Bahati criticizes conference ban

As I noted yesterday, David Bahati, currently in Washington DC representing the Ugandan Parliament, was barred from entrance to a conference on financial management hosted by the International Consortium of Governmental Financial Management.

ICGFM spokesman, Doug Hadden, told me that Bahati “arrived mid-morning and was informed of the decision [to bar him from the conference]. There was a frank but calm discussion and Mr. Bahati was not able to enter the building.”

Contacted by email, Mr. Bahati said the ICGFM’s action “has exposed the level of intolerance that is inconsistent with the values of American people.” He added, “My resolve to defend the future of our children and the traditional family in Uganda is intact.”

Bahati’s statement is nearly identical to one made to the Uganda Daily Monitor today. The Monitor article added

The other MPs attending the conference are Ms Grace Kyomugisha (UPDF), Mr Gaud Kabondo (Bunyaruguru), Mr William Nsubuga (Buvuma) and Sarah Nyombi (Ntejeru North).

The Uganda delegation later met the Deputy Assistant of Secretary of State Bureau of African Affairs, Ms Karl Wycoff, and raised the matter.

According to a posting on Jeff Sharlet’s C-Street Facebook page, there may be a clue about some American support for Bahati’s work.

Uganda’s leading anti-gay campaigner, Family man David Bahati, is in the U.S. He wanted to talk to Rachel Maddow, so I hooked him up. Her interview with Bahati will be on the show tonight. Interesting side note: He’s being escorted to media appointments by a recently retired senior Department of Education official whom… he met through the man’s Ugandan missionary work with an anti-gay Anglican religious movement.

Developing…
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  • Richard Willmer

    Bahati shows a level of intolerance that is inconsistent with … anybody who is vaguely decent! What a hypocrite!

    Let’s hear from him:

    http://politifi.com/news/Ugandas-David-Bahati-tells-author-Jeff-Sharlet-that-he-would-kill-every-last-gay-person-1290736.html

    He is consumed with lust for mass murder.

  • Richard Willmer

    Conference organisers say to Bahati: “You can’t come in.”

    Bahati says to gay people: “I want to kill you all.”

    Which is more ‘intolerant’? (Bahati thinks it’s the first; the rest of [civilised] world would probably choose the second!!!!)

  • Lynn David

    I could see barring Bahati from something like the Fellowship-sponsored prayer breakfast. That spoke to a theological/idealogical difference of opinion about the those freedoms due all mankind (especially as Christians do/should see them). However, I do not see the point behind this. They might as well had barred the entire Ugandan delegation or any other country’s delegation (such as Saudi Arabia) which does not provide the full spectrum of human liberties to their citizens.

  • Lynn David

    That’s what I get for changing my mind mid-sentence…. but not changing the wording.

    I could see barring Bahati from something like the Fellowship-sponsored prayer breakfast. That spoke to a theological/idealogical difference of opinion about those freedoms due all mankind (especially as Christians do/should see them). However, I do not see the point behind this. They might as well had barred the entire Ugandan delegation or any other country’s delegation (such as Saudi Arabia) which does not provide the full spectrum of human liberties to their citizens.

  • Wendy Leigh

    The Ugandan Hitler is Leviticus hypocriticus. All this homo-hate coming from a man wearing mixed fibers and trims his temple hairs. Tsk Tsk

  • Richard Willmer

    NOTHING in the New Vision (the Government paper). Interesting …

    But there is something else about B. (dated 22/11/2010), which was also reported in the Monitor. Also interesting …

  • Maazi NCO

    You lot are funny people. Do you think that insulting David Bahati or the rest of the Ugandan people will change our views on gayism? Whether you like it or not, the Ugandan people’s voice will prevail inside Uganda. Your opinions will not move us a single inch from passing the law. As you chaps are blathering about, the bill is under-going serious review to strip it of its crude, absurd and extreme provisions. When the Parliament is ready, a thoroughly revised bill shall become law and there is nothing you can do about it. Go and bully Saudi Arabia, UAE, Malaysia next !!

  • Maazi NCO

    Bahati shows a level of intolerance that is inconsistent with … anybody who is vaguely decent! What a hypocrite!

    Let’s hear from him:

    http://politifi.com/news/Ugandas-David-Bahati-tells-author-Jeff-Sharlet-that-he-would-kill-every-last-gay-person-1290736.html

    He is consumed with lust for mass murder.

    That is what Jeff Sharlet has alleged. It is an allegation until proven otherwise. I don’t think Bahati will ever use such crude words. This Jeff Sharlet has lied and lied and lied yet again, let him post a video or audio recording in which Bahati claimed he wanted to kill all gay sex practitioners. Or peharps, Jeff is preparing the grounds for a new fictional book for gay obssessed Westerners to be called “Third Reich—David Bahati, The [Addams] Family Man Who Has the Final Solution To Gays”

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    Do you yet have any ‘evidence’ for the systematic ‘recruitment’ you claim takes place?

    As for ‘obsessions’: I think it’s better to be obsessed with human rights than with murder.

    Anyway, are you ever going to present YOUR ‘evidence’?

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    I’m pretty certain Sharlett would have recorded the interview, so perhaps a copy could of the recording could be obtained from him. Why not ask him?

    The Bill itself contains plenty of evidence or murderous intent: remember that ‘serial offenders’ are liable to death by hanging. The ‘offence’ could be ay of those cited in the provisions of the Bill (e.g. ‘failure to report on a gay couple’ on more than one occasion could, under the terms of the current draft Bill) lead to death by hanging).

    The parallel with Hitler and the Jews is no exaggeration. The Bahati-Hitler link is entirely justified.

    I await YOUR ‘evidence’ with interest! We’ve been waiting some time now, haven’t we, dear.

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    I’m pretty certain Sharlett would have recorded the interview, so perhaps a copy of the recording could be obtained from him. Why not ask him?

    The Bill itself contains plenty of evidence of murderous intent: remember that ‘serial offenders’ are liable to death by hanging. The ‘offence’ could be any of those cited in the provisions of the Bill (e.g. ‘failure to report on a gay couple’ on more than one occasion could, under the terms of the current draft Bill, lead to death by hanging).

    The parallel with Hitler and the Jews is no exaggeration. The Bahati-Hitler link is entirely justified.

    I await YOUR ‘evidence’ with interest! We’ve been waiting some time now, haven’t we, dear.

  • Maazi NCO

    The parallel with Hitler and the Jews is no exaggeration. The Bahati-Hitler link is entirely justified

    The Ugandan people will not be swayed by false propaganda. The democratically elected parliament of Uganda will work in the interest of our country not in the interest of western nations. It is forgone conclusion that laws against gayism will be strengthened. Resistance is useless and counter-productive.

  • Maazi NCO

    The parallel with Hitler and the Jews is no exaggeration. The Bahati-Hitler link is entirely justified

    And one more thing, please never you insult the dignity of the Jewish people by comparing them to persons who engage in sex crimes.

  • Wendy Leigh

    That, coming from someone who says nothing about the epidemic of ritual child sacrifice, from a country that sacrifices countless children in a morphed religio-colonialism and in the name of their KJV bible. My tax dollars should go to support such a man, in such a nation, who wish to dehumanize and criminalize a minority segment of their population in the manner of Hiltler? I think not.

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    1. Resistance will continue for as long as is necessary.

    2. Where is your ‘evidence’ for the systematic ‘recruitment’ you claim takes place? We’re still waiting for that (Bahati doesn’t have any either, of course – as he let slip to Rachel Maddow!).

    3. The comment was primarily made with regard to Bahati’s philosophy and proposed modus operandi, both of which are similar to Hitler’s; the reference to Jews was essentially incidental. (By the way, Jewish leaders in the U.S. have just signed a ‘declaration of acceptance’ of gay people – so THEY won’t mind my comment. Your feelings on this matter are unimportant.)

    4. To add to Wendy’s point: I have already shown you an article about the abuse of Ugandan women – 68% of those surveyed said their male partner ‘abused’ them in some way.

    5. I know many decent Ugandans who oppose unjust discrimination of the kind you (and, more so, Bahati) seem to espouse.

    6. A little reminder: YOU HAVE STILL SHOWN NO ‘EVIDENCE’ FOR YOUR ‘RECRUITMENT’ CLAIMS. Should we assume that you are unable to do so?

  • Richard Willmer
  • Maazi NCO

    That, coming from someone who says nothing about the epidemic of ritual child sacrifice, from a country that sacrifices countless children in a morphed religio-colonialism and in the name of their KJV bible.

