David Bahati on Canadian radio

Listen here…

He is giving a consistent narrative to what he told me last week.

He also told me that China and other countries are watching what they do.

In this interview with the CBC, he said the bill is next up for consideration. I doubt it gets action this week or next however, as they go on recess on Nov. 25.

He also says in this interview that gays reduce their lives by up to 20 years (thanks Paul Cameron and Scott Lively). 

He misleads again on the purpose of the death penalty. The law in 2007 does not specify the sex of the perpetrator and the bill now does not limit the punishments to defilement.

Bahati also quotes the Bible and says he has encouragement from the US and the UK, but they do not want to be quoted.

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  • http://www.leonardoricardosanto.blogspot.com leonardo ricardo

    Let´s see now–Anglican, don´t forget that part because his ¨spiritual director¨ is Anglican Archbishop, ex-communicate Bishop Ssenyonjo, Henry Luke Orombi, MP David Bahati is concerned about LGBTI people dieing 20 years less than heterosexuals? So he has subimitted his ¨kill–all–the–Gays¨ Bill to speed that up? Really, it´s hard not to sputter and swear at the junk that comes out of this cowardly mans mouth. China´s watching? The World is watching Bahati, Buturo, Orombi and Museveni make you-know-what´s of themselves!

  • Maazi NCO

    Warren,

    Thanks for providing this information. Very Nice.

  • Lynn David

    Bahati also quotes the Bible and says he has encouragement from the US and the UK, but they do not want to be quoted.

    Fischer, Perkins, LaBarbera, the Phelps clan…..

    Certainly not most mainline Christian churches. The policy of the Roman Catholic Church is that homosexuality should be decriminalized.

  • balugiire ronald

    Guys, stop the misleading hullabaloo about the bill.Bahati does represent the aspirations of Ugandans and not his own ideology.If you are to crucify the architects of the anti sodomy bill, then you are misguided when you witch hunt Bahati or Dr Ssempa.Come and face the people of Uganda because what Bahati is saying is what we stand for.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton Warren

      ronald – what is misleading?

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    If you think the Bahati Bill is ‘very nice’, I think it is time for Warren to block you.

    Thinking the Bahati Bill is ‘very nice’ is tantamount to supporting mass murder.

    Also, if you are in UK (as I suspect you are), thinking the Bahati Bill is ‘very nice’ is probably legally problematic for the reason I’ve alluded to above.

  • Richard Willmer

    It must be pointed out that there are many good Ugandans, gay and straight, who hate Bahatiism, and recognise its intrinsically totalitarian character.

  • Keith

    Come and face the people of Uganda because what Bahati is saying is what we stand for.

    Ronald, Ugandan’s do not stand for a bill that means they will have to go to jail because their brothers, sisters or children may be gay with out them even knowing it. . We are not that dumb.

  • Richard Willmer

    I suspect Keith is one of very many Ugandans who think this way. In fact, I KNOW this is the case.

  • Namanda Diana

    No Keith we dont all believe in massive murder like Bahati. Actually the same bible his quoting advocates to love one another.

  • Timothy Kincaid

    Richard

    If you think the Bahati Bill is ‘very nice’, I think it is time for Warren to block you.

    I disagree. Sometimes we can get complacent and forget that there is real evil in the world.

    We must recall that there are those who support the murder of innocents and justify it by an appeal to religion and tradition. There truly are monsters in human form, and we need to be reminded of it from time to time.

  • Maazi NCO

    Ronald, Ugandan’s do not stand for a bill that means they will have to go to jail because their brothers, sisters or children may be gay with out them even knowing it. . We are not that dumb.

    Keith,

    Your comment is accurate only to the extent that Ugandans do not support death penalty and other extreme provisions inside the original Bahati Bill introduced in October 2009. By and large, the Ugandan people want some form of action to be taken against militant gay activism in the country. The debate in Uganda is on the scope and severity of the punishment not on whether gayism should remain criminalized or be decriminalized. If you are really Ugandan—not some impostor—you will know that already.

    Maazi

    If you think the Bahati Bill is ‘very nice’, I think it is time for Warren to block you.

    Thinking the Bahati Bill is ‘very nice’ is tantamount to supporting mass murder.

