagandist. What is next? You gonna accuse the Ugandan State of being the new Nazi Germany? Please continue to equate your abhorrent sexual behaviour to race and ethnicity. It may win you friends in the hedonistic West, but you know such a pitch is dead even before it is presented to an African audience.

    @ Maazi

    Another question for you, honey: Archbishop Desmond Tutu supports full human rights for LGBT persons. Is he therefore, in your view, unAfrican?

    Richard Willmer,

    The man has an incredible liking for everything Western. No he is not un-African, but his views on this subject matter are. This does not detract from the fact that he contributed handsomely to the fight against the apartheid regime as did some South Africans of European ancestry, hence the inclusion of their gay culture in South Africa’s liberal constitution.

    Would you prefer P.W.Botha as your ‘achetypical African’?

    I will not dignify the above comment with an answer.

    @ Jayhuck

    Many read this excellent blog, and it may be instructive for them to see what passes for ‘thinking’ in some people’s head! (Most of my time on this issue is indeed spent on more ‘substantive’ work; commenting here is just a little sideline.)

    Of course, any person who cannot accept that Westerners are superior in intellect and hold the sole copyright to the definition of human rights—-a definition which is expanding daily to encompass all manners of western hedonistic activities—- is backward, primitive and unsophisticated. More so, if you are an African !!

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Maazi

    I know many extremely intelligent Africans. Funnily enough, they tend not support your views.

    Sorry you feel unable to answer my questions. Never mind. Bye for now.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Maazi

    I think you are suffering from an attack of acute ‘self-pity’. Noone here wants you vilified, imprisoned or hanged, yet your replies to our comments ooze hurt indignation.

    Your answer to the question on Tutu was well-argued, by the way (yes – I admit I was a bit naughty to mention Botha). Feel free to answer my other questions … in your time, of course. I’m always happy to listen!

    Turn it round: try to place yourself in GUg’s position for a moment. How would you feel? (YOU are the ‘minority’ on this blog – WE, the majority, are arguing tightly, and sometimes speaking sharply, but never bullying or seeking to harm.)

  • Maazi NCO

    @ Maazi

    I think you are suffering from an attack of acute ‘self-pity’. Noone here wants you vilified, imprisoned or hanged, yet your replies to our comments ooze hurt indignation.

    Your psychoanalysis is completely flawed. I am a self-made person. I do not suffer from any self-pity—-whatever gave you that idea !! I am merely stating the dominant viewpoint of the Ugandan people, which is that no amount of western bullying will make us accept the unacceptable. In fact, it would be far easier to get the pro-American Saudi Royals to grant gay rights in their middle-eastern fiefdom than to get us to do the same.

    @ Maazi

    I know many extremely intelligent Africans. Funnily enough, they tend not support your views.

    For every 10 Africans who share your belief system, there are thousands of extremely articulate young professional Africans proud of themselves and their cultural heritage. Articulate Africans who are unhappy with the current state of affairs. Those who feel that Africa’s dependence on donor aid packages robs us of our dignity, fuels corruption and presents an excellent tool for blackmail and manipulation by western donors who wish to impose their chaotic, hedonistic, socially liberal lifestyles on the African people.

    Turn it round: try to place yourself in GUg’s position for a moment. How would you feel? (YOU are the ‘minority’ on this blog – WE, the majority, are arguing tightly, and sometimes speaking sharply, but never bullying or seeking to harm.)

    GayUganda, should simply obey the law of the land. I am sorry that the Ugandan people cannot accept that his behaviour is “genetic” or “immutable” as there is no CREDIBLE scientific evidence to back it up. I cannot put myself in the shoes of someone who willfully engages in sex crimes and even advocates that the Ugandan people must accept it as “normal” whether they like it or not. If he wants to celebrate his deviant lifestyle, he can always pop over to Desmond Tutu’s house in South Africa or emigrate to San Francisco. If he stays in Uganda, then he is bound by the laws of the Republic of Uganda (not the laws of the Kingdom of Sweden or The Commonwealth of Canada). Its as simple as that.