    Please don’t be silly !! Do you know me? How do you know I don’t say anything about the child sacrifice—- which, by the way, is not an epidemic in Uganda in much the same way that serial murder in the USA is not an epidemic. Child sacrifice is homicide in Uganda. People who engage in it are criminals prosecuted by the law.

    My tax dollars should go to support such a man, in such a nation, who wish to dehumanize and criminalize a minority segment of their population in the manner of Hiltler? I think not.

    If it makes you sleep better at night, please instruct gayism-obsessed Obama administration not send your pennies to Uganda. The sovereignty of the Ugandan people is not for sale. Please by all means keep your tax pennies in your bank account. Okay? In Uganda, we reject the idea that gayism is an identity like race or ethnicity. So the idea of its practitioners being an “oppressed minority segment” does even arise in the first place. Lobbing in cheap insults like “Hitler” wont change a thing. Like I said earlier, resistance is futile and counter-productive.

  • Maazi NCO

    I know many decent Ugandans who oppose unjust discrimination of the kind you

    Of course, you do !!!—– GayUganda, Frank Mugisha, “Reverend Canon” Gideon Byamugisha, “Bishop” Ssenyojo, Val Kalende, David Kato, Julie Pepe Oniezema, and several more proxies for the euro-american gay lobby.

    Unfortunately for you, these “decent” (i.e. pro-gay sex) Ugandan friends of yours represent an infinitesimal segment of the Ugandan population. Their views do not jell with that of most Ugandans and so can be regarded as irrelevant in the scheme of things here.

  • Richard Willmer

    And many others, Maazi … many others.

    Why do you say ‘unfortunately for you …’? I don’t live in Uganda.

    How’s your ‘evidence’ for ‘recruitment’ coming along, by the way?

  • Maazi NCO

    As for ‘obsessions’: I think it’s better to be obsessed with human rights than with murder.

    Gayism is not a human right as defined in the 1948 UN Declaration of Human Rights (UNDHR). In fact, article 16 of UNDHR explicitly says that marriage is between man and woman without limitations on grounds of race, creed, ethnicity, religion. Gayism is a sex crime in nearly 80 nations worldwide and even in the remaining 112 where it is not a sex crime, there are several nations that retain legal restrictions such as ban on gay marriage, gay adoption, gay military service and teaching gayism in schools in the name of sex education. There is also widespread rejection of gayism by society in many of those nations where gayism is legal activity. If you lot in the West want to romanticize gayism and place it on a pedestal like ancient Greeks, please do so, but do not impose such madness on the African people.

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    Our discussion is not about ‘gay rights’ (e.g. gay adoption); it is about the right of all people to be treated fairly according to their behaviour.

    Let me ask you this. Is it ‘fair’ to throw two gay people who are (‘minding their own business’) in stable relationship into prison, while not punishing a straight man who ‘sleeps around’?

    You have cited the BRIC nations on a number of occasions. None of these now (since last year) criminalises private homosexual acts pursuant to informed consent. (I would say ‘BRICS’, actually – i.e. including ‘S’ for South Africa.) What might Uganda learn from their success?

    And WHERE is your ‘evidence’ for this ‘recruitment’ you claim is taking place? (You don’t have any, do you?)

  • Richard Willmer

    And, Maazi, have you any evidence that ‘gayism’ (whatever that may be) is ‘taught’ in British schools??!!

    We’re looking for TWO sets of ‘evidence’ now!

  • Richard Willmer

    P.S. I work in the British education system, by the way.

  • Maazi NCO

    Let me ask you this. Is it ‘fair’ to throw two gay people who are (‘minding their own business’) in stable relationship into prison, while not punishing a straight man who ‘sleeps around’?

    Is it fair to arrest a consenting man and several consenting women who are in polygamous marriage and charge them with the “crime of bigamy” as they do in UK, United States and most western nations?

    You have cited the BRIC nations on a number of occasions. None of these now (since last year) criminalises private homosexual acts pursuant to informed consent. (I would say ‘BRICS’, actually – i.e. including ‘S’ for South Africa.) What might Uganda learn from their success?

    You are very funny guy. So India is successful because New Delhi Court decriminalize gayism last year? (Even then, the Indian supreme court is yet to rule on the finality of the so-called decriminalization). China does not even allow human rights as defined in the 1948 UNDHR and you claim that it is successful for barely bringing itself to tolerate sex deviants since 1997? So according to you, Russia is successful for decriminalizing gayism under western pressure in 1993 and then using its Police to club gay sex practitioners whenever they take to the streets to celebrate their anti-social behaviour. Uganda should learn from that? Richard you are clearly a confused man. Please take a break to relax your brain. Okay?

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    Let’s leave the ‘BRICS’ theme aside for a moment (you introduced it, by the way).

    As for people who have ‘multiple sexual partners’: they are not arrested in the UK. Only those who contract ‘marriages’ with more than one person are, usually because deception has been involved (e.g. the wife of a man has been deceived by that man when he ‘married’ a second so-called wife).

    I suggest that you relax your brain, Maazi: you seem really quite excited at the moment (again).

    How’s that ‘evidence’ coming along, by the way?

  • Richard Willmer

    And, Maazi dear

    When you call me a ‘very funny guy’, what you are really saying is that I have the temerity to disagree with you. So I shall continue to be ‘very funny’, by the looks of things …

    By the way, Odinga now denies saying that ordered the arrest of gays. He released a statement to this effect on 02/12/2010; I might just have aware of this before the publication of that statement. So it seems that SOMEONE takes me seriously …

  • Maazi NCO

    By the way, Odinga now denies saying that ordered the arrest of gays. He released a statement to this effect on 02/12/2010; I might just have aware of this before the publication of that statement. So it seems that SOMEONE takes me seriously …

    Okay, then go to Kenya with a fellow man and exhibit gay behaviour and see whether the sodomy laws will not be applied by the police. Fair enough?

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi NCO’

    Well, you don’t have to take me seriously, honey.

    I have no desire to be taken seriously by someone who is unable to provide evidence for his claims of ‘recruitment’, and who hides behind a militaristic pseudonym that sounds rather like ‘Nazi NCO’.

  • Richard Willmer

    *giggle*

  • Richard Willmer

    Apologies, Maazi – I did hit a little ‘below the belt’ just then!

    If you stop trying to insult me (I don’t FEEL insulted, by the way), we can resume a sensible debate on these issues.

    But why not tell us who you really are? Noone is going to try to cause you any real harm – and if anyone were to say they might try to do so, I would make clear my opposition to this notion … as a matter of principle.

  • Wendy Leigh
  • Wendy Leigh

    Of course, you do !!!—– GayUganda, Frank Mugisha, “Reverend Canon” Gideon Byamugisha, “Bishop” Ssenyojo, Val Kalende, David Kato, Julie Pepe Oniezema, and several more proxies for the euro-american gay lobby.

    Please explain Maazi. Proxies for the euro-gay lobby? What is your accusation here? Are you suggesting that USA or UK gays pay these people to be gay too? What would be the benefit? Do you think that perhaps they are fighting for their own rights? To live and love whom they love? And to further an equitable future for all Ugandans? Do you also imagine they might also feel under attack for politicians and churches that actually do take money to further the christo-facist agenda of radical evangelicals and an Opus Dei pope?

  • Richard Willmer

    Another point, relating to the ‘polygamy’ issue that Maazi raised earlier:

    In practice, some men in Britain have more than one ‘wife’ (and those ‘wives’ have borne those men’s children). Such men are not ‘hounded’ or persecuted or criminalised. I know some such men personally.

    Obviously, they are legally obliged to support financially their children, although – where necessary – the state assists with this.

  • Maazi NCO

    Of course, you do !!!—– GayUganda, Frank Mugisha, “Reverend Canon” Gideon Byamugisha, “Bishop” Ssenyojo, Val Kalende, David Kato, Julie Pepe Oniezema, and several more proxies for the euro-american gay lobby.

    Please explain Maazi. Proxies for the euro-gay lobby? What is your accusation here? Are you suggesting that USA or UK gays pay these people to be gay too? What would be the benefit? Do you think that perhaps they are fighting for their own rights? To live and love whom they love? And to further an equitable future for all Ugandans? Do you also imagine they might also feel under attack for politicians and churches that actually do take money to further the christo-facist agenda of radical evangelicals and an Opus Dei pope?