    Also, if you are in UK (as I suspect you are), thinking the Bahati Bill is ‘very nice’ is probably legally problematic for the reason I’ve alluded to above.

    Richard,

    Are you intelligent at all? If you cannot understand the meaning of what I wrote, then kindly return to primary school for tutorials on reading comprehension in the English Language.

    Also, if you are in UK (as I suspect you are)

    Keep day-dreaming along with your buddy, Stephen.

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    I think the usefulness of any dialogue between us is now exhausted.

    Keith, Diana

    I think many in UG think as you do. Hunting down gay epople and their supporters is just not what many Ugandans want.

  • Maazi NCO

    We must recall that there are those who support the murder of innocents and justify it by an appeal to religion and tradition. There truly are monsters in human form, and we need to be reminded of it from time to time.

    Timothy,

    You are a true Euro-American gay propagandist. I will give you that much. Unfortunately, misrepresenting my nuanced opinion and that of the vast majority of Ugandans on the Bahati Bill will not get you any closer to success. You and your friends think that draping the vast majority of Ugandans who want gayism punished with the Flag of Nazi Germany will bring you success. You keep forgetting that propaganda has its limitations. Time will soon tell that your tactics is completely useless and counter-productive.

  • Maazi NCO

    Keith, Diana

    I think many in UG think as you do. Hunting down gay epople and their supporters is just not what many Ugandans want.

    Richard Willmer,

    I concur with what you have written only if the word “hunt down” refers to death penalty or vigilante violence. Most Ugandans think such extreme measures are unacceptable. However, most Ugandans think that gayism is a sex crime which should be punished properly with an appropriate prison sentence.

    Maazi

    I think the usefulness of any dialogue between us is now exhausted.

    Of course, it is exhausted if your mission was to impose your views on me. The Republic of Uganda is a sovereign state and will take decisions like one. You and your government shall not exercise the right of veto over our parliament. If it makes you sleep better at night, pressure that FCO official— who you begged to go on a fruitless search for me— to get Her Majesty’s Government to withdraw the pennies which you chaps hand over as donor aid.

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    I’m not searching for you, I’m merely trying to understand why you, a self-declared enemy of the West, are currently resident in the UK.

    I’m not imposing anything on you, just arguing with you: stop being such a baby!

    Throwing people into jail for consensual sexual acts is not exactly a nic ething to do. Are you married? If not, are you a virgin?

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    By the way, the FCO official I’ve been talking with is not interested in you at all as far as I know. He may not even be aware of your existence.

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    If you’re in London, perhaps you’d like to meet up and talk over lunch?

  • http://www.leonardoricardosanto.blogspot.com leonardo ricardo

    Guys, stop the misleading hullabaloo about the bill.Bahati does represent the aspirations of Ugandans —

    Of course he does and of course Buturo does and of course, Ssempa does and of course Orombi does–we aren´t stupid, we get the point–we realize that these not-so-gents perpetrated great loathing and anger against us–sure, ignorance was always there regarding LGBTI people in Uganda but these men, and they are men, are thriving off of fear and hate-mongering–actually, Bahati has made a place for himself by demonizing others to the maximum…Lord have mercy on your irresponsible, hateful and greedy codependent souls!

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Leonardo

    Bahati and Co. represent the aspirations of SOME Ugandans. I know plenty of Ugandans who despise Bahatiism and all its works.

  • Richard Willmer

    Interesting that the extremist bible-bashing Bahati is, he claims, cosying

    up to an atheistic regime (as well as a bunch of muslim states). Is he a little confused, perhaps? Hmmmm.

    China might well be genuinely interested in UG once the oil starts to flow in meaningful quantities (2015?). I’m sure they’d drive a very hard bargain for that oil, a bargain that would include a strong element of political influence, I reckon.

  • Timothy Kincaid

    Unfortunately for Maazi and the hate brigade, China is very slowing starting to accept their gay citizens. Yes, they are far behind the West, but homosexuality is legal in China and they prefer to kill political dissidents rather than gay folk.

    Interesting story about Mama Wu

  • Maazi NCO

    Maazi

    If you’re in London, perhaps you’d like to meet up and talk over lunch?

    Richard Willmer,

    I am not in the UK. But thanks for the invitation.