  • Maazi NCO

    #

    Jayhuck# ~ Nov 8, 2010 at 1:27 am

    Richard –

    I suggest you simply ignore Maazi! I promise you, you’re not going to change his mind. Neither will you receive any compassionate, logical or coherent prose from him. The rest of us learned this the hard way ;) Good luck my friend, but srsly, just ignore him. I stopped reading his posts months ago. There are far better ways to carry on the fight than engaging this person :)

    Ha, ha, ha. Jayhuck is disappointed that I failed to fall for euro-american gay propaganda. You say there are far better ways to carry on the fight? You must be joking !! Short of killing almost all Ugandans and replacing them with liberal colonist settlers from America and Europe, I am sorry to say that you cannot do anything to advance your fight beyond getting western media to make some noise. At the right time, a revised Bahati Bill, stripped off its original crude provisions, shall become law.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Maazi

    We’ll see …

  • Maazi NCO

    @ Maazi

    We’ll see

    You can take my predictions to the bank

  • Richard Willmer

    Banks may indeed have something to do with the outcome!

  • Richard Willmer

    Let’s be brutally realistic: Britain cannot pass any law it wishes and expect to ‘get away with it’ in our global economy. Ugandan oil may be coming out of the ground in meaningful quantities by 2015, but the population of UG is rising at what many UG economists consider to be an unsustainable rate. UG GDP may rise considerably in the medium term, but will PER CAPITA GDP? That’s an open question. Also, foreign investors tend not to like places where there are people running around screaming ‘hang them, hang them’ (whoever ‘they’ might be). M7 understands this – he’s no Robert Mugabe; he’s a smart guy (I knew someone, now departed this life, who taught the young YKM, and she was most impressed)! Why do think the Rolling Stone has been ‘muzzled’ (despite possible backing from Buturo – whose political future is not looking too wonderful at the moment, I gather)?!

    As I said before, do not underestimate the strength of feeling against this anti-gay hysteria. It isn’t just a few queens in Berlin, London or Washington, you know; hard-headed business people are watching too, and in this internet age, watching is very easy to do.

    The Church of Uganda bishops, while pretty homophobic by our (well, everyone in this thread except your) standards, don’t want the Bahati Bill, with all its snooping and back-stabbing elements. Their suggestion is that current laws on rape and child sexual abuse and exploitation be made stronger, so that all victims of rape or child abuse/exploitation, regardless of sex, are protected under the law (as is the case in Britain, for example). This would be a much better way to go, and also play well with western governments. Remember that paper from Makerere back in January (was it ‘government-backed’, wonder???)? Its main recommendations were to focus on these issues, and leave people like GUg alone. A much better idea all round!

  • Richard Willmer

    Here’s the paper to which I refer (I don’t agree with everything it says, but its contents are very much more sensible than those of the Bahati Bill).

    http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/guest-column/68-guest-column/2372-uganda-not-yet-ready-for-gays-but-will-be-in-future

    Meanwhile, Muhame stills says Buturo ‘supports’ him. Does this include FINANCIAL support, I wonder?

  • Jayhuck

    Richard –

    Seriously Man – Ignore Maazi – We’ve all spoken to him. You will never be able to educate him, I promise. Several of us on this blog have tried for nearly a year

  • http://gayuganda.blogspot.com gayuganda

    Uh,

    spent some time with less than optimal access, and immediately came to see whether dear Maazi is continuing the push.

    Yes, the brilliant propagandist is back…

    [Did tell you about the use of labels. but, of course I know you will not give them up.]

    I found in my absence, you are kind of off topic for me… but, doesnt stop me from asking some questions.

    dear Maazi, you have gained so much from the west [ahem, ahem, before you burst a blood vessel, let me remind you, the British engineering education, and the travel in the states]

    Now, the question is, why do you have so much contempt and hatred for the west. You can insult our intelligence by telling us that you dont… and of course you can put me in any fitting cartegory of your mind.

    Am an African. I would count you as one of the ‘elite’…. hey, you have boasted so yourself on this blog.

    Why do you hate so much the people that you have gotten so much from?

    I remain

    poor, illiterate, under educated, gay, perverse…(lets get those out of the way)

    gayuganda

  • Maazi NCO

    Richard –

    Seriously Man – Ignore Maazi – We’ve all spoken to him. You will never be able to educate him, I promise. Several of us on this blog have tried for nearly a year

    Jayhuck,

    I thought you had no interest in reading my commentary on threads. It seems to me that love my commentary, but will not admit to that. -:)

  • Maazi NCO

    Let’s be brutally realistic: Britain cannot pass any law it wishes and expect to ‘get away with it’ in our global economy.

    Oh yes it can. Britain’s neighbour across the English channel– France– just passed a law banning the Islamic veil. Many will call this an attack on the human rights of muslim women to dress as they please. Contrary to western stereotypes, there are muslim women who do enjoy wearing the highly restrictive veil. In switzerland, muslims were recently banned from having miranets on their mosques. Belgium is already considering banning the islamic veil. Oh yes, Britain can pass any law it wishes and nothing will happen.