    You can scream all you like and even accuse me of being Silas the Opus Dei Albino Monk from Da Vinci Code, but no Westerner will veto the Sovereign Parliament of Uganda. In much the same way that the state of Texas brushes aside international outrage to carry out their capital punishments so will the Ugandan people defy western opinions to pass a watered down version of the Bahati Bill that excludes the extreme provisions of the original version. Nothing you say will move us an inch.

  • Maazi NCO

    No problem with ritual child sacrifice?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8444047.stm

    http://abcnews.go.com/2020/child-sacrifice-uganda-witch-doctors-spread-belief/story?id=9930029&tqkw=&tqshow=2020

    http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/society/society/37-society/620-ugandas-epidemic-of-child-sacrifice

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/05/world/main6364466.shtml

    http://pulitzercenter.org/slideshows/child-sacrifice-uganda-0

    Wendy,

    I never said sacrifice homicides wasn’t happening in Uganda. I was only saying that it is a crime under ugandan laws and that people who do it are criminals to be prosecuted by the state. Likewise gayism is an offence in Uganda.

    ‘Maazi NCO’

    Well, you don’t have to take me seriously, honey.

    I have no desire to be taken seriously by someone who is unable to provide evidence for his claims of ‘recruitment’, and who hides behind a militaristic pseudonym that sounds rather like ‘Nazi NCO’.

    *giggle*

    Richard Willmer,

    How old are you?—five years old?. We will continue our exchange of ideas when you are ready to switch your mental age back to that of an adult.

  • Richard Willmer

    We’ll see, hun.

  • Wendy Leigh

    Indeed. That evidence Maazi? Here in America, we’ve been waiting for 40 years to see such “evidence” and it has NEVER materialized, much like yours and Bahati’s will never materialize either. Hitler saw the Jews as “a problem” too. You see, no country that is evolved into the 21st century will allow you, or Kenya, to cleanse away an entire segment of the population. Your god might have a problem with that too.

  • Maazi NCO

    Indeed. That evidence Maazi? Here in America, we’ve been waiting for 40 years to see such “evidence” and it has NEVER materialized, much like yours and Bahati’s will never materialize either. Hitler saw the Jews as “a problem” too. You see, no country that is evolved into the 21st century will allow you, or Kenya, to cleanse away an entire segment of the population. Your god might have a problem with that too.

    Your false comparisons and convoluted propaganda are useless and will not change a thing !

  • Maazi NCO

    We’ll see, hun.

    Oh yes -:)

  • Wendy Leigh

    Speaking of convoluted propaganda, that “evidence?”

  • Wendy Leigh

    You should consider the fact that you have been sold an old, debunked and recycled bill of goods Maazi, by Scott Lively and his Exodus buddies. By men who are trying to sell you a fraudulent product, so they can make money. Lots of money, by dehumanizing and criminalizing your people. A product that has dried up over here and in the UK, called “reparative therapy.” It is a FRAUD, phony and a con. They do this by creating a boo-gayman and tell you a bunch of crazy false things so that you buy into and buy their 40 y/o product. Would you like to be played by these calvinest colonialists, again? Best advice I can give you. Wake up.

  • Richard Willmer

    Wendy

    In defence of Maazi, I would point out that he does not advocate the ‘elimination’ of the whole group of people (unless he has changed his mind on this point – which I doubt).

    Of course, there is much that Maazi says that many of us find profoundly distasteful. For example:-

    1. He grossly misrepresents his gay compatriots;

    2. He either cannot or will not provide evidence to back up such gross misrepresentation;

    3. He advocates repressive measures to deal with social situations;

    4. He often resorts to insults when he finds it hard to justify his views objectively;

    5. He often seems to base his views on ‘cultural relativism’ instead of ‘moral philosophy’.

    I communicate with Ugandans on a daily basis; I have wtinessed many move from a position supporting repressive measures to one opposing them (after all, once repression gets going, it has a tendency to ‘spread’ – Nazi Germany taught us all that); I detect a tendency to ‘support, or sympathise with, the underdog’ (something that is also ‘hard-wired’ into the psyche of many Britons); I note a sense of realism about what is really important for Uganda (better roads, more democracy, better sharing of resources for the common good). I know that many Ugandans do not ‘approve’ of ‘homosexuality’; at the same time, they do not approve of (even ‘watered-down’) Bahatiism either.

    Some of the Ugandans with whom I have enjoyed respectful and honest dialogue are in positions of some ‘influence’. I will not, of course, name them here.

    What will happen? I think it is currently unclear. However, I do not think that the Bahati Bill, or anything remotely like it, will eventually be passed into law. A ‘government contact’ of mine agrees with me.

  • Richard Willmer

    Also in defence of ‘Maazi NCO’: he has the intelligence to be profoundly embarrassed by David Bahati!

  • Wendy Leigh

    “You can scream all you like and even accuse me of being Silas the Opus Dei Albino Monk from Da Vinci Code, but no Westerner will veto the Sovereign Parliament of Uganda. In much the same way that the state of Texas brushes aside international outrage to carry out their capital punishments so will the Ugandan people defy western opinions to pass a watered down version of the Bahati Bill that excludes the extreme provisions of the original version. Nothing you say will move us an inch.”

    His words, not mine. I know what Scott Lively & Co. and Lou Engles mission is. Engle want “the blood of Martyrs for Jesus” and Lively wants to sell his head-shrinking business. I rest my case

  • Richard Willmer

    Yes – he wants his ‘watery repression’, certainly.

    (The Presidential Committee threw out all but one of the Clauses of the Bill back in the spring – and seem to have lost interest since.)

    ‘Maazi’ (not his real name, by the way) and I did discuss his precise position at great length a couple of weeks back. It may be that, as he faces more challenges to his ideas, he presents himself in a more extreme manner. (A quick ‘google search’ reveals that ‘Maazi’ has taken an intense interest in homosexuality ever since the Bill broke cover.)

    Of course, the ‘Sovereign Parliament of Ugandan’ can do as it pleases; whether those with the real power in Uganda will accept its conclusions is another matter.

  • Wendy Leigh

    Let’s just say that the watchmen are being watched.

  • Maazi NCO

    I note a sense of realism about what is really important for Uganda (better roads, more democracy, better sharing of resources for the common good).

    There has always been that “realism”. But unlike you, most Ugandans believe that these issues can be tackled simultaneously with emerging problems such as gayism. The idea that they believe some particular problems must be tackled while emerging problems are left to fester is a nonsensical fallacy from your dreams.

    I know that many Ugandans do not ‘approve’ of ‘homosexuality’; at the same time, they do not approve of (even ‘watered-down’) Bahatiism either.

    Nice conjecture, but more on the side of wishful thinking. You should visit Uganda and speak to more people, okay?

    Of course, the ‘Sovereign Parliament of Ugandan’ can do as it pleases; whether those with the real power in Uganda will accept its conclusions is another matter.

    Now, I know you haven’t the slightest clue of how government works in this nation. I think your problem has to do with stereotypes one often encounters while reading the western press. One thing about stereotypes is NOT that they are completely false, but it is just that they never give the complete picture and they often fail to take nuance into account. I will not elaborate any further.

    What will happen? I think it is currently unclear. However, I do not think that the Bahati Bill, or anything remotely like it, will eventually be passed into law. A ‘government contact’ of mine agrees with me.

    Overall, a good attempt at punditry, especially for a person who barely knows anything about Uganda. Unfortunately, you are wide-off the mark. I doubt your Ugandan “government contact” actually exists and if he does exist then he may be fooling you for monetary gain. Why not we let time tell us whether your predictions or my predictions on the Bahati Bill is correct? :-)

  • Maazi NCO

    Would you like to be played by these calvinest colonialists, again? Best advice I can give you. Wake up.

    Wendy,

    I believe the word you wanted to use was “Calvinist”. And no, I am no Calvinist nor am I an evangelical christian.

    You should consider the fact that you have been sold an old, debunked and recycled bill of goods Maazi, by Scott Lively and his Exodus buddies.

    Scott Lively et al did not sell anything to me. Long before Scott Lively and his gang came here, most Ugandans knew that some Western NGOs were orchestrating gay militancy on Ugandan soil. The militancy has been ongoing since 2005 press conference by the proxies of the Euro-American gay lobby and later on the 2007 scandal of a UN agency boss in Kampala who allowed his organization to secretly distribute pro-gay literature in Ugandan schools.

    Let’s just say that the watchmen are being watched.

    And you are doing the watching from thousands of miles away in the Northern hemisphere? Buahahahahahaha…..