    Unfortunately for Maazi and the hate brigade, China is very slowing starting to accept their gay citizens. Yes, they are far behind the West, but homosexuality is legal in China and they prefer to kill political dissidents rather than gay folk.

    Timothy,

    Let me get this straight—- you don’t care a damn if political dissidents are

    killed in China provided sodomites are left alone to engage in aberrant sexual activity? Anyway, I am not disappointed by your comments—–after all, the Euro-American Gay Lobby is a single-issue organization. People can die in wars or be cut down by bullets from a communist regime and you will not be bothered, unless if that regime makes the “mistake” of prosecuting two men who engage in aberrant sexual activity.

    BTW, in China and many parts of East and Southeast Asia, gayism may be a legal activity, but it is largely rejected by society. This can be seen from China’s consistent opposition to attempts by Western nations to use organs of the United Nations to impose “gay rights” on the whole world. Vietnam is one example of a nation where this behaviour is legal, but overwhelmingly rejected by society. Even in liberal Japan where gayism is legally protected—but is largely tabooed by society—no major politician wants to be caught dead promoting “gay issues”. In Singapore, Malaysia and parts of Indonesia, sodomy remains a criminal offence.

  • Maazi NCO

    Of course he does and of course Buturo does and of course, Ssempa does and of course Orombi does–we aren´t stupid, we get the point–we realize that these not-so-gents perpetrated great loathing and anger against us–sure, ignorance was always there regarding LGBTI people in Uganda but these men, and they are men, are thriving off of fear and hate-mongering–actually, Bahati has made a place for himself by demonizing others to the maximum…Lord have mercy on your irresponsible, hateful and greedy codependent souls!

    Is this the lyrics to a new gay gangster rap song you are working on?

  • Maazi NCO

    Interesting story about Mama Wu

    What has this got to do with the Ugandan people? Are you planning to clone this Chinese woman and send her to our nation to work as a missionary for the euro-american gay lobby? It seems to me that you are desperately looking for pro-gay stories that will help soothe your anguish at the refusal of the African people to bow to Western demands that they abandon their culture and traditions in favour of the chaotic socially liberal lifestyles of the West.

  • Lynn David

    Maazi…. Let me get this straight—- you don’t care a damn if political dissidents are killed in China provided sodomites are left alone to engage in aberrant sexual activity? Anyway, I am not disappointed by your comments—–after all, the Euro-American Gay Lobby is a single-issue organization. People can die in wars or be cut down by bullets from a communist regime and you will not be bothered, unless if that regime makes the “mistake” of prosecuting two men who engage in aberrant sexual activity.

    Really meaningless straw-man, Maazi.

    After that diatribe, however, one might ask why the Ugandan leadership is so intent on getting in bed with the Chinese concerning the Albertine Basin oil. In point of fact, I know why.

  • Richard Willmer

    Indeed, I reckon the Chinese are far more interested in oil, than in Bahati.

    I doubt the Chinese are too bothered whether or not the Bill is passed.

  • Lynn David

    Uganda actually has a rather practical reason for wanting a Chinese company involved. First, the Chinese are keen on paying top dollar for oil. And second, Albertine Basin oil is waxy and certain Chinese oil companies, like the Chinese National Offshore Oil Corporation – CNOOC, have experience in refining such oils. Museveni wants a refinery for Uganda to supply the country, but also some of the surrounding countries. Though the oil companies are more inclined on putting in a pipeline and exporting the oil through Kenya.

    But I think M7 might already have a deal with the CNOOC; he met with the CEO of the company back in January. Last I heard his own country is holding up the finalization of that deal. Tullow Oil of Ireland/UK now holds most of the concessions having bought out Heritage Oil of Alberta, Canada. But Uganda has been holding up the sale to CNOOC due to a capital gains tax squabble with Heritage Oil over the sale to Tullow. The case had been in the courts of Uganda; but now Museveni is demanding Tullow pay the $283 million which Heritage Oil owes. But forcing a buyer to pay a capital gains tax isn’t exactly legal, even in Uganda, though Museveni might think he is the law in that respect.

    Tullow was then to sell a half share in its holdings to CNOOC and Total SA, a French firm, was supposedly to go in with the Chinese. That was decided back in February of this year. The Italian company Eni was also seeking to get into the play (by buying out Heritage) and Uganda was backing that; but a Tullow-Heritage agreement to sell out to each other forestalled that sale. And that might be why Museveni is trying to bully Tullow into paying Heritage’s capital gains tax.