    Ugandan oil may be coming out of the ground in meaningful quantities by 2015, but the population of UG is rising at what many UG economists consider to be an unsustainable rate. UG GDP may rise considerably in the medium term, but will PER CAPITA GDP? That’s an open question

    .

    So Uganda will be dependent on western donor aid forever?. You will probably like that because it will allow you chaps to manipulate and blackmail us forever. Very, very funny. With good macro-economic policy, more trade within the EAC and in other African nations, the improvement of the tax collection system and good use of crude oil money, Uganda will be free of useless donor aid which fuels corruption. By the way, do you understand economics at all?

    Also, foreign investors tend not to like places where there are people running around screaming ‘hang them, hang them’ (whoever ‘they’ might be).

    If that were true then no one will invest in China after the brutal masscres of 1989 and other repressive policies it has. Nobody will trade with the pro-American Gulf Arab states whose punishment of sodomy makes the uganda’s largely unenforced anti-gay laws look extremely lenient. Having said that, I must reiterate that vigilantism and incitement to vigilantism is againt the laws of Uganda.

    M7 understands this – he’s no Robert Mugabe; he’s a smart guy (I knew someone, now departed this life, who taught the young YKM, and she was most impressed)! Why do think the Rolling Stone has been ‘muzzled’ (despite possible backing from Buturo – whose political future is not looking too wonderful at the moment, I gather)?!

    This shows you do not understand Ugandan politics. Nothing is ever what it seems.Buturo’s political future is of no consequence as the matter of tackling gayism is not personalized to any individual government official. I will not elaborate any further, but time will tell that your predictions is utter bunkum.

    As I said before, do not underestimate the strength of feeling against this anti-gay hysteria. It isn’t just a few queens in Berlin, London or Washington, you know; hard-headed business people are watching too, and in this internet age, watching is very easy to do.

    This is just propaganda talk. Realpolitik will ensure that business flows where necessary. If this were not the case, then the Saudis who actually hang sodomites will not be able to find any market for their oil in the West. A well-revised Bahati Bill passed into law will probably generate uproar in the Western media, but life and international business deals will go on as normal.

    The Church of Uganda bishops, while pretty homophobic by our (well, everyone in this thread except your) standards, don’t want the Bahati Bill, with all its snooping and back-stabbing elements. Their suggestion is that current laws on rape and child sexual abuse and exploitation be made stronger, so that all victims of rape or child abuse/exploitation, regardless of sex, are protected under the law.This would be a much better way to go, and also play well with western governments. Remember that paper from Makerere back in January (was it ‘government-backed’, wonder???)? Its main recommendations were to focus on these issues, and leave people like GUg alone. A much better idea all round!

    The above statement is incredibly optimistic. Even GayUganda will not dare be that optimistic !! I will conclude that your story ends like a Disneyland fairy tale. It seems that you are incapable of properly analyzing Ugandan politics partly because you are an ignorant foreigner and partly because your wishful thinking is getting in the way of a sober study of the Ugandan people’s position on gayism. But then, if your “prince-meets-a-princess-and-lives-happily-ever-after” analysis of the situation allows you to sleep better at night then so be it. “Ignorance”—they say—-”is bliss”.

  • Richard Willmer

    We’ll see … as you say, things are often not as they seem. You are pretty good at putting your own spin on things, Maazi. You want unjust discrimination against gay people, so you make out that it has to be inevitable.

    As I’ve said before, I’ve been communicating with many many Ugandans … and not ones you think, either.

  • Richard Willmer

    By the way, I have no doubt that there is a struggle ahead. A year ago, the Bahati Bill’s passage was pretty much a foregone conclusion, remember?

  • Richard Willmer

    Oh, and your final comment makes clear that you seem not like the idea of people living happily! Now tell us something we don’t know!

  • Maazi NCO

    dear Maazi, you have gained so much from the west [ahem, ahem, before you burst a blood vessel, let me remind you, the British engineering education, and the travel in the states]

    Dear GayUganda,

    Thanks for expressing health concerns for me. I assure you I will not burst a blood vessel—at least not on your account. Ha, ha, ha.

    Am an African

    Can you show me any place on this blog where I said you were not African? Definitely, you an African representative of the Euro-American Gay Lobby.