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    Time will indeed tell …

    How’s the ‘evidence’ coming along?

  • Maazi NCO

    The Presidential Committee threw out all but one of the Clauses of the Bill back in the spring – and seem to have lost interest since.

    Oh yes, interesting news to me !!

    ‘Maazi’ (not his real name, by the way)

    You don’t say !

    It may be that, as he faces more challenges to his ideas…

    Perhaps from Westerners. In Uganda, my views are broadly representative and so the issue of being challenged on my opinions is more of your wishful thinking.

    ‘Maazi’ has taken an intense interest in homosexuality ever since the Bill broke cover.

    Not really. I have an intense interest in making sure that foreigners do not exercise veto power over the sovereign Parliament of Uganda.

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    How’s your ‘evidence’?

  • Wendy Leigh

    No actually. My disrespect was intended. Yes, I watch from here, there, and everywhere. You just never know where I will turn up, or when. You really have no power over what foreigners exercise, or do not exercise, but what will you do about your own Uganda Human Rights Commission? In its latest annual report described the bill as illegal, unconstitutional, and a violation of international law, which amounts to a pretty strong statement by a Ugandan government institution in opposition to the legislation. What are your plans to get around that Maazi? And again……. that “evidence” please.

  • Maazi NCO

    No actually. My disrespect was intended. Yes, I watch from here, there, and everywhere. You just never know where I will turn up, or when. You really have no power over what foreigners exercise, or do not exercise, but what will you do about your own Uganda Human Rights Commission? In its latest annual report described the bill as illegal, unconstitutional, and a violation of international law, which amounts to a pretty strong statement by a Ugandan government institution in opposition to the legislation. What are your plans to get around that Maazi? And again……. that “evidence” please.

    Why not wait and see? It wont be fun if you have advance knowledge of everything huh?

  • Maazi NCO

    You really have no power over what foreigners exercise, or do not exercise

    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Very funny way of showing defiance.

    Uganda Human Rights Commission blah, blah, blah

    Please call my attention when the UHRC declares gayism a human right and challenges our laws on sex crimes. On a broader level, please also call my attention when the independently-run African Commission on Human and People’s Rights (ACHPR) declares gayism a human right. Until then, don’t bother to quote anything from UHRC’s bulletins. Even GayUganda with all his propaganda skills will never quote from UHRC.

  • Wendy Leigh

    I think you and Bahati have nothing but hot air. Oh, and a paster with a sex fetish and a “jaded” history of his own. LOL

  • Maazi NCO

    I think you and Bahati have nothing but hot air. Oh, and a paster with a sex fetish and a “jaded” history of his own. LOL

    Touche :D

  • Wendy Leigh

    Oldest trick in the book and rather over-played in African politics wouldn’t you say? While I would enjoy the deconstruction of Ssempa, to be sure. (You knew that right/) Bahati still looks like a kook in the international community and brings an homo- obsessive shame upon Uganda. Maybe something there too eh??? Crimes against humanity. Fitting for Bahatiism.

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    How much do you actually KNOW, and how do you know it? You see, all these claims – with no evidence or sources or articles etc. cited – is not looking at all convincing to many of us.

    As for the UHRC: apparently it wasn’t talking about ‘gayism’ (whatever that means), it was talking about the Bill. It said what it said – go to the bottom of this linked page:

    http://www.uhrc.ug/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=273:highlights-of-the-12th-annual-report-&catid=42:latest-news

    Are you perhaps working on the principle that, if one says something often enough, it will happen? After all, I’ve asked for ‘evidence’ of ‘recruitment’ ‘often enough’ and – guess what – it HASN’T happened!

  • Maazi NCO

    I have read the UHRC bulletin before—-and I do agree with all its statements including those on the Bahati Bill. I said this earlier in the year that if passed in its current form the Bahati Bill will be declared “unconstitutional” by our supreme court for obvious reasons. That is why we are reviewing it, dummy !! :-)

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    And who are ‘we’, sweetie?

    How’s the ‘evidence’ coming along, by the way?

  • Maazi NCO

    Oldest trick in the book and rather over-played in African politics wouldn’t you say? While I would enjoy the deconstruction of Ssempa, to be sure. (You knew that right/) Bahati still looks like a kook in the international community and brings an homo- obsessive shame upon Uganda. Maybe something there too eh??? Crimes against humanity. Fitting for Bahatiism.

    Ouch!! Sounds like someone is really frustrated here. Let us settle it like this—do what you euro-american gay lobbyists have got to do to stop the bill and over here, we will do what we got to do to pass the revised bill along. In a couple of months, we meet again physically or online to compare notes. Fair enough? :D

  • Richard Willmer

    A couple of months? Thank you for the information.

  • Richard Willmer

    Oh – and still no ‘evidence’ of ‘recruitment’, ‘Maazi’?

    (Bahati didn’t have any either, of course.)

  • Wendy Leigh

    Ah, you are talking about the top-secret *wink wink* Anti-”Pornography” Bill LOL. Yes, yes. That will go about as far.

  • Wendy Leigh

    Same language, different title. Brilliant lol. So if you define homosexuals, homosexual literature, safe-sex education materials as “pornography” you think you will out-wit the rest of the international community. Uganda slips further into the abyss.

  • Wendy Leigh

    Thank you for calling it The Bahati Bill though..

  • Richard Willmer

    Wendy

    When ‘Maazi’ refers to a ‘watered-down bill’, he is probably talking about Clause 13 (‘Promotion of Homosexuality’) of the current draft (the other clauses have been declared redundant or undesirable by the Ugandan Government Committee set up in the spring). Even this clause is jurisprudentially problematic, as it could be interpreted very broadly were a decision to be made to launch a full-scale repression against gay Ugandans, their families, friends, allies, landlords, doctors, pastors …

    Parliament might try to push through something bigger than this, of course – and do so between the February 2011 elections and the end of the Eighth Parliament in May 2011. It will be interesting to see what is the composition of the Ninth Parliament, and what effect that might have on the situation.

    As ‘Maazi’ helpfully suggests, late-Feb. to early-May could be a ‘dangerous period’. I have, of course, reiterated this point to my contacts.

  • Wendy Leigh

    Perhaps, or the APB, or both. Hmmm

  • Richard Willmer

    Or neither? It will, after all, be a ‘lame duck’ Parliament that will include many for whom the voters have not voted – especially, perhaps, after recent revelations. It may also be the case that there will be ‘a period of confusion’ after the February elections, though, having as I do many Ugandan friends, I very much hope there will be no violence, of course.

    For ‘Maazi’s’ benefit, I’m reposting the interview with Jeff Sharlet. ‘Maazi’ was asking about him earlier.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908//vp/40597742#40597742

    ‘Maazi’ has often referred to the ‘decadent West’, by the way. Of course, we all know that Uganda is a ‘paragon of sexual purity’, don’t we?! People in glass houses …

  • Maazi NCO

    Ah, you are talking about the top-secret *wink wink* Anti-”Pornography” Bill LOL. Yes, yes. That will go about as far.

    Same language, different title. Brilliant lol. So if you define homosexuals, homosexual literature, safe-sex education materials as “pornography” you think you will out-wit the rest of the international community. Uganda slips further into the abyss.

    Thank you for calling it The Bahati Bill though..

    Quit trying to second guess the Ugandan Parliament. The Bahati Bill shall become law after it is revised. There is nothing to hide and there is no such thing as “international community”. What you call “international community” is actually Western nations who feel that they are the global policemen of the world. Gayism is not an internationally protected human right and the idea that you think that we will pass a bill in secret is foolish to say the least. Uganda is a sovereign state. Go and bully pro-Western nations with tougher sodomy laws such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Malaysia, etc.

  • Maazi NCO

    When ‘Maazi’ refers to a ‘watered-down bill’, he is probably talking about Clause 13 (‘Promotion of Homosexuality’) of the current draft (the other clauses have been declared redundant or undesirable by the Ugandan Government Committee set up in the spring). Even this clause is jurisprudentially problematic, as it could be interpreted very broadly were a decision to be made to launch a full-scale repression against gay Ugandans, their families, friends, allies, landlords, doctors, pastors …

    This is just nonsensical propaganda talking…..

    Parliament might try to push through something bigger than this, of course – and do so between the February 2011 elections and the end of the Eighth Parliament in May 2011. It will be interesting to see what is the composition of the Ninth Parliament, and what effect that might have on the situation.

    This is an issue bigger than any one person in parliament. I doubt the composition of the 9th parliament will make much difference.