  • Richard Willmer

    Interesting. I was aware of some of this (the little tussle with Tullow), but not the whole story.

  • Maazi NCO

    Museveni is demanding Tullow pay the $283 million which Heritage Oil owes. But forcing a buyer to pay a capital gains tax isn’t exactly legal, even in Uganda, though Museveni might think he is the law in that respect.

    You have no idea what you are talking about. Capital Gains Tax is legal in Uganda and covered by our parliament’s 1997 Income Tax Act which came into operation on April 1, 1998.

    First, the Chinese are keen on paying top dollar for oil. And second, Albertine Basin oil is waxy and certain Chinese oil companies, like the Chinese National Offshore Oil Corporation – CNOOC, have experience in refining such oils

    There is nothing wrong with wanting top dollar for your product. Unfortunately, I foresee serious leakages from Uganda’s national coffers due to the entrenched corruption of our political elite. However, despite such leakages, the crude oil revenue should strengthen our nation’s mixed economy and boost GDP growth. There is potential for local Ugandan oil services firms to spring up to supply service to the Multinationals. We should not make the mistake of the Nigerians by NOT insisting that the big oil companies should use Ugandans in specific tasks where local skills are available rather than import personnel from their own countries to perform jobs our people can do.

  • Maazi NCO

    Museveni is demanding Tullow pay the $283 million which Heritage Oil owes.

    Might I add that while it is unfortunate that Ugandan government’s secrecy over the oil deals contributed to Heritage Oil’s duplicity, it is not forgone conclusion that the money owed the country cannot be retrieved.

    The Ugandan government can enact “policy instruments” that will ensure that when Tullow Oil does pay the Capital Gains Tax liability it inherited along with assets from Heritage Oil, it does not recoup that same amount of money via the Production Sharing Agreements (PSA). If Tullow doesn’t accept a fairer deal in the national interest then drastic measures should be applied. After all, no one forced the Anglo-Irish company to engage in secretive deals with Heritage Oil.

  • Richard Willmer

    Interesting stuff.

  • Lynn David

    Maazi…. You have no idea what you are talking about. Capital Gains Tax is legal in Uganda and covered by our parliament’s 1997 Income Tax Act which came into operation on April 1, 1998.

    I didn’t say capital gains taxes did not exist in Uganda. I said making the buyer of a stock, property, or oil concession, pay the tax would be illegal. Your constant allusion to “you have no idea what you are talking about” is getting to be tiresome as well as most often wrong.

    The Ugandan government can enact “policy instruments” that will ensure that when Tullow Oil does pay the Capital Gains Tax liability it inherited along with assets from Heritage Oil, it does not recoup that same amount of money via the Production Sharing Agreements (PSA). If Tullow doesn’t accept a fairer deal in the national interest then drastic measures should be applied. After all, no one forced the Anglo-Irish company to engage in secretive deals with Heritage Oil.

    What was secret about the deal Heritage and Tullow had about the concessions? I’ve known about it even before Heritage sold out to Tullow. Companies make agreements, it happens all the time. The joint agreement between Tullow and Heritage to sell out to each other was a fitting contract. Selling a concession to a high bidder should give that bidder the right to dispose of the value of its holdings in that concession to another. Heritage assumed a risk in taking on such a concession and is well due the profit from its sale. As Hertage is also liable for the capital gains tax – not Tullow.

    .

    Just how does a buyer inherit a capital gains liability? That’s just silly. Heritage has the money, the profit which is to be taxed. I am sure that any such “policy instrument” concerning Tullow that might be enacted by the Ugandan parliament will be taken to the high court in Uganda by Tullow. And I doubt such will stand up to scrutiny as it means Uganda is going back on its contractual agreements in the concessions.

    There is potential for local Ugandan oil services firms to spring up to supply service to the Multinationals. We should not make the mistake of the Nigerians by NOT insisting that the big oil companies should use Ugandans in specific tasks where local skills are available rather than import personnel from their own countries to perform jobs our people can do.