    I would count you as one of the ‘elite’…. hey, you have boasted so yourself on this blog.

    I am not a member of any [political] “elite” [group] since I am a self-made person. Never depended on a penny from any government official or politician for my success in life. I am definitely part of the Ugandan intelligentsia.

    Now, the question is, why do you have so much contempt and hatred for the west. You can insult our intelligence by telling us that you dont… and of course you can put me in any fitting cartegory of your mind.

    As a matter of fact, I don’t have contempt for Westerners, but many of them (not all of them) do have contempt for Africans and all things African. The liberals among them patronize Africans endlessly and the ultra-conservatives among them simply claim Africans have IQs of 70 and below. BTW, do you ever see Western governments screaming at Saudi Arabia or UAE on the matter of gayism? Recently, the foreign press was awash with the story of the Saudi diplomat who declared himself “gay” and was claiming asylum in the USA. Did US government have the courage to even ask Saudi Arabia to rethink its harsh policies towards sodomites? Recently, Hillary Clinton visited Malaysia where the ex-deputy PM Anwar Ibrahim is undergoing his second trial in court for the crime of sodomy. Did she condemn so-called “homophobia” there ? No !! She was too busy conspiring to secure a Southeast Asian alliance against rising China to bother about such a “non-event”. When confronted by journalists, Clinton merely said, tongue-in-cheek, that she received “assurances from Malaysian authorities that the Anwar Ibrahim will receive fair trial”. Even if she had paid lip-service to “gay rights” she would have been rudely told by her Malaysian hosts not to interfere in their internal affairs. If Museveni applies even a fraction of the energy he uses to denounce his foreign donors—–whenever they rightly ask for free and fair elections—- in the rejecting donor pressure on the matter of gayism, the donor countries (with possible exception of the Scandinavian nations) will simply back-off , especially now that crude oil have entered the equation.

  • Richard Willmer

    Three more points, one specifiic, two general:-

    1. The UG Government committee that looked at the Bill in the spring threw out all but of its clauses, and its conclusion were not dissimilar to those in the article I cited above;

    2. Britain has an array of treaty obligations (e.g. in the EU Treaty) which it has to respect in the ‘national interest’ (e.g. we cannot employ the death penalty if we wish to retain full membership of the EU with all the economic advantages that brings);

    3. (most importantly) The idea that homosexuality can be ‘eradicated’ in UG is losing credibility among many, and many now recognise that it has always been a reality in Africa, and will remain so … so the question that now arises in sober Ugandan minds is ‘how best should we accommodate this reality’.

  • Richard Willmer

    Three more points, one specific, two general:-

    1. The UG Government committee that looked at the Bill in the spring threw out all but one of its clauses, and its conclusion were not dissimilar to those in the article I cited above (the main difference being the omission of the idea of decriminalising private sexual acts persuant to informed consent);

    2. Britain has an array of treaty obligations (e.g. in the EU Treaty) which it has to respect in the ‘national interest’ (e.g. we cannot employ the death penalty if we wish to retain full membership of the EU with all the economic advantages that brings);

    3. (most importantly) The idea that homosexuality can be ‘eradicated’ in UG is losing credibility among many, and many now recognise that it has always been a reality in Africa, and will remain so … so the question that now arises in sober Ugandan minds is ‘how best should we accommodate this reality’.

  • Maazi NCO

    As I’ve said before, I’ve been communicating with many many Ugandans … and not ones you think, either.

    Please continue to “hope and pray” that whatever assurances your Ugandan sources are offering you that the bill will die is not wishful thinking and figments of their own imagination !!!

    By the way, I have no doubt that there is a struggle ahead. A year ago, the Bahati Bill’s passage was pretty much a foregone conclusion, remember?

    I am actually glad that the Bahati Bill as originally constituted was not passed. It was not properly written and had terrible provisions such as death penalty, prohibition of men holding hands (a sign of platonic friendship in most of Africa) and the laughable extradition of Ugandan gays abroad. Even the most socially conservative judge in Uganda would have declared the bill “unconstitutional” in its original format. Despite western pressure, it is still a forgone conclusion that a revised Bahati Bill will become law.

    Oh, and your final comment makes clear that you seem not like the idea of people living happily!

    The Ugandan people have no interest in seeing the legalization of gayism and the inevitable imposition of gay pride march, gay studies for children, same-sex “marriage” and European-style legal restrictions on people who reject gayism. Gay sex practitioners who feel that happiness can only flow from hedonism can emigrate to climes where such hedonistic behaviour is glorified.