    I have, of course, reiterated this point to my contacts.

    Your contacts! Very funny. I forgot that you are a one-man CIA (or is it MI6?) running loads of spies within Uganda. Well, I wish you good luck all the same. James Bond 007

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi

    The countries you mention are not proposing NEW repressive laws, as far as I am aware. And talking of bullying …

  • Wendy Leigh

    I will do as I please Maazi, say what I please, go where I please, investigate what I please, when it pleases me. I’m sure you get that a lot though lol. Homophobia and genocide are certainly not an internationally protected right. Who the hell are you to tell people who they can love? Other than a bully, of course.

  • Wendy Leigh

    The govt of Uganda should make public the APB language if Uganda is not being secretive. Period.

  • Maazi NCO

    When ‘Maazi’ refers to a ‘watered-down bill’, he is probably talking about Clause 13 (‘Promotion of Homosexuality’) of the current draft (the other clauses have been declared redundant or undesirable by the Ugandan Government Committee set up in the spring). Even this clause is jurisprudentially problematic, as it could be interpreted very broadly were a decision to be made to launch a full-scale repression against gay Ugandans, their families, friends, allies, landlords, doctors, pastors …

    This is just nonsensical propaganda talking…..

    Parliament might try to push through something bigger than this, of course – and do so between the February 2011 elections and the end of the Eighth Parliament in May 2011. It will be interesting to see what is the composition of the Ninth Parliament, and what effect that might have on the situation.

    This is an issue bigger than any one person in parliament. I doubt the composition of the 9th parliament will make much difference. I have, of course, reiterated this point to my contacts.

    Your contacts! Very funny. I forgot that you are a one-man CIA (or is it MI6?) running loads of spies within Uganda. Well, I wish you good luck all the same. James Bond 007

    Homophobia and genocide are certainly not an internationally protected right.

    Protection of a people from mass murder (a.k.a.Genocide) is internationally protected. Gayism is not recognized by international law despite unsuccessful attempts by desperate Western nations to impose it via UN resolutions.

    The govt of Uganda should make public the APB language if Uganda is not being secretive. Period.

    The government of Uganda can be accused of a lot of things, but being secretive is simply not one of them. The Ugandan State is not obliged to tell you a foreigner of its advanced plans. You are not a citizen and have no locus standi to interfere on this matter. When our parliament is ready, everything will be conducted in open daylight. So I am not sure what you are on about.

  • Maazi NCO

    Maazi

    The countries you mention are not proposing NEW repressive laws, as far as I am aware. And talking of bullying …

    Thats an interesting excuse for non-intervention in the affairs of middle-eastern nations. So it has nothing to do with the fact that you chaps are powerless to bully them?

  • Maazi NCO

    I am not sure whether this will pass through Warren’s Chinese filters, but if it does, let me respond to the following:

    The govt of Uganda should make public the APB language if Uganda is not being secretive. Period.

    Who are you? You have no locus standi to make any demands on Uganda. The revised Bahati Bill will be passed in open daylight not secrecy. Of course, we expect Western politicians to shake their bodies in fake outrage for the benefit of their domestic voters :-) . Realpolitik means that business will go on as usual the day after it becomes law. All this scaremongering, even the hilarious statement by Rachel Maddow that Bahati will appear before an international crimes tribunal is bunkum since King Abdallah of Saudi Arabia and most of the USA -aligned Oil Sheiks of Gulf Arabia will have to appear before them first because their sodomy laws— that prescribe death penalty/castration as punishment— will make the revised Bahati Bill of Uganda look extremely lenient.

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    You are obviously very excited about this whole matter.

    I agree that we could, and should, do more to expose and oppose human rights abuses in others countries, including our own.

    But consider this for a moment: you want ‘not to be bullied’ (fair enough), yet you wish to demonstrate this by bullying more harshly your own compatriots. Deeply ironic, isn’t it?

    By the way, how’s your ‘evidence’ coming along, dear?

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi dearest

    Enough banter. (The figure of 500,000 – 600,000 is based on the widely-accepted view among sociologists and anthropologists that around 4% of the adult population of the planet is either gay or ‘gayish’.)

    Now a ‘constructive proposal’ for you: why not, instead of the Bahati Bill (with or without ‘added water’), introduce a different piece of legislation with two primary objectives:-

    1. to prohibit the distribution in schools of any material that in any way ‘sexualises’ children (this would obviously have to exclude suitable material, the content of which the government could monitor, that meets clear educational and public health objectives);

    2. to prohibit the recruitment, by trickery or force, of children or vulnerable adults into any kind of sex work ?

    This would address your concerns about so-called ‘recruitment’ (and it is, of course, ‘recruitment’ – for which, may I remind you, you have as yet provided not a shred of ‘evidence’ – that forms the essential basis of your claim that the Bahati Bill is necessary).

  • Wendy Leigh

    Maazi, I think we will go after Uganda first, Saudi Arabia later perhaps. Btw, who are you to say that we are not? Again, who are you to dictate go after, no locus standi, remember? The fact is that we fight child-trafficking all across the globe, which is what you are lumping gays into. That is a heterosexual, typically male problem, not gays. Perhaps a ban on men like yourself will serve Uganda better.

  • Richard Willmer

    Wendy

    I agree – Uganda first. After all, Bahati himself says he wants UG to ‘lead the way’ in the fight against so-called ‘gayism’. The now-taciturn Ssempa has said much the same in the recent past …

    But, you know, many Ugandans are getting really quite fed up of this nonsense; I keep hearing this kind of remark – and from some surprising quarters as well (I can’t be too specific about that, of course). After all, Bahati has thrown the ‘spotlight’ onto UG; many are hoping that it will soon be switched off. I don’t blame them for that – I’d feel the same way if in their position …

    What has UG to gain internationally from all this nonsense? Not a lot! China doesn’t care one way or the other; relations with the West would be severely damaged; only the likes of Mugabe and Ahmadinejad would be impressed – big deal! No – the ‘hard-headed realists’ in Kampala see no real advantage to the Bahati project, I suspect.

  • Richard Willmer

    And as WikiLeaks has told us, Mugabe and M7 can’t stand each other!

  • Maazi NCO

    Maazi, I think we will go after Uganda first, Saudi Arabia later perhaps.

    Perhaps a ban on men like yourself will serve Uganda better.

    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha….. You do have a good sense of humour.

    The figure of 500,000 – 600,000 is based on the widely-accepted view among sociologists and anthropologists that around 4% of the adult population of the planet is either gay or ‘gayish’

    What a joke !!

    …..to prohibit the distribution in schools of any material that in any way ‘sexualises’ children (this would obviously have to exclude suitable material, the content of which the government could monitor, that meets clear educational and public health objectives

    Thanks for the suggestions. I am sure they can be taken under advisement by the team reviewing the Bahati Bill which will still deal with all manners of sex crimes including gayism.

  • Maazi NCO

    What has UG to gain internationally from all this nonsense? Not a lot! China doesn’t care one way or the other; relations with the West

    It will gain domestically from its ability to keep gay militancy under control. It has nothing to do with “international community” which is now a euphemism for nosy western nations. BTW, relations with the West will not be damaged any more than relations between western nations and their allied middle-eastern oil sheiks who retain stronger, proactively enforced anti-gay laws. As an aside, I will tell you a short story about realpolitik at work—-Clinton was in Malaysia recently where former Premier Anwar Ibrahim is being tried for sodomy. A press reporter asked Clinton in Kuala Lumpur her reaction to this and she simply said that the Malaysian authorities assured her that Anwar Ibrahim will receive a fair trial !!! Of course, realpolitik demanded that Clinton put the US interests of aligning Southeast Asia with itself to combat China above any so-called “gay rights”. Crude Oil and our troops in Somalia is Uganda’s trump card. Continue dreaming though of so-called damaged relations…..

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    We’ll see …

    How’s your ‘evidence’ coming along, by the way?

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    The problem with the UG situation is that Bahati and his allies want to make a bad situation worse. That’s what sets the situation in UG apart at the moment, and why the focus is there.

    Don’t forget that ‘the West’ is not only the U.S. (and U.K.), of course.

  • Richard Willmer

    The point is that a ‘partial defeat’ has already been inflicted on the Bahatiites (a year ago, it looked like the Bill would ‘sail through’); a ‘total defeat’ will send a clear message to other countries considering the introduction of repressive and discriminatory laws, saving a lot of injustice and misery in the longer term.