    I agree – to a point. Hiring skilled workers is one thing, but oil services companies are often another. Oil companies prefer to go with those companies with proven technologies. I would imagine that you will see the more of the likes of Halliburton and Schlumberger setting up offices in Uganda. As I understand it, both of those companies already have Ugandan offices. I’ve seen advertisements in the petroleum news publications for jobs in Uganda with Schlumberger.

  • Maazi NCO

    I am sure that any such “policy instrument” concerning Tullow that might be enacted by the Ugandan parliament will be taken to the high court in Uganda by Tullow. And I doubt such will stand up to scrutiny as it means Uganda is going back on its contractual agreements in the concessions.

    Oh yes, the courts :-). If the “policy instrument” of the Ugandan State is as strong and sophisticated as I think it should be then Tullow will find out that it is better to pay its liability (i.e. capital gains tax) than proceed to the courts. BTW, similar “policy instruments” have been applied elsewhere with good results. Examples include Argentina’s defiance of IMF by refusing to service its debts when its economy was in shambles, Russia’s screwing of the valves on crude oil and gas pipelines supplying energy to the EU and China’s containment of Australia and Japan on mining business deals and rare earth metals trade respectively.

  • Maazi NCO

    agree – to a point. Hiring skilled workers is one thing, but oil services companies are often another. Oil companies prefer to go with those companies with proven technologies. I would imagine that you will see the more of the likes of Halliburton and Schlumberger setting up offices in Uganda. As I understand it, both of those companies already have Ugandan offices. I’ve seen advertisements in the petroleum news publications for jobs in Uganda with Schlumberger.

    A bill should be passed into law so that Ugandans are gainfully employed by these foreign companies. Such a bill should make provisions for technology transfer and skills transfer to locals and establish a limit to the importation of foreign personnel (except in cases of skill shortages). Even the Nigerians are set to pass a similar bill soon to the chagrain of Multinationals. We should follow suit.

  • Lynn David

    Such a bill should make provisions for technology transfer and skills transfer to locals …

    You want a company’s proprietary technology transfered to individuals in Uganda? That is state-based theft of any technology by a business. Are you sure you aren’t a communist yourself/

  • Lynn David

    If the “policy instrument” of the Ugandan State is as strong and sophisticated as I think it should be then Tullow will find out that it is better to pay its liability (i.e. capital gains tax)

    I guess you are communistic, considering that the capital gains tax is not Tullow’s liability, but that of Heritage.

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    Two questions:-

    1. Are you actually going to show us these UNESCO / WHO leaflets that you claim constitute so-called ‘recruitment’?

    2. You claim that a revised Bill will be passed. What will be its key features, do you think (you seem very well-informed)? Which of the current clauses (19 at present, I recall) are likely to be dropped? Which will be retained unaltered? Which will be changed?

    (Obviously I understand, from our previous discussions, that we both agree on the following points:-

    i. There are already laws protecting underage persons, both boys and girls, from sexual abuse;

    ii. Homosexuality is, and will remain, a ‘fact of life’ in Uganda;

    iii. The recent rise in HIV transmissions in UG is primarily due to marital unfaithfulness.)

  • BALUGGIRE RONALD

    What is misleading is that Warren has failed gravely to tell the world about the basic implications of the bill and to whom.The bill, like the current defilement law, calls for the execution of pidofiles who rape boys like the trend has been in our local schools.

    What warren and his sympathisers are doing is to play emotional games by telling the world that Uganda wants to kill homosexuals.Can you cite for me any homosexual that has ever been kiled in Uganda?

    Warren, this neo-colonial movement has to stop.You can not sit under the confort of your air conditioned house and begin appointing yourself as the grand architect of our destiny as a nation.Seldom do we as Uganda ever infringe in the democratic process of your country.Thanks

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton Warren

      Ronald – Have you read the Anti-Homosexuality Bill? I have made it available to all to read and that speaks for itself. And let’s recall that Ugandan law already covers defilement of boys by men. At least one such man is currently being prosecuted on that basis.

      Also, what should the world take from headlines in a Ugandan tabloid that say, “Hang Them?” And since these young men who are the editors of the paper are students at the premiere university in your country and members of the Makerere Community Church pastored by Martin Ssempa, a prominent pastor there, should we not assume that at least some mainstream elements want to kill homosexuals? Let’s not forget that the mover of the Anti-Homosexuality Bill spoke approvingly about the Hang Them campaign.