  • Maazi NCO

    The UG Government committee that looked at the Bill in the spring threw out all but one of its clauses, and its conclusion were not dissimilar to those in the article I cited above (the main difference being the omission of the idea of decriminalising private sexual acts persuant to informed consent);

    Did you really understand what the government committee recommended? Please separate your fantasies from reality.

    The idea that homosexuality can be ‘eradicated’ in UG is losing credibility among many, and many now recognise that it has always been a reality in Africa, and will remain so … so the question that now arises in sober Ugandan minds is ‘how best should we accommodate this reality’.

    Another figment of your imagination. You should fire all your sources if what you wrote above is what they have been feeding you. Even GayUganda will not make the mistake of dishing out such drivel as propaganda for his western fans. If you do not know how to make propaganda, please take tutorials from GayUganda. He is an authority in that field of endeavour.

    Britain has an array of treaty obligations (e.g. in the EU Treaty) which it has to respect in the ‘national interest’ (e.g. we cannot employ the death penalty if we wish to retain full membership of the EU with all the economic advantages that brings

    That has not stopped France from banning the Islamic veil. Has it? Has it stopped Belgium from thinking of doing the same? Of course, death penalty is a no go area for Europeans. I should know. I was partly educated there. This kind of reminds me of how Europeans view Americans as barbarians for insisting on retention of the death penalty. USA doesn’t care a damn what the Europeans think and neither should we—with regards to gayism.

  • Richard Willmer

    So what you’re really saying is that it won’t be the Bahati Bill at all that could (in your view) become law, but something very different (the Bahati Bill was designed to achieve the elimination [by execution, indefinite detention or 'forced conversion'] of a section of he Ugandan population, namely gay people and anyone else who disagreed with him – Bahati has made that crystal clear). The $64,000 question is what ‘different bill’ might be proposed, and how any new proposal might be viewed by donor countries such as Canada, Sweden, etc..

    (Incidentally, you mentioned two things of interest in you posts above. Firstly, you said you favoured free and fair elections in UG. Has it not occured to you that the kind of political context that spawns Bahati Bills [which are inherently totalitarian in nature] is not one in which free and fair elections are likely? Secondly, you quite correctly mentioned that many countries have unjust laws aimed at gay people. What sets the situation in UG apart is that NEW, and almost uniquely savage, legislation was being proposed by Bahati, with the probable backing of his ‘political sugar daddy’, Buturo.)

    Noone here expects to see ‘gay marriages’ or ‘gay studies’ for children (neither of which we have in Britain, by the way!) in UG in the near future. Your citing of ‘gayism’ as some kind of political movement or philosophy is frankly the stuff of cheap rhetoric.

    My contacts are in a position to know what’s happening; like you, they’re not stupid, nor are they starry-eyed optimists.

    Well, we’ll see … not least because we’ll keep watching closely!

  • Richard Willmer

    By the way, I stand by my statement that many people do not think that the eradication of homosexuality in UG is possible. Some kind of ‘covering up’ of the reality might be possible, I suppose … as has been the case in the past. Most of my UG friends and contacts think that any attempt to either ‘eradicate’ or ‘cover up’ would actually be undesirable, as it could undermine development towards a more established and stable civic society. ‘Eradication’ would certainly require the kinds of brutal methods, and /or lawlessness, that are simply not consistent with any kind of properly-functioning democracy.

  • Maazi NCO

    The $64,000 question is what ‘different bill’ might be proposed, and how any new proposal might be viewed by donor countries such as Canada, Sweden, etc.

    The revised Bahati Bill shall become law. Now, can I have the $64,000?

    Your citing of ‘gayism’ as some kind of political movement or philosophy is frankly the stuff of cheap rhetoric.

    It is a well-organized and well-funded movement. You know it and I know it. No need to lie about it.

    Has it not occured to you that the kind of political context that spawns Bahati Bills [which are inherently totalitarian in nature] is not one in which free and fair elections are likely?

    In other words, India was not a democracy prior to 2009 Delhi High Court decision on sodomy laws there (Well, the jury is still out on whether the high court verdict will be permanent since the Indian supreme court is yet to give final ruling on the matter.) Botswana and Ghana are not democracies because they criminalize gayism? Trinidad & Tobago is no longer democratic since buggery between two males is a criminal offence? China is now a democracy because gayism is legal activity there since 1997. Prior to 1967 legalization of sodomy, England was a totalitarian entity not a democracy? There is no correlation between democracy and tolerance of gayism.