  • Richard Willmer

    Here’s the summary of the UHRC statement relating to the Bill:

    “The Report gives the UHRC’s position on the Anti-Homosexuality Bill by analyzing it and pointing out the salient human rights concerns about the Bill. The general observation made is that the Bill contradicts international human rights standards and should therefore be reviewed. It is noted that if passed in its present form, the Bill it is likely to violate the right to privacy and other freedoms.”

    The reference to ‘privacy’ is interesting. It might suggest that, in the view of the UHRC, private sexual acts pursuant to informed consent are just that: a private matter. Obviously the report was compiled by non-Bahatiite Ugandans. Such Ugandans do exist, maybe in rather larger numbers that our mysterious interlocutor supposes.

  • Richard Willmer

    The ‘chain of events’ over the past few years rather reminds me of what Mahatma Gandhi said:

    “First they ignore you (‘there are no gays in Uganda’ they say),

    then the ridicule you (‘there are some gays, but only a few, and everyone hates them anyway’ they say),

    then they fight you (up pops Bahati & Co.: ‘they are evil and recruit children – hang them!’ they say*),

    then you win.”

    * ‘They’ have no ‘evidence’, of course!

  • Maazi NCO

    Here’s the summary of the UHRC statement relating to the Bill:

    “The Report gives the UHRC’s position on the Anti-Homosexuality Bill by analyzing it and pointing out the salient human rights concerns about the Bill. The general observation made is that the Bill contradicts international human rights standards and should therefore be reviewed. It is noted that if passed in its present form, the Bill it is likely to violate the right to privacy and other freedoms.”

    The reference to ‘privacy’ is interesting. It might suggest that, in the view of the UHRC, private sexual acts pursuant to informed consent are just that: a private matter. Obviously the report was compiled by non-Bahatiite Ugandans. Such Ugandans do exist, maybe in rather larger numbers that our mysterious interlocutor supposes.

    This shows that you do not understand the highly nuanced position of the UHRC. Of course, if what was implied in the report is how you say it is then UHRC would have called for the strike down of existing sodomy laws. So what you have written down above is just your own wishful thinking on the matter. As for other nations passing similar laws, Malawi just passed a law extending punishment for gayism from males only to males and females—this will end a situation where only males are prosecuted for gay sex while females go free.

  • Maazi NCO

    Better call your contact at the UK Foreign Service. :-)

  • Maazi NCO

    The point is that a ‘partial defeat’ has already been inflicted on the Bahatiites (a year ago, it looked like the Bill would ‘sail through’); a ‘total defeat’ will send a clear message to other countries considering the introduction of repressive and discriminatory laws, saving a lot of injustice and misery in the longer term.

    I supported the “partial defeat” because like UHRC said the bill in its current form will probably be struck by the courts on grounds of unconstitutionality. As for other nations passing anti-gay laws, switch your gaze to Malawi. Thanks

  • stephen

    This shows that you do not understand the highly nuanced position of the UHRC

    Thanks, Maazi, for the single funniest sentence I’ve read all weekend.

    Uganda, where children are sacrificed in witchcraft rituals. (I never post links properly here but I’ll try. It’s to the BBC site). Malawi, where witches are hunted down in the street. In Kenya there are witch lynchings. Same in Angola, Congo, Gambia, Tanzania, etc.

    So pardon me if I’m not impressed by any ideas on ‘gayism’ coming from these countries as they are part and parcel of the same hysterical superstitions as the witchcraft panics that are manipulated by politicians for their own gain. The only aspect that I find of interest is how we see the same manipulations going on here in the States for the same reasons. The language is more careful but the intent is often the same.

  • stephen

  • stephen

    Nothing. But if you care to the BBC site and search on Malawi and witchcraft you’ll find sufficient to depress you for the rest of the day.

  • Wendy

    Notice the hypocracy of Maazi and other christian extremists, who is not advocating for the criminalization for heterosexual sodomy, although that will become illegal as well. What straight man would condemn his own right to give or recieve the same sex acts? Ha! Truly, a puppet of Western fundamentalist extremists, or as we call it, a tool.

  • Richard Willmer

    Wendy

    A very important point.

    Penal Code 140 can in fact be interpreted in such a way as to proscribe (so-called) ‘heterosexual sodomy’; replacing it with the Bahati Bill would effectively LEGALISE this activity! Hmmm …

    As for the term ‘sodomy’: well, that’s a whole other story. Its (mis)use by Bahatiites and other assorted loonies is based on a complete misreading of that famous Genesis story.

    Maazi

    How’s your ‘evidence’ of ‘recruitment’ coming along? After all, this was, not long ago, your primary argument for the need for the (watered-down) Bahati Bill.

  • Richard Willmer

    Stephen

    Did you know that a survey of Ugandan women was recently conducted; in this survey 68% of the respondents said that their male partner (had) abused them in some way.

    I’m sure WE’RE much more civilised than that!

  • http://aebrain.blogspot.com Zoe Brain

    Richard – I’m not.

    Maazi’s a liar. He’s been given every opportunity to produce the evidence he swore he had, and has not done so. Now he can admit that no such evidence exists (and still not resile from his fantastic claims if he wants), or he can continue stonewalling about his mendacity.

  • Richard Willmer

    I’m sure you are, Zoe!

    ‘Maazi’ has no ‘evidence’ of any kind of systematic ‘recruitment’ – we all know that.

    Of course, he makes no mention of the widespread abuse of women, about which I see reports in the UG press on a weekly basis. As Wendy has pointed out, the hypocrisy of some of these anti-gay agitators is breath-taking.

    The forthcoming Anti-Pornography Bill needs to be watched, as it could be something of a ‘vehicle’ for ‘frustrated Bahatiites’. In fact, it could effectively be the ‘watered-down’ Bahati Bill that ‘Maazi’ keeps promising us, with other bits added.

  • Maazi NCO

    You lot are just deluding yourselves. I NEVER said anything about child recruitment. What I spoke about was the attempt by gay militants to attract vulnerable young people to their cause on grounds that these youths were allegedly “confused with their sexuality”. I am not sure why you chaps are deliberately being obtuse about my commentary. In 2007, leaflets were distributed secretly by the militants for that purpose and many of these leaflets were left lying about in certain public places. This is a well-known fact within and outside Uganda. I suspect that some of you euro-american gay sex practitioners know about this since you chaps finance the gay militancy here. This is the LAST TIME I will address this particular matter on this blog.

  • Maazi NCO

    The forthcoming Anti-Pornography Bill needs to be watched, as it could be something of a ‘vehicle’ for ‘frustrated Bahatiites’. In fact, it could effectively be the ‘watered-down’ Bahati Bill that ‘Maazi’ keeps promising us, with other bits added.

    You will watch until your eyes strain themselves blind. Whoever gave you the impression that Bahati or his supporters are frustrated? :D

  • Wendy

    Well which is it Maazi? Private or public, secretive or recruiting?

    “leaflets were distributed secretly”

    ” by the militants” if it was secret, how do you know?

    ” for that purpose ” unless you were there, how do you know?

    “many of these leaflets were left lying about in certain public places” You mean like a flyer, to gather, with similar people, like everyone else does when they want to gather with people, like Bahati and Ssempa, for their rallies, or a pornographic fetish sermon? So only straight people can post a flyer or pamphlet in Uganda? But you Maazi, know it was for children, to lure them into homosexuality? Damn, and you call us obtuse. I’m sure you held on to one of these, for “evidence”, right?

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    Thank you for clarifying for us that the systematic ‘recruitment’ of children does not take place.

    Thank you also for making clear to us that what offended you so deeply constituted merely an offer of support and advice.

    Thank you very much.

    Repression leads to psychological confusion (that’s one of its functions): I’m sure there are many people in UG who are indeed very ‘confused’.

  • Maazi NCO

    Repression leads to psychological confusion (that’s one of its functions): I’m sure there are many people in UG who are indeed very ‘confused’.

    The revised Bahati Bill will end any confusion on the part of gay militants and their foreign backers.

    Thank you also for making clear to us that what offended you so deeply constituted merely an offer of support and advice.

    It offends most Ugandans, especially parents and close relatives of the vulnerable youths— that is why a bill proposed by David Bahati is being revised so that a fine piece of legislation will emerge in the end to meet the demand of the Ugandan people.

  • Stephen

    Now I’m confused. Bahati talks specifically about schoolchildren being ‘recruited’. He even talks about $15M being sent to Uganda for the express purpose of ‘recruiting’ children.

    However, Maazi has discovered smiley faces. Hilarity ensues.

  • Jayhuck

    Maazi is an anti-gay militant. You guys should stop engaging him. He’s really not worth the effort :)

  • Wendy Leigh

    On the contrary. However, Maazi supports the lies of man that stand to gain wealth and political standing like the fetish-obsessed pastor Ssempa that shows fetish pornography to members with children present at Otondo Church and elsewhere, and a sex-obsessed politician seeking reelection. In so doing he vilifies an entire class of his countrymen seeking to isolate and torture them into a heterosexual unreality. That makes Maazi a monster like Ssempa and Scott Lively. Maazi cannot see how badly he is being used by westerners no less. Btw Maazi, I have never sent a dollar to Uganda, unless you mean buying coffee. Maybe the homosexuals are supporting them through the Uganda Coffee Company LOL.

  • Jayhuck

    I agree whole-heartedly with you Wendy, but Maazi talks, he doesn’t listen. We’ve all engaged him ad nauseum on this thread. Believe me when I say you will not change his mind, although it is probably worthwhile to point out the problems with his arguments!

  • Richard Willmer

    Indeed, ‘Maazi’ and Bahati are clearly ‘confused’ themselves when it comes to the ‘justification’ for repression.

    Jayhuck

    Feel free to ask Warren to give you my Email address so we can discuss certain matters.

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    I’ve sent appreciable (thought not huge) sums of money to UG: I have a(n unofficial) godchild there, and support an orphanage from time to time. I’ve also supported a business venture owned and run by Ugandans, and helped to raise money for a little Ugandan girl who needed a kidney transplant.

    But I don’t buy Ugandan coffee (or other exports) any more. Once the Bill is history, I’ll start to enjoy a cup of the same once again.

    What do you do – apart from spitting venom at gay people?

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    I’ve another question for you.

    Back in December 2009, you said this: ‘Gays who keep their heads down and do their stuff privately will be left alone’.

    http://ncronline.org/news/hope-houston-extremes-uganda

    Does this mean that you accept the idea of the decriminalisation of homosexual acts pursuant to informed consent? If so, why not make that clear to us now?

    (If you do accept decriminalisation of private acts, then you should accept the repeal of Penal Code 140.)

  • Maazi NCO

    Back in December 2009, you said this: ‘Gays who keep their heads down and do their stuff privately will be left alone’.

    http://ncronline.org/news/hope-houston-extremes-uganda

    Does this mean that you accept the idea of the decriminalisation of homosexual acts pursuant to informed consent? If so, why not make that clear to us now?

    (If you do accept decriminalisation of private acts, then you should accept the repeal of Penal Code 140.)

    This is December 2010 not December 2009. A lot has happened since then. Militancy has grown widely and Uganda has faced blackmail by foreign hedonistic nations from the Northern hemisphere. Without further elaboration, I will simply state that anyone who engages in or promotes a sex crime— as defined by our criminal code— should face the full force of the law. The law needs to be updated and strengthened to meet new challenges posed by foreign gay lobbyists. This is the first and last time I will address the matter you raised from National Catholic Reporter.

  • Maazi NCO

    Maazi is an anti-gay militant. You guys should stop engaging him. He’s really not worth the effort

    I would have agreed with you had it not being for the fact that you enjoy reading my posts while pretending not to like them :D

  • Wendy Leigh

    Calling consensual intimacy between LGBT’s “Sex crimes” may fly in the streets of a third world nation, but not in the broader world. Further, intentionally smearing an entire “class” of people (which has already been recognized in a Ugandan courts) should and will be pursued as Crimes Against Humanity. Perhaps that is the profoundly cowardice by talking smack with a fake name and not standing behind your own words, like a man. LOL

  • Wendy Leigh

    Intentionally blurring the lines for an uninformed population between homosexuality and the very real problem of trafficking by people who indeed know the difference is also equally pathetic.

  • Maazi NCO

    Calling consensual intimacy between LGBT’s “Sex crimes” may fly in the streets of a third world nation, but not in the broader world. Further, intentionally smearing an entire “class” of people (which has already been recognized in a Ugandan courts) should and will be pursued as Crimes Against Humanity. Perhaps that is the profoundly cowardice by talking smack with a fake name and not standing behind your own words, like a man. LOL

    Propaganda, propaganda, propaganda. What broader world do you mean? Western nations? Even outside the 76 nations that explicitly outlaw gayism, there are more than 100 nations where gayism is not a criminal offence, but is nevertheless legally restricted by constitutional bans on gay marriage (e.g. several nations including Bulgaria, Poland,Russia and most USA states), ban on promotion of gayism (e.g. several countries including EU members like Lithuania and Latvia) , ban on gay military service (e.g. several nations including Cyprus, USA, etc) and ban on gay adoption. It goes without saying that in most nations without anti-gay laws such as Vietnam, Bahamas, The Philippines, Jordan, Iraq, South Africa, Cambodia and many other examples, gayism is overwhelmingly rejected by society. I am afraid, but gayism is not protected by international law and therefore is not a “crime against humanity” contrary to what you claim.

  • Maazi NCO

    Calling consensual intimacy between LGBT’s “Sex crimes

    These words “consensual intimacy” is a meaningless western-constructed term. Funnily enough, it does not apply to consenting opposite sex adults in western nations who wish to consummate their relationship in the form of a polygamous marriage. Talk of rank hypocrisy !!

  • Maazi NCO

    Further, intentionally smearing an entire “class” of people (which has already been recognized in a Ugandan courts

    A futher clarification—–the Ugandan court did not recognize anything called “gay rights”. If this is your interpretation of the verdict handed down to the owners of the upstart tabloid Rolling Stone, then you must be dafter than I even thought. If your wishful thinking were true then our Sexual Offences Act of 2000 would have been challenged by the militant gay sex proxies in the courts long ago. But they seem intelligent enough to realize that they will lose even before the court battle commences since Ugandan judges are largely distinguished and NEVER legislate from the bench.

  • Wendy Leigh

    Genocide and the advocation of is a crime against humanity. If you were so sure you were correct, as I am, then you wouldn’t be hiding behind a fictitious name like a petulant child, and bring forth ANY such evidence you have falsely claimed that you have. Uganda courts HAVE decidedly declared homosexuals as a ‘class’, and as such will be protected, and if hunted which is what your bill does, your nation will indeed be responsible for crimes like Hitler. We wont be making the same mistakes.

  • Wendy Leigh

    Consensual intimacy is my statement Maazi LOL. And, bans on marriage and gay service have been ruled unconstitutional here in the states. Lithuania and Latvia should not be your mark of success. That model will not keep a seat at the table of nations for Uganda. You seem intent on reverting and regressing.

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    Looks like you’ve become considerably more ‘extremist’ in the last year.

    You are being totally inconsistent, of course. Given that you seem to say that you supported decriminalisation in 2009, you should have WELCOMED western pressure to drop the Bahati Bill!

    This ‘hedonistic west’ thing you keep going on about is getting silly; you know as well as I do that there’s LOADS of ‘hanky-panky’ going on in UG … it’s just that people PRETEND that there isn’t!

  • Richard Willmer

    *SOME people pretend that there isn’t* (others are more honest about the situation)

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    A ‘technical’ point: it not illegal in the U.S. and the U.K. for people to have multiple partners for consensual sex. What the law does not provide for is multiple ‘marriage contracts’.

  • Richard Willmer

    Just seen this:

    http://www.monitor.co.ug/OpEd/Commentary/-/689364/1071372/-/13s7wjrz/-/index.html

    This bit is most germane:

    “Ugandans have failed the children through commission and omission. Very often we hear people say the abused child is young and will forget. The evidence says otherwise. We still negotiate with individuals who use all sorts of justifications to violate young children, with some even premised on religion! Legislators are happy fighting over ghosts of homosexuality when over 90 per cent of sexual crimes against children in Uganda are being perpetrated by heterosexual men, and some women.”

    UG press reports also seem to indicate that the vast (and I mean VAST) majority of abuse victims are girls.

  • Richard Willmer

    So it seems that, of UG’s approx. 700,000 gays, very few abuse children.

  • Maazi NCO

    Just seen this:

    http://www.monitor.co.ug/OpEd/Commentary/-/689364/1071372/-/13s7wjrz/-/index.html

    This bit is most germane:

    “Ugandans have failed the children through commission and omission. Very often we hear people say the abused child is young and will forget. The evidence says otherwise. We still negotiate with individuals who use all sorts of justifications to violate young children….