    What sets the situation in UG apart is that NEW, and almost uniquely savage, legislation was being proposed by Bahati, with the probable backing of his ‘political sugar daddy’, Buturo.

    Nothing sets Uganda apart from other nations in other regions of the world that criminalize gayism except that it as an African nation. If United Arab Emirates which already punishes sodomy severely wrote a bill similar to that of Uganda with death penalty, nothing will happen beyond mere verbal condemnation from Western governments pursuing voters who engage in sodomy. Uganda is different because it is an Africa. Westerners perceive that it would be easier to bully and blackmail African nations.

  • Maazi NCO

    By the way, I stand by my statement that many people do not think that the eradication of homosexuality in UG is possible. Some kind of ‘covering up’ of the reality might be possible, I suppose … as has been the case in the past. Most of my UG friends and contacts think that any attempt to either ‘eradicate’ or ‘cover up’ would actually be undesirable, as it could undermine development towards a more established and stable civic society. ‘Eradication’ would certainly require the kinds of brutal methods, and /or lawlessness, that are simply not consistent with any kind of properly-functioning democracy.

    What a joke….

  • Richard Willmer

    I think you’ve not understood the full implications of the Bahati Bill. Remember also that is easier to stop new unjust laws being enacted than it is to overturn existing ones, hence the interest in the Ugandan situation.

    Why is the idea that some Ugandans oppose brutal and repressive treatment of their compatriots a joke? What are saying about Ugandans here? I think you may be becoming a little overexcited.

  • Maazi NCO

    My contacts are in a position to know what’s happening; like you, they’re not stupid, nor are they starry-eyed optimists.Well, we’ll see … not least because we’ll keep watching closely!

    Keep watching until your eyes strain. Let your contacts —or shall I say spies—continue watching as well. When the Ugandan State is ready, proper action against gayism will be taken as it was back in 2005 when “same-sex marriage” was dealt with decisively in the constitution despite howls of disapproval from Western NGOs and governments.

  • Richard Willmer

    The main point is, while you have said much, you have not given any kind of objective moral justification for your proposed treatment of people like GUg, your fellow Ugandan.

  • Richard Willmer

    You’ve not answered my question about the alleged ‘joke’. You’re simply repeating your assertion that you will be proved right.

    By the way, what methods do you favour in your attempt to ‘eradicate’ homosexuality? You’ve said it will be done (that is a joke – albeit a sick one), but not said how.

  • Maazi NCO

    The main point is, while you have said much, you have not given any kind of objective moral justification for your proposed treatment of people like GUg, your fellow Ugandan.

    Gayism is incompatible with the culture and traditions of our communal society which is massively different from your highly individualistic society where everyone is encouraged to strictly mind their own business; where family is fragmented, chaotic and counts for nothing. It is also in the public health interest to keep sodomy properly banned to make sure HIV infection rates do not go exponential from the current 6% largely attributable to normal “man-and- woman” sexual relations. Even the NHS which bans sodomites from blood donation will probably understand our views on this matter.

  • Maazi NCO

    By the way, what methods do you favour in your attempt to ‘eradicate’ homosexuality? You’ve said it will be done (that is a joke – albeit a sick one), but not said how

    .

    I never said anything about “eradication” of gayism. Please do not put words into my mouth. Like any other crime, gayism cannot be eradicated, it can only be discouraged or contained. Without further elaboration, a well-revised Bahati Bill will do just that.

  • Richard Willmer

    I don’t think your answer is ‘objective’, as it cites ‘culture’, which is a relative and dynamic concept.

    More importantly, you have not answered the question I asked you, which was a request for a moral justification of your proposed ‘treatment’ (which you have yet to specify, by the way, despite my request) of your gay compatriots.

    (The question you answered was why you do not approve of homosexuality – but I didn’t ask that question, since I already know the answer to it.)

    Your statement that ‘family counts for nothing’ in Britain is more cheap anti-western rhetoric. I could, at this point, make some observations of my own about ‘side-dishes’, but I won’t. Furthermore, you have admitted (correctly, and for a second time in this thread) that heterosexual intercourse is the principal mode of transmission of HIV in UG, so suddenly talking about gays in this respect is something of a nonsequetor in this context.

  • Richard Willmer

    Just seen your latest post – glad to see that you too understand that ‘eradication’ of homosexulaity is not possible. I would go further, of course, and say that it was not desirable to attempt it.