    So what if a gay sex practitioner writes an article in Daily Monitor to divert attention from herself /himself ?? All manners of sex crimes—-rapes, gayism, incest, prostitution—–can be tackled simultaneously by legislation followed by robust law enforcement. The idea that gayism should be left alone because there are other crimes to sort out is clever, but not clever enough to prevent what will eventually happen in Parliament.

    So it seems that, of UG’s approx. 700,000 gays, very few abuse children.

    Why stop there? Why not claim that Uganda has 1.5 billion gays while you are in profession of myth-making?

    it not illegal in the U.S. and the U.K. for people to have multiple partners for consensual sex. What the law does not provide for is multiple ‘marriage contracts’.

    I spoke of polygamous marriage, didn’t I? With regards to US and UK, I have lived in both Western nations and I know for a fact that bigamy is a serious criminal offence which is vigorously prosecuted in their courts.

    ‘Maazi’

    Looks like you’ve become considerably more ‘extremist’ in the last year.

    You are being totally inconsistent, of course. Given that you seem to say that you supported decriminalisation in 2009, you should have WELCOMED western pressure to drop the Bahati Bill!

    Since we started sparring on this blog, I noticed that you find it difficult to separate reality from your wishful thinking and fantasies. Your latest fantasy about me welcoming western pressure to drop the entire Bahati Bill will be baffling to any sane person monitoring this blog. I recommend that you do something about your problem, okay?

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’, my sweet

    A research fellow at Makerere hints at a figure rather higher that 700,000 (and he even supports aspects of the Bahati Bill!!!). I’m a very realistic, reasonable chap!

    The 700,000 I cite is a little under 5% of UG’s adult population.

    Since the Bahati Bill dramatically broadens the criminalisation of private homosexual acts pursuant to informed consent, anyone accepting the idea of decriminalisation should oppose it. That’s plain logic, isn’t it?

    What evidence have you that the author of the Monitor article is a ‘gay practitioner’? That she happens to disagree with your anti-gay stance? Is that it?

    And what do you with your life do when not hurling abuse at gays? I’d be most interested to know!

  • Maazi NCO

    Genocide and the advocation of is a crime against humanity. If you were so sure you were correct, as I am, then you wouldn’t be hiding behind a fictitious name like a petulant child.

    You are not making any sense at all. Please try again !

    Uganda courts HAVE decidedly declared homosexuals as a ‘class’, and as such will be protected, and if hunted which is what your bill does, your nation will indeed be responsible for crimes like Hitler. We wont be making the same mistakes.

    What a joke. Do you think that chanting the word Hitler ! Hitler !! Hitler !!! will intimidate most people in the world into accepting aberrant sexual activity as normal behaviour. So far 76 nations criminalize deviant sexuality and so far several of the remaining 116 nations that do not expressly criminalize gayism, insist on retaining strong legal restrictions on that sexual behaviour, there would be no international protection for it. All this talk about “genocide” and “crimes against humanity” is just nonsense and you know it as much as King Abdallah of Saudi Arabia, Rachel Maddow, Richard Willmer, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, David Cameron, Ban Ki Moon and yours truly, among several others.

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    I think you’ve quoted someone else’s words there (though I essentially agree with the points being made in those texts).

    Let’s come back to what you said a year ago: ‘Gays who keep their heads down and do their stuff in private will be left alone’. That is tantamount to saying that you accept decriminalisation of private sexual acts pursuant to informed consent.

    At the same time, David Bahati was saying something along the lines of: ‘Gays who keep their heads down and do their stuff in private will be hunted down and murdered by the state.’

    You must surely agree with me that you and Bahati were diametrically opposed on this point?

  • Maazi NCO

    A research fellow at Makerere hints at a figure rather higher that 700,000 (and he even supports aspects of the Bahati Bill!!!). I’m a very realistic, reasonable chap! The 700,000 I cite is a little under 5% of UG’s adult population.

    If this “research fellow” really exists then he/she must have used black magic to work out those figures !!

    Since the Bahati Bill dramatically broadens the criminalisation of private homosexual acts pursuant to informed consent, anyone accepting the idea of decriminalisation should oppose it. That’s plain logic, isn’t it?

    No it isn’t plain logic because I never supported decriminalization in the first place. Once, I supported status-quo ante, but now I know better. My position is that the revised version of the Bahati Bill should become law since status-quo is not adequate to tackle emerging gay militancy choreographed by Western hedonists.

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    Do you have alternative research findings to offer re. the figures?

    Why did you not oppose Bahati a year ago (I understand that you have become more extreme in your views since – many of us have noticed that you find it ‘difficult to manage your emotions’ when women and gay men dare to ‘answer you back’)?

    The stuff about ‘emerging gay militancy’ is just propaganda, dear. All gay Ugandans are doing is defending themselves – and I am delighted to assist them in so doing.

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    Why don’t you, in a calm and reasoned manner, tell us what provisions you think a ‘watered-down Bahati Bill’ should contain? We can then evaluate your position logically.

  • Wendy Leigh

    Maazi, coward hiding behind fake names, huffs and puffs and still has no evidence, no nothing. The child MIGHT, and I say that loosely, MIGHT be interested at how the rest of the world is viewing them lumbering backwards into the dark ages. Yes “maazi” the world is watching, viewing Bahatiists as Hilter. Well done lol. The non-logic of ‘oh well others are doing it’ is childish, again.

  • Jayhuck

    Maazi,

    I would have agreed with you had it not being for the fact that you enjoy reading my posts while pretending not to like them :D

    This is the only post of yours that I’ve read in 4 months – LOL :) But if it makes you feel better, by all means, believe what you must. When I comment about you its not because I’m reading your posts, its because I’m reading my friends posts to your comments. I just happened to catch this particular post when I was reading Wendy’s various and well-articulated responses to your dribble ;) :).

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    The research fellow I cited does exist (I’ve already shown you his article, in fact).

    The fact that you make things up (including your own name) does not mean that the rest of us do.

  • Maazi NCO

    ‘Maazi’

    Why don’t you, in a calm and reasoned manner, tell us what provisions you think a ‘watered-down Bahati Bill’ should contain? We can then evaluate your position logically.

    Thanks for the offer, but I will pass. Of course, you are more than welcome to read the contents of the bill and analyze them any way you like after it has been passed by parliament and officially gazetted as law.

    Maazi, coward hiding behind fake names, huffs and puffs and still has no evidence, no nothing. The child MIGHT, and I say that loosely, MIGHT be interested at how the rest of the world is viewing them lumbering backwards into the dark ages.

    Oh yes, I can sense your frustration even though I am thousands of miles away from you. You can rant and rave, but you will NEVER overrule the will of the Ugandan people on this subject matter.

  • Wendy Leigh

    Ha. There is almost nothing more hysterical than watching African men blathering “sodomyyyyyyyy” knowing they are attempting to outlaw their own ability to receive oral sex (sorry Warren, had to) while blaming it on the gays, assuming of course, your bill were to pass. LOL

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    Why do you keep shying away from the opportunity to set out your position in a calm, well-reasoned, manner. Is it because your ‘position’ is simply not reasonable, I wonder? Think about it.

    Let’s try again. Why do you now support measures to intrude on people’s privacy? You implied that you were against such measures a year ago. Why the change? If such intrusions were wrong then, surely they are wrong now (it’s a matter of principle, isn’t it).

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’

    Or was it in fact the case that you were deliberately misrepresenting the Bahati Bill in an attempt to justify its totalitarian nature?

    Which is it, ‘Maazi’? Have you changed you mind (and, if so, on what grounds of principle)? Or were you in fact lying when you implied that those did their thing in private would not be harmed?

    (I think your integrity may be at stake here on this point – and don’t give us rhetoric about ‘the Ugandan people’ … it’s YOUR views, as someone who would claim to be a ‘responsible individual’, that interest us.)

  • Wendy Leigh

    Give it up Richard who seeks rationality. I dare say given Maazis dream bill, that the prisons will be filled and over flowing with confused heterosexuals who are stunned and shocked only to discover that their very own favorite sex acts are, in fact defined as “sodomyyyyy” thanks in part to Mr Maazi! Let maazi have his little fantasy, and let the rest of us have ours. Bahatiist will go down in history, but not in a good way LOL. A must watch indeed.

  • Richard Willmer

    Well, Wendy, I’m genuinely interested in resolving ‘Maazi’s’ apparent contradiction.

    Also, I enjoy rational debate.


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