  • Richard Willmer

    Anyway, Maazi – thank you for an interesting ‘contest’. I must get some sleep now, but I’m sure we will resume our dialogue in the near future.

    Goodnight.

  • Maazi NCO

    I don’t think your answer is ‘objective’, as it cites ‘culture’, which is a relative and dynamic concept.

    More importantly, you have not answered the question I asked you, which was a request for a moral justification of your proposed ‘treatment’ (which you have yet to specify, by the way, despite my request) of your gay compatriots.

    (The question you answered was why you do not approve of homosexuality – but I didn’t ask that question, since I already know the answer to it.)

    Your statement that ‘family counts for nothing’ in Britain is more cheap anti-western rhetoric. I could, at this point, make some observations of my own about ‘side-dishes’, but I won’t. Furthermore, you have admitted (correctly, and for a second time in this thread) that heterosexual intercourse is the principal mode of transmission of HIV in UG, so suddenly talking about gays in this respect is something of a nonsequetor in this context.

    Richard,

    You are entitled to your opinions based on western culture. I am entitled to mine based on African culture and moral values. Gayism will not be permitted breathing space in our continent.

  • Richard Willmer

    You’ve still not answered my question, which concerns how people should be treated.

    Maybe tomorrow.

    Bye for now.

  • Maazi NCO

    You’ve still not answered my question, which concerns how people should be treated.

    As a matter-of-fact, I have. You just don’t want to listen. But you will be compelled to listen by the course of events in the near future.

    Furthermore, you have admitted (correctly, and for a second time in this thread) that heterosexual intercourse is the principal mode of transmission of HIV in UG, so suddenly talking about gays in this respect is something of a nonsequetor in this context.

    Are you deliberately being obtuse? Gayism is the greatest vector of HIV/AIDS in the West, hence the blood donation ban on sodomites in the otherwise gay-friendly West. A recent report from WHO praised Africa for declining infection rates while expressing concern about the rise in HIV infection rates among sodomites and intravenous drug users in the West. What I am saying is that the Ugandan State will not complicate the situation on the ground with regards to HIV/AIDS by allowing the growth of gayism which is guaranteed to cause an explosion in infection rates.

  • Richard Willmer

    Never mind … I was referring to your earlier comments to GUg telling him that wanted him to be ‘gone’, or whatever, and asking you to justify those.

    Do I understand that, if the persecution of gay people in UG were stopped, you believe that many Ugandans would suddenly CHOOSE to be gay? (Hasn’t happened here in Britain since 1967, as far as anyone can tell.)

    One of the most damaging ‘public health’ scenarios must surely be that in which a gay person is ‘forced’ to marry, but is having ‘random’ secret affairs on the side. Greater openness and honesty about human sexuality would help to avoid this. ‘Sexual secrecy’ and hypocrisy are two of HIV’s biggest allies, IMHO.

  • Richard Willmer

    One more thing: I thought the HIV infection rate were starting to RISE again in UG … principally as a result of unfaithful husbands, it is suggested. (You’ve agreed with this suggestion already, by the way.)

    Obviously, the change from ‘ABC’ to ‘AB’ (pushed by, among others, Martin Ssempa) may have contributed to the recent cited reversal in UG’s otherwise laudable achievement.

    Another point: your use of the term ‘sodomite’ shows that you haven’t read and/or understood the story of Sodom & Gomorrah properly. Read it again, then ask yourself this question “it is truthful and just to call people like GUg a ‘sodomite’?”

  • Richard Willmer

    Well, to summarise my view on HIV: an open, honest and fair-minded approach to issues in human sexuality is a vital component in the fight against HIV/AIDS. The WHO report you cite notwithstanding, I think the WHO would agree with me on this point (hence the concern they have expressed over the Bahati Bill).

    On the story of Sodom & Gomorrah: it is of course (attempted) ‘gang rape’ that is cited as the ‘trigger’ for their destruction.

    Moving on …

    You are clearly intelligent and well read, and consider (maybe rightly) yourself well informed.

    The CNN interview with GUg took place in the wake of the publication of the ‘Rolling Stone’. Would you like to give us your opinion on who was really behind the libellous article in that ‘newspaper’?

  • Richard Willmer

    Back to the WHO for a moment: they oppose the criminalisation of LGBT persons, as we all know.

    http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/87/11/09-071175/en/index.html

    Right … Rolling Stone: I’m all ears, Maazi! (I’m sure you’ve got interesting stuff to sya on this topic.)

  • Maazi NCO

    Richard Willmer,

    All international organizations, where Westerners control decision-making, are opposed to criminalization of gay sex. There is nothing new about that. The WHO article reads like a propaganda piece written by a gay lobby group rather than a global health organization. Sample an excerpt from the WHO article—-

    [Gays] want to contribute to society through their work and their spiritual lives. However, many feel that they need to hide their sexuality from their colleagues, friends and congregations.

    Very pathetic !! Is this what a person is supposed to find on a health website?!! Did the authorities at WHO hire GayUganda to act as their chief press officer?

    With regards to your question as to who is behind the upstart tabloid that have been giving you Western chaps irritable bowel syndrome, I will say this—-

    It could be anybody. It could be Hillary Clinton, the late Ronnie Reagan or former President George Walker Bush or even the Euro-American gay lobby. It is entirely possible that the editor Giles Muhame is the person behind the tabloid called Rolling Stone.

  • Richard Willmer

    I see you’re now resorting to insults and pettiness … a sign that this dialogue is probably not worth continuing. My bowels are working wonderfully, by the way – never been better!

    Many gay people in UG are actually very ‘economically productive’, not contributing to the population explosion that worries some UG economists so much, and not putting undue pressure on, for example, the school system by having overly-large families. They could prove a great asset to western countries(paying taxes but not using social services) if forced to leave … like the UG Asians before them (whose departure was one reason for big drop in the per capita GDP of UG in the 1970s).

    I note that we have agreed on two things:-

    1. ‘eradicating’ homosexuality from UG is an unattainable goal (and, in my view, undesirable), and

    2. the probable main cause of the recent rise in HIV transmission in UG is unfaithful husbands infecting their wives.

    Anyway, it has been an interesting discussion. Thank you for that. Feel free to think about some of the things we’ve been saying. Over and out!

  • Maazi NCO

    My bowels are working wonderfully, by the way – never been better!

    I will take your word for it.

    Many gay people in UG are actually very ‘economically productive’, not contributing to the population explosion that worries some UG economists so much…..

    Did you just make that up? I am sure that Ugandan economists do not hold sex deviants up as a solution to so-called “population explosion”. In any case, a large population can be an asset in terms of market size that can attract foreign investment or a liability in terms of the inability of the State to attend to the needs of its large citizenry. Population being an asset (as is the case of China) or a liability depends on the resourcefulness and visionary leadership of the government.

    They could prove a great asset to western countries(paying taxes but not using social services) if forced to leave

    You can have the sex deviants. I am sure they will add “colour” and diversity to the largely monochrome population of gay sex practitioners in the UK.

    … like the UG Asians before them (whose departure was one reason for big drop in the per capita GDP of UG in the 1970s).

    Many of the Ugandan Asians are back. In fact, one of them is currently a Member of Parliament. There is no basis for your comparison of a racial group with a group of individuals who insist on engaging in sex crimes.

    Anyway, it has been an interesting discussion. Thank you for that.

    You are welcome. Good Bye.

  • Richard Willmer

    At least we have agreed on two things:-

    1. ‘eradicating’ homosexuality from UG is an unattainable goal (and, in my view, undesirable), and

    2. the probable main cause of the recent rise in HIV transmission in UG is unfaithful husbands infecting their wives.

    Bye.

  • Richard Willmer

    I cannot resist the temptation of pointing out that, at 5.15am ET on 10 Nov., the WHO was cited as an authority, whereas at 4.12pm on the same day, it was contemptuously dismissed as ‘western’ by the same person!

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi? Still with us? What’s your view on the WHO today?! (Sorry, I should have said ‘at this hour’, as your view changed dramatically WITHIN the same day last week.)

  • Maazi NCO

    Maazi? Still with us? What’s your view on the WHO today?! (Sorry, I should have said ‘at this hour’, as your view changed dramatically WITHIN the same day last week.)

    My view has never changed on any subject matter discussed in this blog. What you mistake for “dramatic changes” is probably the expression of my nuanced views on how gayism should be tackled. I do not wish to continue this particular thread anymore. Perhaps, you should now turn your attention to the new article on the upstart tabloid in Uganda which seems to be better read by you people in the West than the Ugandan people. Come to think of it——Warren has read the tabloid story ahead of me !!!!

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    You expressed to very different views with repsect to the WHO. The record is perfectly clear on that.

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    You expressed two very different views with respect to the WHO. The record is perfectly clear on that.

    (Apologies for the typos.)


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